View Full Version : Stuart Clark over-rated and too old
Last 10 Test matches
Stuart Clark has picked up 34 wickets.
3.4 per match is not good enough to stay in the Australian team in my opinion.
His last 3 tests have been worse only collecting 6 wickets.
Considering he is 33 years old not good enough to come back in and replace 23 year old Peter Siddle who took 4 wickets on a very flat pitch.
And
Who was able to maintain his pace all match at around 140kph unlike Clark who struggles to bowl above 130kph and often drops to around 120kph when he tires.
In their last 10 matches
Current bowlers
Mitchell Johnson has picked up 38 wickets @ 3.8 per match
Brett Lee has picked up 54 wickets @ 5.4 per match
Recently departed bowlers
Glenn McGrath had picked up 38 wickets @ 3.8 per match
Shane Warne had picked up 49 wickets @ 4.9 per match
Andy Bichel had picked up 35 wickets @ 3.5 per match
Last time we had bowlers with figures worse than Clarks for their previous 10 matches we lost the Ashes
Michael Kasprowicz had picked up 28 wickets @ 2.8 per match
Jason Gillespie had picked up 24 wickets @ 2.4 per match
All these figures are available on
http://stats.cricinfo.com/statsguru/engine/stats/index.html
wotdoiput
22 Oct 2008, 13:31
Stopped reading at the title when you couldn't even spell his name correctly.
Stopped reading at the title when you couldn't even spell his name correctly.
Whatever the figures dont lie
yeah nah.
denial board post ?
wotdoiput
22 Oct 2008, 13:38
Whatever the figures dont lie
How about you watch the game sometime and you will see that often they do.
Is Brett Lee the fourth best bowler to play for Australia?? Would not of thought so but the number of wickets he has taken would say he is.
How about you watch the game sometime and you will see that often they do.
Is Brett Lee the fourth best bowler to play for Australia?? Would not of thought so but the number of wickets he has taken would say he is.
Keep listening to the garbage the commentary team feeds you sport.
if we judged guys were dropped forever due to their past 10 matches of mediocre form then im sure we'd run out of players soon enough.
clark is proven at test level.
you're a numpty.
Blue Dimension
22 Oct 2008, 13:42
And yet he's the second best ranked bowler in the world.
Some people have no clue.
wotdoiput
22 Oct 2008, 13:42
Keep listening to the garbage the commentary team feeds you sport.
How about you grow a brain and learn something about thegame before making stupid comments.
if we judged guys were dropped forever due to their past 10 matches of mediocre form then im sure we'd run out of players soon enough.
clark is proven at test level.
you're a numpty.
Ten test matches is year :confused:
Do you just catch the odd the match between world cups ?
wotdoiput
22 Oct 2008, 13:44
And yet he's the second best ranked bowler in the world.
Some people have no clue.
Yeah CLARK is clearly a hack, clearly. Not like he he can tie up one end and cause pressure and the bowlers at the other end Lee, Johnson etc have benefited from this.
If the OP watched the game once he would see how many tests that Clark has been unlucky not to bag more wickets.
How about you grow a brain and learn something about thegame before making stupid comments.
Go back out with your sister and play with the tennis ball
Don't forget your pads and helmut champ
Hate to see you bruised
wotdoiput
22 Oct 2008, 13:47
Go back out with your sister and play with the tennis ball
Don't forget your pads and helmut champ
Hate to see you bruised
Wow so, so hurt by that you are just awesome.
Bit sad that your little thread hasnt been much of a success??
Yeah CLARK is clearly a hack, clearly. Not like he he can tie up one end and cause pressure and the bowlers at the other end Lee, Johnson etc have benefited from this.
If the OP watched the game once he would see how many tests that Clark has been unlucky not to bag more wickets.
Getting a bit emotional there
One of you might surprise me with substance rather than angst soon.
Wow so, so hurt by that you are just awesome.
Bit sad that your little thread hasnt been much of a success??
Big success none of your responses have damaged the point I made in the OP.
wotdoiput
22 Oct 2008, 13:52
How about last 10 tests 32 wickets at 27.77 .... pretty good i would of thought.
Pity the game is not all about stats though.
And yet he's the second best ranked bowler in the world.
Some people have no clue.
Probably the source of the rankings
I notice they also have Shane Bond from New Zealand in the top 10
He has only played 5 test matches since the start of 2006 and has not played any in 2008.
krusden
22 Oct 2008, 14:04
So you've made the statement that encompasses the thread title.
Who the hell do you actually suggest replacing Stu with if he's too old? Siddle on a long-term basis?
How about last 10 tests 32 wickets at 27.77 .... pretty good i would of thought.
Pity the game is not all about stats though.
He is not pulling his weight in the side taking 20 wickets a match.
His average is almost 2 per match below Lee's and Johnson has opened up a noticeable gap on him as well. And both of those guys had the unflattering stats of the Mohali test added to their statistics; Clark didn't.
Looking at his last 5 tests that average is blowing out to above 32.
Plus what is the reason he is not bowling many overs, and that has been happening for a while. Does he lack stamina ?
Is he showing signs of ageing ?
I think he has another 2 or 3 years in the Test team.
potatomasher
22 Oct 2008, 14:18
Clark hardly gets any overs, and when he does, his average has been 27.77, meaning he's bowled pretty well. Ponting might give him more overs now he seems to have realised Lee isn't very good, and he'll be taking more wickets. I'm tipping him to be our leading wicket-taker next test, and at worst, he will get more than 3.4 wickets.
wotdoiput
22 Oct 2008, 14:19
He is not pulling his weight in the side taking 20 wickets a match.
His average is almost 2 per match below Lee's and Johnson has opened up a noticeable gap on him as well. And both of those guys had the unflattering stats of the Mohali test added to their statistics; Clark didn't.
Looking at his last 5 tests that average is blowing out to above 32.
Plus what is the reason he is not bowling many overs, and that has been happening for a while. Does he lack stamina ?
Is he showing signs of ageing ?
Didnt bowl many overs in the first test as he was injured. Is that sign of age? Who knows bowlers get injured all the time.
Not pulling his weight?? Well his job is not only to take wickets which has done, and been unlucky not to take more on some instances, but also to work in partnerships with the other bowlers to build pressure on the batsman so the team can get a wicket... regardless if thats from Clark or Lee.
Should we of dropped Warne when we played in India has he averaged more than 40 against them and they were comfortable playing him?? Nope he was the best we had.
Clark is currently one of the best pace bowling options we have, what he offers is different from Lee, Johnson, Siddle etc...
So you've made the statement that encompasses the thread title.
Who the hell do you actually suggest replacing Stu with if he's too old? Siddle on a long-term basis?
Yes and on a short term and medium term basis.
He will learn quicker in the test team than out of it.
The biggest thing Australia did wrong with Stuart Clark was that we should have picked him in the side 2-3 years earlier.
Leaving a quick bowlers test debut until they are 31 years old is probably leaving it to late. Thank goodness they by-passed Noffke as it would be a short term patch at best.
McDermott, McGrath, Lillee, Thomson, Hughes, Lee, Gillespie, Flemming and Riefell all started in test cricket in their mid-twenties and in McDermotts case late teens.
It has only been the last 6 years that we have been debuting older bowlers.
And considering our current state of being near on bankrupt, it has not been succesful.
You might be able to debut a test batsman like Mike Hussey in their 30's and get 6-7 years out of it. Because batting is far less physically strenuous to the body than pace bowling is.
Didnt bowl many overs in the first test as he was injured. Is that sign of age? Who knows bowlers get injured all the time.
Not pulling his weight?? Well his job is not only to take wickets which has done, and been unlucky not to take more on some instances, but also to work in partnerships with the other bowlers to build pressure on the batsman so the team can get a wicket... regardless if thats from Clark or Lee.
Should we of dropped Warne when we played in India has he averaged more than 40 against them and they were comfortable playing him?? Nope he was the best we had.
Clark is currently one of the best pace bowling options we have, what he offers is different from Lee, Johnson, Siddle etc...
Didn't do much in the last 2 tests in the West Indies either
Took 5 wickets in the West Indies 2nd Innings in the 1st Test but that was on a wicket falling apart where both teams got skittled for under 200 in their second dig's.
Clark hardly gets any overs, and when he does, his average has been 27.77, meaning he's bowled pretty well. Ponting might give him more overs now he seems to have realised Lee isn't very good, and he'll be taking more wickets. I'm tipping him to be our leading wicket-taker next test, and at worst, he will get more than 3.4 wickets.
Well considering 3.4 wickets per test has been his average for the last 10 tests
He would be 50/50 at best, then again he might not play.
Bennycoff
22 Oct 2008, 15:50
Terrible thread. Acker do you even watch cricket or know anything about cricket? Seems unlikely.
You are just a person who looks at the stats and goes "i'm gunna use this today". Ridiculous thread, your saying Clark shouldn't play again because he is 32-33 and only taken 34 wkts in past 10 matches. I think you forget how good a bowler he is. Extremely accurate and would not have got carted like Lee, Johnson and SIddle did last test. He actually puts pressure on something nobody did last test. He's a smart cricketer and will be around til he wants to retire. Very accurate and batsman respect him.
Terrible thread. Acker do you even watch cricket or know anything about cricket? Seems unlikely.
You are just a person who looks at the stats and goes "i'm gunna use this today". Ridiculous thread, your saying Clark shouldn't play again because he is 32-33 and only taken 34 wkts in past 10 matches. I think you forget how good a bowler he is. Extremely accurate and would not have got carted like Lee, Johnson and SIddle did last test. He actually puts pressure on something nobody did last test. He's a smart cricketer and will be around til he wants to retire. Very accurate and batsman respect him.
Reactive post.
If the batsmen respected his accuracy so much he would be a regular in our one day international and T/20 sides which he is not.
Why can't you just argue the point without flying in with a quick attempt at character asassination first ?
Or is that just the way you get your jolly's on the forum ?
Stupid thread... OP clearly has never played the game, and by the sounds of it rarely watches it either.
Clark is a brilliant test bowler and underrated by many in this country... including his captain, who favored MJ most of last summer over Clark.
Real results are behind the ICC rankings, and he is currently ranked #2.
He has struggled in India, but no worse than Brett Lee... who only seems keen to "lead the attack" when conditions suit.
Bennycoff
22 Oct 2008, 16:29
Reactive post.
If the batsmen respected his accuracy so much he would be a regular in our one day international and T/20 sides which he is not.
Why can't you just argue the point without flying in with a quick attempt at character asassination first ?
Or is that just the way you get your jolly's on the forum ?
Hhahahahaha hypocrite.
What are you? Some 12 year old kid with a day off school?
Clark is ranked what number two in the test bowling and has dominated since his debut no matter where. He is our best bowler by some mile including B Lee.
T/20 hahaha that is not even relevant mate.
ODI side he doesn't get a gig as we have Bracken in his place. He is our first bowler picked when someone goes down as seen with Lee.
Belnakor
22 Oct 2008, 16:42
Stupid thread... OP clearly has never played the game, and by the sounds of it rarely watches it either.
Clark is a brilliant test bowler and underrated by many in this country... including his captain, who favored MJ most of last summer over Clark.
Real results are behind the ICC rankings, and he is currently ranked #2.
He has struggled in India, but no worse than Brett Lee... who only seems keen to "lead the attack" when conditions suit.
I heard Punter was told to bowl MJ for his development.
DoubleO7
22 Oct 2008, 17:40
I heard Punter was told to bowl MJ for his development.
True that.
Yep drop the best bowler we have.
Smart idea.
:rolleyes:
Hhahahahaha hypocrite.
What are you? Some 12 year old kid with a day off school?
Clark is ranked what number two in the test bowling and has dominated since his debut no matter where. He is our best bowler by some mile including B Lee.
T/20 hahaha that is not even relevant mate.
ODI side he doesn't get a gig as we have Bracken in his place. He is our first bowler picked when someone goes down as seen with Lee.
I dispute the accuracy of the ranking.
Especially since the same ranking puts New Zealand's Shaun Bond in its top 10 best bowlers and he has only played 5 tests since the start of 2006 and has not played a test match since November 2007.
I mentioned it earlier in the thread but obviously like a lot of things in life, it got around you spider :cool:
Yep drop the best bowler we have.
Smart idea.
:rolleyes:
So the best bowler we have gets 6 wickets in his last 3 tests ?
No idea.
Stupid thread... OP clearly has never played the game, and by the sounds of it rarely watches it either.
Clark is a brilliant test bowler and underrated by many in this country... including his captain, who favored MJ most of last summer over Clark.
Real results are behind the ICC rankings, and he is currently ranked #2.
He has struggled in India, but no worse than Brett Lee... who only seems keen to "lead the attack" when conditions suit.
OP played the game bowled and had a good realisation about what age you should stop bowling pace and try to bowl spin.
Which is around the age Clark is at.
Anyone on this forum who thinks he is going to get fitter, improve, increase stamina, bowl faster or even learn some great new trick at 33 years of age has absolutely NFI.
So the best bowler we have gets 6 wickets in his last 3 tests ?
In his last Test he was bowling injured against an exceptional attack so he obviously can't bowl at his best.
Going by your logic we should drop Lee as he's taken 4 wickets in his last 2 Test matches.
No idea.
I agree, you do have no idea.
Grimwood
22 Oct 2008, 18:35
Clark offers his captain control like no other member of his attack can - a priceless commodity in a time of change and rebuilding in both the spin and seam departments.
In his last Test he was bowling injured against an exceptional attack so he obviously can't bowl at his best.
Going by your logic we should drop Lee as he's taken 4 wickets in his last 2 Test matches.
Its not 3 tests like black hole Stuey, and his running last 10 test average shows he is getting 2 more wickets per test than Clark is.
But if it makes you feel any better I am sure before the next test he will be given a stern talking to.
I dont think he will be doing any off the wall stuff like Clark, such as getting the keeper to stand up to the stumps late in the second innings.
Because Brett has more pride than to look for pitiful excuses chasing this mythical medium pace stumping that some people see through for what it realy is..the bowler cant bowl any quicker than a speedy spinner/ slow medium pacer because they are old and stuffed.
I agree, you do have no idea.
Wow you offer a lot !
Clark offers his captain control like no other member of his attack can - a priceless commodity in a time of change and rebuilding in both the spin and seam departments.
Control :confused:
He didn't get a wicket in the 4th Test Australia v India in Adelaide.
He only dislodged 1 player in the 1st test, a test on day 5 we were trying to win NOT DRAW.
And he is not economical enough to hold his spot in the one day international or T/20 international squad.
He cant keep batsmen economical when he needs to restrict their scoring
and
He is struggling to get wickets when he needs to get wickets.
As I said earlier he WAS a good bowler and we should have picked him 2 years earlier than we did.
He should have bowled in the 2005 Ashes in England. Ahead of Kasprowicz or Gillespie.
But he didn't
Problem is now, age (33yo) has beaten him.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
22 Oct 2008, 18:55
What a load of shit.
Stuart Clark is at his best on Australian wickets and decks with a bit of seam. We have South Africa and England coming up, he will destroy both of these teams.
Im not sure if India suits his style of bowling but id love him to be in the 3rd test team.
Was watching the Ashes 2006/07 Channel 9 DVD last night and he bowled magnificently. Simple plan of aiming to hit the top of off and not bowling to short, making the batsmen play off the front front, the key with this is that only a tiny amount of movement is needed to catch an edge or beat a defensive shot, just a bit of seam or a hint of swing.
Mitchell Johnson and Siddle and Lee could learn a thing or to and realise that hitting back of a length on Indian decks is going to do nothing but give the bowler a sore back.
This is a massive thread of fail.
Despite how many people have said this, I'll say it again. Have you ever played cricket? let alone watched it? Clark is, by a long way, our best bowler atm, even when he is out of form he is still going at around 20% of the wickets per match, and that doesn't take into account whether or not we have even got 20 wickets per match.
You are so far off the mark it's comical, back in your box.
What a load of shit.
Stuart Clark is at his best on Australian wickets and decks with a bit of seam. We have South Africa and England coming up, he will destroy both of these teams.
Im not sure if India suits his style of bowling but id love him to be in the 3rd test team.
Was watching the Ashes 2006/07 Channel 9 DVD last night and he bowled magnificently. Simple plan of aiming to hit the top of off and not bowling to short, making the batsmen play off the front front, the key with this is that only a tiny amount of movement is needed to catch an edge or beat a defensive shot, just a bit of seam or a hint of swing.
Mitchell Johnson and Siddle and Lee could learn a thing or to and realise that hitting back of a length on Indian decks is going to do nothing but give the bowler a sore back.
This is a massive thread of fail.
Despite how many people have said this, I'll say it again. Have you ever played cricket? let alone watched it? Clark is, by a long way, our best bowler atm, even when he is out of form he is still going at around 20% of the wickets per match, and that doesn't take into account whether or not we have even got 20 wickets per match.
You are so far off the mark it's comical, back in your box.
The guys got 82 career test wickets and the pair of you are trying to run him as high up the flagpole as Glenn McGrath who has 600.
Try getting a grip on reality.
Bennycoff
22 Oct 2008, 21:20
S Clark is a gun, end of story. Anyone who thinks he is overrated or crap does not have a clue about cricket.
Acker - Tell me who you rate if you don't rate S Clark?
S Clark is a gun, end of story. Anyone who thinks he is overrated or crap does not have a clue about cricket.
Acker - Tell me who you rate if you don't rate S Clark?
Benny ...I rate him
I just think he should have been selected into the Australian team in 2004 rather than 2006.
My problem now is that he is getting to old, and the guy coming up Siddle is deserving of keeping his place in the team.
Difference of opinion between you and me : Yes
Do I want to have any continued issues with you : No
Very strange topic. Clark is definitely one of our strongest bowlers at the moment and if fit, should definitely be in the team. With an out of form Lee, i think we definitely need him.
Bennycoff
22 Oct 2008, 21:33
Siddle doesn't really deserve a spot yet. He has played 12-13 FC matches and is learning the game. 4 wickets at plenty, yes he showed glimpses, however, Clark deserves his spot more than any other bowler in the team. I'd be reviewing Lee's or Johnson's spot before Clark's. Lee is no spring chicken.
Very strange topic. Clark is definitely one of our strongest bowlers at the moment and if fit, should definitely be in the team. With an out of form Lee, i think we definitely need him.
How fit can he get with the handicap of being 33 years old ?
Siddle doesn't really deserve a spot yet. He has played 12-13 FC matches and is learning the game. 4 wickets at plenty, yes he showed glimpses, however, Clark deserves his spot more than any other bowler in the team. I'd be reviewing Lee's or Johnson's spot before Clark's. Lee is no spring chicken.
Siddle took 9 wickets against NSW which included test players Jaques, Clarke, Haddin, Lee, Casson, Clark and MacGill in the Pura cup final.
Obviously Clark, Lee, Casson and MacGill did not have the same problem as Peter.
Peter also actively sought out a bouncer war against Brett Lee.
In his debut test match Peter Siddle has finished second only to Mitchell Johnson in the best performing Australian test bowlers.
Considering Peter Siddle in his first test match has got more wickets (4) than Stuart Clark has averaged in his last 10 test matches (3.4)
I consider that Peter Siddle should be re-sellected for the 3rd Test India v Australia in Dehli.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
22 Oct 2008, 22:29
For the next test match id just like to see the bowlers operate with a good line and length.
When Lee was taking all those wickets he wasnt taking to take wickets, he was just holding a good line and length on off stump. The advantage of this is that only a small deviation with regards to seam or swing to offer a chance for a wicket.
Lately he seems to be trying to much, trying slower bouncers, trying sucker balls, trying yorkers, his not got that line and length.
A player like Sehwag will eat back of the length bowling all day long, his defensive technique is alright but his attacking shots to full of the length balls have near zero footwork which basically means a bit of movement and his gone.
The bowlers should go out and there aim to go for less then 3 an over, do that and the wickets will come.
Jimthegreat
22 Oct 2008, 22:40
Getting a bit emotional there
One of you might surprise me with substance rather than angst soon.Mate, you're a sh1t dribbler.
aussie1st
23 Oct 2008, 05:40
Sharma last 10 test has seen him get an average of 3.3 wicket a match. So I guess India should drop him too?
You don't retire one of the best bowlers in the world after he struggles with an injury in the first test of a tour, and then misses the second. Talk about premature. Maybe we should just automatically put our players to pasture as soon as they hit turn 33.
Imagine what our team would look like if the BF cricket forum were selecting (out: Hayden, Clarke, Katich, Watson, Haddin, Lee, Clark, give captaincy to Hussey, In: Henriques, Hilfenhaus, Warne, ummmmmm). Oops i mentioned Clark's name twice...
You don't retire one of the best bowlers in the world after he struggles with an injury in the first test of a tour, and then misses the second. Talk about premature. Maybe we should just automatically put our players to pasture as soon as they hit turn 33.
Imagine what our team would look like if the BF cricket forum were selecting (out: Hayden, Clarke, Katich, Watson, Haddin, Lee, Clark, give captaincy to Hussey, In: Henriques, Hilfenhaus, Warne, ummmmmm). Oops i mentioned Clark's name twice...
Hahaha, well said.
Saves me from thinking up of a response.
I agree with Acker, get rid of him and put Bracken in.
And get rid of Lee, put Shaun Tait in.
Bennycoff
23 Oct 2008, 15:18
Still worst thread ever.
Sharma last 10 test has seen him get an average of 3.3 wicket a match. So I guess India should drop him too?
He is 13 years younger than Clark.
Still worst thread ever.
Pup Clarke has a test bowling average of 25
In line your admiration of Clarks average, ,should we abandon our search for a spinner and just let Pup fully take it on ?
You don't retire one of the best bowlers in the world after he struggles with an injury in the first test of a tour, and then misses the second. Talk about premature. Maybe we should just automatically put our players to pasture as soon as they hit turn 33.
...
The guy has got 82 career wickets and has had a pretty ordinary last 12 months...he is a long way short of being one of the best in the world.
And if you look around you will notice fast bowlers retire at a considerably younger age than batsmen or spinners.
He is getting too old. And he aint no Glenn McGrath.
doggiesin08
23 Oct 2008, 15:55
How bout we play them both and drop White?
Made4September
23 Oct 2008, 16:05
Its truly a shame that some people think that stats are all there is to cricket. Perhaps witnessing a game in person every now and again would rectify this.
At the local level, i have a div1 a grade bowling average of 3, but really, it means nothing... (Especially considering my aggregate of 2 wickets)
The Art of Bowling has more components to it than wickets, runs and overs, and for the most ideal grasp of it, people need to understand this.