View Full Version : Footy Classified
Talked about Tanking...... Whilst talking about West Coast and Melbourne Basically said they should rest players and Tank for the Rest of the season so they can secure top picks..... and that there is NO reason for them to win...
Make no mistake we missed a HUGE opportunity on the weekend. This will be the last time I ever mention Tanking and our club again, but I want to make it clear that never again will we have the opportunity that could have been presented to us if we lost the rest of the season.
We would have secured Pick 1 and 2... 18 and pick 1 PSD in the LAST DRAFT to be unaffected by the new Clubs.
The affect that new clubs will be diabolical to clubs trying to re-build in the next 2-10 years. The Three players that we could have secured in the top 20 of this years draft would along with Lids, Foley, Tambling, Thurs, Cotchin...etc Lead us through this turbulent time.
Mark my words there will be atleast 1 less Victorian team going into the furture once these clubs are established. The success that Brisbane enjoyed once merging with Fitzroy will once again see the AFL trying to Merge teams.
Clubs that struggle through this period WILL be under HUGE pressure to relocate and merge and I would be surprised if they offer huge deals to attract 2 Clubs from Melbourne to Merge.
Are you confident that we will be-able to survive in this period??? Have you the confidence in our club that they will be able to justify not relocating to the AFL when we are the poorest performed team in the last 30 odd years???
Dont get me wrong I am very confident that we have a great young list, but so will alot of other clubs.
I just think we may have missed an oppurtunity to strengthen our list alot more with some very good picks which would help to secure the club through this un-easy time...
For me a little more pain for a huge amount of Gain would have been on order. But thats the past now .....:(
Geelong, West Coast, Sydney & Port Adelaide never bottomed out, they all rebuilt from around mid table with perhaps one bad year. Why don't we follow their lead rather than sides like StKilda, Hawthorn & Carlton who haven't won a thing?
Absolute rubbish!
We need to establish a winning culture, this is most important becuase when teams like Collingwood, Stkilda, Sydney and in a more minor way Brisbane and Adelaide start to lose alot of their older players this is our oppurtunity to get our current youg breed of players to help us be serious contenders in the next few years. The teams who are breeding young players as we speak will be the teams who will win grandfinals in the next few years when obtaining star young players will be scarce. Another year of losing will do the players no good and our already low moral will just get worst and we again will be stuck through another long turbulent run. With Carlton and Hawthorn we have the best youngsters in the afl and are looking good to be a very strong and succesful team and this wont happen without a winning culture and for the players to wear their heart on their sleaves.
Absolute rubbish!
We need to establish a winning culture, this is most important becuase when teams like Collingwood, Stkilda, Sydney and in a more minor way Brisbane and Adelaide start to lose alot of their older players this is our oppurtunity to get our current youg breed of players to help us be serious contenders in the next few years. The teams who are breeding young players as we speak will be the teams who will win grandfinals in the next few years when obtaining star young players will be scarce. Another year of losing will do the players no good and our already low moral will just get worst and we again will be stuck through another long turbulent run. With Carlton and Hawthorn we have the best youngsters in the afl and are looking good to be a very strong and succesful team and this wont happen without a winning culture and for the players to wear their heart on their sleaves.
Winning Culture????? 2005 the HAwks 2005 2006 2007 the Blues???? they seem to be unaffected by this loosing culture or the lack of a winning culture this year.
Just being picky but you mentioned the sides that haven't bottomed out,Collingwood, Stkilda, Sydney and in a more minor way Brisbane and Adelaide (I would assume that these have a " winning culture" because they haven't bottomed out), being the side that are going to fall down the ladder but the sides that have been bottoming out like our selves, Carlton and the Hawks ae going to rise above them???? I'm confused.... how does the winning culture work exactly?
Geelong, West Coast, Sydney & Port Adelaide never bottomed out, they all rebuilt from around mid table with perhaps one bad year. Why don't we follow their lead rather than sides like StKilda, Hawthorn & Carlton who haven't won a thing?
West Coast Bottomed out and got JUDD... which in turn got them 3 top 20 picks.. and they are bottoming out again.
West Coast is a VERY smart club and have seen the benefit of this last unaffected Draft. They will be a POWER house as early as next year because they WILL tank this year and pick up 2 picks in the first round, whilst still putting games in the young players.
KERR wanted to play on the weekend but the club stpped him??? isn't that trying to bottom out?
What a shit thread. You've clearly jumped on the 'negative' bandwagon.
itsintheblood
17 Jun 2008, 01:14
dont think i could have handled another 10 losses in a row. It would have murdered our teams confidence and morale, smashed our membership and attendances, dismissed the coach and probably the board, and also convinced little kids not to follow richmond. Not worth an extra pick I guess even though I've been keen for us to bottom right out this year.
Winning Culture????? 2005 the HAwks 2005 2006 2007 the Blues???? they seem to be unaffected by this loosing culture or the lack of a winning culture this year.
Just being picky but you mentioned the sides that haven't bottomed out, (I would assume that these have a " winning culture" because they haven't bottomed out), being the side that are going to fall down the ladder but the sides that have been bottoming out like our selves, Carlton and the Hawks ae going to rise above them???? I'm confused.... how does the winning culture work exactly?
1. Teams just cant bottom out and win the premiership the next year, i.e Hawthorn made bottom 4 in 2004, won more games in 2005 then followed that in 2006, then made the finals in 07 and are looking like very strong premiership contenders this year.
2. Sorry i should have made myself more clear, i wasn't talking about Collingwood,Stkilda and Sydney etc to do with a winning culture it was saying those teams would struggle in the next few years becuase of thier lack of premium youngsters.
What a shit thread. You've clearly jumped on the 'negative' bandwagon.
I'm very much on the positive side of poster when it comes to the direction the club has taken with our list Management... but that doesn't mean I don't want the club to BENEFIT from the rules that are in place... just like Carlton, Hawthorn, the Saints, Collingwood (2005), WEST COAST 2001 ... and us have in the past. Remember if we had of beaten the Saints last season we would have lost Cotchin.
Ok loosing 10 games in a row is a bit extreme I honestly believe we missed the surest and best chance of securing a premiership team by winning on the weekend.
I do feel dirty posting these threads... but come draft day when we have finished ninth again and have pick 9th pick instead of pick 1 and 2 I will be very jealous and disappointed.... especially when those picks were ours for the picking.
dont think i could have handled another 10 losses in a row. It would have murdered our teams confidence and morale, smashed our membership and attendances, dismissed the coach and probably the board, and also convinced little kids not to follow richmond. Not worth an extra pick I guess even though I've been keen for us to bottom right out this year.
Yes.... great post.:thumbsu::thumbsu:
But what will really pee me off in the second half of the season and it has already started on footy classified tonight, is the media getting behind the teams that are on the bottom and justifying why they shouldn't win.
Tanking has become more and more part of the game... and it's now looked as good good list management and clubs being smart. Carlton is enjoying record Membership on the back of the darkest period in it's history. WHY because of the future that the picks that they have got is going to give them.
Not only is this the last year to tank before the new clubs, but I can see it being the last year that a system that is in place like this one, that encourages teams to loose being around. The AFL knows that it is unhealthy for the competition and will change it once the new clubs are set up.
any how...... I will standby my opinion that we should have really looked at the bottoming out this year, but I will always respect other opinions that winning is more important for our development .... the fact is that in our case maybe loosing was.... for just for 1 more year.
1. Teams just cant bottom out and win the premiership the next year, i.e Hawthorn made bottom 4 in 2004, won more games in 2005 then followed that in 2006, then made the finals in 07 and are looking like very strong premiership contenders this year.
2. Sorry i should have made myself more clear, i wasn't talking about Collingwood,Stkilda and Sydney etc to do with a winning culture it was saying those teams would struggle in the next few years becuase of thier lack of premium youngsters.
How do you get premium youngsters??? and a lot of them???
Hawthorn finished 15th in 2004 and tanked big time in 2005 finishing 14th and getting another PP.
kainokaino
17 Jun 2008, 02:01
I am so pissed off by all this tanking talk ...
Okay so we get a couple of good young players (no guarantees on that)
We win the wooden spoon again
we lose members
we lose sponsors
we lose moneys
players lose confidence (expecially our young players)
young guns start thinking about leaving the club
and one thing that would be the worse then all them would be what it would be doing to RICHO, this man bleeds yellow and black he deserves so much more then what he has got to show for hes career so far, and for us to tank the rest of the year would break the big fellas heart ...
____ TANKING ... WERE NOT A WEAK CLUB LIKE CARLTON AND WE HAVE SHOWED THAT THIS YEAR AND LAST YEAR.
I am so pissed off by all this tanking talk ...
Okay so we get a couple of good young players (no guarantees on that)
We win the wooden spoon again
we lose members
we lose sponsors
we lose moneys
players lose confidence (expecially our young players)
young guns start thinking about leaving the club
and one thing that would be the worse then all them would be what it would be doing to RICHO, this man bleeds yellow and black he deserves so much more then what he has got to show for hes career so far, and for us to tank the rest of the year would break the big fellas heart ...
F*** TANKING ... WERE NOT A WEAK CLUB LIKE CARLTON AND WE HAVE SHOWED THAT THIS YEAR AND LAST YEAR.
All good points, but we did finish below Carlton last year..
What a shit thread. You've clearly jumped on the 'negative' bandwagon.
and you remain on the "unchanged" bandwagon
kainokaino
17 Jun 2008, 03:13
I am happy carlton tanked though ...
Cotchin >> Kruezer
Robert Walls
17 Jun 2008, 03:46
On the Couch, Shits on Footy Classified
there should be a system brought in were the teem that finishes 9th will get the pick 1 so that it will still encourage winning, losing will meen u miss out the finals just. It will also rotate the clubs that make the 8 because with the pick a club had one year they could make the 8 the year later and could slowly move up to be a power house.
NO TANKING. PROBLEM SOLVED
CQTiger
17 Jun 2008, 11:23
I thought if Melbourne won on Sunday we were burning punt road to the ground. You cant deliberately start losing at this stage of the season as previous posts have said there are sponsors and memberships to consider oh and one more thing ...pride. I think we have had our share of draft picks it is time to use them.
I thought if Melbourne won on Sunday we were burning punt road to the ground. You cant deliberately start losing at this stage of the season as previous posts have said there are sponsors and memberships to consider oh and one more thing ...pride. I think we have had our share of draft picks it is time to use them.
Exactly right mate, this club really need to start kicking some but and have some huge wins and show we are not messing around any more!
CoggaRules
17 Jun 2008, 11:36
Geelong, West Coast, Sydney & Port Adelaide never bottomed out, they all rebuilt from around mid table with perhaps one bad year. Why don't we follow their lead rather than sides like StKilda, Hawthorn & Carlton who haven't won a thing?
yeah but they didnt ____ up like we did when we hung around mid table....time will tell...but like nut suggests...the golden opportunity to secure the future of this club has been missed. Once again the opportunity presented itself and once again the tigers fluffed it. Now all we can do is hope...which is about what we have been doing for the last 25 years...hoping.
You dudes dont really understand what 5 years of the dud, following the years under the other duds did to this club do you? Not only were we picking up mediocre to dud draft picks, we picked up dud recycled players as well...this has set the club back 20 years....i.e. not any different to carlton's penalty with the draft....they were gaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawn for all money and now they have murphy, gibbs & Kruezer with a Judd to steer them, and 4 year later they are flying....we are doing what? yep...hoping. ;)
I have been thinking about this over the past few days.
There has to come a time where the current group of young players who will be in their prime 23-27 age group in a few years, need to stand up and say 'Enough' and do something about this themselves.
I'm not against tanking to secure the club's future. But we will not get a PP this year. That is fact.
So we move on. And the current group of kids like Deledio, Foley, Cotchin etc need to stand up and start doing something about this predicament themselves.
So in other words, while I am not against tanking, the simple fact is we have missed that opportunity so therefore we have no choice but to go forward from here.
Sometimes you need to say 'Enough' and move forward with what you've got, not go backwards with what you want in the hope of then moving forwards.
a winless 2nd half of this season, in my opinion, would have started to affect the unaffacted. In other words, the kids who have come into the club unaffacted by our shyteness, would have all of a sudden found themselves well and truly embroiled in our loser's mentality.
So...we push forward. We don't let Deledio and Foley and Cotchin (the basis of what will be a very good midfield) fall into the trap of playing and going about their business as losers like many have before them. Send them the message that the shit stops now. We win as many games as we can from here on in. The kids feel good about themselves, about their futures as AFL senior footballers and they start to go about creating their own culture and their own dynasty at this club.
CoggaRules
17 Jun 2008, 12:10
I have been thinking about this over the past few days.
There has to come a time where the current group of young players who will be in their prime 23-27 age group in a few years, need to stand up and say 'Enough' and do something about this themselves.
I'm not against tanking to secure the club's future. But we will not get a PP this year. That is fact.
So we move on. And the current group of kids like Deledio, Foley, Cotchin etc need to stand up and start doing something about this predicament themselves.
So in other words, while I am not against tanking, the simple fact is we have missed that opportunity so therefore we have no choice but to go forward from here.
Sometimes you need to say 'Enough' and move forward with what you've got, not go backwards with what you want in the hope of then moving forwards.
a winless 2nd half of this season, in my opinion, would have started to affect the unaffacted. In other words, the kids who have come into the club unaffacted by our shyteness, would have all of a sudden found themselves well and truly embroiled in our loser's mentality.
So...we push forward. We don't let Deledio and Foley and Cotchin (the basis of what will be a very good midfield) fall into the trap of playing and going about their business as losers like many have before them. Send them the message that the shit stops now. We win as many games as we can from here on in. The kids feel good about themselves, about their futures as AFL senior footballers and they start to go about creating their own culture and their own dynasty at this club.
yeah copy that dude....but in the end...and if anyone suggests otherwise they are pure BS artists....we are going to hope and pray that we have in our midst KPPs that light it up. Because if we havent, then we will be in what position? yep...we will have to offload talent to get them, or to get a high draft pick. We havent got the depth to do that, the brainst trust in my opinion have completely stuffed it up. IT was there for the taking, 2 young KPPs of immense talent...how could you possibly say nup, we are ok, when you look at a Kruezer and you then look at a patto? as for the unaffected, beg to differ. The precocious youngsters nowadays know why the team is shit...and they definetely know that it isnt because of them. Better hope they dont pull the pin on us dude....then we are hot favs to become the West Sydney Tigers...;)
yeah copy that dude....but in the end...and if anyone suggests otherwise they are pure BS artists....we are going to hope and pray that we have in our midst KPPs that light it up. Because if we havent, then we will be in what position? yep...we will have to offload talent to get them, or to get a high draft pick. We havent got the depth to do that, the brainst trust in my opinion have completely stuffed it up. IT was there for the taking, 2 young KPPs of immense talent...how could you possibly say nup, we are ok, when you look at a Kruezer and you then look at a patto? as for the unaffected, beg to differ. The precocious youngsters nowadays know why the team is shit...and they definetely know that it isnt because of them. Better hope they dont pull the pin on us dude....then we are hot favs to become the West Sydney Tigers...;)
Yes I realise that. We badly need a ruckman and a CHF.
But it's done and dusted now. We won't be getting a PP this year. No point hoping for something you can't have.
We'll still have a top 10 pick (most likely 6 or 7) and another pick in the low 20s. We will just have to get by with what we've got. The biggest litmus test for our club comes in November this year when we use those two picks.
And Cogga, how early is too early to start tanking? It's only halfway through the year. We still play melbourne again, we play West Coast, we play Essendon again. Pretty hard to lose 15 in a row when other teams around you are trying to do the same thing.
...then we are hot favs to become the West Sydney Tigers...;)
and thats what I'm worried about
CoggaRules
17 Jun 2008, 12:51
Yes I realise that. We badly need a ruckman and a CHF.
But it's done and dusted now. We won't be getting a PP this year. No point hoping for something you can't have.
We'll still have a top 10 pick (most likely 6 or 7) and another pick in the low 20s. We will just have to get by with what we've got. The biggest litmus test for our club comes in November this year when we use those two picks.
And Cogga, how early is too early to start tanking? It's only halfway through the year. We still play melbourne again, we play West Coast, we play Essendon again. Pretty hard to lose 15 in a row when other teams around you are trying to do the same thing.
dude, all they had to do was throw caution to the wind and give the youngsters their head. What concerns me is that they opted for the tried, trying and failed formula that has now got us in nowhere land.
I for one would not have batted an eyelid had they gone hell for leather and blooded youngster after youngster at the expense of our senior group. No one would have bagged us for blooding youngsters. If they produced the goods, so be it, if they didnt, so be it. But in the end we would have either known that we were on the cusp, or we would have had the picks...either way we were in front. They wasted 3 games to find out what blind freddy has known for the last 5 years FFS.
Who knows, this Rance kid might be one out of the box and they know it...but until we know it, then wee can only be sceptical. ;)
dude, all they had to do was throw caution to the wind and give the youngsters their head. What concerns me is that they opted for the tried, trying and failed formula that has now got us in nowhere land.
I for one would not have batted an eyelid had they gone hell for leather and blooded youngster after youngster at the expense of our senior group. No one would have bagged us for blooding youngsters. If they produced the goods, so be it, if they didnt, so be it. But in the end we would have either known that we were on the cusp, or we would have had the picks...either way we were in front. They wasted 3 games to find out what blind freddy has known for the last 5 years FFS.
Who knows, this Rance kid might be one out of the box and they know it...but until we know it, then wee can only be sceptical. ;)
Can't disagree with any of that.
Moreaux
17 Jun 2008, 14:19
after seeing him play i will go on the record saying Rance is one out of the box.
watching him control the defensive half when he picked up 30 possessions for Coburg, his talking on the field and in the huddle at quarter , 3 quarter time shows he's also got a great brain for defence as well, he and JR were silmilar that day they were both running and controlling their areas future club leader if we can keep him in victoria.
True Thylacine
17 Jun 2008, 14:49
dude, all they had to do was throw caution to the wind and give the youngsters their head. What concerns me is that they opted for the tried, trying and failed formula that has now got us in nowhere land.
I for one would not have batted an eyelid had they gone hell for leather and blooded youngster after youngster at the expense of our senior group. No one would have bagged us for blooding youngsters. If they produced the goods, so be it, if they didnt, so be it. But in the end we would have either known that we were on the cusp, or we would have had the picks...either way we were in front. They wasted 3 games to find out what blind freddy has known for the last 5 years FFS.
Who knows, this Rance kid might be one out of the box and they know it...but until we know it, then wee can only be sceptical. ;)
I kind of agree too. However there is a chance that you will burn quite a few in the process. I'm unsure if Hawthorn's acclaimed "play the kids" was good luck or good management. We have seen a few good ones emerge but we have seen quite a few disappear too, the likes of Musten, Dowler, Thorp and Dawson all havent made the grade yet. Can't speak for teh others but I saw a lot of Mitch Thorp before he went to Hawthorn and the kid could play, now its Mitch who? Is it a great strategy or were they just blessed with lots of high picks? I dunno...
after seeing him play i will go on the record saying Rance is one out of the box.
watching him control the defensive half when he picked up 30 possessions for Coburg, his talking on the field and in the huddle at quarter , 3 quarter time shows he's also got a great brain for defence as well, he and JR were silmilar that day they were both running and controlling their areas future club leader if we can keep him in victoria.And we didn't need a priority pick to get him ! ;)
CoggaRules
17 Jun 2008, 15:43
And we didn't need a priority pick to get him ! ;)
We didnt need priority picks to get Fior
a & Pettifer either...but we did need number 1 to get Lids and Number 2 to get Cotchin....can you see the difference? naaaa, keep sleeping.
You see people that look but dont see, tend to think we didnt really want to finish on the bottom last year...i.e. we didnt tank. That is why when we were in matches more often than not, we were in them because the youngsters in Lids, Polo etc, were getting the ball and like clockwork when the job needed to be undone, in would step Tivendale, Petifer etc, to make sure that we got what we desperately needed. You could see it every time, TW would shuffle the side when we were mixing it and putting the tried and failed combos in place of those that were doing the job. Whenever the tigers showed top passages of play, the ball was being transferred from youngster to youngster and ending on Richos chest. In steps Tivendale etc, and the ball ended up sailing over the goal umpires head the other way. ;)
tony_montana
17 Jun 2008, 16:33
and when richo, simmo, brown retire or start producing less onfield and you all see rich tearing it up for west coast once again everyone will be saying why o why didnt we lose the rest of the season, especially when in the period we will lose these champs, we wont be able to replace them bc the drafts will be off limits due to the new sides
we let slip an opportunity that wont come around again, but we've made our bed so move on.
I just hope that our list is better than its shown otherwise its going to be a long next 4 years
CoggaRules
17 Jun 2008, 16:40
and when richo, simmo, brown retire or start producing less onfield and you all see rich tearing it up for west coast once again everyone will be saying why o why didnt we lose the rest of the season, especially when in the period we will lose these champs, we wont be able to replace them bc the drafts will be off limits due to the new sides
we let slip an opportunity that wont come around again, but we've made our bed so move on.
I just hope that our list is better than its shown otherwise its going to be a long next 4 years
we slip with Flounder.
we let Plugger slip.
We let Pav slip.
we let Lewis slip.
We let Buddy slip.
we let Fev slip.
we forever have let things slip and forever saying why oh why did we and that ole favourite, ____ing hindisight......just add the next one to the list dude.....but this one might be the last nail in the coffin....we get this wrong we are ____ed...there aint any ____ing hinsight if we do;)
I just hope that our list is better than its shown otherwise its going to be a long next 4 years
...and with a 4 million dollar debt we really need to improve because if we dont we will along with Melb, North and the Doggies be under pressure to merge with one of the start up clubs.
The doggies seem to be safe because of the link with the growing western suburbs, Melbourne's History and the fact it's name is MeLbourne might save them too, which leaves North and ourselves under pressure.
Peter SasseGum
17 Jun 2008, 17:20
...and with a 4 million dollar debt we really need to improve because if we dont we will along with Melb, North and the Doggies be under pressure to merge with one of the start up clubs.
The doggies seem to be safe because of the link with the growing western suburbs, Melbourne's History and the fact it's name is MeLbourne might save them too, which leaves North and ourselves under pressure.
No pressure on the Tigers.
We have the supporters, history and backing behind us to be around for a while yet.
Combine that with the exciting up and coming side TW and the crew have built, and you have the ingredients of a long term success that will attract many more supporters and sponsors for years to come
CoggaRules
17 Jun 2008, 17:31
No pressure on the Tigers.
We have the supporters, history and backing behind us to be around for a while yet.
Combine that with the exciting up and coming side TW and the crew have built, and you have the ingredients of a long term success that will attract many more supporters and sponsors for years to come
yes until we havent got the supporters and history becomes ancient history.
The roys had the supporters and they had history, now they have the Brisbane lions...;)
Mario Speedwagon
17 Jun 2008, 17:32
You people who think tanking is a magic wand make me laugh...look at Carlton? What about 'em? Oooh they;re back in town , oooh Parrot was right... 8th halfway through the season , big ____in' deal...they were in a unique position last year to get the best player of this decade so far and needed the trade value....how often does that happen?
Who says we'll only get crap with our picks...gotta new guy in charge of recruiting this year, Miller supposedly won't be sticking his oar in ..let's see how we go....stop jerkin' off over schoolboy carnivals...the draft is fool's gold more often then not. It's the ability of your coaching staff & football department to turn coal into diamonds ,through on-field & off-field tactics , motivational skills ,the right training and development programs, that is the key to success. These are the areas where we've always failed the most disasterously... not recruiting...that's just a casualty of all the other crap... and that should be our main concern and in most urgent need of address.
CoggaRules
17 Jun 2008, 17:53
You people who think tanking is a magic wand make me laugh...look at Carlton? What about 'em? Oooh they;re back in town , oooh Parrot was right... 8th halfway through the season , big ____in' deal...they were in a unique position last year to get the best player of this decade so far and needed the trade value....how often does that happen?
Who says we'll only get crap with our picks...gotta new guy in charge of recruiting this year, Miller supposedly won't be sticking his oar in ..let's see how we go....stop jerkin' off over schoolboy carnivals...the draft is fool's gold more often then not. It's the ability of your coaching staff & football department to turn coal into diamonds ,through on-field & off-field tactics , motivational skills ,the right training and development programs, that is the key to success. These are the areas where we've always failed the most disasterously... not recruiting...that's just a casualty of all the other crap... and that should be our main concern and in most urgent need of address.
you stupid fool....this stupid mental mentality of some dudes here. How about if you dont start with coal and you start with a diamond fool?
Get with the ____ing program.....which other ____ing professional unit, had their newly hired coach who is on 500 large + a year, sweeping possum shit from the club rooms and giving the place a new coat of paint?
FFS you just dont get it do you? Here we have fools saying we should be in the BIG 4, the 3 of them have got state of the art training facilities, millions pouring in and we had our coach sweeping possum shit...and you are expecting things to go from shit to diamonds do you in how long?;)
Mario Speedwagon
17 Jun 2008, 18:27
Like a kick into our forward 50 , once again the point sails clear over your thick head , "fool". You have no idea , "dude". Go have a shit and clear your mind.
CoggaRules
17 Jun 2008, 18:30
Like a kick into our forward 50 , once again the point sails clear over your thick head , "fool". You have no idea , "dude". Go have a shit and clear your mind.
ok dip, give us your point.
Hold on...i am saying that the smartest people get ahead in the rough and tumble of big business, i.e you see an advantage to accelerate moving forward, you take it. The dumb ones, "try" to prove a point, which might be proved or might not be proved, i.e we did it our way...but at the end of the day, its the quick or the dead....in the end...in the modern game, you are going to move up and then move down. Those who are smart move down as fast as they can, when they know the deal, WC eagles anyone, because hovering in mediocrity gets you shit.
Right now there are a bunch of dudes at the helm, paying the bills with what the club forks out for them. What would you do stupid, if you wanted that money coming in year after year? Oh yeah...we are developing, we are teaching them this, we are teaching them that....and yep, the money is always there come pay day.
Now what the ____ are you saying? let me geuss...you have faith? LMAO....sheeeeeeshe...i will have faith when they produce the goods, until then, they are open to all critisism. ;)
You people who think tanking is a magic wand make me laugh...look at Carlton? What about 'em? Oooh they;re back in town , oooh Parrot was right... 8th halfway through the season , big ____in' deal...they were in a unique position last year to get the best player of this decade so far and needed the trade value....how often does that happen?
Who says we'll only get crap with our picks...gotta new guy in charge of recruiting this year, Miller supposedly won't be sticking his oar in ..let's see how we go....stop jerkin' off over schoolboy carnivals...the draft is fool's gold more often then not. It's the ability of your coaching staff & football department to turn coal into diamonds ,through on-field & off-field tactics , motivational skills ,the right training and development programs, that is the key to success. These are the areas where we've always failed the most disasterously... not recruiting...that's just a casualty of all the other crap... and that should be our main concern and in most urgent need of address.
Tanking is not a magic wand.... but lets look at the last top 2 picks from the last 10 years.... it's not a science when you have those picks.
NQTIGER
17 Jun 2008, 19:26
I thought if Melbourne won on Sunday we were burning punt road to the ground. You cant deliberately start losing at this stage of the season as previous posts have said there are sponsors and memberships to consider oh and one more thing ...pride. I think we have had our share of draft picks it is time to use them.
I had my tin of petrol ready:):):)
NQTIGER
17 Jun 2008, 19:30
and thats what I'm worried about
We could play double headers with west tigers, and really draw a crowd:thumbsu:
West Coast Bottomed out and got JUDD... which in turn got them 3 top 20 picks.. and they are bottoming out again.
West Coast had one year after a massively injury affected season where they finished 14th. That is NOT bottoming out, tanking for multiple years in succession (wooden spoon, priority picks, etc) is bottoming out.
We didnt need priority picks to get Fior
a & Pettifer either...but we did need number 1 to get Lids and Number 2 to get Cotchin....can you see the difference? naaaa, keep sleeping.
Deledio & Cotchin would have been at the club regardless of priority picks. Richard Tambling is our only priority pick selection so far as well as Jordan McMahon. I know we swapped our 2nd round selection for McMahon and Rance was the priority pick, but we wouldn't have made the trade for McMahon if we didn't still have Pick 18, so we would have had Rance either way.
Coast in bid for 20 of top 24
Jake Niall | June 18, 2008
THE Gold Coast consortium has requested that it be given 20 of the first 24 picks in the draft the year before it enters the competition.
At a meeting with AFL and club officials last Friday, leading members of the consortium proposed that the new club be given picks 1-5 and 10-24 in the 2010 national draft, with the bottom four teams receiving picks 6,7, 8 and 9 in the normal reverse order.
If the AFL adopted the consortium's proposal, the bottom team would have pick 6, the 15th team pick 7, the 14th team pick 8 and the 13th team pick 9.
The team that finished 12th on the ladder would fare terribly — losing 20 places in draft order, given that it would not have a draft choice until pick 25, unless it managed to trade for an earlier pick.
The proposed concessions, which were viewed as an ambit claim, were more favourable to the Gold Coast than those proposed in a recent AFL discussion paper of picks 1-5, 14, 15, 24 and 41, plus access to the best 17-year-olds in 2009, and exclusive rights to the cream of the Northern Territory and Queensland.
But the Gold Coast consortium also suggested that it should be compulsory to trade 10 of those 20 early draft picks for players from other clubs — and it argues that this is a better system that forcing clubs to give up a player each.
In effect, the Gold Coast would end up with half of the top 20 picks, but with some strong mature players obtained in return for the other 10 picks.
The consortium's bid is expected to meet strong opposition from existing clubs, some of which have expressed concern about the impact of the concessions on the teams that finish low on the ladder in the relevant years.
Former Brisbane Lions chairman Graeme Downie, Southport Sharks chairman Alan McKenzie and AFL Queensland chief executive Richard Griffiths represented the consortium at the meeting with the AFL's subcommittee of club and league officials.
Downie last night said the Gold Coast consortium wanted an "extension" of the draft picks that the AFL had proposed (picks 1-5, 14, 15, 24 and 41), but with a compulsory obligation to trade many of them (at least 10 in this instance) back to clubs that lost players.
"We thought it was a far better proposal than forcing clubs to give up players.
"This way it's done on a voluntary basis, the market determines what … trade choice we give up for a player etcetera."
Downie said the GC17 consortium — headed by himself, McKenzie and leading local lawyer John Witheriff, who is slated to be chairman of the new club — had originally considered requesting something along the the lines of the top eight teams being compelled to give up a player.
"The discussion was very positive, trying to find a way to see whether the proposal had merits, see how it could be worked. So that the bottom clubs, for instance, that have struggled for a year or two before could be, you know, looked after to ensure that it's a fair system of trading."
Downie said it was ultimately for the AFL to decide what was appropriate.
West Coast had one year after a massively injury affected season where they finished 14th. That is NOT bottoming out, tanking for multiple years in succession (wooden spoon, priority picks, etc) is bottoming out.
Deledio & Cotchin would have been at the club regardless of priority picks. Richard Tambling is our only priority pick selection so far as well as Jordan McMahon. I know we swapped our 2nd round selection for McMahon and Rance was the priority pick, but we wouldn't have made the trade for McMahon if we didn't still have Pick 18, so we would have had Rance either way.
WC finished 13th in 2000 and 14th in 2001. I remember playing them at the Dome and they wee all over us but managed to loose whilst sitting on 5 wins. I remember clearly telling everyone that the Eagles were no chance because they wouldn't want to give up a PP.
Deledio was the PP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_AFL_Draft
Pick 1 dn 2 from the last 5 drafts
2003 Cooney and andrew walker
2004 Deledio and Roughead
2005 Murphy and Thomas
2006 Gibbs and Gumbleton
2007 Kruezer and Cotchin
All those players would add something to our side.. except walker.lol Gumbleton is injured
CaptainBlood
18 Jun 2008, 17:21
There is one major problem with this whole debate.
Even if you accept all the arguments for tanking (and I have serious problems with those, but others have covered that pretty well), to get the coveted picks 1 and 2 we would not only have to lose to Essendon, West Coast, Freo and Melbourne (plus Carlton and Port Adelaide) to avoid any extra points - we would have to out-lose to those first four sides, since they will all be tanking as well in the hope of landing Natanui (sorry, but we aren't the only ones who've noticed him).
If Melbourne and Essendon start to send players off for season-ending surgery and blood even more kids, even the Coburg seconds would struggle not to post a winning score against them.
So what would probably happen is we would "succeed" at losing most games, accidentally win one or two and end up with just one pick in the first round AND a losing culture. Brilliant!
There is one major problem with this whole debate.
Even if you accept all the arguments for tanking (and I have serious problems with those, but others have covered that pretty well), to get the coveted picks 1 and 2 we would not only have to lose to Essendon, West Coast, Freo and Melbourne (plus Carlton and Port Adelaide) to avoid any extra points - we would have to out-lose to those first four sides, since they will all be tanking as well in the hope of landing Natanui (sorry, but we aren't the only ones who've noticed him).
If Melbourne and Essendon start to send players off for season-ending surgery and blood even more kids, even the Coburg seconds would struggle not to post a winning score against them.
So what would probably happen is we would "succeed" at losing most games, accidentally win one or two and end up with just one pick in the first round AND a losing culture. Brilliant!
We needed to loose against Melb... so this is a non issue now.... just a missed opportunity.
hognogger
18 Jun 2008, 17:52
There is one major problem with this whole debate.
Even if you accept all the arguments for tanking (and I have serious problems with those, but others have covered that pretty well), to get the coveted picks 1 and 2 we would not only have to lose to Essendon, West Coast, Freo and Melbourne (plus Carlton and Port Adelaide) to avoid any extra points - we would have to out-lose to those first four sides, since they will all be tanking as well in the hope of landing Natanui (sorry, but we aren't the only ones who've noticed him).
If Melbourne and Essendon start to send players off for season-ending surgery and blood even more kids, even the Coburg seconds would struggle not to post a winning score against them.
So what would probably happen is we would "succeed" at losing most games, accidentally win one or two and end up with just one pick in the first round AND a losing culture. Brilliant!
Great post... spot on.
mellowyellow
18 Jun 2008, 18:12
I had my tin of petrol ready:):):)
I take it you re-mortgaged the house for it? ;)
Deledio was the PP. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2004_AFL_Draft
I know Deledio was selected with a priority pick, but if we finished last and didn't get the priority pick, we still would have picked Deledio. It's Tambling we wouldn't have got as that was the actual bonus selection. Same as West Coast would always have picked Judd and just missed on Sampi.
Make no mistake we missed a HUGE opportunity on the weekend. This will be the last time I ever mention Tanking and our club again, but I want to make it clear that never again will we have the opportunity that could have been presented to us if we lost the rest of the season.
We would have secured Pick 1 and 2... 18 and pick 1 PSD in the LAST DRAFT to be unaffected by the new Clubs.
(this is carp nut ...
With three and a half wins on the board and the club defineately signalling that finals are on the radar pre season .. how the f..k do you think we can manufacture 11 losses ??? .....LMAO .
I know thats an oxy-moron because if anyone can manufacture 11 losses its us but really ... lovely romantic notion you have but if we are ever going to be any good its time to start performing with what we have got and getting rid of this p1ss poor attitude that high end draft picks are the one and only antidote for us attaining success .
Our problem is changing our shit ridden culture ... thats where our troubles begin and end
Bojangles17
18 Jun 2008, 23:20
this is carp nut ...
With three and a half wins on the board and the club defineately signalling that finals are on the radar pre season .. how the f..k do you think we can manufacture 11 losses ??? .....LMAO .
I know thats an oxy-moron because if anyone can manufacture 11 losses its us but really ... lovely romantic notion you have but if we are ever going to be any good its time to start performing with what we have got and getting rid of this p1ss poor attitude that high end draft picks are the one and only antidote for us attaining success .
Our problem is changing our shit ridden culture ... thats where our troubles begin and end
thats pretty well it Idy, cant see how losing 11 games changes our destiny for the better
thats pretty well it Idy, cant see how losing 11 games changes our destiny for the better
we could ahve drawn another one:thumbsu::D
Mario Speedwagon
19 Jun 2008, 03:19
if we are ever going to be any good its time to start performing with what we have got and getting rid of this p1ss poor attitude that high end draft picks are the one and only antidote for us attaining success .
Our problem is changing our shit ridden culture ... thats where our troubles begin and end
:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu:
Exact____in'ly. Try getting that through the thick skulls of some of the nupties like Flogga_Drools though. ____in' tank, schmank....draft, schmaft...:thumbsd:
CoggaRules
19 Jun 2008, 10:29
thats pretty well it Idy, cant see how losing 11 games changes our destiny for the better
how about you look at it another way dude. What would you suggest changes our destiny for the better, if losing 11 games doesnt? Winning 11? yes, not 3 out of 11, not 4 out of 11, but at least 9...but you have to win them and you need what? the ____ing cattle. How do you get the cattle in the modern era? You look at your shortfalls of the past, "recruiting", you look at how you got Lids and Cotchin, you look at how you got others and you go with what you know gets you the required cattle.
I mean how ____ing obvious can it be, take Lids and Cotchin out of this team and we would be not only shit, but we would have nothing, like zit to look forward to. ;)
Rancid_Beasties
19 Jun 2008, 11:09
how about you look at it another way dude. What would you suggest changes our destiny for the better, if losing 11 games doesnt? Winning 11? yes, not 3 out of 11, not 4 out of 11, but at least 9...but you have to win them and you need what? the ____ing cattle. How do you get the cattle in the modern era? You look at your shortfalls of the past, "recruiting", you look at how you got Lids and Cotchin, you look at how you got others and you go with what you know gets you the required cattle.
I mean how ____ing obvious can it be, take Lids and Cotchin out of this team and we would be not only shit, but we would have nothing, like zit to look forward to. ;)
This is rubbish. Cotchin has played a handful of games and hasnt changed the result in any of them. He really doesnt add much to the team at this stage...but be sure that he soon will, with a full pre-season.
When it comes down to it most of our backbone type players are rookies/later picks. So much to look forward to in the rookies:
Thursfield
Moore
Foley
King
Plus later, non first round picks like:
Rance
Connors
Collins
Edwards
Putt
White
Compare that to our disappointing first rounders:
Meyer
Schulz
JON
Pattison (or was he early 2nd)
And earlier: pettifer, fiora etc.
We are proof that first round picks aren't a golden ticket by any stretch! Winning culture > a few first round picks
CoggaRules
19 Jun 2008, 12:04
This is rubbish. Cotchin has played a handful of games and hasnt changed the result in any of them. He really doesnt add much to the team at this stage...but be sure that he soon will, with a full pre-season.
When it comes down to it most of our backbone type players are rookies/later picks. So much to look forward to in the rookies:
Thursfield
Moore
Foley
King
Plus later, non first round picks like:
Rance
Connors
Collins
Edwards
Putt
White
Compare that to our disappointing first rounders:
Meyer
Schulz
JON
Pattison (or was he early 2nd)
And earlier: pettifer, fiora etc.
We are proof that first round picks aren't a golden ticket by any stretch! Winning culture > a few first round picks
who the hell suggested Cotchin changed the result dude? All that was suggested is that in the handful of games, he has showed us he has more talent in his fingernail than others who have had 5-6 years to show us.
When you look at Lids & Cotchin, and then you look at the dissapointments that you suggest, me thinks its absolute proof that Number 1 and Number 2 picks are our golden ticket by the length of the flemington straight.
You cant have a winning culture when you are not winning....take a look at the scoreboard...its suggests the opposite to a winning culture. Its all good to suggest winning cultures, but when we have won how many in a season and a half?, how can you even use that as your basis of any substantial argument? FFS. Like they say in the classics.....SCOREBOARD!!!!;)