how long will Scott Lucas be in our best 22?

[Mr Mosquito]

I know i will get some anger in response to this BUT in my personal opinion i think that a positive sign of Essendons future will be if Scott Lucas is not in our best 22 by the end of 2009.


I just think that of the tall forwards that we currently have:
-Lloyd -Gumbleton -Lucas - Mcphee -Neagle

We obviously cant play all of these guys forward......Mcphee will probably play back.

I see Neagle being at FF, LLoyd at CHF and Gumbleton up around the wing and drifiting forward. I think Lucas just doesnt have the aerobic capacity to play a role like Richo has this year and that by the end of the year we would like Gumby to be the 3rd tall target up forward.

I just see Scotty being squeezed out of the team if things going according to plan for essendon next year.....maybe 2009 is his last

[Bombers1234]

Well if we dont take Hurley with #5, i think that Lucas will play an important role as CHB.

[The_Young_Gun]

He's a game winner...

At his dead set prime!

I think he'll be guaranteed a spot in the team till 2012.

[windyhill]

Quite easy to say that when the bloke has missed pretty much the whole year and has realised that one year contracts are now the go. I`ve defended Scott Lucas since he came to the club and people still seem to love to chip away at him, high amusement in my book.

[High Ryder]

Comical stuff...

[Mr Mosquito]

He's a game winner...

At his dead set prime!

I think he'll be guaranteed a spot in the team till 2012.


no need to be loyal just for the sake of it buddy. I love lucas as a player too but he is on the decline. He is still capable of playing good footy and think that he will probably be our 2nd or 3rd option forward next year.

u are saying that in 2012 that we will want him to be an option ahead of Gumby, Neagle and LLoyd who will have greater longevity thatn Lucas and even he may not see 2012.

Scotty is not the type of player who can play till he is 34

[The_Young_Gun]

no need to be loyal just for the sake of it buddy. I love lucas as a player too but he is on the decline. He is still capable of playing good footy and think that he will probably be our 2nd or 3rd option forward next year.

u are saying that in 2012 that we will want him to be an option ahead of Gumby, Neagle and LLoyd who will have greater longevity thatn Lucas and even he may not see 2012.

Scotty is not the type of player who can play till he is 34

Everyone knows that he has got absolutly no speed to his game at all.

Usually the only characteristic aging players loose is their speed... Scotty's already lost his [or never had it in the first place] and I reaken he'll be able to produce brilliance for years to come.

Your question was "how long will Scott Lucas be in our best 22?". He'll be in our best 22 till he retires...

[Mr Mosquito]

is he integral to our next premiership?

[The_Young_Gun]

is he integral to our next premiership?

Predict the future and I'll answer for you.

[kelvin_sheedy]

I'm one that thinks he might slow down pretty quickly and the game might pass him.

Not out of the realm of possibility that by the end of next year that a fit Gumbleton or a fitter Neagle might be better options.

Personally I don't think we can go into 2010 with two 30+ years olds up forward.

[bomberstomake8]

I'm one that thinks he might slow down pretty quickly and the game might pass him.

Not out of the realm of possibility that by the end of next year that a fit Gumbleton or a fitter Neagle might be better options.

Personally I don't think we can go into 2010 with two 30+ years olds up forward.

age is irrelevant. performance is the only thing that matter. Lloyd and lucas will be great forwards to have until they retire.. people on here have the shortest memories, can anyone still remember 2007? do you not remember his 61 goals playing largely as a CHF? even this year when he had pretty much 0 fitness and was injured even when he was playing he still averaged 2 goals a game.

Lucas has been very durable his whole career. even more so then lloyd, gumbelton and neagle have had pretty much as many injuries already as lucas has over his whole career.

he will be here until he retires, imo that will be at the end of 2010 because he will probably feel he will be holding back the younger players at the club.

i also think that lucas will never play in the backline again, he simply doesnt have the speed to match it with forwards anymore. even the bigger forwards like brown would beat him on the lead. he will be played in the forward half probably as our FF imo. lloyd as CHF, gumby will be switching positions all year and neagle will be in the forward pocket. People are so concerned about our forward structure but the fact is i dont think we will have all four of neagle gumby lloyd and lucas available for more then 4 or 5 games. although i bloody hope we do.

[efcboy]

at this stage i'd say even though he is ageing scotty lucas has better aerobic fitness than neagle. neagle improved this year but he still has a long way to go fitness wise before i'd be pencilling him in as best 22.

[Spikey]

is he integral to our next premiership?


I hate that type of sentence so much. Our next permiership might not be for 57 years....

[Mr Mosquito]

[quote=kelvin_sheedy;12490290]I'm one that thinks he might slow down pretty quickly and the game might pass him.



Personally I don't think we can go into 2010 with two 30+ years olds up forward.

age is irrelevant. performance is the only thing that matter. Lloyd and lucas will be great forwards to have until they retire.. quote]

An all time bone-headed comment.....loyalty is just stupid if players are not longer doing the job...we will not win a flag with lucas and lloyd bein out key forwards...both MAY play minor roles but the heavy lifiting will be done by the group of youngster coming through

[bomberstomake8]

[quote=kelvin_sheedy;12490290]I'm one that thinks he might slow down pretty quickly and the game might pass him.



Personally I don't think we can go into 2010 with two 30+ years olds up forward.

age is irrelevant. performance is the only thing that matter. Lloyd and lucas will be great forwards to have until they retire.. quote]

An all time bone-headed comment.....loyalty is just stupid if players are not longer doing the job...we will not win a flag with lucas and lloyd bein out key forwards...both MAY play minor roles but the heavy lifiting will be done by the group of youngster coming through

pft i think the bone headed comment is coming from you. so if a player is still one of the best forwards in the game we should just boot him out? why wouldnt they play large roles in us winning a flag?

we would be doing very well if neagle ever produced the kind of footy lloyd played this year, or we would be doing well if gumbelton ever produces the footy lucas displayed last year.

if we will win a flag in the next 5 years it will be because of the role lucas and lloyd play. particularly lloyd.

i never said anything about being loyal so i dont see where you got that frmo, all i said is why would he not be in our best 22 when he is performing? lucas is probably our most influential player in the side and will be close to it for at least another couple of years. i never mentioned loyalty maybe you cant read? all i mentioned was if a player is performing and doing what is expected of him why should he not be in the side? because he is what 30 years old?

[The Great Barry Besanko]

Richo is 33 and probably just had his best season. I know he's a different type of player but I can't see any reason (other than injuries) why Lucas can't play good footy for 3 more seasons. Far from finished in my book.

[Mr Mosquito]

neither of them will be playing in 5 years....

[Sigmund]

Everyone knows that he has got absolutly no speed to his game at all.

Usually the only characteristic aging players loose is their speed... Scotty's already lost his [or never had it in the first place] and I reaken he'll be able to produce brilliance for years to come.

Your question was "how long will Scott Lucas be in our best 22?". He'll be in our best 22 till he retires...


Don't often agree with you young man --- but spot on here.

[Mr Mosquito]

Everyone knows that he has got absolutly no speed to his game at all.

Usually the only characteristic aging players loose is their speed... Scotty's already lost his [or never had it in the first place] and I reaken he'll be able to produce brilliance for years to come.

Your question was "how long will Scott Lucas be in our best 22?". He'll be in our best 22 till he retires...

Woulda thought the same about scott west too.......:rolleyes:

[bomberstomake8]

neither of them will be playing in 5 years....

pft fevola might not be playing in five years does that mean the blues should dump him?

bradshaw is almost 30, he should also be dumped

richardson shouldnt be playing anymore under your logic.

west, harvey . this years favourite for the brownlow brent harvey is almost 31 he should be dumped..

seriously some peoples emphasise on youth is making them look incredibly stupid

[Darealrath]

Injury permitting, a couple more seasons at least. With Lloyd missing games the last few seasons he's shown how dangerous he is playing from the goal square and I suspect he'll spend more time in the F50 than outside in the last 3 or so season of his career.

Lloyd moving up the ground will allow this.

[Bomber4eva]

pft fevola might not be playing in five years does that mean the blues should dump him?

bradshaw is almost 30, he should also be dumped

richardson shouldnt be playing anymore under your logic.

west, harvey . this years favourite for the brownlow brent harvey is almost 31 he should be dumped..

seriously some peoples emphasise on youth is making them look incredibly stupid

Maybe we should also get rid of mcveigh and welsh cos i think they're getting old too!?:thumbsd:

dont waste your breath..Mr Mosquito obviously has no idea :confused:

Lucas and Lloyd are both proven champions of the club who will continue to hold there spots for a little while yet. Gumbleton and Neagle have proved very little in comparison.

I hope we do find ourselves in a position where we have too many tall forward options but at the moment it's really not a concern.

[Enki]

He will be in our best 22 until his form dictates he is no longer.

[The Donners]

Quite easy to say that when the bloke has missed pretty much the whole year and has realised that one year contracts are now the go. I`ve defended Scott Lucas since he came to the club and people still seem to love to chip away at him, high amusement in my book.

Why is that? He's virtually been a gun since day dot yet early days was the butt of everyone's jokes, he developed slightly quicker than Lloyd then obviously Lloyd took over, up until this year Lucas had taken the mantle back for whatever reasons.

Controversially, Lucas could've been traded last year and we could've got whatever we wanted for him at 30 years of age, that's how good he is!

[Blowfly]

Woulda thought the same about scott west too.......:rolleyes:

If he wasn't injured he probably would be.

[Phat Toni]

no need to be loyal just for the sake of it buddy. I love lucas as a player too but he is on the decline. He is still capable of playing good footy and think that he will probably be our 2nd or 3rd option forward next year.

u are saying that in 2012 that we will want him to be an option ahead of Gumby, Neagle and LLoyd who will have greater longevity thatn Lucas and even he may not see 2012.

Scotty is not the type of player who can play till he is 34

Two things here.

One;
2005 = 51 Goals
2006 = 67 Goals
2007 = 61 Goals
2008 = KEEN INJURY

Yeah defiantly on the decline:eek: How short are some of our memories? In the preseason this year I think he played every game and looked fantastic!! He kicked 4 or 5 in a little over half the game time in one of the earlier games. He was just unlucky he cannoned into (i think it was) Josh Gibson in round one which put a line through his year.

Second Point:
I agree he wont be an effective player heading into his 34th year like say a Richo, Scotty just dosent have the body type for that. But that still means he has at least two more great years in front of him.

[HBF]

Isn't he only 30? :confused:
Would have thought he'd still be your best option at CHF for at least next year, dependant on form and injuries.

[cAsEy_18]

He's the type of bloke i agree whos form will drop dramatically quickly. Very good decision by Essendon to only give him a one year contract. I know he was coming off a knee injury, but he wasn't the same player when he came back. I let him off the first 3-4 weeks because i thought "well he might not be fully match fit yet" but when he is still barely moving 8 weeks later i'm thinking the signs don't look good. Start Lucas and Lloyd next year, but i'd be pretty happy, baring that they have shown enough to hold the role, that Neagle at FF and Lloyd/Gumbleton swapping CHF/leading up the ground will be our forward line come the end of next year/start of 2010.

[Mr Mosquito]

He's the type of bloke i agree whos form will drop dramatically quickly. Very good decision by Essendon to only give him a one year contract. I know he was coming off a knee injury, but he wasn't the same player when he came back. I let him off the first 3-4 weeks because i thought "well he might not be fully match fit yet" but when he is still barely moving 8 weeks later i'm thinking the signs don't look good. Start Lucas and Lloyd next year, but i'd be pretty happy, baring that they have shown enough to hold the role, that Neagle at FF and Lloyd/Gumbleton swapping CHF/leading up the ground will be our forward line come the end of next year/start of 2010.

Exactly the point i was trying to make....in my opinion the 2 young guys will develop enough next year that come 2010 our forward line may no the room for 2 30+ key position players.

I was never attacking his age btw...purely just stating that scotty wil not be the type of player who is dominent well into his 30's.

[SirJimi05]

Woulda thought the same about scott west too.......:rolleyes:


You are mistaking injuries with skill. West is a walk up start for the Bullies barring injury.

You have done the same thing re Lucas by stating that he is on the decline.

He busted his knee in the first game of the season so he is on the decline?

Before he did his knee he was in career best form.

I haven't got a crystal ball but unless his form tapers considerably I can't see Lucas being pushed out of the best 22 before he retires.

[SirJimi05]

He's the type of bloke i agree whos form will drop dramatically quickly. Very good decision by Essendon to only give him a one year contract.


Why is that? :rolleyes:

[FandangoDingo]

Why is that? He's virtually been a gun since day dot yet early days was the butt of everyone's jokes, he developed slightly quicker than Lloyd then obviously Lloyd took over, up until this year Lucas had taken the mantle back for whatever reasons.

Controversially, Lucas could've been traded last year and we could've got whatever we wanted for him at 30 years of age, that's how good he is!

Was that a missed opportunity for the Club AND for Lucas???? He could be lining up for the Bulldogs this weekend, playing in another Prelim Final and getting another crack at another premiership after getting the club he loves (and that still loves him) a great draft pick and/or a young star.

Not a particularly romantic idea, but probably one which could have greatly benefited to the club, IMO.

You couldn't get "whatever you wanted" for him now.

[Pevers-Legend]

Was that a missed opportunity for the Club AND for Lucas???? He could be lining up for the Bulldogs this weekend, playing in another Prelim Final and getting another crack at another premiership after getting the club he loves (and that still loves him) a great draft pick and/or a young star.

Not a particularly romantic idea, but probably one which could have greatly benefited to the club, IMO.

You couldn't get "whatever you wanted" for him now.

Whos says we could've got what we wnated for him - and who says a decent draft pick is a better result than having someone who will go down as one of our best CHF's ever around the club? He is a leader and was our best player while Lloyd was in the wilderness.

Do you really think selling your best players once they hit 30 is the key to success?

NOTE: Franklin was achieved by Hawthorn tanking and being schite - nothing to do with player swaps.

[Pevers-Legend]

Also, can someone please tell me how Gumbleton or Neagle will walk past Lucas as a better option? Both are injury prone and have only shown they have potential.

Are we giving out spots in our 22 based on age these days?

[Daytripper]

Like Shannon Grant, the EFC will never allow a guy of the calibre of Lucas to ever play at Bendigo.

And nor should he.

PS : he still has about 25 lengths on Gumbleton and Neagle.

[Sigmund]

Whos says we could've got what we wnated for him - and who says a decent draft pick is a better result than having someone who will go down as one of our best CHF's ever around the club? He is a leader and was our best player while Lloyd was in the wilderness.

Do you really think selling your best players once they hit 30 is the key to success?

NOTE: Franklin was achieved by Hawthorn tanking and being schite - nothing to do with player swaps.


Top post Pevers:thumbsu: Summarised all of my thoughts

[Sigmund]

Further to Pevers post -- What happens to the moral fibre of the footy club when you start trading away the very fabric of the club? All these people stating we should have traded him are falling into the trap that so many are these days --> "everything is disposable"-- well it aint!

[daffo]

Lucas has a spot in our best 22 for at least the next two years.

[Pevers-Legend]

Further to Pevers post -- What happens to the moral fibre of the footy club when you start trading away the very fabric of the club? All these people stating we should have traded him are falling into the trap that so many are these days --> "everything is disposable"-- well it aint!

Sigmund - to illustrate your Point - how well did we do after we traded Hardwick, then the firesale the following year?

Wouldn't exactly say the club was full of beans and happy. Does anyone remember Hirds speech at the B&F where he said as much about the deparutures and the vibe of the club as a result.

[The Donners]

Was that a missed opportunity for the Club AND for Lucas???? He could be lining up for the Bulldogs this weekend, playing in another Prelim Final and getting another crack at another premiership after getting the club he loves (and that still loves him) a great draft pick and/or a young star.

Not a particularly romantic idea, but probably one which could have greatly benefited to the club, IMO.

You couldn't get "whatever you wanted" for him now.

No doubt.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Why is that? :rolleyes:

Not quick, not a great contested mark and very one sided.

[The Donners]

Further to Pevers post -- What happens to the moral fibre of the footy club when you start trading away the very fabric of the club? All these people stating we should have traded him are falling into the trap that so many are these days --> "everything is disposable"-- well it aint!

What happens to the moral fibre?!?!? Perhaps we should stop overdramatising. Players and officials come and go, the club remains.

FDD made an interesting point, perhaps it wasn't shared by the populous but that doesn't make it wrong.

Welcome to the 21st century, everything in football is disposable, a player has a lifespan just as an executive of a multi-national company. Lucas would be one of the highest paid players at the club, if he's not providing a solid output in the future yet remains on the list that hurts the club... the club is far greater than the individual.

If you want your club to move forward you sometimes have to make tough decisions, that's what I think FDD was trying to say. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant, he makes a compelling point- like it or lump it!

[The Donners]

Not quick, not a great contested mark and very one sided.

Harsh but true.

[FandangoDingo]

Whos says we could've got what we wnated for him.

Err... Donners said it. I bolded it in the quote to which I responded.

Do you really think selling your best players once they hit 30 is the key to success?

Given the Club's current situation, I believe we would have been in a much better position in 4-5 years time if we'd traded Lucas while he still had big currency (end of '07).

I wasn't making sweeping generalisations. It was a specific reference to one particular player at one particular point in time.

I certainly don't think the key to success is allowing sentimentality to overrule good football/business decisions or to consider any one individual as more important than the club.

Further to Pevers post -- What happens to the moral fibre of the footy club when you start trading away the very fabric of the club? All these people stating we should have traded him are falling into the trap that so many are these days --> "everything is disposable"-- well it aint!

Lucas will always be an Essendon champion. He could play 3-4 years at another club, but he'd still call Essendon home after he's retired. We would have lost his services for a few years while we're rebuilding... Nothing more or less. You could look at it as a player making one final, magnificent sacrifice for the club he loves (and the club that still loves him).

It makes sense if you cut out the emotional hysterics. ;)

[The Donners]

Err... Donners said it. I think you aren't comfortable that we agree! :D

I believe the Bulldogs didn't renew a contract of one of their greatest living players, Doug Hawkins, certainly didn't tear the moral fibre apart of the club. In fact, I believe the Bulldogs are possibly in their best financial position for quite some time... add on top of that their first prelim final in 10 years.

[Pevers-Legend]

Err... Donners said it. I bolded it in the quote to which I responded.
Rubbish - that is pure specualtion. And as I said - hwta guarnatee do you have that a draft pick across their entire career will be better than 3-4 years of Lucas?


Given the Club's current situation, I believe we would have been in a much better position in 4-5 years time if we'd traded Lucas while he still had big currency (end of '07).

I wasn't making sweeping generalisations. It was a specific reference to one particular player at one particular point in time.
So trading senior players is smart when you have unproven young talls? Lucas and Lloyd had already done more than these two comparitively. Putting blind faith in youth guarntees you only one thing - time at the bottom and if they turn out to be no good - it's a long time at the bottom.

I certainly don't think the key to success is allowing sentimentality to overrule good football/business decisions or to consider any one individual as more important than the club.
So McVeigh's speeches mean nothing? Also never said Lucas was bigger than the club. But please do tell me - how many clubs trade their best player just to get some draft picks? Tell me one occasion where the club has said - you are one of our best players on the list - therefore we want to trade you for our future?


Lucas will always be an Essendon champion. He could play 3-4 years at another club, but he'd still call Essendon home after he's retired. We would have lost his services for a few years while we're rebuilding... Nothing more or less. You could look at it as a player making one final, magnificent sacrifice for the club he loves (and the club that still loves him).

It makes sense if you cut out the emotional hysterics. ;)

Interesting way to put it. Why is there a need for sacrifice? Why? Becasue Hawthorn traded some average footballers with decent currency?

[Daytripper]

So trading senior players is smart when you have unproven young talls? Lucas and Lloyd had already done more than these two comparitively. Putting blind faith in youth guarntees you only one thing - time at the bottom and if they turn out to be no good - it's a long time at the bottom.

So McVeigh's speeches mean nothing? Also never said Lucas was bigger than the club. But please do tell me - how many clubs trade their best player just to get some draft picks? Tell me one occasion where the club has said - you are one of our best players on the list - therefore we want to trade you for our future?

Well said Pevers.
I would like to know the other clubs that traded one of their champions for draft picks too.

Imagine trading Lucas two years ago for pick 6 and picking up a Beau Dowler or Kepler Bradley :eek::eek::eek:

When will people learn that draft picks generally equate to nothing but a handy, average player.

[The Donners]

How many clubs trade their best player just to get some draft picks? Tell me one occasion where the club has said - you are one of our best players on the list - therefore we want to trade you for our future? Because Hawthorn traded some average footballers with decent currency?

Average footballers? Jonathon Hay was AA in 2001, Nathan Thompson won Hawthorn's leading goalkicker in 2003 and was placed third in the best & fairest in 2001 of a team that missed out on the GF by a goal.

Perhaps they were trading knowing full well they had depression... that makes Hawthorn a pretty pathetic club... they're playing in a preliminary final this weekend. We haven't played a preliminary final since we beat them in 2001, who's done better since then??? :rolleyes:

[bomberstomake8]

wheres is all this rubbish coming from that lucas is on the decline?

i read someone saying he is not overly fast, isnt a great contested mark and is one sided. all very true but he has been like that is whole career yet he has had a more successful career then 98% of the players in the competition. why is that?

fact is he still is in career best form. he offers ten times more around the club then both neagle and gumbelton combined and imo will continue to be awesome until he wants to retire. he is an excellent reader of the play, knows when to use his body and is one of the best shots for goal in the comp.

people seem to think because he didnt have a huge impact this year that he is on the decline, dont forget he came back from a serious knee injury a month earlier then predicted, he hadnt done much training at all and was very down on fitness. yet he still averaged 2 goals a game playing alongside lloyd and neagle, not to mention the fact that this year our midfeild kicked more goals then ever due to the style of football we play

[Sigmund]

What happens to the moral fibre?!?!? Perhaps we should stop overdramatising. Players and officials come and go, the club remains.

FDD made an interesting point, perhaps it wasn't shared by the populous but that doesn't make it wrong.

Welcome to the 21st century, everything in football is disposable, a player has a lifespan just as an executive of a multi-national company. Lucas would be one of the highest paid players at the club, if he's not providing a solid output in the future yet remains on the list that hurts the club... the club is far greater than the individual.

If you want your club to move forward you sometimes have to make tough decisions, that's what I think FDD was trying to say. Whether I agree or not is irrelevant, he makes a compelling point- like it or lump it!


Donners -- welcome your reply.

However, I would argue that my statement was not overdramatic. I am merely pointing out that football clubs are about the people within them. Does not matter if it is AFL or Keilor Reserves. Anyone who has played or been involved with a club would have experienced this.

Of course the club is greater than the individual, and of course players come and go. But some players are closer to the heart of a footy club than others and that is a fact. Scott Lucas is such a player.

You say players come and go but the club remains. But the players are the one's who make the club, they make the history - the famous wins, the famous goals, the brave acts. Scotty has been involved with many of these, and will be remembered for it.

As a final point, what message does it send to a bloke like David Myers if we trade Scott Lucas? Something like this-

"Scotty, you have been just great for our club for a number of years now and we all love ya BUT, UM, YEAH NAH--"you are getting a little older aren't you? Look mate, we just need to trade you in for a draft pick.. We are not sure if it will come off, but because you are over 30, well.. it is a chance we will have to take.... While you are at it Scotty, here is a brush so you can scrape your name and number off your locker as well.... we need to make some room for that unproven kid... Oh, and before you leave, make sure you say goodbye to David, Tayte, Gumby, and Jay... Look.. we are pretty sure that they are going to miss you... Anyway Scotty, I am off to buy my new 90 Inch Plasma... Need to upgrade from the 50 Inch.. Just not big enough you know.....

[The Donners]

wheres is all this rubbish coming from that lucas is on the decline?

i read someone saying he is not overly fast, isnt a great contested mark and is one sided. all very true but he has been like that is whole career yet he has had a more successful career then 98% of the players in the competition. why is that?

fact is he still is in career best form. he offers ten times more around the club then both neagle and gumbelton combined and imo will continue to be awesome until he wants to retire. he is an excellent reader of the play, knows when to use his body and is one of the best shots for goal in the comp.

people seem to think because he didnt have a huge impact this year that he is on the decline, dont forget he came back from a serious knee injury a month earlier then predicted, he hadnt done much training at all and was very down on fitness. yet he still averaged 2 goals a game playing alongside lloyd and neagle, not to mention the fact that this year our midfeild kicked more goals then ever due to the style of football we play

I agree with this too.

[rusman]

I see the value in trading Lucas for draftees crossed my mind a few times in recent years, would’ve loved to pick up a top 5 pick in last 2 years drafts for him and probs a bit more however the teams we would have traded with (doggies mainly) didn’t have those picks. Lucas is a proven forward and back although i think it is very unlikely for gumby neagle and co to take his spot. However we can only hope that one or 2 of them step up that much to push him out. in this case he can move down back to his all Australian spot at CHB. People question his pace but I think he can do a better job on most forwards in the competition then any of our other defenders. In recent years I would say Lucas has been a lot better then Lloyd and ppl tend to be forgetting that due to him missing most of this year and next season will be biting there lip when he kicks his first bag of 7 round 1 :P
In short Lucas will be in our best 22 until he retires wether its in 2 years or 3+

P.s: Gumby missed a whole year of development this year so wont be pushing out lucas' spot in the next year and neagle has shown tallent but wont push out lucas until he retires

[The Donners]

Donners -- welcome your reply.

However, I would argue that my statement was not overdramatic. I am merely pointing out that football clubs are about the people within them. Does not matter if it is AFL or Keilor Reserves. Anyone who has played or been involved with a club would have experienced this.

Of course the club is greater than the individual, and of course players come and go. But some players are closer to the heart of a footy club than others and that is a fact. Scott Lucas is such a player.

You say players come and go but the club remains. But the players are the one's who make the club, they make the history - the famous wins, the famous goals, the brave acts. Scotty has been involved with many of these, and will be remembered for it.

As a final point, what message does it send to a bloke like David Myers if we trade Scott Lucas? Something like this-

"Scotty, you have been just great for our club for a number of years now and we all love ya BUT, UM, YEAH NAH--"you are getting a little older aren't you? Look mate, we just need to trade you in for a draft pick.. We are not sure if it will come off, but because you are over 30, well.. it is a chance we will have to take.... While you are at it Scotty, here is a brush so you can scrape your name and number off your locker as well.... we need to make some room for that unproven kid... Oh, and before you leave, make sure you say goodbye to David, Tayte, Gumby, and Jay... Look.. we are pretty sure that they are going to miss you... Anyway Scotty, I am off to buy my new 90 Inch Plasma... Need to upgrade from the 50 Inch.. Just not big enough you know.....

Yeah, I fully understand where you are coming from, but it's not a suburban league anymore, it's a multi-billion dollar industry... you can't have so much money in a sport and keep the loyalty, would be nice but it's not human nature.

As for how to say to a player that their services are no longer required or that the club is moving in a different direction, I think Knights' treatment of such scenarios is quite good, so long as "... you are honest and up front with the player".

I'm happy with the 50" Plasma......

[Sigmund]

Yeah, I fully understand where you are coming from, but it's not a suburban league anymore, it's a multi-billion dollar industry... you can't have so much money in a sport and keep the loyalty, would be nice but it's not human nature.

As for how to say to a player that their services are no longer required or that the club is moving in a different direction, I think Knights' treatment of such scenarios is quite good, so long as "... you are honest and up front with the player".

I'm happy with the 50" Plasma......



:thumbsu::thumbsu::thumbsu::)

[Mudflap]

Whenever he finishes thats up to himself and the club, cannot control ageing but certainly will not be forced.

As for his value in 09, he's extremly important. Contrary to what some have been saying i believe Lucas is our best stationary contested mark within the 0-30m arc and rarely do you see him out marked body to body. Jetta was playing his best football this season when he was crumbing off Lucas. Neagle will play the fatside lead from the goal line, Lucas will start top left of the square10-20 out, leaving Lloyd and Gumbleton/Mcphee to push high. Monfries defensive forward, Davey/Jetta through the pocket, midfield, bench rotation.

[LeeARM]

I hate that type of sentence so much. Our next permiership might not be for 57 years....

we aren't st kilda

[SirJimi05]

Yeah, I fully understand where you are coming from, but it's not a suburban league anymore, it's a multi-billion dollar industry... you can't have so much money in a sport and keep the loyalty, would be nice but it's not human nature.

As for how to say to a player that their services are no longer required or that the club is moving in a different direction, I think Knights' treatment of such scenarios is quite good, so long as "... you are honest and up front with the player".

I'm happy with the 50" Plasma......


We don't know this because it hasn't happened and is extremely unlikely to happen.

You can't compare guys like Pev and JJ to an absolute champion of the Essendon FC such as Lucas.

It is simply not going to happen and Knights has made this clear on more than one occasion.

I can't beleive people are still talking about this.

[The Donners]

We don't know this because it hasn't happened and is extremely unlikely to happen.

You can't compare guys like Pev and JJ to an absolute champion of the Essendon FC such as Lucas.

It is simply not going to happen and Knights has made this clear on more than one occasion.

I can't beleive people are still talking about this.

MJ was a champion of the club, B&F winner, premiership player. JJ was a champion of the club, a dual B&F winner, premiership player and AA.

[SirJimi05]

MJ was a champion of the club, B&F winner, premiership player. JJ was a champion of the club, a dual B&F winner, premiership player and AA.


Both were loyal servants but hardly champions.

Lucas, Hird, Fletcher, Lloyd all Champions.

If any of these players were traded i would tear up my Essendon membership(s) forever and a day.

[The Donners]

Both were loyal servants but hardly champions.

Lucas, Hird, Fletcher, Lloyd all Champions.

If any of these players were traded i would tear up my Essendon membership forever and a day.

Where does your loyalty lie? Club or players? Mine is with the club that I've barracked for and supported long before Lucas, Hird, Fletcher and Lloyd were on the seen! ;)

[SirJimi05]

Where does your loyalty lie? Club or players? Mine is with the club that I've barracked for and supported long before Lucas, Hird, Fletcher and Lloyd were on the seen! ;)


Your's lie with the club but you would be happy for the whole club's culture to be turned on it's head in order to obtain a draft pick that may never play an AFL game?

Knights summed it up beautifully when he said the guy's like Scotty Lucas make up the fabric of the Essendon FC and there is no way he would consider trading him.

And make no mistake, Knights was thinking of the FC's best interests when he said this.

[Tippaz]

Lucas 09 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gumbleton 09

:mad:

[The_Young_Gun]

Since when did everyone get the sixth sense to predict the future...

Far Out!

[The Donners]

Your's lie with the club but you would be happy for the whole club's culture to be turned on it's head in order to obtain a draft pick that may never play an AFL game?

Knights summed it up beautifully when he said the guy's like Scotty Lucas make up the fabric of the Essendon FC and there is no way he would consider trading him.

And make no mistake, Knights was thinking of the FC's best interests when he said this.

The whole club's culture is so fragile that one player being traded would turn it on its head, 140 years of the Essendon Football Club will be turned on its head... we traded Hardwicke, we picked up Welsh and so on and so forth.

[windyhill]

we traded Hardwicke, we picked up Welsh and so on and so forth.

Don`t mention the salary cap squeeze. Trade Scott Lucas, trade your soul.

[Ben the Gooner]

One thought from left of field with regards to trading Lucas.

As I understand it, we are struggling to reach the AFL's minimum salary requirements as it is, due to the immense number of kids. If Lucas were to leave, not only would the part of his salary which is under the cap disappear, more of Lloyd's and Fletcher's would go to the veteran's list, meaning we'd struggle even more.

Having said all of that, I'd like to think that we can build a premiership list without trading away our soul and players like Scott Lucas. We are Essendon, we aren't ****ing Hawthorn trading away our best players.

We are better than that.

[Tippaz]

if we trade Lucas, we may as well trade out Fletcher & Lloyd.

they are our champions and i'm frustrated that we didn't draft/recruit for another tilt at a premiership with those players.

by the time our list comes good, those 3 will be retired and we'll have to wait some more years for the list to reach its true zenith. that's probably 5+ years away at least. i'm not happy about this! :mad:

[loopy_cam]

if we trade Lucas, we may as well trade out Fletcher & Lloyd.

they are our champions and i'm frustrated that we didn't draft/recruit for another tilt at a premiership with those players.

by the time our list comes good, those 3 will be retired and we'll have to wait some more years for the list to reach its true zenith. that's probably 5+ years away at least. i'm not happy about this! :mad:

Do you really think that if we had Selwood and Palmer we'd be in line for a premiership? :rolleyes:

[OzBomber]

For a long time yet.

We need him to free up Lloyd. With out him, Lloyd has 2-3 players double or triple teaing him.

[Tippaz]

Do you really think that if we had Selwood and Palmer we'd be in line for a premiership? :rolleyes:

not sure about that,

but Geelong would be a lot weaker without Selwood. :thumbsu:

and who knows, maybe Hird would have played 1 more year. :D

[The Donners]

Don`t mention the salary cap squeeze. Trade Scott Lucas, trade your soul.

Ok I won't mention it, how about I mention the fact that not all players were willing to take a pay-cut and keep the "culture" from turning on its head?

[FandangoDingo]

Rubbish - that is pure specualtion. And as I said - hwta guarnatee do you have that a draft pick across their entire career will be better than 3-4 years of Lucas?

What guarantee do you have that Lucas will play a dozen or more games? There's no guarantees in football or life, but if we are not planning to rebuild through drafting and developing our younger players, then what IS the plan?? I don't see drafting and trading as a panacea, but it's a solid plan. Securing some additional high draft picks in the final couple of uncompromised drafts would put us in a much better position to execute that plan.

Whether we make the right picks and trades or not is another matter but you can't argue that it doesn't give us a better crack at it! I'm prepared to back our recruiters. They seem to be right back on track!

So trading senior players is smart when you have unproven young talls? Lucas and Lloyd had already done more than these two comparitively. Putting blind faith in youth guarntees you only one thing - time at the bottom and if they turn out to be no good - it's a long time at the bottom.

As I pointed out, I was referring to a specific player and a specific point in time. You're entitled to disagree, but please stop twisting my statement into sweeping generalisations.

It's hardly putting blind faith in youth. We've hand-picked these guys with the expectation that they're going to step up and become solid contributors. We're developing them. No matter who else we retain on our list, if the majority of these young guys don't step up, we're in for more bleak years!

Lucas is a great footballer. That's why he had currency. You have to give something up if you want something of value in return. We're a long way off the pace. 2010 would be the most optimistic prediction for our next top 4 finish. But from 2111/12 - 2020+, I expect us to be a powerhouse again. Lucas isn't going to play any significant role for the team in that period.

If our club was at a different ebb, I wouldn't dream of trading Lucas. We'd probably still have a few other players on our list too... But we're at where we're at because of previous poor decisions and perhaps a tendency to cling on a little too long. With slim-pickings from drafts after this year, i suggested that it may have been a lost opportunity that haunts us down the track.

[SirJimi05]

The whole club's culture is so fragile that one player being traded would turn it on its head, 140 years of the Essendon Football Club will be turned on its head... we traded Hardwicke, we picked up Welsh and so on and so forth.


For about the third time you have missed the point.

Hardwick was not a champion.

I understand clubs have to function and evolve, as a result of this certain players must be moved but you do not trade the absolute champions of your fc.

Knight's has made it very very clear that it will not happen so i don't know why I am even discussing it with you.

[Smyth94]

not sure about that,

but Geelong would be a lot weaker without Selwood. :thumbsu:

and who knows, maybe Hird would have played 1 more year. :D

No they wouldn't...they would be weaker yes, but no where near what you make them out to be.

Tell me now...if we didn't draft Gumbleton, who would be our CHF once Lucas retires? McPhee? NLM? Hopefully that gives you an idea as to why he was chosen above a midfielder.

[Smyth94]

Lucas 09 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gumbleton 09

:mad:

A third year player who's played 5 games versus a 10 year + veteran and club champion...

Its a bit obvious don't ya think?

[SirJimi05]

What guarantee do you have that Lucas will play a dozen or more games? There's no guarantees in football or life, but if we are not planning to rebuild through drafting and developing our younger players, then what IS the plan?? I don't see drafting and trading as a panacea, but it's a solid plan. Securing some additional high draft picks in the final couple of uncompromised drafts would put us in a much better position to execute that plan.

Whether we make the right picks and trades or not is another matter but you can't argue that it doesn't give us a better crack at it! I'm prepared to back our recruiters. They seem to be right back on track!



As I pointed out, I was referring to a specific player and a specific point in time. You're entitled to disagree, but please stop twisting my statement into sweeping generalisations.

It's hardly putting blind faith in youth. We've hand-picked these guys with the expectation that they're going to step up and become solid contributors. We're developing them. No matter who else we retain on our list, if the majority of these young guys don't step up, we're in for more bleak years!

Lucas is a great footballer. That's why he had currency. You have to give something up if you want something of value in return. We're a long way off the pace. 2010 would be the most optimistic prediction for our next top 4 finish. But from 2111/12 - 2020+, I expect us to be a powerhouse again. Lucas isn't going to play any significant role for the team in that period.

If our club was at a different ebb, I wouldn't dream of trading Lucas. We'd probably still have a few other players on our list too... But we're at where we're at because of previous poor decisions and perhaps a tendency to cling on a little too long. With slim-pickings from drafts after this year, i suggested that it may have been a lost opportunity that haunts us down the track.


Are you prepared to back our senior coach?

[spike mcveigh]

Scotty Lucas has about 2-3 years left in him. He will be in the squad of 22 still for a while.

[monfries_monster]

I think it is silly to suggest that a guy like Scott Lucas is to be traded, first of all he is a champion of the club, premiership player, and when he is in the side we have a greater chance of winning, thats what he adds. Secondly what will we get for a 30 year old? Definately nothing that will be worth trading him for, and what he is going to bring in terms of development of Gumby and also experience in our best 22.

My only concern is that with Lucas and Lloyd in the forward line where is Gumbleton and Neagle going to play in the setup? I think typically Neagle and Lloyd will be in and out of FF whilst Lucas and Lloyd in and out of Centre Half Foward. Where does this leave Gumbleton? I trust Knights to have a few ideas about this, but I am concerned that if he does not get a large go at CHF next season it will dent his development even more that his injuries have, although he can play on the wing, he will be our future CHF for the next ten years. This guy is immensly talented and can have a major impact on the AFL, no.2 draft pick from a draft that has already bought players like Bryce Gibbs, Selwood, Leleulengburger etc and the best draft in many years. If things go well we will have a CHF that we can compare to the best in the game, I know this is going a bit far for a guy that has played only 5 games, but he is highly thought off and if anyone is going to be important to our next flag it is Gumbie.

I dont want to see Lucas being phased out, but we need to give this kid every chance, even if it does mean phasing lucas out over the next few season. I think you will see Knights do this, he rates Gumby very high. It will be interesting, yet exciting to see what happens.

[boms5]

I don't think Lucas will go soon he has still got a few good years in him. This year wasn't his best but he was injured for some of it. I can see Lloyd however leaving in the next few years, I don't want him to but the game has changed and not to the benifit of matty. The hands in the back law has killed him.

[Enki]

I don't think Lucas will go soon he has still got a few good years in him. This year wasn't his best but he was injured for some of it. I can see Lloyd however leaving in the next few years, I don't want him to but the game has changed and not to the benifit of matty. The hands in the back law has killed him.

That logic doesn't make a lot of sense, Scotty has always been a bigger offender of hands in the back than Lloydy IMO, so if it would affect anyone it would be Lucas. Anyway, Lloyd is still faster than Lucas and has shown this year he can adapt to a role that takes him more up the ground more often than previously.

I honestly don't think hands in the back will affect either Lloyds or Lucas' longevity though.

[The Donners]

For about the third time you have missed the point.

Hardwick was not a champion.

I understand clubs have to function and evolve, as a result of this certain players must be moved but you do not trade the absolute champions of your fc.

Knight's has made it very very clear that it will not happen so i don't know why I am even discussing it with you.

For about the fourth time you have missed the point.

The club is bigger than the individual.

[SirJimi05]

For about the fourth time you have missed the point.

The club is bigger than the individual.


If that is your point that is fine but stop coming up with ridiculous comparisons.

Comparing trading Hardwick to Lucas is absurd to say the least.

Can you please give me some examples of absolute champion players from Essendon who have been used as tade bait in recent history.

Once you list all of these champion players i will acknowledge that you are right.

[essendon2008]

I don't think Lucas will go soon he has still got a few good years in him. This year wasn't his best but he was injured for some of it. I can see Lloyd however leaving in the next few years, I don't want him to but the game has changed and not to the benifit of matty. The hands in the back law has killed him.

How can you say the game has changed and it will affect Lloydy more than Lucas? If anything the other way around. Lucas is slower and the hands in the back rule affects him more than Lloyd. Lloydy has lost a little bit of pace but as we saw this year can push up onto the wings like Richo is doing. Lloyd was extremely valuable for most of this year in an unconventional role for him. I think the role he is playing now can be quite taxing but still see him outlasting Lucas

[Ben the Gooner]

If that is your point that is fine but stop coming up with ridiculous comparisons.

Comparing trading Hardwick to Lucas is absurd to say the least.

Can you please give me some examples of absolute champion players from Essendon who have been used as tade bait in recent history.

Once you list all of these champion players i will acknowledge that you are right.



If you can read this, you're gay

End list.

[The Donners]

If that is your point that is fine but stop coming up with ridiculous comparisons.

Comparing trading Hardwick to Lucas is absurd to say the least.

Can you please give me some examples of absolute champion players from Essendon who have been used as tade bait in recent history.

Once you list all of these champion players i will acknowledge that you are right.

There is a first time for everything.

You aren't willing to make tough decisions whereas I am for the betterment of the club as a whole. You have to hurt a little to gain a lot.

[kelvin_sheedy]

I was gutted when Hardwick got traded. I reckon if Lucas was traded at the same time there would have been less angst for me.

Don't forget that Lucas for a period in his career was a little maligned.

As for champion status, well both are champions of the Essendon football club.

Well if we did trade Scotty instead of Hardwick at the time then we might have got the same pick the Hawks got for Croad and we would of had a shot at Hodge, Ball or Judd :eek:

[SirJimi05]

I was gutted when Hardwick got traded. I reckon if Lucas was traded at the same time there would have been less angst for me.

Don't forget that Lucas for a period in his career was a little maligned.

As for champion status, well both are champions of the Essendon football club.

Well if we did trade Scotty instead of Hardwick at the time then we might have got the same pick the Hawks got for Croad and we would of had a shot at Hodge, Ball or Judd :eek:


Hardwick was my favorite player and i was also gutted when he got traded but let's not start throwing the champion tag around willy nilly.

So far in this thread Mark Johnson, Jason Johnson and Damien Hardwick have all been labelled champions.

It is no wonder Essendon supporters have the worst reputation going around for over rating our players.

Also, it was only the moronic supporters who used to call Lucas a dud. He has been a great player for a hell of a long time.

You have surprised me in this thread, Kelvin. All season i have noticed that you back the more experienced players to the tilt but on this occasion you are going the other way. I find it odd that you would bagged me for calling for Michael to be dropped (which ended up happening) yet Lucas is fair game. :eek:

[The Donners]

Hardwick was my favorite player. Same here.

it was only the moronic supporters who used to call Lucas a dud. He has been a great player for a hell of a long time. I was not one of them.


Isn't it lovely when you can agree on some things? :D:D:D

[Jex]

I'd like to think Scotty has 2 very good years left and third where he'll be handy, but not vital to our success. Lloydy might be in the same boat.

And I agree with those who were/are against trading Scott Lucas. There are certain players who should be 1 club players and Scotty is one of them.

[SirJimi05]

Isn't it lovely when you can agree on some things? :D:D:D


Yes it is! lol

Wanga's used to be my favorite player until he left.

After he left Hardwick became my favorite but then he left. :mad:

[Bombs Away]

Everyone talks about 3 talls being fine in our forward Line but says that it cant function with Neagle, Lucas, Lloyd and Gumbleton. We have not even had a chance to see if it can function with 4 talls as one of them has been unjured (at least - at one stage this season I think they all missed).

Even if we play 3 talls and select all that leaves the other to either have a rest of Lucas to help accross Half Back. Lloyd to help out around the wind where he has been going when we are struggling, Gumbleton to help his development and spend some time accross half back or Neagle to roam Half forward and build up his engine. There are so many possibilities and Mr Mosquito the starter of this thread obviously has a short memory on how great Lucas has been and will continue to be. He has always stood up in big games and is Essendon thru and thru. I feel that he has got 3 great seasons left in him (injury permitting) and hope that he is still there when we are ready to have another crack at it (in about 2010-2012)

[Ben the Gooner]

Yes it is! lol

Wanga's used to be my favorite player until he left.

After he left Hardwick became my favorite but then he left. :mad:

And Solly mine.

[Merv]

Yes it is! lol

Wanga's used to be my favorite player until he left.

After he left Hardwick became my favorite but then he left. :mad:

Could you please make Dyson your favourite player prior to trade period? :D

[SirJimi05]

And Solly mine.


I'm too scared to choose a new fav in case they leave so i just stick with Lloydy and Lucas as my favs because atleast i know they have zero chance of being traded.......Oh wait.....:)

[Ben the Gooner]

I'm too scared to choose a new fav in case they leave so i just stick with Lloydy and Lucas as my favs because atleast i know they have zero chance of being traded.......Oh wait.....:)

#37 on the back now, so that trade wasn't all bad.:D

[SirJimi05]

Could you please make Dyson your favourite player prior to trade period? :D


LOL swervin see above. :)

[SirJimi05]

#37 on the back now, so that trade wasn't all bad.:D


Not bad at all! I'm thinking bout going Houli Douli but i don't want to mozz him. Was chatting to his cousin earlier today and he reckons his op went really well and is raring to have a big pre season.

[The Donners]

Yes it is! lol

Wanga's used to be my favorite player until he left.

After he left Hardwick became my favorite but then he left. :mad:

My lord I think I love you, Wanga was my fave too... so much so I was going to go to his church to meet him, I think it was Syndal Baptist or something!!! Hahahahaha

P.S. I was only a kid!!! :D

[The Donners]

Could you please make Dyson your favourite player prior to trade period? :D

Touche Merv! :D

[kelvin_sheedy]

Hardwick was my favorite player and i was also gutted when he got traded but let's not start throwing the champion tag around willy nilly.

So far in this thread Mark Johnson, Jason Johnson and Damien Hardwick have all been labelled champions.

It is no wonder Essendon supporters have the worst reputation going around for over rating our players.

Also, it was only the moronic supporters who used to call Lucas a dud. He has been a great player for a hell of a long time.

You have surprised me in this thread, Kelvin. All season i have noticed that you back the more experienced players to the tilt but on this occasion you are going the other way. I find it odd that you would bagged me for calling for Michael to be dropped (which ended up happening) yet Lucas is fair game. :eek:

I'm labeling them as champions of the EFC, not champions of the AFL.

For me Lucas doesn't get to champion status of AFL either. The tag gets thrown around too much and it should only be for the very elite.

I back whoever I think is going to benefit the team and club. There's no doubt that a fit and healthy Lucas will make us a better side and help the kids come along.

I think he's on a downward spiral though which might have been somewhat masked by injury this year. The game has changed a bit and his best attributes are starting to get hit by age. I'm not suprised the club only offered him a 1 year deal. They must share the same concern.

I feel the side can't offered to go into 2010 with Lloyd and Lucas up forward. It needs more athleticism.