View Full Version : Make or Break Year for Winderlich, Dempsey and Neagle
It is make or break years for Winderlich, Neagle and Gumbleton.
Winderlich will be in his sixth year and hasn't played more than 12 or 13 games per year. I rate him highly because he is the best ' gut runner ' at the club, and his disposal into the 50 is amongst the best at the club. He has to prove that his body can stand the rigors of AFL football.
Neagle must overcome his feet problems. He has had a curtailed preseason for each of his 3 years which has stopped him from acquiring the necessary aerobic capacity. He has the tools to be an effective KF, with size, strength and good hands. EFC may have to push up his training loads as a make or break exercise in 2009.
Dempsey has been afflicted with soft tissue and stress fracture injuries for the last 3 years. He has excellent speed, can break the lines and is a good reader of the play. Possibly the club could place him on a modified training program to protect his legs as he appears to have an above average aerobic capacity.
No doubt and Winderlich and Dempsey. Both are gone if they have another injury riddled season.
I think Dempsey may be floated on the market this year to be honest.
kelvin_sheedy
1 Sep 2008, 09:01
Not really.
You can't invest this much time into players and not see it through. We've offloaded too many over the past few years and the well is not as deep next year.
With GC coming in and draft picks at a premium over the next few years I'd doubt any of these guys would be traded.
We just have to cross our fingers and hope these guys can stay on the park.
Phat Toni
1 Sep 2008, 11:14
It is make or break years for Winderlich, Neagle and Gumbleton.
Winderlich will be in his sixth year and hasn't played more than 12 or 13 games per year. I rate him highly because he is the best ' gut runner ' at the club, and his disposal into the 50 is amongst the best at the club. He has to prove that his body can stand the rigors of AFL football.
Neagle must overcome his feet problems. He has had a curtailed preseason for each of his 3 years which has stopped him from acquiring the necessary aerobic capacity. He has the tools to be an effective KF, with size, strength and good hands. EFC may have to push up his training loads as a make or break exercise in 2009.
Dempsey has been afflicted with soft tissue and stress fracture injuries for the last 3 years. He has excellent speed, can break the lines and is a good reader of the play. Possibly the club could place him on a modified training program to protect his legs as he appears to have an above average aerobic capacity.
Winder yes I would agree, it is a make or break year. But with merv's son and Zippy they are both young and will be given a couple more years to see how they go, both have shown flashes of talent.
Midnight Vultures
1 Sep 2008, 11:50
No doubt and Winderlich and Dempsey. Both are gone if they have another injury riddled season.
I think Dempsey may be floated on the market this year to be honest.
And hell might freeze over.
If they had any thought of trading Dempsey, it'd be at the end of next year and only if he'd played 15+ games. mind you if he had we wouldn't want to get rid of him. His stock is too low currently simply because he can't get on the park, the noly way the club could get what they think is fair value is fo him to prove his fitness, in which case they want to keep him.
So unless he wants to leave at some stage, I'm fairly sure he's staying for the medium term. Personally though, I'm not counting on him as part of the side on a regular basis.
EVERLAST
1 Sep 2008, 13:04
Winderlich would be the only query - but I highly doubt their careers are on the line in '09 - perhaps '11 if their careers haven't progressed further.
We're losing too much experience and we would most likely be without Fletcher, Lloyd and Lucas by 2011.
Stanton needs to step up - he's gone backwards in my opinion if we're discussing current 'safe' players under the microscope.
The thrust of this thread is that these players have shown talent and it is this group of players that must step up in 2009 if EFC are to hold their current position on the ladder.
Winderlich played about 7 games this year ( under injury duress ) and I thought he was very effective in 3 or 4 of the games.
Dempsey played 4 games ( 2 full games ) and was very effective in one game.
Neagle played about 9 games and showed good signs.
ManWithNoName
1 Sep 2008, 13:25
Dempsey-Yes
Winderlich and Neagle? What on earth are you on about. Idiotic bringing those two names up.
Ludwig van Bertstare
1 Sep 2008, 14:19
Dempsey-Yes
Winderlich and Neagle? What on earth are you on about. Idiotic bringing those two names up.
Agreed.
AndyLesPaul
1 Sep 2008, 17:10
Dempsey-Yes
Winderlich and Neagle? What on earth are you on about. Idiotic bringing those two names up.
What i was thinking.
But he may have a slight point about neagle if any
but he has shown form.
Dempsey really needs to not get injured :(
OzBomber
1 Sep 2008, 18:39
What's the point in trading these guys off at the end of next year after all the stuff we've put into them. It'd just be a waste. Unless they're a dud, okay. But these guys have talent and could become very good players in the future.
All of them are safe bar Winderlich. I reckon the guy's got what it takes, but we cannot continue to carry perpetually injured players on our list.
Dempsey and Neagle will be given every opportunity.
TimeIsRunningOut
1 Sep 2008, 19:26
Can't say I agree with some of the posts so far. Why should Dempsey be on his last chance next year when he is only 21? Winderlich has had many opportunities and never been able to cement his spot in the side. He is the only player (out of the 3 mentioned) that will have a 'make or break' year next season.
ManWithNoName
1 Sep 2008, 19:30
Can't say I agree with some of the posts so far. Why should Dempsey be on his last chance next year when he is only 21? Winderlich has had many opportunities and never been able to cement his spot in the side. He is the only player (out of the 3 mentioned) that will have a 'make or break' year next season.
If Dempsey can't get himself fit next year he might not be worth persisting with.
Here_we_come
1 Sep 2008, 21:12
Dempsey-Yes
Winderlich and Neagle? What on earth are you on about. Idiotic bringing those two names up.
Care to justify this? Why is it so idiotic to mention Winderlich? He has been at the club for a good 5-6 years now and still can't cement a spot in the 22 without getting injured.
It's been frustrating watching dempsey get injured over the last 2 years, but he's still young. He has more talent than most players on our list and should definately be persisted with imo.
You are the missing the point of the thread.
These players need to be on the park playing consistent footy for EFC to improve next year.
The Donners
1 Sep 2008, 21:29
At 24, only 56 games to his name, only one decent season... I'd cut our losses with Winderlich. After 6 seasons its plain to see his body is not built for the highest level.
Here_we_come
1 Sep 2008, 21:39
You are the missing the point of the thread.
These players need to be on the park playing consistent footy for EFC to improve next year.
Surely the "break" part in "make or break" implies that a player will be delisted or traded should they have a bad or another injury plagued season next year.
You are absolutely correct that ' Make or Break ' means playing for their future, but it also means that if their bodies stand up to the rigors of the AFL, they will make EFC a stronger team.
The_Young_Gun
1 Sep 2008, 23:31
Contribution wise... I'd keep them all.
Injury wise... Just Take the roll of the dice.
Bit harsh on Neagle, been only 20 y.o.
You need to understand that Neagle doesn't train enough to obtain a sufficient fitness base and spends about 50% of his time in the Modified Group.
EVERLAST
2 Sep 2008, 11:39
Neagle will come good - he'll get better as Lloyd continues to play up the ground once Lucas returns.
Incidently - we allowed Johns several more years before someone finally came to their senses and cut him loose.
Neagle definitely has plenty of time in our colours to find out if he has what it takes to make the grade.
The_Young_Gun
2 Sep 2008, 18:02
Winderlich you can pretty much take out of disscussion because theres no chance his career will be on the line next year... He's already had his break out year.
Next year will definetly be a breakout year for many of our young players.
Hislop has been pretty limited in showing what he can do, why dont we jump on and give him a hard time.
winderlich should be fine as long as he remains injury free
With the term 'make or break' the player that tops it all,
Jason Laycock, will want to make a substantial impact on the game in season 2009, 6 years on the list, about the time a ruckmen starts to come good, showed some signs thisyear, is a mountain of a man, and we all know he can play. is turning 24 next year(24 Nov) and has 58 games to his name, is about time he stamped his name on the game, either as a forward or a ruckmen, that is one player.
A big call, but Alwyn Davey, 'could' be another, he has been unlucky with injuries, but he is 24 (will admit was picked up as a mature age draftee) but has shown enough to suggest he can play, but cannot manage to string more than a dozen games in a season.
And Nathan Lovett Murray will have to raise his game to another level, becoming a 'senior' (using the term lightly) player, he is going to have to show more leadership, he is not exactly turning the EFC on its head, let alone the comp on fire, so he may be another one thats got a make or break season.
Big Blow Hard
2 Sep 2008, 21:02
With the term 'make or break' the player that tops it all,
A big call, but Alwyn Davey, 'could' be another, he has been unlucky with injuries, but he is 24 (will admit was picked up as a mature age draftee) but has shown enough to suggest he can play, but cannot manage to string more than a dozen games in a season.
.
I would say its a terrible call actually. He has proven in his two "part" seasons that he is one of our most valuable players. His injuries have been major, a Knee and a broken arm. These are just bad luck, not a sign of chronic injury worries like Dempsey,s Hamstrings and Fractures, or Neagles feet. He has just been unlucky. He is extremely important to EFC and IMO, one of our barometers as far as forward pressure, and tackling. No way is it Make or Break for Alwyn.
AndyLesPaul
2 Sep 2008, 21:07
Care to justify this? Why is it so idiotic to mention Winderlich? He has been at the club for a good 5-6 years now and still can't cement a spot in the 22 without getting injured.
It's been frustrating watching dempsey get injured over the last 2 years, but he's still young. He has more talent than most players on our list and should definately be persisted with imo.
Justified.
He has actually cemented a spot. its just the fact he didnt play this year thats probably got your mind boggling:rolleyes:
I would say its a terrible call actually. He has proven in his two "part" seasons that he is one of our most valuable players. His injuries have been major, a Knee and a broken arm. These are just bad luck, not a sign of chronic injury worries like Dempsey,s Hamstrings and Fractures, or Neagles feet. He has just been unlucky. He is extremely important to EFC and IMO, one of our barometers as far as forward pressure, and tackling. No way is it Make or Break for Alwyn.
Was a make or break season. sorry for p***ing you off bud, ok, :thumbsu:
Big Blow Hard
2 Sep 2008, 21:10
Was a make or break season. sorry for p***ing you off bud, ok, :thumbsu:
No probs. You did not piss me off. I just strongly disagreed. :p
No probs. You did not piss me off. I just strongly disagreed. :p
cheers bud, :p:p:thumbsu:
Here_we_come
3 Sep 2008, 20:48
Justified.
He has actually cemented a spot. its just the fact he didnt play this year thats probably got your mind boggling:rolleyes:
Um, good logic there. The number of years one spends on the list justifies their position does it? i guess J laycock is completely safe then!
I asked a guy to justify why he thinks it's idiotic to say next year is make or break for winderlich, its not actually all that strange.
He has played 56 games in 6 years without polling a single brownlow vote, it's only reasonable to suggest he'll be playing for his future next year.
ManWithNoName
3 Sep 2008, 21:58
Um, good logic there. The number of years one spends on the list justifies their position does it? i guess J laycock is completely safe then!
I asked a guy to justify why he thinks it's idiotic to say next year is make or break for winderlich, its not actually all that strange.
He has played 56 games in 6 years without polling a single brownlow vote, it's only reasonable to suggest he'll be playing for his future next year.
Why don't we just delist people based on how many Dreamteam points they get.
Jonesy1987
3 Sep 2008, 23:40
IMO Knights will persist with Dempsey. He and Gumbleton are practically the poster children for Knights game plan.
Dreadnaught
4 Sep 2008, 13:39
IMO Knights will persist with Dempsey. He and Gumbleton are practically the poster children for Knights game plan.
Good call. At the end of the day, Dempsey's trade value is zilch. It would make no sense to trade him now for a 6th round pick, when we have persisted with him for so long. Give him another year, if he stays fit and healthy his value will take off (not that we would want to trade him if he manages to stay fit for a season).
daniher dynasty
4 Sep 2008, 21:35
I would say that , failing complete physical brealdown , we would still persist with both Courtney and Jay beyond 2009 and there is no chance we will discard CD at the end of this year. Agree with the posts that CD in particular is the classic Knights ' type' .We have too few sucessors to Matt Loyd and Scott L to discard Neagle.
Winderlich is a different case entirely. I really liked him when he arrivd at the club as he had the real pace we were crying out for. But the plain fact is that in 6 years he has not established himself as a player clearly at home at top level. Yes he has shown some form for brief periods , but I cant see how can be said he has cemented himself. I would say even his manager would concede he would struggle to be retained if he doesn't play 12-15 games next year. If he does terrific and i don't say he can't , just that he needs to- that surely is what ' make or break' means. I hope he can and wish him the best.
The Donners
5 Sep 2008, 07:37
Would Winderlich get a game anywhere else??? I wouldn't think so. Perhaps when in doubt about a player, have a think of whether another team would play him as opposed to your own club which may have a little bit of loyalty.
Jason Laycock, will want to make a substantial impact on the game in season 2009, 6 years on the list, about the time a ruckmen starts to come good, showed some signs thisyear, is a mountain of a man, and we all know he can play. is turning 24 next year(24 Nov) and has 58 games to his name, is about time he stamped his name on the game, either as a forward or a ruckmen, that is one player.
Are you suggesting Lazycock might still be with us next season. :eek:
kelvin_sheedy
5 Sep 2008, 11:01
Would Winderlich get a game anywhere else??? I wouldn't think so. Perhaps when in doubt about a player, have a think of whether another team would play him as opposed to your own club which may have a little bit of loyalty.
A fit Winderlich would get a game in any side in the league.
The Donners
5 Sep 2008, 18:54
A fit Winderlich would get a game in any side in the league.
You certainly are pumping up his tyres. Who would you drop at the Cats or the Hawks, just to name 2 teams, to bring in Winderlich?
kelvin_sheedy
6 Sep 2008, 09:27
You certainly are pumping up his tyres. Who would you drop at the Cats or the Hawks, just to name 2 teams, to bring in Winderlich?
Hawks - Stokes, Murphy, Guerra, Young, Osborne, Dew
Cats - Varcoe, Hunt, Prismall, Gamble, Byrnes
The Donners
6 Sep 2008, 09:34
Hawks - Stokes, Murphy, Guerra, Young, Osborne, Dew
Cats - Varcoe, Hunt, Prismall, Gamble, Byrnes
Murphy and Guerra play in defense, we've seen how Winderlich goes playing in defense (see ANZAC Day). Stokes was a late inclusion for Gilham but I see your point, perhaps I should have said Winderlich would not be in the best 22 of any other team in the competition. Osborne plays forward and I hardly think you could replace Osborne with Winderlich... not a good time to be comparing the 2 either after Osborne kicked 4 goals in a final. Young and Dew have booming kicks and both have more versatility, Winderlich can't play anywhere but wing.
Hunt plays defense, Gamble plays as a tall forward, Varcoe is far better than Winderlich, Varcoe has footy smarts... you may have me with Byrnes though! Prismall??? You are kidding aren't you??? He's played half the games of Winderlich and has shown he's a ball magnet with a decent disposal... not great, decent.
Slattery_20
6 Sep 2008, 16:15
OP is probably right
Dempsey & Winders - & I rate them both - need to play at least 15 games and have some impact next year. AFL is not won by some random judgement of talent, it's about how well you can do in tough physical contests.
The road to football success is littered with tragedies - remember Koulouriotis at the Cats? V similar tale to Winderlich.
Neagle might have a bit more time up his sleeve, with the ages of Lloyducas
Club > player
HighettBomber
6 Sep 2008, 17:17
All are long term players, I can't see any of them being dropped even if they have more injuries. It's not like we've got great depth, and all these guys have shown they can play.
Slattery_20
6 Sep 2008, 17:29
Problem is it's hard to build that depth when you have 3 cripples on the list.
I don't think they're gone yet
But promising players do get destroyed by injuries, it can be hard for supporters to accept