Changes v Carlton

[The Punter]

I preface this thread by stating that a settled side would be desirable, and the boys did the job on the weekend, and should be commended.

However, we could possibly have five regular best-22 players fit for the Carlton game:

Steven Baker
Adam Schneider
Michael Gardiner
Xavier Clarke
Lenny Hayes

Firstly, I would like some feedback on where these guys should come back in, AFL or VFL.

Secondly, for everyone who comes back into the senior side, who would come out?

Personally, if all five were included, my suggestions would be James Gwilt, Andrew McQualter, Charlie Gardiner, Jarryd Allen and Robert Eddy. All except Gardiner were good on the weekend, but the guys replacing them would certainly be a skill upgrade if not an effort upgrade in some cases.

I think C Gardiner is the only one who personally deserves to be "dropped" (I didn't have him in for this week's game, preferring to keep McEvoy), but the other four would be victims of better players returning from injury.

On the other hand, only Lenny Hayes would definitely demand a return directly into the senior side. King and Kosi worked well in the ruck on Saturday night, Baker and X Clarke haven't played much football this year and Adam Schneider wasn't exactly setting the world on fire before he got injured.

Thoughts?

[CHBench]

IN: Baker Gardiner Hayes
OUT: McQualter C. Gardiner ???

It would be dissapointing if the 5 came straight back in. We would be going back to our old ways by playing with a team full of senior players with not many developing. Gwilt has been good as has Eddy and McQualter. Allen has been providing a bit of bash and crash and another target up forward. Gardiner had an average game on the weekend so he could possibly be on the out. This week would be a perfect oppurtunity to play McEvoy, playing against another first year ruckman but because Gardiner and Kosi fit and firing it won't be happening.

IMO baker is a must. Leaves Judd for dead every time. I would like to see schneider in but he has been playing very average football and Clarke i have no idea who would have to make way for him. Perhaps a stint in the 2's to get some game time back into his body.

[Squizzy1970]

Lyon has spoken about Hayes and Baker, so they are straight in.

If Gardi is fit, he'll be straight in too.

X and Schneider should go through Casey, but I think Schneider might be given different treatment?

No room for Birss again?

If you look at the guys who played against North, there are very few who you would even think of leaving out of the team.

Chucky and Mini definitely. Eddy might be unlucky. Gwilt for mine (should never have been in) but won't happen.

Would leave Allen in, as we have to have another tall if Riewoldt is going to do "the Richo". I thought he created plenty and gave us structure.

[SaintsSeptember]

For me:
X in for Eddy ( Eddy was good but showed his inexperience at times ).
Schneider in for C Gardner
Lenny in for Mc Qualter
Baker in for Geary or Gwilt.

I am a bit undecided about whether we should use two Rucks. Both have proven to be able to play a whole game OK. It would be OK for example if M Gardner could play in the forward line when not rucking but at this stage we don't know if it would work.
Hard to find room on the team for the Two rucks and Kosi and Allen.

[Squizzy1970]

King needs support before he gets another soft tissue injury. Would think the two rucks would rotate off the ground.

Riewoldt to float and Allen/Kosi to provide badly needed forward line structure.

[SaintsSeptember]

King needs support before he gets another soft tissue injury. Would think the two rucks would rotate off the ground.

Riewoldt to float and Allen/Kosi to provide badly needed forward line structure.

Yeah I know what you mean about Kingy, it just seems a bit of a waste to have two players with only 50% gametime each, though Armitage who relieves the midfield players ( http://www.saints.com.au/tabid/5315/Default.aspx?newsid=62397 ) dosn't seem to get much more time than this either.
Would it be an alternative to rest king completely and have Gardiner in instead?

[Squizzy1970]

I reckon they combine pretty well, King because he controls the ruck contests and floats into defence and Gardi as he runs pretty aggressively and gives an option (also pinch hits as a forward).

Watching Kosi's tap-work, I'd rather the two first choice rucks play in the same team. It also gives insurance against injury as we saw with King against Essendon and Gardiner against Sydney.

If you bring Gardiner in, arguably it gives King a rest of sorts on the bench.

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Blues dont have the greatest ruck duo remember. And I for one would love to see Macca take on Kreuzer! But I know we may have to wait another year for that to happen.

Baker, Hayes and Gardi straight back in. X and Schneids a run with Casey.

Unlucky: McQ, Allen and Eddy

[Kildonan]

I think we need to see more players top up their fitness with a short stint at Casey. Xavier Clarke is the goal kicking midfielder we have been missing most of the season, but his performances do relate very closely to his fitness. Adam Schneider has been inconsistent for us this year - with only one truly inspiring performance - against a disheartened Melbourne. Baker hasn't played since the Richmond match - his second game of the season. Michael Gardiner came back from injury once already this season and only really played out the first quarter before being cotton-wooled for the remainder of the match.

Hayes is match fit - he can come staraight back in, but questions should be raised as to the fitness of the others.

Birss is fighting fit.

Another I would consider is Luke Miles - hes had a few games at Casey now and really looks the goods.

[Armitage2Riewoldt]

Fair points about match fitness. Birss could def come in instead of Baker, and I'd rather that because Birss is probs in the best form of his career.

Miles is a rookie, and I dont think hes been promoted. So he cant play... But I think we've only promoted 2 rookies (Eddy and McQualter) so that leaves one more a possibility. I think they might be leaving it open for Attard to make a quick recovery.

But Miles is def looking promosing, from the small glimpse we got all those months ago against Richmond, to hearing about him kicking 5 goals in 2 matches from the back pocket just recently.

[Squizzy1970]

I think Mini came up for Goose and Eddy for LJ, so Miles will have to stay on the rookie list until Fraser makes up his mind. (looks like Armo2Roo has beaten me for pace)

He's got the attributes, but is still building his fitness base. At 21, he still has time on his side. Would be very disappointed if he was not elevated at end of year (onto senior list).

[Otiman]

In: Birss (HFF), Hayes (C), M. Gardiner (R)
Out: Allen (FF), C. Gardiner (HFF), +1.

M. Gardiner is essentially relieving Koschitzke to play FF, meaning Allen is not required. Birss in for C. Gardiner, and someone else to exit for Hayes. Mini perhaps? Eddy?

Baker - Been out too long, suspension, an injury then reinjured has been out for 6 weeks, and has only played 2 games this year.

X - As above, been out for too long, and his form was down when injured too.

Schneider - Was a candidate to be dropped with Milne and Dal, should come through the VFL to prove himself in a similar vein.

Another change, should the club wish to do so, is Miles in for Gwilt. Not sure what purpose this would prove as Gwilt has been servicable and is on the improve.

[Kildonan]

Fraser interviewed on Sunday (I think) - said he was still a long way from getting back - if he does get back at all :eek:

[CHBench]

Fingers crossed Gwilt isn't dropped. He's one of a very few backmen developing at the club and i feel that he is improving everyweek. One thing that i will criticize him on is he dosen't pay attention to the play, there have been quite a few instances where the ball has spilled out and has been a bit slow to react to it. But if he can improve that area of his game he will be very handy.

[HoldenMCaulfield]

Baker in for Geary or Gwilt.

VFL (Geary) or AFL (Gwilt) for Baker ? :o (apologies for being a smart arse...)

On topic, I would not be surprised or too unhappy if there will be one change only with Hayes coming back in for Charlie Gardiner (with Armitage taking Gardiners role and hopefully getting more game time - he played almost the entire game for Casey a few times this year and seemed okay...).

Michael Gardiner should only come back in if fit and Baker and X Clarke should be tested with Casey (have been out for quite some time). I would give McQualter another go, I liked the way he fought himself into the Boomer Harvey contest and finally got the better of him in the end. Gilbert played a lot better this weekend and is regaining his fitness.

Not sure about Schneider - from what I remember, he's had only one really good game (and that was against Melbourne), so why not give him the Casey experience, too. On the other hand, Lyon likes him, so he may be in. In that case I would expect Allen or Gwilt (with Allen moving back) to be out.

I guess that we will know more (or at least have more to talk about) once the team for Casey this weekend (top of the table clash against Williamstown !) will be announced (possible test especially for Clarke and Baker).

[SaintsSeptember]

Blues dont have the greatest ruck duo remember. And I for one would love to see Macca take on Kreuzer! But I know we may have to wait another year for that to happen.

Baker, Hayes and Gardi straight back in. X and Schneids a run with Casey.

Unlucky: McQ, Allen and Eddy I'd bet that Kruezer and McEvoy would love to have a shot at each other, but at our current level in the ladder we are much better having Kingy smash them in the ruck.:D

[SaintsSeptember]

I think Mini came up for Goose and Eddy for LJ, so Miles will have to stay on the rookie list until Fraser makes up his mind. (looks like Armo2Roo has beaten me for pace)

He's got the attributes, but is still building his fitness base. At 21, he still has time on his side. Would be very disappointed if he was not elevated at end of year (onto senior list).
Aren't we able to temporarily elevate a rookie when a player is on the long term injury list?

With plenty of players vying for a spot, and Miles in his first year as a Rookie they may make him wait out the year. It is great though, having a first year rookie that we would like to play! :D
Some of our players seem to be able to get straight back into it, and I think that Baker is one of them, so I wouldn't be surprised to see him come back in. I agree that Schneider may be a bit dubious though.
Just hope that X doesn't hurt himself playing for Casey. I am pretty sure Attard will play for Casey a bit before geting a Saints game.

I believe that RL is trying to give some of the past underachievers a last chance before crunch time at the end of the year, and that Gwilt and McQualter will stay in next round. Good luck to them both.:)

[Otiman]

In that case I would expect Allen or Gwilt (with Allen moving back) to be out.

Allen will never play back for us. Too slow and easily exploited.

[TassieSaint]

In: Hayes Birss M. Gardiner
Out: Allen C. Gardiner Eddy
Casey: Baker, Clarke, Schneider

Bakes, X and Schneiderman to have a spell in the magoos to earn their selection next week. Charlie Gardiner has had his chance, Eddy and Allen aren't yet AFL ready (although I've been impressed by Allen and think he'll make it). Hayes obviously should be straight back, Gardiner is very important and Birss shouldn't have been dropped in the first place.

[CHBench]

Early prediction anyone?

Saints by 23

[siamang]

Yeah, saints should and will win by about 40.

They are our bitches and we are still much better than them.
We don't deserve to play finals if we lose against the tankers, especially considering our current injury list.

[Look2Me4Guidance]

Hayes would definitely come back in for me. I would suggest for McQualter (he seems to get knocked off the ball far too easily, but he does put his body in). Eddy and Allen had done enough to warrant another game for mine. Charlie Gardiner is a bit of a worry, so if Michael Gardiner is fit I'd bring him in to really help exploit our ruck advantage. Kosi should have ample opportunity to ply his craft on the extra space of the G as will Riewoldt. Schneider must come back through the VFL, ditto X Clarke. Baker is a tricky one. He would be an extremely valuable inclusion to take on Judd, especially after Judd won't be 100% due to his groin complaints. Very difficult to find a spot for him though.

[MIDDO]

Lyon has spoken about Hayes and Baker, so they are straight in.

If Gardi is fit, he'll be straight in too.

X and Schneider should go through Casey, but I think Schneider might be given different treatment?

No room for Birss again?

If you look at the guys who played against North, there are very few who you would even think of leaving out of the team.

Chucky and Mini definitely. Eddy might be unlucky. Gwilt for mine (should never have been in) but won't happen.

Would leave Allen in, as we have to have another tall if Riewoldt is going to do "the Richo". I thought he created plenty and gave us structure.

Wondering if Allen is a chance to kick a goal in the near future ?? Alright providing a target but has to make an impression on the scoreboard.

[MIDDO]

Hopefully only two mabye three changes,Hayes in for Mini , Baker in for C.Gardiner and bring in Gardiner for Allen. Is it just me or does Allen have alot of fans on this site ,seems to me he really needs to show a hell of alot more than just putting his body in.A pack mark or mabye a couple of goals hmmm well one would do for a key position player ;). Think Kosi is the answer down forward as he attacks and gets his hands on plenty of footy,might be ready to blossom :thumbsu: Sammy Fisher on the ball really got us moving against the Roos,match winnig move !!!!!

[ChrisFooty]

Schender and Xavier Clarke should return through the VFL. They will lack match fitness and form, so getting a game or two would be the better option.

Baker comes in, does McQualter play the shut down role as well? (assuming they are both in the same team) Or does he go trying to win as much of the footy as possible? McQualter and Gwilt do not derserve to be dropped, although you would say that for Birss (no room it seems currently, very unlucky)

Charlie Gardnier will be dropped. Plays one very good game (Sydney) then follows with two very ordinary performances. Unfortunley that is not going to benefit St.kilda. Eddy probabaly will go back with Casey.

Allen might stay in the team because we need that third tall option.

[SaintsSeptember]

Schender and Xavier Clarke should return through the VFL. They will lack match fitness and form, so getting a game or two would be the better option.

Baker comes in, does McQualter play the shut down role as well? (assuming they are both in the same team) Or does he go trying to win as much of the footy as possible? McQualter and Gwilt do not derserve to be dropped, although you would say that for Birss (no room it seems currently, very unlucky)

Charlie Gardnier will be dropped. Plays one very good game (Sydney) then follows with two very ordinary performances. Unfortunley that is not going to benefit St.kilda. Eddy probabaly will go back with Casey.

Allen might stay in the team because we need that third tall option.
From what some of the Cats supporters posted, this has been his problem all along.

[Squizzy1970]

Wondering if Allen is a chance to kick a goal in the near future ?? Alright providing a target but has to make an impression on the scoreboard.

I think he is struggling with his kicking as he's growing. I saw him kick a ripper 60m goal at Casey early days, but plenty of work is needed (as with a number of the team). His action doesn't look horrible, but the contact with the ball can be. Hopefully they can sort it out, as if he kicks straight he will probably want to get the ball more.

[Squizzy1970]

Is it just me or does Allen have alot of fans on this site ,seems to me he really needs to show a hell of alot more than just putting his body in.A pack mark or mabye a couple of goals hmmm well one would do for a key position player ;).

At face value you are right, but if you watch the tape closely he took one pack mark, had another disallowed that I thought was a mark, and was pivotal in Milne getting at least two of his goals. One was a direct tap straight to him. Milne's opponent is going to the contest whilst he drifts off the pack, so if Allen wasn't effective then Milne would have struggled to get a touch on the night.

[dg102]

Hayes and M.Gardiner are straight back in this week.
The rest are still on test. Schnider still needs to pass a fitness test.
The rest most likely wont be back yet.
Charlie Gardiner is out and then possibly out of Allen/Eddy.

[SaintsSeptember]

At face value you are right, but if you watch the tape closely he took one pack mark, had another disallowed that I thought was a mark, and was pivotal in Milne getting at least two of his goals. One was a direct tap straight to him. Milne's opponent is going to the contest whilst he drifts off the pack, so if Allen wasn't effective then Milne would have struggled to get a touch on the night.

These days it is not so easy to take a mark and get possession in the 50.
If Allen has found an effective way to end up with a score on the board - credit to him, and bugger what the stats say.
Too many people look at the stats and don't see the full picture.

[MIDDO]

At face value you are right, but if you watch the tape closely he took one pack mark, had another disallowed that I thought was a mark, and was pivotal in Milne getting at least two of his goals. One was a direct tap straight to him. Milne's opponent is going to the contest whilst he drifts off the pack, so if Allen wasn't effective then Milne would have struggled to get a touch on the night.

Such a big step up from the AFL,would love to see them plonk the big Falcon (McEvoy) instead of Allen in the forward 50,all reports on this kids kicking and marking from Under 18s seem impressive,and a few things he did in his debut makes me think he is not out of his depth at this level,just needs the chance now to show what he has got ?:thumbsu:

[Squizzy1970]

Macca is a player all right. I think we'll see 20 games from him next year. This year (imo) is a little early for him as he's got some filling out to do. He's better below the knees than any of our other talls, so hopefully he can keep this whilst becoming more of a presence in ruck contests. Will do him no harm to play with Casey to get ruck time so that we have an instant replacement for King and Gardiner when required - rather than turning to Kosi who hasn't been great and given it robs us of forward line structure.

[Persevering Saint]

Chuck will definitely go. Fact is Roo is starting to play less as a half-forward and more as a "quarter-forward" getting it from 70-50m out and kicking to key forwards like Kosi and Allen. Chuck is simply not needed for that role, and is crap in the 50m. If anybody more is needed in there, bring back Birss or Ferguson - neither of them should have been dropped in the first place.

Bakes, Schneids and Xav will all need to play in the Scorps - anything less than that is a sign that all Ross's talk about youth and accountability needs to be seriously questioned.

I'd hate to see Mini dropped - I think he's done such a good job working his way back in, and I also think he's been pretty good, especially in the packs (guts galore).

[stfan]

Whatever our ins and outs are, against the Blues we will be fielding a pretty fair and well balanced team. If Hayes in an in though, I will be feeling very bullish about this game.

With Gram (whi is back in form) and Sam Fisher now rotating through the midfield we now have enough depth there.

Blake has been ok in a key defensive post and this importnatly has freed up Sam to rotated through the midfield.

Roo is looking very fit at last.

Kosi should be better for hus game against the Roos.

Gilbert was rusty first game back, but was ok against the Roos, and 2 weeks on should be better still.

[fraser25]

King with Kossie pinch hitting is enough, no need for M. Gardiner.

Bring in Schneider, maybe keep Charlie G in.

[ChrisFooty]

King with Kossie pinch hitting is enough, no need for M. Gardiner.

Bring in Schneider, maybe keep Charlie G in.

Thats not a bad point. However, having M Gardiner in could give us another forward option when not rucking (could stretch the Carlton backline)

[Squizzy1970]

King with Kossie pinch hitting is enough, no need for M. Gardiner.

Bring in Schneider, maybe keep Charlie G in.

Absolutely NO to all of that.

King & Gardiner is the right combination.

Kosi's ruckwork this year has been over-rated by many it seems.

Chucky was very poor two games in a row, and Allen provided a much better contest.

[Sir Robert]

Absolutely NO to all of that.

King & Gardiner is the right combination.

Kosi's ruckwork this year has been over-rated by many it seems.

Chucky was very poor two games in a row, and Allen provided a much better contest.

Agreed Allen - good. Chucky G - Bad (Based on this years form alone).

M Gardiner has got to come in if fit and Kosi can stay deep, or swap with Roo after he does some Richo style work.

I'd like to see Schneider in for his x-factor, maybe for Eddy or Mini, but to date these two blokes have shown more so his selection would be based on potential alone (which is where we've gone wrong in the past).

[SaintsSeptember]

It seems that the importance of a strong ruck is still a matter of discussion.
How important is it to win the ruck?
For example - Freo won in the ruck against the Saints but where did it get them?
My opinion is it is important to have a ruck that is good enough to stop the opposition doing what they want with it. That dosn't mean they need to get the tap every time. But it also depends on the opposition on game day, if they have a much stronger midfield it is then a bigger advantage to win the ruck.

[Squizzy1970]

Agreed Allen - good. Chucky G - Bad (Based on this years form alone).

M Gardiner has got to come in if fit and Kosi can stay deep, or swap with Roo after he does some Richo style work. :thumbsu:

I'd like to see Schneider in for his x-factor, maybe for Eddy or Mini, but to date these two blokes have shown more so his selection would be based on potential alone :thumbsu: (which is where we've gone wrong in the past).

Yep and yep.

[Squizzy1970]

It seems that the importance of a strong ruck is still a matter of discussion.
How important is it to win the ruck?
For example - Freo won in the ruck against the Saints but where did it get them?
My opinion is it is important to have a ruck that is good enough to stop the opposition doing what they want with it. That dosn't mean they need to get the tap every time. But it also depends on the opposition on game day, if they have a much stronger midfield it is then a bigger advantage to win the ruck.

King has controlled play when he's been in the ruck, so gives the on-ballers a chance. He's good at blocking space in defence.

Gardiner (when fit) is almost another runner. That's why he was AA. He runs forward and demands the ball. He also has a very strong hit-out % to advantage, which is what you are alluding to (no point getting meaningless taps).

[SaintsSeptember]

Fair enough, I do like the way Gardiner plays between the stopages, and I hope to see more of it as his fitness continues to improve.

[stfan]

King has controlled play when he's been in the ruck, so gives the on-ballers a chance. He's good at blocking space in defence.

Gardiner (when fit) is almost another runner. That's why he was AA. He runs forward and demands the ball. He also has a very strong hit-out % to advantage, which is what you are alluding to (no point getting meaningless taps).

King and Gardiner for me too.

The Blues actually have quitea good midfield now. So we need every edge that we can get.

[Sir Robert]

King has controlled play when he's been in the ruck, so gives the on-ballers a chance. He's good at blocking space in defence.

Gardiner (when fit) is almost another runner. That's why he was AA. He runs forward and demands the ball. He also has a very strong hit-out % to advantage, which is what you are alluding to (no point getting meaningless taps).

Also big difference Sandilands to junk player versus Junk player to Judd.

Winning hitouts to advantage is very important this week.

[CHBench]

St Kilda will receive a massive boost to its hopes of a top-eight finish this week if five key players return.
Ruckman Michael Gardiner (hamstring), tagger Steven Baker (knee), midfielders Lenny Hayes (hamstring) and Xavier Clarke (hamstring) and forward Adam Schneider (hamstring) will all face fitness tests before Friday night's match against Carlton.


In a bit of pickle weather to bring Schneider and Clarke straight in. I don't know why but i want Schneider in the side to provide another crumbing option. He could be very handy but on the other hand his form hasn't been too crash hot. Clarke needs a week at Casey to slowly get him back to match fitness. Baker will play imo, played against Willy and was good. One of McQualter or Eddy will be dropped for him. I'd prefer Eddy to stay in the side but who knows.

[The Punter]

Matthew Drain has confirmed Baker will spend another week as Casey. Clarke looks unlikely, but the other three look good.

So far I have Allen and C Gardiner out for M Gardiner and Hayes, with probably McQualter out for Schneider.

[beejay]

its good that we're getting back to a full strength team - its a bit of an interesting one - do you mess with stability as the team has won 2 in a row or bring in those players and hope that it doesnt mess the chemistry etc up. i agree c gardiner or allen out for gardiner although i think allen has offered a fair bit but one of them will have to go so kozi can stay forward and hayes in - id like to see schneider back only because what he CAN bring but he needs to actually do it especially if hes gonna come in and replace a promising youngster. Ive been impressed with eddy and mcqualter (never been a fan of the latter) but i think they have contributed well so far so lets hope if the 3 do come in they can have a big impact.

Definitely need gardi in i think with him and king we will be able to dominate cloke and kreuzer and hampson? whoever is playing ruck for them and thus prevent first hands for judd/stevens/murphy etc and give hayes and ball etc first use - def advantage we will have i think and if maxy can quell fev i can see us having a good win.

[wheels4]

m.gardiner in for allen (not up to it)

L.Hayes for McQualter ( trys hard but doesnt get enough of it)

Eddy deserves to keep playing he looks abit better than Allen

Maybe play Schneids, Bakes and X Man in the VFL for abit of match fitness

[Persevering Saint]

I am astounded at Schneids is being rushed back into the top team. The team is doing fine without him, and he should be played in the Scorps for a week to get his confidence back, then be ready for the Hawks game (which I'm going to!!).

[SaintsSeptember]

I am astounded at Schneids is being rushed back into the top team. The team is doing fine without him, and he should be played in the Scorps for a week to get his confidence back, then be ready for the Hawks game (which I'm going to!!).

He is Ross' little chum. Because he used to play for Sydney he must be much better than others who have only played for Saints. Obviously a vital player when viewed through red and white colored glasses.:rolleyes:

[Sir Robert]

m.gardiner in for allen (not up to it)

L.Hayes for McQualter ( trys hard but doesnt get enough of it)

Eddy deserves to keep playing he looks abit better than Allen

Maybe play Schneids, Bakes and X Man in the VFL for abit of match fitness

Very harsh and I disagree totally. This bloke looks up to it alright. He's played two games. Will get into the goals, is a good mark and appears to have a big tank.

[SaintsPremiers08]

noooooo......Bakes has to play!

[MIDDO]

Very harsh and I disagree totally. This bloke looks up to it alright. He's played two games. Will get into the goals, is a good mark and appears to have a big tank.

Hmmm get into the goals ? When , would have been handy if he kicked one or two in the last two matches as a key forward ? I can only hope he provides us with abit more than a contest or a great tank,we need goal kickers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

[TassieSaint]

He is Ross' little chum. Because he used to play for Sydney he must be much better than others who have only played for Saints. Obviously a vital player when viewed through red and white colored glasses.:rolleyes:
Agree, similarly I doubt Dempster will ever get dropped. Obviously Ross rates them both pretty highly, hopefully they can start proving him right.

[fraser25]

I am astounded at Schneids is being rushed back into the top team. The team is doing fine without him, and he should be played in the Scorps for a week to get his confidence back, then be ready for the Hawks game (which I'm going to!!).

errr I wouldn't exactly say the forwards are operating smoothly looking at last week. Milne can't be expected to kick four each week, he needs some help and these days most teams have more than one or two small forwards. Schneids in. What about Ferguson up forward? Where is he at?

Incase these postings seem weird, saints are sorta my second team I guess due to family members.

[SaintsSeptember]

errr I wouldn't exactly say the forwards are operating smoothly looking at last week. Milne can't be expected to kick four each week, he needs some help and these days most teams have more than one or two small forwards. Schneids in. What about Ferguson up forward? Where is he at?

Incase these postings seem weird, saints are sorta my second team I guess due to family members.

So far Schneider has proven that he can kick goals as accurately as Kosi can.
That is NOT a good thing.

[BigManFromMiniTown]

I beleive we still need to give our young guys a go. Being at the North Melbourne game in Cararra, for the first two quaters no one for saints played that well, and everyone looked flat. The last two quaters we had a few of our young guys step up with our regular best. McQ like everyone else didn't do much till half time, but from half time he was put on brett harvey and did an outstanding job. brett had 21 possys at half time and then 8 for the rest of the game, compared to McQ 10 in the last half and couple of inside 50's. It would be great to see if hes hitting his strides and give him a few more games, instead of taking away his momentum and putting back to the VFL.

[SaintsSeptember]

I beleive we still need to give our young guys a go. Being at the North Melbourne game in Cararra, for the first two quaters no one for saints played that well, and everyone looked flat. The last two quaters we had a few of our young guys step up with our regular best. McQ like everyone else didn't do much till half time, but from half time he was put on brett harvey and did an outstanding job. brett had 21 possys at half time and then 8 for the rest of the game, compared to McQ 10 in the last half and couple of inside 50's. It would be great to see if hes hitting his strides and give him a few more games, instead of taking away his momentum and putting back to the VFL.

I agree --- but...
Who do you leave out to fit him in, bearing in mind that some of us want to win.
Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo, Montagna , Armitage, Harvey?
Or try him in a different unfamiliar position?
Realistically he can only really take Armatage's spot.
I don't know what his personal circumstances are but he has had 3.5 years to prove himself an effective midfielder and has been leapfrogged by Armitage, Gilbert, Geary, Eddy and Attard. ( He was recruited as a first round pick 1 year before Dale Thomas if you want an indicator of how much he hasn't progressed ).
So as far as giving the young guys a go.. yes - Play Armitage and Gilbert, and maybe Eddy, and if, due to unfortunate circumstances we need another midfielder, McQualter can have a go.
Geary ( Recruited as a rookie 2 years after McQualter) is in a similar boat, he was great for Casey last weekend but who's spot does he take?

[BigManFromMiniTown]

I agree --- but...
Who do you leave out to fit him in, bearing in mind that some of us want to win.
Hayes, Ball, Dal Santo, Montagna , Armitage, Harvey?
Or try him in a different unfamiliar position?
Realistically he can only really take Armatage's spot.
I don't know what his personal circumstances are but he has had 3.5 years to prove himself an effective midfielder and has been leapfrogged by Armitage, Gilbert, Geary, Eddy and Attard. ( He was recruited as a first round pick 1 year before Dale Thomas if you want an indicator of how much he hasn't progressed ).
So as far as giving the young guys a go.. yes - Play Armitage and Gilbert, and maybe Eddy, and if, due to unfortunate circumstances we need another midfielder, McQualter can have a go.
Geary ( Recruited as a rookie 2 years after McQualter) is in a similar boat, he was great for Casey last weekend but who's spot does he take?

Gilbert and armitage I agree have been great. Especially gilby before he missed a few games. He is going to be a great footballer. Eddy, Geary, Attard and McQ are all in the same boat. Without the games they cant progress, and its going to hard with the talent of baker, hayes and M gardiner coming in. Schnider and C gardnier I see as being really inconsistant. McQ has had 3 bog and 3 in the best out of 8 games this year. He has played some awesome VFL football, and when he plays AFL he always been used as negating mid fielder. And last week when he got the nod to do it after half time, he did great. Put him on Juddy to take out their mid field. Ok a big ask, but he took down Brett harvey, and it the only way he and the others can grow by giving them challengers they can use to progress!

[Sir Robert]

Hmmm get into the goals ? When , would have been handy if he kicked one or two in the last two matches as a key forward ? I can only hope he provides us with abit more than a contest or a great tank,we need goal kickers !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!;)

He has been playing up the ground a bit as well tho. Freo he was constantly presenting up the wing. This was obviously a strategy of the coaching department else he wouldn't have been doing it all game.

But... Would be open to Ferguson coming in to let him develop further in the VFL. Either of these blokes as the third tall would be fine with me... Or Big Mac!

[foxy_dal]

What i think will happen:
OUT: Eddy, C. Gardiner, Allen, McQualter
IN: Hayes, M. Gardiner, Schnieder, Baker

What I want to happen:
OUT: Eddy or McQualter, C. Gardiner, Gwilt
IN: Hayes, M. Gardiner, Baker

I hope they give Schneider a week in VFL and if X. Clarke is fit i hope he plays VFL as well. Hayes is the obvious in and if Gardiner is fit he will play. Not sure on Bakers fitness but we need his agression at the contest. Unfortunantly one or two of Eddy, McQualter and Allen will have to make way.

[The Punter]

I have no desire to see McQualter dropped, but others are simply better than he is. He has done a great job reclaiming his career, but Hayes, M Gardiner and Schneider are superior options.

I can recall Adam Schneider had a handy game at the MCG towards the end of 2005. Horses for courses.

[Otiman]

What i think will happen:
OUT: Eddy, C. Gardiner, Allen, McQualter
IN: Hayes, M. Gardiner, Schnieder, Baker

What I want to happen:
OUT: Eddy or McQualter, C. Gardiner, Gwilt
IN: Hayes, M. Gardiner, Baker

No chance.

Out: C. Gardiner, Allen.
In: Hayes, M. Gardiner.

Possibly with the addition of Schneider for Eddy.

Bakes still a week away, Gwilt and Mini doing their jobs.

By the way, Mini is a ball winning midfielder, not a tagger. At the moment, we only really have Ball and Hayes in this role, so Mini is a must for our side. It's the reason he's gotten a gig ahead of Birss.

[sackers5]

No chance.

Out: C. Gardiner, Allen.
In: Hayes, M. Gardiner.

Possibly with the addition of Schneider for Eddy.

Bakes still a week away, Gwilt and Mini doing their jobs.

By the way, Mini is a ball winning midfielder, not a tagger. At the moment, we only really have Ball and Hayes in this role, so Mini is a must for our side. It's the reason he's gotten a gig ahead of Birss.

It's not everyday that you can agree with someones comments in its entirety ... but today is that day. Great stuff Otiman

[Squizzy1970]

Agree Oti's thoughts are pretty likely.

Shame for Woody, but I thought they were hasty bringing him up (but he surpassed my expectations based on Casey form and I thought contributed well in both games).

[foxy_dal]

No chance.

Out: C. Gardiner, Allen.
In: Hayes, M. Gardiner.

Possibly with the addition of Schneider for Eddy.

Bakes still a week away, Gwilt and Mini doing their jobs.

By the way, Mini is a ball winning midfielder, not a tagger. At the moment, we only really have Ball and Hayes in this role, so Mini is a must for our side. It's the reason he's gotten a gig ahead of Birss.

Didn't realise Bakes was a week away. Personally i would rather keep Allen then Gwilt because i see more of a future for Allen. Also agree that Mini has done his job and should retain his spot.

[CHBench]

Carlton

In: Judd
Out: Setanta

Looks like they are playing short, if big Gards comes back could really stretch their backline for height.