View Full Version : Will Laycock be a valuable second ruck?
loopy_cam
19 Jul 2008, 19:24
With all the, unwarranted IMO, bashing of Laycock after his game today, I would like to know the answer to this question.
Will Laycock be a valuable second ruck?
I don't expect him to dominate games but I believe he will be a very good asset for the team over the coming years.
Ben the Gooner
19 Jul 2008, 19:32
See sig:cool:
loopy_cam
19 Jul 2008, 19:34
See sig:cool:
Nice. I went for something similar but less bold. :p
The Dustbin
19 Jul 2008, 19:35
I applaud both your sigs. Great sign of support for Chook. :thumbsu:
Disco Clarky
19 Jul 2008, 20:51
See sig:cool:
Kidding yourselves Jason Laycock will NEVER be an elite player. He gets pushed around by his opponents , cand deliver when the pressures on . Seriously the smartest thing essendon could do at the end of the year is look for another back up ruckman. Laycock is in the same class as Ricky Dyson, no matter how many chances you give em they will never get there. Theyll both play the odd good game but at the end of the day they are spuds
stander
19 Jul 2008, 21:25
With all the, unwarranted IMO, bashing of Laycock after his game today, I would like to know the answer to this question.
Will Laycock be a valuable second ruck?
I don't expect him to dominate games but I believe he will be a very good asset for the team over the coming years.
The problem with Laycock is, he is removed from a contest after incidental contact - just have a close look at the first quarter.
AndyLesPaul
19 Jul 2008, 21:34
Kidding yourselves Jason Laycock will NEVER be an elite player. He gets pushed around by his opponents , cand deliver when the pressures on . Seriously the smartest thing essendon could do at the end of the year is look for another back up ruckman. Laycock is in the same class as Ricky Dyson, no matter how many chances you give em they will never get there. Theyll both play the odd good game but at the end of the day they are spuds
elite player? we sed second ruck.
Windas_Magic
19 Jul 2008, 21:40
elite player? we sed second ruck.
He was talking about Gooner's great new sig;)
AndyLesPaul
19 Jul 2008, 21:41
He was talking about Gooner's great new sig;)
ahh,
i love not reading properly.
loopy_cam
20 Jul 2008, 17:55
Some old threads that may be of interest.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117335
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117128
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105983
Note: These were taken from 2004. When Hilley was 23. How old is Laycock at the moment? :cool:
stander
20 Jul 2008, 19:13
Some old threads that may be of interest.
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117335
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=117128
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?t=105983
Note: These were taken from 2004. When Hilley was 23. How old is Laycock at the moment? :cool:
Yes, the Lerviathan Hille has had his own poor patches, Laycock is now into his third poor year.
thebigboy
20 Jul 2008, 20:24
I think deep down he has the ability to be a contributor but right now, whether its through an injury he might be carrying, or just a complete loss of confidence, he looks like a lost cause.
He needs get his confidence back, possibly via the 2's so he can give a good crack at trying to save his career.
Bombers42
20 Jul 2008, 21:30
No, he is a dud.
panda boy
20 Jul 2008, 21:34
dud dud dud, cost us the game on the weekend.. agreeed?
quotemokc
20 Jul 2008, 21:41
NO! He will not, We have given Laycock too many chances to keep his career intact he messes up way to often he doesn't go for the ball hard enough. For instance in the Richmond game (I'm not saying it was his fault we lost but he could have won it for us) when he was infront of Troy Simmonds and Simmonds somehow got a mark from behind laycock and kicked a goal, also a tackle he made that missed was poor show it was an easy oppurtunity to tackle and what they kicked a goal from it.
What I am also REALLY sick of is when we are down the ball ends up in Laycocks hands and sometimes he has the oppurtunity to keep us in the game and he either kicks or doesn't and I am sick of the fate of games ending up in his hands. He is also an unreliable mark he drop way too many of what he should take.
If it were up to me I wouldnt renew his contract I would draft a young ruckmen.
We should also resign Reimers for a few years and Peverill for at least a year.
Ben the Gooner
20 Jul 2008, 21:48
dud dud dud, cost us the game on the weekend.. agreeed?
Not at all. His shots would have made it 3 and 2 points to them, I think.
daniher dynasty
20 Jul 2008, 21:58
while his shortcomings are plain for all to see he does still offer a bit as second banana- there are a few sides who have worse. The scary bit however is that of course second ruckman are forced to become 1st ruckmen if the chief goes down with an injury. So we do still need to be on the lookout in future drafts (or the psd if the right oppurtunity comes up). But at this stage I'd cross the fingers , count on Hille's durability and not use a high pick on a new ruckman.
Dr Moose
20 Jul 2008, 22:08
Wasn't Ryder supposed to be able to double up in the ruck as needed?
daniher dynasty
20 Jul 2008, 22:20
well yes that's right . While I'd see that being ok for a short term stopgap, I'd rather not see Paddy being played in the ruck over several weeks if DH had a serious injury. I think there's a risk Paddy would get knocked around too much as doesn't really have the body for it week in week out, even though he's got a great leap.
warney7
20 Jul 2008, 22:23
Of course he will. Who else do we have????????????????????????????????????
Ask again in 2 years, because he'll still be playing most matches!
Wasn't Ryder supposed to be able to double up in the ruck as needed?
He could very well do that but Essendon dosen't have great depth in there KP defenders at the moment let alone with all the injuries they have at the moment.
As for Laycock, what did he kick 1.4 and 13 touches? That is a improvement on the start off the year. He is coming along, slowly
Unfortunately EVEN IF laycock improves he will still be a spud. the game is moving on and no longer can you afford to have a big lumbering ruckmen.. rucks are becoming more and more agile and need to have huge engine capacity. lazycock has no running ability and pathetic skills at ground level. as the game gets faster and faster, players as slow as laycock just get left further and further behind.
also most ruckmen get a rotation through the forward line and need to be able to do a couple of things:
take a couple of grabs (laycock can do that.. sometimes.. if open)
contest pack marks and bring ball to ground (nope.. never.. nope)
kick goals (nope, well not when under pressure.. )
so as per the last ten years.. the bombers still need to look for ruckmen ruckmen and ruckmen. we won the preimership in 2000 because we got a couple of good years outta barnes.. it was the difference imho. if gumbleton can hold down chb.. can paddy go into the ruck next year? in which case laycock will have no role..
Ben the Gooner
21 Jul 2008, 09:06
Laycock is one of the better kicks at the club.
In a time of what must have been extreme boredom I did some stats for Hille, with and without Laycock in the team. Hille averages around 4 possessions a game more when Laycock is playing, with similar hitouts. This is taking into account that he would be spending LESS time on the ground. Clearly Laycock is of value to rest Hille. I don't think he will ever be our number 1 ruck but 23 is still young for a ruckman so who know. Worth at least another year IMO.
Phat Toni
21 Jul 2008, 10:25
As a number 2 ruckman? yes the big Lazy has a future at Essendon.
Can he;
Take a mark and kick a goal in the F50? Yes
Break even in tap work against the opposing #2? Yes
Get around the ground and plug the hole if needed? Yes
Is the Big Lazy worse than;
Seaby (WCE) NO
Warnock (FD) NO
Pattison (RT) NO
Taylor (HH) NO
Everitt (SS) NO
Bryan (CM) NO
Wood (CM) NO
Gardnier (StS) NO
Hale (NMK) NO
Griffin (AC) NO
Maric (AC) NO
Jamar (MD) NO
Cloke (CB) NO
Leuenberger (BL) NO
P Johnson (MD) NO
I'm not saying that Lazy is better than all those guys with a NO against them I am just saying that he is around equal to them.
The backup ruckman that could undeniably be labeled as better than Lazy are;
Brogan (PAP)
Minson (WB) YES
Blake (GC) YES
There might be a couple I haven’t thought of there but shows that as far as backup ruckman goes he isn't the worst in the league, he missed a few shots on goal on Saturday, so be it! If I remember correctly against the Crows (a game which we lost by 5 points) Hille missed about three as well. Brad Ottans and Spider Evritt aside there arn't many ruckman that are great shots on goal as they dont get enormous opportunities to improve their goal kicking.
I say stick with the big Lazy, if we traded him for Warnock or whoever I think we would be just trading like for like and hey if we had of given up on Hille when he was 23 where would we be now?
DazzlingBomber
21 Jul 2008, 12:19
If it were up to me I wouldnt renew his contract I would draft a young ruckmen.
We should also resign Reimers for a few years and Peverill for at least a year.
He's 23... isn't he still a young ruckman?? Very rare that a ruckman hits his straps before the age of 25. The posts re David Hille from a couple of years ago are extremely pertinent.
GIVE HIM TIME!!
rioli brownlow
21 Jul 2008, 12:34
NO! He will not, We have given Laycock too many chances to keep his career intact he messes up way to often he doesn't go for the ball hard enough. For instance in the Richmond game (I'm not saying it was his fault we lost but he could have won it for us) when he was infront of Troy Simmonds and Simmonds somehow got a mark from behind laycock and kicked a goal, also a tackle he made that missed was poor show it was an easy oppurtunity to tackle and what they kicked a goal from it.
What I am also REALLY sick of is when we are down the ball ends up in Laycocks hands and sometimes he has the oppurtunity to keep us in the game and he either kicks or doesn't and I am sick of the fate of games ending up in his hands. He is also an unreliable mark he drop way too many of what he should take.
If it were up to me I wouldnt renew his contract I would draft a young ruckmen.
We should also resign Reimers for a few years and Peverill for at least a year.
could be useful,if we gave him a pre season of just eating fast food so he can beef up so he doesn't get pushed off the contest so easily
Valve Bounce
21 Jul 2008, 15:40
With all the, unwarranted IMO, bashing of Laycock after his game today, I would like to know the answer to this question.
Will Laycock be a valuable second ruck?
I don't expect him to dominate games but I believe he will be a very good asset for the team over the coming years.
Are you recruiting for Freo? :D :rotflmao:
Valve Bounce
21 Jul 2008, 15:43
Laycock is one of the better kicks at the club.
O M I G O D !!!! we are in deep poo poo aren't we. :(
Ben the Gooner
21 Jul 2008, 15:53
He is actually a beautiful kick of the football.
See what unreasonable pressure from fans can do?
loopy_cam
21 Jul 2008, 17:21
Are you recruiting for Freo? :D :rotflmao:
Freo only recruit duds. ;)
Ben the Gooner
21 Jul 2008, 17:24
Freo only recruit duds. ;)
Well played.:D
loopy_cam
21 Jul 2008, 17:34
take a couple of grabs (laycock can do that.. sometimes.. if open)
contest pack marks and bring ball to ground (nope.. never.. nope)
kick goals (nope, well not when under pressure.. )
http://www.gspimages.com.au/images/thumbs/main/9690.jpg
And as for goals under pressure, remember the Carlton game?