was gary ablett senior the most naturally talented player ever ?

[geelong_crazy26]

was gary ablett senior the most naturally talented player ever to play the game ? this does not mean he is the best just that he had the most ability

[one_twelve112]

Alex Jesaulenko was more naturally talented than Gary Ablett.

[Claude Balls]

One_twelve112, I shake my head.

Of course Gary Snr was the most talented to play the game. The reason why many won't go so far as to say he was the best ever, is that he often played the game like it was an individual sport, and failed to bring team mates into the game. Therein lies your answer.

[diablo14]

Alex Jesaulenko was more naturally talented than Gary Ablett.

Jezza is a champ and will always be one of my favorite players, but Gazza has him covered by some distance.

No one, and I mean NO ONE, could do the things that Gazza did with the footy on a quarterly basis, week in week out.

I'm not just saying that coz i'm a Geelong fan either.

Get your hands on a tape of the 89 PF v Essendon. The game has never been played better by an individual ever, in the the history of the game, than the way Gazza played that day.

Here are some highlights...

lM1Q2QT-GW4

[Hodgepodge]

He's no Lance Franklin, but a pretty good full-forward nonetheless.

[diablo14]

He's no Lance Franklin, but a pretty good full-forward nonetheless.

Lance Franklin isn't fit to kiss Gazza's bootlaces.

[Hodgepodge]

meh, gary wasn't even the best forward of his time, there was locket and dunstall, then gary. . . franklin's ontrack to kick 100 goals in a regular season, in an era where many thought it was no longer possible. No other player is coming close to cracking the ton.

[diablo14]

meh, gary wasn't even the best forward of his time, there was locket and dunstall, then gary. . . franklin's ontrack to kick 100 goals in a regular season, in an era where many thought it was no longer possible. No other player is coming close to cracking the ton.

OK, just wanted to make sure you had only been watching football since the mid 90's.

[Hodgepodge]

i watched the 80s too . . . he was a half-forward back then.

[diablo14]

In the 80's Gary played wing/half forward, but basically just went wherever he felt like.

Name me one other player in the history of the game who has kicked 14 goals playing on a wing?

[Hodgepodge]

everyone kicked goals on richmond, dunstall kicked 17.5 on them and they were lucky to get away with that.

[diablo14]

everyone kicked goals on richmond, dunstall kicked 17.5 on them and they were lucky to get away with that.

Not the point. I can name you other players who have kicked 17 goals in a game from full forward as Dunstall did. Where are those other players who have kicked 14 goals in a game off a wing?

[Skeppersap]

meh, gary wasn't even the best forward of his time, there was locket and dunstall, then gary. . . franklin's ontrack to kick 100 goals in a regular season, in an era where many thought it was no longer possible. No other player is coming close to cracking the ton.

Ablett didnt play as a permanant forward because he was more valuable playing around the ground in his younger days.

Judging by 1993, had he played FF from the start his goal kicking record would be well ahead of Dunstall and Lockett.

Best player ever, by some distance. Has has been mentioned, perhaps his only downfall is that he wasnt a great team player.

His son makes up for that though!

[Hodgepodge]

I don't know how many others have done that, or if gazza did it, at least from memory i remember him as a half-forward. I don't know if Leigh Matthews kicked 14 in a game, but he slotted through 91 goals in a year as a midfielder in the 70s, that's a real feat, over a year.

[diablo14]

Ablett didnt play as a permanant forward because he was more valuable playing around the ground in his younger days.

Judging by 1993, had he played FF from the start his goal kicking record would be well ahead of Dunstall and Lockett.

Best player ever, by some distance. Has has been mentioned, perhaps his only downfall is that he wasnt a great team player.

His son makes up for that though!

Whats really amusing is that this bloke actually believes Buddy is better than Gazza snr. What's even more amusing is I know he's not the only Hawthorn supporter who thinks it too.

[Motormouse]

Dunstall was superb, and had the ability to completely change the way his team played and thereby the outcome of the game.

But for mine, Gary Snr was a genius. In so many aspects of the game, on so many occasions his mastery of the football left people awestruck. He had an almost unnatural (or if you prefer, the purely natural) ability to control the football, and the players around him to suit himself.

Words fail to do his numerous feats justice..... He was simply the best.:thumbsu:

[Hodgepodge]

Ablett didnt play as a permanant forward because he was more valuable playing around the ground in his younger days.

Judging by 1993, had he played FF from the start his goal kicking record would be well ahead of Dunstall and Lockett.

Best player ever, by some distance. Has has been mentioned, perhaps his only downfall is that he wasnt a great team player.

His son makes up for that though!

Judging by 92, dunstall would have kicked 1500 goals if he didn't crack his skull . . . it's a silly argument.

[Hodgepodge]

i suppose you also thought this was a mark?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=03YRaXVR4gI

[diablo14]

I don't know how many others have done that, or if gazza did it, at least from memory i remember him as a half-forward. I don't know if Leigh Matthews kicked 14 in a game, but he slotted through 91 goals in a year as a midfielder in the 70s, that's a real feat, over a year.

Leigh Matthews best in a match was 11 goals. In the year he kicked 91 goals, he did spend a reasonable amount of time up forward.

But we aren't talking about Lethal, he is the greatest of them all and you'll get no arguments from me on that.

You are saying Buddy Franklin is more talented and even a better player than Gary Ablett Snr. And that is just wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

[Hodgepodge]

gary spent a lot of time up forward when he had hair too . . . it's like saying richo's kicking 5 goals from the wing, but he's not, he's drifting forward and kicking a goal a qtr. I remember in the finals in the 80s when hawks played geelong, gary was more of a centrehalfforward than anything else.

[diablo14]

i suppose you also thought this was a mark?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=03YRaXVR4gI

Whether you, or anyone else, likes it or not, it was paid a mark by the umpire, which means its a mark. The record books will forever show that it was a mark, so therefore, it is a mark.

[Hodgepodge]

You are saying Buddy Franklin is more talented and even a better player than Gary Ablett Snr. And that is just wrong. Wrong wrong wrong.

Well i'm saying he will be, by the end of his career, barring serious injuries/mishaps, he'll be the greatest of all time.

[Hodgepodge]

Whether you, or anyone else, likes it or not, it was paid a mark by the umpire, which means its a mark. The record books will forever show that it was a mark, so therefore, it is a mark.

Of course it's a mark, but i'm asking you whether it is a mark.

[Hodgepodge]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=jnAvTIY9UoI

have a dance . . . you'll notice these clips were taken from just 4 or 5 regular home and away matches.

[geelong_crazy26]

meh, gary wasn't even the best forward of his time, there was locket and dunstall, then gary. . . franklin's ontrack to kick 100 goals in a regular season, in an era where many thought it was no longer possible. No other player is coming close to cracking the ton.

lol never sore dunstall and locket do the things ablett did

are you saying franklin is better than Jonathan brown ? I don't think so :rolleyes:

[diablo14]

Of course it's a mark, but i'm asking you whether it is a mark.


As a Geelong supporter, I am not answering the question because I am on a hiding to nothing.

All i'll say is that I've seen less paid as a mark than that.

People carry on like it blatantly wasn't a mark, but if it wasn't, it was a mere sliver away.

[geelong_crazy26]

I don't think franklin is worthy of being included in any of these greatest player discussions , hes a KP forward who isn't a great mark by anyones standards. Not saying hes not a top player but he is not close to being one of the games greatest ever.

[Motormouse]

i suppose you also thought this was a mark?

http://youtube.com/watch?v=03YRaXVR4gI

It was in those days! You only had to have been seen to control the ball, not have hold of it. 2-3 taps and it counted back then. I recall marks from those days where opposition players had hands to the ball also and marks were still played. The interpretations have certainly changed since then.

[Hodgepodge]

It was in those days! You only had to have been seen to control the ball, not have hold of it. 2-3 taps and it counted back then. I recall marks from those days where opposition players had hands to the ball also and marks were still played. The interpretations have certainly changed since then.

even back then i was surprised they paid it . . . i remember that day well . . . he did good to get up there and i think that's what they paid it for . . .

[deledio7]

geez ive read all the posts and i cannot believe it....to even compare buddy to ablett snr is laughable, these are the reasons hawks supporters are most hated on big footy....delusional, and dont bring richmond jokes into it it'll be to easy..stay on topic and keep ya head up

[diablo14]

geez ive read all the posts and i cannot believe it....to even compare buddy to ablett snr is laughable, these are the reasons hawks supporters are most hated on big footy....delusional, and dont bring richmond jokes into it it'll be to easy..stay on topic and keep ya head up


It's not even that they rate Buddy as a better player, but go out of their way to talk down how good Gazza was. They way they talk, you'd think he was just another hacker who bobbed up every so often.

[stui magpie]

was gary ablett senior the most naturally talented player ever to play the game ? this does not mean he is the best just that he had the most ability

Yep. I'd also go as far as saying he was the best. I'm told a young lad by the name of John Greening may have been right up there but Gary Snr is by far the best footballer I've ever seen. Jezza was good but in the (way back) second tier with Blight and a few others.

To even compare Franklin with Gary Ablett at this stage is massive premature ejaculation.

[Hodgepodge]

i don't recall describing gablett as a hack, he'd be in my team of the last century as a half forward but i think by the end of buddy's career, he'll be the FF or CHF

[deledio7]

hahaha no shite....gazza is the best ever, not just most talented ,
end thread..

[Hodgepodge]

hahaha no shite....gazza is the best ever, not just most talented ,
end thread..

well leigh matthews is officially the best ever, but this thread is debating whether gazza is the most talented.

[diablo14]

i don't recall describing gablett as a hack, he'd be in my team of the last century as a half forward but i think by the end of buddy's career, he'll be the FF or CHF


When you use the words 'meh' when talking about a player, that basically says you don't rate them that highly.

[Hodgepodge]

meh . . . i use 'meh' a lot, i rate gazza and jr a lot, but not that much.

[deledio7]

well leigh matthews is officially the best ever, but this thread is debating whether gazza is the most talented.
officially??? i stated that i believe ablett snr is not only the most talented but best ever...trust me that isnt as outrageous as u may believe.

[Hodgepodge]

officially??? i stated that i believe ablett snr is not only the most talented but best ever...trust me that isnt as outrageous as u may believe.

officially as in voted by his peers to be the best ever . . .

[davey_magik]

In terms of talent, yes.

I knew gc26 made this thread when I saw the first word didn't start with a capital :D .

[The Sim Dog]

well leigh matthews is officially the best ever, but this thread is debating whether gazza is the most talented.

Guess who Leigh gives his vote too? #### off troll. Typical Hawthorn bigfooty moron. You've had your say, you don't need to dominate the thread with your stupidity.

[cats2rise]

Why do you start obvious threads, GC26?
Is Ablett the most naturally talent player, is ablett better than hodge etc etc.. Everyone knows the answer to them.

[Hodgepodge]

Guess who Leigh gives his vote too? #### off troll. Typical Hawthorn bigfooty moron. You've had your say, you don't need to dominate the thread with your stupidity.

i don't think you can vote for yourself, or if you can, it's not good form.

[Big Nasty]

meh, gary wasn't even the best forward of his time, there was locket and dunstall, then gary. . . franklin's ontrack to kick 100 goals in a regular season, in an era where many thought it was no longer possible. No other player is coming close to cracking the ton.
Actually Ablett played on the wing/half Forward most of his career & still got 1,000 + goals easily.
What people don't realise is. If Ablett spent his whole career at FF like Lockett, Dunstall etc.. he would have easily got over 1,700+ goals.
Dont forget in 1993 - Ablett kicked 124.6 in 17 games (a goal average of 7.3) he was 31 that year.
About 18% of Gary Snr.'s career he was suspended or injured.
Take these figures into account & accept Ablett wasn't the most die hard footy player but he was without doubt, the most naturally gifted...

-84YDSkDCZY&feature=related KRq_zLLB9g4

[ChunkyDuckling]

Why do you start obvious threads, GC26?
Is Ablett the most naturally talent player, is ablett better than hodge etc etc.. Everyone knows the answer to them.

Because he is incredibly insecure.

I dont know why he is qualified to comment on Ablett Sr anyway, the guy is in year 12, which means he would have been about 3 when Ablett was blowing everyone away.

[Gaz_Brownlow]

Actually Ablett played on the wing/half Forward most of his career & still got 1,000 + goals easily.
What people don't realise is. If Ablett spent his whole career at FF like Lockett, Dunstall etc.. he would have easily got over 1,700+ goals.
Dont forget in 1993 - Ablett kicked 124.6 in 17 games (a goal average of 7.3) he was 31 that year.
About 18% of Gary Snr.'s career he was suspended or injured.
Take these figures into account & accept Ablett wasn't the most die hard footy player but he was without doubt, the most naturally gifted...

Ablett was an absolute genius, he was hard, freakish, could kick a ball 50m either side of his body, punch a torp 60m into the breeze on the run (and it is rumoured he did this on the left, but never saw that!!), leap higher then any ruckman of any era, outmuscle the strongest full backs and take 1 arm speccies, run into a congested pack and come out with the ball, deliver a bump so hard that it could puncture the lungs of bearded giants, outsprint (in the 80's at least) 90% of the competition, snap a ball from over his shoulder (again either side) from any pocket...what else, need i go on?.

There is evidence of all of this...look at the highlights. The guy simply was the most talented player going around, he was a footballing superman!


This does not mean he was the best full forward, or the best wing, or the greatest half forward...he transcended positions to a great extent and that in itself is his greatest attribute. To argue that any other player had these abilities is fruitless. I haven't seen 150 years of football, so sure i don't know, and yes there are better players in individual aspects...but simply put, Ablett was the package.

Add to this he played in a fairly tough era where umpire intervention was minimal (unless on report!) - i.e. defenders were allowed to scrag and chop and you may come to an apprection of the guys abilities.

If you really want to compare to modern day stars, then well there is no comparision. Franklin can't take a pack mark nor use the other side of his body and to tell the truth doesn't put his head over it that much, Riewoldt has no distance on his kicks and just doesn't have awareness, Brown is bloody good at his best but again although having the courage and Careyesque stature, the freakish side of his game is not there. Pavlich at the very top of his game can do some pretty special things, and is actually quite similar to Ablett as a package, its just he is about 80% of that full package!

Comparing to stars of yesteryear, Mr Football was a tough as guts CHB but rarely went elsewhere, Leigh Matthews was just round ball tough, but certainly didn't have the skills of Ablett (although more than made up for it with his tenacity!), Coleman didn't play the game long enough, i won't go on too long...never really saw these players anyways.

Ablett, without a doubt is the most talented footballer, certainly, that i have seen. Again, he just had the whole package, abilities in every conceivable area. It does not mean he was the most valuable player to a team, but simply Captain ____ing Obvious would have to agree that there has not been another player since who consistently displays these all round abilities.

[ChunkyDuckling]

Actually Ablett played on the wing/half Forward most of his career & still got 1,000 + goals easily.
What people don't realise is. If Ablett spent his whole career at FF like Lockett, Dunstall etc.. he would have easily got over 1,700+ goals.
Dont forget in 1993 - Ablett kicked 124.6 in 17 games (a goal average of 7.3) he was 31 that year.
About 18% of Gary Snr.'s career he was suspended or injured.
Take these figures into account & accept Ablett wasn't the most die hard footy player but he was without doubt, the most naturally gifted...

Good post. IMO he was the most talented player ever, but not the best forward of his time. You said it yourself, he spent a lot of time away from the forward line.

And before I get lambasted as being a typical bigfooty Dawk moron, I though Lockett was the best, look at his delivery. Hawthorn and Geelong were strong, St. Kilda were pants.

[Heater39]

I was too young to see him play but apparently a bloke called Phil Carman who played for Collingwood was extremely talented. His problem was that he got himself suspended more times than Hall, Dermie and Diesel combined (e.g. headbutting an umpire) so didn't get to establish himself as one of the greats.

Not saying he was more talented than Ablett just saying that from all accounts he was a very gifted footballer. Also pioneered the white boots i'm lead to believe.

[diablo14]

Comparing to stars of yesteryear, Mr Football was a tough as guts CHB but rarely went elsewhere, Leigh Matthews was just round ball tough, but certainly didn't have the skills of Ablett (although more than made up for it with his tenacity!), Coleman didn't play the game long enough, i won't go on too long...never really saw these players anyways.




You are selling Lethal well short here. His skill and brilliance was not as far behind Gazza's as you might think.

[gothedogs1]

i would say yes

[Big Nasty]

If you want to see a player dominate a game like you have never seen. Then I promise, you need to get the 1989 Semi final.. Preliminary final.. & '89 Grand final - no player has ripped the sh!tiz from a final's campaign like GOD did in 1989.

[Pegman]

Yeah, from footage i have seen, and all i have read, I'd definitely have to say Ablett was a one of a kind.

But throwing someone else into the mix, never saw much of him, but when Jarman played for the hawks, apparently his passes were just pure gold. Was only young, but still remembering being quite upset that he moved over to Adelaide.

[ChunkyDuckling]

If you want to see a player dominate a game like you have never seen. Then I promise, you need to get the 1989 Semi final.. Preliminary final.. & '89 Grand final - no player has ripped the sh!tiz from a final's campaign like GOD did in 1989.

Cant argue with you there. :thumbsu:

[Hodgepodge]

You are selling Lethal well short here. His skill and brilliance was not as far behind Gazza's as you might think.

lethal dodged players with absolute ease, he could've been carrying a tray of coffees and they wouldn't have spilled.

[diablo14]

lethal dodged players with absolute ease, he could've been carrying a tray of coffees and they wouldn't have spilled.

He could have also changed foot mid kick while carrying the tray of coffees. Just a supremely balanced footballer, to go with everything else in his arsenal.

[deledio7]

officially as in voted by his peers to be the best ever . . .
ok thanks for clarifying...his peers voted him the best therefore my opinion should change...
next

[stui magpie]

Ablett was an absolute genius, he was hard, freakish, could kick a ball 50m either side of his body, punch a torp 60m into the breeze on the run (and it is rumoured he did this on the left, but never saw that!!), leap higher then any ruckman of any era, outmuscle the strongest full backs and take 1 arm speccies, run into a congested pack and come out with the ball, deliver a bump so hard that it could puncture the lungs of bearded giants, outsprint (in the 80's at least) 90% of the competition, snap a ball from over his shoulder (again either side) from any pocket...what else, need i go on?.

There is evidence of all of this...look at the highlights. The guy simply was the most talented player going around, he was a footballing superman!


This does not mean he was the best full forward, or the best wing, or the greatest half forward...he transcended positions to a great extent and that in itself is his greatest attribute. To argue that any other player had these abilities is fruitless. I haven't seen 150 years of football, so sure i don't know, and yes there are better players in individual aspects...but simply put, Ablett was the package.

Add to this he played in a fairly tough era where umpire intervention was minimal (unless on report!) - i.e. defenders were allowed to scrag and chop and you may come to an apprection of the guys abilities.

If you really want to compare to modern day stars, then well there is no comparision. Franklin can't take a pack mark nor use the other side of his body and to tell the truth doesn't put his head over it that much, Riewoldt has no distance on his kicks and just doesn't have awareness, Brown is bloody good at his best but again although having the courage and Careyesque stature, the freakish side of his game is not there. Pavlich at the very top of his game can do some pretty special things, and is actually quite similar to Ablett as a package, its just he is about 80% of that full package!

Comparing to stars of yesteryear, Mr Football was a tough as guts CHB but rarely went elsewhere, Leigh Matthews was just round ball tough, but certainly didn't have the skills of Ablett (although more than made up for it with his tenacity!), Coleman didn't play the game long enough, i won't go on too long...never really saw these players anyways.

Ablett, without a doubt is the most talented footballer, certainly, that i have seen. Again, he just had the whole package, abilities in every conceivable area. It does not mean he was the most valuable player to a team, but simply Captain ____ing Obvious would have to agree that there has not been another player since who consistently displays these all round abilities.

You let yourself down on two main points.

EJ Whitten played more at CHF than CHB and Matthews had as much ground level skill and strength, he didn't have the speed or spring.

There would be a number of players that people could argue were better than Ablett in one or more areas of the game, but as a complete package, he was supreme.

[woods_gun]

ablett was naturally talented but im alot better in all aspects of football i truly am a cut above
peace homies.


MATTTTTTTTTT DAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMOOOOOOONNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!!