Attracting big name players

[BigBadCam]

There are a number of big name players on the market this year. Many clubs will be throwing around big cash to entice these players to their clubs, but the question I pose is this... Geelong is obviously the number one club in the AFL and our premiership window is wide open for a number of years. This would obviously be a factor in enticing players to Geelong, but how much bearing will it have do you think? For instance, I would like to have Scott Lucas sitting in our forward line for the next few years, but know that we oculdn't offer him too much for fear of destroying our team chemistry. He has said in the past that he would like to go to Geelong.

[c0ze]

We couldn't fit any big name players into our list.

[And_ROOS]

At Geelong, we don't buy the big name players, we make them.

[BigBadCam]

At Geelong, we don't buy the big name players, we make them.

I agree with you, and I have no doubt that we have the players already to take us on to big things, but how good would we be with Scott Lucas in the forward line? Would Lucas take a smaller contract for guaranteed success? :)

[hamG]

The theme seems to be we nail a big name forward who is at the end of their career at their own club but they being at our club they increase the chance we will win a premiership.

Underlines make me seem really serious. But is Scott Lucas really the player who will take his game to the next level at Geelong? He's already busted his gut playing without Lloyd to personal success but his team has been absolute shit. I understand Lucas is only an example, but there is only a few big name forwards who make our team better, they are Brown, Franklin and Fevola.

[BlueOyster]

swap a 3rd round pick for del santo, sure i know he plays 2's at the saints but i see some improvement in him.

[KardiniaPark]

Man , they can keep lucas. He only looks good because he's standing next to lloyd!.

[ben_cats_fan]

Man , they can keep lucas. He only looks good because he's standing next to lloyd!.

:rolleyes: correct. And Lucas finishing 2nd in the Coleman in 2006 when Lloyd was out was because he was standing next to Lloyd? C'mon.

Lucas is a good player. I'd have him. But not on much more than what NAblett was on. If Lucas was prepared to take a pay-cut, I'd take him on that pay level tbh.

[darren forssman]

Underlines make me seem really serious. But is Scott Lucas really the player who will take his game to the next level at Geelong? He's already busted his gut playing without Lloyd to personal success but his team has been absolute shit. I understand Lucas is only an example, but there is only a few big name forwards who make our team better, they are Brown, Franklin and Fevola.

but lucas would be that forward type we need...ie just going back and having a shot. and his range is long as well which is also handy.

would love him at the cats, but wont happen.

[The Pivotonian]

but lucas would be that forward type we need...ie just going back and having a shot. and his range is long as well which is also handy.

would love him at the cats, but wont happen.

Lucas hasn't met a shot at goal he didn't like but last week early on he seemed to have swapped places with some Geelong forwards. Kept playing on for no real reason when I would have expected him to go back and have a shot.

Off the topic though. I doubt Geelong would be looking at enticing a 'name' player for the simple fact that the club would be unlikely to fit them under the cap, seems to go against "policy" (i.e. - trading for players) and could upset team chemistry.

*Thinks out loud* "I wonder if that trading policy will still be in play come 2009 when Gold Coast and West Sydney enter the draft"

However, if a 'name' player at Geelong left/is enticed away then it is probably worth some thought.

[hotdog_hotdog]

but lucas would be that forward type we need...ie just going back and having a shot. and his range is long as well which is also handy.

would love him at the cats, but wont happen.

There would be no issues re: sharing the ball too much in the forward line, if Scotty had the pill in his hands.

But I don't think we need Lucas to fix this, The problem is we share the ball all over the field, quick handpasses etc.. is what gets you out of trouble and creates run. For some reason this extends deep into the forward line, where as it should be cut out when a player is within 40 metres of Goal.

I don't want Lucas to fix this problem, I want Mooney and Hawkins to fix this problem!

[JUBJUB]

I must've been in a coma for the last 18 months.Why would we need to entice a big name player to Geelong ? :confused:

If anyone heard John Barnes on K-Rock a few weeks ago talking about Lucas then you'd have second thoughts about taking him.

[hotdog_hotdog]

I must've been in a coma for the last 18 months.Why would we need to entice a big name player to Geelong ? :confused:

If anyone heard John Barnes on K-Rock a few weeks ago talking about Lucas then you'd have second thoughts about taking him.

I don't listen to K-Rock, what was said?

[And_ROOS]

swap a 3rd round pick for del santo, sure i know he plays 2's at the saints but i see some improvement in him.

Pay that :D

[CatmanForever]

Bomber has said many times that the recruitment of Brad Ottens was a one off and the clubs policy is to recruit good players from the draft rather than so called big name players looking for another club. I think this is a lesson he learnt early in his career at geelong when traded picks for established players and ended up with duds.

[Reg Hickey]

No, no, no, no and no.

And in case you missed it - no.

At Geelong, we don't buy the big name players, we make them.

This is spot on. We have a policy of not recruiting name players (or any players for that matter) from other clubs, Ottens excepted, and we have built the best side in the comp from the ground up by sticking to it. Why would we want to f*** that up by trading for someone like Lucas?

[year of the cat]

I don't so much have a problem with Scott Lucas at Geelong it is just the timing is not right. This is the last draft for a few years to recruit young talent that will not be plundered by Gold Coast or West Sydney.

To land Lucas you would need to give up a second round pick at best. For the couple of years he has left I just don't see it being a worthwhile investment, particularly when we have Hawkins and Scott Simpson both developing nicely. And Nathan may be back too....

[darren forssman]

To land Lucas you would need to give up a second round pick at best. For the couple of years he has left I just don't see it being a worthwhile investment, particularly when we have Hawkins and Scott Simpson both developing nicely. And Nathan may be back too....

what about if we picked him up in the pre season draft for nought?

[KardiniaPark]

Whats the point , he would get dragged every 5 minutes for not doing the team thing.

[thegerman]

At Geelong, we don't buy the big name players, we make them.

Except for Ottens. He was most definitely lured by the green. Not saying that is bad, but he was a big name player to come over looking for something different. I would also agree that we did make him a better player too.

I'm in the opinion that we may need to look at something, maybe not this year, but maybe the next. Our glut in the midfield can only go so far. Similarly, two of our better defenders are veterans next year.

I think the recruiters will keep an eye open, as I don't think a couple of lads will hang about with no opportunity presenting itself.

[madcat001]

It's all well and good to say no to trading big name players and building success from young draftees, however, by drafting talented youngsters in 07 and 08, we will not see them peaking until our premiership window is getting towards closing. To build our team even stronger than what it is now, attracting a big name player such as a J Brown and S Lucas is going to be far more beneficial than drafting young blokes who will peak be successful in 4 or 5 years time. You can't draft Joel Selwoods every year.

Our problem at the moment is that we don't have the cash in the cap to pay big name players, but I don't think we should completely disregard the thought if the opportunity arises.

[iameviljez]

I think that we need to be aware that Lucas is over thirty and we do have some excellent young players who may keep our "Premiership Window" open for a lot longer yet. I'm thinking Selwood, Hawkins, Taylor, Gamble, Prismall, hell, even Ablett, Bartel, Kelly and SJ haven't peaked yet.

Recruiting Lucas would be a step backwards in this regard as he wouldn't be of any benefit to these players.

[JUBJUB]

I don't listen to K-Rock, what was said?

The Essendon runners come out to deliver a message from the coach to him and he'll just totally ignore it and just play for himself.

[sarah.13]

Ranga Ediriwickrama that's a big name!!:)

[Turbocat]

You would only consider it if we felt we have an immediate need that can't be filled thru our kids. This is what we did with Ottens.He was the quality Forward/Ruck that we lacked , he also had the potential/talent to make the risk worthwhile.Don't forget there was risk, Ottens was considered a failure and underachiever at Richmond. Although money played its part, there is no doubt our club has been a good fit for him, a much better list that has allowed him to be a role player not the match winner. He did not have to be the standout player each week. Just do your bit etc. the result was to see play at the level he showed in the finals last year , it allowed him to be a match winner.

So for us to look at anyone , it would be only a very talented player who perhaps was ready for a move. An under achiever looking for a fresh start.

The question is where is the weakness that would requires us to do this type of trade.To me there is no real weakness in our side but there are areas of lesser strength. Our rucks are thin in elite youth talent and probably our tall defenders are a little suspect , we are not weak in the midfield.

[BigBadCam]

You would only consider it if we felt we have an immediate need that can't be filled thru our kids. This is what we did with Ottens.He was the quality Forward/Ruck that we lacked , he also had the potential/talent to make the risk worthwhile.Don't forget there was risk, Ottens was considered a failure and underachiever at Richmond. Although money played its part, there is no doubt our club has been a good fit for him, a much better list that has allowed him to be a role player not the match winner. He did not have to be the standout player each week. Just do your bit etc. the result was to see play at the level he showed in the finals last year , it allowed him to be a match winner.

So for us to look at anyone , it would be only a very talented player who perhaps was ready for a move. An under achiever looking for a fresh start.

The question is where is the weakness that would requires us to do this type of trade.To me there is no real weakness in our side but there are areas of lesser strength. Our rucks are thin in elite youth talent and probably our tall defenders are a little suspect , we are not weak in the midfield.

Our forwardline has been our obvious weakness this year, and although I see a lot of future potential, there is not a lot of oomf their right now. Mooney has been more than disappointing this year. With the delivery of our midfield, a guy like Lucas would dominate. As the opening post suggested, I don't think it would be wise to pay a big name player big money to come to Geelong, but players could be enticed Geelong for less cash than they might normally demand, as we are primed for big success. Also, with his history of injuries, we might be able to drop the price even more. I cant see any other clubs offering him a huge amount. He has said in the past that he is interested in going back to Geelong.

[THEWAITISOVER]

The cats have done well with developing players not trading with the exception of Ottens. Hawkins and Simpson in the twos will come along nicely and in tne event that Nathan doesn't play again which he won't we need another you draft pick to build upon. The names White, Spinks Jason Mooney and Kingsley all point to the fact that once a player is worth trading they aren't worth anything

[BigBadCam]

The cats have done well with developing players not trading with the exception of Ottens. Hawkins and Simpson in the twos will come along nicely and in tne event that Nathan doesn't play again which he won't we need another you draft pick to build upon. The names White, Spinks Jason Mooney and Kingsley all point to the fact that once a player is worth trading they aren't worth anything

If we can waste a spot on the senior list on a guy who is backpacking around Australia, I'm sure we could fill it with a guy like Lucas if he came at the right price, which as the opening post suggested, might be very low if he is keen to see some success before he retires.

The point of the thread was not to argue about whether we are doing a good job at developing our own players, as I know we are, and I know that Thompson prides himself on our recruiting over the past few years. The point of this thread was to ask your opinions on whether we might be able to entice stars in the twilight of their careers (like Lucas), to join in our paycut environment that exists at our club.

Obviously, we're not going to pay them top dollar when our own home grown stars are taking paycuts, but if they were also prepared to take paycuts because they thought we were close to a flag, it might not be too damaging to our team chemistry.

[Brasil2007]

Look at all the players traded in the past say two years and list those that have really worked... you can count them on one hand.

I do think though that it does work much better when you are just adding to a pretty settled lineup in a disciplined team. Sydney is a good example. I think we'd fall into that category too.

If you got a good key forward for nothing, you'd be stupid not to take him. Assuming Nate doesn't come back, an injury to Moons would leave Hawkins/Lonners as our CHF/FF combo - not exactly intimidating.

[scottydeewah]

Often in US sports players will move to a team with a chance late in their careers to try and win a championship. Fair enough they get paid 20-50x what our players do so have probably already banked $50M but I sort of like the sentiment in it.

Lets say for example that Pav was 32 and Freo were as shit as they are. He knows he has 2 years left and wont get near a flag at the Dockers. It would be great if he could go to a team with an open window to try and do it. Problem is you would need some form of free agency or less restrictions on trading draft picks, etc to get the deal done and that opens up an entire other can of worms!

[hamG]

I believe the AFL should introduce additional trading periods during the drafts like the NBA has - any player & picks can be traded so long as it involves a pick/player in the draft. Allows clubs to 'trade up' to get that top ruckman or forward or that local young gun, plus an example of Nick Stevens sure he'd be taken by Carlton in the 'other' draft but Collingwood could then make a deal with Carlton to get him. In this system the 'National' draft should be the last event on the season calender.

I don't believe pure free agency is good for the AFL. I definitely don't want American style sportsmen who play for 5+ clubs during their career chasing high dollar short term contracts.

Draft day + trading would be a TV spectacle. I love watching the NBA draft, every year big trades come out of no where during the draft and are announced at the podium at the same time as the 'team x chooses player y with pick z'.

Sorry for the semi derail, just passionate about making elements of our game better!

[worthogs]

There is a Kid called nathan we should try to entice (Back) to Geelong. Stuff Lucas (although Brown Dog would be good but $$$ would not fit). We have the best recruiting staff in the competition why else would we be where we are without an priority pick (and a bit of good breeding). Just look at Harry Taylor, Varco, Prismall, (Ok we stuffed up with Burns). Big names unless they are Judd will not add that much to a team like us.

[thegerman]

I believe the AFL should introduce additional trading periods during the drafts like the NBA has - any player & picks can be traded so long as it involves a pick/player in the draft. Allows clubs to 'trade up' to get that top ruckman or forward or that local young gun, plus an example of Nick Stevens sure he'd be taken by Carlton in the 'other' draft but Collingwood could then make a deal with Carlton to get him. In this system the 'National' draft should be the last event on the season calender.

I don't believe pure free agency is good for the AFL. I definitely don't want American style sportsmen who play for 5+ clubs during their career chasing high dollar short term contracts.

Draft day + trading would be a TV spectacle. I love watching the NBA draft, every year big trades come out of no where during the draft and are announced at the podium at the same time as the 'team x chooses player y with pick z'.

Sorry for the semi derail, just passionate about making elements of our game better!

I sort of agree with you on some points. More so about the NBA experience, but only a little. I like with the NBA that the bottom clubs go into a lottery, as this has the propensity to stop tanking a bit. Imagine if the bottom club got the 7th pick as they lost out on the lottery? Clubs this year didn't finish bottom have a better pick than some who've had their worst seasons in history.

I do like the trade scenario's worked out in the NBA, bloody awesome. However I don't like midseason trades, nor end of season free agent pickups for the finals. Totally hate that, breeds players who are only after one thing and loyalty gets thrown out the window. On the other extent, clubs treat players like a meat market, always shipping guys all over the place, not a way I'd like to be employed.

[cancat]

Our forwardline has been our obvious weakness this year, and although I see a lot of future potential, there is not a lot of oomf their right now. Mooney has been more than disappointing this year. With the delivery of our midfield, a guy like Lucas would dominate. As the opening post suggested, I don't think it would be wise to pay a big name player big money to come to Geelong, but players could be enticed Geelong for less cash than they might normally demand, as we are primed for big success. Also, with his history of injuries, we might be able to drop the price even more. I cant see any other clubs offering him a huge amount. He has said in the past that he is interested in going back to Geelong.

Lucas does not have a bad history of injuries.

Year Games
1996 14
1997 22
1998 23
1999 10
2000 23
2001 25
2002 19
2003 24
2004 21
2005 22
2006 22
2007 22
2008 4

Total 251

[fishman]

Me I thinks they should shop the next tier of players - such as Enright, Corey, Mackie, Kelly and the like - around and see what is on offer. You never know, a bloke like Enright may command a Damon White (tall forward) or a David Mundy. You woudl have to admit Geelong in the immediate short term would benefit by the addition of another tall experienced player yet could lose a few mid sized players.

[DTHitman]

bit harsh on corey?
he isnt a 2nd tier mid :eek:

i also agree drafting players from other clubs is a bad idea..
however it hasnt done to badly for us ie aker + hudson + welsh

[Geelong_Sicko]

Me I thinks they should shop the next tier of players - such as Enright, Corey, Mackie, Kelly and the like - around and see what is on offer.

Hah! All automatic selections in our team, all champs, not chumps. Funny as a wind-up though!:thumbsu:

[DanA]

bit harsh on corey?
he isnt a 2nd tier mid :eek:

i also agree drafting players from other clubs is a bad idea..
however it hasnt done to badly for us ie aker + hudson + welsh

I'd say the Bulldogs are an exception because.

1. They drafted too small in the Wallace era.
2. Very bad luck with KP forwards (ie:Tim Walsh)
3. Paid peanuts for these trades

[LifeSpan-Void]

Me I thinks they should shop the next tier of players - such as Enright, Corey, Mackie, Kelly and the like - around and see what is on offer. You never know, a bloke like Enright may command a Damon White (tall forward) or a David Mundy. You woudl have to admit Geelong in the immediate short term would benefit by the addition of another tall experienced player yet could lose a few mid sized players.

Enright for Damon White?? are you high??

[My5t3r10u5]

bit harsh on corey?
he isnt a 2nd tier mid :eek:

i also agree drafting players from other clubs is a bad idea..
however it hasnt done to badly for us ie aker + hudson + welsh

My theory on drafting from other clubs is that it usually only works where the player is the one wanting to move, which was the case with these three from the Bullies. Where a club offers a player then this is much more hit and miss. With Well's skill in selecting talent and Thompson's skill in developing players I can't see why we would want to draft players from other clubs. Far less disruption to the team.

[Jimmy 2 Shoes]

Me I thinks they should shop the next tier of players - such as Enright, Corey, Mackie, Kelly and the like - around and see what is on offer. You never know, a bloke like Enright may command a Damon White (tall forward) or a David Mundy. You woudl have to admit Geelong in the immediate short term would benefit by the addition of another tall experienced player yet could lose a few mid sized players.

Ugh, thank ____ you aren't making any decisions down at the club.

[Turbocat]

Our forwardline has been our obvious weakness this year, and although I see a lot of future potential, there is not a lot of oomf their right now. Mooney has been more than disappointing this year. With the delivery of our midfield, a guy like Lucas would dominate. As the opening post suggested, I don't think it would be wise to pay a big name player big money to come to Geelong, but players could be enticed Geelong for less cash than they might normally demand, as we are primed for big success. Also, with his history of injuries, we might be able to drop the price even more. I cant see any other clubs offering him a huge amount. He has said in the past that he is interested in going back to Geelong.

Dont agree. Our obvious area of "weakness" has been the ruck. Ottens being out has shown that Blake is a long way from being an Ottens replacment and the others even further off. The second area of vulnerability has been our backline. Scarlett and Harley has done a top job without Egan. Our recruitment of HarryT has been inspired but if Harley or Scarlett fell over for any significant time we would be brittle. However , as with Taylor Im sure we can groom or draft replacments.

While Mooney and Hawkins have been poor , we have had no dificulty scoring because of our tallented smalls and mids.

If another "Ottens" , a player who can ruck and play forward became available then I would consider it otherwise I trust our list.

[The Pivotonian]

fishman, at the risk of opening myself up to attack here I'll throw some love your way.

While I'm sure there will be people throwing their arms up saying things like "clearly Pivo has lost the plot here" or "what are you on boy?" I can see where you are coming from.

While I don't completely agree with the players you cited I see where you are coming from and it does echo some thoughts I have have over the course of the years.

There is a school of thought that suggests sides often need to 'bottom out' so they can re-build. Luckily, Geelong hasn't had to do that due to some very astute recruiting over the years.

However, I do feel at some point a football club needs to look longer term to try and limit damage when the good players are on the decline or retire.

Does a club trade off a player in his prime to try and get access to a high draft pick to ensure there is a transistion over the course of a couple of years or do they place faith in the reccruiting staff?

Unless a top-liner requests a trade it is unlikely a club would willingly move them on to improve their draft position. However, a good second tier player could be seen as tradable, especially if a side has a glut of 'similar-types' on their list.

With the advent of Gold Coast and West Sydney coming into the competition and the AFL likely to adjust the draft to get these two sides competitive in the short term to ensure support and sponsorship $ some of these sorts of decisions will have to be considered by exisiting clubs as access to the top line youth is going to be harder to get a hold of the higher up the table a side finishes.

It isn't a great thought but clubs that adapt to these changes the quickest and most cannily will do the best out of this period of change. Some players who are in their best form may be used to improve draft position over the next few years.

As supporters we may not like some of the decisions that are likely to be made but they will need to be considered to ensure continued success for some clubs and improvement for others.

[linelefty]

You're spot on Pivot.....
this group is good enough to win a Flag, dont fyack with it.

The focus should be on softening the downturn when the window starts to close. We dont want to end up like Carlton/Essendon and now WCE. I think the lions have probably done OK, as have the pies.

What does that mean practically? Well, starting next year. you keep the core 24-25 players but you risk culling the fringe players like Byrnes, D.Johnson, Prismall, etc and start rebuilding with draftees. The risk is that you lose the 'depth' players that are hard, fit and honest. If, through injuries, bad form, criminal convictions, defections and drug addictions you have to blood all those at once, then its rock bottom (WCE)

However if you can have a managed transition then you should be able to land softly. ITs the right time for us to do that because we wont be missing out on any rich draft pickings by not bottoming out.

[vinum coupe]

There is a school of thought that suggests sides often need to 'bottom out' so they can re-build. Luckily, Geelong hasn't had to do that due to some very astute recruiting over the years.

However, I do feel at some point a football club needs to look longer term to try and limit damage when the good players are on the decline or retire.



I couldn't handle that scenario.

I've lived through 30 years of never bottoming out and never winning the thing (until last year of course)

Lets just run ourselves into the ground for the next 4 years. If we win 2 or 3 more and then have to spend 4 years at the bottom I don't care.

But having said that. The guys in charge now and Mr Wells (who deserves a statue) will not let it happen. There will always be guys that we trade out (it's an AFL rule for a start) but I wouldn't be 'playing safe' and making it a policy.

Just heed the club moto. Footy full on