Cloke - Consistent?

[WakeUpTaz]

Firstly I love Cloke, lets get that out of the way.
Secondly i don't to get stupid and insult people but i will if you act stupid.

Now personally i don't think Cloke has been consistent this year but A LOT of people seem to think he is. Why?

[unplugged]

I didn't think many people had been calling him consistent?

[The Big League]

Consistent is not a word I would use to describe this current season to date.

[WakeUpTaz]

I didn't think many people had been calling him consistent?

Main board, 4 or 5 fans think he is and i really like to know why. Especially from Chase the Ace.

[Chase the Ace]

Main board, 4 or 5 fans think he is and i really like to know why. Especially from Chase the Ace.

I've done what now?

[WakeUpTaz]

I've done what now?

Why do you think Cloke is consistent?

[Chase the Ace]

Why do you think Cloke is consistent?

Oh, that's easy

Coz he is

[WakeUpTaz]

Oh, that's easy

Coz he is

Conclusion = Chase the Ace is a dummy.

Thanks for that. Why do you post on a discussion forum?

[Chase the Ace]

Conclusion = Chase the Ace is a dummy.

Thanks for that. Why do you post on a discussion forum?

Excuse me kind sir, where am I?
I seem to be a little lost, is this the way to Oz?

[WakeUpTaz]

Excuse me kind sir, where am I?
I seem to be a little lost, is this the way to Oz?

Yes this is, go 4 streets down, turn right and then turn left.

[Chase the Ace]

Ya know Toto, I don't think we are in Kansas anymore

[adzarani]

He is about as consistent as we have been as a side, probably a touch less, he went missing in a few close wins. Looked a million bucks against Richmond, Essendon, Geelong, WC and again last night.

Would be nice to see him grinding out 2-3 goals from limited opportunities against the run of play, as it stands 3 goals seems to be a great game for him, 5 goals a bag. I guess that measure (goals) is why some see him as consistent

0-1 goals= OK performance
2-3 goals= Great game...outstanding
4-5 goals= A bag.....superstar

For a more established key forward perception might be:

0-1 goals= Well held, beaten
2-3 goals= Got away from his marker at times / Missed key chances
4-5 goals= Gave the opposition real problems, Outstanding performance
6-8 goals= A Bag.....superstar

[MagpieGirl_13]

I don't think he's been very consistant this year, but he wasn't really last year either. This season he has shown some really good signs, I feel some aspects of his game have improved from last year.
He is very inconsistant infront of goals, probably not as bad as last year but isn't converting at 100% every game. Not that I feel he is expected to, most players aren't 100% accurate 100% of the time.
He is consistant, I feel, in the work he does around the ground. Always presenting, always leading up the ground and taking contested posessions.
The team hasn't been very consistant this season so that does affect how each player performs. When the team is firing & the midfielders are able to get it to our forwards players like Cloke are able to capitalise which is seen in the stats.
He gains a reasonable number of disposals each game, with only a few games under 10 disposals. He is getting the ball consistantly each game.

Consistency will come with experience, in a few years he will probably be performing more consistent.

Having said that, I think he is a very good player & should become a great player in years to come. For now, he is doing what is asked of him.

[WakeUpTaz]

He is about as consistent as we have been as a side, probably a touch less, he went missing in a few close wins. Looked a million bucks against Richmond, Essendon, Geelong, WC and again last night.

Would be nice to see him grinding out 2-3 goals from limited opportunities against the run of play, as it stands 3 goals seems to be a great game for him, 5 goals a bag. I guess that measure (goals) is why some see him as consistent

0-1 goals= OK performance
2-3 goals= Great game...outstanding
4-5 goals= A bag.....superstar

For a more established key forward perception might be:

0-1 goals= Well held, beaten
2-3 goals= Got away from his marker at times / Missed key chances
4-5 goals= Gave the opposition real problems, Outstanding performance
6-8 goals= A Bag.....superstar

IMO Cloke will never be a 3 goals per game forward. The main problem with Cloke is IMO in just about every game we have lost this year he had a bad game and he has only strung 2 good games together this year.(Geelong + WCE) Therefore i think he has been inconsistent, fair point though.

[Timmy from Thomastown]

IMO Cloke will never be a 3 goals per game forward. T.

Very few CHF's are. 3 goals is a huge average.

[WakeUpTaz]

Very few CHF's are. 3 goals is a huge average.

Which is pretty much my point, i think you can't rate Cloke's game on the number of goals he kicks.

Cloke is just like Collingwood, there is no in between this year, its either a good game or a bad game.

[the_fresh]

21 year old KKP who's learning about his game.

[adzarani]

All I was suggesting is the way Cloke's games are rated by the media/general public, and the reason some may perceive his season as being consistent.

For us it's much different we will look at everything he does 3-5 times.

The last thing I want is for Cloke to become another Aaron Hamil type kpp,
ferocious 1 per centers, flies the flag, leadership group blah blah , but 3 goals is a day out.

He is never going to average 3 goals a game, but low-high 2s as he pushes closer to goal isn't out of the question (atm he is just over 1). I mean the guys talent is enormous, but like the topic of this thread, consistency, particularly in a loosing side, is where he will make his next big improvement.

[The Royal Sampler]

Pretty hard to win a Copeland without being at least reasonably consistent, I would have thought. Plus he's a 21-or-so-year-old KPP, which would suggest the standard for consistency is even lower.

I'm not even remotely concerned about Cloke's consistency, to be perfectly honest.

[WakeUpTaz]

21 year old KKP who's learning about his game.

So what? He is still inconsistent. Age is not an excuse IMO.

[WakeUpTaz]

Pretty hard to win a Copeland without being at least reasonably consistent, I would have thought. Plus he's a 21-or-so-year-old KPP, which would suggest the standard for consistency is even lower.

I'm not even remotely concerned about Cloke's consistency, to be perfectly honest.

That was last season, the main issue with Cloke IMO is he has taken a step back this year while the other young KPPs (Roughead, Franklin and so on) has all taken a step forward. Cloke has all the tools to be great but he goes missing in nearly all of our losses.

Hopefully he rips if up next week and continue to play good footy for the rest of this year, we need it. Last thing Collingwood needs is for Bock to go on a rampage next week while Cloke does nothing.

[adzarani]

Pretty hard to win a Copeland without being at least reasonably consistent, I would have thought. Plus he's a 21-or-so-year-old KPP, which would suggest the standard for consistency is even lower.

I was flat on him against St Kilda & Melbourne. But at 21 coming of a Copeland season, you're right, it's not a massive concern.

The upside to his form this year is that he has gone with our midfield every time they have dominated.

Bottomline: we can trust Trav Cloke to fire when our midfield does, which is not something we have always been able to count on from our key forwards.

[Angelus512]

I'm going to put my hand up and say I don't fully understand the CHF "dynamics" all that well.

But isn't Buddy Franklin supposed to be a CHF same with J Brown? I guess my point is.....why are we never blessed with a CHF that kicks nice bags of goals?

Cloke is almost like a midfielder which is really wasting his big bodied/strong marking skills.
We should be seeing more goals from the bloke or I wish we could. Especially given his size and the lack of rocca I'm stunned he's not bagging more.

Having said that I love the Trav, glad we have him. Whenever the ball goes near him you just know he's going to mark it mostly.

[PendlePie]

Cloke's season has definitely not been consistent to date. Hopefully now the team and himself maintain their form against Sydney and can help push the team towards a top 4 finish.

[Chase the Ace]

Taz eh, that is really inconsistent, because Taz hasn't played for us for nearly 2 years.
Yup, there just might be something in this thread after all

[WakeUpTaz]

Way to bring down the intellligence level you moron.

[Seeks]

21 year old KKP who's learning about his game.

Spot on! Still 2-3 years away from his best footy, which is a scary thought for opposition sides. :D

Go Pies!:thumbsu:

[Faz 2000]

Here to discuss, not to troll.

I follow Trav closely because I got him in my keeper fantasy league last year, and retained him again for this season. There seems to be a big gap (particularly this year) between his best and worst games. Part of that is age, part of that is being a KP forward. But there is definitely room for him to raise the level of his "bad" games, and deliver his best more often.

When he has his best games, he is the most influential player on the ground. He's a beauty, and you're lucky to have him.

Just a few thoughts on why he's maybe having a les consitent year than last... do you think he's been affected by Rocca being absent so much this year? Rocca last year may well have drawn the #1 defender - perhaps Cloke is now drawing that attention?

Also, a strength of Cloke's is his long searching leads, and double-backs. And as with any player who builds their game around that, more preseasons and building a bigger engine will make him even more effective than he already is.

I think (and hope, for him) that consistency will come, because I rate him very highly.

[Helfarch]

A little less consistency with forearms to the head would be good.

[Chase the Ace]

A little less consistency with forearms to the head would be good.

MRP said it was a push

[unplugged]

Contact between Collingwood's Travis Cloke and Sydney's Lewis Roberts-Thomson from the fourth quarter of Saturday's match was assessed. Cloke's action was a push to the chest that slipped upwards, making incidental high contact. No further action was taken.

:) .

[Gopies 2002]

Franklin and Brown both play as full forwards. Brown played a similar role to Cloke when Lynch was still around and Franklin sometimes pushes further upfield. The majority of their game time is still as full forwards though.

I think part of the issue for Cloke is his best role is pushing further upfield (ie as a true CHF). However with Rocca struggling they have played him closer to goal and IMO he is still adapting to that role.

[Chase the Ace]

Franklin and Brown both play as full forwards. Brown played a similar role to Cloke when Lynch was still around and Franklin sometimes pushes further upfield. The majority of their game time is still as full forwards though.

I think part of the issue for Cloke is his best role is pushing further upfield (ie as a true CHF). However with Rocca struggling they have played him closer to goal and IMO he is still adapting to that role.

Finally someone talking some sense and worthy of a serious reply.

Cloke is used as MM sees fit. He would much prefer Travis to play that lead up CHF role, but injuries have prevented that, so MM has been using him much closer to goal.
When unthinking supporters see him doing something different they immediately think the worst and say he is not being consistent.
They fail to realise (primarily because they are thick) that he playing a role far different than he did last year.

[WakeUpTaz]

Finally someone talking some sense and worthy of a serious reply.

Cloke is used as MM sees fit. He would much prefer Travis to play that lead up CHF role, but injuries have prevented that, so MM has been using him much closer to goal.
When unthinking supporters see him doing something different they immediately think the worst and say he is not being consistent.
They fail to realise (primarily because they are thick) that he playing a role far different than he did last year.

Dominating one week and becoming a bystander the next week is consistent? Even with Rocca in the side Cloke's performance is never consistent, he either dominates or he dissapears and we usually lose when he does go missing (no shit). And so far he has gone missing too often.

What is his change in role? "Ok Clokely this week you go stand in the corner and do nothing, this sounds about right." Cloke needs to try harder to get himself into the match when the mids are down, which happens often.

Or he needs to tell Mick he doesn't like the bystander role

Hopefully he plays a good game this week with Fraser likely to be included.

[Chase the Ace]

Do you get toe jam?

[RRRooocccaaa]

Do you get toe jam?

Only when kicking the arse of Carlton Supporters...

But back on topic... Saturday's match is as good a pointer as any as to how our players can be on and off. Daisy breaks the shackles in the 1st and 2nd, gets the best defender on him and is suddenly quiet for the rest of the game.

Not dissimilar to Travis' efforts in the last 3. He was severely double-tagged in the Melbourne class and boy was he ropable. Then Setanta O'Hatpin plays the man instead of the ball and with some blind-siding by the umpires as to aforementioned Blues' behaviour he is forced to the point of frustration. BAM. 1 week off.

I'm more impressed he's bounced back this week. You knew he was going to get some attention, but JA and Woody managed to draw some attention as well as Daisy and it eases up on Travis. And suddenly it's back in it.

It's as much his teammates' responsibility as it is his to get back 'up'. They need to cover, block, swap, rattle and bump to make sure the defenders aren't able to do their job and bring our big fellas back into the game.

[Helfarch]

:) .
You know that's half luck and half Hall ;)

[shawthing09]

That was last season, the main issue with Cloke IMO is he has taken a step back this year while the other young KPPs (Roughead, Franklin and so on) has all taken a step forward. Cloke has all the tools to be great but he goes missing in nearly all of our losses.

Hopefully he rips if up next week and continue to play good footy for the rest of this year, we need it. Last thing Collingwood needs is for Bock to go on a rampage next week while Cloke does nothing.

Cloke has taken a step back in the absence of Rocca, where Rocca used to atract all the attention it has now been much more of Cloke's burden. He has been made play a bit deeper too where it is easier to zone off into his space.

As a team we have played worse too making it harder for a foward playing deeper.

Fowards like Roughhead and Franklin can't be compared to Cloke this year as they have had the benifit of each other clearing the space for them where as Cloke hasn't had that as much. Also it hasn't been a step back for him really as he is starting to become much more dangerous closer to goal in both his kicknig and contested marking in the foward 50 which is much more valuable then getting it on the long lead IMO.

[Pies4Premiers]

Travis is the biggest key to our team over the next 10+ years, he is an absolute star and is definetly a great player, anyone who bags him or any of his abilities are just stupid

[WakeUpTaz]

Travis is the biggest key to our team over the next 10+ years, he is an absolute star and is definetly a great player, anyone who bags him or any of his abilities are just stupid


No one is bagging Cloke. Maybe you should look in the mirror before calling anyone stupid.

[Chase the Ace]

He can't, you won't let anyone near it

[WakeUpTaz]

Do you get nappy rash?

[jackcass]

I would have thought that even the great CHF's weren't overly consistent in their first few years. Still just a pup, let him develop!

[Somebody]

Only when kicking the arse of Carlton Supporters...

But back on topic... Saturday's match is as good a pointer as any as to how our players can be on and off. Daisy breaks the shackles in the 1st and 2nd, gets the best defender on him and is suddenly quiet for the rest of the game.

Not dissimilar to Travis' efforts in the last 3. He was severely double-tagged in the Melbourne class and boy was he ropable. Then Setanta O'Hatpin plays the man instead of the ball and with some blind-siding by the umpires as to aforementioned Blues' behaviour he is forced to the point of frustration. BAM. 1 week off.

I'm more impressed he's bounced back this week. You knew he was going to get some attention, but JA and Woody managed to draw some attention as well as Daisy and it eases up on Travis. And suddenly it's back in it.

It's as much his teammates' responsibility as it is his to get back 'up'. They need to cover, block, swap, rattle and bump to make sure the defenders aren't able to do their job and bring our big fellas back into the game.Right which is why Anthony was so important vs Sydney. Quite possibly was the straw that broke Sydney's defensive back.

[adzarani]

When is Cloke going to be expected to hurt opposition sides on the scoreboard?

On the weekend he had several opportunities from set shots and didn't convert any, 3 didn't make the distance from 50. His only goal was essentially a crumbing effort.

He has kicked over half (12) his goals in 3 matches (Ess, Geel, WC) and 9 of those once the game was well and truly over.

He does spend time leading up the ground, but contrary to what many people have said, does spend plenty of time close to goal. I don't question his value as a marking target, but his ability to hurt the opposition on the scoreboard I do question.

He is approaching 75 games, is it fair to expect a better return on the scoreboard from him?

[Optimax]

those three games were when he played as a full forward, since he has been a lead up chf meaning no one expects five or six goals a game.

2 or 3 plus 15-20 possesions and 12 marks is expected

[Kirby]

His kicking was all over the place on Saturday but i suspect with his kicking style that those swirly wind days are always going to trouble him.

He's playing very well at the moment though and his hands are great.

Opti's right, when playing the lead up role I think 2-3 goals is a good return.

[adzarani]

those three games were when he played as a full forward, since he has been a lead up chf meaning no one expects five or six goals a game.

2 or 3 plus 15-20 possesions and 12 marks is expected

I guess you would be dissapointed with his season so far?

He is falling well short of your expectations averaging, 7.2 Marks, 13.5 Disp
and 1.6 Goals per game.

I was more talking about the expectation on him to convert opportunities, take his chances and do some damage on the scoreboard when the game is there to be won. Which for mine he has done against Geel. & Syd this year.

Against Geelong, we played a Pagan's paddock style setup so I guess you could call Cloke FF in that match.

But just because he starts 15-20m out from goal a centre bounce doesn't mean he is playing FF, he always leads up the ground, and he always has chances to mark well inside 50. For eg Pendlebury baiscally started as FF against WC and Lokyer spent time as FF against Ess.

To boldly declare that Cloke played FF in those 3 games, but up the ground in every other game just seems like a convienient off the cuff answer.

[Optimax]

I guess you would be dissapointed with his season so far?

He is falling well short of your expectations averaging, 7.2 Marks, 13.5 Disp
and 1.6 Goals per game.

I was more talking about the expectation on him to convert opportunities, take his chances and do some damage on the scoreboard when the game is there to be won. Which for mine he has done against Geel. & Syd this year.

Against Geelong, we played a Pagan's paddock style setup so I guess you could call Cloke FF in that match.

But just because he starts 15-20m out from goal a centre bounce doesn't mean he is playing FF, he always leads up the ground, and he always has chances to mark well inside 50. For eg Pendlebury baiscally started as FF against WC and Lokyer spent time as FF against Ess.

To boldly declare that Cloke played FF in those 3 games, but up the ground in every other game just seems like a convienient off the cuff answer.
I have been critical pof cloke this year, his best has been awesome but his worst has been poor, and he hasnt had two good games together apart from perhaps the past fortnight.

It wasnt an off the cuff response the game against essendon and west coast cloke was the main forward fifty focal point.

pendlebury was actually chf on johns and didnt start there and others were rotated as a lead up target including medhurst and lockyer and against west coast pendlebury started on the HFF on embley which was in fact right in front of where i was sitting a good 35 meters from teh goal square.

Yes cloke hasnt been cosistent but im not expecting a full forwards return when his job is to offer a focal point up at the wings and lead back afetr it

[adzarani]

My point is in every match he gets plenty of opportunity inside 50 whether he is playing the lead up role or not.

I guess what I am asking is, when do we start taking for granted that Cloke is a brilliant CHF and one of the best contested marks in the comp, stop being greatful that we have found a decent kpp, and start expecting him to take the next step?

Fair enough he has come off his copeland year etc, and Medhurst has taken the responsibility of chief goalkicker, but unless he makes more out of his opportunities he might not get any better. Most seem pretty content with how he is travelling, which is fair enough too, but when does he start to feel that he needs to finish off his hard work with 2-3 goals? atm it seems that goals are all he needs to become an elite player....

[Optimax]

but when does he start to feel that he needs to finish off his hard work with 2-3 goals? atm it seems that goals are all he needs to become an elite player....
i still dont feel he needs too, we never expected him to be our number 1 goal kicker, and i dont think that role would suit him any way.

2-3 goals in this role plus inside fifties and all the rest would make him an elite player.

[adzarani]

i still dont feel he needs too, we never expected him to be our number 1 goal kicker, and i dont think that role would suit him any way.

2-3 goals in this role plus inside fifties and all the rest would make him an elite player.

Fair Enough, but with Rocca likely to miss most of the finals series, I hope it happens sooner rather than later. A lot depends on Cloke imo.