View Full Version : Trading Patful
HawkPatrol
30 Jun 2008, 18:06
Would you consider trading Joel Patful for a mid fielder from Hawthorn? Someone along the lines of Young or Muston or Lewis?
TheBrownDog
30 Jun 2008, 18:08
Would you consider trading Joel Patful for a mid fielder from Hawthorn? Someone along the lines of Young or Muston or Lewis?
I very much doubt it. He's too important to us. We'd be very exposed down back without him.
Whats with Hawthorn supporters interest in our defenders? We had one of your fellow Hawks come here a few weeks back wanting Jason Roe.
For a team that is widely considered to have few defensive options, we seem to be attracting interest.
Cousin Jed
30 Jun 2008, 18:23
Whats with Hawthorn supporters interest in our defenders? We had one of your fellow Hawks come here a few weeks back wanting Jason Roe.
Indeed.
I'll take July 28 in the pool for when the Merrett thread starts
Patfull for Lewis is one i would entertain
HawkPatrol
30 Jun 2008, 18:25
Hawks are looking for young Key Defenders like Patful, Thursfield, Brown and Williams.
TheBrownDog
30 Jun 2008, 18:28
Patfull for Lewis is one i would entertain
Geez, I wouldn't.
In the rare occassion he isn't suspended or injured he's a quality player, but talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I would only ever trade a surplus player. Patfull is very much required IMO.
notting18
30 Jun 2008, 18:48
If we trade out Patfull we then lose a vital part of our spine! No way will he leave or will we entertain the possibility.
Patful on the otherhand ;)
Geez, I wouldn't.
In the rare occassion he isn't suspended or injured he's a quality player, but talk about robbing Peter to pay Paul.
I would only ever trade a surplus player. Patfull is very much required IMO.
I am not advocating trading Patfull, he plays as a tall defender and is probably the most improved player in the competition. But Lewis is an excellent young mid that is probably a year away from ironing out his game and being an elite onballer. We have Roe, Henderson and Clouston as developing backs etc. We wont trade Patfull and we shouldn't but my want for quality mids does make me flirt with the idea
Nah wouldn't trade Patfull. Roe I would consider (blasphemy!) but definitely for more than the going rate we'd probably be offered for him.
notliondown
30 Jun 2008, 19:28
Would you consider trading Joel Patful for a mid fielder from Hawthorn? Someone along the lines of Young or Muston or Lewis?
Uuuuummmm.... no.
But thanks for asking....:D
How about Wayde Mills ?
Same size and mould as Patfull.. finding it hard to break into our lineup. IMO will look for a trade come end of season. A mid for Mills, we are talking.
TheBrownDog
30 Jun 2008, 20:48
What happened to Dawson anyway?
I remember Hawks fans being all about the "Zac attack" a couple of years ago.
konstas_87
30 Jun 2008, 21:30
Patfull is hands off, not negotiable, locked away.
NO WAY.
CaptainDavey
30 Jun 2008, 21:32
How tall is young Patfull?
I haven't seen him live before and TV can be fair deceiving. He usually takes the number 2 tall yeah?
TheBrownDog
30 Jun 2008, 21:54
How tall is young Patfull?
I haven't seen him live before and TV can be fair deceiving. He usually takes the number 2 tall yeah?
He's not very tall (190cms rings a bell I think). Merrett normally takes the gorillas, Patfull normally gets the oppositions best mobile tall (although he can play small as well).
CaptainDavey
30 Jun 2008, 21:56
He's not very tall (190cms rings a bell I think). Merrett normally takes the gorillas, Patfull normally gets the oppositions best mobile tall (although he can play small as well).
I thought as much, I didn't think a tall could duck and weave and slot through a very nice goal like he did on the weekend. That was very, very classy:thumbsu:
Governor
30 Jun 2008, 21:57
Now let me toss some coal on the fire - some of you may already know my thoughts on trading players. I for one again watched the game this week with absolute amazement, we as supporters continue to sing the praises of the overrated Mitch Clark....WHY? after another sub-standard effort again I call on support from the flock to start our own thread to seriously look at sending him back to WA for top quality draft selections as this presents a terrific opportunity to the club
TheBrownDog
30 Jun 2008, 21:59
Now let me toss some coal on the fire - some of you may already know my thoughts on trading players. I for one again watched the game this week with absolute amazement, we as supporters continue to sing the praises of the overrated Mitch Clark....WHY? after another sub-standard effort again I call on support from the flock to start our own thread to seriously look at sending him back to WA for top quality draft selections as this presents a terrific opportunity to the club
Apart from disagreeing with your desire to trade him, I dont think your plan would really work, even if we wanted to trade him.
Freo and West Coast will both have top 3 selections. They wont give them up for Clark.
Their next picks will be around the 20 mark, Clark is worth more than that.
Cousin Jed
30 Jun 2008, 22:04
Now let me toss some coal on the fire - some of you may already know my thoughts on trading players. I for one again watched the game this week with absolute amazement, we as supporters continue to sing the praises of the overrated Mitch Clark....WHY? after another sub-standard effort again I call on support from the flock to start our own thread to seriously look at sending him back to WA for top quality draft selections as this presents a terrific opportunity to the club
Were you here last week? I can't remember
Governor
30 Jun 2008, 22:13
I'm glad your willing to pin the entire career on one game - my question explain why our mate Mitch has had less than 10 touches on 12 of his 18 games?
Where we you during rounds 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12?
TheBrownDog
30 Jun 2008, 22:18
I'm glad your willing to pin the entire career on one game - my question explain why our mate Mitch has had less than 10 touches on 12 of his 18 games?
Where we you during rounds 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12?
What happened to the rule that key position players don't really show what they are capable of until they get around the 50 game mark.
Mitch is still learning his trade and I have been very impressed at the ability he has shown in his time to date. He's incredibly athletic for a bloke his size, he's a great mark, very clean at ground level and looks to have improved his goal kicking.
He's been played up forward, down back and in the ruck in the time he has played this year,. You can't really just point at the stat sheet and say its not working out. I dare say the club are still testing him out like a new toy to see what he can do.
I can't believe you referenced round 11 (the Freo game) as an example of him playing poorly. He was fantastic that game. Showed alot of capabilities as a tall defender and combined it with incredible run out of defence. I was stunned that he did that in his first game in defence.
Cousin Jed
30 Jun 2008, 22:20
Round 11? Enjoying him taking a key backmans post and racking up 16 disposals, somewhere where he basically had not played.
Round 9? Enjoying him again having 16 possessions, 7 marks kicking a goal and doing some work in the ruck.
Round 8? Enjoying him playing the 2nd ruckman and still smashin hackland and his mate at Carlton in the ruck.
lions_den
30 Jun 2008, 22:38
Rofl, no. We'll trade Mills for Morton. An unco for an unco:p
Grimreepah
30 Jun 2008, 22:49
I'll start the bidding:
Patfull for Hodge.
Patfull and our 1st round pick for Mitchell.
Is that too much or too little?
Grimreepah
30 Jun 2008, 22:57
Ruse, after wanting to trade Henderson, Adcock and our first round pick for Deledio you are banned from the bidding process.:p
Cousin Jed
30 Jun 2008, 22:57
Patfull and our 1st round pick for Mitchell.
Is that too much or too little?
too much. This is bigfooty.
If we wanted Mitchell offers should commence with Beau McDonald and a 2nd rounder.
Patfull only gets thrown in if they are prepared to give up Franklin
TheBrownDog
30 Jun 2008, 22:59
too much. This is bigfooty.
Offers should commence with Beau McDonald and a 2nd rounder.
Three way deal.
Patfull and Adcock to Hawthorn.
Mitchell and Franklin to Collingwood.
Egan and Lonie to Brisbane.
Three way deal.
Patfull and Adcock to Hawthorn.
Mitchell and Franklin to Collingwood.
Egan and Lonie to Brisbane.
No way. I want Toovey in that deal. Definitely..
TheBrownDog
30 Jun 2008, 23:27
No way. I want Toovey in that deal. Definitely..
Its greedy attitudes like this that has made our club unable to close trade week deals. ;)
Old Den
30 Jun 2008, 23:38
Its greedy attitudes like this that has made our club unable to close trade week deals. ;)
Well how about including Drummond to Collingwood for Toovey
Well how about including Drummond to Collingwood for Toovey
Shaw bros. >>>> Drummond. I think they'd prefer a ruckman.:cool:
Shaw bros. >>>> Drummond. I think they'd prefer a ruckman.:cool:
Leuenberger for Woewodin.. shit we missed a steal...
Its greedy attitudes like this that has made our club unable to close trade week deals. ;)
Nope.. A fair deal is what we are after.. Always.. If Toovey is not on table then I'm walking.
Sherminator.
1 Jul 2008, 00:52
I am not advocating trading Patfull, he plays as a tall defender and is probably the most improved player in the competition. But Lewis is an excellent young mid that is probably a year away from ironing out his game and being an elite onballer. We have Roe, Henderson and Clouston as developing backs etc. We wont trade Patfull and we shouldn't but my want for quality mids does make me flirt with the idea
I am with acuguy on this one. Lewis would most definitely be a great addition. But losing Patfull would have an impact, too.
Ugh.
It is one of those fine lines and i really do wonder if there is going to be a sacrificial lamb at the end of the season in order to get another first round draft pick.
I know people say first rounders don't gurantee you anything but surely if you are a recruiter for the lions you are going to back yourself in as getting a great talent early in the draft. We need upper echelon, we don't have upper echelon coming through, we are pretty right for talls these days except for needing another ruckmen.
How is this for an unlikely but interesting scenario
Charman and our 2nd round pick with either Richmond/Carlton/St Kilda for their top 10 pick and their second round pick.
The theory would then be we should have 2 top 10 picks if we finish 7th or 8th, with these picks we get the 2 best mids on offer, with our upgraded 2nd rounder we get the best young ruck still on offer.
Now obviously this leaves us with only
The Berger
Clark and we re rookie Tippett
Here is the next part
We draft in Travis Ronaldson- just started playing footy at Morningside- He was the VFL representative ruckmen last year and from all reports the best ruck outside the AFL, we pick him as an insurance policy, this leaves us no worse off than this year except we now depend on Berger and Clark and hopefully have picked up a future champion with the Charman trade.
This is not the beginning of a bandwagon, just a bit of footy fantasy.
I'm glad your willing to pin the entire career on one game - my question explain why our mate Mitch has had less than 10 touches on 12 of his 18 games?
Where we you during rounds 8, 9, 10, 11 or 12?
As Leunenberger can't even make the team currently, I assume it's a given that you've already parcelled him up and shipped him back to Perth?
The guy has played less than 20 games and he's most 2M tall.
Paddy Ryder is the same age and has played 44 games, thanks to a clear run with injury.
Av. Disp. Av. Marks AV. Tackles Av. HO Av. SC score
Ryder 9.9 3.9 2.1 2.7 58.9
Clark 9.6 3.9 1.2 4.1 61.3
They are almost freakishly similar despite Paddy considerable extra experience (more than double). I'd expect Mitch's numbers to be higher when he hits 50 games.
Don't think Essendon are calling for Paddy's head on platter.
It is one of those fine lines and i really do wonder if there is going to be a sacrificial lamb at the end of the season in order to get another first round draft pick.
I think the situation can be read 1 of 2 ways.
Option 1: Last year we secured another 1st round pick and then traded it on for an established player. Why would we trade an established player for a 1st round pick this year? It seems inconsistent with recent decision making.
Option 2: Last year, we had no-one of any real value who would secure a 1st round pick (who we would willingly trade). This year, we've got a bit more depth and some of the quality is becoming more apparent. We may be able to afford to let a good player go and take the risk that we can pick up an even better and younger player.
I still think we are light on for key defenders. Roe simply can't be relied upon as a tall defender until he shows a bit more and there is no experienced depth to speak of. For those reasons, I would struggle to see that we could benefit from trading Patfull. As good as our defence has been, we are still vulnerable in that area.
I think we have a few players who are bigger bodied but underskilled. I'd be more looking to shop those guys around to clubs which are looking for a bit of on-ball muscle. You won't get a top 10 or even top 15 pick but you might secure something after that. Clubs are more willing to take a punt with pick 16 and beyond - eg Richmond gave up pick 19 for Jordan McMahon.
I'm coming around to the idea of securing Cousins. Should not have to give anything up and we get a classy midfielder who _should_ last a few more years ie our window. Of course this is dependant on the medical staff and how he's been travelling in the months before he'd start.
I've been kind of impressed with what we've seen of his attitude of late and think the media wouldn't be as bad here as the other states.
Grimreepah
1 Jul 2008, 10:48
The club seems to rely on the loyalty card more than others, so it tends to not shop players around.
Patfull is a bit of rags to riches player, and clubs don't normally fancy putting these types on the table. It is more your highly rated players who are under performing or not getting enough opportunities.
I'm coming around to the idea of securing Cousins. Should not have to give anything up and we get a classy midfielder who _should_ last a few more years ie our window. Of course this is dependant on the medical staff and how he's been travelling in the months before he'd start.
I have to admit that I quite like trade and draft time. I know others hate it but I quite like the intrigue of it all. In some respects, I wish you could trade future draft picks or even trade players (including draftees) after the draft because that would just add to the mix.
This year, the drafting of Cousins will be perhaps the biggest draft drama that we've seen. It will be like seeing who will blink first. Everyone will think that they don't want to waste a high draft pick on him but if you had pick 14 and knew that Hawthorn had pick 15, you'd be very tempted to pull the trigger, given that Hawthorn are right in the premiership window now and would love to add another experienced mid to their mix.
I don't see him lasting beyond pick 25 in the ND so we'd have to be prepared to give up something significant.
I've been kind of impressed with what we've seen of his attitude of late
Me too. A massive change in attitude and yet still that supreme confidence in his own ability.
I know it's a bit early to concede this year (and I hope this post comes back to bite me). But.........
The club has done well to get to a top eight standard given where we were four years ago. But is there enough natural improvement in the current list to take us to a grand final in the next 3 years? IMHO no. I acknowledge I have never seen the Suncoast play so there may be a potential gun midfielder playing there, but if there is he needs to be pick for our next game.
We need more quality in the mid-field.
Options:
1. We take the risk and draft a quality mid and hope in three years they are at close to All Australian standard. Kowing that in all likelihood Black and Power wont be at that standard in four years time.
2. We make a very hard decision and trade a player we all like and admire to get a mid who hopefully will take us the next step.
No easy choices. Trade a good tall and great club man for a potential gun midfielder. Maybe we have to.
Patfull for Prismall?
Cmon you know you want it.
Or maybe just I do.
Chasing the Dream
6 Jul 2008, 09:13
Patfull for Prismall?
Cmon you know you want it.
Or maybe just I do.
I think it is just you:D
It will be interesting at Geelong because i think they may very well lose a Prismall at the end of the season due to his lack of opportunities ala Lions with Bolton, Gram, Voss etc
A club might get him with their second round pick if he uses the the pre season draft threat.
Just looking at Geelong's list and here are some players outside their current 22 that we should look at as potetial targets
Davenport- super athletic wingman with the ability to kick multiple goals, late starter to footy
Djerrkura- anyone that watched him in last years pre season competition would have been extremely impressed with his strength
Gamble- Has been used as a third tall and is a skillful athletic footballer, i think he could be an excellent defender thought
Tenace-Former first round draft pick with pace to burn, he was an interesting early draft pick because he was picked on potential, a new club would be good for him because he has all the attributes
Prismall-Smart user of the footy, good accumulator of the footy, i liken him to a poor man's Bartel
All these blokes have ability in spades, any of them would be worth a look at
Gamble is the one that I have my eye on.
Patfull for Prismall?
Cmon you know you want it.
Or maybe just I do.
Prismall is another outside mid which we have a lot in our lineup. I would rather try Proud who shows promise to be the inside mid that we need, after Black.
doggiesin08
6 Jul 2008, 18:41
The Hawks may say they want him but they wouldn't be able to meet the trade requirements for him. They havn't in 2 years been able to satisfy Carlton for Thornton and last year they wanted pick 5 for Tim Boyle and didn't accept pick 5 + Shaun Higgins for Jarryd Roughead (who wasn't as highly rated then).
coast2coast
6 Jul 2008, 18:45
Would you consider trading Joel Patful for a mid fielder from Hawthorn? Someone along the lines of Young or Muston or Lewis?
young and lewis.. ok fair enough.
but muston, a 21 year old who hasn't played a game but has had three knee reconstructions? i don't think the risk advisors would be letting that one get through!
[quote=acuguy;11616816]It will be interesting at Geelong because i think they may very well lose a Prismall at the end of the season due to his lack of opportunities ala Lions with Bolton, Gram, Voss etc
Prismall-Smart user of the footy, good accumulator of the footy, i liken him to a poor man's Bartel
I'd rather trade into the club a rich man's Bartel - so would the club which is why we've only traded in Michael,Caracella and Johnstone in the last 8 years
Instead of talking about of trading Joel,seeing he is from SA,we should be concerned about having him playing out his career here - IMO a bird in the hand is worth more than two in the bush
A poor man's Bartel may not have been a great description.
It is important to understand i am not saying we should trade Patfull for Prismall or any player. It is just a good discussion!
As for the Geelong issue, i would love to snag one of these young blokes suffering from a lack of opportunity and get the same result as the Swans got with Bolton and the Saints got with Gram
TheBrownDog
6 Jul 2008, 23:35
Warwick made a post recently saying that Brent Prismall is Geelong's Aaron Shattock in that his struggle to break into an extremely settled and dominant team allowed his reputation to exceed his actual output.
Its an interesting point, but from what I've seen of Prismall (albeit not a huge amount), I rate him and would like to see him a Lion.
Not at the cost of Patfull though. If Geelong accepted a second round pick, I'd be all over that like vegemite on a crumpet.
Prismall is a genuine midfielder, the fact that he dominates VFL level is a pretty good indication that he is a decent footballer, you cannot be a good AFL player if you don't get the opportunities, he doesn't get them because it is pretty hard to get into Geelong's midfield. There is at least one diamond in that mob of Geelong players and i think it is our turn to get a diamond!
Shattock-not quite tall enough, not quite strong enough, not quite quick enough and not quite skillful enough. Won a premiership and did the the best he could and now is a very good player at state league level (but he will always have a premiership medal)