View Full Version : Fletcher VS Ryder after 3 years
I was wondering how Ryder first 3 years in the AFL compares to Fletchers first 3 years in the AFL ?
Ludwig van Bertstare
17 Oct 2008, 23:13
Fletcher's first two years and Paddy's second and third years are averaging near the same amount of posessions with Paddy kicking more goals and getting more tackles.
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/D/Dustin_Fletcher.html
http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/players/P/Patrick_Ryder.html
I don't know if Fletcher was beaten a lot because I was very young back then.
The Donners
18 Oct 2008, 09:50
As much as I enjoy watching players like Ryder, agile and athletic, I don't find his defensive ability to be high class... yet. Although Fletcher didn't start off as a champion, my personal opinion is that Fletcher was slightly ahead at the same games/seasons played.
Slattery_20
18 Oct 2008, 11:07
Ryder has played in mostly poo teams. Fletcher won a flag just after doing his year 12 exams. You would expect stats to match that.
dons man
18 Oct 2008, 11:39
true, but remember who fletcher was playing on that year as a year 12 - modra, dunstall, lockett, kernahan, sav rocca, and probably would have had stints on ablett and carey. not a bad test in your first year i guess.
myers_23
18 Oct 2008, 12:20
true, but remember who fletcher was playing on that year as a year 12 - modra, dunstall, lockett, kernahan, sav rocca, and probably would have had stints on ablett and carey. not a bad test in your first year i guess.
who cares? as long as paddy will be able to play on buddy, fev, browny, reiwoltd and pavlich then it doesnt matter who fletcher played on cause paddy wont be playing on them. Going by his improvement year after year he will be fine against those men, especially when he adds 10kgs.
caboose
18 Oct 2008, 12:31
I like Paddy a lot, and his potential is unlimited.
But, for whatever the comparison is worth, Dustin had more runs on the board after three years. He adapted to the top level very easily, played on the best full forwards, and had a premiership under his belt when he was still a schoolboy.
I think a lot of people tend to forget just how good he was right from the very start.
As much as I enjoy watching players like Ryder, agile and athletic, I don't find his defensive ability to be high class... yet. Although Fletcher didn't start off as a champion, my personal opinion is that Fletcher was slightly ahead at the same games/seasons played.
Agreed:D Ryder great to watch but fletch was ahead.
It hard to compare the 2 considering the different times and style of play that occurs. its alot easier now to get cheap kicks. and harder to spoil probs with less bang it in to the fullforward/fullback contest. Also Ryder has had a very unaccountable/poor performing team in recent years putting alot more pressure on him and sometimes undefenable situations.
The_Young_Gun
18 Oct 2008, 17:49
Once he puts on muscle I can't wait to see Ryder in an Adam Goodes Role.
I reaken he's up for it...
warney7
18 Oct 2008, 22:18
Yeah, I don't think he has quite lived up to what Essendon supporters collectively expected.
He needs to get a few more kilos onto his frame so he doesn't get moved so easily.
Also, if the midfield allows the ball to get into defensive 50 as much as it has over the past few years, it doesn't matter how good he is, he'll ALWAYS have goals kicked against him.
Take the game against Adelaide for example. Nick Gill is rubbish and kicked 5, simply because the ball was getting to him far too easily.
Smyth94
19 Oct 2008, 12:10
Yeah, I don't think he has quite lived up to what Essendon supporters collectively expected.
This is more to do with the fact that Essendon supporters expect too much, too soon IMO
Once he puts on muscle I can't wait to see Ryder in an Adam Goodes Role.
I reaken he's up for it...
He has not got anywhere near the footy nous than Goodes has.
You watch when Ryder plays ruck. He has no idea when it comes to getting to position around the ground. Has always been a problem for him.
What was Fletcher actually drafted as? We drafted Ryder as a ruck started him as a ruck in his first year and have been training him as a defender since his second year. I don't think Fletcher was drafted as a FB either was just thrown to the lions by sheedy and it worked a wonder.
The Donners
20 Oct 2008, 12:10
Once he puts on muscle I can't wait to see Ryder in an Adam Goodes Role.
I reaken he's up for it...
I agree, given time he could play a similar role.
The Donners
20 Oct 2008, 12:15
He has not got anywhere near the footy nous than Goodes has.
You watch when Ryder plays ruck. He has no idea when it comes to getting to position around the ground. Has always been a problem for him.
I agree with this also. I think it could be as much a lack in confidence of his own ability as it is a lack of experience or footy smarts.
The_Young_Gun
20 Oct 2008, 15:35
I agree with this also. I think it could be as much a lack in confidence of his own ability as it is a lack of experience or footy smarts.
Do we think he needs a mentor?
I agree with this also. I think it could be as much a lack in confidence of his own ability as it is a lack of experience or footy smarts.
You are contradicting yourself in your last 2 posts.
I have stated many times before that Ryder doesn't naturally read the play around the ground and could never be a Adam Goodes.
We should aspire to Ryder becoming as a coompolished a key Back as Trent Croad.
Trent Croad had very similar charactersitics to Ryder at the beginning of his career.
Smyth94
20 Oct 2008, 21:20
You are contradicting yourself in your last 2 posts.
I have stated many times before that Ryder doesn't naturally read the play around the ground and could never be a Adam Goodes.
We should aspire to Ryder becoming as a coompolished a key Back as Trent Croad.
Trent Croad had very similar charactersitics to Ryder at the beginning of his career.
Why can't Ryder learn how to run to the rights spots?
He's 20, not 28.
I wouldn't be so quick to pigeon hole Ryder into anything, given his obvious talents.
Even the wisest cannot see all ends :)
I am stating my observations after watching Ryder play for 3 years.
He spent parts of the last 3 games in the ruck and averaged about 8 possessions which indicates he doesnt read the play.
His time in the forward line was spent trying to mark from 3, 4 or 5 back in the pack and he didn't have the nous to make space in the forward line.
Why dont we concentrate on EFC developing his full potential so that he becomes a very good Key Back if not an outstanding Key Back.
And if it is so easy to learn to read the play every team would have 1 or 2 Luke Hodges' in the backline.
Here_we_come
20 Oct 2008, 23:27
I am stating my observations after watching Ryder play for 3 years.
He spent parts of the last 3 games in the ruck and averaged about 8 possessions which indicates he doesnt read the play.
His time in the forward line was spent trying to mark from 3, 4 or 5 back in the pack and he didn't have the nous to make space in the forward line.
Why dont we concentrate on EFC developing his full potential so that he becomes a very good Key Back if not an outstanding Key Back.
And if it is so easy to learn to read the play every team would have 1 or 2 Luke Hodges' in the backline.
I don't think you can disregard Ryder as a forward/ruck after a mere handful of games. He needs more of an opportunity than that. At the moment he appears more effective as a defender, but that doesn't mean he won't make it in other positions.
And I don't think it's unreasonable to expect him to become a better player/backman than Croad. Croad is a decent defender, nothing more, whereas I think Ryder can become quite a bit more than that. His first 6 or so weeks this season were nearly as good as any defender in the league, and he's only 20.
This whole thread is a bit unfair on him imo. We are comparing him to one of the greatest defenders Essendon has ever had!
I am more than happy with Ryders development so far and I am certain he'll become an absolute gun in whichever position he ends up.
I started the thread as a point of comparison.
There is no shame in being a top backman but being unable to ruck or play forward.
After all Fletcher was hardly a successful forward or ruck.
The Donners
21 Oct 2008, 06:35
You are contradicting yourself in your last 2 posts.
I have stated many times before that Ryder doesn't naturally read the play around the ground and could never be a Adam Goodes.
We should aspire to Ryder becoming as a coompolished a key Back as Trent Croad.
Trent Croad had very similar charactersitics to Ryder at the beginning of his career.
I agreed with 2 very good posts from 2 different angles, it was not my intention to be contradictory.
Smyth94
21 Oct 2008, 06:36
I started the thread as a point of comparison.
There is no shame in being a top backman but being unable to ruck or play forward.
After all Fletcher was hardly a successful forward or ruck.
I don't really remember a lot of Fletcher's younger days but did he really ever get an extended opportunity to play ruck/forward?
The Donners
21 Oct 2008, 06:38
I don't think you can disregard Ryder as a forward/ruck after a mere handful of games. He needs more of an opportunity than that.
It could be our archilles heel moving forward, we don't know where to play him! :D
The Donners
21 Oct 2008, 06:42
I don't really remember a lot of Fletcher's younger days but did he really ever get an extended opportunity to play ruck/forward?
Not ruck, he was up forward for a short period to some effect, I recall at least 1 game where he booted 3 goals and created others... and was extremely entertaining to watch! :thumbsu: