View Full Version : Our Ruck Division
BacharHouli_43
3 Oct 2008, 16:12
We all agree that Hille is our no.1, but there is some conjecture as who should be no.2 and whether we should pick someone up in the draft.
I think we would be better off adding a ruckmen through the rookie list, either a mature (mid 20s) age ruckem or a 17 yr old kid. We need 4-5 ruckmen on a list, but we have ryder who could also play in that role which gives us extra flexibility.
Imo, Bellchambers looks a very good prospect and will challenge Laycock over the next two years for the no 2 spot. Also think that Laycock has the ability to be a solid contributor at this level, contrary to what many ppl think, as he can take a mark and is decent around the ground.
I also believe we would be better off taking a mid/forward with our top few picks as ruckmen take a lot longer to develop, so the best 17 yr old ruckmen is not necessarily going to be the best 25 yr old ruckmen when all the ruckmen reach their peak. So, it would not be wise to waste a top pick on a ruckmen.
I think our ruck division is looking pretty good as it is. What do u guys reckon?
I got howled down for saying we should drop Laycock after about round 17.
I thought lets get Bellchambers in and give him a go.
Some responses were, 5 games isn't going to tell us anything....
Well from his last couple of games I think we can see that he is a brighter prospect than Laycock and that we should be looking for someone else as well.
Laycock is not AFL quality and should not be held any longer than the 2 years we gave him.
Hille and Bellchambers for 2009.......looks good!..........just don't get injured guys!
Bomberlicious
3 Oct 2008, 16:38
Got to agree with Bachar, I think the ruck division's looking ok at the moment - partly in hope of Laycock getting his shite together and playing some games of the Anzac '05 vintage.
Bellchambers seems a very good prospect, something I said of both Hille & Laycock, so let's all hope he follows Hilley's lead.
Still would like another ruck/forward taken early, or even a mature body if there are any around - solely to keep Paddy out of the ruck. IMO, he's a much better CHB/F, or even RR or wing, than to get slammed in the ruck.
Ben the Gooner
3 Oct 2008, 16:50
Hille is class.
Anyone who thinks Bellchambers can hold or even challenge for the second spot consistently all season is wrong.
We need another rookie (e.g. Redden (SA) or Browne (VC)).
A player like Griffen, Seaby or White who can pressure Laycock until Bellchambers is ready would be a good pick-up.
Longy413
3 Oct 2008, 16:59
Well from his last couple of games I think we can see that he is a brighter prospect than Laycock and that we should be looking for someone else as well.
Had Hille not been injured and Bellchambers played instead of Laycock, he wouldn't have played the minutes he did.
He would have played 30-40 minutes had a couple of kicks and a couple of hitouts and still not performed any better than Laycock.
Laycock's form when he has been number one ruckman is still better than anything Bellchambers gave us.
Laycock has a lot of shortcomings, Bellchambers looks a talent, but he hasn't done anything yet that should lead us to think he is a lock in the side.
I disagree.
The only way the kid is going to make the transition is by playing.
You don't see Carlton shying away from giving Kreuzer plenty of game time just because he's a kid.
And talent aside, at least Tom looks like he wants to be out there!
Colin D'Cops
3 Oct 2008, 17:43
Our ruck depth really does make me cringe and just hate it when Hille goes off for a much earned rest. Mainly because when he's off, we lose a lot of run and we get smashed at the clearances because we can't get first hands on the ball. If we can lure Warnock to our club, though unlikely, we can say it very loud and clear to Laycock that if he doesn't perform, he can go and start working in the workforce. Bellchambers is coming along nicely, just needs to build his fitness base up and then we can chuck him in the seniors for a period of time to give him a bit of a taste of AFL footy.
As people have previously mentioned, I would be all for grabbing a ruckman with a third round pick or later or a rookie pick, just need to add some depth in that department.
Talks of Ryder rucking at AFL level is a joke, sure he has a massive leap but that's not the be all and end all with rucking. Positioning and tapping the ball too advantage are the key areas and I don't think he is up to doing them key things consistantly.
I wouldn't bother with White but Seaby is a maybe...........a small maybe!
Slattery_20
3 Oct 2008, 18:44
Seriously what is the benefit of picking up a short term 2nd or 3rd ruck. Waste of a list spot. Knights is putting as much pressure on him as possible without kicking him out, Laycock will either come up or he won't. All for picking up a newbie in the draft though - just can't see the logic in us getting a stop-gap for such an insignificant gain over either Laycock or Belly.
Essendonfc_4_lyfe
3 Oct 2008, 19:00
I disagree.
The only way the kid is going to make the transition is by playing.
You don't see Carlton shying away from giving Kreuzer plenty of game time just because he's a kid.
And talent aside, at least Tom looks like he wants to be out there!
Yeh, and Bellchambers was pick Number 1 in the AFL Draft?
Some people hate Laycock so much they'll think anyone is better than him.
It may not look like it but he would probably try hard out on the field. People are so quick to burn players.
Essendonfc_4_lyfe
3 Oct 2008, 19:09
You cant tell me he's better than Laycock after...
3 games
7kicks
17 handballs
24 Disposals
24 Hitouts
6 Tackles
1 Free For and
3 Frees against
The Dustbin
3 Oct 2008, 20:53
The thing that annoyed me the most about Laycock was his lack of 2nd and 3rd efforts, his inability to put his body on the line, his chasing was non exisitent and his body language gave the indication that he didn't care.
He bludged of Hille and his team mates. We know he has talent, we've seen it before. Like Cupido, talent can only carry you so far. Laycock needs to improve his attitude and application. By round 20 he had lost the respect from the captain (Probably other team mates as well) he now needs to work his backside off to get that respect back and repay the faith shown in him by Knights (Offering him a 2 yr contract).
I agree B'chambers is nowhere near ready to be Hille's deputy, but at least you know he will give a contest and 110% all the time and can only benefit in the long term the more he is exposed at AFL level. As a member that's all I want, someone out there having a decent crack. :thumbsu:
If we pick up a ready made ruckman in the draft I'd expect B'chambers to continue his development with Bendigo. If we go for an untried kid, Laycock will again just cruise through games. He needs someone putting pressure on him. I'm hoping B'chambers can step up in 09. Just have a look at Renouf.
Interesting times ahead...
Darealrath
3 Oct 2008, 22:27
I'm reasonably happy with it.
Hille has obviously taken a leap this year to be an A grade ruckman.
Laycock is talented...I still have hope. 2009 is just about make or break though.
Bellchambers looks promising.
I wouldn't want us to use one of our first 2, maybe even 3, picks on a ruckman when we already have the above three.
Yeh, and Bellchambers was pick Number 1 in the AFL Draft?
1999 Draft
#1 Pick - Josh Fraser
#40 Pick - David Hille
Great logic! :thumbsu:
Good post by The Dustin.......the man speaks sense!
It doesn't matter where you get taken, if a club has a need for a 2nd ruckman which Essendon do, you need to give whoever you have every chance.
Of course Laycock will be the number 2 next year, and when he plays well, I'll commend him.
I don't dislike the guy, I just want the guy to look like he gives a damn just like you said TD. I'll be more than happy to put my hand up and say I was wrong, if he turns out to be decent. But Tom needs to know that he'll get his chance in the seniors if he performs and Jason doesn't!
good to hear someone speak some sense for once, good on you warney7!
bomberz08
4 Oct 2008, 07:51
You cant tell me he's better than Laycock after...
3 games
7kicks
17 handballs
24 Disposals
24 Hitouts
6 Tackles
1 Free For and
3 Frees against
Wonder what Laycock's stats were for his first 3 games?
AndyLesPaul
4 Oct 2008, 08:26
Wonder what Laycock's stats were for his first 3 games?
7 kicks
5 handballs (explainable, cuz this was 2004.)
12 disposals
18 hitouts
1 tackle
4 Frees Against
1 goal
1 behind
but this is almsot definately because of the game time he got i bet.
BigBomber09
4 Oct 2008, 08:39
Laycocks a dud. We are relying on Bellchambers really. Should of got rid of Laycock after '08 and we couldve picked up a Seaby or a Warnock.
The Dustbin
4 Oct 2008, 08:46
Laycocks a dud. We are relying on Bellchambers really. Should of got rid of Laycock after '08 and we couldve picked up a Seaby or a Warnock.
Warnock, yes. Seaby, no.
BigBomber09
4 Oct 2008, 08:54
Is Seaby really that bad?
I recon we could reinvent him. Warnock has a too big a price tag on him.
Maybe Vickery???
Your ruck stocks will be set for the next 5-10 years. (if Bellchambers becomes AFL standard)
Maybe Vickery???
Your ruck stocks will be set for the next 5-10 years. (if Bellchambers becomes AFL standard)
We are not going to recruit a ruckman with our first pick and you can put your house on it.
The Dustbin
4 Oct 2008, 09:56
We are not going to recruit a ruckman with our first pick and you can put your house on it.
Now you sound like Ross McDonald. :D
BigBomber09
4 Oct 2008, 10:09
I think i'd prefer to keep my house. :D
bomberz08
4 Oct 2008, 11:50
Maybe Vickery???
Your ruck stocks will be set for the next 5-10 years. (if Bellchambers becomes AFL standard)
Nah, we need Hurley with our first pick. Plus we could snag roughead later
Essendonfc_4_lyfe
4 Oct 2008, 13:29
7 kicks
5 handballs (explainable, cuz this was 2004.)
12 disposals
18 hitouts
1 tackle
4 Frees Against
1 goal
1 behind
but this is almsot definately because of the game time he got i bet.
In the last game of the last game of the season, Bellchambers was our number one ruckman and most of his stats came in that one game. In Laycocks first games, he played second fiddle to Hille, unlike Bellchambers.
1999 Draft
#1 Pick - Josh Fraser
#40 Pick - David Hille
Great logic! :thumbsu:
Good post by The Dustin.......the man speaks sense!
That was never my logic, Bellchambers wasnt even picked up in the AFL Draft, but was picked up at in the 2007 Pre-season Draft. Josh Fraser is a talented ruckman, so im ntot sure what you are trying to get at there. Collingwood should have chosen Hille number one?
The thing that annoyed me the most about Laycock was his lack of 2nd and 3rd efforts, his inability to put his body on the line, his chasing was non exisitent and his body language gave the indication that he didn't care.
He bludged of Hille and his team mates. We know he has talent, we've seen it before. Like Cupido, talent can only carry you so far. Laycock needs to improve his attitude and application. By round 20 he had lost the respect from the captain (Probably other team mates as well) he now needs to work his backside off to get that respect back and repay the faith shown in him by Knights (Offering him a 2 yr contract).
I agree B'chambers is nowhere near ready to be Hille's deputy, but at least you know he will give a contest and 110% all the time and can only benefit in the long term the more he is exposed at AFL level. As a member that's all I want, someone out there having a decent crack. :thumbsu:
If we pick up a ready made ruckman in the draft I'd expect B'chambers to continue his development with Bendigo. If we go for an untried kid, Laycock will again just cruise through games. He needs someone putting pressure on him. I'm hoping B'chambers can step up in 09. Just have a look at Renouf.
Interesting times ahead...
In bold, i agree with you. It did seem that Bellchambers gave 110% at every contest, but he is still unproven, playing 3 games at AFL level is not an indication. In referance to Laycocks attitude, all i say is dont judge a book by its cover.
It doesn't matter where you get taken, if a club has a need for a 2nd ruckman which Essendon do, you need to give whoever you have every chance.
Of course Laycock will be the number 2 next year, and when he plays well, I'll commend him.
I don't dislike the guy, I just want the guy to look like he gives a damn just like you said TD. I'll be more than happy to put my hand up and say I was wrong, if he turns out to be decent. But Tom needs to know that he'll get his chance in the seniors if he performs and Jason doesn't!
Im sure he will, and when he performs in teh VFL, and Laycock doesnt in the AFL, you will see a switch. The only problem i have, is that all the Laycock haters out there are jumping on the next ruckman, and hoping that he'll be the next Dean Cox, as Laycock hasnt lived up to their expectations as yet.
It took Hille a few years to rise to the challenge of being number one ruckman, as it will take Laycock the same time, if not longer, due to him being 2nd to Hille. Its time to show confiidence in the young man
Ben the Gooner
4 Oct 2008, 13:42
What efc4lyfe is saying is pretty much correct.
No one, not even me, is denying that, at times, Laycock does look disinterested. He needs work, no question. However, the amount that he gets bagged on here is ridiculous. He clearly is good enough to play AFL football talent wise - he just needs a kick up the bum. Following on from some comments Knights made towards the end of the season, I have no doubt that kick has happened and will continue to happen.
However, to suggest that Bellchambers could challenge for the second ruck spot, let alone hold it, for an entire season at 19 years is ridiculous. The kid is going to be good, no question, but not yet. How many 2nd year ruckmen are there dominating the AFL at the moment, or even holding their own as a 2nd ruckman? Kreuzer and Luenberger are the only two who even get a regular game, but neither has set the world on fire. Both will be superstars, but neither has shown as much as Laycock (you could argue Kreuzer as a forward, but that's irrelevant).
Unless we recruit a mature ruckman (yes please), Laycock will, rightly, be the 2nd ruckman next year, and the year after that.
BacharHouli_43
4 Oct 2008, 15:02
Is Seaby really that bad?
I recon we could reinvent him. Warnock has a too big a price tag on him.
Seaby is a complete dud, would much rather have Laycock than Seaby. We should not contemplate bidding for Warnock given what we would have to give up (ie better than carlton's pick 24). Any mature ruckmen from the lower leagues wont be agood fit either, as we are developing a couple of ruckmen already.
Agree, that Ryder has more talent than to be a full time ruckmen but i think in bursts he could enjoy the freedom of roaming around the ground on his own., at times during the season.
I didnt want to turn this into another Laycock bashing thread. I rate the guy as a talent and think if he can get his fitness up then he will be our no 1 in a couple of years.
Also think that Vickery isnt the way to go with that first pick and would much prefer Ziebell, Hurley...
Mr Mosquito
4 Oct 2008, 22:23
Pick pick 23 or 39 for Simon Taylor?
Colin D'Cops
4 Oct 2008, 22:26
Pick pick 23 or 39 for Simon Taylor?
I wouldn't chase Taylor if they were after a second round pick and I doubt they would if they had any clue at all. Pick 39 for Taylor? I would definitely think about that, could be the pick where we attempt to pick out a future gun ruckman.
Mr Mosquito
4 Oct 2008, 22:32
I wouldn't chase Taylor if they were after a second round pick and I doubt they would if they had any clue at all. Pick 39 for Taylor? I would definitely think about that, could be the pick where we attempt to pick out a future gun ruckman.
Agreed! Pick 39 for Taylor? Though i have posted elsewhere that this pick should be packaged with lovett for sydney's first rounder....i confuse myself:confused:
bomba4eva
5 Oct 2008, 01:02
I still have faith in Laycock. Limited but still there is some left in the vault. Perhaps I am being naive, but we all know the potential is there.....
2 year deal was a bit rich though. Did not deserve it just like Dyson did not. Dyson has failed and hopefully Laycock does not go down the same path. Big pre-season coming up for Jason. Former 1st round pick.....many moons ago. Last contract before he either proves he is capable or simply is not up to it. Good luck Jason:thumbsu:
Taylor doesn't fit the requirements for a second ruckman at EFC.
EFC likes the second ruckman to spend time forward and kick an occasional goal.
Taylor doesn't meet these reuirements.
The Donners
5 Oct 2008, 12:02
Had Hille not been injured and Bellchambers played instead of Laycock, he wouldn't have played the minutes he did.
He would have played 30-40 minutes had a couple of kicks and a couple of hitouts and still not performed any better than Laycock.
Laycock's form when he has been number one ruckman is still better than anything Bellchambers gave us.
Laycock has a lot of shortcomings, Bellchambers looks a talent, but he hasn't done anything yet that should lead us to think he is a lock in the side.
I agree. I am happy to persevere with Laycock, I believe his shortcomings relate to what's between his ears. Aggression and intensity, attributes he showed ANZAC Day '05 but sadly has not put a string of those performances together... yet.
Also, I'll admit I had given up on Hille, I don't believe he was a quality tap-ruckman until this season and think he, Hille, has even more improvement left. I can't see why Laycock, 4 years Hille's junior, can't follow suit.
Perhaps I am being extremely optimistic (Donners optimistic???) but I think at 24, having been Essendon's "Kepler Bradley" in '08, will have a huge pre-season and repay the faith that Knights and his team so evidently have in him. :thumbsu:
Ben the Gooner
5 Oct 2008, 12:53
I agree. I am happy to persevere with Laycock, I believe his shortcomings relate to what's between his ears. Aggression and intensity, attributes he showed ANZAC Day '05 but sadly has not put a string of those performances together... yet.
Also, I'll admit I had given up on Hille, I don't believe he was a quality tap-ruckman until this season and think he, Hille, has even more improvement left. I can't see why Laycock, 4 years Hille's junior, can't follow suit.
Perhaps I am being extremely optimistic (Donners optimistic???) but I think at 24, having been Essendon's "Kepler Bradley" in '08, will have a huge pre-season and repay the faith that Knights and his team so evidently have in him. :thumbsu:
Quoted so you don't delete it when you change your mind.:p
A great post, though.
Longy413
6 Oct 2008, 08:26
1999 Draft
#1 Pick - Josh Fraser
#40 Pick - David Hille
Great logic! :thumbsu:
Good post by The Dustin.......the man speaks sense!
His point was, the Kruezer was taken so high because his football skillset was much more developed than that of Bellchambers.
Josh Fraser and David Hille is exactly the same scenerio as Kruezer and Bellchambers.
Fraser was ready to go, played nearly every game in his first year.
Hille was raw and we drafted Allan, Salmon, re-drafted Alessio to protect him.
As for the mention of Seaby in the thread, he wouldn't come to us. He wants to be number one ruckman, he won't be at Essendon.
centurion
6 Oct 2008, 08:35
Taylor doesn't fit the requirements for a second ruckman at EFC.
EFC likes the second ruckman to spend time forward and kick an occasional goal.
Taylor doesn't meet these reuirements.
Not to mention Taylor was squeezed out of a premiership team by a rookie. Don't like that fact.
I have spoken in length with Ant555 about his situation, and we would both like to see EFC pick up an experienced ruckmen, AFL ready, and a rookie ruckmen, that way we have three AFL ready ruckmen (Hille/Laycock/Jeff White??) and then have 2 rookies we are going to develop (Bellchambers and a rookie from this draft)
I have also been following the progrss of a young ruckmen from AFLQ, Broc MCcauley, he has switched over from Soccer and is doing really well for himself, here is some informaton on him
Broc McCauley – Southport Sharks
Age: 20
Height: 201cms
Weight: 94kgs
1km: 2min 45sec
Beep Test: 13.8
Having been playing soccer for Mt Gravatt in the Queensland State League at the start of 2006, this agile big-man gave up the goal keeping and switched over to the increasingly popular AFL. He played one year of local footy in which the Southport Sharks identified this kid as a potential superstar of the game. Getting a preseason under his belt before the 2007 season allowed him to really shine out as one of, if not the fittest ruckman in the league. At 201cms he scored an amazing 13.8 for the beep test, and still has a turn of pace with a 2:45 for the one km. Learning the game as he played Broc soon began to show his dominance, and his ability to run out games made him a real threat to his opposition. By the end of the season he had come on leaps and bounds, and had also added another string to his bow, being able to go forward and kick goals. While other ruckmen rest on the bench, this giant can use his exceptional fitness to remain on the ground, stretching the defence of any side.
During the finals Broc showed just how much he had improved over the space of just one season in the QAFL. In the finals Broc put out three great performances and moved his side into the grand final. In the first final Broc dominated throughout the day and was named high in the bests players, kicking 2 goals to go with his strong tap work. The preliminary final he came up against the two state ruckmen and took them apart, especially in the last quarter, running all over the top of the pair. In the last quarter he surged forward to kick a goal with a banana from the boundary line, showing the big man has great skills for a ruckman. The grand final he rucked against Joel Smoah (touted as a top 25 pick) and won most of the taps. His ability to perform in the big games is a great sign from such a young player.
His development over his first year of QAFL under ruck coach Roger Merrett shows this boy has the brains to learn the game quickly, and his ability to think his way through situations is a valuable asset many ruckmen don’t possess. At age 20 he has added maturity over many of the 17-18 year olds entering the senior game, however given only a limited AFL career he has not developed many bad habits younger ruckmen did whilst playing against undersized opponents. The added capacity to go forward and kick goals combined with the immense fitness makes him the ideal around the ground big-man. Broc’s ability to tap very accurately with both hands combined with his raking 55m kicks and vast aerobic capacity make this young giant a likely draft prospect for clubs with deficiencies in their ruck stocks.
On the southport website also has match reports with Broc being mentioned a couple of times.
Another key for the Sharks was improving young ruckman Broc McCauley, who did well at the bounces, but most importantly showed maturity with his work in the closing stages when he helped to lock the ball on the eastern wing.
Ruckman Broc McAuley, who dominated the taps all day, played a key part by regularly finding the boundary line
http://www.southportsharks.com.au/football.asp
I would love to see him play, seems a very decent size, and would be be very agile for a big man, having been a goalkeeper before soccer, is fit, 3km time trial a good result.
I would love to see Jeff White at Essendon, as we could be able to develop Bellchambers a bit more and White to put pressure on Laycock on the ones.
Thoughts......
The Dustbin
6 Oct 2008, 14:54
How's your homework going on VFL ruckmen?
How's your homework going on VFL ruckmen?
am nearly finished actually
had completely forgot about them
:thumbsu::thumbsu:
thanks have it up soon...
The Dustbin
6 Oct 2008, 15:07
Just on SEN...
The Roos have made McIntosh available if the right offer comes along. Wonder what the Roos value him at? ^ First round draft pick for sure....
The Dustbin
6 Oct 2008, 15:09
am nearly finished actually
had completely forgot about them
:thumbsu::thumbsu:
thanks have it up soon...
I knew you'd be onto it. :thumbsu:
Just on SEN...
The Roos have made McIntosh available if the right offer comes along. Wonder what the Roos value him at? ^ First round draft pick for sure....
Do we make a play for Macintosh or do we leave him be, as we dont really need two no1. rucks at our club do we. or would you like it and play Hille forward more permanantley.
AxelFoley
6 Oct 2008, 15:23
Do we make a play for Macintosh or do we leave him be, as we dont really need two no1. rucks at our club do we. or would you like it and play Hille forward more permanantley.
Wouldnt mind McIntosh at all, saves Laycock getting a game as our 2nd ruckmen. As mentioned, would help Hille push forward where he's dangerous, dunno if he's worth what we'd have to give up though
Wouldnt mind McIntosh at all, saves Laycock getting a game as our 2nd ruckmen. As mentioned, would help Hille push forward where he's dangerous, dunno if he's worth what we'd have to give up though
Yeah, am not giving up our first round pick, would we consider maybe offloading say a Winderlich, someone who just gut runs,
The Dustbin
6 Oct 2008, 15:41
Do we make a play for Macintosh or do we leave him be, as we dont really need two no1. rucks at our club do we. or would you like it and play Hille forward more permanantley.
He could be damaged goods after his knee injury. Maybe that's why Laidley is opened to offers...
He could be damaged goods after his knee injury. Maybe that's why Laidley is opened to offers...
Yeah. but a half fit Macintosh may be better than a fully fit Laycock???:D
The Dustbin
6 Oct 2008, 15:54
Yeah. but a half fit Macintosh may be better than a fully fit Laycock???:D
2nd that. :thumbsu:
Hamish will be too costly trade wise for Essendon to consider.
Sure he'd be good, but not worth it IMO.
Charliebrow16
6 Oct 2008, 18:25
Yeah, am not giving up our first round pick, would we consider maybe offloading say a Winderlich, someone who just gut runs,
I'd like to keep Winderlich. Clearly biased but he is one of my favourites.
I'd pick up White in the PSD for a short term fix for our ruck stocks. If of course there's nobody better when our selection comes.
Slattery_20
6 Oct 2008, 21:02
Surely McIntosh is only leaving because of lack of opportunities - has proven that he's a good 1st ruck. Wouldn't be in front of Petrie (although I think they will regret it later)
Hence - he'll only go where he can be given the 1st ruck spot. Blues? Brisbane? Tiges?
Charliebrow16
6 Oct 2008, 21:30
Surely McIntosh is only leaving because of lack of opportunities - has proven that he's a good 1st ruck. Wouldn't be in front of Petrie (although I think they will regret it later)
Hence - he'll only go where he can be given the 1st ruck spot. Blues? Brisbane? Tiges?
If we were being realistic then I think that McIntosh wouldn't be going to those teams. Brisbane have Charman (maybe), Richmond have (Simmonds) and the Carlton, if they land Warnock, will have more ruckmen than they'll know what to do with.
As I said, I'd love him at Bomberland but just not with our pick five.
Yeah. but a half fit Macintosh may be better than a fully fit Laycock???:D
totally agree. laycock has promised for years but he is just not up to AFL standard