View Full Version : What do people think of this idea?
I reckon we should invest HEAVILY in this and next year's DRAFT!
This may make me look stupid, and I expect some abuse but provided that we dont win this year's premiership, I would like us to go after one of the top 3 picks in this year's draft.
I would trade our first pick (say pick 10-16) and someone like a Josh Fraser or Rhyce Shaw (or even both) to upgrade our pick to a pick in the top 3. (If a bottom 3 club was willing to accept)
Some may say, why would you want to get rid of R Shaw and Fraser? Yes.... R Shaw has had a terrific year to date however my argument is; both players have been on the list for nearly 10 years, and if we haven't achieved the ultimate prize, its time to move on. Yes, I know top 3 picks aren't guaranteed superstars, but more often than not..... they are!
Imagine we get the draft the next "Cousins" or "Brown"
shawthing09
8 Jul 2008, 00:54
No for a couple of reasons. 1stly i doubt we would get a top 3 pick even offering what you are offering. Simply the teams that are finishing at the bottom are rebuilding and would rather then best younger then a couple of decent older players and a lower pick then theirs.
Secondly if we were to trade Fraser and Rhyce for example I would prefer it be something like Fraser for a late 1st/ early second round pick and Rhyce for second and even someone like egan for a third.
Or something like that.
That said I think unfortunatly Fraser value to us is still much higher then his trade value. Rhyce I would put on the table if it where a business decision but i am not sure what it would do for team moral and chemistry
Pie eyed
8 Jul 2008, 01:09
I reckon we should invest HEAVILY in this and next year's DRAFT!
This may make me look stupid, and I expect some abuse but provided that we dont win this year's premiership, I would like us to go after one of the top 3 picks in this year's draft.
I would trade our first pick (say pick 10-16) and someone like a Josh Fraser or Rhyce Shaw (or even both) to upgrade our pick to a pick in the top 3. (If a bottom 3 club was willing to accept)
Some may say, why would you want to get rid of R Shaw and Fraser? Yes.... R Shaw has had a terrific year to date however my argument is; both players have been on the list for nearly 10 years, and if we haven't achieved the ultimate prize, its time to move on. Yes, I know top 3 picks aren't guaranteed superstars, but more often than not..... they are!
Imagine we get the draft the next "Cousins" or "Brown"
Imagine if we don't...what a ____ing waste of two good players and a hell of a lot of credibility.
bluesforever
8 Jul 2008, 01:16
Imagine if we don't...what a ____ing waste of two good players and a hell of a lot of credibility.
They aren't good players... they are average so if a club did want Fraser and/or Shaw Collingwood would be stupid not to trade them off for such a high pick. Won't happen though, the bottom few wouldn't bother with it.
frantelle
8 Jul 2008, 01:26
personally i dont think any teams with the top 5 picks will trade them away for anything
Godfrey Jones
8 Jul 2008, 01:29
lol you couldnt get the top pick for judd, you wont get top 3 for those blokes.
spartan-magpie
8 Jul 2008, 01:32
They aren't good players... they are average so if a club did want Fraser and/or Shaw Collingwood would be stupid not to trade them off for such a high pick. Won't happen though, the bottom few wouldn't bother with it.
cameron cloke and heath schotland were average players... josh at his best can be in the elite (granted he is hard as toasted marshmellow) and rhyce shaw has become one of the more consistent taggers/running defenders in the game...
BOTH would be top 10 in ur teams list..
Pie eyed
8 Jul 2008, 01:32
They aren't good players... they are average so if a club did want Fraser and/or Shaw Collingwood would be stupid not to trade them off for such a high pick. Won't happen though, the bottom few wouldn't bother with it.
LMAO...yep keep thinkin that...
High picks don't always turn to gold....your club will learn this over the next few seasons. Maybe one in ten end up living up to the hype and the others become either average players or are delisted.
Godfrey Jones
8 Jul 2008, 01:34
LMAO...yep keep thinkin that...
High picks don't always turn to gold....your club will learn this over the next few seasons. Maybe one in ten end up living up to the hype and the others become either average players or are delisted.
lol gibbs :o
cameron cloke and heath schotland were average players... josh at his best can be in the elite (granted he is hard as toasted marshmellow) and rhyce shaw has become one of the more consistent taggers/running defenders in the game...
BOTH would be top 10 in ur teams list..
No way in hell Rhyce Shaw would be in Carlton's top 10.
Fraser possibly though.
lol gibbs :o
Gibbs is good ;)
I reckon we should invest HEAVILY in this and next year's DRAFT!
This may make me look stupid, and I expect some abuse but provided that we dont win this year's premiership, I would like us to go after one of the top 3 picks in this year's draft.
I would trade our first pick (say pick 10-16) and someone like a Josh Fraser or Rhyce Shaw (or even both) to upgrade our pick to a pick in the top 3. (If a bottom 3 club was willing to accept)
Some may say, why would you want to get rid of R Shaw and Fraser? Yes.... R Shaw has had a terrific year to date however my argument is; both players have been on the list for nearly 10 years, and if we haven't achieved the ultimate prize, its time to move on. Yes, I know top 3 picks aren't guaranteed superstars, but more often than not..... they are!
Imagine we get the draft the next "Cousins" or "Brown"
Collingwood will not trade the vice captain and a quality midfielder.
and clubs rebuilding do not want to trade high draft picks.
Godfrey Jones
8 Jul 2008, 01:52
No way in hell Rhyce Shaw would be in Carlton's top 10.
Fraser possibly though.
Gibbs is good ;)
judd>fevola>fraser>shaw>murphy :thumbsu:
to get a top 3 pick we would have to trade something like, our top pick + pendlebury + reid, or something like that. so no.
Imagine if we don't...what a ____ing waste of two good players and a hell of a lot of credibility.
How is it a waste of credibility?
R Shaw has definitely had excellent season to date, There is no denying that. By far his best season to date but provided we dont win the premiership at the end of the year its time to try something new!
If you read the whole thing, I said the argument is; both players have been on the list for nearly 10 years, and if we haven't achieved the ultimate prize, its time to move on.
to get a top 3 pick we would have to trade something like, our top pick + pendlebury + reid, or something like that. so no.
Are you serious?
No for a couple of reasons. 1stly i doubt we would get a top 3 pick even offering what you are offering. Simply the teams that are finishing at the bottom are rebuilding and would rather then best younger then a couple of decent older players and a lower pick then theirs.
Fair point!
What do you think we would need to do to get a top 3 pick?
Godfrey Jones
8 Jul 2008, 03:18
^probably what joely said.
Dogs_Playing_Poker
8 Jul 2008, 09:02
They aren't good players...
So, it doesnt take a good player to murder Judd for three Quaters in Rhyce Shaw?!?!
to get a top 3 pick we would have to trade something like, our top pick + pendlebury + reid, or something like that. so no.
Garbage!
All of Melbourne, West Coast and Freemantle would take Pendles alone in exchange for their number 1 pick. He is just what you hope an early pick will turn out like and barring injury will be an elite player in the game within a few years.
popathon
8 Jul 2008, 09:37
I'd rather Kerr and M Brown.
Chase the Ace
8 Jul 2008, 09:50
So now we have too many ruckman, how did that happen in just one year?
Darkdayz
8 Jul 2008, 09:58
pfft we dont need the draft, we have technically bypassed it with our irish recuits and nsw programs. we've got so much tall timber coming up i'm sure we'd be able to just trade for wat we need.
after all we do have the great hine, so doesnt really phase me if we dont get low draft picks.
How could anyone say that about trading two of our top, probably five players?
Big Bucks
8 Jul 2008, 13:32
Imagine if we don't...what a ____ing waste of two good players and a hell of a lot of credibility.
They are two average players, thou Rhyce has stepped up this year, he has done very little in his first 7 years on the list.
Fraser is a major dissapointment to the say the least after a good first year, i would be rapt if we could snare a second round pick for Fraser, as he has little value on the open market.
They are two average players, thou Rhyce has stepped up this year, he has done very little in his first 7 years on the list.
Fraser is a major dissapointment to the say the least after a good first year, i would be rapt if we could snare a second round pick for Fraser, as he has little value on the open market.
Agreed!
Although i believe we could still get a first rounder for Fraser. Somewhere between 6-16 range.
How could anyone say that about trading two of our top, probably five players?
You can't be serious, how can you think R Shaw and Fraser are in our top 5 players?
My top 5 are Didak, Thomas, H Shaw, Pendlebury and Cloke. With Swan very unlucky to miss.
Godfrey Jones
8 Jul 2008, 14:53
You can't be serious, how can you think R Shaw and Fraser are in our top 5 players?
My top 5 are Didak, Thomas, H Shaw, Pendlebury and Cloke. With Swan very unlucky to miss.
Sorry mate but its insult to fraser and rhyce both to have thomas ahead of them. they are both better at this stage of their careers. obvioulsy thomas has potential to be better but he is not there yet...
How could you not include Medhurst in your top 5 hes been one of our best this year.
cakewalk06
8 Jul 2008, 15:00
You can't be serious, how can you think R Shaw and Fraser are in our top 5 players?
My top 5 are Didak, Thomas, H Shaw, Pendlebury and Cloke. With Swan very unlucky to miss.
Unlucky all right. he is probably our best player at the moment
bradrowe#32
8 Jul 2008, 15:07
I hope no other supporters are reading this thread.
The Royal Sampler
8 Jul 2008, 15:21
Here are my typically long-winded thoughts on the matter.
2008 - GC17 is able to lure Queensland players out of the draft, to be added to their side to play in the 2009 TAC Cup. AFL extends club rookie lists to six players.
Impact on draft: minimal.
2009 - GC17 gets to lure 17-yr-old players out of the draft in exchange for a contract. Presumably, the best 17-yr-olds know they're going to get drafted the following year anyway (see: DeBoer, Watts etc.) and so will take their chances in the draft. Possibly, Western Sydney has a similar arrangement with NSW players not tied to the scholarship scheme.
Impact on draft: moderate.
2010 - GC17 gets a truckload of early draft choices, most of which need to be traded immediately for established players. If you have a tradeable commodity, you could do well to trade with GC17, if not, you won't likely have an early pick this year. Possibly, Western Sydney has a similar arrangement with 17 year-olds being able to be lured out of the draft.
Impact on draft: considerable.
It seems to me that the draft won't be truly compromised until 2010, and then if we do have players who are trade bait, we could do reasonably well out of it and not really miss out on the opportunity to add young talent to our list.
The reason why I think we should be fairly aggressive in list turnover this year is threefold;
1) This appears to be a strong draft, and reasonably deep.
2) We have a player we should probably add to our senior list already in Scott Reed, plus a no-brainer rookie promotion in Wellingham. Both of these guys need room made for them.
3) We had a large intake in 2005, with 5 National Draft selections (Thomas/Pendlebury/Stanley/Cook/Anthony), 2 PSD selections (Iles/Bryan?) and another few rookies (Toovey/Cox). We should now be in a position to make a few decisions on those players' potential and performance.
To my mind, we should look to elevate Wellingham, take Reed, and draft at least four other players, possibly including Cousins. I'm in the dark as to where the club stands on MacAffer but I'd promote him too. We are going to take Keeffe for the rookie list, and assuming we retain Dyas and Casey-Leigh, that will allow us three rookie spots to either use on new prospects, or retain delisted players.
I have in mind 5 players who I think will either retire, or are not up to it. We would only have to look at trading or delist/rookie-ing another two, which is not too big an ask. Just IMHO, of course.
macleodboy07
8 Jul 2008, 15:22
Agreed!
Although i believe we could still get a first rounder for Fraser. Somewhere between 6-16 range.
if we can get a 1st rounder and medhurst for a spud like tarrent i think we can do anything at the trade table. the only prob collingwood has at the trade table is no other club wants to trade with us because we are the most hated team in the league (and the most loved!)
i think we should have a go at getting prismall from geelong but. his young, tallented, a ball magnet and would fit into our midfeild nicely
mattys123
8 Jul 2008, 15:24
Fraser or Rhyce will not be traded for the following reasons;
1. Neither player is seen as worthy of a trade for a 1st round draft pick.
2. Rhyce is just developing into the player we have always wanted him to be.
3. Josh's injury concerns would make him almost untradable, better off keeping him and gettin him fit.
4. Both players are in the premiership age bracket (25-30), the bracket of which you need 12-15 players to win a flag.
When Josh is fit, he is easily in the top 5 ruckman in the league, and is still of upmost importance to our structure.
Rhyce, as i said, is having his best year, and how embarrassing would it be if we traded him for a 2nd round pick and he kept improving.
No trades at end of year please, use our draft picks wisely and we will be ok in 2-3 years (our premiership window is approaching).
MagpieGirl_13
8 Jul 2008, 15:37
No thanks.
1) Rhyce Shaw – At this stage I wouldn't trade this guy. He started 2007 really well but then injury had a big impact & he didn't end up playing many games. Now, after a ripping pre-season he is back playing some of his best football. He has lightning speed & that is invaluable in a team. If we trade him at the end of the season he will go on to another club and we will be left chasing his @rse around the field. I think he will still be this type of player for another year or two. We need to capitalize on his abilities, not trade him!
2) Josh Fraser – I honestly can’t see why anyone would want to trade our number 1 ruckman. He was playing great footy before the All Stars game when he was injured. Up until that point in that game he was probably the best ruckman on the ground. Since he was drafted he has been a very serviceable ruckman for us.
We were desperate for a ruckman, now we want to get rid of one…. This world really has gone crazy!
So, we trade Fraser for a high draft pick. Our number 1 ruckman will be….. hrmm… I’d like to know…… Even if we draft another young ruckman there is no guarantee that he will be any good. It would probably take him at least ½ a season until he is ready to come into the senior side. What do we do ‘till then…? Hope that Wood & Bryan can carry the ruck? That’s a bit hard on them. If one of them is then injured, well….. We’re stuffed. We have Thoolen coming through still, I’ll be honest, I don’t know a lot about him or how he plays. I’m not even sure if he can make it in the ruck. Or maybe we don’t draft a ruckman with the higher pick, well then our ruck stocks are still low.
We have a very good group of players coming through. Some haven’t shown a lot at this stage but with a bit of time most will come good. The younger players in the seniors and some of the kids in the 2s are improving and getting better each week. If we work with what we have, they could be something we really need.
It would be nice to have some higher draft picks but I don’t think we should be trading Fraser & Rhyce to get them. Hine probably knows of a player that might go unnoticed through the draft & we’ll pick him up…. It’s happened before.
Just my thoughts.
How could you not include Medhurst in your top 5 hes been one of our best this year.
No denying Medhurst has been terrific..... but my opinion is the top 5 at our club are Thomas, Didak, Cloke, Pendlebury, and H Shaw.
brspdt201013
8 Jul 2008, 15:55
No way. We need ready made players now. 09-10-11 I am expecting at least 2 premierships in this time frame.
This is why I think we will trade our first round pick for an established mid at the end of the season.
Sorry mate but its insult to fraser and rhyce both to have thomas ahead of them. they are both better at this stage of their careers. obvioulsy thomas has potential to be better but he is not there yet...
Yes, Thomas is not there yet, but I'd still have him in my top 5 easily over R Shaw and Fraser.
The point of my argument was both players (Rhyce and Fraser) have been on the list for nearly 10 years, and if we haven't achieved the ultimate success in that time, its time to try something different while both players still had a bit of value.
No way. We need ready made players now. 09-10-11 I am expecting at least 2 premierships in this time frame.
This is why I think we will trade our first round pick for an established mid at the end of the season.
Who would you target?
Personally, I would target someone like a Salopek..... someone under the radar!
So now we have too many ruckman, how did that happen in just one year?
I'm not saying we have too many ruckman, Bryan and Wood have just stepped up.
Why do you think we got Wood last year when Fraser was still on the list?
garbage!
All Of Melbourne, West Coast And Freemantle Would Take Pendles Alone In Exchange For Their Number 1 Pick. He Is Just What You Hope An Early Pick Will Turn Out Like And Barring Injury Will Be An Elite Player In The Game Within A Few Years.
Exactly!
Here are my typically long-winded thoughts on the matter.
2008 - GC17 is able to lure Queensland players out of the draft, to be added to their side to play in the 2009 TAC Cup. AFL extends club rookie lists to six players.
Impact on draft: minimal.
2009 - GC17 gets to lure 17-yr-old players out of the draft in exchange for a contract. Presumably, the best 17-yr-olds know they're going to get drafted the following year anyway (see: DeBoer, Watts etc.) and so will take their chances in the draft. Possibly, Western Sydney has a similar arrangement with NSW players not tied to the scholarship scheme.
Impact on draft: moderate.
2010 - GC17 gets a truckload of early draft choices, most of which need to be traded immediately for established players. If you have a tradeable commodity, you could do well to trade with GC17, if not, you won't likely have an early pick this year. Possibly, Western Sydney has a similar arrangement with 17 year-olds being able to be lured out of the draft.
Impact on draft: considerable.
It seems to me that the draft won't be truly compromised until 2010, and then if we do have players who are trade bait, we could do reasonably well out of it and not really miss out on the opportunity to add young talent to our list.
The reason why I think we should be fairly aggressive in list turnover this year is threefold;
1) This appears to be a strong draft, and reasonably deep.
2) We have a player we should probably add to our senior list already in Scott Reed, plus a no-brainer rookie promotion in Wellingham. Both of these guys need room made for them.
3) We had a large intake in 2005, with 5 National Draft selections (Thomas/Pendlebury/Stanley/Cook/Anthony), 2 PSD selections (Iles/Bryan?) and another few rookies (Toovey/Cox). We should now be in a position to make a few decisions on those players' potential and performance.
To my mind, we should look to elevate Wellingham, take Reed, and draft at least four other players, possibly including Cousins. I'm in the dark as to where the club stands on MacAffer but I'd promote him too. We are going to take Keeffe for the rookie list, and assuming we retain Dyas and Casey-Leigh, that will allow us three rookie spots to either use on new prospects, or retain delisted players.
I have in mind 5 players who I think will either retire, or are not up to it. We would only have to look at trading or delist/rookie-ing another two, which is not too big an ask. Just IMHO, of course.
Couple of excellent points.... a very good and educated answer!
I agree completely that we should be fairly aggressive in turning over the list this year
Which players do you think will be this 'tradeable commodity' come 2010?
The Royal Sampler
8 Jul 2008, 16:31
Which players do you think will be this 'tradeable commodity' come 2010?
It's fairly well accepted that we have a lot of KP forward prospects. Some won't make it, some will, and some potentially could be converted to backs or traded. We also have a glut of tallish HBFs, who will need to either be extremely good or extremely versatile to remain on the list.