View Full Version : Reverse Swing after 9 Overs
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 20:44
Do I sense cough lollies?
How is it possible to be swinging it towards the shiny side after such a short time?
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 20:46
Do I sense cough lollies?
How is it possible to be swinging it towards the shiny side after such a short time?
well the indians have been playing with tactics.
Whereas the aussies persist for over 30 overs with the seam up, Ishant and Zaheer have been bowling cross seam.
Im hardly surprised, this was pretty obviously the plan from ball 1.
Do I sense cough lollies?
How is it possible to be swinging it towards the shiny side after such a short time?
Pay Attention.
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 20:54
Yeah they must be cheating :thumbsd:
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:04
It does seem a bit strange.
Even when the poms admitted to tampering with the ball they could not get it to reverse swing so quickly.
Noticed the other day, an Indian cricketer, had something in his mouth, up under the top lip, which he extracted moisture from whilst shining the ball, its only illegal if you get caught I guess.
Were you guys paying attention at all?
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:12
they obviously werent, and its smart tactics.
This pitch has no grass, its like hammering the ball into bitumen.
The indians had a plan from ball 1 to bowl across the seam, most viewers were oblivious as to what was going on out there.
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:12
Were you guys paying attention at all?
Out of interest what is your explanation YOTC?
they obviously werent, and its smart tactics.
This pitch has no grass, its like hammering the ball into bitumen.
The indians had a plan from ball 1 to bowl across the seam, most viewers were oblivious as to what was going on out there.
Out of interest what is your explanation YOTC?
Like dr nick, i was paying attention.
You can't even pay attention to the TV and you can't even read the thread.
Might aswell just get rid of those eyes mate :(
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 21:17
they are cheating
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:20
Like dr nick, i was paying attention.
You can't even pay attention to the TV and you can't even read the thread.
Might aswell just get rid of those eyes mate :(
Are they magic and able to get it to fall on the same side every ball?
As I would assume it has an equal chance of messing with either side of the ball and not reaching your goal of one rough and one smooth side.
Are they magic and able to get it to fall on the same side every ball?
As I would assume it has an equal chance of messing with each side of the ball and not reaching your goal of one rough and one smooth side.
You rough up the ball and tender to one side.
It's not hard mate. It's the roughness that counts on these pitches, not the shine.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:21
lmao - he still thinks they have to maintain a shiny side.
you obviously dont know much about reverse swing but its all about making one side of the ball heavy and damp.
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 21:23
cant you 2 hear me deadly outbreak is right, they are cheating
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:23
You rough up the ball and tender to one side.
It's not hard mate. It's the roughness that counts on these pitches, not the shine.
But how to you magically only rough up one side so quickly?
Are they that good at keeping the ball in good condition on the other despite the bitchimen qualities of the pitch?
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:24
But how to you magically only rough up one side so quickly?
Are they that good at keeping the ball in good condition on the other despite the bitchimen qualities of the pitch?
obviously went right over your head. still with the roughing up of only one side :rolleyes:
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:26
Wasn't it YOTC who just said keep one side tender and the other rough.
Sorry for the use of the word shiny.
How about not rough side? Is that better for you.
Or the good side and the bad side.
But how to you magically only rough up one side so quickly?
Are they that good at keeping the ball in good condition on the other despite the bitchimen qualities of the pitch?
You need some quality time with the red ball, mate.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:27
you tender to one side - not keep it tender lmao.
you tender to one side - not keep it tender lmao.
It's a red ball, not red meat :(
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 21:29
Wasn't it YOTC who just said keep one side tender and the other rough.
Sorry for the use of the word shiny.
How about not rough side? Is that better for you.
Or the good side and the bad side.
must keep one side very very tender
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:29
It's a red ball, not red meat :(lmao thats a quality call :D
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:32
Sorry for misinterpreting you words.
I still do not believe two sides of the ball being in bad condition will give you the swing you need.
If weighing one side of the ball up was so easy why can't other teams get the same results so early into a match?
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 21:32
are they cheating deadly outbreak
Sorry for misinterpreting you words.
I still do not believe two sides of the ball being in bad condition will give you the swing you need.
And we're back to post number 3.
Pay Attention.
Cousin Jed
18 Oct 2008, 21:35
YOTC are you intentionally trying to act like a complete knob?
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:37
And we're back to post number 3.
Pay Attention.
and the bit he edited in would pertain to post 10
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:38
are they cheating deadly outbreak
How would I know.
I just think it looks funny. The last time it looked funny there was cheating involved.
It is not like India are above ball tampering.
YOTC are you intentionally trying to act like a complete knob?
Lets just say i'm not not trying :)
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:40
and the bit he edited in would pertain to post 10
Sorry for adding something to my post almost strait away.
Would you prefer me to post one after the other for you instead of editing?
Sorry for adding something to my post almost strait away.
Would you prefer me to post one after the other for you instead of editing?
You're not very good at interpreting are you?
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 21:44
lmao - he still thinks they have to maintain a shiny side.
you obviously dont know much about reverse swing but its all about making one side of the ball heavy and damp.
You have got rocks in your head.
There isnt an ounce of water within 10km of that ground. India is one big desert.
The key to reverses swing is to keep the ball as DRY as possible.
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 21:47
There is nothing of interest in post three or post 10 except people having a go at me/others.
No magic reason for why India can get swing and others can't.
Well except for a concrete pitch which has never happened before in the history of the game and explains everything.
Or that India are masterminds who came up with a great idea to bowl across the seam early which has also never happened before in history. Maybe they are the world masters at producing sweat and saliva.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:47
The key to reverses swing is to keep the ball as DRY as possible.
lmao - absolutely clueless.
Yeah, but they always get their moisture from the puddles in the outfield
India is one big desert.
LtD shows his world knowledge.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 21:48
Im not sure if they are cheating. The ball defintely was tailing very early.
With the admission of Trescothik im sure Chris Broad the match referree is keeping an eye on proceedings.
****ing hell, imagine if overnight a ball tampering story erupts. **** me Gavasakar will come out firing tomorrow, somehow Ponting will be blamed. India will threaten to go home and then realise they are at home.
Nicholis would be using every word under the sun. "Overnight sensational, unbelieveable news emerged from the depths of the umpires rooms.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 21:49
lmao - absolutely clueless.
Explain to me your the ball swings with a damp side on it?
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 21:51
LtD shows his world knowledge.I think someone lost in WoW tonight. ;)
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:52
Explain to me your the ball swings with a damp side on it?
that's like asking explain why the ball swings with a shiny side.
for heavens sake you have little idea. google it if you are interested in the physics.
I wonder why all the opening bowlers wipe their brow to shine the ball, and i wonder why zaheer was doing the same. :rolleyes:
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 21:54
I presume with your theory of keeping the ball damp that the damp side will be weighted and therefore swing towards the weighted side.
What a load of crap. Strange how reverse swing is common in the subcontinent, one of the dryest places on earth.
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 21:54
that's like asking explain why the ball swings with a shiny side.
for heavens sake you have little idea. google it if you are interested in the physics.
I wonder why all the opening bowlers wipe their brow to shine the ball, and i wonder why zaheer was doing the same. :rolleyes:That's to get orthodox swing, not un-orthodox swing.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 21:57
That's to get orthodox swing, not un-orthodox swing.
that's a naive way of looking at it :cool:
What a load of crap. Strange how reverse swing is common in the subcontinent, one of the dryest places on earth.
So so dry....
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:00
So so dry....
lol dry wit :D
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 22:02
How about this article.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/england/4155734.stm
Has a few explanations about it.
Saying that reverse swing usually comes in at over 40 or so. England got it down to 15. Their explanation for England was roughing up the ball more than everyone else. Later to be shown to really be illegal mints used on the ball.
India have managed 9. They are gods of reverse swing.
I presume with your theory of keeping the ball damp that the damp side will be weighted and therefore swing towards the weighted side.
What a load of crap. Strange how reverse swing is common in the subcontinent, one of the dryest places on earth.
Its not one of the dryest places on earth at all for a start.
The moisture comes from the players sweat and saliva not from the sky or the earth anyway.
The ball swings because the "rough" side is lighter therefore it moves quicker through the air than the heavier side which requires more momentum because of its greater mass.
Havent you ever taped one side of a tennis ball?
It swings toward the taped side because it is heavier.
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 22:06
after all, india is the dryest place on earth!
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 22:07
So you think salvia is going to weight the ball sufficient for it to start swing in the 9th over?
What a load of shit.
Layers of tape is a bit different to spit.
Reverse swing occurs because the ball gets roughed up. On the rough side "pockets" of air form in the rough bits of the ball when its bowled and therefore the rough side is "air over air" while the shiny side is "air over leather".
Air over air has less resistance then air over leather and therefore the ball will swing towards the rough side.
It is important though to keep the ball as dry as possible.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 22:09
after all, india is the dryest place on earth!
Oh the ball goes reverse because the players weight one side with spit.
ROFLMFAO
:D
That theory is under 13 speak.
Lightweight.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:09
So you think salvia is going to weight the ball sufficient for it to start swing in the 9th over?
What a load of shit.
Layers of tape is a bit different to spit.
Reverse swing occurs because the ball gets roughed up. On the rough side "pockets" of air form in the rough bits of the ball when its bowled and therefore the rough side is "air over air" while the shiny side is "air over leather".
Air over air has less resistance then air over leather and therefore the ball will swing towards the rough side.
It is important though to keep the ball as dry as possible.
wow if it isnt mr physics who only moments ago was wondering why the ball swings with a damp side :D
Tetrazzini
18 Oct 2008, 22:10
Seems to me that they have red gaffer tape in their pockets and when an adbreak is on they stick the gaffer tape on one side of the ball very easy to do, not as far fetched as you guys might think, gaffer tape is quite advanced these days and the umpires naked eye cannot see it
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 22:11
Seems to me that they have red gaffer tape in their pockets and when an adbreak is on they stick the gaffer tape on one side of the ball very easy to do, not as far fetched as you guys might think, gaffer tape is quite advanced these days and the umpires naked eye cannot see it
i think you are onto something tetrazzini!
what a bunch of cheaters!!!
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 22:11
Oh the ball goes reverse because the players weight one side with spit.
ROFLMFAO
:D
That theory is under 13 speak.
Lightweight.
No one has ever played on a hard wicket before or even tried to load a ball up with sweat and saliva before the 30th over.
India should applauded for thinking of such revolutionary tactics.
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 22:11
Its not one of the dryest places on earth at all for a start.
The moisture comes from the players sweat and saliva not from the sky or the earth anyway.
The ball swings because the "rough" side is lighter therefore it moves quicker through the air than the heavier side which requires more momentum because of its greater mass.
Havent you ever taped one side of a tennis ball?
It swings toward the taped side because it is heavier.
Actually, you're wrong. The reason it swings towards the rough side (Orthodox swing) is because it is heavier than the Shiney side which is lighter because it is much smoother and able to move through the air more easily.
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 22:13
Actually, you're wrong. The reason it swings towards the rough side (Orthodox swing) is because it is heavier than the Shiney side which is lighter because it is much smoother and able to move through the air more easily.
wow.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:15
Actually, you're wrong. The reason it swings towards the rough side (Orthodox swing) is because it is heavier than the Shiney side which is lighter because it is much smoother and able to move through the air more easily.
It isnt any heavier on the rough side at all. Your missing the whole point.
No one has ever played on a hard wicket before or even tried to load a ball up with sweat and saliva before the 30th over.
India should applauded for thinking of such revolutionary tactics.
Nobody is saying it's unusual. However their cross seam tactics were clearly different to Australia's seam upright bowling.
It's important to create a rough side, aswell as a maintained side.
Actually, you're wrong. The reason it swings towards the rough side (Orthodox swing) is because it is heavier than the Shiney side which is lighter because it is much smoother and able to move through the air more easily.
Its not heavier, its smoother so less wind resistance thats how conventional swing works.
How can something heavier move faster than something lighter when the same force is applied?
Newton's second law F=ma so a=F/m.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:20
some of you people i swear to god have never bowled with a four piece 6-stitcher in your life.
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 22:20
It isnt any heavier on the rough side at all. Your missing the whole point.
Now I know you will tell me if I am wrong but I am going to give it a shot.
Swing comes from a shiny side that travels differently through the air than a rough side for obvious reasons.
Weight added through sweat/saliva changes this when the weighted side starts to travel differently through the air than the rough side.
Now what I want to know is how they managed to get it weighted down so much quicker than everyone else who is not a cheat?
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 22:21
It isnt any heavier on the rough side at all. Your missing the whole point.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/england/4155734.stm
"In simple terms, the aerodynamics of bowling means the shiny side travels faster through the air, while the rough side acts as a brake, pushing the ball in that direction."
Okay, maybe not heavier, but you know what I meant.
Cooldude
18 Oct 2008, 22:22
They're just being smart, they're legally roughing up the ball by bowling cross seam and keeping one side very polish while the other continues to be roughed up
Unless anything can be proven that they tampered with the ball illegally, then what they're doing can only be called innovative, because most people would bowl seam up with the new ball because it's a tradition to keep the seam upright and get movement, but they broke convention and went the other way, got some results, should be applauded
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:22
Its not heavier, its smoother so less wind resistance thats how conventional swing works.
How can something heavier move faster than something lighter when the same force is applied?
Newton's second law F=ma so a=F/m.
In this house we obey the laws of thermodynamics! :mad:
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:22
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/cricket/england/4155734.stm
exactly. the rough side isnt heavier at all. next.
oh well, nice edit there.
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 22:24
exactly. the rough side isnt heavier at all. next.
oh well, nice edit there.But you're saying the do reverse swing by putting saliva on the shiny side. When that infact is not true. I say that you read that article.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 22:24
Listen you n00bs.
Rough side = air sits in the scratches and dents on the rough side, consquently when the ball is bowled air "sits" in the rough bits.
Shiny side = has to be kept as shiny as possible and as dry as possible, you dont want to coat the ball in buckets of sweat and salvia. Thats why Englands lolly thing worked so well. You didnt have to use much spit to get the ball shiny. The ball has to be kept very dry though otherwise the air wont sit in the pockets.
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 22:25
cant we all just agree that they are cheating!
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:25
They're just being smart, they're legally roughing up the ball by bowling cross seam and keeping one side very polish while the other continues to be roughed up
Unless anything can be proven that they tampered with the ball illegally, then what they're doing can only be called innovative, because most people would bowl seam up with the new ball because it's a tradition to keep the seam upright and get movement, but they broke convention and went the other way, got some results, should be applauded
exactly. all these people are scratching their heads, but ive never seen 2 opening bowlers bowl cross seam every ball. so good on them for trying something new. i'd say its paying off.
exactly. the rough side isnt heavier at all. next.
oh well, nice edit there.
The rough side is lighter so it goes faster.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:26
Listen you n00bs.
Rough side = air sits in the scratches and dents on the rough side, consquently when the ball is bowled air "sits" in the rough bits.
Shiny side = has to be kept as shiny as possible and as dry as possible, you dont want to coat the ball in buckets of sweat and salvia. Thats why Englands lolly thing worked so well. You didnt have to use much spit to get the ball shiny. The ball has to be kept very dry though otherwise the air wont sit in the pockets.
tell us something new.
we are discussing reverse swing :rolleyes:
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 22:26
Anyone who thinks that putting saliva on the ball to "weight" one side to get it to swing would believe anything.
That theory is something you see under 12's do.
But you're saying the do reverse swing by putting saliva on the shiny side. When that infact is not true. I say that you read that article.
oh so you are now talking about reverse swing again.
Make up your mind Sean.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:27
The rough side is lighter so it goes faster.
yes, that's the case in reverse swing, not orthodox swing, where the weight of both sides is roughly equal
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 22:28
tell us something new.
we are discussing reverse swing :rolleyes:
With reverse swing its exactly as the name suggest.
Normally the rough side slows that side down. But here it is actually speeding that side up.
It is a fine art, the key is the shiny side. Has to be as dry as possible.
LOL at you n00bs thinking that you have to weigh one side of the ball.
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 22:28
Can't wait to go to cricket next Saturday and have our team bowling reverse swing by the 10th over. We'll be unstoppable.
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 22:30
I'm sure you will do great Sean. From what you have displayed in your posts so far in this thread we can see that you have a fine knowledge of the game! :thumbsu:
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:31
But you're saying the do reverse swing by putting saliva on the shiny side. When that infact is not true. I say that you read that article.
if you bother to read the link that YOU posted, you will infact see that they continue to put saliva on the shiny side.
Tetrazzini
18 Oct 2008, 22:31
another possible theory is that the ICC are providing weighted balls for india
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:32
With reverse swing its exactly as the name suggest.
Normally the rough side slows that side down. But here it is actually speeding that side up.
It is a fine art, the key is the shiny side. Has to be as dry as possible.
LOL at you n00bs thinking that you have to weigh one side of the ball.
opposite. the rough side stays as dry as possible. keep up.
Cousin Jed
18 Oct 2008, 22:32
I say the balls are clearly cheating in favour of India, and unless the ICC replaces them we will take our bat and ball and go home immediately.
The plane is already on the tarmac!
With reverse swing its exactly as the name suggest.
Normally the rough side slows that side down. But here it is actually speeding that side up.
It is a fine art, the key is the shiny side. Has to be as dry as possible.
LOL at you n00bs thinking that you have to weigh one side of the ball.
You're putting too much emphasis on the "wet" side of the ball.
The rough side is by far more important. It's why Sean's side won't get reverse swing by 10 overs because his opening bowlers won't bowl cross seam and he is most likely playing on an artificial pitch, meaning it won't rough up as much.
krisholio14
18 Oct 2008, 22:34
The Australians aren't on top in this match. So clearly someone somewhere has to be cheating.
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 22:36
The Australians aren't on top in this match. So clearly someone somewhere has to be cheating.
Well the umpires are cheats or idiots at least once in the game.;)
Maybe we should say we are going home unless he is kicked off the tour.
Really all I want to know is how they have managed it so quickly in the game when teams not cheating can not manage it.
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 22:37
if you bother to read the link that YOU posted, you will infact see that they continue to put saliva on the shiny side.I didn't post it. Deadly Outbreak posted it.
And yes, they put saliva on it, but they don't put it on to weight the ball so it reverse swings. :rolleyes:
The Australians aren't on top in this match. So clearly someone somewhere has to be cheating.
lol that's a good one, funny how it was a road when India were batting and now all of a sudden it's a minefield and India are cheating.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:39
I didn't post it. Deadly Outbreak posted it.
And yes, they put saliva on it, but they don't put it on to weight the ball so it reverse swings. :rolleyes:
haha and it was only a few minutes ago you were arguing the complete opposite.
But you're saying the do reverse swing by putting saliva on the shiny side. When that infact is not true.
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 22:39
The Australians aren't on top in this match. So clearly someone somewhere has to be cheating.We should just do a BCCI and crack the shits and threaten to go home. Get Rudi sacked and burn effiges. I heard you can get Rudi Koertzen effiges at half price.
__aria__
18 Oct 2008, 22:40
In This Thread: Sean knows his cricket and articulates his points very well!
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 22:40
haha and it was only a few minutes ago you were arguing the complete opposite.He he yeah, you got me there. :o
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
18 Oct 2008, 22:41
LOL at the n00bs like Dr Nick who thinks that weighting the ball with salvia gets it to reverse.
Makes eddiesmith and bushrange look like rocket scientists.
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 22:42
I didn't post it. Deadly Outbreak posted it.
And yes, they put saliva on it, but they don't put it on to weight the ball so it reverse swings. :rolleyes:
Hey don't blame me after digging yourself into a hole.
The article is not that great anyway with lots of conjecture on how it happens from before the mint admission leading to leaps of good faith on early reverse swing.
Really all it says is most manage reverse swing at over 40 and Lee got it as over 30 sometimes. Also over 15 if you cheat but should not count.
A jump from over 30 to 9 is a very big leap.
OzBomber
18 Oct 2008, 22:43
Hey don't blame me after digging yourself into a hole.
The article is not that great anyway with lots of conjecture on how it happens from before the mint admission leading to leaps of good faith on what happens.
Really all it says is most manage reverse swing at over 40 and Lee got it as over 30 sometimes. Also over 15 if you cheat but should not count.
A jump from over 30 to 9 is a very big leap.I wasn't blaming you.
I dunno what I was doing, I'm going to bed.
dr nick
18 Oct 2008, 22:43
LOL at the n00bs like Dr Nick who thinks that weighting the ball with salvia gets it to reverse.
Makes eddiesmith and bushrange look like rocket scientists.
dr nick... why does the ball swing when you shine one side?? :D
LOL at the n00bs like Dr Nick who thinks that weighting the ball with salvia gets it to reverse.
Makes eddiesmith and bushrange look like rocket scientists.
He's not arguing that you weigh it down. He's saying you make the rough side light by roughing it up *as they were doing by bowling cross seam*, and the other side needs to be heavier so they had to maintain that by constantly maintaining it.
Well I didn't watch the Aussie innings as I wasn't home, so not sure how this cheating shit has come up. And anyway didn't the spinner get 2 wickets? I doubt he is getting reverses spin. But the way this thread is going about cheating and shit I am sure someone will come up with that theory as well.
The spinner got reverse drift!!!
The spinner got reverse drift!!!
Ohh wow isn't that cheating as well?
Deadly Outbreak
18 Oct 2008, 22:48
He's not arguing that you weigh it down. He's saying you make the rough side light by roughing it up *as they were doing by bowling cross seam*, and the other side needs to be heavier so they had to maintain that by constantly maintaining it.
How are you making the other side heavier without weighting it down with spit/saliva? shining it?
Or is taking small chunks out from one side good enough?
How are you making the other side heavier without weighting it down with spit/saliva? shining it?
Or is taking small chunks out from one side good enough?
The small chunks make the other side lighter through the various "air pockets"
The other side doesn't so much get "heavier" but stays the same. You must saliva it up to keep the ball clean and then you rub it dry.