Not thrilled with AFL ? [Archive]

Dogwatcher

30 Sep 2002, 22:32

Just interested in your thoughts on this scenario guys.
I live in the country and its generally regonised that country footy is dying because of less volunteers with more people devoting their time and readies to AFL clubs and games.
Where I live i know of aat least four couples who travel to Adelaide for every AFL game, but I've never seen them at a local game or even in the footy club for a drink on a thurs night.
I think that's ordinary, particularly as so,me of these people are business people. Their community is falling aside in some respects and they're off in Adelaide swanning it up so thety can say they are members of an AFL club.
hey have no contact with the players, no personal involvement and yet they spend all their money on a competitiion that doesn't need it.

Hollypig

1 Oct 2002, 07:53

Originally posted by Dogwatcher
Just interested in your thoughts on this scenario guys.
I live in the country and its generally regonised that country footy is dying because of less volunteers with more people devoting their time and readies to AFL clubs and games.
Where I live i know of aat least four couples who travel to Adelaide for every AFL game, but I've never seen them at a local game or even in the footy club for a drink on a thurs night.
I think that's ordinary, particularly as so,me of these people are business people. Their community is falling aside in some respects and they're off in Adelaide swanning it up so thety can say they are members of an AFL club.
hey have no contact with the players, no personal involvement and yet they spend all their money on a competitiion that doesn't need it.

Bugger em, boycott their buisnesses until they put in some sponsership to the local club(s). Let them know about it as well.

Port Adelaide 1870

1 Oct 2002, 08:13

Originally posted by Hollypig

Bugger em, boycott their buisnesses until they put in some sponsership to the local club(s). Let them know about it as well.

That is such a simple way to do it in the country..and Ohh.. so effective.. If these people use the community to make their moneyAND the players and officials of these clubs..how simple is it to deny these people some money and let them know why !

PA1870

Port Adelaide 1870

1 Oct 2002, 08:39

Originally posted by Wayde Petersen
Well I put my money where my mouth is, and divert as much money as I can into regional football for my teams Panton Hill, Mernda, Murchison and Tatura, and it would've been better to see a real national competition like what SANFL chief, Max Basheer envisioned. But, all these dreams require corporate support, and they don't want to rock the boat with the AFL, knowing that they're both making a mint.

Max Basheer and the SANFL chiefs that surrounded him from the early 70's were men of great vision and altruism.

They had a vision of a Football code that stood outside of state parochialism and encompassed all the virtues of our great game

they carefully and methodically tried to include the WAFL and the VFL in sharing this vision of a national game...

They soon learnt that the WAFL were simply a bunch of babbling, foolish VFL stooges..

And the VFL EVENTUALLY realised the great benefits of suppressing league football in SA and WA for their own interests..and to re write Australian football history for the Goons in melbourne that follow these clubs to slavishly believe and try and shut us up...simply and only through weight of numbers.

Someone just recently commented on Steve Quartermain's Commentary on Channel 4 in Britian on a Footy show put to air there that stated something along the lines...

" Big time Australian Rules Football has only ever been played in the state of Victoria and with the advent of the AFL , Australian Football is being introduced to the rest of Australia"

Many of the posters on the other boards here believe the propaganda with every essence of their soul, yes they know the SANFL and WAFL were once better than they are now, but their visions are clouded by the overwhelming mire of propoganda they are deep within..

The AFL stole a Vision from the True believers and ran with it for ,their , Victorian Companies and Channnel 7's interests..all in cohoots with each other..

denying great clubs like East Fremantle, South Fremantle, Norwood, Sturt, North Adelaide, West Perth..etc the future of being able to maintain their own dignity, history and prosperity that They had developed over 130 years...
It is this interest devotion and faith in the game that the VFL adeptly stole for its own interests..The former VFL Clubs were NO Bettter than any of these clubs, no greater, no more shrouded in History..Yet now they are AFL clubs and use this to belittle the history of two Great leagues and their clubs..

They in a perverse way have used the new found strength of a Qld club to perpetuate the history of a failed VFL club Fitzroy for their own Grandisement and elevation to another sphere , yet continue to patronise and berate the histories of the WAFL and SANFL..No not even berate...Slowly erasing these histories...Once books contrasted achievements in WAFL, SANFL, VFL always there was which team one the most premierships, highest goalkickers, most games etc....

Youd see records in national books that reflected all three leagues

Yet now..The AFL and all publications connected with it, simply ignore League football outside of Victorian controlled interests...and the History of our great game....

and you wonder why......................................................... .

PA1870

Dogwatcher

1 Oct 2002, 10:13

Great post Pa1870.
Although a Collingwood supporter, Central District winning a flag, any flag in any competition means so much more to me than anything the Magpies could ever do.
The AFL doesn't even hasve any information about football outside its own sphere on the website, not even at grass roots level. United in competition - bull****, I say.

McAlmanac

1 Oct 2002, 10:49

Is the glass half empty or half full?

I take the view that for 50% of the time in the last decade, a Victorian side hasn't won a premiership in that calendar year.

As for quality of sides - Bohdan Jaworskyj would have been teammates with Bronte Mumford at North Adelaide. I wonder if Bronte would have made the team with him at Hawthorn?

Unley Legend

1 Oct 2002, 11:05

Port Adelaide 1870, well said, young man. Remind me, if we ever meet, to buy you a beer! ( Can't believe I'm offering to buy a Port supporter a beer! )

Leaping Lindner

1 Oct 2002, 11:17

Well said PA1870.
I try to do my bit for this 'myth' of these Victorian clubs having a great AFL history as oppossed to a VFL history by reminding their supporters that Essendon,The Roos,West Coast,Adelaide and now Brisbane are the most successful AFL clubs with two flags each.Carlton supporters especially love this one;)

Leaping Lindner

1 Oct 2002, 11:21

Originally posted by McAlmanac
Is the glass half empty or half full?

I take the view that for 50% of the time in the last decade, a Victorian side hasn't won a premiership in that calendar year.

As for quality of sides - Bohdan Jaworskyj would have been teammates with Bronte Mumford at North Adelaide. I wonder if Bronte would have made the team with him at Hawthorn?

Bronte could have mowed Glenferrie Oval and painted the lines on the oval!
Seriously if you want to talk just the 72 team I reckon that John Phillips,Barry Stringer,Bob Hammond(albeit a bit old),Neil Sachse,Terry Von Bertouch,some guy called Barrie as well as Bugs could have 'walked' into any VFL team at that stage!

McAlmanac

1 Oct 2002, 11:34

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner

Bronte could have mowed Glenferrie Oval and painted the lines on the oval!
Seriously if you want to talk just the 72 team I reckon that John Phillips,Barry Stringer,Bob Hammond(albeit a bit old),Neil Sachse,Terry Von Bertouch,some guy called Barrie as well as Bugs could have 'walked' into any VFL team at that stage!
Not too much disagreement with those players, but that North team was fairly good. I take exception to the notion that SANFL sides were as good as VFL sides back in "the old days". I'll accept that top SANFL sides could probably beat bottom VFL sides, but honestly - we used to get regularly flogged in State games well before the flood of players over the border.

It's true that the SANFL was a fantastic competition way-back-when, but we need to be careful not to look at it with rose coloured glasses.

Leaping Lindner

1 Oct 2002, 11:49

McAlmanac

1 Oct 2002, 11:52

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner

And those glasses are almost opaque as years go by.But what was the reason of 'the gap' between SANFL and VFL.Was it the fact that the skill level dropped away after the top say 6-7 players in the teams?The physical fitness and stamina of the Vics?The more 'professional' attitude of the VFL clubs?
There was also a pretty big gap between the top SANFL sides of the late 70's and the lower ones.I remember getting belted by Glenelg,Port,Norwood and Sturt with monotonous regularity.
All three contributed. Also only two extra teams with four times the population.

Bottom SANFL sides were terrible. Port/Sturt grand finals were great, but Westies v Woodville at Richmond???

Leaping Lindner

1 Oct 2002, 12:12

Originally posted by McAlmanac

All three contributed. Also only two extra teams with four times the population.

Bottom SANFL sides were terrible. Port/Sturt grand finals were great, but Westies v Woodville at Richmond???

1977. You boys had no goals to 3/4 time me and my mate watched John McInnes' 3/4 time address.My main memory is Ralph Sewer looking like he wanted the ground to swallow him up.The best part was Westies were so desperate to make $ due to small crowd they didn't check ID's in the bar and we ended up half tanked.

McAlmanac

1 Oct 2002, 12:24

Ah, John McInnes. I remember at training - "Screw your kicks please". Barry Goodingham just cashed in on his hard work. They didn't immediately re-appoint him after 1978 - went after Ebert as captain-coach - so he didn't re-apply.

Ten years between League matches at Norwood whilst winning three Reserves Magarey Medals, too.

Port Adelaide 1870

1 Oct 2002, 13:00

Originally posted by McAlmanac

Not too much disagreement with those players, but that North team was fairly good. I take exception to the notion that SANFL sides were as good as VFL sides back in "the old days". I'll accept that top SANFL sides could probably beat bottom VFL sides, but honestly - we used to get regularly flogged in State games well before the flood of players over the border.

It's true that the SANFL was a fantastic competition way-back-when, but we need to be careful not to look at it with rose coloured glasses.

If it happened once. or perhaps twice or perhaps three times or perhaps four times or perhaps 5, 6, 7, 8 ,9 ,10 ,11 ,12 or up to 20 I'd understand the big brother little Brother argument..

However dozens of times, Victorian full strength premiership sides pitted themselves against the top SANFL sides from the early 50's in pre season trial games, end of season Champions of Australia games, practice matches and so forth...

Yes I can hear the Vics telling me Oh..we only did that for fun,and you guys took it seriously..We went all the way to Adelaide after challenging you to have fun..and you came all the way to Melbourne to prove a point..... Oh Really ?

after 20 or 30 times I'd understand, but our top teams whether it was practice or not since the 1880's, in Mid season tournaments ( these occured on numerous occassions between interstate clubs as serious competition 4 or 5 game mid season tournaments), Premiers Challenge games , and Champions of Australia games Not one offs, but best of 3 or 4's..

have continously proved themselves over and over and over and over and over and over again against the best from the West and VFL...

Macalmanac..the rose coloured or perhaps the CONVINCED
by propaganda eyes are yours....

Look at the history of WA top teams versus VFL top teams and SA top teams and you will see a history of top clubs being not just competitive, but comprehensively beating full strength VFL clubs in these games, look at the anectdotes from VFL top players and officialsd coaches from these games to realise they were often praising these teams except when Sour grapes set in...to realise...

Top level competition i.e The top SANFL VFL WAFL CLUBS were on a par.....

it was the Overall competition that we had that fell away after club number 4 that made us suffer in State games.....

our top clubs were on Par with the top VFL clubs so were the WAFL's, our top players and the WAFL's were on par...

Naturally following Woodville someones perspective would be half empty...

The history books are chock full of these referances and indicators of Club strength since the 1880's...

PA1870:)

Port Adelaide 1870

1 Oct 2002, 13:23

Originally posted by Unley Legend
Port Adelaide 1870, well said, young man. Remind me, if we ever meet, to buy you a beer! ( Can't believe I'm offering to buy a Port supporter a beer! )

Beer !!!:D :D

Leaping Lindner

1 Oct 2002, 13:43

Originally posted by McAlmanac
Ah, John McInnes. I remember at training - "Screw your kicks please". Barry Goodingham just cashed in on his hard work. They didn't immediately re-appoint him after 1978 - went after Ebert as captain-coach - so he didn't re-apply.

Ten years between League matches at Norwood whilst winning three Reserves Magarey Medals, too.

I wasn't aware that the Peckers had gone after Russell Ebert as early as 1978!I was always a big fan of John McInnes seems like a genuinely nice man.I love the 'please' at the end of "Screw your kicks please". It's hard to imagine Williams,Kerley,Patto or Oatey saying please!:D

Couldn't agree more regarding Barry Goodingham.John was there for years built a competitive team with few resources and then wasn't there for the first prized finals appearance.Pretty sad really!

McAlmanac

1 Oct 2002, 16:10

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870
after 20 or 30 times I'd understand, but our top teams whether it was practice or not since the 1880's, in Mid season tournaments ( these occured on numerous occassions between interstate clubs as serious competition 4 or 5 game mid season tournaments), Premiers Challenge games , and Champions of Australia games Not one offs, but best of 3 or 4's..

have continously proved themselves over and over and over and over and over and over again against the best from the West and VFL...

Trial games simply don't count. Westies won a couple of Australian titles before WW1 and we're all familiar with North's triumph in 72. But maybe you can catalog some more.....

Before the AFL, how many 30-40,000 crowds attended football matches in Adelaide? Obviously the SANFL was decimated, but after 10 years they're getting their marketing strategy right and the crowds seem to be getting healthier.

The aim of any sport is to promote the GAME (not clubs) at the highest possible level. After all, West Adelaide Bearcats and St Kilda were pretty hot before the NBL, but nobody in that sport is advocating going back to the clubs-not-franchises tin shed days.

naughty monkey

1 Oct 2002, 16:57

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870

...
after 20 or 30 times I'd understand, but our top teams whether it was practice or not since the 1880's, in Mid season tournaments ( these occured on numerous occassions between interstate clubs as serious competition 4 or 5 game mid season tournaments), Premiers Challenge games , and Champions of Australia games Not one offs, but best of 3 or 4's..

have continously proved themselves over and over and over and over and over and over again against the best from the West and VFL...

Macalmanac..the rose coloured or perhaps the CONVINCED
by propaganda eyes are yours....

ummm, beg to differ, particulary from the '50s onwards

if you can believe the sanfl site, the vics won 12 of the last 13 champions of australia (1955-1975)

http://www.sanfl.com.au/archive/championofaustralia.htm (http://)

The Vics, on average, were slightly better. The reason I believe was/is due to depth. Even when comparing top teams from each state. SA/WA could match man for man the top 10-12 players from the VIC sides, it was the last 4-5 on the team that were the difference.

Port Adelaide 1870

1 Oct 2002, 19:39

Norwood first beat Essendon in 1883, in 1888 Norwood played South Melbourne for Premiers of Australia in a best of 3 series in Adelaide, Norwood won every game.

In 1884 :Carlton visited Adelaide for a tour of matches. Port lost 4.8 to 2.16

In mid to late august Melbourne F.C visited Adelaide for a tour of matches. Melbourne only won one of four matches played
They drew with Port Adelaide although Port kicked 15 points to 8.

1885 : saw Port in Melbourne for a tour of matches against Vic teams they drew with South Melbourne on the MCG lost to Melbourne 4.6 to 7 .16 and Geelong 2.8 to 5.10 the next week Port played Adelaide at Alberton.

In 1886 : Port were bottom when Geelong Visited Adelaide, a result is not at hand however the report says Geelong believed Port played an Honest, upright, straightforward game and if they continued in that style would surely head the list.

1887 : saw Carlton play a tour of matches in Adelaide, Port lost 5.6 to 7.9 they also defeated Norwood in what was described as one of the most thrilling games to be played in the Colony.

In 1889 : Port had toured Melbourne to play 5 games against Victorian clubs and then North Melbourne in Adelaide.( results currently unavailable )

Norwood were prepared to Travel to Melbourne in 1889 to play South Melbourne again, however despite a number of Venues being available South Melbourne declined the matches.Citing a suitable venue was not available.

1890 : saw South Melbourne Challenge Port Adelaide to Premiers of Australia..Port Adelaide won.

1897 : Port lost to Collingwood.

1906 : Norwood went to Melbourne mid season for a round robin Tournament, They played Carlton that would end up VFL premiers that season, Fitzroy, VFL runner up and Essendon 4th at the end of the season..Norwood won all their matches.

1907 : Norwood Challenged by Essendon for the Championship of Australia. Essendon were duly despatched..13 .12 90 to
7 .9 51

1908 : West Adelaide won the Championship of Australia
against CarltonCarlton Challenged West for the Championship of Australia 12.9 81 to 7.10 52

1909 : West were Challenged by South Melbourne, South melbourne won 6.14 50 to 11.8 74 in Melbourne

1910 : Port defeated Collingwood for Championship of Australia 15 .20 to 7 . 9

1911: Essendon Challenged West Adelaide to the Championship of Australia....West Adelaide won 8.9 to 7 .12

1912 : West Adelaide Challenged Essendon for the Championship of Australia...Essendon refused..in what many at the time believed was a result of the previous years title game.

1913 : Port Adelaide defeated Fitzroy 13 .16 to 4 .7

1914 : Port won Champions of Australia by defeating Carlton 9 .16 to 5 . 6
Port also were the first league side to go thru a season undefeated, in the process ,beating East Fremantle, Carlton ,North Broken Hill and a combined South Australian state side..Port did not lose a match from midway thru the 1913 season until mid way thru the 1915 season..
they beat North Adelaide for the SAFL premiership 13. 5 to 1.8

In this period, Clubs played a lot of Mid season Challenge games it was part of their season organised Club football was still in its infancy in Australia, so mid season sojourns by clubs for round robin Competitive tournaments were a regular feature for all clubs, SA and Vic. The simple minded arrogant consensus by current Vics that these games were fun interludes to their general season is simplistic in the highest order..
The same can be said of SA clubs..however this was not the case for either state as both states clubs honour were at stake.

More to come

PA1870

RoosterWedgie

1 Oct 2002, 20:05

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870

Max Basheer and the SANFL chiefs that surrounded him from the early 70's were men of great vision and altruism.

They had a vision of a Football code that stood outside of state parochialism and encompassed all the virtues of our great game

they carefully and methodically tried to include the WAFL and the VFL in sharing this vision of a national game...

They soon learnt that the WAFL were simply a bunch of babbling, foolish VFL stooges..

And the VFL EVENTUALLY realised the great benefits of supressing league football in SA and WA for their own interests..and to re write Australian football history for the Goons in melbourne that follow these clubs to slavishly believe and try and ahut us up...simply and only through weight of numbers.

Someone just recently commented on Steve Quartermain's Commentary on Channel 4 in Britian on a Footy show put to air there that stated something along the lines...

" Big time Australian Rules Football has only ever been played in the state of Victoria and with the advent of the AFL , Australian Football is being introduced to the rest of Australia"

Many of the posters on the other boards here believe the propaganda with every essence of their soul, yes they know the SANFL and WAFL were once better than they are now, but their vissions are clouded by the overwhelming mire of propoganda they are deep within..

The AFL stole a Vision from the True believers and ran with it for ,their , Victorian Companies and Channnel 7's interests..all in cohoots with each other..

denying great clubs like East Fremantle, South Fremantle, Norwood, Sturt, North Adelaide, West Perth..etc the future of being able to maintain their own dignity, history and prosperity that They had developed over 130 years...
It is this interest devotion and faith in the game that the VFL adeptly stole for its own interests..The former VFL Clubs were NO Bettter than any of these clubs, no greater, no more shrouded in History..Yet now they are AFL clubs and use this to belittle the history of two Great leagues and their clubs..

They in a perverse way have used the new found strength of a Qld club to perpetuate the history of a failed VFL club Fitzroy for their own Grandisement and elevation to another sphere , yet continue to patronise and berate the histories of the WAFL and SANFL..No not even berate...Slowly erasing these histories...Once books contrasted achievements in WAFL, SANFL, VFL always there was which team one the most premierships, highest goalkickers, most games etc....

Youd see records in national books that reflected all three leagues

Yet now..The AFL and all publications connected with it, simply ignore League football outside of Victorian controlled interests...and the History of our great game....

and you wonder why......................................................... .

PA1870

Wow! The best post Ive ever read in my life and its by a Port fan!

McAlmanac

2 Oct 2002, 10:57

A good list - I did look a few up myself - but they're all over or nearly a century ago. Now a lot happened in the 20th century. Let's talk about after WW2 - football's structure was still pretty much the same and SA club footy was still very strong well after the war finished.

I love the SANFL's history and the 50's Ports and 60's Sturts were the equal of Victorian clubs. But the depth simply wasn't the same. 10 (or even 8) teams amongst a population a quarter of that supporting only 12 teams.....

Port Adelaide 1870

2 Oct 2002, 13:32

Originally posted by McAlmanac
A good list - I did look a few up myself - but they're all over or nearly a century ago. Now a lot happened in the 20th century. Let's talk about after WW2 - football's structure was still pretty much the same and SA club footy was still very strong well after the war finished.

I love the SANFL's history and the 50's Ports and 60's Sturts were the equal of Victorian clubs. But the depth simply wasn't the same. 10 (or even 8) teams amongst a population a quarter of that supporting only 12 teams.....

They are only a smidgeon of the Information I have..I will continue to update it as I dig thru my archives...

As you can se..simply on a SA level in regard to that particular period from 1880 - 1915...the SA clubs were simply not intimdated by Victorian counterparts.....I will talk about the later part of the twentietch Century, however..I intend to paint the whole picture..

The one that starts in the 1880's right thru...

As what we have is a SA and WA club football history that was never intimidated by Victorian counterparts and always accounted for themselves par excellence.

The Picture that you ( are seeming to lean to ) is one that the Vics thrust down our throats all the time ...In

We invented football, we were better than anyone, Our Clubs were somehow this Mythalogical Romantic notion of omnipotant greatness, and our Heroes and legends were..quite simply something on a legendary almost deity level..
This the perception that we continually get fed with..

that the Victorians somehow were almost Mythologically great since the 1860's...and SA greats and WA greats.were, well .......somehow....inferior..even if they accounted for themselves better..

Sorry Macca...dont subscribe to that..and I have reams of evidence, wether you like trials and practice and Challenge matches or not...they are the only guide that we have of Club intercolonial/state comparison..and I'll post it all as I go through it.

he standards of the top clubs are brilliant in WA and SA...the standards of the bottom clubs in both states were Shyte.

PA1870

McAlmanac

2 Oct 2002, 13:59

I'm happy with the notion that SA clubs were just as strong as the Victorian clubs in the pre-war days. I certainly don't subscribe to the notion that Victorian legends were any better players than their SA counterparts, just that there was greater depth in numbers as the population expanded.

The unfortunate thing with the way a national competition unfolded was that by the time SA and WA clubs had their players siphoned off by the VFL, the individual clubs in those states didn't have the cattle to join the competition in their own right - composite sides were needed. In practice, without composite sides, how many SA clubs could have joined the national comp? Certainly Port, possibly Norwood. And what about the rest of the SA public? They would have become disenfranchised.

I am the first to say that Dan Moriarty, Shine Hosking, Tom Leahy, Ken Farmer and whoever else were the equal of their Victorian counterparts. And that SA clubs were their equal 100 years ago. But why is it that State victories over the Vics were as rare as hen's teeth? Probably because of the depth of the competition in Victoria. SA has always had the quality - just not in the same numbers. Would Keith Spencer have got a game in the VFL?

Uncle Steve

2 Oct 2002, 14:22

Originally posted by McAlmanac
In practice, without composite sides, how many SA clubs could have joined the national comp? Certainly Port, possibly Norwood. And what about the rest of the SA public? They would have become disenfranchised.

If you are talking in terms of player lists circa 1990, then Glenelg, North and Port; possibly Norwood.

But in reality none of the clubs could have gone it alone in the "A"FL by that point. No single club could draw enough support to make it economically feasible. Norwood, arguably the most well-off club, was wise enough to see this and get behind the SANFL in its push for a composite team with no license fee.

Port Adelaide 1870

2 Oct 2002, 14:58

Originally posted by McAlmanac
. But why is it that State victories over the Vics were as rare as hen's teeth? Probably because of the depth of the competition in Victoria. SA has always had the quality - just not in the same numbers. Would Keith Spencer have got a game in the VFL?

Depth.

Leaping Lindner

2 Oct 2002, 16:09

Just as a note of interest.In the 1986 night series(Fosters ? Cup).North Adelaide beat Melbourne comfortably at Footy Park,then went onto beat Collingwood at Waverely (minus Andrew Jarman,and with Darren Jarman starring in his first game in the centre!).The crunch did come however when Hawthorn played us a couple of weeks later and flogged us.We were the strongest SANFL side that year(in the minor round Uncle Steve:rolleyes: )and Hawthorn were a top 2 VFL side and it really did heighten the gap!

McAlmanac

2 Oct 2002, 16:17

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
Just as a note of interest.In the 1986 night series(Fosters ? Cup).North Adelaide beat Melbourne comfortably at Footy Park,then went onto beat Collingwood at Waverely (minus Andrew Jarman,and with Darren Jarman starring in his first game in the centre!).The crunch did come however when Hawthorn played us a couple of weeks later and flogged us.We were the strongest SANFL side that year(in the minor round Uncle Steve:rolleyes: )and Hawthorn were a top 2 VFL side and it really did heighten the gap!
Melbourne came second to bottom and Collingwood were mid table after replacing their coach mid season with Wes Fellowes being best and fairest. Nuff said.

BTW, 1986 was a magnificent year.... ;)

Leaping Lindner

2 Oct 2002, 16:21

Originally posted by McAlmanac

Melbourne came second to bottom and Collingwood were mid table after replacing their coach mid season with Wes Fellowes being best and fairest. Nuff said.

BTW, 1986 was a magnificent year.... ;)

Still reckon that you would have beaten us that year if you'd got there(seriously).The warriors were bloody awesome in the second half of that year!

timelord

4 Oct 2002, 13:25

Just have to get in my two cents on the subject matter of this thread.

I agree first of all with the comment about stopping patronising AFL matches and going to state league matches instead. I would in fact go further and say go to the local stuff! Just as effective (ie all Adelaide residents go to the SAAFL - or the Southern FL if you live down that way!) and would hurt the AFL just as much. And the food would be cheaper!!!

On which league is stronger, it varies. There were times when country leagues in Victoria were able to beat VFL teams. The game across the country seemed to be more even back in the old days, no matter where it was played. The VFL only became the stronger league because of TV. Victorian TV very rarely saw SANFL or WAFL. But Adelaide and Perth was seeing VFL all the time - as well as the local league. It wasn't uncommon for people in both cities to have a favourite VFL team as well as a favourite local team (case in point - Port Adelaide fans tended to follow Collingwood at the time).

The money was also in Victoria - and don't forget that's the reason why State of Origin was introduced. Without it the VFL would have won every state match no matter what.

That's why the VFL felt it was their right (yeah I know they DIDN'T have the right) to expand nationwide rather than negotiate a proper national league from scratch. The trouble was Victorian officials hated SA because of the perceived control SA had over the old NFL. Victoria got their revenge over the Port Adelaide thing which led to the forced formation of the Crows.

This is a result of one big tribal war! And I just wish someone would get it through their thick skulls that we all play the same freaking game!!

Port Adelaide 1870

4 Oct 2002, 16:35

Originally posted by timelord
Just have to get in my two cents on the subject matter of this thread.

I agree first of all with the comment about stopping patronising AFL matches and going to state league matches instead. I would in fact go further and say go to the local stuff! Just as effective (ie all Adelaide residents go to the SAAFL - or the Southern FL if you live down that way!) and would hurt the AFL just as much. And the food would be cheaper!!!

On which league is stronger, it varies. There were times when country leagues in Victoria were able to beat VFL teams. The game across the country seemed to be more even back in the old days, no matter where it was played. The VFL only became the stronger league because of TV. Victorian TV very rarely saw SANFL or WAFL. But Adelaide and Perth was seeing VFL all the time - as well as the local league. It wasn't uncommon for people in both cities to have a favourite VFL team as well as a favourite local team (case in point - Port Adelaide fans tended to follow Collingwood at the time).

The money was also in Victoria - and don't forget that's the reason why State of Origin was introduced. Without it the VFL would have won every state match no matter what.

That's why the VFL felt it was their right (yeah I know they DIDN'T have the right) to expand nationwide rather than negotiate a proper national league from scratch. The trouble was Victorian officials hated SA because of the perceived control SA had over the old NFL. Victoria got their revenge over the Port Adelaide thing which led to the forced formation of the Crows.

This is a result of one big tribal war! And I just wish someone would get it through their thick skulls that we all play the same freaking game!!

Comrade I em Feeling like Bolshevik now.Hend mi Gun pliz..I von to shoot Kepatilist leader end mek luvly even game.!

Boris

Port Adelaide 1870

4 Oct 2002, 16:46

Originally posted by timelord
. The VFL only became the stronger league because of TV. Victorian TV very rarely saw SANFL or WAFL. But Adelaide and Perth was seeing VFL all the time - as well as the local league.

WA and SA were not watching local leagues Timelord..you see ,thats the point...They were watching League Football not local league...That terminology was not only unheard of pre 1990 it was nonsensical to call League football anything else...

and watching VFL football was simply watching Victorian Football or Victorias league ... Many in SA didnt Follow the VFL teams as their clubs..they simply took an interest in the corresponding club in Victoria, because of Identity..i.e. magpies, Blues etc.

this could be seen in the News write ups on interstate leagues .
The strength of the leagues is generally not in question..The VFL was a stronger league for the major part of the 20 th century..However on a club to club basis,,many Clubs in SA over the decades would have accounted top 4 positions in the VFL over time..

PA1870

FattyLumpkin

5 Oct 2002, 12:11

Originally posted by Port Adelaide 1870

Depth.

Got it in 1 word. How many losers were running around in the SANFL in the 70's/80's, even clocking up 100 games, that would have struggled making a VFL seconds team?

These guys were honest toilers, but really just making up numbers. As Mac (?) said earlier, too many teams - too little talent.

(and '86 was a damn fine year!!!)

Fatty

Port Adelaide 1870

5 Oct 2002, 19:29

Originally posted by FattyLumpkin

Got it in 1 word. How many losers were running around in the SANFL in the 70's/80's, even clocking up 100 games, that would have struggled making a VFL seconds team?

These guys were honest toilers, but really just making up numbers. As Mac (?) said earlier, too many teams - too little talent.

(and '86 was a damn fine year!!!)

Fatty

Fatty,

That said.....Look at the VFL lists from the 70's of their bottom 5 or 6 clubs...toilet material as well...You only have to watch some home and away games on Video between some of those clubs to realise how many lousy hacks were playing in the VFL as well...

5,000 at a local ground in some of those games !! figures of 7,000
8,000, 9,000, were not uncommon..for the greatest league since the dawn of time and all parts of the known and unknown Universe, it wasnt much chop either...

However...the top stuff was just that , good top level Footy.

watching Fitzroy play Footscray was not unlike watching Woodville play West Torrens.

PA1870