View Full Version : Can the Cats shut down Buddy?
Although he's not in awesome form at the moment...we all know he doesnt stay down for long. Can Geelong (Scarlett, Harley, Milburn) shut down the Buddy machine?
I think they can, but it could also turn ugly if the structure falls apart
Give the job To Matty Scarlett then if he's not doing a good job you've got a few other options like Tom Harley etc.
Buddy Vision
6 Jul 2008, 18:03
Short answer: No
Long Answer: No way
Short answer: No
Long Answer: No way
lol whatever you think mate.
I can t really talk essendon didnt exactly shut him down either.
Fortress Hawk
6 Jul 2008, 18:14
Just put 4 players on him like other clubs do! Then roughy kicks 10 and we win!
Just put 4 players on him like other clubs do! Then roughy kicks 10 and we win!
Haha good call would do wonders for some peoples dreamteams
lion_gooner
6 Jul 2008, 18:30
it all depends on franklin
because if he has a day out no one can stop him even if you put 2 or 3 on him he would still win
but if he has a 1.6 game geelong wont need to worry about him
tigertiger
6 Jul 2008, 19:00
Just put 4 players on him like other clubs do! Then roughy kicks 10 and we win!
good plan but you will need to win the ball in the middle the cats are a 6 to 8 goal better team then the hawks at the moment.
The Hawks are barely a top-8 quality side without Franklin. If Franklin doesn't have a huge game, they'll be thrashed. :)
halfback dasher
6 Jul 2008, 20:01
Although he's not in awesome form at the moment...we all know he doesnt stay down for long. Can Geelong (Scarlett, Harley, Milburn) shut down the Buddy machine?
IMO.if buddy is on ,there is NO ONE in the comp that can shut him down,ask fletcher.......but every think has to go HIS way right from the start.:rolleyes:
halfback dasher
6 Jul 2008, 20:06
The Hawks are barely a top-8 quality side without Franklin. If Franklin doesn't have a huge game, they'll be thrashed. :)
PARROT...........what an apt name;)
cats2rise
6 Jul 2008, 20:15
Can the Hawks shut down Geelong?
No.
Harvey's Crew
6 Jul 2008, 20:20
Can the Hawks shut down Geelong?
No.
lol :D
Fortress Hawk
6 Jul 2008, 20:39
The Hawks are barely a top-8 quality side without Franklin. If Franklin doesn't have a huge game, they'll be thrashed. :)
The worst comment i have ever heard! you are a serious loser! budddy kicked 1 goal against adelaide who are a top 8 side and we won over there! when are people like you going to realise that we do have another forawrd player in the top 10 on the goal kickers list! How many clubs have 2 players in the top 10? Watch a game before you comment twit!
purremiers
6 Jul 2008, 20:44
If Geelong stick to their structures and double team him at the right time leaving their own player to help another out they should be ok! IMO they are the best in the comp at doing that!
But who knows either way bring on round 17!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I think it will be a big point of discussion down at Kardinia Park and Mark Thompson and his coaching staff will be definitely devising a plan to work against the the Hawthorn forward structure and well... the GFC coaching staff definitely have some good weapons to use in their attack.
I'd almost pick Tom Harley to play on Lance Franklin as I admire his ability to out mark his opponent... this would leave Scarlo to be a little more mobile in the defensive 50 in case of a Roughead and co. attack....
fishbowl
6 Jul 2008, 21:02
I do hope that Geelong are too interested in Franklin to their detriment. I hope you forget about Roughead and Williams.
I do hope that Geelong are too interested in Franklin to their detriment. I hope you forget about Roughead and Williams.
You don't think that the number one team in the AFL would be that naive do you?
If anything, I reckon Bomber Thompson would be downplaying the necessity of shutting down just Buddy as unnecessary. Which it is. If Geelong's back line play a good consistent game and keep their confidence I don't believe Hawthorn will stand a chance.
Yeah I reckon Buddy would have to make the most of his opportunities seeing as their midfield will be outclassed and I doubt he'll see half as much of the ball as he usually does.
Yeah I reckon Buddy would have to make the most of his opportunities seeing as their midfield will be outclassed and I doubt he'll see half as much of the ball as he usually does.
I have to agree that he won't see as much due to Cats midfield.
But if clarkson was smart and buddy was getting nothing up forward, they do have the option of playing him in a similar role as they did in the last quarter against Adelaide. Give him a bit more room to move dwon the wings like Matty Richardson and it may turn the game
james_omahoney
6 Jul 2008, 21:59
Although he's not in awesome form at the moment...we all know he doesnt stay down for long. Can Geelong (Scarlett, Harley, Milburn) shut down the Buddy machine?
Can they? Yes
Will they? I reckon he'll get 3 goals. Is that a shut-down? Not completely but it's still a good result considering he could potentially kick a lot more.
Simon_Nesbit
6 Jul 2008, 22:02
This game will be won and lost in the midfield. And in goal-shooting.
Geelong opponents are collectively the least accurate in the league, by quite some margin.
Hawthorn opponents are collectively the most accurate in the league, by quite some margin.
Geelong are one of the most accurate teams. Hawthorn are the most inaccurate.
Given the same number of scoring shots, the #'s indicate geelong would win by over 20% (ie 120-100, or 144-120).
They are 1 and 2 in I50 v Opp I50s.
Hawthorn convert more I50's to scoring shots than any other team, Geelong convert more I50's to goals than any other team.
If both teams are at close to full strength and in some sort of form, it will most likely come down to accuracy...
tigers_of_old_08
6 Jul 2008, 22:07
The Tigers shut him down so I can't see the Cats having any problem at all. They are a well-tuned footy-machine and should smash the hawkers come Rnd 17.
(That last bit actually rhymed)
Neville Bartos
6 Jul 2008, 22:41
I'd almost pick Tom Harley to play on Lance Franklin as I admire his ability to out mark his opponent... this would leave Scarlo to be a little more mobile in the defensive 50 in case of a Roughead and co. attack....
Fred Fanning will be turning in his grave if Harley lines up on Buddy. He's a good captain but would be annihilated by a young power forward. Mitch Thorp kicked 6 on him in his first year in the VFL!
Buddy will most likely play in and out of the forward line in this game depending on how it's going. Don't be surprised to see him released in the middle if things aren't going to plan (which against the cats it's fairly likely they won't!).
I'd be more worried about Roughie. He's improving out of sight each week, and Scarlett is the only player who can stop him. This means you'll have to play Milburn (too slow, too creative), Mackie (not strong enough) or Harry Taylor (1st year player).
I'd recommend Taylor to play on him. He had a woeful night against Cloke (the whole team barring Ablett was woeful), but has played well on mobile types like Riewoldt and Pavlich. Young defenders have done it best against Buddy this year, guys like Colin Garland, Kel Moore and Tom Williams
I doubt the Cats will attempt anything other than solid one-on-one defensive matchups.
Furthermore, I wouldn't expect either side to be pulling anything special out of the box of tricks at all.
The two above comments relate to the Round 17 clash only. Of course, should they meet in the finals it'll be a completely different story on both counts.
delirious1
6 Jul 2008, 22:59
The Tigers shut him down so I can't see the Cats having any problem at all. They are a well-tuned footy-machine and should smash the hawkers come Rnd 17.
(That last bit actually rhymed)
Shut down? didnt he kick 1.7 and miss about 2 out on the full? i wouldnt say he was great, but whoever was on him had his pants pulled down
i guess the cats can always let the ball get in their defensive 50 if scarlett starts getting bored.
Yeah I reckon Buddy would have to make the most of his opportunities seeing as their midfield will be outclassed and I doubt he'll see half as much of the ball as he usually does.
Exactly right.
I think Geelong's mids will have Hawthorn's mids covered. Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Selwood, Ling, plus the other 2 or 3 players that rotate through there should be able to cover whatever the hawks throw at them. If they get on top, which everyone barring Hawthorn fans expect them to Buddy wont see much of the ball, and the delivery he will get will be of lower quality that usual.
Buddy doesn't worry me. Neither does Roughead. Hawthorn will be no match for us.
tigers_of_old_08
7 Jul 2008, 05:07
Shut down? didnt he kick 1.7 and miss about 2 out on the full? i wouldnt say he was great, but whoever was on him had his pants pulled down
No he wasnt great, because he was kept to just 1 goal. As I said be prepared to get smashed by the Cats, Rnd 17. :)
Duskfire
7 Jul 2008, 06:43
Either Taylor or Mackie would play on him you would think, with Harley sweeping in front of cut him off as he does so often these days. Scarlett will definetly get Roughhead.
Gaz_Brownlow
7 Jul 2008, 07:37
Shouldnt people be asking the question, has Buddy actually ever dominated against the Cats? The simple answer being no - in fact he is liable to be exposed by Geelongs defence which will back themselves in everytime to run off and creat, ala what mackie did last year, and what Scarlett does on every so called dominant player.
Franklin will most likely kick a few, maybe 5 or 6, but when your direct opponents have their hand in just as many goals (which Scarlett, Mackie, Taylor and to a lesser extent Harley are likely to do), then it doesn't count for squat.
The real question should be, can the Hawks shut the Cats defensive unit down!!!
You have to admit that Buddy Franklin is the best going around and I don't think you can just say that they will shut him down. It all depends on how HE plays and how accurate HE is. It doesn't matter what the Cats do, if Buddy has a good day, he's completely unstoppable.
The worst comment i have ever heard! you are a serious loser! budddy kicked 1 goal against adelaide who are a top 8 side and we won over there! when are people like you going to realise that we do have another forawrd player in the top 10 on the goal kickers list! How many clubs have 2 players in the top 10? Watch a game before you comment twit!
Parrott is insecure to the fact that Carlton are hardly a top-14 side without Fev, and is looking for a foe to deflect these insecurities.
For some reason Parrott seems to think Hawthorn are no top 8 side without Franklin. Parrott doesnt really beleive this, but deflection is the best way to shelter Carlton's forward-line woes where Fev is the target on over 75% of fwd-line enteries. Fisher is a viable marking option up fwd however is kicking for goal is on Richo-parallels.
What Parrott doesnt realise is Franklin's head seems to be screwed on correctly and he wants success whereas Fev worries about one person and thats himself. All he craves is getting the last dollar out of Carlton whilst gloating about his contract negotiations through the media. Fev is his own one-man-army and doesnt realise he owes the club and not the other way. In saying this im 99% sure he will sign with Carlton after Pratt gets the Visy chq book out, then he will continue his dummy spits on the field for another 3 years (or 5 years if Carlton are gullible).
haywood jablome
7 Jul 2008, 11:05
Franklin will get his pants dropped and start getting frustrated. Geelong > Hawthorn.
Lunchlady Doris
7 Jul 2008, 11:14
Fred Fanning will be turning in his grave if Harley lines up on Buddy. He's a good captain but would be annihilated by a young power forward. Mitch Thorp kicked 6 on him in his first year in the VFL!
Come on neville, you are too smart to use that as evidence of anything.
Buddy will most likely play in and out of the forward line in this game depending on how it's going. Don't be surprised to see him released in the middle if things aren't going to plan (which against the cats it's fairly likely they won't!).
I'd be more worried about Roughie. He's improving out of sight each week, and Scarlett is the only player who can stop him. This means you'll have to play Milburn (too slow, too creative), Mackie (not strong enough) or Harry Taylor (1st year player).
I'd recommend Taylor to play on him. He had a woeful night against Cloke (the whole team barring Ablett was woeful), but has played well on mobile types like Riewoldt and Pavlich. Young defenders have done it best against Buddy this year, guys like Colin Garland, Kel Moore and Tom Williams
Agreed, Scarlett can neutralise Roughie, and a combo of Mackie/Taylor to try to quell Buddy.
Thaihawk
7 Jul 2008, 11:17
The Hawks are barely a top-8 quality side without Franklin. If Franklin doesn't have a huge game, they'll be thrashed. :)
When did you last chech the leading goalkickers?
Simon_Nesbit
7 Jul 2008, 11:37
Parrot's right. :eek:
If we played with only 17 men all year, we would only be 8-6, that's barely a top-8 side. :D
Rik E Boy
7 Jul 2008, 11:55
Shouldnt people be asking the question, has Buddy actually ever dominated against the Cats? The simple answer being no - in fact he is liable to be exposed by Geelongs defence which will back themselves in everytime to run off and creat, ala what mackie did last year, and what Scarlett does on every so called dominant player.
Franklin will most likely kick a few, maybe 5 or 6, but when your direct opponents have their hand in just as many goals (which Scarlett, Mackie, Taylor and to a lesser extent Harley are likely to do), then it doesn't count for squat.
The real question should be, can the Hawks shut the Cats defensive unit down!!!
I think Buddy got six against us in the fantastic effort that was round 22 2006, the match that Hawk fans like to use as irrefutable proof of their superiority over us.
regards,
REB
fishbowl
7 Jul 2008, 12:33
Buddy had kicked 1 goal in his attempts against West Coast.
Roughie had not kicked a goal in his 3 games against West Coast.
Darren Glass is an AA fullback, he could not keep Roughead or Franklin quiet.
kirbatron
7 Jul 2008, 12:37
Can the Cats stop Buddy?
It wont matter if we cant stop (to some degree) their midfield dominance and run.
I really fear that some of the Hawthorn players, being a big game in front of 95k will focus too much on Buddy (ala Nth semi) and kick it to him when he isnt the best option.
Geelong will have no problem picking off leads and i'm already getting frustrated.
If we lose we lose, but hopefully our mids can be smart enough and kick it to the best option.
All the players know its a big game and for a Hawthorn point of view, it'll be a great learning curve. Who will rise to the occasion? Who cant handle the heat?
Gaz_Brownlow
7 Jul 2008, 12:46
Buddy had kicked 1 goal in his attempts against West Coast.
Roughie had not kicked a goal in his 3 games against West Coast.
Darren Glass is an AA fullback, he could not keep Roughead or Franklin quiet.
Geez thats a good analogy - its like comparing West coast two years ago to west coast now!!!
Franklin is a good player yes, but there is a reason why Geelong are an extremely brutal Team and i think we will see this in September (who cares about Rnd 17!!). I think Hawthorn need to do just as much preparation in containing the geelong defense as they would do to their attack. Franklin and Roughead are an awesome combination and have ripped apart some defenses this year - but lets wait and see how well they can contain the Geelong defensive run. At this stage i would say a combined Scarlett, Harley, Hunt, Mackie, Enright, Milburn and Wojack will cause more damage than a Hawthorn forward structure.
W. Smithers
7 Jul 2008, 13:47
The Hawks are barely a top-8 quality side without Franklin. If Franklin doesn't have a huge game, they'll be thrashed. :)
Take away Fev's 61 goals and Carlton would be in the box seat for pick 1 and 4.
Hodgepodge
7 Jul 2008, 13:53
Just assume the Josh Gibson formation. 1 small defender to tackle him at ground level and two tall defenders in the air, plus a ruckman or tall forward to float across in front.
carn_the_cattas
7 Jul 2008, 14:19
Personally i'd have scarlett on roughead.
hunt on williams.
mackie on franklin (done the job in the past.)
allow harley to cut off opposition kicks like he has done all year.
Mervyn Beasley
7 Jul 2008, 14:26
If Geel have the All Aust midfield and the All Aus Full Back it should not be the slightest of problems.
Neville Bartos
7 Jul 2008, 14:28
Personally i'd have scarlett on roughead.
hunt on williams.
mackie on franklin (done the job in the past.)
allow harley to cut off opposition kicks like he has done all year.
The hawks would just bomb it in to Franklin one on one vs Mackie, and considering Buddy has outmuscled guys like Glass, Rutten and Nathan Brown already this year, I don't think Mackie would be able to stop him.
This is all inconsequential anyway. This game will be won/lost in the midfield as it usually is
Hodgepodge
7 Jul 2008, 14:30
Personally i'd have scarlett on roughead.
hunt on williams.
mackie on franklin (done the job in the past.)
allow harley to cut off opposition kicks like he has done all year.
Yup, that was why the put Kris Massie on him last year cos he "done the job in the past" . . . i wouldn't put much stock in a 1 goal game by Franklin, prior to last round he'd only ever kicked 1 goal against West coast.
What Geelong did extremely well against Adelaide was slow down their ball movement from the backline. This gives Geelong's defensive structure time to set up, and when the ball finally gets down there (provided its not turned over beforehand), there's always someone to zone off and help their teamate.
Same applies to Buddy. If the Cats forwards and midfield can slow the Hawks down, it won't really matter who plays on Buddy, because Harley, Enright, Milburn etc will be there to lend a hand and rebound. But if the Hawks are able to get the ball quickly in to Buddy in one-on-one situations, then it's really just a question of whether Buddy's radar is on, because he'll beat just about anyone nine times out of ten in that situation.
FWIW i reckon Scarlett will get Roughead and attempt to run off the less mobile forward. Mackie or Taylor for Franklin, with Harley and Milburn to come off their direct opponents to help at every opportunity.
Macquarie Eagle
7 Jul 2008, 14:46
Geelong will be coming off a bruising game against the Bulldogs. Buddy will rip their sore bodies a new one and by the end of the match his season goal tally will be 84.
Hawks by 13 Points!
cat in sydney
7 Jul 2008, 15:17
Yup, that was why the put Kris Massie on him last year cos he "done the job in the past" . . . i wouldn't put much stock in a 1 goal game by Franklin, prior to last round he'd only ever kicked 1 goal against West coast.
As mentioned earlier, that's a useless point.
West Coast (up until this year) have been a dominant side, which means Franklin only kicked one goal.
Now that West Coast are crap, he kicks more.
The scary thing is, when Hawks and Cats played last (Rd4 2007), the Cats were ordinary - and yet Franklin still only managed to kick one goal. How many will he get now that the Cats are good?
cat_fanatic_21
7 Jul 2008, 18:06
As mentioned earlier, that's a useless point.
West Coast (up until this year) have been a dominant side, which means Franklin only kicked one goal.
Now that West Coast are crap, he kicks more.
The scary thing is, when Hawks and Cats played last (Rd4 2007), the Cats were ordinary - and yet Franklin still only managed to kick one goal. How many will he get now that the Cats are good?
I think he will kick 4 goals playing on Taylor and Milburn/Mackie. Remember, Lance has improved since we last played them too.
The thing is, teams that are too Lance conscious allow Roughead to sneak under the radar and boot five or six, but this wont happen because he will be on Scarlett. The battle will be won in the middle and if Hawthorn are to win it will take an awesome midfield and small forward effort. Williams might be the key for them.
Clean Heels
7 Jul 2008, 20:25
Considering the Kangas midfield smashed Hawthorns - then Geelongs shouldnt have too many worries..
IMO Hawthorn are still at least a yr away from being dominant, they will learn a lot from facing such a battle hardened outfit like Geelongs..
If Hawthorn had a decent ruckman, id nearly entertain a possibility of them having a winning chance - as Geelongs Blake isnt much chop.
If Hawthorn had a decent ruckman, id nearly entertain a possibility of them having a winning chance - as Geelongs Blake isnt much chop.
Mate Hawthorns a pretty good side you're treating it like they have no hope. There's no doubt they can win the game.
The worst comment i have ever heard! you are a serious loser! budddy kicked 1 goal against adelaide who are a top 8 side and we won over there! when are people like you going to realise that we do have another forawrd player in the top 10 on the goal kickers list! How many clubs have 2 players in the top 10? Watch a game before you comment twit!
So by that, you admit that all Franklin can do is kick goals?
Geelong can certainly shut down Franklin, if they commit to that objective hard enough. But can they shut down Franklin, Roughhead, Williams, Rioli, Osbourne, Hodge (fingers crossed it's a 100% healthy baby born long enough before or after this game for Hodgy to match up), Crawford, Bateman, Sewell (heal FAST, keyhole...), Lewis, Ladson, Campbell etc.
The best question to ask about round 17 is can Hawthorns "rolling zone" put a lid on Geelong's dominance of possession quality through the midfield?
Yes. It can.
Duskfire
8 Jul 2008, 00:38
Geelong can certainly shut down Franklin, if they commit to that objective hard enough. But can they shut down Franklin, Roughhead, Williams, Rioli, Osbourne, Hodge (fingers crossed it's a 100% healthy baby born long enough before or after this game for Hodgy to match up), Crawford, Bateman, Sewell (heal FAST, keyhole...), Lewis, Ladson, Campbell etc.
The best question to ask about round 17 is can Hawthorns "rolling zone" put a lid on Geelong's dominance of possession quality through the midfield?
Yes. It can.
Well, its the same with geelong too. Granted none of our forwards are huge goal kickers, but we have a much more even spread of contributers then the Hawks. Lets say that Franklin and Roughhead were stopped, as well as Mooney and Loners; its a pretty safe bet who would win.
Not to mention Geelongs style of play matches up well against the Hawks zoning. Its one of the exact reasons that North were able to beat you the second time around, as well as the Bulldogs.
Simon_Nesbit
8 Jul 2008, 11:05
Ah...clean heels, our ruck is one of our strengths at the moment. Granted Taylor's coming back from a gashed knee, Renouf's suspended and Bailey's done his knee again - but Campbell (and pre-rd.12 Taylor) were both in the top 6 most effective ruckman.
Dusky, the difference (hopefully) is we will be able to play a slightly more experienced lineup than those that played against Kangas and Dogs.
As I said earlier, this game will most likely come down to goal-kicking. Whether by design or luck, Geelong's opponent are consistently the most inaccurate, whilst Hawthorn's are the most accurate. Down the other end, Geelong are near the top of accuracy, Hawks dead last.
If Hawthorn kick straight, and both teams perform at their best, we win. That's rather doubtful though. More likely is we will have 2-3 more scoring shots, and lose by 20.
We're still 2-3 seasons behind you in development/list structure - and having key players (Sewell, Bateman, Crawf, Hodge all possibly missing) in our midfield unavailable doesn't help.
Although he's not in awesome form at the moment...we all know he doesnt stay down for long. Can Geelong (Scarlett, Harley, Milburn) shut down the Buddy machine?
Mackie has shut him down previously plus we have Taylor as an option.
Taylor has shut down a fair few key fwds this season.
Our backlin ehasnt had a bag kicked on it for a long time....Hawks need to be more concerned about getting their hands on the ball and then spreading the goals around...something they havent done all year.
Hodgepodge
8 Jul 2008, 12:24
As mentioned earlier, that's a useless point.
West Coast (up until this year) have been a dominant side, which means Franklin only kicked one goal.
Now that West Coast are crap, he kicks more.
The scary thing is, when Hawks and Cats played last (Rd4 2007), the Cats were ordinary - and yet Franklin still only managed to kick one goal. How many will he get now that the Cats are good?
There's that word 'scary' again, totally overused. Good or bad, doesn't matter, he kicks goals on the all sorts of teams, we actually beat the Coasters very convincingly last year when they were good . . . and still only the one goal. But i certainly hope they leave Mackie on him the whole game, that'd be nice.
AngelEyes
8 Jul 2008, 12:35
With all due respect to Hawthorn fans who keep blurting on who Geelong has to shut down in order for them to beat Hawthorn, I don't see who Geelong have to really shut down besides Roughhead and Franklin. I would go to suggest that most Geelong players are better than their Hawthorn position-sake with the exclusions of Roughhead and Franklin.
Roughhead and Franklin may be better than the Geelong key forwards but you also have to remember you are playing one of the best defences of the modern era. Lets not forget this defence has been formidable since the early 2000s.
Geelong will most likely go with Mackie on him as he is relatively fast and tall. Somewhat of a good match up for Franklin and I know that Hawthorn fans will suggest that was what was said about Paddy Ryder too but you have to put it in context. Mackie will be helped out by the Geelong midfield limiting Hawthorn's entries and when it enters, the Hawthorn midfield will be under alot more pressure than against Essendon. The quantity and quality in comparison to what Franklin recieved against Essendon will diminish severly.
Harley will likely, as he does everyweek, chop across the front of the ball coming in. This works against most opponents and I don't see why it would not work against Franklin. Its not so much about beating the player but beating the ball in and Geelong do it extremely well. Geelong's defence do this consitently but it allows them to drive hard out of defence, Franklin will have to be ultra disciplined not to allow Mackie to run and create. Geelong are masters at this.
Its Hawthorn that have match up problems as every time they suggest a good player (except Franklin and Roughhead), Geelong can name an equivalent of super quality. Not many teams can go up against a Hodge and Mitchell and raise them an Ablett and Bartel - very possibly the Brownlow medalists from 2007 and 2008. Geelong have superior depth and will likely smash them. Geelong won't be affraid of Hawthorn. Why would they?
PoidaCat
8 Jul 2008, 12:50
can The Hawks Shut Down Geelong?
No.
Absolutely Pwned. :D :D
Macquarie Eagle
8 Jul 2008, 13:01
I'm not expecting to win but if we do, your name has been added to the list of people to hunt down and laugh at.
Big_Tazz
8 Jul 2008, 13:21
who cares if we cant shut down buddy.... buddy can kick 5 and roughy can kick 10, and we would still win the game... their practically the only 2 players that kick the goals for them anyway...
kirbatron
8 Jul 2008, 13:22
Absolutely Pwned. :D :D
Poida, the OP was an Essendon supporter, i dont think he gives a shit.
Mackie has shut him down previously plus we have Taylor as an option.
Taylor has shut down a fair few key fwds this season.
Our backlin ehasnt had a bag kicked on it for a long time....Hawks need to be more concerned about getting their hands on the ball and then spreading the goals around...something they havent done all year.
You're deluded if you think the Mackie can do it again.
Prior to the Geelong game, Franklin had kicked 54 goals in 32 matches, since that game he's kicked 127 goals in 40 matches.
The Hawks would isolate Franklin and Mackie in the Goal Square
With all due respect to Hawthorn fans who keep blurting on who Geelong has to shut down in order for them to beat Hawthorn, I don't see who Geelong have to really shut down besides Roughhead and Franklin. I would go to suggest that most Geelong players are better than their Hawthorn position-sake with the exclusions of Roughhead and Franklin.
Roughhead and Franklin may be better than the Geelong key forwards but you also have to remember you are playing one of the best defences of the modern era. Lets not forget this defence has been formidable since the early 2000s.
Spot on AngelEyes.
Of all the teams in the competition Geelong are best placed to limit his effectiveness because the defence works so well as a complete unit, plus having the best midfield going around limits the quantity/quality of ball supply into the oppositions forward fifty.
On top of that I think we could concede him five or six goals without to many worries anyway, after all he and Roughhead kicked nine between them against the Bulldogs yet still the Hawks were absolutely smashed.
Well, its the same with geelong too. Granted none of our forwards are huge goal kickers, but we have a much more even spread of contributers then the Hawks. Lets say that Franklin and Roughhead were stopped, as well as Mooney and Loners; its a pretty safe bet who would win.
Not to mention Geelongs style of play matches up well against the Hawks zoning. Its one of the exact reasons that North were able to beat you the second time around, as well as the Bulldogs.
Only too true. The game will most probably be won in the midfield. That being said, if Buddy and/or Roughy are on, Hawthorn could win the game against the run of play. Probably only Steve Johnson is really that dangerous in your forward line.
fishbowl
8 Jul 2008, 13:45
I might be repeating myself but it is no good one team winning in Round 17 and losing or not making the Grand Final.
The best question to ask about round 17 is can Hawthorns "rolling zone" put a lid on Geelong's dominance of possession quality through the midfield?
Yes. It can.
Want to do a slightly better job then you did against the doggies then. :)
You ain't just whistlin' Dixie brother...
Tristagi
8 Jul 2008, 15:05
Andrew Mackie killed him last year in Tassie so put him on Franklin with Milburn/Harley dropping off to help should be fine :thumbsu: keep him to 3 or 4, Scarlett will do a job on Roughead and game, set, match.
Lunchlady Doris
8 Jul 2008, 16:13
I might be repeating myself but it is no good one team winning in Round 17 and losing or not making the Grand Final.
Very sensible fishbowl, does that mean you won't come gloating if the Hawks get up?
Geez thats a good analogy - its like comparing West coast two years ago to west coast now!!!
Franklin is a good player yes, but there is a reason why Geelong are an extremely brutal Team and i think we will see this in September (who cares about Rnd 17!!). I think Hawthorn need to do just as much preparation in containing the geelong defense as they would do to their attack. Franklin and Roughead are an awesome combination and have ripped apart some defenses this year - but lets wait and see how well they can contain the Geelong defensive run. At this stage i would say a combined Scarlett, Harley, Hunt, Mackie, Enright, Milburn and Wojack will cause more damage than a Hawthorn forward structure.
What so you think clarkson is just going to let it happen? don't get too ahead of yourself mate. I should think Clarko will make the geelong defenders accountable to their men and more importantly have them more worried about us then creating drive and run off half back. The key will be how our rolling zone handles the way the cats move the ball through the zone. Must put the cats under pressure coming out of the backline.Harley MUST be made accountable (should bring back boyle only to use a decoy and draw harley away from where the ball ends up in the forward line), this will go a long way to us having a chance in this game because the midfield's are nearly 50/50 geelong slightly in front, geelong forward line isn't their strength as much as our backline is not our strength and we should match up well on them (Croad/Mooney) (Brown/Johnson) are a couple of good matchups. What is going to be the deciding factor in this game is how many of geelong's midfielders running forward of centre we are able to stop from kicking goals which is the hallmark of geelong's game.
You're deluded if you think the Mackie can do it again.
Prior to the Geelong game, Franklin had kicked 54 goals in 32 matches, since that game he's kicked 127 goals in 40 matches.
The Hawks would isolate Franklin and Mackie in the Goal Square
Don't listen to Dermott too much. Even I can tell you how to get around that.
Hodgepodge
8 Jul 2008, 17:51
The only person who can beat Buddy is himself.
The only person who can beat Buddy is himself.
Good Call
good plan but you will need to win the ball in the middle the cats are a 6 to 8 goal better team then the hawks at the moment.
and you're being nice.
They beat the eagles by 135 and we beat them by 57. Bit more than 6-8 goals last time I used a calculator!!!:)
Andrew Mackie killed him last year in Tassie so put him on Franklin with Milburn/Harley dropping off to help should be fine :thumbsu: keep him to 3 or 4, Scarlett will do a job on Roughead and game, set, match.
I'm hoping that Milburn will be matched up with Cyril or Williams. This could give them the leeway to slot in a few if he does try to run off and get in front of Buddy/JR.
Either way I think it will give a young squad a taste of what late September is all about.
Eel_storm
9 Jul 2008, 13:38
Buddy>Israel Folau . . . thoughts?
The Sim Dog
9 Jul 2008, 23:46
Better question is can we shut down the Hawks midfield because if we do then Franklin does not see the ball apart from on the wing which is fine by me.
The Sim Dog
9 Jul 2008, 23:49
You're deluded if you think the Mackie can do it again.
Prior to the Geelong game, Franklin had kicked 54 goals in 32 matches, since that game he's kicked 127 goals in 40 matches.
The Hawks would isolate Franklin and Mackie in the Goal Square
Well he just did a pretty good job on Burton. He's the closest thing to Franklin that exists. And if Franklin is anchored to the goal square that is a win for Geelong. If Hawks midfield are good enough to get it to him that deep often enough it won't matter who is on him.
Well he just did a pretty good job on Burton. He's the closest thing to Franklin that exists. And if Franklin is anchored to the goal square that is a win for Geelong. If Hawks midfield are good enough to get it to him that deep often enough it won't matter who is on him.
Wasn't that supposedly Ryder?
I agree with your sentiments, though it won't be the 8-10 goal belting most people think IMO.
Jason Baker
10 Jul 2008, 13:43
Geelong will tear up the Hawks...too many injuries to key players for Hawthorn.
Geelong are just kicking into gear now.
Buddy will have to kick 8 for the Hawks to win.
Hodgepodge
10 Jul 2008, 18:17
Andrew mackie's a small isn't he? the closest thing to franklin will probably be natanui or adam goodes and i wouldn't back either of those to stop him
Cattery
10 Jul 2008, 18:49
Guess we should qualify exactly what constitutes shutting him down, and also just how critical it will be to the result anyway; think he'll almost need to kick double figures for the Hawks to have a chance of getting over the line and I can't see that happening, if he kicks five or six I don't think the Cats will be all that concerned, after all he kicked five against the Dogs, nine combined with Roughhead, and it had no bearing on the result with the Hawks still copping a shellacking.
The Sim Dog
10 Jul 2008, 20:27
Andrew mackie's a small isn't he? the closest thing to franklin will probably be natanui or adam goodes and i wouldn't back either of those to stop him
He is 192 cm. Not as tall as Lance but consider our other options:
Scarlett: Franklin will drag him outside D50 or further out from goal then we like. Will outrun and outwork him. I just can't see us doing it unless Hawthorn seem dedicated at leaving Franklin very deep no matter what (which won't happen).
Harley: Just no.
Milburn: Would like to think we could use his intelligence and reading of the play to give himself a chance but still not ideal at this stage of his career. Lacks the speed and we'd prefer him not on someone he will have to stay so close too.
Taylor: Been great. Not a bad match up for size (considering our other options) but probably not experienced enough for such an assignment. Probably not quick enough or able to run hard enough at this stage either.
Mackie: Is as tall as any of our other options (-1cm to Taylor). Has the speed, endurance, experience and hopefully the brains to be in the best spot (if that exists). Franklin will out reach him but who would he not do that too. As I said if Mackie is being isolated and Franklin getting the ball like that we deserve to lose and Franklin will kick goals regardless.
There is no great, good or even average match up for Franklin in the league. You can only use what you have. Rider is the best by size and attributes and in time with a better team behind him will be better equipped than anyone else but even he had 9 kicked on him this year.
Andy by saying 'closest thing to Franklin that exists' I meant as a forward (Burton).
Geelong will tear up the Hawks...too many injuries to key players for Hawthorn.
Geelong are just kicking into gear now.
Buddy will have to kick 8 for the Hawks to win.
Most of our injury concerns have subsided.
Fingers crossed we should have a full strength/close to full strength side in place for the match.
He is 192 cm. Not as tall as Lance but consider our other options:
Scarlett: Franklin will drag him outside D50 or further out from goal then we like. Will outrun and outwork him. I just can't see us doing it unless Hawthorn seem dedicated at leaving Franklin very deep no matter what (which won't happen).
Harley: Just no.
Milburn: Would like to think we could use his intelligence and reading of the play to give himself a chance but still not ideal at this stage of his career. Lacks the speed and we'd prefer him not on someone he will have to stay so close too.
Taylor: Been great. Not a bad match up for size (considering our other options) but probably not experienced enough for such an assignment. Probably not quick enough or able to run hard enough at this stage either.
Mackie: Is as tall as any of our other options (-1cm to Taylor). Has the speed, endurance, experience and hopefully the brains to be in the best spot (if that exists). Franklin will out reach him but who would he not do that too. As I said if Mackie is being isolated and Franklin getting the ball like that we deserve to lose and Franklin will kick goals regardless.
There is no great, good or even average match up for Franklin in the league. You can only use what you have. Rider is the best by size and attributes and in time with a better team behind him will be better equipped than anyone else but even he had 9 kicked on him this year.
Andy by saying 'closest thing to Franklin that exists' I meant as a forward (Burton).
Does he have the strength?
Geelong won't go one on one with him, they'll probably rotate 2 players off Franklin and Roughead and bank on Williams and Rioli having a low return.
Of course that will stand for nothing if we don't get the ball into the forward line, though at full strength I'm confident, actually hopeful that our midfield can hold their own.
Geelong's corridor and handball happy gameplan worries me, given its the one tactic that clubs have successfully used to counter the Hawks full ground zone.
It says alot about the hype surround this game that we're talking match ups 3 weeks out, even with Geelong playing a top of the table clash (at least at the moment) game against the Bulldogs, first and foremost.
This game promises alot, hopefully it delievers.
The Sim Dog
11 Jul 2008, 13:40
Does he have the strength?
Geelong won't go one on one with him, they'll probably rotate 2 players off Franklin and Roughead and bank on Williams and Rioli having a low return.
Of course that will stand for nothing if we don't get the ball into the forward line, though at full strength I'm confident, actually hopeful that our midfield can hold their own.
No he does not but as I said the others that do (Scarlett, Harley) are still worse suited to Franklin in other areas. Scarlett will take Rough and Harley on Williams or another small to medium forward. Harley and Milburn will look to chop out when they can. Enright, Rooke etc will have to try pick up Franklin if he gets away up the ground. Is not a one man job.
Even if we have Egan in I believe Mackey would still get the job of following Franklin.
The Cryptkeeper
11 Jul 2008, 16:45
Mackie has shut him down previously plus we have Taylor as an option.
Taylor has shut down a fair few key fwds this season.
Our backlin ehasnt had a bag kicked on it for a long time....Hawks need to be more concerned about getting their hands on the ball and then spreading the goals around...something they havent done all year.
Just when you think that you have read all the bullshit out there, this one pops up.
Go back and have a look at Hawthorn's spread of goalkickers. Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Williams, Osborne, Rioli and others have all been multiple goalkickers in various games this year, and often at the same time. Plenty of other blokes have chipped in as well.
The overwhelming reason that Geelong has a wider spread of goal kickers most weeks is because their key forwards are not able to get the job done. You see, when you have Roughead and Franklin as your two key forwards and a guy like Williams chipping in you don't need as many goals from the midfield. Hawthorn is reliant on a more traditional forward structure whereas Geelong needs to get goals from a number of sources. This is where Hawthorn will win the game. The nuts and bolts of it is that if Hawthorn can break even in the midfield, the firepower that they have in their forward fifty will be too much for Geelong to handle.
Conversely, if Geelong win the midfield convincingly then they will have enough goalkickers to post a winning score. That is a big "if" though. As much as you Geelong people love to believe that you are vastly superior to Hawthorn in the middle, this point of view is just nonsense. Hodge, Mitchell and Sewell are elite midfierlders. Crawford, Lewis and Bateman are so close to elite that it is not funny. Hawthorn's rucks are far superior to Geelongs. The midfield battle is a coin toss.
Amid all of the carry on, Hawthorn have lost only two matches this season despite having Sewell, Hodge, Crawford, Mitchell, Lewis and Bateman all missing for extended periods. I wonder how Geelong would be travelling if Ablett, Ling, Bartel, Corey, Chapman and Selwood had collectively missed as much football as their Hawthorn counterparts.
The Sim Dog
11 Jul 2008, 19:47
Just when you think that you have read all the bullshit out there, this one pops up.
Go back and have a look at Hawthorn's spread of goalkickers. Franklin, Roughead, Hodge, Williams, Osborne, Rioli and others have all been multiple goalkickers in various games this year, and often at the same time. Plenty of other blokes have chipped in as well.
The overwhelming reason that Geelong has a wider spread of goal kickers most weeks is because their key forwards are not able to get the job done. You see, when you have Roughead and Franklin as your two key forwards and a guy like Williams chipping in you don't need as many goals from the midfield. Hawthorn is reliant on a more traditional forward structure whereas Geelong needs to get goals from a number of sources. This is where Hawthorn will win the game. The nuts and bolts of it is that if Hawthorn can break even in the midfield, the firepower that they have in their forward fifty will be too much for Geelong to handle.
Conversely, if Geelong win the midfield convincingly then they will have enough goalkickers to post a winning score. That is a big "if" though. As much as you Geelong people love to believe that you are vastly superior to Hawthorn in the middle, this point of view is just nonsense. Hodge, Mitchell and Sewell are elite midfierlders. Crawford, Lewis and Bateman are so close to elite that it is not funny. Hawthorn's rucks are far superior to Geelongs. The midfield battle is a coin toss.
Amid all of the carry on, Hawthorn have lost only two matches this season despite having Sewell, Hodge, Crawford, Mitchell, Lewis and Bateman all missing for extended periods. I wonder how Geelong would be travelling if Ablett, Ling, Bartel, Corey, Chapman and Selwood had collectively missed as much football as their Hawthorn counterparts.
So in response to that 'bull shit' you post a whole lot of pathetic ignorant garbage in response. :rolleyes: Typical bigfooty Hawthorn supporter crap. As for your 'we have been missing players' crap Hawthorn have used one more player than Geelong has this year and it is not our fault if certain Hawthorn players are stupid enough to get suspended time and time again. As for how Geelong would handle the same injuries/suspensions.. Prismall is back in the reserves. Plus a bigger percentage would indicate Geelong have been winning with enough in reserve to say they would have won anyway.