An overabundance of young KPP forwards

[PendlePie]

Hey guys. It's obvious that we have many young KPP players, particularly forwards. The likes of Rusling, Reid, Cloke and Dawes are all under 22 years of age, yet we will eventually have to trade at least one of these players off. Cloke is our CHF and hopefully will be for the next 10 years. Reid is our most likely replacement for Rocca IMO.

The question is, what should our forwardline structure look like in the future, and which one of these four players will we not require, and therefore should trade? Personally I think Cloke/Reid will be our CHF/FF combination for many years (after Rocca retires). So I think one of Rusling/Dawes should be traded in the near future.

[OniAu]

how can you pick reid over dawes, when dawes hasnt had the chance to prove himself at afl level. also young forwards take a few years to develop, i dont think the club intended to take two young forwards in the same draft to trade one off without having the chance to prove himself.

rusling has shown he can perform at afl level with the limited chances he has had because of unfortunate injuries, people say he is one dimensional, which they are entitled too but if hes had his chances taken away from him without being able to develop then its a harsh call.

only reason youd get rid of rusling is the injury prone factor, but he has shown with his leading he can damage some sides as that third forward option.

[PendlePie]

Thats just my opinion. I might change my mind if Dawes gets some game time and shows more, but we cannot keep all four of those forwards. Would suit us to trade one off in the near future for a midfielder - Prismall for example.

[OniAu]

Thats just my opinion. I might change my mind if Dawes gets some game time and shows more, but we cannot keep all four of those forwards. Would suit us to trade one off in the near future for a midfielder - Prismall for example.

true and i suppose we have the likes of brown and anthony who can swing forward if need be . but you gotta let the likes of dawes and reid prove themselves a bit more before making a decision to trade.

[PendlePie]

Brown should continue to develop as a defender. Wakes and Presti and near the end, and we desperately need a tall key back to replace them. Brown looks to fit into this position perfectly. Our spine in the future should look like:

Goldsack
Brown
Pendlebury
Cloke
Reid/Rusling/Dawes

[sirlothie]

You don't ever have an over-abundance of anything unless you have more, better quality ones than anybody else and we don't, we may have too many but they aren't all the best and rarely does any of them apart from maybe Cloke and Rocca as tall forwards kick more than they can count on one hand and even with those two it's rarely.

We float their boats too much, I want to see T. Cloke up there with Fev and Buddy and Roughead and these blokes kicking little bags every week!

[fevtopies]

We float their boats too much, I want to see T. Cloke up there with Fev and Buddy and Roughead and these blokes kicking little bags every week!
thats exactly what im hoping of Trav but will this happen with him at CHF?

[The Royal Sampler]

We have an overabundance of KP forward prospects, but we're yet to see who will furnish into AFL quality, or in Rusling's case, whether he'll be blessed with an injury-free run.

I'm of the opinion that for now, we should keep any of these guys who we feel are high quality. We'll probably do better if the time comes to trade one, if the GC17 club is around as they're going to be given a swag of picks, and some of them must be immediately traded for existing players.

The interesting thing arises with the introduction of an extended rookie list for two years. It would seem that this year, as the last relatively uncompromised draft for a while, is essential to get absolutely right. Does that mean we delist a couple of players and try to rookie them, to free up space for new draftees in a quality draft? Equally, we could use those spots on speculative athletic projects who will take time to develop?

[frantelle]

IMO they are all way to young to be judged on (including cloke but he has already blown that idea out of the water)
key forwards are as rare as a priest in a brothel.
keep in mind dawes was rated very very very highly until he had a shoulder or knee (cant remember which) and also came in half way through last year

i know a lot of ppl say u only need one good pre season...IMO u need a good 2/3 pre seasons to get ur body tip top
if i were in charge that would be the last idea on my mind (trading these young blokes)
believe it or not i believe a spine is more important then the midfield, however i am yet to see a team with a perfect spine as its rare....we have a few good young prospects lets see if we cant develop one of them

lonie and holland should be delisted at the end of the year so that would immediatley free up 2 spots (could possible even be traded to freo for their first pick :p)

[pocketrocket#24]

key forwards: cloke, rusling, dawes
key backs: brown, reid (chb), harry o

reid played a lot of junior footy at chb and i reckon he'd be good there. his kicking for goal is pretty terrible at the moment and he may fix it or may not but if we let him play chb i think he'll be great value there.

[daics cousin]

Hey guys. It's obvious that we have many young KPP players, particularly forwards. The likes of Rusling, Reid, Cloke and Dawes are all under 22 years of age, yet we will eventually have to trade at least one of these players off. Cloke is our CHF and hopefully will be for the next 10 years. Reid is our most likely replacement for Rocca IMO.

The question is, what should our forwardline structure look like in the future, and which one of these four players will we not require, and therefore should trade? Personally I think Cloke/Reid will be our CHF/FF combination for many years (after Rocca retires). So I think one of Rusling/Dawes should be traded in the near future.

Trade not one of these players.I'll sum it up in one word,we need DEPTH,in the future.The only one i would consider trading only if he injures himself again is Rusling.But if that happens his currency would be quite low.
Look at the state of our forward line at the moment.Need i say, we have all these guys and not one except cloke can stay on the park.Imagine if we traded Dawes and rusling,what would happen if reid and cloke went down?
We would have a midget forward line and you can look forward to a premiership in 70 years,which none of us will see in this life time.
Do not let anyone fool you,in order to win a few flags a team need a good balance of small attacking forwards and at least 2 BIG power forwards creating opportunites or splitting packs to take the heat off the little guys.
So the reason we need the extra talls is to guarentee depth in the future.
Trade none of the young brigade small or tall just develop them,like the cats have done.If anything just add on players and get rid of the older stall warts that have serve our club diligently but realise that the modern game has passed them.Players like holland,lonie,could go,rocca give him another year,to play as a peripheral forward,should we need to cut more i'd trade toovey,Cook and maybe stanley that's it.

[Pie eyed]

Having seen young Jack Anthony play yesterday I think he may feature a lot further up the list of potential key forwards than many seem to think.

I think over the next two seasons you will see a lot more "meat" put on his already substantial frame and, with his already evident "angry" attitude to the contest, could well end up being the next Rocca.

I may be wrong but of Reid, Dawes(yet to play an AFL game), Rusling and Anthony....Anthony looked best in his very limited gametime(2) straight out of the box.

[Timmy from Thomastown]

Its a good position to be in. Rusling would have been in the gun for trade, but now his value would have dropped so far that its not worth getting rid of him. Theres room for them all.

BP O'Brien
FB Brown
HBF Anthony
W Goldsack
CHB Dawes/Reid
HFF Rusling
CHF Cloke
FF Reid/Dawes

Reid also could potentially play as a mobile 2nd ruck.

[frantelle]

Its a good position to be in. Rusling would have been in the gun for trade, but now his value would have dropped so far that its not worth getting rid of him. Theres room for them all.

BP O'Brien
FB Brown
HBF Anthony
W Goldsack
CHB Dawes/Reid
HFF Rusling
CHF Cloke
FF Reid/Dawes

Reid also could potentially play as a mobile 2nd ruck.

i really really like this idea
showed he can get lots of the ball against carlton so he obviously knows where to go and get a kick
could be a good 2nd ruckmen once fraser and bryan get too old

[Magnus the Magpie]

IMO they are all way to young to be judged on (including cloke but he has already blown that idea out of the water)
key forwards are as rare as a priest in a brothel.
keep in mind dawes was rated very very very highly until he had a shoulder or knee (cant remember which) and also came in half way through last year

--------

My dear old mother would be mortified but it may not be all that rare - there was the famous case of the french Archbishop who had a heart attack 'on the job' (as they say) in Paris a few years back - and it would be a major surprise if that was an isolated incident.

Anyway, who cares and, more to the point, TRS has it right: apart from Rocca and Cloke, none of our key forwards are anything more than 'kids with potential' (thank you David Williamson) at this stage. Just as well that our small forwards are doing well - and playing above their height. Nevertheless, I'd still like to see one more big body (besides Cloke) down forward on a permanent basis. Maybe when Fraser comes back, we go with the three rucks and one 'resting' in the forward line?

[Skade]

If we had an overabundance of young KPP forwards, I dont think we would have all this conjecture about who's was going to take Rocca's spot when he's finished. There's alot of question marks over these guy's still.
Would be great to see Dawes banging down the door for promotion but the fact is he isn't, hopefully it will come. If Ruz does his shoulder again he's probably finished :thumbsd:

[aaronm46]

better overabundance then lack of

[shawthing09]

As has been said untill any of them are proven it's not an over abundance at all. They are all kids and have a lot of developing to do to be top AFL class

Rus needs the body to hold up even then he is a bit of a medium sized one dimensional target.

Reid needs to get an AFL body and sort his kicking out.

Dawes just needs some good time to get up to the level. His understanding of when to lead, hands etc all have a fair way to go.

Anthony IMO looks more comfortable down back, although i am probably being harsh as i have only seen him back at VFL and foward at AFL. I think for our side and himself he will be better of in the back half.

Of those I think Reid has the most star quality of the bunch

Anthony is the most likely to have a solid AFL career but the least likely to be a star

Rus has question marks over his body and Dawes is still way beyond being able to judge.

[Magnus the Magpie]

Good summation ST09. Until they develop, return from injury and prove themselves we are going to have to rely on a forward mix of Cloke, our very-good small/mediums, our ruckmen and the occasional wildcard (pending - hopefully - Rocca's return).

Actually, I'm not too fussed about this. I reckon MM does some of his best coaching when he's forced to be creative.

[hotpies26]

Clealrly the forward line cant work with 3 leading forwards. Convert 1 in to a backman.

[Pie eyed]

Clealrly the forward line cant work with 3 leading forwards. Convert 1 in to a backman.

To be honest I can't see why we can't have 3 leading forwards.

One up the guts one either pocket and out HBF-small forward-mids streaming in for he crumbs.....
The "Shock and Awe" forward setup.

[Chase the Ace]

Clealrly the forward line cant work with 3 leading forwards. Convert 1 in to a backman.

Our structure prior to injury was based on 3 tall forwards
Rocca
Rusling
Cloke

It was a brilliant set up
Rocca 30 meters in front of goal
Rusling leading out of the goal square
Cloke the lead up/roaming CHF.

Hopefully we can get back to something similar when they are all fit

[Dundalis]

Silly thread. It is assuming that the forwards will all turn into quality AFL players. At this point the ONLY young key forward of proven quality we have is Cloke. That's not depth. Franklin, Roughead and Boyle is depth.

I'm not even confident Reid will play 100 AFL games, much less be a replacement for Rocca. Eventually the "he's bottom aged" excuse will run it's course and there will be no more excuses. He's nowhere near an AFL player at this stage, and I'm not sure he ever will be. He sure as hell is no Rocca replacement I think that's obvious.

Rusling is odds on to be another Nick Holland at this stage. You can hardly count on him coming back and not having another shoulder injury given his history. If he played midfield like Judd it maybe wouldn't be as big an issue, but the position he plays, given the amount of times he's done it, I don't see him lasting very long if I'm honest. Which is a shame because he is a handy player when fit.

That leaves Dawes, and if you want to include the undersized McCaffer. Dawes has a lot of potential, but he's hardly shown it this season in the VFL. McCaffer is too small to hold down a key position, and would only be able to in bursts, not long term. Neither have proven that they are AFL players yet.

I'd say this thread is far too premature. In fact I still wouldn't hesitate to grab a key position forward in the next draft, provided we get our inside midfielder. Though probably another key backman would come first.

[Dave The Man]

Silly thread. It is assuming that the forwards will all turn into quality AFL players. At this point the ONLY young key forward of proven quality we have is Cloke. That's not depth. Franklin, Roughead and Boyle is depth.



I would not mind trading for Boyle was well next year;)

[bradrowe#32]

The only one I'm not sure about is Reid. I don't know how he will fit into the side in the future. Perhaps he'll play an Adam Goodes type role.

[Chase the Ace]

I would not mind trading for Boyle was well next year;)

So, he's been sick this year?