View Full Version : Canberra is NOT a branch office of the Swans
Bloodstained Angel
2 Mar 2001, 03:55
In the 'Canberra will fail' thread started by DEVO, Daphne made a comment about how she felt that the Canberra footballing scene seems to be dominated by Swans fans and that she wasn't sure that there would be enough support for the Kangaroos (or anyone else for that matter) to justify any serious re-location plans.
Daphne - appearances can be deceptive. Canberrans are NOT Swans fans, and in fact resent being characterised as such. Yes, there are alot of Swans fans in Canberra but Canberra is most definitely NOT a Swans town.
In fact Canberrans bridle at the thought of being labelled as such. Canberra is an Aussie Rules town which has had a vibrant and strong footballing culture for many years now. Canberrans were footy mad long before the Swans even moved to Sydney in 1982.
Canberra is itching to get into the AFL with a team they can call their own and a team that can set them apart from Sydney, they are sick to death of being lumped in with the Swans all the time, and if they had their own team then this would set up a powerful and bitter rivalry between the two cities, much like what happens in the Rugby codes nowadays.
Footy needs these kinds of rivalries.
Such a team COULD be a fully re-located Kangaroos but I stress FULLY re-located. Flying in for a couple of games, grabbing the cash and flying back down to Melbourne whilst all the time calling yourselves 'North Melbourne' is just not the way to go.
Canberrans will not turn out in big numbers to watch North Melbourne.
But they will flock to Manuka Oval in their 1000's to watch the Canberra Kangaroos because it will be THEIR team and will really give them something to cheer about.
At last Canberrans will be able to command the respect that is due to them from the rest of the footballing community, instead of being dismissed as a branch office of the Swans, or, even worse, a city of Rugby fans.
cheers
[This message has been edited by Bloodstained Angel (edited 01 March 2001).]
So how many supporters will Canberra be able to get for the Canberra Kangaroos. I can just imagine Kingy, Arch, Carey,Grant and a few others living up in Canberra. If they went up there you would have to be certain that they would be able to keep this team going forever, not just a flash in the pan thing, you would probably only keep about 8,ooo supporters here in Melb, as I think you would find that they could not cope with the fact that their team has left the State. You would have even smaller crowds when they play in Melb. Interstate teams that come to Melb always have small crowds (most anyway) I just cannot see how this will work. And yet if another team went to Canberra then that would make more room for us here. Anyway I think that we may have five years up our sleeves to work this out.
Daphne, If you think we have five years, think again. It's that kind of attitude that has seen clubs like Fitzroy and South Sydney (NRL) forcably removed from their respective leagues. For the future of the Kangaroos, the tough decisions need to be made NOW.
Regarding Carey, if the Kangaroos moved to Canberra it may prolong his career with the club, because its only a few hours drive to Wagga Wagga. And with Carey secure, I'm sure we can attract the level of player required to stay near the top in the league.
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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO
Rooboy 96
2 Mar 2001, 06:10
So DEVO... just a quick question can Canberra supply 25000 members week in week out???
No, but we haven't been very successful in doing in Melbourne either.
Originally posted by DEVO:
Daphne, If you think we have five years, think again. It's that kind of attitude that has seen clubs like Fitzroy and South Sydney (NRL) forcably removed from their respective leagues. For the future of the Kangaroos, the tough decisions need to be made NOW.
Regarding Carey, if the Kangaroos moved to Canberra it may prolong his career with the club, because its only a few hours drive to Wagga Wagga. And with Carey secure, I'm sure we can attract the level of player required to stay near the top in the league.
To work it out Devo, to work it out, thats what I said. I always love it when people say "with that kind of attitued". Do you thing that you are the only one who is concerned for our club and that the rest of us are just burying our heads in the sand. Canberra is not the only answer to our survival there are other options. Options that will have to be worked out and hopefully we take the right one. Unfortunately I cant see that Wayne driving 2hrs from Wagga Wagga is going to prolong his career as opposed to driving 15min from where he lives now or flying 50min by air. And I cant see Wayne being a part of the picture in Canberra anyhow. But i suppose he could become Prime Minister.
Originally posted by DEVO:
No, but we haven't been very successful in doing in Melbourne either.
Well do you think that the club are just saying that we have 25,ooo members, we increase this each year, so what are you talking about then?
Not in Melbourne you don't, and I don't think you ever will.
[This message has been edited by DEVO (edited 01 March 2001).]
Daphne, I'd never accuse anyone of not being a fan, or showing concern for their footy club. What I am saying is, it's time for the Kangaroos supporters in Melbourne to bite the bullet and prepare themselves for whatever might evenuate, whether it's moving to Canberra or Sydney, merging with Carlton or Essendon or ending our association with the league.
Traditional values are important and I'd like to see North keep as many of them as possible, but we have to be prepared to sacrifice some of them as well and it appears (from your tirades) that you, Rooboy and a few others are not willing to do so. Quite amazing really when we've always been seen as such an innovative club.
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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO
Rooboy 96
2 Mar 2001, 08:36
Devo... I am of the opinion that we have given enough... with not much in return... we won't be able to watch our interstate games soon... without cable...
so as far as I am concerned if we are going to die I say let us die with dignity... just for interest I don't think we will die... I believe many other Vic Clubs are in worse shape then us... and a one year loss is really no reason to walk the plank... and allow fear to control your thinking...
Devo... one more small question... if North stay in Melbourne will they still be your team??? the answer to this question we determine how much validity I give to you in future postson this matter...
Bloodstained Angel
2 Mar 2001, 08:44
An AFL team based permanently in Canberra, playing 11 Home games a year at Manuka Oval, and incorporating the word 'Canberra' would have no trouble attracting a membership of 20,000 and regularly selling out Manuka (capacity around 18,000)
Remember 1998 ?
North played two games there against opposition that wasn't exactly a big draw card - they sold out the oval both times with minimal effort by way of promotion, etc.
It would be the same for any club wishing to relocate there.
In Rugby, both the Canberra Raiders and ACT Brumbies have little trouble filling Bruce Stadium, week in, week out. The Brumbies especially averaged over 19,000 per game in 2000.
If Thugby can attract these crowds in a city that is traditionally been an Aussie Rules stronghold, then just think about what an AFL club permanently located in the Capital could achieve ?
The sky is the limit - literally
cheers
I've been a North supporter since I was 4. I'll remain a North supporter until the day I die, and if they die before me, I will give up on AFL altogether, because I can't imagine supporting another club with the passion I do the Roos.
Rooboy, can I just say, that I would prefer North to play in Melbourne under the banner of the North Melbourne Kangaroos, but under the current climate, and with costs skyrocketing, I don't think that will remain possible for much longer. Thats why I have been talking up the possibility of a move to Canberra, and Nationalizing (is there such a word) our brand.
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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO
[This message has been edited by DEVO (edited 01 March 2001).]
BSA
A membership of 20000 and filling a stadium with 18000 people is going backwards from the membership/crowd figures that we have at the moment. These current figures have put us under the pump, why would less numbers make us any more viable??
Cheers
Gonzo
The invisible mullet
2 Mar 2001, 09:10
As a Canberran I would love to see the capital have it's own AFL team but I think the horse has bolted, to an extent, and such a team may not be viable (or, at least, requires more work to establish its viability). While Canberra was an aussie rules town, it was also a rugby union town (and the rugby union on offer now is of an international standard). The real outsiders were league but they are well established after close to 20 years in the premier competition. Likewise the rugby is also well established.
BSA is nonetheless right that Canberra isn't a local branch of the Swans. A number of AFL sides have had large followings for years (the pies, tiges and hawks come to mind as well as the roos). The advantage the Roos have is in having a link with the strongest ACT club and by playing a number of games here over the last couple of years. I'd like to see North consider playing all of their matches against inter state teams in Canberra (or a mix of the inter state and crowd-weak Melbourne sides) but I believe the Roos should still play a majority of their games out of Melbourne.
The simple fact is there is not enough people in canberra to support any more national sporting teams. we already have about 12 national teams in various leagues and even they are struggling for crowds. take the cosmos for example. they regularly get crowds of no more than 2000. the cannons and the raiders are also lacking crowd support, not to mention the bloody comets. the only team in canberra that regularily gets good crowds is the brumbies and thats only because they win. there is no way a city of only 350,000 people can support that many teams. sure you would get decent crowds to afl matches but only until the novelty wares off, then they would just be another team begging canberras population to support there team.
Hmmmmm
The invisible mullet
2 Mar 2001, 09:52
unfortunately this is true. A limited number of games will be successful - ie 4 premiership games a year.
Rooboy 96
2 Mar 2001, 10:55
Thanks DEVO... I had rolled my sleeves up and was starting to take my jacket off...
Hmmmm, where are you from??? No one supports the Cosmos because they are crap and have been crap since day one. No one supports the Cannons because they play in Belconnen, and most Basketball supporters live in Tuggeranong (yes we are that lazy!!). The Capitals (WNBL Champions) have increased their support by at least 50% since their move to Tuggeranong, although Lauren Jackson may have something to do with that as well. As for an AFL side, the best available ground in Canberra is Manuka, which is near the centre of Canberra and is easily assessable from all regions. It's just a shame the bus service wasn't all that good last week, because we may have got another thousand or so to the game.
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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO
If Manuke had been full on Saturday then I would say that there was a possibility of going to Canberra. If I really enjoyed watching AFL then it wouldnt matter who was playing I would be there. It will be interesting to see what sort of crowd turns up this weekend, If it is a sellout then I say Canberra is not for us. I have always been behind my team whatever they decide, but after Sydney I am loathed to see them go anywhere else. I have always said whatever it takes, but I am slowly changing my mind. Sending the team up to Sydney to cop the abuse they got up there was hard to take last year, there were not enough people there to support our boys last year.
Carey_is_King
2 Mar 2001, 14:16
As Gonzo has said, 20,000-odd members would not be an improvement. Let us also remember that we get the gate money from home games only, so playing in a ground with limited capacity automatically limits our potential to improve that income stream.
I also agree with someone who said you can't be flying in to grab the cash, whilst still calling yourself North Melbourne. All in all I think the interstate push is crap, and will not be the salvation we need. As each year goes past, more and more Melbourne-based members are dropping off.
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Trample the Weak,
Hurdle the Dead.
choppyhard
2 Mar 2001, 14:44
Got a 'postscript' from the club today in the mail. I quote from this article
"Remember Canberra games will be a sell out and ticketing arrangements should be made early"
Not sure if this wishful thinking or fact.
There is simply not enough people in canberra to support an AFL club. 350 thousand compared to Melbourne 10 clubs 3.5 million. The numbers cannot add up in Canberra.
I think 3 or 4 games maxiumum in Canberra, against interstate clubs ie Port, Freo, Brisbane, etc. If they can attract 18,000, must be financially better then attracting 18,000 in Melbourne at the G or Colonial where no profit is made.
Aussie_Roo
2 Mar 2001, 14:56
First of all, I am a Melbourne based supporter and like everyone here, I would love for the Kangaroos to remain in Melbourne forever, and play all their home games in Melbourne. However, more importantly I want my kids to be able to go to the footy (albeit maybe for a couple of games of year) in 20 years time to see their beloved Roos. For this to happen we only have two options - to spilt our home games evenly between Canberra and Melbourne, or as a last resort fully reallocate to Canberra.
Canberra is an 'AFL town', you only have the Brumbies and Raiders competing for the almighty corporate $$. In Melbourne, there are 10 teams plus the Storm all vying for the same market - it's too crowded. We battle to keep our major sponsors ie: they change every 2-3 years (I think Smokefree have indicated that this is their final year as well).
Membership - there aren't 25,000 members in Melbourne. How many people buy more than one membership just to help the club out? I know I do, and with the sponsors that we do have - how many memberships do we give them as part of their packages? I would be guessing, but I'd say as a minimum 10 -20. Going by the records we have 2000 odd members based in NSW. It's easy to say that we have attracted a lot of kids due to our success and our junior membership is high, but it will do us no good if we aren't around.
We still keep our tradition as the North Melbourne Football Club and nobody can take that away, but the North Melbourne Football Club in its current format will not survive. For us to continue, all Melbourne based supporters must embrace the name change to the Kangaroos.
iron mike
2 Mar 2001, 16:05
Originally posted by Daphne:
Well do you think that the club are just saying that we have 25,ooo members, we increase this each year, so what are you talking about then?
I love the kangas, so i am not being a smartar*e. this is too important.
but the truth is this. we had record membership levels and still made a million dollar loss.
and the nth vs freo game this year. only 13,000 members bothered to turn up. and i will add, i was one of them
and if the club has made such a big loss, where is the club going to find the funding to upgrade arden st?
i would understand if the club relocated to canberra, as long as they keep the history, guernsey, song and mascot.
as least they wouldnt have to struggle for survival.
besides, you still would get to see them about 7 times in melbourne, and every other weekend on tv.
It's obvious that everybody loves the Roos, and wants to see them in the competition in twenty/thirty years time. What's important is that everybody supports the club in what ever direction they take, whether it's in Melbourne, Canberra or where ever.
I for one will continue to support the mighty Kangaroos, and to wear the colours with pride.
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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO
[This message has been edited by DEVO (edited 02 March 2001).]
Bloodstained Angel
3 Mar 2001, 03:25
Here here
Anyone gloating about a club (any club) in trouble and having problems staying in the League need to take a good long hard look at themselves.
Are you listening Carlton people ? (especially you John Elliott)
cheers
Devo, if the only reason people dont go to cosmos games is that they are crap whats to say the same wont happen to an afl club. as soon as north start to lose a few games (all good things must come to an end!) crowd numbers will drop. if only 8000 turn up to watch a novelty afl game imagine how many would turn up after the novelty has worn off and the team is loseing?? 1 to 2 thousand is my guess.
Btw how bloody lazy are you southsiders if you cant even travel 25 minutes (max.) to get to a game!!??
Its scary going up North...who knows we may get lost. Also Bruce Stadium is an ugly place to watch sport from. Both the indoor and outdoor arenas. Saying that when the Capitals play the Final and Grand Final (both against Dandenong, and both comfortable victories) you can bet ya balls I'll be there.
Go CAPS, Go SHARPIE, GO ROOS
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Are We Not Men
We Are DEVO