View Full Version : Skills, Decision Making, Gameplan or ???
Cousin Jed
29 Jun 2008, 19:39
So after another very poor day in using the pill I did a check on the Disposal effectiveness % by team and well suffice to say it doesn't look pretty.
Hawthorn .........78.42
Richmond ........76.45
Geelong ...........76.21
Carlton ............ 75.49
W. Bulldogs..... 75.21
Collingwood.... 74.91
St Kilda ...........74.84
Adelaide......... 74.81
Melbourne ......74.36
Port .................74.23
Fremantle....... 73.99
North............... 73.78
Sydney ........... 73.19
Essendon ........ 72.77
West Coast ......72.45
Brisbane ......... 71.80
Now obviously it doesn't mean everything, but 3 of those top 5 teams are the top 3 teams in the comp.
Of the 6 losses this year our disposal effectiveness in each game is
66 - West Coast
66 - Western Bulldogs
69.1 - Melbourne
69.8 - Sydney
71.2 - Geelong
72.7 - Hawthorn (who had 81% DE that night)
This makes up 5 of our 6 worst DE %'s on the year - the 1 missing is against the Crows last week when we had 69%, and it was noted what a battle it was for us.
So my question is - is it our skills? Our decision making under pressure? When teams flood? And can it be fixed?
TheBrownDog
29 Jun 2008, 19:41
So after another very poor day in using the pill I did a check on the Disposal effectiveness % by team and well suffice to say it doesn't look pretty.
Hawthorn .........78.42
Richmond ........76.45
Geelong ...........76.21
Carlton ............ 75.49
W. Bulldogs..... 75.21
Collingwood.... 74.91
St Kilda ...........74.84
Adelaide......... 74.81
Melbourne ......74.36
Port .................74.23
Fremantle....... 73.99
North............... 73.78
Sydney ........... 73.19
Essendon ........ 72.77
West Coast ......72.45
Brisbane ......... 71.80
Now obviously it doesn't mean everything, but 3 of those top 5 teams are the top 3 teams in the comp.
Of the 6 losses this year our disposal effectiveness in each game is
66 - West Coast
66 - Western Bulldogs
69.1 - Melbourne
69.8 - Sydney
71.2 - Geelong
72.7 - Hawthorn (who had 81% DE that night)
This makes up 5 of our 6 worst DE %'s on the year - the 1 missing is against the Crows last week when we had 69%, and it was noted what a battle it was for us.
So my question is - is it our skills? Our decision making under pressure? When teams flood? And can it be fixed?
Decision making under pressure I reckon.
What else could explain the way the whole team seems to suffer at once?
Monkey Daniel
29 Jun 2008, 19:58
Decision making under pressure caused by teams flooding... result poor use of skills. How many times when we did kick to Brown or Bradshaw, was it either over their heads, too wide or below the knees??
Grimreepah
29 Jun 2008, 20:55
Just as possession counts have lost their meaning somewhat in the modern game, disposal efficiency would have to fall under the same bracket.
Not saying that our skills are great, but kicking long and direct will tend to bring your disposal efficiency stat down a bit. And Travis Johnstone is a good example, as his disposal efficiency tends to be fairly poor, even though he's a good kick.
Be interested to see a comparison to our premiership years.
Sausages
29 Jun 2008, 21:00
Skills, irrespective of whether under pressure or not. Most of our second tier players (Shermo, Brennan, Corrie, Rhan, Patfull etc) have very ordinary skills for the roles they play in the team. We are also the most inaccurate team in the league for goal kicking. And poor goal kicking is poor football.
blackpowerlappin
29 Jun 2008, 23:22
I think its a combination of all these things at different times:
I think our kicking efficiency is now a bigger problem than our goal kicking accuracy. It better be fixed quickly because it cost us the game today- it has been happening all year and finally it cost us in effect an 8 point game.
I'd be intested to know how many goals we concede from turnovers and clangers?- bet we're in the top 3
Grimreepah
29 Jun 2008, 23:28
it has been happening all year and finally it cost us in effect an 8 point game.
I would have thought this was clearly only a 4 point game.
TheBrownDog
29 Jun 2008, 23:30
I would have thought this was clearly only a 4 point game.
Yeah, pretty sure 8 point game derives from beating a team in a similar ladder position, thus essentially moving forward 2 spots.
I always feel that at the G we need to play a high centre half forward.
I think that when the team is going poorly, the need for a high centre half forward seems more apparent. I'm not sure it is a ground-specific thing (it might be though).
When the team is going well, we run in waves through the middle of the park and deliver long into an uncrowded forward line. When we play poorly, we miss targets, play wider than we should and don't have the same urgency. In those circumstances, a high half forward can mask the deficiencies in our game - it covers for the loss of run from the back half, it involves less risky disposal and it forces the play through the centre corridor. Ideally, it would be a change in structure that could occur during a game when we are struggling but that's hard to implement in-game.
I think the biggest issue for us is intensity. When we lose our intensity, the flaws in our game become apparent. Sides have made grand finals before and have even won premierships with less skilled but more intense players. That's the way we will win a grand final in the next couple of years. Unlike Geelong, we just can't cruise through games. If this side doesn't realise that they can't approach a game with less than 100% intensity and expect to win, then we might see a few more upset losses.
We put ourselves in a position to win win with two minutes left on the clock, I thought it a brave decision not to ice the clock . entertaining to see a side try to push foward and actually win a game rather than save won but unfortunatly we ended up losing one
LionKing
30 Jun 2008, 22:23
I think that when the team is going poorly, the need for a high centre half forward seems more apparent. I'm not sure it is a ground-specific thing (it might be though).
When the team is going well, we run in waves through the middle of the park and deliver long into an uncrowded forward line. When we play poorly, we miss targets, play wider than we should and don't have the same urgency. In those circumstances, a high half forward can mask the deficiencies in our game - it covers for the loss of run from the back half, it involves less risky disposal and it forces the play through the centre corridor. Ideally, it would be a change in structure that could occur during a game when we are struggling but that's hard to implement in-game.
I think the biggest issue for us is intensity. When we lose our intensity, the flaws in our game become apparent. Sides have made grand finals before and have even won premierships with less skilled but more intense players. That's the way we will win a grand final in the next couple of years. Unlike Geelong, we just can't cruise through games. If this side doesn't realise that they can't approach a game with less than 100% intensity and expect to win, then we might see a few more upset losses.
Spot on POBT, intensity is the key to winning games this year because our skills are not up to scratch. Having witnessed the doggies live at the 'G' we are so far behind in that area it is scary. Hopefully the skill level improves over time.
Yeah, pretty sure 8 point game derives from beating a team in a similar ladder position, thus essentially moving forward 2 spots.
I agree with BPL - it gave us the chance to cement our position where it stood pending Adelaide playing Geelong and Collingwood playing Sydney. Make no mistake about it, this was a game which we had to win.
Couple of things, it definately our decision making under pressure. However I won't be solely blaming the people making the passes. If they are passing to some one who is stationary - why the hell are they stationary? What happened to our forward flow that we seemed to have going on previous games this season? To me it's a team thing. If some one has worked hard to get the ball then other players hsould be working into space to reward them for their work. Too many times the only option around a hard working player is some one stationary.
There were definately skills errors as well but I won't be blaming the individuals who are making the passes everytime.
Tim the Toolman
1 Jul 2008, 10:42
Decision making under pressure caused by teams flooding... result poor use of skills. How many times when we did kick to Brown or Bradshaw, was it either over their heads, too wide or below the knees??
This is what makes Luke Power a freak. Look how many times he is kicking what should be a right foot kick with his left foot, under pressure and yet he still manages to hit a target. Even Simon Black was terrible with his kicks under pressure on Sunday - ala Brennan on most days.
Our lack of skill becomes less noticeable when we pressure the opponent to drop to our level. We have lost the tackle count in each of our last 3 games. That is an area where we were the clear league leader a few weeks ago. We're still second (well, will be after the Swans play on the weekend) but that needs to be the foundation of our game. If we are not tackling better or more effectively than our opponent, then we lose what I consider to be our biggest competitive advantage. It must improve. Skills don't develop in a few weeks but tackling and defensive intensity are things that can be quickly fixed.
Cousin Jed
1 Jul 2008, 11:02
Interesting. I didn't remember we were beaten against the Crows too POBT.
There is probably a definite link there.
Interesting. I didn't remember we were beaten against the Crows too POBT.
There is probably a definite link there.
We only just beat Freo's tackle count and Freo are the 2nd worst tackling team in the competition.
strategy
1 Jul 2008, 11:26
Many of your players dont seem to be able to handle the surface of the G and its not the first time i have noticed it.
Is it the boots or lack of playing on the surface or a mental barrier ?
Your speed seems to diminish and hence your skills go out the door .
Tassie4ever
1 Jul 2008, 11:37
Many of your players dont seem to be able to handle the surface of the G and its not the first time i have noticed it.
Is it the boots or lack of playing on the surface or a mental barrier ?
Your speed seems to diminish and hence your skills go out the door
Very important point this one- after all the pregame planning, strategy, team meetings etc, I often wonder how much prep goes into boot selection, seeing all the slips and losses of balance the Lions experience.
One of my standing rejoinders to my next seat occupier is that each player who loses grip or who goes to ground should be fined $100- I know, it's impractical, but when you think that losing your feet in a one-on-one means you lose the contest, balance is critical.
Ashley McGrath was a classic at this, always falling over, and I think that one of the real reasons for his success at halfback is that he has less need to turn suddenly as in the forward line.
Comfort is vital, balance is even more critical. We are used to a hard and fast surface. The MCG in the middle of winter might look green but usually has a very light grass coverage and is damp. Boot selection should reflect these basics.
People used to say that we were a quality side at the MCG. I always thought that it was not particularly accurate because we simply didn't play there often enough to get a true representation. That we've now lost a couple of games at the G doesn't change my opinion that we simply don't play there enough to make a judgment one way or another.
When we were kings in 2002 I went to the crows semi final at the gabba i think they won the very first tap out but the crows midfielder got slammed into the gabba turf.
That set the tone for the rest of the game
The tackling was ruthless and we were unbeatable. You tackle hard the opposition dont want to come near you.
blynd_freddie
2 Jul 2008, 00:43
Our lack of skill becomes less noticeable when we pressure the opponent to drop to our level.*snip* Skills don't develop in a few weeks but tackling and defensive intensity are things that can be quickly fixed.
Yep, I know it's clearly not as simple as the difference in being the Hunter not the Hunted but a bloody good mental starting place!
Cousin Jed
12 Jul 2008, 23:25
UPDATE:
Of the 7 losses this year our disposal effectiveness in each game is
66 - West Coast
66 - Western Bulldogs
68.9 - Essendon
69.1 - Melbourne
69.8 - Sydney
71.2 - Geelong
72.7 - Hawthorn (who had 81% DE that night)
This makes up 6 of our 7 worst DE %'s on the year - the 1 missing is against the Crows when we had 69%, and it was noted what a battle it was for us.
We have not passed 70% Disposal Effectiveness since we played Fremantle.