Freos fake "Giant Status"

[Memories]

For a while now there has been this theory that we have a tall team and I never quite knew why. I guess when you have sandilands on your team you "look" big.

Anyhow I added up the stats for what I think was our tallest game this season against Geelong. You must remember sandilands was the tallest player on the ground by 11cm that night.

Fremantle total height: 4134cm
Fremantle average height: 187.9cm

Geelong total height: 4156cm
Geelong avg height: 188.9cm

In essence, the premiers had a team that was on average 1cm greater than every player we had on the ground. Our midget midfield is what brings us down, time and time again. I made a thread before, we have the most players <=180cm on any team. I think the closest was 4 or 5, we had 8 last year, nearly double the closest team.

[PapaJ]

I'd be interested in what the Bulldogs best team has as an average hight. They are noted for having a lot of 'medium size' players playing in key position type posies, but I always note their relatively big midfield and flanking players.

Hight is not the primary issue anyway AFAIC (rucks aside and one or two KP aside) its about mobility and athleticism (endurance etc.). A midfield needs a good mix of hight and players who can play the inside game and they don't need to be that big, but they do need to able to run out games and play smart and skilfully for the duration.

[purpleblood29]

To me we have never really been a tall side. Sure we have a few talls in Sandi, Pav, and Tarrant. But there are heaps of smalls.. schammer, farmer, well there was bell.. haselby. j carr. peake.. than some mediums like crowley and palmer. just to name a few.

[Memories]

I'd be interested in what the Bulldogs best team has as an average hight. They are noted for having a lot of 'medium size' players playing in key position type posies, but I always note their relatively big midfield and flanking players.

Hight is not the primary issue anyway AFAIC (rucks aside and one or two KP aside) its about mobility and athleticism (endurance etc.). A midfield needs a good mix of hight and players who can play the inside game and they don't need to be that big, but they do need to able to run out games and play smart and skilfully for the duration.

Height isn't the be all and end all, however look at the elite midfielders of the comp, Gary Ablet Jnr is 182cm, Judd is like 188, Black is tall, etc. There are a few exceptions, but the best mids all seem to be in the 180-190 range. J Carr is 178cm, Bell is 175cm, Schammer is 175cm, Andrew Browne is 176cm, Black is 178cm. Besides Browne, we relied (rely) on these guys to win nearly all our ball. If we had one or two, then sure, but our midfield was built around these players.

The shorter you are the shorter your arms, the harder it is to mark overhead, the harder it is to spoil, etc. No one is saying mids should be 200cm tall, however there is a nice balance, you want them as tall as possible, whilst still being able to get down and clear the ball, be fast, be agile, etc.

One of our issues in my opinion is we overloaded on what appeared to be quality players.... that just happened to be quite short, in effect when you combine them all into the one team it leads to weaknesses.

J Carr, Bell, Black, Farmer, these were all quality players in their time. How many other teams field 4 starting players under 178cm though? None. When you add in us having Schammer, Cook, Browne in there, sometimes even in the same games and it is quite amazing.

[Bradesmaen]

We never get called a giant team.. we just get called a team with giants.. cause we have two of them. Name another team with average ruck height of 209cm.

[Memories]

We never get called a giant team.. we just get called a team with giants.. cause we have two of them. Name another team with average ruck height of 209cm.

I'm pretty sure we got accused of going into a game this year being "too tall".

[Bradesmaen]

Yeah because we did.. We took in a heap of slower talls like Murphy, Campbell etc into a game where the opposition had a few more smaller forwards, exactly like the Essendon game. They had Jetta and Reimers doing damage cause we only had Hayden... then no hayden.

Doesn't mean we are a tall side. Its just a figure of speech. A risk you take is bringing in key forwards who are tall and can mark, relying on good delivery that is high enough.. versus risking yourself against a midfield attack. Its what WCE did so well.. went small with all the midfielders (small is just an expression) and beat many teams who had slower backlines who couldn't match up on guys like Phil Matera and Cousins down forward (when they played forward). Look at the damaged they caused the Crows over the years who have two of the best tall backs in the game at the moment.

[tjeuring]

To me we have never really been a tall side. Sure we have a few talls in Sandi, Pav, and Tarrant. But there are heaps of smalls.. schammer, farmer, well there was bell.. haselby. j carr. peake.. than some mediums like crowley and palmer. just to name a few.

Hmmm, I think it might be debatable with crowleys height. He is deceivingly tall at 6"2 and a half. What is the cut off height for tall/medium considering Tarrant is only 5cm taller?

[Chops_a_must]

I'm pretty sure we got accused of going into a game this year being "too tall".
I think a lot of people use "too tall" and "slow" synonymously.

[curry23]

Crowley is listed as 190cm and Taz is listed as 193cm

[purpleblood29]

Really.. I never knew Crowley was that tall. I always thought he was 185 or so.

[Belnakor]

Peter Bell was listed as 178 in some form guide i saw once. Those heights are deceptive.

[Scotland]

Height is massively overrated in midfield.

Sure, being tall can be used as an advantage, but quality trumps height every time.

Your best on ball division right now (assuming no injuries) would probably be something like (IMO):

C: Palmer Crowley Headland
Foll: Sandilands, Hasleby, Bell

Headland is about 185cm, and Crowley is tall, but the other mids are hardly giants. Guys like Peake (who is no midget), Schammer, J Carr etc. don't struggle just because they are short, they struggle because they have deficiencies in their games. Just like Chad Fletcher. He could grow 4 or 5 inches and still be awful at football.

[curry23]

Height is massively overrated in midfield.

Sure, being tall can be used as an advantage, but quality trumps height every time.

Your best on ball division right now (assuming no injuries) would probably be something like (IMO):

C: Palmer Crowley Headland
Foll: Sandilands, Hasleby, Bell

Headland is about 185cm, and Crowley is tall, but the other mids are hardly giants. Guys like Peake (who is no midget), Schammer, J Carr etc. don't struggle just because they are short, they struggle because they have deficiencies in their games. Just like Chad Fletcher. He could grow 4 or 5 inches and still be awful at football.
I agree that height is not very important in midfielders but just to let you know Peter Bell retired a few days ago, there are threads on the Freo and Kangaroos boards:thumbsu:

[curry23]

Peter Bell was listed as 178 in some form guide i saw once. Those heights are deceptive.
Nope, those heights are pretty much spot on, Ive met Crowls a few times and he is about the same height as me (im bout 192cm), and Bell is very short:thumbsu:

[Checkers Nixon]

Really.. I never knew Crowley was that tall. I always thought he was 185 or so.

I have stood shoulder to shoulder with Crowley - he is 5'11 max.

Not a tall guy, but has very impressive muscle development in his shoulders.

When you see him up close in the flesh it is striking just how disproportionately big his shoulder and tricep development is for a guy of his size.

[curry23]

I have stood shoulder to shoulder with Crowley - he is 5'11 max.

Not a tall guy, but has very impressive muscle development in his shoulders.

When you see him up close in the flesh it is striking just how disproportionately big his shoulder and tricep development is for a guy of his size.
How tall are you? I am only just taller than him and I am about 192:thumbsu:

[Scotland]

I agree that height is not very important in midfielders but just to let you know Peter Bell retired a few days ago, there are threads on the Freo and Kangaroos boards:thumbsu:

I know... hence the 'right now' comment. In 2009, Bell will obviously be replaced by another player on your list.

My point is that if given the opportunity to replace Bell with either Daniel Kerr/Gary Ablett or another Crowley, you'd pick Kerr/Ablett every time.

A 190cm Crowley has an extra string to his bow over a 175cm player of the same ability, but a good 175cm player is much more valuable than an average 190cm one. Look at Palmer, he'd barely be 6 foot tall and has no trouble finding the footy, even with the frame of an 18 year old.

[curry23]

I know... hence the 'right now' comment. In 2009, Bell will obviously be replaced by another player on your list.

My point is that if given the opportunity to replace Bell with either Daniel Kerr/Gary Ablett or another Crowley, you'd pick Kerr/Ablett every time.

A 190cm Crowley has an extra string to his bow over a 175cm player of the same ability, but a good 175cm player is much more valuable than an average 190cm one. Look at Palmer, he'd barely be 6 foot tall and has no trouble finding the footy, even with the frame of an 18 year old.
Are you calling Crowley an average player? I agree about Palmer tho:thumbsu:

[Scotland]

Are you calling Crowley an average player? I agree about Palmer tho:thumbsu:

No, but he is in the good ordinary player bracket. He has a role, but I don't see him being the sort of guy to lead a midfield.

I've never seen anything to suggest that Crowley belongs in the Judd/Cousins/Kerr bracket instead of the Braun/Selwood/Stenglein one.

[curry23]

No, but he is in the good ordinary player bracket. He has a role, but I don't see him being the sort of guy to lead a midfield.

I've never seen anything to suggest that Crowley belongs in the Judd/Cousins/Kerr bracket instead of the Braun/Selwood/Stenglein one.
Fair enough but IMHO he is in the elite group of taggers in he AFL, possibly #1 because of the job that he did on the "untagable":thumbsu:

[Belnakor]

Nope, those heights are pretty much spot on, Ive met Crowls a few times and he is about the same height as me (im bout 192cm), and Bell is very short:thumbsu:

bell is 178. Standing on a phone book.