R13: Port v Richmond review

[Macca19]

Ah well, same shit different week. What a shitty year.

In the end im glad we didnt win, as it would have simply glossed over a number of important issues facing our side at the moment.

We lack intensity and attack on the ball. Numerous times this year weve come out of half time flat as a tack, and that 15 minutes in the end what cost us the game. We seriously lack attack at the ball though. Too many players slow down or dont attack the contest and wait for their opponent to grab the ball. 7 or 8 players shirked the issue quite a few times today and its not good enough. Couple of times it cost us goals.

Our defensive zone, and midfield zone is shit. Simply shit. More holes than a colander. We are as useful as witches hats at times. Theres no point playing a zone if all the players do is stand still. So many loose players all the time. To allow them with 4 minutes left to take about 12 uncontested marks in a row just isnt good enough.

Our midfield again was given an absolute pantsing. Absolute pantsing. Again our clearances were way down, we looked sluggish as hell.

Our defence is similar to our zone, just not good enough. To allow two players, who in all fairness arent stars, to kick 11 goals between them isnt good enough.

Our forward line lacked a tall target (gee I wonder why :rolleyes: .) and had too many players unwilling to chase.

Again its just these lapses of concentration that kill us. In the first quarter they kicked 3 goals in about 45 seconds of gameplay. In the second quarter the same thing happened. In the third quarter they kicked 3 goals in 3 minutes to start the quarter. Every week we seem to bust our balls trying to kick goals and we just leak goals so easily...mostly from midfield.

The crowd...dunno if that was 20k. Could have heard an ant fart for most of the day.

A number of players just not good enough.

Would be nice to say to bring on the kids, but the sad thing is, there arent many players playing decent footy in the SANFL either.

The whole club needs to have a look at itself from the top down. Coaches, leadership group, players, off field, everyone.

And last of all...this is no honourable loss.

POTY Votes:
Boak - Decent but nothing special. Couple of decent moments but some cringeworthy moments as well

Brogan - great leadership all over the ground. That mark at the start of the last backing into that pack was top stuff. Played very well today.

P Burgoyne - I thought he was decent enough for the first three quarters, but he shirked the issue once or twice and ended up pulling a hammy I think. Good to see him get more midfield time.

S Burgoyne - Decent last quarter. Terrible everything else. Any negative adjectives you can find can be thrown his way. Terrible lack of effort and heart. Hes either gotta find a way to beat attention or hes gotta be put on the trade table so we can find someone that can.

Carlile - Spent tons of time on the bench. Started on Hughes but was moved off him at 1/4 time. One of his lesser games of the year.

Cassisi - Tried hard, threw himself in and was one of the only smalls to consistently win the ball.

Chaplin - Dont know what to think of his game really. Spent time on Richardson and Riewoldt and spent time loose as well. Could have done more.

C Cornes - Hurt his ankle and spent considerable time off the ground. Didnt have any impact when he went back on. Maybe time to put him to surgery

K Cornes - Though he did the job on Deledio, its getting rather frustrating seeing our best midfielder spent 70% of the game in either a forward or back pocket. We really needed him in the guts today and when he went there in the last quarter we started getting it out a bit more.

Ebert - meh. Zero defensive pressure and zero presence. Slow as a snail.

Gray - Again, some great work in the middle in when he went in there. Great hands.

Lade - Again we were thumped when he was in the ruck. Time to bring in Deluca and give Lade a couple of weeks rest...hes just not useful.

Logan - One of the only players to throw himself in with no care about himself. Give him and Brogan the best team men award now.

Lower - Better than last week. Seems to be playing the niggler role but I thought he was quite useful. Was interesting to see him play in the centre for about 30-40 minutes of the game.

Motlop - 6 goals but there was a moment in the last quarter where he didnt get a free so he spent 10 seconds punching the ground whilst his teammate ran up ground. not ____ing good enough daniel. Still, was our only target up forward all day.

Pearce - Has to attack the ball harder. Too many times he waits for something else to happen before he makes a move.

Pettigrew - Worst game from a defender ive ever seen at AFL level. Had at least 8 goals kicked on him and for most of the day stood still with his hands on his hips looking like he didnt care. In all seriousness he should give his match payment to charity.

Rodan - Got himself into trouble a bit but at least tried to create and run.

Salopek - Might be troubled by an injury. Spent tons of time on the bench, most of it on the bike.

Thomas - Just about the best game hes played for us I thought. Added toughness around the ball and used it fairly well.

Tredrea - Did very well considering he was our only tall target all day. Needed support.

Wilson - Thought he had a good first quarter but struggled after half time.

POTY Votes:
10
9
8 - Brogan
7 - Logan
6 - Cassisi, Motlop, Tredrea, Thomas
5 - K Cornes, Gray, Rodan
4 - Lower
3 - Boak, Pearce
2 - P Burgoyne, Chaplin, Salopek, Wilson
1 - S Burgoyne, Carlile, Ebert, Lade
0 - C Cornes
-5 - Pettigrew

[Carnport]

Ah well, same shit different week. What a shitty year.

In the end im glad we didnt win, as it would have simply glossed over a number of important issues facing our side at the moment.

I agree 100%. We do not need to believe that we are in contention this year. We aren't.

[MotlopRules]

Love your reviews Macca.

It makes me weep. Maybe you should post this to all the players.....?

[*PAF]

There was one stage when Logan, Thomas and Lower were all going towards a play at the same time. You knew that no matter what Richmond were not going to waltz in there and get the ball easy. Geesh it felt good.

Add Williams, Stewart and Thomson to that mix Mark, piss off the lazy ones. :thumbsu:

[*PAF]

...
POTY Votes:
10
9
8 - Brogan
7 - Logan
6 - Cassisi, Motlop, Tredrea, Thomas
5 - K Cornes, Gray, Rodan
4 - Lower
3 - Boak, Pearce
2 - P Burgoyne, Chaplin, Salopek, Wilson
1 - S Burgoyne, Carlile, Ebert, Lade
0 - C Cornes
-5 - Pettigrew
Agree with Pettigrew, but thought Ebert, JB, Lade and Boak should all have Zippos today. PB was only marginally better.

[dyertribe]

Thought Tredders was horribly misused, especially in the last quarter. Why is he lining up on a flank forced to lead wide when Motlop is one out in the square with Moore and Bowden all over him?

It was especially grating with the last gasp F50 entry - Motlop swamped by black and gold guernseys in the hot spot, with no tall timber whatsoever there to pluck one and steal the match.

[Ported]

There was a moment in the first quarter where it looked like Pettigrew put his hands up to smother a goal, then shirked away from it to protect himself from the ball. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it just looked deceiving, because if an AFL footballer were to do that, they should probably never play again...

[Redline]

Good to see Thomas and Lower make good contributions today, both tackled hard and got some clearances. I'd love to know how often they gave it to each other.

Best game I have see Logan play for Port, I thought he was really good.

[Porthos]

Every fixable problem with this side says to me that its time for a new coach.

The players are playing like they want it; the team strategy is crying out for it, and I don't reckon Choco has too many ardent supporters right now that actually go to games.

[hereselmo1]

I agree Macca. It was a blessing in disguise.

Now we can finally admit that we arent good enough, our game plan isnt good enough and our efforts and workrate arent good enough.

Now maybe Mark will send a signal to the lazy/soft players that if they play like that they wont get a game for port adelaide (looking at you sean if it is good enough for Nick Dal Santo it is good you).

I think Lower, Thomas, Cassissi and Brogan were all excellent today. A couple of Logans attacks on the ball were brilliant too. If only our more skilled players put in that sort of effort.

I want to see Thomson, Farmer, Deluca and Cockshell given a go ASAP. Stewart will come back in.

We shouldnt waste our time playing Lonie et. al. again. We know what they offer and it is not good enough.

[dyertribe]

Every fixable problem with this side says to me that its time for a new coach.

The players are playing like they want it; the team strategy is crying out for it, and I don't reckon Choco has too many ardent supporters right now that actually go to games.

Just before three quarter time I said, "what's the bet he takes them over to the outer?"

If that's the best he can muster, 5 goals down against Richmond at home, we're in huuuuuuuge trouble.

[gopower]

Am I alone in thinking that Peter Burgoyne had probably his worst game ever tonight? Was absolutely shocking.

And Boak wasn't too bad, doesn't deserve the criticism that some people are giving him. Plus he showed that unlike the rest of our team he can take pressure with his brilliant last quarter goal from the pocket. If everyone in our team tried as hard as Tom Logan, we would've smashed the Tigers by about 20 goals tonight.

[erical]

S.Burgoyne as a trade you say?
Two years ago you would have been crucified.Now I don't think Shaun would be worth a hell of a lot.Hid reputation of being the next superstar has long gone down the drain.
We(Port) are in big trouble.
Maybe we need a "REVOLUTION"?Starting with the coach and about 8 senior players.

[gbear]

.
We(Port) are in big trouble.
Maybe we need a "REVOLUTION"?Starting with the coach and about 8 senior players.

Perhaps a few new assistant coaches as well as they are predominantly all hacks

[Puddy]

We shouldn't drop Logan for the rest of the year. I was pretty happy with Pearce's performance as well, he was one of our better midfielders.

[eathb]

in the press conference, choco finally admitted that port won't be making the finals and that he'll play the kids.

06 here we go!

[dyertribe]

06 here we go!

... and we will look forward to that.

[Eddie Woloschek]

Every fixable problem with this side says to me that its time for a new coach.

The players are playing like they want it; the team strategy is crying out for it, and I don't reckon Choco has too many ardent supporters right now that actually go to games.

One of Branch Rickey's maxims was "it's better to trade a player a year too early than a year too late." Connie Mack was once asked why his struggling team had traded its best player and he responded "we can finish last with him, so we can finish last without him."

AFL teams don't have the same transaction flexibility. But then clubs can control some of their personnel, especially the coaching staff.

So do we give the coach an extension? Could we be much worse with Freddie (or even Georgina) McGuinness at the helm?

But let's not be premature. The coach's inside knowledge of Richo helped restrict him today to 17 disposals, 10 marks, 3 goals today and I'm sure that same deep understanding will shut down Cooney and some of the other Dream Teamers next weekend.

[Porthos]

I guess now we find out who will be first against the wall when the revolution comes.

http://www.nowuckas.com/revolution.jpg

[hereselmo1]

Porthos I go to every game and I am a Chocco supporter. I think he needs to do better but I still think he is the man for the job.

I agree that Peirce played better today. I wouldnt probably not have selected him today but having seen that increased effort (a few good chases and tackles) I would keep him in.

BTW as I predicted pre game our forward line was too short and after we kicked the first couple of goals they put a couple back and blocked our space and without a tall we had no answer.

Did anyone else hear Francou's criticism of Tredders leadership on radio? I thought it was a bit of a cheap shot and unwarranted, is there some bad blood between those two?

[Porthos]

So do we give the coach an extension? Could we be much worse with Freddie (or even Georgina) McGuinness at the helm?Now is probably the only time in the last ten years that there have been any prospective AFL coaches with enough of a Port background to get support but enough of a non-Port background to be able to be objective. Hardwick and Buckley.

Discuss

[Santos L Helper]

Now is probably the only time in the last ten years that there have been any prospective AFL coaches with enough of a Port background to get support but enough of a non-Port background to be able to be objective. Hardwick and Buckley.

Discuss

Both wil be scooped up while we sit on our hands.

[gbear]

Now is probably the only time in the last ten years that there have been any prospective AFL coaches with enough of a Port background to get support but enough of a non-Port background to be able to be objective. Hardwick and Buckley.

Discuss


Hardwick yes. Buckley as an assistant yes, but not as a senior coach as is too green atm

[dyertribe]

Did anyone else hear Francou's criticism of Tredders leadership on radio? I thought it was a bit of a cheap shot and unwarranted, is there some bad blood between those two?

I thought some of it was valid - ie, why was Brogan addressing the players at 3QT last week and where was Tredders when Stewart got injured and there was that lull of play against Carlton - but as a player, he is kicking arse under the circumstances.

Kicking goals, giving goals, providing both an avenue and outlet to goal.

As the woman who rang in later to protest argued, there's only so much Tredders can do.

He's the only tall forward option and has been all year (Westhoff playing the tall small flanker role) and the midfield's been cold as snowman shit for weeks.

[relapse]

Every fixable problem with this side says to me that its time for a new coach.

The players are playing like they want it; the team strategy is crying out for it, and I don't reckon Choco has too many ardent supporters right now that actually go to games.

Josh Francou said on the radio after Motlop's goal early in the last quarter that there was nothing from the power players except for a pat on his hand by Tredders. Said the side had no spirit or belief and were already playing like they lost already and besides Brogan there didnt seem to be any passion or leadership
for any other players.

[Ford Fairlane]

Just before three quarter time I said, "what's the bet he takes them over to the outer?"

If that's the best he can muster, 5 goals down against Richmond at home, we're in huuuuuuuge trouble.

The sad thing was when they did come over there was a fair bit of booing. Not good, but there's a fair bit of frustration with those that still turned up today.

[Ford Fairlane]

in the press conference, choco finally admitted that port won't be making the finals and that he'll play the kids.



Brogan beat him to it in a post-match dressing room interview.

[Port85]

I thought some of it was valid - ie, why was Brogan addressing the players at 3QT last week and where was Tredders when Stewart got injured and there was that lull of play against Carlton - but as a player, he is kicking arse under the circumstances.

Kicking goals, giving goals, providing both an avenue and outlet to goal.

As the woman who rang in later to protest argued, there's only so much Tredders can do.

He's the only tall forward option and has been all year (Westhoff playing the tall small flanker role) and the midfield's been cold as snowman shit for weeks.

Playing wise as a captain i think tredders leads by example quite well.

not nearly enough verbal encouragement (see brogan) for a captain, body language was really poor today from warren. Hands on hips, staring blankly upfield at times... surely not as inspiring as either angry body language or encouragement...

I think this has been Chads role in the past but currently Chad has bigger things to worry about, so is not as prominent.

[240volt]

Up goes the white flag at just over the halfway mark of the year,so how low can we finish? is that what we have to look forward to untill the end of the year? Time for the club to see what everyone else see's, we need a new direction and that means a new coach.This needs to be done now.....yes right now, put in a standby coach till the end of the year or expect long term suffering.

[Porthos]

The sad thing was when they did come over there was a fair bit of booing. Not good, but there's a fair bit of frustration with those that still turned up today.Yeah I thought it was hilarious when Choco tried to take the team over to the outer. The players weren't beaten, they played with zero heart, and they did it from the first bounce. It was a pathetic performance and if anyone is doing a votes thread this week, the votes should be to 5 of the Port fans that bothered to show up to the game.

I started a list of things that would have been less of a waste of an afternoon at quarter time. These included alphabetizing my CD collection, unpacking boxes in the back shed to sort them better and repacking them, and reading the Sunday Mail.

[dyertribe]

Time for the club to see what everyone else see's, we need a new direction and that means a new coach.This needs to be done now.....yes right now, put in a standby coach till the end of the year or expect long term suffering.

I'll start scouring the Altona tip for that 'PETER ROHDE OUR MASTERMIND' banner.

[Ford Fairlane]

Yeah I thought it was hilarious when Choco tried to take the team over to the outer. The players weren't beaten, they played with zero heart, and they did it from the first bounce. It was a pathetic performance and if anyone is doing a votes thread this week, the votes should be to 5 of the Port fans that bothered to show up to the game.

I started a list of things that would have been less of a waste of an afternoon at quarter time. These included alphabetizing my CD collection, unpacking boxes in the back shed to sort them better and repacking them, and reading the Sunday Mail.

The lack of any heart or urgency save for say the last 10 minutes was so disturbing. In the end any changes really look like deckchairs on the Titanic.

Choco's just about done a Robert Shaw this year. He's changed gameplan mid-stream and the players seem utterly lost.

[Porthos]

Yeah, no he hasn't - gameplan is much the same. What he's been doing is getting the side to win games the bad way, which is by not putting in a structure but being instead extremely unpredictable, which means the entire thing is built on run and spirit.

This is what we did in 2006, its what we did last year, its what we've done this year - its just there is no run and no spirit, so it all falls in a heap.

[dyertribe]

The sad thing was when they did come over there was a fair bit of booing. Not good, but there's a fair bit of frustration with those that still turned up today.

Yeah, lulz and apathy up our end.

Reeked of desperation and was nothing more than embarrassing, which is just about par for the course these days, unfortunately.

[Ford Fairlane]

My take on it is that he's preached fast exciting running high scoring football for about 18 months. Now he's started talking up contested footy, one on ones and some 'unsociable football' - and this being carried on by the assistants - and there's too many players there simply not equipped for it, and not prepared for it. We looked our best in the game when we tried to just run and gun. But we're too easily opened up on any turnover.

[P.A.F.C]

The whole ____ing game we hugged the wing and it just didn't work. Gray needed to be in the midfield more. Got put in for parts of the last quarter and got a great clearance straight away.

[P.A.F.C]

My take on it is that he's preached fast exciting running high scoring football for about 18 months. Now he's started talking up contested footy, one on ones and some 'unsociable football' - and this being carried on by the assistants - and there's too many players there simply not equipped for it, and not prepared for it. We looked our best in the game when we tried to just run and gun. But we're too easily opened up on any turnover.
Our best game of the season has been the Swans game. We're not totally incapable of playing contested football or wet weather football as shown by some games last year but at the moment, the problems go far beyond the directive sent out by the coach. Though i'm amazed that we've resorted to this unsociable football stuff when there was a perfectly good example to how to play from this year.

[Forzaport]

I thought some of it was valid - ie, why was Brogan addressing the players at 3QT last week and where was Tredders when Stewart got injured and there was that lull of play against Carlton - but as a player, he is kicking arse under the circumstances.

Kicking goals, giving goals, providing both an avenue and outlet to goal.

As the woman who rang in later to protest argued, there's only so much Tredders can do.

He's the only tall forward option and has been all year (Westhoff playing the tall small flanker role) and the midfield's been cold as snowman shit for weeks.

Kudos to the woman that phoned. I think alison was her name, put it right to francou and made some very good points. Francou should be ashamed of himself for he said about tredders. Can't argue that there are leadership issues at the club, but fair go! Tredders is a champion and played his heart out today.

[Burninglevi]

i actually liked the fact we played on at all costs today. if we actually stuck a couple of talls down there we may be in for someting decent. Our defense was absolutely shite though. we were beaten in one on ones and in contested marks down there so badly. Such a pathetic effort by all players involved.

[240volt]

I'll start scouring the Altona tip for that 'PETER ROHDE OUR MASTERMIND' banner.What's jack doing for the next couple of months?:p

[1870 Proud]

There was a moment in the first quarter where it looked like Pettigrew put his hands up to smother a goal, then shirked away from it to protect himself from the ball. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it just looked deceiving, because if an AFL footballer were to do that, they should probably never play again...

Too right he did, I saw that also when he pulled that little girlie face..:confused: If he and Thurstans are still here next year i'll be mighty p'd off.

[hereselmo1]

What's jack doing for the next couple of months?:p

Lol, can you imagine it. FFS Mark stop trying to be so clever, the games not that hard. Put a big bloke at FF, tell your players to get the bloody thing, then kick it to the big bloke!

[Eddie Woloschek]

My take on it is that he's preached fast exciting running high scoring football for about 18 months. Now he's started talking up contested footy, one on ones and some 'unsociable football' - and this being carried on by the assistants - and there's too many players there simply not equipped for it, and not prepared for it. We looked our best in the game when we tried to just run and gun. But we're too easily opened up on any turnover.

It's all still on the Playstation. I bet he surprised Bomber Thompson last week and bamboozled Terry Wallace today. He's still winning.

[Eddie Woloschek]

The whole ____ing game we hugged the wing and it just didn't work. Gray needed to be in the midfield more. Got put in for parts of the last quarter and got a great clearance straight away.

We love the boundary line. We always attack through Row 7, so why waste time going down the guts?

[FishingRick04]

There was a moment in the first quarter where it looked like Pettigrew put his hands up to smother a goal, then shirked away from it to protect himself from the ball. I'm going to give him the benefit of the doubt and say it just looked deceiving, because if an AFL footballer were to do that, they should probably never play again...

I saw it on TV & he did.

[hereselmo1]

Gee I am a Pettigrew fan but that sounds ordinary, footage anyone?

[Killer Power]

Choco's just about done a Robert Shaw this year. He's changed gameplan mid-stream and the players seem utterly lost.

Utterly lost or disengaged? Big difference between the two.

[dyertribe]

Kudos to the woman that phoned. I think alison was her name, put it right to francou and made some very good points. Francou should be ashamed of himself for he said about tredders. Can't argue that there are leadership issues at the club, but fair go! Tredders is a champion and played his heart out today.

You would've heard that WCE fan around that time who rang up saying we should relocate to West Sydney because "we're a disgrace to SA"?

Hope he's loving every minute of tonight's performance *sniff*.

[Ford Fairlane]

i actually liked the fact we played on at all costs today. if we actually stuck a couple of talls down there we may be in for someting decent. Our defense was absolutely shite though. we were beaten in one on ones and in contested marks down there so badly. Such a pathetic effort by all players involved.

Our play on football is generally awful. We hand ball to blokes standing still, to players with their back to play , guys running into packs or that are already surrounded. Then we turn it over and get goals kicked on us.

[Ford Fairlane]

Utterly lost or disengaged? Big difference between the two.

Maybe he's lost them and they're disengaged. Dunno. But you don't get any vibe out on the terraces from them anymore.

[Ford Fairlane]

It's all still on the Playstation. I bet he surprised Bomber Thompson last week and bamboozled Terry Wallace today. He's still winning.

I just watched Brisbane beat Adelaide and what does Leigh Matthews do when he loses a big goalkicking forward like Bradshaw? He goes and gets another one (Mitch Clark) and throws him forward. And he kicks 3 goals and generally makes a nuisance of himself. And do Brisbane work their butt off? You bet they do. Luke Power - fantastic player and he's about the size of a half brick with eyes, but he racks up 40 possessions because he won't quit. Jared Brennan who is tagged as a bit flaky goes on ball and has 30 hard earned possessions and takes a dozen marks. They were ahead of us 2001-03 and they are again. No Playstation footy there.

[TheFansOwnTheGame]

Kudos to the woman that phoned. I think alison was her name, put it right to francou and made some very good points. Francou should be ashamed of himself for he said about tredders. Can't argue that there are leadership issues at the club, but fair go! Tredders is a champion and played his heart out today.


Why Should Francou be Ashamed of himself?
He said Tredders As player was palying great football!
That Tredders was a great player!
He Said that Tredders was a great BLOKE!
He then Said that he Felt Tredders Leadeship Style was lacking when it came to verbally encouraging the other player and his use of Body Language. It all seem Pretty fair to me.
By putting Tredders above criticism and the refusal to acknowledge weakness in a certain area of a player or the team is the reason why Port Adelaide is where it is. Too much Denial. Confront the issues, Acknowlege them and then put a plan in place to rectify them. No more Denial and No one is above constructive criticism. It's the only way forward!

[Ford Fairlane]

You would've heard that WCE fan around that time who rang up saying we should relocate to West Sydney because "we're a disgrace to SA"?

Hope he's loving every minute of tonight's performance *sniff*.

Was probably a crowie anyway. But yeah if he was a coaster, they are getting more soiled than his bed sheets. They probably won't listen to him at the nursing home, so he inflicts himself on radio listeners.

[Porthos]

I just watched Brisbane beat Adelaide and what does Leigh Matthews do when he loses a big goalkicking forward like Bradshaw? He goes and gets another one (Mitch Clark) and throws him forward.No! That can happen? You can create...and I'm working with concepts here, so excuse me if I use ugly language...but you can create, what is, I suppose, a `structure' or sorts, and rely on that `structure' as a means of ensuring that you don't have to reinvent your side any time there's a minor personnel change? I'm sorry, I'm having trouble believing that that can work - surely there's not enough precedent for such a thing; only 150 years of football.

[FishingRick04]

I just watched Brisbane beat Adelaide and what does Leigh Matthews do when he loses a big goalkicking forward like Bradshaw? He goes and gets another one (Mitch Clark) and throws him forward. And he kicks 3 goals and generally makes a nuisance of himself. And do Brisbane work their butt off? You bet they do. Luke Power - fantastic player and he's about the size of a half brick with eyes, but he racks up 40 possessions because he won't quit. Jared Brennan who is tagged as a bit flaky goes on ball and has 30 hard earned possessions and takes a dozen marks. They were ahead of us 2001-03 and they are again. No Playstation footy there.

So what you are saying is the game plan stays consistent regardless of the personnel? Sounds solid and easy to execute to me. Perhaps Choco doesn't have enough faith with his fringe players? Which also makes sense with us playing the same players nearly every game irrespective of the results.

[S.Patrol.G]

POTY Votes:
10
9
8 - Brogan
7 - Logan
6 - Cassisi, Motlop, Tredrea, Thomas
5 - K Cornes, Gray, Rodan
4 - Lower
3 - Boak, Pearce
2 - P Burgoyne, Chaplin, Salopek, Wilson
1 - S Burgoyne, Carlile, Ebert, Lade
0 - C Cornes
-5 - Pettigrew[/quote]

Look at all those senior players and where they rate! There's the problem!

Why continue to make Wilson, C. Cornes and Lade look like fools when clearly their bodies are not up to AFL football right now. I love what Lade and Wilbur have given to PAFC but Father Time stops for no-one.

Stewart has to come in for Wilbur and Deluca/Giles/Cockshell must come in for Lade. It has to be found out whether any of the three can play at this level.

Either P Burgoyne is fit to play on ball or not! The "quarterback" experiment needs to end. As for Shaun- either start playing honest, hard football or F**K off!....and one other thing Shaun.....I learned in Under 8's that when an opponent has the ball you tackle them, not bump. Soft option.

Too many blokes who won't play for the team. I'd love to see a stat for 1%ers! Most of those blokes wouldn't know what a F**king shepard looks like!

Poor. Disgraceful. Insipid. Un-Port Adelaide.

[Ford Fairlane]

No! That can happen? You can create...and I'm working with concepts here, so excuse me if I use ugly language...but you can create, what is, I suppose, a `structure' or sorts, and rely on that `structure' as a means of ensuring that you don't have to reinvent your side any time there's a minor personnel change? I'm sorry, I'm having trouble believing that that can work - surely there's not enough precedent for such a thing; only 150 years of football.

You want to believe. The truth is out there.

[KingCJ]

I think after the rubbish we've had to bare so far this year, some big changes need to be made, and very soon.
It's about time we get an honest coach who will actually take the blame for crap.

[Forzaport]

You would've heard that WCE fan around that time who rang up saying we should relocate to West Sydney because "we're a disgrace to SA"?

Hope he's loving every minute of tonight's performance *sniff*.

what a joker he was, some people that call 5aa really are nutters!

Why Should Francou be Ashamed of himself?
He said Tredders As player was palying great football!
That Tredders was a great player!
He Said that Tredders was a great BLOKE!
He then Said that he Felt Tredders Leadeship Style was lacking when it came to verbally encouraging the other player and his use of Body Language. It all seem Pretty fair to me.
By putting Tredders above criticism and the refusal to acknowledge weakness in a certain area of a player or the team is the reason why Port Adelaide is where it is. Too much Denial. Confront the issues, Acknowlege them and then put a plan in place to rectify them. No more Denial and No one is above constructive criticism. It's the only way forward!

Was this before the game or after the phonecall from alison?

There is no denying there are serious issues with the demeanour of several players and not just tredrea. I'm all for constructive criticism and people being honest about where we are at. I do however, have an issue with francou. In my view, i have found his opinion on all things port adelaide to be incredibly negative and to be honest, i felt it was always going to be a matter of time before someone phoned up and told him so. I honestly don't know if he genuinely believes some of the garbage he says or if he's doing it to be controversial to get a response from the public

[TheFansOwnTheGame]

what a joker he was, some people that call 5aa really are nutters!



Was this before the game or after the phonecall from alison?

There is no denying there are serious issues with the demeanour of several players and not just tredrea. I'm all for constructive criticism and people being honest about where we are at. I do however, have an issue with francou. In my view, i have found his opinion on all things port adelaide to be incredibly negative and to be honest, i felt it was always going to be a matter of time before someone phoned up and told him so. I honestly don't know if he genuinely believes some of the garbage he says or if he's doing it to be controversial to get a response from the public



This was after the game. He said it before the phone call which promted allisons call and clarified after the phone call from Allison.

What i don't get is why all the focus is on the criticism he gave about Tredders. He actually gave him more positives than negatives.

I don't agree with all the things Francou says, but what i do respect about Francou is every time he criticizes he always offers an alternative. I think he commentates like he played.ANGRY! Sometimes he sounds so frustrated talking about what he is watching that he probably is not as diplomatic as one might be when stating his view. I honestly like to believe and do believe he has the clubs best interest's at heart.

[PJ Power]

Re Brisbane, pretty sure they played both Henderson and Clark in Bradshaw's absence. Kudos to Matthews. We have mini-popeye come in for the stringbean.

[PAFCsince1870]

Re Brisbane, pretty sure they played both Henderson and Clark in Bradshaw's absence. Kudos to Matthews. We have mini-popeye come in for the stringbean.

Clark would have come in for Leuenberger to help Charman in the ruck, and Henderson came in and had no impact at all.

Brisbane won because they have half a team of Logan's, and throw their body in at every opportunity.

[dyertribe]

Brisbane won because they have half a team of Logan's, and throw their body in at every opportunity.

That was what began to really shit me today.

A pack forms and there's a hot contested footy to be won, and we had 3-4 supposed A-Graders standing off back on their heels waiting for the handball receive many many times, with only Logan, Lower, Thomas and Cassisi seemingly willing to actually fight and win the ball in the first instance.

Ever since Chocolate's GF week mindgames epic fail, the team seems to have turned from a hungry young side prepared to run through walls for one another, to a phalanx of phrontrunners prepared to sail down King William on one of Mike's new trams. Ding ding! All aboard!

From blue collar rolled-up sleeves to white-shoed sailing at West Lakes within 6 months.

[Porthos]

Actually, our lack of shepherding and ballgetter protection was quite evident before the grand final.

[PAFCsince1870]

That was what began to really shit me today.

A pack forms and there's a hot contested footy to be won, and we had 3-4 supposed A-Graders standing off back on their heels waiting for the handball receive many many times, with only Logan, Lower, Thomas and Cassisi seemingly willing to actually fight and win the ball in the first instance.

Ever since Chocolate's GF week mindgames epic fail, the team seems to have turned from a hungry young side prepared to run through walls for one another, to a phalanx of phrontrunners prepared to sail down King William on one of Mike's new trams. Ding ding! All aboard!

From blue collar rolled-up sleeves to white-shoed sailing at West Lakes within 6 months.

Yep, we're soft as butter, and it's the senior players who are to blame.

Watching Brisbane win made me feel slightly better, but watching how they won made me feel sick and depressed.

As pointed out by Ford, Luke Power, who is the size of a boy playing a man's game, throws himself in and is not afraid of working his arse off.

Maybe we need a hard coach, someone like Hardwick, who will weed this weakness out of midfield, even if it means we suffer some short-term pain.

Throw Logan, Thomas, Thomson and Lower in there. Get Stewart and Gray fit enough to play key roles in the middle in 2009.

I just don't think Choco is the man to do it.

[Eddie Woloschek]

I just don't think Choco is the man to do it.

The grand irony of all this is that we lack players with hearts bigger than their skills, players who go hard at the ball and the man, players who don't look that talented but get the job done. Players like Choco was!

Choco has revealed much about his personality with the players he has chosen in drafts, trades and on Saturdays. He likes and falls in love with players that aren't like he was. Lonie. Pearce. Boak. Krakouer. Burgoynes. Westhoff. Motlop.

We let Guerra and Gilham and Patfull and Pickett go. Thurstans is still with us.

[PJ Power]

The grand irony of all this is that we lack players with hearts bigger than their skills, players who go hard at the ball and the man, players who don't look that talented but get the job done. Players like Choco was!

Choco has revealed much about his personality with the players he has chosen in drafts, trades and on Saturdays. He likes and falls in love with players that aren't like he was. Lonie. Pearce. Boak. Krakouer. Burgoynes. Westhoff. Motlop.


I've thought this was ironic for a very long time.

[King_Tredrea]

IMO, as people have previously stated, Warren is playing great footy given the circumstances. as a captain, however....

wheres the rev ups? wheres the passion and leadership, the inspiration??????? i love the guy, but these attributes are basically non-existant when we need them most. fire the ____ up Tredders

[Macca19]

Am I alone in thinking that Peter Burgoyne had probably his worst game ever tonight? Was absolutely shocking.

And Boak wasn't too bad, doesn't deserve the criticism that some people are giving him. Plus he showed that unlike the rest of our team he can take pressure with his brilliant last quarter goal from the pocket. If everyone in our team tried as hard as Tom Logan, we would've smashed the Tigers by about 20 goals tonight.

Boak was a bit too timid when he had to go in hard.

I actually thought Peter wasnt too bad. Not as many clangers as usual and only got caught once.

There was one moment in the last where he refused to take possession of the ball and he shirked the contest...which everyone on the members wing in front of me groaned and gave him plenty for his 'effort', but he came off the ground straight after under a bit of pain so im half willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for that.

[Power21]

Pettigrew isn't a defenders a-hole.

Get him up forward (kangaroos final ring any bells) or on the wing, he can be the roaming half-forward, get Westhoff back closer to goal, roaming a bit but doing his best work closer to goal.

Oh well, time to sort out what's what i guess.

New coach? I'm not sure the fix is that easy, i think it is playing personnel as much as coaching.

[Macca19]

Did anyone else hear Francou's criticism of Tredders leadership on radio? I thought it was a bit of a cheap shot and unwarranted, is there some bad blood between those two?

He had quite a bit to say about a couple of topics. Also said our squad is mentally soft as well.

As for the Tredrea bit, I didnt agree with it. Maybe Francou needs to remember back to 01-04 when Warren was at his physical peak. I thought it was a bit harsh.

[Macca19]

Up goes the white flag at just over the halfway mark of the year,so how low can we finish? is that what we have to look forward to untill the end of the year?

If we 'tank' and try and finish as low as we can, then youll see crowds of about 12k late in the year.

Realistically, I had pencilled in the last two home games as wins. In all fairness to Carlton and Richmond, youve just got to beat those teams at home.

Having a look in the paper today at our schedule, maybe its the optimist in me, but i see us around 9 wins for the year.

The way we are playing though, we'll end up on 5 or 6

[drcollossimo]

It's hard to say if we include youth and they show something we might end up for 8 or 9 wins, if we include youth and they are thrown to the sword by weak and misguided leadership then apart from ruining the young blokes we will barely scratch together another 2 or 3 wins!

[Macca19]

Why Should Francou be Ashamed of himself?
He said Tredders As player was palying great football!
That Tredders was a great player!
He Said that Tredders was a great BLOKE!
He then Said that he Felt Tredders Leadeship Style was lacking when it came to verbally encouraging the other player and his use of Body Language. It all seem Pretty fair to me.
By putting Tredders above criticism and the refusal to acknowledge weakness in a certain area of a player or the team is the reason why Port Adelaide is where it is. Too much Denial. Confront the issues, Acknowlege them and then put a plan in place to rectify them. No more Denial and No one is above constructive criticism. It's the only way forward!

In no way did he just say that Tredrea doesnt verbally encourage his teammates enough. He was a hell of a lot harsher than that. Numerous times he stated that:
1) At crucial times, Tredrea doesnt do anything to push his team over the line
2) The players dont play for him like they played for Primus
3) That Tredrea doesnt bring his teammates into the game.

He was trying to be controversial but just came across as a right ____er.

He mentioned numerous times that the players played for Primus because they knew that at a crucial time he would demand the ball, bust through a pack and get it forward. He said that with Primus, he would involve his teammates a lot and get them involved in the game.

What he failed to mention was that Primus would get players into the game because the guy couldnt kick to save himself so always looked for the handball all time. He failed to mention that Primus' finals record with us was average at best. He failed to mention that under Primus' leadership, we faltered at the most crucial times in the season three times.

To say that Tredrea doesnt bring teammates into the game is just ____ing ridiculous. He led goal assists for 3 seasons and yesterday kicked 2 goals and had 3 goal assists.

Sure Tredreas verbal enoucragement and probably body language as well could easily be improved and as Captain hes probably got to do more than that. And I would agree that Primus was a better Captain than Tredrea, but Francous main points yesterday were ridiculous and smacked of disrespect.

[King_Tredrea]

Sure Tredreas verbal enoucragement and probably body language as well could easily be improved and as Captain hes probably got to do more than that. And I would agree that Primus was a better Captain than Tredrea, but Francous main points yesterday were ridiculous and smacked of disrespect.

agreed, but there is still merit to what he is saying, and Tredders MUST lift in this area

[hereselmo1]

In no way did he just say that Tredrea doesnt verbally encourage his teammates enough. He was a hell of a lot harsher than that. Numerous times he stated that:
1) At crucial times, Tredrea doesnt do anything to push his team over the line
2) The players dont play for him like they played for Primus
3) That Tredrea doesnt bring his teammates into the game.

He was trying to be controversial but just came across as a right ____er.

He mentioned numerous times that the players played for Primus because they knew that at a crucial time he would demand the ball, bust through a pack and get it forward. He said that with Primus, he would involve his teammates a lot and get them involved in the game.

What he failed to mention was that Primus would get players into the game because the guy couldnt kick to save himself so always looked for the handball all time. He failed to mention that Primus' finals record with us was average at best. He failed to mention that under Primus' leadership, we faltered at the most crucial times in the season three times.

To say that Tredrea doesnt bring teammates into the game is just ____ing ridiculous. He led goal assists for 3 seasons and yesterday kicked 2 goals and had 3 goal assists.

Sure Tredreas verbal enoucragement and probably body language as well could easily be improved and as Captain hes probably got to do more than that. And I would agree that Primus was a better Captain than Tredrea, but Francous main points yesterday were ridiculous and smacked of disrespect.

Yeah that was exactly my take on it Macca.

[wallumi]

I actually thought Peter wasnt too bad. Not as many clangers as usual and only got caught once.

I agree, and have done throughout this spate of recently fashionable Senior Burger bashing.

Not long after he was caught badly he made another play where he ran forward, reviewed his first decision, ran futher forward and then delivered long and accurately to half forward.
The difference? He was sheparded in the second example. And someone presented up forward.

If he had been sheparded the first time, or even maybe advised of the chaser, he may well not have been caught as coldly as he was.

I'm not saying he is without imperfection but I think a lot of his notable 'errors' stem from him trying to be creative without any reliably adequate support.

Maybe the very same dynamic has worn Shaun down to a level of mental surrender. Other quality mids get a lot of blocking help from an intelligently structured midfield. Look at how Judd has recently begun to do so much better as the midfield around him has gelled into a cohesively balanced and functional unit. It's every man for themselves in the Power midfield. It totally and visibly sucks. Clearances come Port's direction out of individual skill and/or cumulative bumble. Cogent and securely structured progression from inside ball-winner to outside carrier at stoppages is painfully rare, as it is also painfully repetitious and productive in the gameplay of opponents.

It is arguable that Peter has always shown more gut-level determination than Shaun and can thus better persevere through repetitive event failure. Perhaps Peter's real fault is that he continues trying to execute the most creative option even though there is no rational probability of support and thus success.

It is very possible that the real fault lies with Choco telling and encouraging Peter to play as he does but not providing the surrounding conditions that will support it.

Interesting that Peter did so well in the Dream Team. Maybe his teammates that night brought some basic discipline to the game with them. It might be an interesting game to review from that perspective.

Similarly with the quality of his (and others) game last year. Pretty much the same personnel and basic skill levels were on the field last year when Peter (and others) looked very good. However being effective, particularly in the role Peter is being asked to play, requires a threshold of team function which is simply not present ATM.

Given the proven talent on the field, this lack is primarily a leadership issue. One which begins and ultimately ends with the coach - either in kudos, pressure for reform, or dismissal. It certainly isn't something Peter can be significantly blamed for causing or not fixing. Veteran shouldn't be expected to perform individual super-hero roles on a consistent basis.

If club management will not prioritise the effective address of this structural issue, maybe Peter should seriously consider a transfer to another club where an effective team structure and the consistent coaching of that structure might extend his career for a a few extra seasons.


There was one moment in the last where he refused to take possession of the ball and he shirked the contest...which everyone on the members wing in front of me groaned and gave him plenty for his 'effort', but he came off the ground straight after under a bit of pain so im half willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for that.

If I were Peter's age, with his hamstring experience, I would also shirk an incidental contest if my hammy had just gone twang. Especially if I knew, consciously or unconsciously, that the coach had neither idea nor likelihood of capitalising on my supreme sacrifice.

[Porthos]

While a lot of that about Peter is true, it is noticeable that its not only Peter who doesn't get shepherded for. My great frustration from last year was that it was just about ONLY Peter who got set up to clear the ball by teammates.

Choco making Peter the dedicated Heuskesesque loose ball receiver in defence is a key cog in what has made the current side as shit as it is.

[Sandola]

It's every man for themselves in the Power midfield. It totally and visibly sucks.

Terrific post, wallumi. You've done a good analysis of the lack of teamwork that's been so evident in our games this year, and a made a convincing argument for what's "wrong" with the Burgoynes (and probably a few others who aren't getting the support they need).

[wallumi]

While a lot of that about Peter is true, it is noticeable that its not only Peter who doesn't get shepherded for. My great frustration from last year was that it was just about ONLY Peter who got set up to clear the ball by teammates.

Choco making Peter the dedicated Heuskesesque loose ball receiver in defence is a key cog in what has made the current side as shit as it is.


I've got no reason to disagree with any of that. It remains the case though that is it Choco's role and responsiblity to fix it. Until he does Peter (and others) will continue to look like the problem when they are only the hapless (and publicly embarassed) expression of it.

Additionally, if they are aware of the contradictions and deficiencies at work in their instructed gameplay, that would be cumulatively morale sapping. If so, things will only get worse.

As a comparative measure, I wonder how Peter would go playing Mcleod's role at the Crows? Imagine if had the support to know where everyone was around him and that there would be someone ahead to aim at when he looked up?

Maybe this offers a clue as to why Choco so appreciates magical player skills. Possibly he understands at some gut level that it is the only thing that might augment his strategic autism into a winning product. Maybe just like his playing skills, his coaching is hard-working, spirited and tenacious but not inherently brilliant.

Or maybe he knows it is sublimely esoteric and incommunicable to sub-genius players.
Like, you know, you just know it - or you don't. Why don't they just get it? :confused:.
It must be them.

[Revolution]

Did anyone else hear Francou's criticism of Tredders leadership on radio? I thought it was a bit of a cheap shot and unwarranted, is there some bad blood between those two?


Edit: Nevermind, already read follow ups to the thread...

[portentous]

Someone should ring up and tell Josh Francou to bring his footy boots to the next game he's at and show some of these blokes how to get a hard ball and put their body on the line for the side.

Josh wasn't always pretty,but hell you always knew that he'd give 100% for the side, regardless of his own safety or the state of the match.

[Forzaport]

Interesting that Peter did so well in the Dream Team. Maybe his teammates that night brought some basic discipline to the game with them. It might be an interesting game to review from that perspective.

Excellent post. Totally agree. The players aren't supporting each other as much as they should.

The only thing i'd like to add is that in the dream team game, there wasn't the same level of pressure and players were allowed to play as they pleased. Peter showed us that he knows how to find the ball and more importantly he knows where to kick it.

I thought he was going ok on saturday, so it would be typical that a player who is starting to show some form to get injured.

Getting back to players supporting one another, i saw a great example of it on saturday. Lade got the ball on the wing and was running up the ground. He was being chased down by a richmond player and i reckon pearce ran a good 60-70m to get to lade to provide the shepard for him. As much as i'm happy to see that, i often ask myself why it doesn't happen more often!

[wallumi]

Getting back to players supporting one another, i saw a great example of it on saturday. Lade got the ball on the wing and was running up the ground. He was being chased down by a richmond player and i reckon pearce ran a good 60-70m to get to lade to provide the shepard for him. As much as i'm happy to see that, i often ask myself why it doesn't happen more often!


A basic and essential game element applied with too little time left. This, and the underlying desire and desperation to execute it, was generally applied in the last 10 minutes. Another 2-5 minutes and we would have won that game. Why though did we only start doing all the right things when it was too late?

That we did proves the team both knows how to and is capable of it. That we waited until so critically and, as it proved to be, hopelessly late into the game and the season is what defies understanding.

[PowerKat]

The grand irony of all this is that we lack players with hearts bigger than their skills, players who go hard at the ball and the man, players who don't look that talented but get the job done. Players like Choco was!

Choco has revealed much about his personality with the players he has chosen in drafts, trades and on Saturdays. He likes and falls in love with players that aren't like he was. Lonie. Pearce. Boak. Krakouer. Burgoynes. Westhoff. Motlop.

We let Guerra and Gilham and Patfull and Pickett go. Thurstans is still with us.

Maybe (either consciously or subsonciously), Choco doesn't want to coach like his father, and/or he wants a gameplan he could not have executed, and to pick players that can do everything he couldn't??

[hereselmo1]

Maybe (either consciously or subsonciously), Choco doesn't want to coach like his father, and/or he wants a gameplan he could not have executed, and to pick players that can do everything he couldn't??

I have often wondered this. Perhaps it is because people always want what they dont have, i.e. curly haired girls always want to be straight and vice versa. Is chocco living out his dream of being an outside, glamor finisher vicariously through the team?

[TheFansOwnTheGame]

In no way did he just say that Tredrea doesnt verbally encourage his teammates enough. He was a hell of a lot harsher than that. Numerous times he stated that:
1) At crucial times, Tredrea doesnt do anything to push his team over the line
2) The players dont play for him like they played for Primus
3) That Tredrea doesnt bring his teammates into the game.

He was trying to be controversial but just came across as a right ____er.

He mentioned numerous times that the players played for Primus because they knew that at a crucial time he would demand the ball, bust through a pack and get it forward. He said that with Primus, he would involve his teammates a lot and get them involved in the game.

What he failed to mention was that Primus would get players into the game because the guy couldnt kick to save himself so always looked for the handball all time. He failed to mention that Primus' finals record with us was average at best. He failed to mention that under Primus' leadership, we faltered at the most crucial times in the season three times.

To say that Tredrea doesnt bring teammates into the game is just ____ing ridiculous. He led goal assists for 3 seasons and yesterday kicked 2 goals and had 3 goal assists.

Sure Tredreas verbal enoucragement and probably body language as well could easily be improved and as Captain hes probably got to do more than that. And I would agree that Primus was a better Captain than Tredrea, but Francous main points yesterday were ridiculous and smacked of disrespect.


So are you Saying Tredders is above Criticism ???

If Not how could the criticism be given in way that was respectful. Francou highlighted all Tredders Strengths

and as for

1) At crucial times, Tredrea doesn't do anything to push his team over the line
2) The players don't play for him like they played for Primus
3) That Tredrea doesn't bring his teammates into the game.

I would say all that is correct.

With point number 1 of course tredders wins us games. But when was the last time he stood up in the crucial closing stages and dragged the team across the line like a Judd,Voss, or Hird. He just does not do it.

This does not mean he is not the Clubs greatest player since joining the AFL. HE IS!

I believe Tredders is A captain who leads by example as Francou acknowledged. But the current playing Group around him need more than that.

When we won the Flag and Tredders was captain look who we had in the team, Hardwick, James, Picket, Carr. These guys were self starters.

This Group is not!

They need to be inspired... That takes us to a whole other topic of why their not self starters.

[PJ Power]

I didn't object to Francou's criticism of Tredders as much as others obviously have.

I struggle to recall more than 5 games when Tredrea stood up and clearly lifted the side deep into a match. Historically, his last quarter performances have not been the sort to turn the team around when our backs have been up against it.

Occasions when I clearly recall Tredrea playing a major role deep in matches when his teammates needed him:
1. WCE final last year
2. Last quarter heroics in loss to Bulldogs at TD last year
3. Showdown loss early 2006
4. Finals win against Essendon 2003

Even take the Prelim win over the Saints in 2004. Tredders was very good early in that game, but had preciousl little influence on proceedings in that all important last quarter, when Riewoldt and Wanganeen stamped their class on the match.

Maybe it's being far too harsh and not respectful of the wonderful career he's had. I'm not saying he hasn't been instrumental in many of our great wins. Rather, his ability to impose himself on a match when we have lost momentum, has not been his strongest quality. This year's fading away after halftime is not without precedent for Wazza.

He's still a champ. But does his captaincy inspire me? No.

[Hodges 153!]

Kudos to the woman that phoned. I think alison was her name, put it right to francou and made some very good points. Francou should be ashamed of himself for he said about tredders. Can't argue that there are leadership issues at the club, but fair go! Tredders is a champion and played his heart out today.

Hehehe...

That was Alison 'Hodges', my wife.

You may have heard little Hodgey throwing a sad in the background after having a stack....

Did Josh play under Warren's captaincy? If so, is his criticism "calling it as he sees it" as a commentator, or an opinion he carried while playing?

And if it is not good enough for Tredders to be a captain that leads by example, what was Josh's opinion of Gavin Wanganeen as captain?

[bringbackbucky]

Alastair Lynch won 3 premierships sitting in the goalsquare. Just a thought.

[Ford Fairlane]

Just on the Peter Burgoyne debate, Choco has found out the same thing as Craig is finding out with McLeod. Opposition coaches will not allow free reign to these players indefinitely. Now Choco should have worked that out fairly quickly seeing as he was one of the first coaches to tag HBFs. Even Macca is struggling of late, and I suspect in both their cases, Burgs and Macca might have lost that step of mercurial pace that could extricate them from difficulty. Add that to being sat on by one or even two players at times, and you see a diminished influence. Time for a new trick or better support acts.

Rooch provided a relatively in-depth stat analysis of P Burg's game:

Match time: 88 minutes (3 mins w/o an opponent)
Disposals: 14 (10 in defensive half)
Distance from kicks: 490m (only 60% retained)
Distance run (carried): 457m (only 65% retained)
Possessions: 16 (13 uncontested, 11 handball receives)
Tackles: 1
Inside 50: 2 (one for Motlop goal; one turnover)

[Forzaport]

Hehehe...

That was Alison 'Hodges', my wife.

You may have heard little Hodgey throwing a sad in the background after having a stack....

Did Josh play under Warren's captaincy? If so, is his criticism "calling it as he sees it" as a commentator, or an opinion he carried while playing?

And if it is not good enough for Tredders to be a captain that leads by example, what was Josh's opinion of Gavin Wanganeen as captain?

You married a great woman!

[Macca19]

I didn't object to Francou's criticism of Tredders as much as others obviously have.

I struggle to recall more than 5 games when Tredrea stood up and clearly lifted the side deep into a match. Historically, his last quarter performances have not been the sort to turn the team around when our backs have been up against it.

Occasions when I clearly recall Tredrea playing a major role deep in matches when his teammates needed him:
1. WCE final last year
2. Last quarter heroics in loss to Bulldogs at TD last year
3. Showdown loss early 2006
4. Finals win against Essendon 2003

I can remember 3-4 games that we ended up losing that Tredrea gave us half a chance of winning. The Geelong (Ben Graham goal) loss in 03, a loss to Essendon and Melbourne in Melbourne as well.

I agree that Tredders hasnt been a player to win us games in the last quarter, thats because most of the games we won have been on the back of Tredreas work in the first three quarters and the game hasnt had to be won in the last.

I cant recall too many games that Primus won for us in last quarters either.

[PJ Power]

I can remember 3-4 games that we ended up losing that Tredrea gave us half a chance of winning. The Geelong (Ben Graham goal) loss in 03, a loss to Essendon and Melbourne in Melbourne as well.

I agree that Tredders hasnt been a player to win us games in the last quarter, thats because most of the games we won have been on the back of Tredreas work in the first three quarters and the game hasnt had to be won in the last.

I cant recall too many games that Primus won for us in last quarters either.

That's fair Macca - and I agree wholeheartedly, that when you win 63% or whatever it is of matches, finding examples of matches you've lost where an individual player has stood up is often difficult.

The query I have over Tredders which in truth has been amplified this year, is over his "presence" late in matches.

I'd be interested in seeing career-long stats - not that they exist - as to his breakdown of goals in the respective quarters.

This has obviously been an issue this year, given the fact that at least 3/4 of his goals have come in the first halves (maybe more). However, I don't think it's new to his game.

[truebelievers]

Boak was a bit too timid when he had to go in hard.

I actually thought Peter wasnt too bad. Not as many clangers as usual and only got caught once.

There was one moment in the last where he refused to take possession of the ball and he shirked the contest...which everyone on the members wing in front of me groaned and gave him plenty for his 'effort', but he came off the ground straight after under a bit of pain so im half willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for that.

Yes I was one of those screaming at Peter to put an effort in. He was first to the ball but let it bounce in front of him and let his opponent take possession. I reckon there were only a couple of times that players actually ran at the ball with any sort of aggression to take possession. I felt terrible afterwards though as Peter could have jagged his hamstring - must admit I was wondering if it was just his pride that was hurt but it turned out no.

[Hodges 153!]

You married a great woman!
Another caller just raised the same topic.

She's pretty chuffed Cornsey just agreed with her and said her call had been "very good"!

:D

[Toots Hibbert]

Not a yelp from the supporters when Choco took the huddle to the eastern side at three quarter time. That was the official supporters verdict on a performance that lacked any credibility until Richmond incompetence gave the side a sniff of victory in the last quarter.

I saw the players running and chasing throughout the game but the big giveaway was the numerous times when a Port player forced an error there was always an extra Richmond player to pick up the loose ball. The players hearts were not in this and that goes back to the way the side is being coached. There's no escaping from that.

[wharfie_1870]

Not a yelp from the supporters when Choco took the huddle to the eastern side at three quarter time. .....I cringed when I saw what Choco was up to. Sadly it has become like so many hackneyed clichés in footy :(

I saw the players running and chasing throughout the game but the big giveaway was the numerous times when a Port player forced an error there was always an extra Richmond player to pick up the loose ball. ......One of the many things that annoyed me about the way we played in that game was our persistence with zoning off between two opposition players. The number of times Richmond brought the ball out of the back line easily because we had one player standing half way between two Richmond players yet putting pressure on neither. Often both of the Richmond players got a touch while our player was piggy in the middle.