View Full Version : Defence for 2009 and onwards
IMO it is important that we fix up our defence for 2009.
Ideally, we need 3 key position defenders and a mixture of small and running defenders.
Ryder should take 1 key forward.
I would play Lucas back for the last 2 years of his career.
He and Fletcher could share one of the key forwards.
This allows Pears and a new draft pick to be groomed as key defenders in the next 2 years.
I am confident that Slattery can be effective as a small defender and we must remember he played the last 2 weeks injured.
This allows for the defence to have 2 rebounding defenders.
I hope that Dempsey and Myers could be two rebounding defenders, allowing Nash, NLM etc to fight out ' depth positions'.
Nash isn't a defender
NLM isn't an AFL player
Ryder is a great CHB and should stay there, and Slattery is ever improving.
Myers has great skill but i doubt he has the speed to be a rebounding defender.
Pears showed a fair bit in his games.
bomberstomake8
1 Sep 2008, 13:34
IMO it is important that we fix up our defence for 2009.
Ideally, we need 3 key position defenders and a mixture of small and running defenders.
Ryder should take 1 key forward.
I would play Lucas back for the last 2 years of his career.
He and Fletcher could share one of the key forwards.
This allows Pears and a new draft pick to be groomed as key defenders in the next 2 years.
I am confident that Slattery can be effective as a small defender and we must remember he played the last 2 weeks injured.
This allows for the defence to have 2 rebounding defenders.
I hope that Dempsey and Myers could be two rebounding defenders, allowing Nash, NLM etc to fight out ' depth positions'.
our defence doesnt just relate to the 6 defenders but to accountability in the midfeild as well.
lucas is needed in the forward line more then the backline imo... its highly unlikely we will get anything close to full seasons out of both neagle and gumbelton next year and he is so much better in the forward line then defence.
i would have fletcher at FB, ryder at CHB, pears to take the third tall forward or even hurley if we get him.
in terms of running reboudning defenders i would hope that dempsey and nash could fill that role, myers a little bit however i would like to see myers in the midfeild more then a HBF we could really use his skills when going inside 50.
ideally neagle and gumbelton would be fighting it out for the third tall position in the forward line and pears and hopefully hurley would be fighting it out for the position to take the third tall defender.
bomberstomake8
1 Sep 2008, 13:38
Nash isn't a defender
NLM isn't an AFL player
Ryder is a great CHB and should stay there, and Slattery is ever improving.
Myers has great skill but i doubt he has the speed to be a rebounding defender.
Pears showed a fair bit in his games.
i dont really get how you can say both those statements.
1. myers is pretty damn quick, he would have the speed aspect covered playing in any position. i dont know how his speed can be used as one of his weaknesses.
2. NLM isnt an AFL player? you judging this off the back of one game, there have been 3 or 4 occasions where he has been amongst our best players this year. sure he can be inconsistent but he is still a good player
3. nash is as much of a defender as any other attacking defender in the league. does as good of a job of defending as shaw, gilbee etc. the problem is we concede a hell of alot of inside 50s with minimum pressure so someone who is trying to create like nash can get caught out of position. if he was in a good team everyone would be rating him as one of the best attacking defenders in the league
IMO Myers will end up as a rebounding defender.
Lucas needs to play back as it will allow Gumby and Neagle to develop in the forward line and also help the backline.
IMO too many posters seem to be interested in where they think a player wants to play as opposed to what is best fore the team.
strting defence IMO:
B: McPhee Fletcher Slattery
HB: Nat-Rat Ryder Myers
Houli2Gumbleton
1 Sep 2008, 16:27
B: Slattery - Fletcher - Hocking
HB: Pears - Ryder - Dempsey/Myers (Play one on the wing).
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 17:57
Young talls - Ryder, Gumbleton, Daniher & Hooker - Either of them could end up playing in the backline at some point in time, and possibly Pears as well if he can grow another couple of centimetres. No real big, bold types though (Michael, Merret, etc) which is a bit of a worry. If we can nab Hurley in the draft, it would be great as it would suit our needs. Our young small backs are okay, always got heaps in that area. Houli, Nash, Welsh, Slattery & Dempsey just to name a few.
Ben the Gooner
1 Sep 2008, 18:00
The AFL record has Pears listed as 191cm, the same as Daniher, and 1cm less than Lloyd and Lucas.
IMO Myers will end up as a rebounding defender.
Lucas needs to play back as it will allow Gumby and Neagle to develop in the forward line and also help the backline.
IMO too many posters seem to be interested in where they think a player wants to play as opposed to what is best fore the team.
I would say you are doing the same thing in regards to Lucas playing defence. Name the forwards who you think that lucas would be able to match up on.
Scotty is not overly quick anymore and he is not the same player he was 4 or 5 years ago when he played CHB.
His best role is KP forward. Thats where he should play.
Biggest myth RE: Pears - Height
He's definitely tall enough to be a KP defender. However, I think he would be more suited to the third tall (ala Sean Wellman) role.
I have question marks on Lucas' pace and agility in defense - especially after his knee problems.
Ben the Gooner
1 Sep 2008, 18:18
ant, it's not so much that his best role is in the forward line (although this is obviously correct).
He is most important to the club in the forward line. Even if he was better in the backline, he is more important in terms of structure in the forward line, so should play there.
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 18:19
Biggest myth RE: Pears - Height
He's definitely tall enough to be a KP defender. However, I think he would be more suited to the third tall (ala Sean Wellman) role.
I have question marks on Lucas' pace and agility in defense - especially after his knee problems.
Lance Franklin - 196cm
Travis Cloke - 196cm
These are the types of blokes he'll have to play on if he wanted to be a KP back. He is 191cm which is quite a substantial amount smaller then them, 5cm in fact.
Windas_Magic
1 Sep 2008, 18:21
We need Lucas up forward, and that's where he'll play.
Hasn't anyone noticed how ****ed our structure has been without him and how much of a difference he made when he came back in?
Windas_Magic
1 Sep 2008, 18:22
Lance Franklin - 196cm
Travis Cloke - 196cm
These are the types of blokes he'll have to play on if he wanted to be a KP back. He is 191cm which is quite a substantial amount smaller then them, 5cm in fact.
No, they're the players that Paddy will play on
Ben the Gooner
1 Sep 2008, 18:22
Bassett - 190cm
Pears - 191cm
Rutten - 192cm
Bock - 193cm
And that's just from the Essendon-Adelaide Record sitting near me.
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 18:26
No, they're the players that Paddy will play on
So you'd expect him to play on the Quinten Lynch, Daniel Bradshaw & Barry Hall types then would you..?
The_Young_Gun
1 Sep 2008, 18:29
I'd like to see this next year:
FB: Slattery, Pears, Fletcher.
HB: McPhee, Ryder, Dempsey/Myers.
For development sake I'd love to see Pears as a key FB next year... Fletcher as default backup (In case Pears/Ryder.ect is getting a spanking).
I'm a bit worried about Slattery because he's gotten a fair few spankings by many small forwards over the season.
As for McPhee, he won All Australian honors there, I think next year will be big for McPhee.
Ryder at HB is a no brainer.
Dempsey and Myers both can swap for that option running off half back.
Off the bench, I'd encourage for:
NLM, Nash, Daniher and Atkinson, who can all replace as key backs.
Lance Franklin - 196cm
Travis Cloke - 196cm
These are the types of blokes he'll have to play on if he wanted to be a KP back. He is 191cm which is quite a substantial amount smaller then them, 5cm in fact.
Scarlett and Glass are both 192cm, they have both won AA jumpers. Don't see the problem.
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 18:33
Scarlett and Glass are both 192cm, they have both won AA jumpers. Don't see the problem.
He hasn't been playing main, lock down roles in defence. He likes to run and carry off the half-back line. Gets a bit nervous on the last line of defence me thinks seeing a fair bit of his footy.
Windas_Magic
1 Sep 2008, 18:35
So you'd expect him to play on the Quinten Lynch, Daniel Bradshaw & Barry Hall types then would you..?
If he was to become a FB, then he would have to play on these types. A lot of forward lines now have smaller, more mobile types anyway which will suit him. You look at Hawthorn, they have the likes of Williams and Roughead. Bulldogs, Welsh and Hahn. Even Geelong, Gamle, Lonergan and Mooney.
He is a very strong kid and only 18, so strength won't be a problem. He isn't going to become a key defender over night, and will need 3-4 years of development, so i don't expect him to be able to beat the likes of Bradshaw on a weekly basis next year.
His height isn't an issue and he has the pace, composure and footy smarts to make it as a good backman, if it's as a key defender or half-back.
He hasn't been playing main, lock down roles in defence. He likes to run and carry off the half-back line. Gets a bit nervous on the last line of defence me thinks seeing a fair bit of his footy.
You can spin it which ever way you like, the fact is, two of the games best key defenders over the past few years have stood at 192cm.
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 18:39
If he was to become a FB, then he would have to play on these types.
That's the problem, I can't see that myself. More of a half-back flanker I reckon, likes making a few runs and creating a fair bit of the play. More than Rutten & Glass I could assure you that.
Dick johnson
1 Sep 2008, 18:40
B: Slattery - Fletcher - Hocking
HB: Pears - Ryder - Dempsey/Myers (Play one on the wing).
hocking is soooo slow, gets outrun by a ruckman. ideally slats would take the 1st small forward, but if theres another, he would absolutey towl heath
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 18:41
You can spin it which ever way you like, the fact is, two of the games best key defenders over the past few years have stood at 192cm.
They have been mainly playing in that last line of defence before they became stars, where has Pears has mainly played that HB role. Could end up like that and wouldn't have any problems if he could hold his own at FB, but personally, I can't see it myself.
Windas_Magic
1 Sep 2008, 18:51
That's the problem, I can't see that myself. More of a half-back flanker I reckon, likes making a few runs and creating a fair bit of the play. More than Rutten & Glass I could assure you that.
I wouldn't mind if he became a half back because he has the tools to become a very good one. Creative, quick, smarts and can play a lock-down role.
Football today has defenders playing on all different opponents anyway. You look at Geelong's team. Scarlett, Harley and Mackie switch on opponents all game, and help each other out by running off their man, something Pears does very well. His height isn't a problem and as i said, he is solidly built.
We still need another key defender but Pears will add quite a bit to our defence for the future
Ludwig van Bertstare
1 Sep 2008, 19:11
B: Slattery, Fletcher, Dempsey
HB: Pears, Ryder, Myers
Wahooti Fandango
1 Sep 2008, 19:40
Surely if Winderlich is fit he could play off the half-back flank.
FB: Slattery Fletcher Nash
HBF: Winderlich Ryder Pears/Myers/Houli/Dempsey
Winderlich is best suited to playing hf/through the midfield.
He can use his 2 best assets ' Gut running ' and disposal into the forward 50.
I still maintain that Lucas is best suited to defence allowing Gumbleton and Neagle to develop in the forward line.
I would look at recruiting a ' Nick Suban ' type in the ND with a view to supporting Slattery as a small defender.
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 21:52
I wouldn't mind if he became a half back because he has the tools to become a very good one. Creative, quick, smarts and can play a lock-down role.
Football today has defenders playing on all different opponents anyway. You look at Geelong's team. Scarlett, Harley and Mackie switch on opponents all game, and help each other out by running off their man, something Pears does very well. His height isn't a problem and as i said, he is solidly built.
We still need another key defender but Pears will add quite a bit to our defence for the future
Agree on all fronts there.
bOmBeR_BoY1
1 Sep 2008, 21:57
What about the potential recruitment of Michael Hurley at number 5 in the National Draft?
Just speculation of course, but he will go fairly early and could be a very suitable option for us as some are suggesting. I'd personally hate him to slip through our fingers and Carlton snatch him up, but that's just my own opinion.
Will be a question of recruiting for our needs or recruiting the best available player at the time. You could make a good debate for either.
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 21:59
I still maintain that Lucas is best suited to defence allowing Gumbleton and Neagle to develop in the forward line.
Not sold on this comment. He isn't quick, has played the majority of his footy at CHF, and has been pretty successful there most/if not all would agree. Most of us think that you can't teach a dawg new tricks, so not sure why'd we change now nearing the end of his career. He should be played where he plays his best footy, and in my opinion, his best position is far and away up forward where he can hurt the opposition with his long range kicking and his marking capabilities. I get the gist of your comment, as it would be nice to further develop Gumby & Neagle, but lets not rush them. If they're ready and firing, they'll put some heat on Lucas and might even end up pushing Lucas as an example out of the side, much like JJ, Pev & Mal this year who haven't played the whole season because of the surge of the young kids.
Knight Ryders
1 Sep 2008, 22:05
We would waste a draft pick if we pick a KP defender in our first two picks. We desperately need more talent thru the midfield as we have drafted well in the area of KP forward and back over the last three years.
We would waste a draft pick if we pick a KP defender in our first two picks. We desperately need more talent thru the midfield as we have drafted well in the area of KP forward and back over the last three years.
Interesting thoughts... My thoughts on Pears (i.e., like what I see) I have stated before but I also like what I saw in Hooker on the weekend. Did some nice things, especially in close. Does not look great overhead at present but more than held his own as far as a second gamer goes. So Ryder, Pears, Hooker as 3 tall defenders when Fletch leaves? There probably is a case to suggest that one of these will not make it so there is a need for one more. Hurley could be this man, or maybe we will find him in the second round?
B: Slattery, Fletcher, Dempsey
HB: Pears, Ryder, Myers
This would make me a very happy man in 2009 RIG.:)... I just love that HB line... Now rhat is a defence that you can build a team around.. I would like to see Myers rotated through the midfield though
Colin D'Cops
1 Sep 2008, 22:21
We would waste a draft pick if we pick a KP defender in our first two picks. We desperately need more talent thru the midfield as we have drafted well in the area of KP forward and back over the last three years.
Yeah, I don't think we should go defenders with both our first two picks.
One would have to be though in my opinion. Either Michael Hurley with our first pick or Jordan Jones as an example with our second. Or we can go Hamish Hartlett say with our first or David Zaharakis with our second. A midfielder/defender combination going either way would be ideal, unless say Trengove slips through to our second which shouldn't happen.
bOmBeR_BoY1
1 Sep 2008, 22:22
Hurley won't be sticking around until pick 10, let alone the second round.
The midfield was our major concern a couple of years ago, granted, and still is to a smaller extent, I think the focus has to shift towards our defensive unit now, or 'lack' of one...
As I said, everyone has an opinion about it and this is just mine.
Darealrath
1 Sep 2008, 22:24
I liked McPhee up forward this year but he has to go back next season. With Lloyd playing further up the ground, Lucas back, and trying to give game time to a hopefully fit Neagle and Gumbleton we are stacked for talls up forward.
I don't mind NLM, but he isn't and never will be a key defender. I'd use him off the bench on the wing or half forward, where he can cause teams a lot of trouble.
Pears showed some great signs in the seniors this season, I think he needs to be developed in the seniors next to Fletch.
I really like Nash, but defensively he needs some work, plus I'd like to see how he goes on the wing, kicking the ball into the forward 50. He could be deadly.
Myers looked great. I think he'll end up in the midfield but I'd play him half back next season so he doesn't get smashed.
Slattery is an honest player and with Welsh and McVeigh moving to the midfield just about our only proven small defender.
I'd like to see:
B: Pears Fletcher Slattery
HB: McPhee Ryder Myers
half time raffle
2 Sep 2008, 13:54
Houli is the forgotten man here, i think he is clearly a better small defender prospect than slattery. Also Myers should be groomed as a midfield option, he looks very judd like the way he moves in traffic. The back 6 next year should look something like this:
B: Houli Fletcher Pears
HB: Dempsey Ryder Nash or Winderlich
Houli is the forgotten man here, i think he is clearly a better small defender prospect than slattery. Also Myers should be groomed as a midfield option, he looks very judd like the way he moves in traffic. The back 6 next year should look something like this:
B: Houli Fletcher Pears
HB: Dempsey Ryder Nash or Winderlich
NOOOOOOOOOOO! he is too valuable in the midfield
B: Slattery Fletcher Pears
HB: Houli/Nash Ryder Dempsey/Myers
B: Slattery Fletcher Pears
HB: Houli/Nash Ryder Dempsey/Myers
Loving the signature whomb:thumbsu::)
Ben the Gooner
2 Sep 2008, 20:26
I find it interesting that no-one is mentioning Reimers as a potential lock down backman for a year or two while he develops into a goal scoring midfielder.
I find it interesting that no-one is mentioning Reimers as a potential lock down backman for a year or two while he develops into a goal scoring midfielder.
Ben-- I recon he is too damaging further up the ground... just love this guy forward of the centre
Ben the Gooner
2 Sep 2008, 20:42
Long term I see Reimers as a mid who kicks goals, but in the short term I think he'd help Slats out immensely, and would provide a good set of skills and the ability to run the lines in the back half.
Long term I see Reimers as a mid who kicks goals, but in the short term I think he'd help Slats out immensely, and would provide a good set of skills and the ability to run the lines in the back half.
Agree he has all these skills.. would not mind him on HB line, but not as lock down defender. I recon that this is a need we need to draft for this year.. No doubt he could the job though:thumbsu:
Ben the Gooner
2 Sep 2008, 21:21
Agree he has all these skills.. would not mind him on HB line, but not as lock down defender. I recon that this is a need we need to draft for this year.. No doubt he could the job though:thumbsu:
That's why I'm hoping like hell that Suban falls to 23. He could be an excellent lock down defender.
This is why we need to draft a ' Nick Suban ' type in the ND.
Why dont you have alook at the benchmark, see where we are at,
Matthew Scarlett - Dustin Fletcher
Darren Milburn - NO ONE
Max Rooke - NO ONE
David Johnson - NO ONE
Matthew Egan - Tayte Pears
Josh Hunt - Henry Slattery
Andrew Mackie - David Myers
Tom Harley - Adam McPhee
Harry Taylor - Paddy Ryder
we are lacking another small defender, Mcphee has played his best footy as that player running back with the flight of the ball, ala Tom Harley, but no one will listen to me, we have no one to replace Slats if he gets injured, and only really have the one creative rebounder (myers), so we are severlylacking,
thoughts...
timbo3195
2 Sep 2008, 22:30
Matthew Scarlett - Dustin Fletcher
Darren Milburn - Michael Hurley
Max Rooke - Jarrod Atkinson/NLM
David Johnson(I guess he's here as the Hunt/Slats replacement) - Nick Suban
Matthew Egan - Tayte Pears
Josh Hunt - Henry Slattery
Andrew Mackie - David Myers
Tom Harley - Adam McPhee
Harry Taylor - Paddy Ryder
Problems solved.
Long term I see Reimers as a mid who kicks goals, but in the short term I think he'd help Slats out immensely, and would provide a good set of skills and the ability to run the lines in the back half.
I reckon you can swap Reimers with Sloppy. With the emergence of Lonergan as our #1 young clearance winner, IMO there isn't going to be a lot of opportunity for Tommy if McVeigh, Watson, Lonergan are all fit.
Its been mentioned on here before and I also think that Sloppy would make a good BP in the short-term.
bomberstomake8
3 Sep 2008, 14:43
I reckon you can swap Reimers with Sloppy. With the emergence of Lonergan as our #1 young clearance winner, IMO there isn't going to be a lot of opportunity for Tommy if McVeigh, Watson, Lonergan are all fit.
Its been mentioned on here before and I also think that Sloppy would make a good BP in the short-term.
i agree completely he has all the tools for a really good defender.
he has the speed the skill, size could be an issue but that will come in time
most importantly he has that aggression that we have been missing since the barnard, hardwick, solomon, MJ days
B: Slatts Fletch Pears
hb: Dempsey Ryder Myers/Winderlich
NLM and Nash should be played no where near defense, anyone who thinks they can defend has not watched an essendon game all year.
Will not make our best 22
Oh, and Houli in the BP is as dumb as knights playing courntey johns on pendlebury on ANZAC day. Houli is our next gun midflielder.
Ben the Gooner
3 Sep 2008, 17:18
Hurley is not a comparison to Darren Milburn.
The_Young_Gun
3 Sep 2008, 17:18
Nash should go next to Josh Hunts name...
Slattery has a terrible kick... and gives no effort in gettgn the ball out of defence. (too worried about his own man)
I'd love Nash to be our first kick out of defence... which goes off to Myers, handball to Reimers, short kick to Houli and then penetrating kick to Neagle... Sorry, just got carried away in predicting next years preliminary...
mark_johnson#1
3 Sep 2008, 17:19
I hate this height "issue" people have with tall defenders. So many more things come into it rather than just their height, its their speed, their leap, the midfield pressure.. Im telling you now great defences are made by their midfield.
Pears is not short enough, and i can see him as a scarlett type attacking FB. He looks atleast 193-4 now, but honestly when your talking about it its like 2 or 3 cm, hardly makes a difference, its just the way you play.
I'd love Nash to be our first kick out of defence... which goes off to Myers, handball to Reimers, short kick to Houli and then penetrating kick to Neagle, who quickly goes onto the right and squares it to Gumbleton who then walks in and kicks the goal.
Don't mind I did that YG?
Ludwig van Bertstare
3 Sep 2008, 19:07
I'd love Nash to be our first kick out of defence... which he kicks to Myers despite being double teamed but Myers is good enough to recover, handball to Reimers, short kick to Houli and then penetrating kick to Neagle, who quickly goes onto the right and squares it to Gumbleton who then walks in and kicks the goal.
Fixed.