View Full Version : Westhoff on the edge
Ford Fairlane
18 Jun 2008, 08:53
To drop or not to drop, that is the question.
Also interesting to note that Nathan Krakouer could return to add to our newfound crash and bash attitude. ;)
Port Adelaide may drop Justin Westhoff
AAP | June 17, 2008 02:33pm
PORT Adelaide are considering demoting Justin Westhoff to the SANFL to help the young forward regain some of the confidence he has plainly lost.
The Power's struggles to replicate their eye-catching form of last year can be seen in microcosm through Westhoff, who came from nowhere in mid-2007 to establish himself as one of the more exciting forward options to emerge at the Power.
His spindly frame did not prevent Westhoff from earning respect across the AFL for his poise, touch and considerable football smarts, and it was thought that with another pre-season under his belt the youngster would continue to flourish this year.
However, Westhoff has been unable to reproduce anything like that form on a consistent basis so far, kicking only 8.11 in 12 games as opposed to 34.14 in 16 last year.
article continues... (http://www.news.com.au/adelaidenow/sport/afl/story/0,26547,23878428-5014673,00.html)
MannumPower
18 Jun 2008, 09:09
yes his goal kicking has been down but choco hasn't been leaving him in the goal square like he did last year. I do agree a stint in the SANFL would benefit him, take pearcy and P burg as well.
Ford Fairlane
18 Jun 2008, 09:22
Last year we had a handy set up with Ebert, Motlop and Westhoff lurking close to goal - our three forward pocket attack. But now Westhoff's moved upfield we've lost his goal-kicking and overall the team has suffered. Losing Ebert on top of that for a few weeks has knocked us around too.
As has been suggested a few times now, another tall in support of Justin and Wazza allowing Justin to push back closer to goal might be the go.
Power Pete
18 Jun 2008, 10:29
The PAFC have been playing Justin Westhoff more up-field and around the wing area. It's up to other players up forward to drop back into them spaces that Justin has left and kick the odd goals. His possession averages are up and the stats below show this.
http://i248.photobucket.com/albums/gg176/PWIN/pwin2/IMG.jpg
Forzaport
18 Jun 2008, 12:22
Out of all our forwards for their first 12 (or equivalent) games of 08, compared to their first 12 (or equivalent) games of last year:
Westhoff (12): 28.10 - 8.11
Motlop (12): 31.12 - 33.13
Ebert (9): 20.12 - 20.10
Tredrea (12): 17.12 - 23.15
Rodan (12): 15.1 - 13.5
S.Burgoyne (9): 11.8 - 18.4
B.Lade (12): 9.1 - 6.9
Westhoff playing more upfield will lower his goal kicking count, but there has been a severe drop in goals and for a forward, it's a bad bad sign. Other players have been comparable (or above last year's performance. Lade actually has had more shots on goal so far this year compared to last year but he's missed a lot, for such a sure kick, this is worrying. My injury theory on Lade may be gaining steam now (possible groin, maybe OP?)
Forzaport
18 Jun 2008, 12:24
Also, if westhoff is dropped, surely chad must be played up forward. I'm not entire confident yet on cockshell and salter.
Macca19
18 Jun 2008, 12:49
I think its going a bit far based on one game. His Hawthorn and Carlton games were arguably two of his best for the year.
Keep him in the side and bring in a 3rd tall.
Either keep Westhoff in his current role, which he is performing well and relieve him off this pressure to kick 2-3 goals a week, or play him closer to goal so he can kick 2-3 goals a week.
Makes sense.
i dnt know if we have a stat for this, but from the few games i've seen this year, his shots have been from near the 50m arc, whereas last year he got alot of shots alot closer..this would explain his accuracy drop
I think its going a bit far based on one game. His Hawthorn and Carlton games were arguably two of his best for the year.
Keep him in the side and bring in a 3rd tall.
Either keep Westhoff in his current role, which he is performing well and relieve him off this pressure to kick 2-3 goals a week, or play him closer to goal so he can kick 2-3 goals a week.
Makes sense.
But is he perfoming the new role well? The stats show by playing up the ground he is not getting much more possesion than he did last season. His lack of goals in the major concern. Even when he is inside the forward 50 he is getting outmarked a lot.
Powerade 08
18 Jun 2008, 13:22
Also, if westhoff is dropped, surely chad must be played up forward. I'm not entire confident yet on cockshell and salter.
Chad needs to play in the defence, I wouldnt mind bringing Cockshell in, just to fix our structure a bit.
what we need is someone to just stand in the goal square, or about 20-30m from goal and just take marks.. Brendon Lade would be ideal.
DeLuca can come in and do a bit of rucking.
Geoffa32
18 Jun 2008, 14:09
Westhoff is playing a different role this year. One that has changed him from a potential "one season AFL player" to a career one.
By that I mean he is not expected to be a key forward. From my observation he is playing more around the flank and drifting forward when there is space, and when he can get away from his opponent. As someone pointed out he is getting more of the ball than last year. He is a very tall traditional half forward flanker.
If he stayed a key forward he would be far less effective as he is easy to defend against one on one. And would eventually be lost to AFL football, as he cant ruck either.
He does have to learn to keep his feet when under pressure though. But there are worse players than him that could be dropped.
Power King
18 Jun 2008, 14:30
Don't drop Westhoff.
He is being blooded in this role, and so a bit of pain now (at least score wise) is really investment for the future. He's done well for a first year player in this position.
FishingRick04
18 Jun 2008, 14:44
what we need is someone to just stand in the goal square, or about 20-30m from goal and just take marks.. Brendon Lade would be ideal.
DeLuca can come in and do a bit of rucking.
A couple of problems with this though.
A) if predictable can be easy to defend as the opposition get's numbers around the pack and therefore spoils and clears the ball easily with numbers.
B) That would require our game plan to kick to a contested situation which is what our players are not instructed to do.
Therefore, highly unlikely.
Macca19
18 Jun 2008, 14:47
But is he perfoming the new role well? The stats show by playing up the ground he is not getting much more possesion than he did last season. His lack of goals in the major concern. Even when he is inside the forward 50 he is getting outmarked a lot.
I think he is, remembering that we have a fitter Tredrea whos working up the ground a lot more as well.
Westhoff is up in disposals, marks, inside 50s, 1%ers and tackles and is =3rd with Tredders in contested marks. Given that his current role has never been a high goalscoring one (thinking back to Lockwood, Chad, White) I think he is doing well. The only difference is quite a few games Lockwood, Chad and White would end up playing out of FF whereas Hoff hasnt done that yet this year.
Personally I prefer him closer to goal, but I think hes doing well enough in his current role.
I think he is, remembering that we have a fitter Tredrea whos working up the ground a lot more as well.
Westhoff is up in disposals, marks, inside 50s, 1%ers and tackles and is =3rd with Tredders in contested marks. Given that his current role has never been a high goalscoring one (thinking back to Lockwood, Chad, White) I think he is doing well. The only difference is quite a few games Lockwood, Chad and White would end up playing out of FF whereas Hoff hasnt done that yet this year.
Personally I prefer him closer to goal, but I think hes doing well enough in his current role.
Might have to agree to disagree. I just do not think his slight increases in those areas is more beneficial than what he was doing playing inside 50 last season. No doubt he will find it tougher this season after he burst onto the scene.
I just think if Damon White was playing the same role he would have been dropped if his output was in the same bracket as Westhoff long ago.
Macca19
18 Jun 2008, 15:35
Might have to agree to disagree. I just do not think his slight increases in those areas is more beneficial than what he was doing playing inside 50 last season.
We do actually agree on that point though. Id rather he play the same role he did last year as well.
I just dont see what hes gonna learn by going back to Centrals, playing at FF, kick 3-4 goals then come back in and play on a flank again.
powerNeil
18 Jun 2008, 16:56
i think he should go back to S.A.F.L for a games
MotlopRules
18 Jun 2008, 18:13
From what I've seen, his impact away from goals is much less than his impact as a FF last year. Don't really see the point in changing his position if he is going to be ineffective...
I say move him back to the goals, or drop him.
A couple of problems with this though.
A) if predictable can be easy to defend as the opposition get's numbers around the pack and therefore spoils and clears the ball easily with numbers.
B) That would require our game plan to kick to a contested situation which is what our players are not instructed to do.
Therefore, highly unlikely.
Continue as we do now, look for the leads from Tredders motlop and ebert. make sure they lead away from lade's space. then you can either pass to a lead, or go to lade in the square.
Plenty of teams do it, why can't we.. It's always good to have a strong marking player in the goalsquare.
Loyal2Port
18 Jun 2008, 21:40
whilst westy is struggling a little bit to convert, i really dont think this is the week to drop him, i have seen a fair bit of richmond, in cluding last weeks game against the demons. They turn over the ball so much that i think we need our best fowards to play.
also, i am not one to crap on about technique, but when westhoff runs in he moves the ball in a circular motion and i think this is contributing to his constant helipcopters and sprays, maybe there is not enough strenght/momentum in his leg to just hold the ball.
From what I've seen, his impact away from goals is much less than his impact as a FF last year. Don't really see the point in changing his position if he is going to be ineffective...
I say move him back to the goals, or drop him.
totally agree with this
he was outstanding and took the AFL by storm by playing the role of a goal kicker....
he is struggling in his new role
put him back in the square and get him doing what he did last year
get Damon White in the game as a lead up forward (with Tredders) so Westhoff can stay closer to goal with Motlop. Let Robbie Gray roam around half-forward with stints on the ball. He's gonna be a future clearance machine
wharfie_1870
20 Jun 2008, 13:27
Westhoff is on the edge no more.
get Damon White in the game as a lead up forward (with Tredders) so Westhoff can stay closer to goal with Motlop. Let Robbie Gray roam around half-forward with stints on the ball. He's gonna be a future clearance machineYou've got White, Tredrea, Westhoff, Motlop and Gray in our forward line. Sounds as if you see Westhoff at FF and Motlop in a FP (or vice-versa). Gray on a HFF. White and Tredrea are both playing as lead up forwards. Do you see "lead up" forwards playing at CHF or HFF?
How do you see the forward line actually lining up?