View Full Version : Hawks V Bulldogs - who has the better midfield?
Claude Balls
20 Jun 2008, 12:28
Firstly, let me offer the obligatory apology in advance in case this thread exists already. I'm not too adept with the search function.
Anyway, this is how I would summarise them:
DOGGIES:
Cooney
Cross
Boyd
Griffen
Aker
Ruck: Hudson/Minson
HAWKS:
Mitchell
Hodge
Lewis
Sewell
Crawf
Ruck: Taylor/Campell
The Hawks still look extremely good, though the Doggies' mob gave them a bit of a bath a few weeks ago, and are increasing in reputation each week. Admittedly the Hawks were missing Hodge that week, though I can't help but think that with Hudson in the ruck (who is effectively another hard bodied midfielder once the ball has hit the deck), Cooney in career best, goal kicking form, and Aker back to his damaging and dangerous best, that the Dogs have closed the gap... They are just so dynamic and multi faceted.
What do others think?
Claude Balls
20 Jun 2008, 12:30
Apologies to Dogs fans if I have somewhat misrepresented your midfield. It's probably symbolic of how they are recognised, and I expect this to be something that will have changed by the end of the year.
HolyWars
20 Jun 2008, 12:32
I think we do (suprise suprise) but I think the Dogs mids are performing better atm.:thumbsu:
TBoyleSuperstar
20 Jun 2008, 12:43
Match that up against Geelong:
Ablett
Bartel
Corey
Selwood
Kelly
Rucks:Ottens/Blake
All 3 are pretty awesome I would think. In fact, I would take all 3 in a heartbeat.
Claude Balls
20 Jun 2008, 12:48
Match that up against Geelong:
Ablett
Bartel
Corey
Selwood
Kelly
Rucks:Ottens/Blake
All 3 are pretty awesome I would think. In fact, I would take all 3 in a heartbeat.
Yeah I think those three are fairly comfortably ensconsed in their own bracket, well ahead of the next best. Previously I really struggled to decide which team's midfield was the next best after the hawks and the Cats. People bandied around Port and Brisbane, and perhaps Sydney and St. Kilda, but the Dogs have shot well clear of of any of those teams now.
I still can't decide which group I'd rather out of Dogs and Hawks. I'm leaning Hawks, but am interested to read a few more responses first, including those of neutral supporters, before I cast a vote.
Home Alone
20 Jun 2008, 12:55
If you include Crawford for Hawthorn, can we swap West for Aker.
Claude Balls
20 Jun 2008, 12:56
If you include Crawford for Hawthorn, can we swap West for Aker.
Yeah I wasn't sure what to do with West. Crawf has played games this year, while Scotty hasn't had he?
Aker is in very good form, so woulnd't you rather swap West for Griffen in that lineup?
Hodgepodge
20 Jun 2008, 13:09
i'm going with the bulldogs midfield at the moment, they're a tough outfit.
Home Alone
20 Jun 2008, 13:19
He has played 4 or 5.
But I would prefer Griffen in the midfield than Aker.
Personally, I think they are different kinds of midfields to compare, but equally effective. Without having the lists infront of me, I would think the Dogs next 2 or 3 (for the rotations) would be a little better.
Claude Balls
20 Jun 2008, 13:58
7 nil to the Hawks. Perhaps I am a year early to claim that the Dogs' group has drawn level with the Hawks. And perhaps I place too much stock in Ruck superiority the Dogs have over the Hawks.
I suppose I would rather Hodge, Mitchel and Sewell lining up for me in a final over Cooney, Cross and Griffen.
Cooney and Griffen are several years younger than Hodge and Mitchell however. I feel they are a very good chance to be regarded as superior in another 12-18 months time.
HolyWars
20 Jun 2008, 16:39
7 nil to the Hawks. Perhaps I am a year early to claim that the Dogs' group has drawn level with the Hawks. And perhaps I place too much stock in Ruck superiority the Dogs have over the Hawks.
I suppose I would rather Hodge, Mitchel and Sewell lining up for me in a final over Cooney, Cross and Griffen.
Cooney and Griffen are several years younger than Hodge and Mitchell however. I feel they are a very good chance to be regarded as superior in another 12-18 months time.
is Cooney 16 or 17 is he?:D
Griffin is 21, Cooney is 22, Hodge is 23, Mitchell is 25 :)
Bodicifer
20 Jun 2008, 16:51
Very very even...one would think the Cats midfield by a smidge over an even Dogs/Hawks...given the fact that the Cats midfiled has the GF experience from last year.
The biggest question for me would be who would have the 4th best midfield? Would Brisbane perhaps with Black, Power, Johnstone, Lappin?
Claude Balls
20 Jun 2008, 18:24
is Cooney 16 or 17 is he?:D
Griffin is 21, Cooney is 22, Hodge is 23, Mitchell is 25 :)
Please, think a bit harder will you. Hodge may be 23, but he has been in the system since the 2002 preseason, same as Mitchell. Ablett and Bartel took a good 5 preseasons to really blossum and become elite midfielders. Cooney is becoming one now, after 5 preseasons. Anyway, see below:
Preseasons:
Hodge: 7
Mitchell: 7
Cooney: 5
Griffen: 4.
It's funny how many people seem to go by technical age, which is actually a far more fallible measure than time in the system. Take Mitchell and Hodge for example: at first glance there's two years between them, but in actual fact, they've had the same quantity of training etc.
CyberKev
21 Jun 2008, 11:23
Preseasons:
Hodge: 7
In reality he has had 4.
Bad OP caused him to miss his first preseason and other injuries meant that he missed the next two.
His body isn't right now and never really has been, no thanks to Schwab & Co for playing him injured early in his career (should never have played in 2002 for mine).
SA HAWK
21 Jun 2008, 11:38
Hawks.
Magpie Magic
21 Jun 2008, 13:54
Hawks but only by a bit.
I really rate the dog's midfield, they've got the mix of speed, strength and skills which makes me rank them the third best midfield in the AFL (behind Geelong and Hawthorn).
Hawks have the 3rd best midfield in the AFL, and the Bulldogs are ranked about 4th or 5th.:)
TassieSaint
21 Jun 2008, 14:17
I would have thought the answer was obvious, last time I saw Hawthorn play the Bulldogs, the Doggies killed Hawthorn in the midfield. There was no Hodge, granted, but I doubt he would have made that much difference. Dogs for me
doggiesin08
21 Jun 2008, 14:25
In reality he has had 4.
Bad OP caused him to miss his first preseason and other injuries meant that he missed the next two.
His body isn't right now and never really has been, no thanks to Schwab & Co for playing him injured early in his career (should never have played in 2002 for mine).In reality then Cooney has only had 1 preseason. Swings it more in the Dogs favour.
comrade
21 Jun 2008, 14:28
Hawks have the 3rd best midfield in the AFL, and the Bulldogs are ranked about 4th or 5th.:)
Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
Bulldogs ranked #1 in clearances
Hawthorn ranked #13 in clearances
Bulldogs ranked #1 in contested possession
Hawthorn ranked #11 in contested possesion
Bulldogs ranked #3 in first possesion
Hawthorn ranked #15 in first possesion
Bulldogs ranked #2 in Inside 50
Hawthorn ranked #6 in Inside 50
Bulldogs ranked #2 in total disposals
Hawthorn ranked #4 in total disposals
Stats courtesy of pro-stats.com.au
Don't let facts get in the way of a good story.
....
lol. Online footy stats are meaningless of course, because (a) they depend on the gameplan used and (b) you are relying on a statistician to judge what is and isn't a stat. If you actually watch the game you'll understand the true effectiveness of each midfield on gameday, and the Hawks midfield is clearly better at this stage. :)
Heater39
21 Jun 2008, 14:53
Hawks have the 3rd best midfield in the AFL, and the Bulldogs are ranked about 4th or 5th.:)
Who is 1 and 2?
comrade
21 Jun 2008, 14:57
lol. Online footy stats are meaningless of course, because (a) they depend on the gameplan used and (b) you are relying on a statistician to judge what is and isn't a stat. If you actually watch the game you'll understand the true effectiveness of each midfield on gameday, and the Hawks midfield is clearly better at this stage. :)
Yeah, I'm sure the clubs take no notice of stats and just go by hunch.
ttomred17
21 Jun 2008, 15:04
Hawks have the 3rd best midfield in the AFL, and the Bulldogs are ranked about 4th or 5th.:)
What is this crap???
Yeah, I'm sure the clubs take no notice of stats and just go by hunch.
Um..they actually watch the game. Perhaps you should try it sometime instead of looking up pointless online footy stats. lol. :)
Um..they actually watch the game. Perhaps you should try it sometime instead of looking up pointless online footy stats. lol. :)
The bulldogs are ranked number 1 this season in goals from stoppages. Given our game plan isnt about creating stoppages (ie sydney/saints) this actually shows how dominate our midfield has been this year in this area.
It also suggests our midfield's have toughened up and changed their flawed gameplan from previous years. They now have a system which can stand up under finals pressure.
eth-dog
21 Jun 2008, 17:05
Bulldogs by a country mile
CyberKev
21 Jun 2008, 18:11
In reality then Cooney has only had 1 preseason. Swings it more in the Dogs favour.
Yes, of course. :rolleyes:
Bulldog1954
21 Jun 2008, 20:53
With Hawthorns supposedly muchebetter midfield and their gun key forwards, is our backline much better or is it just a fluke that we are a great chance of being ahead of them in 24 hours time?
croady_fan24
23 Jun 2008, 00:12
Hawks have the better midfield.
Anti Gold Coast
23 Jun 2008, 01:18
Griffin- star
Boyd- underrated gun
Cooney- 2nd in the brownlow behind Ablett
Cross- Gun
Aker- b/low medalist
Hudson is the best out of those 4 rucks
I'd prefer the Dogs midfield.
When both are on song there wouldn't be a side that could stop them.
I'm happy with ours and I guarantee the Dogs are more than happy with theirs. Can't split them.
MoonSwans
23 Jun 2008, 17:37
Dogs. just.
Claude Balls
24 Jun 2008, 15:22
The weekend was probably an endorsement for the Dogs, with respect to this thread, rather than the Hawks.
Hudson brings so much to the Doggie onballers that the Hawks' ruckman can't bring to their onballers.
Am I right in believing that the Dogs are # 1 this year for contested possesions as well?
They could very well have the Hawks comfortably by the end of the year.