View Full Version : The midfield who will replace Peter Bell
I believe that if North is to have any sucess next year they need to look at the midfield setup.Here are some obversations
Harvey: Great find over the last two year, the only real midfielder with pace that gets the ball. But cannot kick on his left side
Simpson: Great overhead for his size with real stamina.But disposal lets himself down
Grant : Probably the most skillful midfielder, but lacks pace and agression to be a real impact player
Stevens: Great player in the past, but has injuries taken their toll
So it maybe a chance for the younger guys to come through.I would like to see pickett or motlop play there. They probably lack the fitness required but they have the vision and agression
Bell's departure creates an opening for someone like Brady Rawlings to step up. With 2 yrs and about 15 games behind him I doubt if he will get a better opportunity than now.
Croode
What about Jess Sinclair I think he will be able to take over from Peter Bell (it used to be Belly till he left, just a little more formal now) and I believe Jess is taking this chance like it is his last breath as he knows that it could well be his last chance, also he is just a little fish in a big pond now, a position he hasnt been in for most of his life, I think this will be a true turning point for Jess, providing of course he can stay injury free, I saw him play twice at the MCG against us, the first time he hurt his shoulder and the next he was carried off on a stretcher I think he started his career with a broken thumb, heres hoping anyway.
Shinboners
13 Jan 2001, 13:39
Originally posted by bob:
Stevens: Great player in the past, but has injuries taken their toll
Stevens was best and fairest in our premiership year in 1999, and his only major injury wasn't caused on the football field. Looking for a replacement for Peter Bell? Look no further than the guy in the number 10 jumper.
Onto Sinclair, I remember one game he played against us in late 1998. We slaughtered Freo, and so, a few of us fans were casting an eye over which Freo player we should poach. Myself and one or two others liked the look of Sinclair, so if he can stay injury free and follow the Pagan program for career ressurection, we will hopefully ensure a few more red faces over at the Shockers.
Shinboners
13 Jan 2001, 13:40
p.s. Oh yeah, why we liked Sinclair. In a team that was getting belted, he had a go, showed a bit of pace, and had some nice disposal skills. But the most important thing was that he kept on trying.
Sinclair is not used to coming second if you know what I mean he likes to be number one,always came first in the swimming comps always best on ground in the football games, always the best cricketer and always won the tennis tournaments , he was always going to be the one who you were going to hear more about, so far he has not lived up to expectations but he certainly has the drive and he certainly has not shown his full potential to date, I think he had a little holiday when he went to Perth it is his kind of town and I believe he is looking at going back when he finishes his football, lets hope he doesnt do what Bell did to us.
[This message has been edited by Daphne (edited 12 January 2001).]
Carey_is_King
13 Jan 2001, 17:36
Originally posted by bob:
Harvey: Great find over the last two year, the only real midfielder with pace that gets the ball. But cannot kick on his left side
Simpson: Great overhead for his size with real stamina.But disposal lets himself down
Grant : Probably the most skillful midfielder, but lacks pace and agression to be a real impact player
Stevens: Great player in the past, but has injuries taken their toll
Bob,
I would add;
Grant - Disposal is poor on occasions, although he has the necessary skills.
Stevens - Disposal is amongst the worst at the club.
Bell - Disposal was shithouse.
Beginning to see a pattern here are we ?
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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.
Aussie_Roo
14 Jan 2001, 05:52
Originally posted by bob:
[B
Stevens: Great player in the past, but has injuries taken their toll
[/B]
Stevo is still a great player and probably will go down as one of our greatest. He has been relatively injury free over his career. Stevens only problem is that he is getting older, and we need some of the younger guys to come up and help him out. Depending on how he is recovering from his freak injury and the effect it has on him, I reckon he definitely would have a couple of really good years left in him.
Aussie_Roo
14 Jan 2001, 05:54
Originally posted by croode:
Bell's departure creates an opening for someone like Brady Rawlings to step up. With 2 yrs and about 15 games behind him I doubt if he will get a better opportunity than now.
Croode
I'm not all that convinced whether Rawlings will be a regular player this year. But you are right, the opportunity is definitely there for him. Hopefully he takes it..
Cup_Half_Full
14 Jan 2001, 13:48
Originally posted by Carey_is_King:
Bob,
I would add;
Grant - Disposal is poor on occasions, although he has the necessary skills.
Stevens - Disposal is amongst the worst at the club.
Bell - Disposal was shithouse.
Beginning to see a pattern here are we ?
CIK,
In your opinion, does anyone at the club have any skill?. You must wonder in amazement on how the roos managed to win 2 premieships in the 90's.
The midfielders have shit disposal.
The key defenders are a liability.
The team list has no depth.
Pickett is too loose.
Harvey doesn't perform in big games.
Grant isn't worthy of a norm smith.
McKernan....well he's just not worthy!
It can't all be attributed to Carey.
You are way too hard on our players.
Here! Here! Cup Half Full
------------------
If you see me getting mighty,
If you see me getting high,
Knock me down,
I'm not bigger than Life
R.H.C.P.
Carey_is_King
15 Jan 2001, 14:43
Originally posted by Cup_Half_Full:
CIK,
In your opinion, does anyone at the club have any skill?. You must wonder in amazement on how the roos managed to win 2 premieships in the 90's.
The midfielders have shit disposal.
The key defenders are a liability.
The team list has no depth.
Pickett is too loose.
Harvey doesn't perform in big games.
Grant isn't worthy of a norm smith.
McKernan....well he's just not worthy!
It can't all be attributed to Carey.
You are way too hard on our players.
CHF,
I will deal with your first statement last if I may.
I stand by my contention that our midfield has poor disposal skills (including Bell). It is there for all to see.
I have said that Mick is getting older and slower - Do you doubt that ? I think it is a statement of fact.
I have also said that Mack was a liability up until last year. Correct me if I am wrong.
Please show me the depth in our list. By everyone's selections in other posts, we have at least 2 of our young recruits in the best 25 players.
Both Pickett & Archer are as loose as Grandma's bloomers. They make up for that by reading the play well, particularly Pickett, but it doesn't alter the facts.
I have never said Harvey does not perform in big games, in fact I doubt I have even mentioned Harvey in any post. I am a fan.
I have made my thoughts known on Grant previously so I won't go over them. Soft is the word that comes to mind. (In my humble opinion, Pickett was the most deserving winner of the Norm Smith Medal in 1999.)
McKernan is worthy of a book. He is the most overpaid and underperformed player in the AFL, bar none. (See reference to follow)
Can it all be attributed to Carey ? Of course not, he only wins 4-5 games a year single handed. That would have been enough to ensure we finished in the lower part of the eight last year. Maybe even out of the eight, I am too lazy to check the numbers.
I know we are not a one man team, and I have a great deal of time for players like Stevens, Pickett, Archer, Mick and co, but I am not blind to their faults either.
Now, your first point.
The team that won the 1996 flag is so different to that which we have today, it almost bears no comparison, but I do not see where we have covered players like Schwass, Fairley, Roberts, Laidley, Sholl & Allison.
Furthermore, we were gone for all money until Freeborn kicked 3 on the trot and virtually took the initiative away from the Swans. And, of course, Corey. We all know his '96 season was outstanding, and his GF was very good. That's why we won the 96GF - against a fairly mediocre opposition, I must say.
The '99 flag was a blessing, since we had to play Carlton (not Essendon) and we were always going to beat them. They were not good enough. However 8 players from that team are no longer playing for us, so it is not relevant to the current team in many ways.
We have won 2 flags because of;
1996- Carey, McKernan, Freeborn.
One not with us now and the other not firing.
1999- Carey, Pickett fortunate result in the Essendon/Carlton game.
Two still ok, the other not likely again.
Teams win flags, not individuals (well, usually - Wayne Harmes might disagree) but that does not mean that the winning teams are faultless or the players perfect.
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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.
[This message has been edited by Carey_is_King (edited 14 January 2001).]
CIK that reference to the fortunate result Carlton/Essendon, before I have a go at you could you please tell me that you are not saying that if Essendon had won then we would have not won the GF.
The invisible mullet
16 Jan 2001, 05:37
maybe we could undo the Schwass/Grant trade. alot of our hopes could end up being pinned on the disposal skills of Dylan Smith and Daniel Harris.
Carey_is_King
16 Jan 2001, 07:54
Originally posted by Daphne:
CIK that reference to the fortunate result Carlton/Essendon, before I have a go at you could you please tell me that you are not saying that if Essendon had won then we would have not won the GF.
I am saying it assisted us in our quest for a flag, because Essendon would have provided much more of a contest than Carlton did. Whether Essendon would have beaten us, we will never know.
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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.
CIK
Obviously you haven't had a chat with an Essadun supporter about this because they are dead set certain that they would have rolled us, and no amount of telling them that you can't win the GF if you aren't in it sways them!!!!
Cheers
Gonzo
Aussie_Roo
16 Jan 2001, 14:20
CIK
I know you're not a fan of McKernan, but surely you would recognise the game he played in the 99 GF. Even though he didn't have an outstanding game, his presence in the second qtr swung the game back our way.
Carey_is_King
16 Jan 2001, 15:13
Originally posted by Aussie_Roo:
CIK
I know you're not a fan of McKernan, but surely you would recognise the game he played in the 99 GF. Even though he didn't have an outstanding game, his presence in the second qtr swung the game back our way.
Nope, one long goal does not a presence make.
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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.
Originally posted by Gonzo:
CIK
Obviously you haven't had a chat with an Essadun supporter about this because they are dead set certain that they would have rolled us, and no amount of telling them that you can't win the GF if you aren't in it sways them!!!!
Cheers
Gonzo
We can all squeal about things that go wrong or don't happen and then cost us a premiership e.g. Carey getting injured in '97.
Let the bummers whine as much as they like, but these days the premiership requires winning the preliminary as well as the Grand Final.
Besides North had to beat Brisbane, a far superior team to Carlton at that time.
CIK, it was two goals in about two/three minutes including a one-on-one against Kouta. I thought McKernan was good in bursts, especially the third quarter, but was quite for long spells. He provided a good focal point in the forward line when Carey was being held by Silvagni. Not his best game, but not his worst either.
Are you saying that by continually picking McKernan, that Denis Pagan and the selection commitee don't know what they are doing??
The invisible mullet
17 Jan 2001, 06:44
McKernan is a frustrating player because he doesn't deliver consistently yet tantalises us with an inspirational 65m goal every 10 games or so. More time in the ruck hopefully will see him return to a greater level of consistency. Matthew Burton might be a great tap ruckman but unfortunately the beneficiaries of his skill usually waste it straight away.
Shinboners
17 Jan 2001, 08:16
The problem with Burton is that he can't seem to run out a game. When he was on song and feeding our midfielders (for example, first half vs Adelaide in Adealide, the last 10 minutes of the 2nd quarter vs Melbourne and the second quarter vs Brisbane, both at Colonial), it was a goal frenzy for us. But in the second half of these games, he seemed to run out of puff and started to lose the ruck contests. That was one thing North did well from '93 to '98, win the ball out of the middle and get it forward as quickly as possible. In '99 and '00, we seemed to be able to do that only in bursts.
Carey_is_King
17 Jan 2001, 09:12
Originally posted by DEVO:
CIK, it was two goals in about two/three minutes including a one-on-one against Kouta. I thought McKernan was good in bursts, especially the third quarter, but was quite for long spells. He provided a good focal point in the forward line when Carey was being held by Silvagni. Not his best game, but not his worst either.
Are you saying that by continually picking McKernan, that Denis Pagan and the selection commitee don't know what they are doing??
Devo,
Your points in the first para are correct and I agree. Am I saying The coaches do not know what they are doing ? I couldn't possibly say that, but I will say, without equivocation, that Corey McKernan would not have a spot in any side I picked. I honestly believe that Dennis has "blind spots" for certain players (Corey, Olarenshaw, Calthorpe and others who I forget) and he seems to be crediting them today, for what they have done in the past.
Somebody laughingly posted recently, something to the effect that the 1993 video tape of Essendon should be erased from Dennis' brain. That about sums it up, though in Corey's case it would be 1996.
I submit to you that if Lange, for example, played like Corey has for the last 4 years, he would no longer be with us.
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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.
Originally posted by Shinboners:
The problem with Burton is that he can't seem to run out a game. When he was on song and feeding our midfielders (for example, first half vs Adelaide in Adealide, the last 10 minutes of the 2nd quarter vs Melbourne and the second quarter vs Brisbane, both at Colonial), it was a goal frenzy for us. But in the second half of these games, he seemed to run out of puff and started to lose the ruck contests. That was one thing North did well from '93 to '98, win the ball out of the middle and get it forward as quickly as possible. In '99 and '00, we seemed to be able to do that only in bursts.
Shinners
Excuse me if I butcher your post but I think it reads better this way:
Originally posted by Shinboners:
The problem with Burton is that he can't seem to run.
Cheers
Gonzo
[This message has been edited by Gonzo (edited 16 January 2001).]
Shinboners
17 Jan 2001, 10:26
LOL Gonzo http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/biggrin.gif
Cup_Half_Full
18 Jan 2001, 05:24
A compliment for some of our players.
Thats all I wanted to see.
Originally posted by Carey_is_King:
CHF,
I know we are not a one man team, and I have a great deal of time for players like Stevens, Pickett, Archer, Mick and co
You nearly got one out, but I'm sure you could do a little better for a team that has made 8 consecutive prelim finals.
Good effort anyway!
Carey_is_King
18 Jan 2001, 08:25
Originally posted by Cup_Half_Full:
A compliment for some of our players.
Thats all I wanted to see.
You nearly got one out, but I'm sure you could do a little better for a team that has made 8 consecutive prelim finals.
Good effort anyway!
Oh, alright,if you are talking about the last 8 years, I will add Blakey, Roberts, Schwass, Laidley & Fairley. I have probably missed quite a few, but I can't remember.
On the other hand, if a team makes 8 consecutive preliminary finals, has the best coach going around, and is as good as you would have me believe, then 2 flags is an underachievement.
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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.
Shinboners
18 Jan 2001, 09:24
Originally posted by Carey_is_King:
On the other hand, if a team makes 8 consecutive preliminary finals, has the best coach going around, and is as good as you would have me believe, then 2 flags is an underachievement.
I would've been quite happy with just the one flag as I never expected to see North win a premiership. But if two flags is an underachievement, exactly how many flags should North have won? There are only things I'm disappointed about when it comes to the Pagan era North. The first is that we should have played against the Eagles in the 1994 Grand Final. The second is that we lost the 1998 Grand Final. It wasn't the loss itself, but that side we had in 1998 was the best I had ever seen in royal blue and white colours, but losing to Adelaide meant that the team didn't get the reward they deserved. Other than that, in '93 North were learning, in '95 Carlton were clearly the best side that season, in '97 an injury riddled North did well to even make the preliminary and similarly, in '00 with all the off-field disruptions we had, we did well to make it as far as we did.
Most pundits seem to have written us off for 2001, but if we get a lucky run with injuries like McEssendon did in 2000, then another flag is not out of the question.
Originally posted by Shinboners:
I would've been quite happy with just the one flag as I never expected to see North win a premiership. But if two flags is an underachievement, exactly how many flags should North have won? There are only things I'm disappointed about when it comes to the Pagan era North. The first is that we should have played against the Eagles in the 1994 Grand Final. The second is that we lost the 1998 Grand Final. It wasn't the loss itself, but that side we had in 1998 was the best I had ever seen in royal blue and white colours, but losing to Adelaide meant that the team didn't get the reward they deserved. Other than that, in '93 North were learning, in '95 Carlton were clearly the best side that season, in '97 an injury riddled North did well to even make the preliminary and similarly, in '00 with all the off-field disruptions we had, we did well to make it as far as we did.
Most pundits seem to have written us off for 2001, but if we get a lucky run with injuries like McEssendon did in 2000, then another flag is not out of the question.
Totally agree, you tend to forget that the 98 side won someting like 14 games in a row, finished on top and for some reason lost the plot for a half.
Carey_is_King
18 Jan 2001, 12:53
My comment was something of a generalisation, I admit, but 1998 was a premiership opportunity lost as far as I am concerned. three in eight years would be about right, four outstanding.
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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.
Aussie_Roo
18 Jan 2001, 14:31
People also tend to forget that we were pretty hot in 99 as well, a record number of wins - 17. I'd like to see the current crop of players win another premiership, before the likes of Carey, Stevo, Martyn etc.. retire. I believe they deserve to be the most successful Kangaroo players. Here's hoping to a successful 2001..
Shinboners
19 Jan 2001, 04:13
Agree Aussie Roo,
Wayne Carey, triple premiership captain, has a nice ring to it, don't you think? http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif
Aussie_Roo
19 Jan 2001, 15:03
Sure does SB
homework_boy
21 Jan 2001, 19:08
Sorry for you to be hearing this, but the homework_boy shoots it likes it is! The kanga's won't do well in o1', now that's new news. Lucky to finish between 8th and 11th.
Well, you're entitled to your opinion but what do you base it on? I.E. reasons?
Originally posted by homework_boy:
Sorry for you to be hearing this, but the homework_boy shoots it likes it is! The kanga's won't do well in o1', now that's new news. Lucky to finish between 8th and 11th.
Shoot! Do you think I can still get my money back on my membership? What's the point in pursuing footy this year if homey boy knows it will all be for nothing?
Shinboners
22 Jan 2001, 10:03
Yeah, like 35eye, I'm totally disillusioned now. I mean, what's the point in handing over our hard earned cash for memberships if Denis, Wayne, and the boys don't bring home the premiership trophy?
Thank you homework boy for saving me a few bucks.
Homey go play in your Melbourne Board something tells me they will listen to you in there.
Homey a Melbourne supporter eh?
Try winning 2 premierships in 4 years with your current crop of players and then come back and spout your drivel.
------------------
If you see me getting mighty,
If you see me getting high,
Knock me down,
I'm not bigger than Life
R.H.C.P.
The invisible mullet
23 Jan 2001, 05:38
To say that a team that has been in the final four the last 7 years may finish 11th is a brave call. I'll take your money on that prediction (and for anything out of the 8)
Originally posted by homework_boy:
Sorry for you to be hearing this, but the homework_boy shoots it likes it is! The kanga's won't do well in o1', now that's new news. Lucky to finish between 8th and 11th.
I think the key to replacing Bell could be summed up in what the objective of the whole team should be in 2001. This is to stop the situation of years past where too much is done by too few.
Just as the forwards will all have to lift a notch to cover Carey as he is in the twilight of his career over the next few years, the midfield will have to lift individually and collectively , rather than necessarily look for a one-for-one replacement for Bell. A direct replacement may or may not step forward, and certainly shouldn't be "expected".
Similarly the defenders will have to be a little more accountable as Martyn's efficiency may start to wane from conceding an average of 2 goals per game to maybe 3 (still good, but not the player of the early-mid 90s).
A couple of seasons of collective improvement will make for an easier transition for a single player to take on a specific role, and develop into a crucial player as he matures.
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