GC17 takes lease out at Carrara.

[CoastBhoy]

GC17 has taken a 4 year lease out at Carrara , so the new Gold Coast team will be playing out of there for the 2011 and 2012 seasons and also using it as a training base for the TAC cup and VFL team . I thought this was very interesting considering that we have not been given a license yet.

[CoastBhoy]

Also in other news the AFL has told the GC council thats its preferred site for the new stadium is a parcel of land at Helensvale in the northern corridor next to train station and Westfield shopping centre , the council on Friday pledged 10 mil to the building of the stadium but are trying to convince the AFL that a revamped Carrara or a parcel of land near Nerang is the way to go.
The AFL has drawn up plans for the stadium that will cost 172 mil , the plans include a business district around the stadium for the AFL to recoup some of the money.

[Funkalicous]

Helensvale's obviously been suggested so people from Brisbane can make the trip down. It's not a bad location...

Might be right next door to Movie World.

[1903]

GC17 has taken a 4 year lease out at Carrara , so the new Gold Coast team will be playing out of there for the 2011 and 2012 seasons and also using it as a training base for the TAC cup and VFL team . I thought this was very interesting considering that we have not been given a license yet.

It would be remiss of the consortium not take preliminary action.

[Stereophonic]

Hmm not sure about Carrara, brings back bad memories of the Bears, but of course in the short term there is not much in the way of alternatives.

[hands_in_the_back]

GC17 has taken a 4 year lease out at Carrara , so the new Gold Coast team will be playing out of there for the 2011 and 2012 seasons and also using it as a training base for the TAC cup and VFL team . I thought this was very interesting considering that we have not been given a license yet.

It's easily the best surface on the Coast and is a good choice because it is an AFL venue. I'd assume the lease would be the same as the contracts with the GC17 players, if they don't get the license the contract is null and void.

[Beaussie]

Also in other news the AFL has told the GC council thats its preferred site for the new stadium is a parcel of land at Helensvale in the northern corridor next to train station and Westfield shopping centre , the council on Friday pledged 10 mil to the building of the stadium but are trying to convince the AFL that a revamped Carrara or a parcel of land near Nerang is the way to go.
The AFL has drawn up plans for the stadium that will cost 172 mil , the plans include a business district around the stadium for the AFL to recoup some of the money.

Surely the Helensvale site is the best option as it's next to a train station and as you've pointed out a retail complex. From what I've heard, Carrara is difficult to get to if using public transport.

[CoastBhoy]

It would be remiss of the consortium not take preliminary action.


I agree , but its not called the white elephant for nothing , there's not an array of teams from other codes trying to poach the ground . But what it does say is the AFL have given the green light , and this October deadline we hear is all for show.

[Stereophonic]

It's easily the best surface on the Coast and is a good choice because it is an AFL venue. I'd assume the lease would be the same as the contracts with the GC17 players, if they don't get the license the contract is null and void.

or if you want terminated, or better yet it should be void ab initio

[SweetLeftFoot]

Good news, I hope it works out.

To think its almost a year since Gillon McLachlan assured us we were only a week or two away from s stadium deal ...

[hot_pies81]

To be honest I'm surprised the deal is for four years. Considering the franchise is practically a definite now, I would have thought once they get the official go-ahead they would have done everything possible to get a new stadiam up and ready by the start of the 2012 season at the very latest.

I do think Helensvale is the better option, though it will be a longer trip for me :o. The train station is right there and by the that stage, the train line will stretch all the way past Tugan, making getting there and back easy. This will also coincide nicely with the proposed Rapid Transit System, connecting both the Helensvale and (new) Parkwood train stations.

The business and retail district also offers far more potential than what Carrara, or even Nerang is capable of, as there is still plenty of usable space out there and is continually expanding.

One last point is that as much as the Helensvale site will facilitate public transport more than Carrara, it is still important that there will be plenty of parking available for thos who wish to travel by car. Titans supporters in the RL have to walk some very long distances to see their team play because Skilled Park has no parking at all, and that would just give me the s**ts:)

[fishmonger]

GC17 has taken a 4 year lease out at Carrara , so the new Gold Coast team will be playing out of there for the 2011 and 2012 seasons and also using it as a training base for the TAC cup and VFL team . I thought this was very interesting considering that we have not been given a license yet.

not really.

Its called covering your bases.

Would be cheap as chips to rent.

I mean does anyone else actually use the dump ??? :o

[Chasing the Dream]

Helensvale's obviously been suggested so people from Brisbane can make the trip down. It's not a bad location...

Might be right next door to Movie World.

My information on the Helensvale site is that it is almost next to the train station and takes in some of the Golf Course that is there at the moment (Gold Coast Country Club, possibly the worst coarse on the Coast:o)

Surely the Helensvale site is the best option as it's next to a train station and as you've pointed out a retail complex. From what I've heard, Carrara is difficult to get to if using public transport.

Helensvale would be the perfect place, but the roads around Carrara have certainly improved over the last two years, also they now have a traffic managaement system for post match to get the cars out in a streamlined manner. The biggest problem with Carrara would be the stigma that is associated with the history of the place,

Also it would probably be cheaper to start from scratch on a venue rather that have to demolish what is there.

[Ant_]

I hate that Carrara ground, Helensvale sounds good.

[Fender]

Carrara is a crap hole.

[Salad dodger]

My concern about Helensvale is its not in the heart of the coast or Brissie its kind of no mans land, I understand that it makes it easier for people from Brissie to come down but if they are going to travel 40 mins to Helensvale they will travel 50 min to Carrara. What if people from Brissie don't want to travel 40 mins and people on the coast dont want to travel 15, 20mins depending on where they live, this staduim could become such a stinker that it makes Carrara look good.

We get one shot at this people, Carrara or Nerang for me.

[Ant_]

My concern about Helensvale is its not in the heart of the coast or Brissie its kind of no mans land, I understand that it makes it easier for people from Brissie to come down but if they are going to travel 40 mins to Helensvale they will travel 50 min to Carrara. What if people from Brissie don't want to travel 40 mins and people on the coast dont want to travel 15, 20mins depending on where they live, this staduim could become such a stinker that it makes Carrara look good.

We get one shot at this people, Carrara or Nerang for me.

You're saying ppl will not want to travel 15-20 min?? FFS most of the coast drive\train to Brisbane each day.

[hot_pies81]

My concern about Helensvale is its not in the heart of the coast or Brissie its kind of no mans land, I understand that it makes it easier for people from Brissie to come down but if they are going to travel 40 mins to Helensvale they will travel 50 min to Carrara. What if people from Brissie don't want to travel 40 mins and people on the coast dont want to travel 15, 20mins depending on where they live, this staduim could become such a stinker that it makes Carrara look good.

We get one shot at this people, Carrara or Nerang for me.

I'm pretty certain most people in Melbourne don't have a loft overlooking the MCG or Telstra Dome and a 5min walk to the ground. People will travel the distance. Hell, its quicker to get to Helensvale from Southport than it is Carrara, and I (mermaid waters) certainlly won't have any problems travelling that relatively short distance to watch a game of footy.

[CoastBhoy]

My concern about Helensvale is its not in the heart of the coast or Brissie its kind of no mans land, I understand that it makes it easier for people from Brissie to come down but if they are going to travel 40 mins to Helensvale they will travel 50 min to Carrara. What if people from Brissie don't want to travel 40 mins and people on the coast dont want to travel 15, 20mins depending on where they live, this staduim could become such a stinker that it makes Carrara look good.

We get one shot at this people, Carrara or Nerang for me.

Right at this moment you are right , but the northern part of the Gold Coast is the fastest growing region in Australia , and in lets say 20 years , Helensvale could be more central than we think.

[PDJohnson]

The train station is right there and by the that stage, the train line will stretch all the way past Tugan, making getting there and back easy. :)

A train line past Tugun ?? Since when was that anounced ?? (I'm in Tweed Heads & hope this info is correct):)

[PDJohnson]

My concern about Helensvale is its not in the heart of the coast or Brissie its kind of no mans land, I understand that it makes it easier for people from Brissie to come down but if they are going to travel 40 mins to Helensvale they will travel 50 min to Carrara. What if people from Brissie don't want to travel 40 mins and people on the coast dont want to travel 15, 20mins depending on where they live, this staduim could become such a stinker that it makes Carrara look good.

We get one shot at this people, Carrara or Nerang for me.

Nerang is the go (also next to a train station & CENTRAL on the Gold Coast. However, they maybe concidering the rise in population of Logan City and may want the reach into this area, beyond GC City limits (just like the NSW Northern Rivers)?? But Carrara - nope!;)

[hot_pies81]

A train line past Tugun ?? Since when was that anounced ?? (I'm in Tweed Heads & hope this info is correct):)

I can't remember my source, but it was an official site of either QR, the QLD govt. or GCCC. The Varsity to Tugan proposal is still in its early stages, but the Tugan Bypass tunnel was actually built with provisions for a train line to run beneath it. The QLD and NSW govts have been discussing a joint line for the better part of a decade now, but it will still be a few years yet before it becomes a reality.

[fairdinkum]

But what it does say is the AFL have given the green light , and this October deadline we hear is all for show.

Yeah, because this whole 'license tender' hasn't been a charade from day dot. :rolleyes:

[fairdinkum]

Good news, I hope it works out.

To think its almost a year since Gillon McLachlan assured us we were only a week or two away from s stadium deal ...

Whatchutalkinbout, Willis?

[Father Jack]

Helensvale will be fine, anything off the M1 won't be too hard to get to, as for Cararra, I have only one thing to say about that place:

http://www.global-b2b-network.com/direct/dbimage/50318666/Bulldozer.jpg

[Shinboner Schem]

My concern about Helensvale is its not in the heart of the coast or Brissie its kind of no mans land, I understand that it makes it easier for people from Brissie to come down but if they are going to travel 40 mins to Helensvale they will travel 50 min to Carrara. What if people from Brissie don't want to travel 40 mins and people on the coast dont want to travel 15, 20mins depending on where they live, this staduim could become such a stinker that it makes Carrara look good.

We get one shot at this people, Carrara or Nerang for me.
Firstly, it'll take longer than 10 mins to get to Carrara from Brissie.
Secondly, Carrara is no-where near a train station and no stadium has enough parking for everyone if they all came by car.

[Gibbke]

I don't mind Carrara, actually, kind of reminds me of Aurora Stadium, which was my second home growing up, back in the days before they turned it into an AFL-standard venue...;)

But Helensvale probably is the go. Yeah, it is a bit desolate up there by capital city standards today, but that whole Movieworld postcode is only a few decades away from being pure suburbia...Brisbane/Gold Coast will be absolutely massive by the time we're all old age pensioners...and Helensvale will be landlocked right in the middle of it all...

[mediumsizered]

But Helensvale probably is the go. Yeah, it is a bit desolate up there by capital city standards today, but that whole Movieworld postcode is only a few decades away from being pure suburbia...Brisbane/Gold Coast will be absolutely massive by the time we're all old age pensioners...and Helensvale will be landlocked right in the middle of it all...

You've got that right. The growth in the corridor between Ormeau & Helensvale will make a ground located at Helensvale the perfect catchment for supporters from this area, as well as being easily accessible for the significant population base around Carrara, Merrimac, Highland Park, Robina etc.

Carrara has served its purpose in the infancy of AFL football on the Gold Coast, but is not really suited to being the long term home of a Gold Coast AFL team.

[Black Falcon]

Nerang is the go (also next to a train station & CENTRAL on the Gold Coast. However, they maybe concidering the rise in population of Logan City and may want the reach into this area, beyond GC City limits (just like the NSW Northern Rivers)?? But Carrara - nope!;)

I can remember Nerang being offered as a swap for Carrara, Nerang being close to the GC Council HQ, and a train station. The catch though, is that GC still needs a ground to train and play on, so until a new stadium gets built, Carrara is it for the next 4 yrs, even at its 12,000 capacity.

Nerang is the historical centre of GC (sugar plantations). The Helensvale site is interesting as an option. The BLions have sensed the importance of the emerging Logan City (between it and GC) and have set up a Lions Supporter Club at Springwood. Logan will be the tug-o-war between BLions and GC for supporters, so the Helensvale site has merit, plus plenty of land and development potential.

Whether its H or N, I'll be training down. Perhaps that GC Cwealth Games bid in 2018 will swing it in Helensvale's favour, with its accompanying need for all those other venues nearby to an athletes village.

Carrara might still be kept on as a training ground and junior rep base, pre-season games set up. It could still be a necessary back-up. The BLions suffer with no back-up stadium when cricket impinges its season at both ends of the year. (Why they don't arrange something with the QE2 stadium-50,000- with a covering over the track similar to soccer clubs on athletic stadiums, is worth exploring.)

[CoastBhoy]

You've got that right. The growth in the corridor between Ormeau & Helensvale will make a ground located at Helensvale the perfect catchment for supporters from this area, as well as being easily accessible for the significant population base around Carrara, Merrimac, Highland Park, Robina etc.

Carrara has served its purpose in the infancy of AFL football on the Gold Coast, but is not really suited to being the long term home of a Gold Coast AFL team.

Your right , plus the Pacific Pines estate now houses 15,000 people and getting bigger . I read an article in the Bulletin a few months back where the council did a study for future planning , and they say Coomera will be the most populated area on the Coast in 20 years , so if that is the case Helensvale will be an ideal location.

[Black Falcon]

There are development estates happening on some of the old sugar cane farms east of Beenleigh, Yatala is the big industrial estate just south of it, and Pimpama is becoming home to 'green' building estates. Then there's all the space around Coomera, and the Helensvale case is growing.

I know that there is a specific parcel of land at Nerang near the train station for a stadium to be built at, but as to whether Nerang could accommodate car parking, plus the extra influx of not 12,000 but 35,000 + GC fans would have to also be part of a feasibility report. ;)

[PDJohnson]

I know that there is a specific parcel of land at Nerang near the train station for a stadium to be built at, but as to whether Nerang could accommodate car parking, plus the extra influx of not 12,000 but 35,000 + GC fans would have to also be part of a feasibility report. ;)

If it's next to a train station, it won't need a large carpark. Skilled Park (next to a train station) at Robina has stuff-all parking.:cool:

[Black Falcon]

I'm talking about the general congestion of traffic around a venue, and the availablity of parking. Gabba is diabolical. Not everyone can train to a venue. The 'hinterlanders' will still be driving down by car, as will many at the south end of GC and those from northern NSW. I haven't heard too many good reports about the bus service at GC. Will it be up to the job?

[Ant_]

I'm talking about the general congestion of traffic around a venue, and the availablity of parking. Gabba is diabolical. Not everyone can train to a venue. The 'hinterlanders' will still be driving down by car, as will many at the south end of GC and those from northern NSW. I haven't heard too many good reports about the bus service at GC. Will it be up to the job?

Especially with that dodgy GABBA parking bullshit law they introduced.

[Father Jack]

Especially with that dodgy GABBA parking bullshit law they introduced.


That would be the one where they apparently have a sign somewhere listing the laws that you have no idea about until you get a ticket for parking in a street with absolutely no signs whatsoever indicating you can't park there?

If so, I don't like that law either.

[Ant_]

That would be the one where they apparently have a sign somewhere listing the laws that you have no idea about until you get a ticket for parking in a street with absolutely no signs whatsoever indicating you can't park there?

If so, I don't like that law either.

Yep I see you got a fine as well.

[CoastBhoy]

Yep I see you got a fine as well.

Well ive been done twice , so you can take the tally to 4.:D

[Ant_]

Well ive been done twice , so you can take the tally to 4.:D

Stupid ****ing brisbane city council. :mad:

[Father Jack]

Yep I see you got a fine as well.

I walked up and down the bloody street beforehand as well and still got done. In one of those streets up from the Pineapple. Met a mate up there the other week as well who had never been to the footy before, he reckoned he had parked safely as he'd checked it out thoroughly, but ... guess what? :o

I would hope that the new stadium would have some sort of parking nearby, but I aint counting on it.

[mediumsizered]

I walked up and down the bloody street beforehand as well and still got done. In one of those streets up from the Pineapple. Met a mate up there the other week as well who had never been to the footy before, he reckoned he had parked safely as he'd checked it out thoroughly, but ... guess what? :o

I would hope that the new stadium would have some sort of parking nearby, but I aint counting on it.

The sidestreets up past the Diana Plaza Hotel have been alright for me. It's a bit of a hike to the ground, but a better (& cheaper) option than copping a parking ticket closer to the ground. One good thing about Carrara, you can park near Royal Pines & not worry about finding a decoration on your windscreen when you get back to your car.

[Ant_]

The sidestreets up past the Diana Plaza Hotel have been alright for me. It's a bit of a hike to the ground, but a better (& cheaper) option than copping a parking ticket closer to the ground. One good thing about Carrara, you can park near Royal Pines & not worry about finding a decoration on your windscreen when you get back to your car.

That dodgy screw you over parking area if you look on the map is a 1.5k radius around the ground. So maybe you've been lucky (unless its over that distance)

[Black Falcon]

I got done once, and after that decided to hoof it down from Mowbray ferry terminal. The two hour parking max signs during a game are only on the major roads leading in. Rat runners miss these and are rewarded with window confetti.

'Park and Ride' bus stations work well, as do charity $5 and $10 parking at any business or council carparks in a 1km radius of ground. (QE2 stadium was good for that)

GC17 please take note........ppl do need to drive to games, even if they then have to get a shuttle bus or pay a charity fee for parking. ;)

[Black Falcon]

Fellas, we'll have to get ourselves organised next year to catch a game. I'll be on the lookout for Father Jack, with his dog collar, robes and rosary..............:o

[Father Jack]

And then when I decided to catch the train, they blocked the trainline and delayed me by two hours, I got to the Gabba half way through the third quarter. :mad:

Which is why the sooner there is a team playing out of the GC the better, as far as I am concerned.

[RussellEbertHandball]

GC17 has taken a 4 year lease out at Carrara , so the new Gold Coast team will be playing out of there for the 2011 and 2012 seasons and also using it as a training base for the TAC cup and VFL team . I thought this was very interesting considering that we have not been given a license yet.

Surely that lease would have a "subject to" clause in the schedule of conditions. If they don't get the licence then the directors have a decent liability with out that clause.

Or unless the lease is direct with the AFL or AFL are the guarantor, who do have a history of signing long term leases and being stuck to the terms to their disadvantage,ie MCG 40 yerars + finals deal, Telstra Dome 35+ games a year deal, Gabba 2015 deal to name three.

Then again the way the AFL have been progressing with draft conditions, TAC side, VFL progression, etc the GC17 team appears to be over the line.

[Black Falcon]

Yeah, home and hosed, just about, just as the AFL wanted.
Still the question has to be asked: what will be the GC long term home? Plenty of threads on that. :rolleyes:

[zzzapp]

Hey CoastBhoy,

Where'd you get your news from?
I love to find out more

[1903]

Surely that lease would have a "subject to" clause in the schedule of conditions. If they don't get the licence then the directors have a decent liability with out that clause.


If there's no team, then there's no money and liability isn't an issue.

[RussellEbertHandball]

If there's no team, then there's no money and liability isn't an issue.

Not necessarily so. If you've ever negotaited a lease you would know that Directors guarantees and/or Bank guarantees are a standard part of a lease usually part of the schedule of conditions. They may have asked for an AFL guarantte. So it becomes an issue for the directors and/or bankers of GC17 Ltd if there wasn't a, subject to a licence being granted, clause, and guarantees were sought by the owners of Carrara. You would think they have inserted such a clause, but you never know with the AFL. They have form in dropping the ball when signing stadium contracts.

[1903]

If you've ever negotiated a lease you would know ....

...It all depends on the parties concerned.
If you've ever negotiated a lease you would know that sometimes it goes the other way and there are honeymoon clauses and other incentives to attract new clients especially in niche markets .

Heck rl clubs are paid to play at Homebush.
Do you think that they were asked for a bank guarantee?
Aren't 2 or 3 clubs pulling out of that arrangement next year.

[RussellEbertHandball]

...It all depends on the parties concerned.
If you've ever negotiated a lease you would know that sometimes it goes the other way and there are honeymoon clauses and other incentives to attract new clients especially in niche markets .

Heck rl clubs are paid to play at Homebush.
Do you think that they were asked for a bank guarantee?
Aren't 2 or 3 clubs pulling out of that arrangement next year.

I don't think Carrara is offering a honeymoon clause or incentives. They know the GC17 have nowhere to go before they can get out of the AFL's Gabba deal. If guarantees were asked for, they probably went in this order of request ;
AFL
Directors
Bank

The AFL has given guarantees to the bankers of 10 clubs ranging from $250,000 to $5,000,000 as at 31 October 2007, so another one probably doesn't phase them.

[Subprime]

I thought Carrara was owned by the GCCC who have been very supportive of GC17 and will be involved in the new stadium to some degree.

[RussellEbertHandball]

I thought Carrara was owned by the GCCC who have been very supportive of GC17 and will be involved in the new stadium to some degree.

Yep, but they have made very little money out of the ground over the last 17 years apart from the first year of the Titans whilst they were building Skilled Park at Robina. Who knows if they still have any debts associated with it.

Funny story re Carrara, a guy who I'm involved with in the technology development group a few of us are trying to get off the ground, was the city engineer for the GC council before it merged with the Albert Shire. When Skase went into receivership he got wind that the receivers were going to take the light towers away and sell them to raise funds as Skase purchased them. So he got council workers to weld over the nuts and bolts and turn them into a part of the ground rather than a fixture and fitting that could be removed by the receivers. The courts ruled in favour of the council over the receivers and the light towers stayed.

[Subprime]

Yep, but they have made very little money out of the ground over the last 17 years apart from the first year of the Titans whilst they were building Skilled Park at Robina. Who knows if they still have any debts associated with it.

Funny story re Carrara, a guy who I'm involved with in the technology development group a few of us are trying to get off the ground, was the city engineer for the GC council before it merged with the Albert Shire. When Skase went into receivership he got wind that the receivers were going to take the light towers away and sell them to raise funds as Skase purchased them. So he got council workers to weld over the nuts and bolts and turn them into a part of the ground rather than a fixture and fitting that could be removed by the receivers. The courts ruled in favour of the council over the receivers and the light towers stayed.

Scrap metal prices today might have got the recievers trying harder I'd bet.

Anyway Carrara's relatively old now, I doubt they owe anything on it. I heard Ron Clarke, the GC mayor, before the last game this year saying the council would kick $10m into the new ground.

[1903]

I don't think Carrara is offering a honeymoon clause or incentives. .

And I don't think the AFL wouldn't have an out clause .

[sausageroll]

Also in other news the AFL has told the GC council thats its preferred site for the new stadium is a parcel of land at Helensvale in the northern corridor next to train station and Westfield shopping centre , the council on Friday pledged 10 mil to the building of the stadium but are trying to convince the AFL that a revamped Carrara or a parcel of land near Nerang is the way to go.
The AFL has drawn up plans for the stadium that will cost 172 mil , the plans include a business district around the stadium for the AFL to recoup some of the money.

Great. Only a 5 minute drive from my home:D

[RussellEbertHandball]

And I don't think the AFL wouldn't have an out clause .

I would like to think so, but they have form, as they have stuffed up before on long term contracts for the MCG, Docklands and the Gabba, which have had no flexibility in them.

[1903]

I would like to think so, but they have form,

Different scenario. AFL has more recent good form too with stadiums.
They haven't been sucked into any agreements in WA and SA thank god
and now we are in a better position to negoiate a new deal.

[CoastBhoy]

Funny story re Carrara, a guy who I'm involved with in the technology development group a few of us are trying to get off the ground, was the city engineer for the GC council before it merged with the Albert Shire. When Skase went into receivership he got wind that the receivers were going to take the light towers away and sell them to raise funds as Skase purchased them. So he got council workers to weld over the nuts and bolts and turn them into a part of the ground rather than a fixture and fitting that could be removed by the receivers. The courts ruled in favour of the council over the receivers and the light towers stayed.

:D

I'd had'nt heard of that , the light towers at Carrara are the only things worth keeping .

[hot_pies81]

Anyway Carrara's relatively old now, I doubt they owe anything on it. I heard Ron Clarke, the GC mayor, before the last game this year saying the council would kick $10m into the new ground.

Christ know's they've got the cash. Council rates for my pissy little 2 bedroom unit are outrageous!