Fitness and 'manning up'

[Power King]

How many times did you see richmond get uncontested marks yesterday, which killed us not only when they went forward, but in terms of them icing the clock too?

Now it was obvious that when they were icing the clock, the pressure was on, so I doubt laziness was a factor in the last quarter of the match, especially considering the effort our boys put in on the scoreboard.

This leads me to believe that the reason the richmond players were getting free too many times was because our players were stuffed.

Thoughts?

Is fitness a genuine issue?

[Ford Fairlane]

We've flogged this fitness horse a few times lately. For me it's not about fitness, but tactics and desire.

Our zoning is crap because we instinctively flood back behind the midfield and it allows teams free reign in the midfield to carry the ball uncontested up the ground, we have too many players not prepared to chase or simply unable to read the play and anticipate, our small forward set up is easy to run off because all teams know we have virtually no one up there who can take a contested mark so players are ready to peel off rather than be sucked into contests - in addition most of the time 1/3 of our forward line is hanging around in midfield or getting in the way in the backlines, our defence leaks like a sieve, one because most of our defenders can't actually defend and two, most of our on ballers are too lazy to work up and down the ground and provide support - and when support is there they have no idea what they're doing, and we can't win contested ball and clearances any more because that too is too much like hard work for our so-called elite players.

We are a shambles at the moment and it has little to do with fitness.

[Geoffa32]

No Heart

FFS you lost to Richmond, your players are better than that. When switched on and hungry.

[*PAF]

No.
If Ferguson was to pick a team of 11 Ronaldo's then surely he shouldn't whine when supporters tell him that his midfield and defense suck.
Fact is he doesn't do that but we do.

We even have a KPP forward and a running midfielder playing as a small backs to try and get more run out of defence. Surjan was also being picked based on his rebounding ability and that's the end of our "smalls".
That leaves the KPPs.
Toby was good at starting rebounds and has been praised for it at times in the past, Chaplin is a great defender that runs every time he can and Carlile is being encouraged to rebound.
Note, defenders are to defend first and rebound/attack later, not the other way around. :rolleyes:

Then there is the midfield.
Two taggers only one of which can extricate a ball (Dom)
Two running swoopers (JB and Rodan)
Outside runner in Pearce, and not sure what roles Boak and Sal have. Sal can defend Boak can not.
Then there is big bad Chad, defending instincts he has not.

We have trouble defending, sheparding, working for your team mates, doing the 1% etc? Well fk me, it doesn't take Noah Schitt Sherlock to work that one out now does it?

Yes there are Logan, Lower and Thomas but these 3 have not been a big part of our year, the above have.

[Jumbo]

No Heart

FFS you lost to Richmond, your players are better than that. When switched on and hungry.

But three minutes later (on bay 13) you stated our team is stacked with heartless frontrunners who wilt when things are tough (maybe true).
Q. as above are our players better than that or not?

[Black 18]

Our manning up consists of being within 5-10m :mad:, then jogging along behind the opposition player with our hands in the air pretending to guard the area. NO INTENT whatsoever.

[Black 18]

We've flogged this fitness horse a few times lately. For me it's not about fitness, but tactics and desire.

Our zoning is crap because we instinctively flood back behind the midfield and it allows teams free reign in the midfield to carry the ball uncontested up the ground, we have too many players not prepared to chase or simply unable to read the play and anticipate, our small forward set up is easy to run off because all teams know we have virtually no one up there who can take a contested mark so players are ready to peel off rather than be sucked into contests - in addition most of the time 1/3 of our forward line is hanging around in midfield or getting in the way in the backlines, our defence leaks like a sieve, one because most of our defenders can't actually defend and two, most of our on ballers are too lazy to work up and down the ground and provide support - and when support is there they have no idea what they're doing, and we can't win contested ball and clearances any more because that too is too much like hard work for our so-called elite players.

We are a shambles at the moment and it has little to do with fitness.

:thumbsu:

[Ford Fairlane]

But three minutes later (on bay 13) you stated our team is stacked with heartless frontrunners who wilt when things are tough (maybe true).
Q. as above are our players better than that or not?

Can we not bring the Bay 13 comments on here? People assume a different persona there. Just comment on what he's saying here.

[Geoffa32]

But three minutes later (on bay 13) you stated our team is stacked with heartless frontrunners who wilt when things are tough (maybe true).
Q. as above are our players better than that or not?
Its the same comment, said more politley here.

You do have a team of skillfull players, who when things are going well play brilliant footy, ie last year.

But when tested, by a lowly Richmond, fall apart. IMO its a mental thing. last quarter showed that once Richmond dropped off a small percnetage, you guys played all over them. Your players are better than that. They just need to believe it.

As for Bay13, to me that is where yo go to have a bit of fun. After all isnt that part of the fun of being a footy supporter?? You give it out, but you better expect to get it back. Like Monday mornings at the office with your workmates.

[hereselmo1]

To be fair at the end of the game we were stuffed. I didnt think it was a fitness issue though. It was a combination of a few injuries, hence tired players, a few youn guys like robbie gray/matt thomas who dont have that fitness base yet, and a few lazy players like shaun.

The real issue waqs the third quarter and the middle part of the first where we switched off and got ourselves into that position in the first place.

I couldnt agree more about our manning up though, we jog along "close" behind them, then when we realise they are going to kick the ball to our man we actualy put an effort in and it is too little too late.

[drcollossimo]

Its the same comment, said more politley here.

You do have a team of skillfull players, who when things are going well play brilliant footy, ie last year.

But when tested, by a lowly Richmond, fall apart. IMO its a mental thing. last quarter showed that once Richmond dropped off a small percnetage, you guys played all over them. Your players are better than that. They just need to believe it.

As for Bay13, to me that is where yo go to have a bit of fun. After all isnt that part of the fun of being a footy supporter?? You give it out, but you better expect to get it back. Like Monday mornings at the office with your workmates.

You know aside from the obvious point of a Crows fan commenting on Port issues i actually agree with Geoffa. It's easy to say our season is a shambles the coach isn't up to it and neither are his assistants and there's no doubt this gold pass system has got to go. But it was only what 3,4 four weeks ago we should have beaten Sydney here who are a genuine top four team, take out some over zealous umpiring after basset got smashed out of the showdown and we win that too. It's players attitude has been since the start of the year, why wouldn't you be lazy as a younger player when you see Shaun as club vice captain do it on a weekly basis?

If i was Adam Thomson (or another younger player like him i.e. Bentley) i would be ready to walk he busts his nut week in and out winning clearances for sturt while other players strut around as if their selection is unquestioned (you all know who i am talking about) and that sort of stuff leads to absolutely no team spirit in the place, players are playing for themselves and their wallets. I mean there is no way sydeny even the Crows, Kanga's and Collingwood have better lists than us but their team spirit and desire is so far in front of ours its embarassing!!!Mark can not change that all on his own the players and the leadership team are the ones to do that, Brogan was the ONLY one yesterday showing any emotion any desire when the season and game was on the line. One bloke and he only recently got brought into the leadership group we all want answers and our leadership group have em even if they don't like what they are....

[Ford Fairlane]

I don't think Brogan is in the leadership group. He was booted from it after the off-field incidents. Chaplin, Salopek and Motlop have been added on a part-time basis, but not Brogan (plenty have said he should be tho).

[Porthos]

Fitness doesn't make you not even try. Fitness doesn't make you not willing to lay shepherds in the first 10 minutes of a game.

Choco has lost the players.

[Geoffa32]

I don't think Brogan is in the leadership group. He was booted from it after the off-field incidents. Chaplin, Salopek and Motlop have been added on a part-time basis, but not Brogan (plenty have said he should be tho).
Dont need to be in leadership group to be a leader. All players should show it.

I dont like Brogan but he shows he cares. Geelong game he showed it, last night on FiveAA he was gutted. He has ticker.

[Macca19]

I thought Fords post was spot on, and I do agree with Porthos view that hes pushed for two years or so now (lack of team things like shepherding etc)

It just all stems to the gameplan for me. The pre season game rung alarm bells for me, and most of us. Touch footy at its best and its how we play. We play footy like we are supposed to play tough rugby. Too concerned about getting ourselves in a position to recieve the ball than to shepherd and block and do team things.

Weve got too many players whos first thought is always to run for the recieve.

In terms of our zone. Its just shit. Ford spelt it out pretty well. For me, they are just like witches hats. They run back to their spot that theyve been told to stand in and as far as they are concerned its job done. Theres no pressure, no anticipation, and as Ford also said...we give up the midfield far too easily. We all push back into the defensive 50 and we allow the opposition to run it almost uncontested past the centre circle.

Its just a total mess.

[Port85]

"Manning up" is an interesting issue.

I sit on the outer wing, pratcially in line with the centre circle. I noticed when Richmond had the ball inside 50 and were looking to bring the ball up the ground via that wing or had already done so, the port players on that side of the ground were doing something interesting that I had not noticed in previous games.

Essentially, a port player would run into a space, look at the oncoming richmond player to see if he had a port opponent who could make a contest or at least tackle the tiger, he would then look behind him, up the wing towards the tigers goal to see if there was a free richmond player behind him.

If there was he would then run halfway towards the oncoming free richmond player but then LOOK BEHIND HIM, SEE ANOTHER PORT PLAYER, POINT AT THE ONCOMING RICHMOND PLAYER AND THEN RUN OFF INTO THE MIDDLE OF THE GROUND... what the f__k is the point of that?

Is it "zone madness"?