View Full Version : International Aboriginal Players
Are there any Aboriginal cricketers coming thru state or grade level, or in the academy? And if not, why not? I dont think I recall ever seeing any in the past either.
Is Cricket Australia even doing anything proactive about this? I'm not sure what programs/academies exist in NZ and SAF, but both those cricketing nations have a lot more indigenous players coming thru the system in grade, first class and international levels.
There was like an Aboriginal team back in the early 20th Century. That seems like something is wrong in Australian cricket that it's now 2008 and we dont even have any focus or effort in bringing these guys along instead of seeing them all go to Rugby League and Australian Football.
I thought Haydos talked of something about bringing in a program with the aims to get an indigenous player playing international cricket.
The Reaper
1 Feb 2009, 19:21
There is a tournament for aboriginal players
Don't ask me to spell the name
you got to realise that 80% of the South African pop is black and thus it is inevitable that some will play
Selective Retention
1 Feb 2009, 19:38
I think the aboriginal population is 2-3% and something like 10% of the AFL are aboriginals. Forget cricket, push soccer into the aboriginal communities, we'd be a chance at the world cup then.
If they were proportionally similar in first class cricket to the overall population, there'd only be 1 or 2 floating around.
A lot more Maoris (by %) in NZ and a hell of a lot more blacks in South Africa.
Good point about soccer.
Ok, cricket AND soccer should be far more effort and money thrown into developing them.
Bradesmaen
1 Feb 2009, 20:40
If they are good enough they will play, don't see why we have to throw money at them, it'll just end up having a quota system like South Africa and that is more detrimental than good.
Also, while that's true about the population difference, the point is is there even ONE cricketer or soccer player? We've always got like hundreds in the AFL and RL.
The whole NT could be brought into the australian domestic scene where it's a full aboriginal team. That would see them more in the spotlight and aim for a career in cricket/soccer.
Selective Retention
1 Feb 2009, 20:53
Jade North captained the olyroos in Beijing. Travis Dodd captained Adelaide United in the asian champs league and perhaps had the armband for a short while in one of the all a-league socceroos squads under Arnold. Looking at a lot of the AFL players you'd have to think that there would be a few that would be more than handy soccer players if they grew up with it.
Id have to agree that Australia would give world soccer a big shake if we brought them along into it more. Naturally "uncoached" too.
They'd do great at cricket too tho. Just seems baffling that after 100 years or more there's only an AR/RL avenue. Or that we've not done more in the other sports.
Admiral Afterworld
1 Feb 2009, 22:41
For whatever reasons cricket in Australia has long been a rather 'Anglo-Celtic' thing.
For whatever reasons, football and rugby league have had far more success in diversifying their player base.
Perhaps money is a big factor? Cricket does require a number of objects to be played where as football and rugby league don't.
I suspect though (and I don't actually know for sure so if anyone wants to correct me knock yourself out) that cricket has long been seen as a 'white' sport by aboriginals and thus few have played much less ever gone on to international heights.
XFactor1979
1 Feb 2009, 22:45
jason gillespie is an aborginal
delirious1
1 Feb 2009, 22:55
Cricket is percieved as a white mans sport, and Soccer is full of "ethnics" Problem is that no aborigional role models in either sport to get young kids to kick a soccer bowl or pick up a bat.
Plus football is a huge cultural thing, kind of like islanders with Rugby
red+black
1 Feb 2009, 23:52
Is this another push to get Symonds back in the team?
Admiral Afterworld
2 Feb 2009, 00:35
Is this another push to get Symonds back in the team?
Symonds is of Afro-Caribbean ancestry, so presumably not.
pinkus maximus
2 Feb 2009, 00:50
jason gillespie is an aborginal
No he isn't
Bradesmaen
2 Feb 2009, 01:03
No he isn't
Yes he is.
The great-grandson of a Kamilaroi warrior, Gillespie occupies a significant niche in Australian history as the first acknowledged Aboriginal Test cricketer.
Cricinfo staff February 2008
That's still a poor effort that Gillepsie is all Australian cricket has done to push the game, and do whatever they can to increase Aboriginal involvment. For instance, look at what AFL does to promote the game to indigenous youth, or how desperately they throw money into GC and Sydney expansion. Cricket isn't desperate, but there's a goldmine of great talent out there, same goes with soccer.
red+black
2 Feb 2009, 01:19
Symonds is of Afro-Caribbean ancestry, so presumably not.
No way! Symonds is not aboriginal? Next you'll tell me he's not even Australian!
:p
krisholio14
2 Feb 2009, 01:23
That's still a poor effort that Gillepsie is all Australian cricket has done to push the game, and do whatever they can to increase Aboriginal involvment. For instance, look at what AFL does to promote the game to indigenous youth, or how desperately they throw money into GC and Sydney expansion. Cricket isn't desperate, but there's a goldmine of great talent out there, same goes with soccer.
If they are good enough, and want it enough, they will make it, with or without help.
pinkus maximus
2 Feb 2009, 01:23
Yes he is.
I could have sworn I heard him in an an interview say he wasn't aboriginal
If they are good enough, and want it enough, they will make it, with or without help.
True, but Cricket Australia could be doing a lot more. You cant as a sporting organization, in a very competitive Australian sporting market (for youth), just sit on your hands.
XFactor1979
2 Feb 2009, 09:41
http://content-aus.cricinfo.com/australia/content/player/5392.html
The great-grandson of a Kamilaroi warrior, Gillespie occupies a significant niche in Australian history as the first acknowledged Aboriginal Test cricketer.
True, but Cricket Australia could be doing a lot more. You cant as a sporting organization, in a very competitive Australian sporting market (for youth), just sit on your hands.
cricket is a game that may not have the appeal like soccer and football of being able to run with the ball and show a bit of flair.
why dont you do something about it rather then just posting your concerns on a internet forum....
Admiral Afterworld
2 Feb 2009, 11:11
If Jason Gillespie counts as Aboriginal then I count as Chinese :eek:
Belnakor
2 Feb 2009, 11:16
Cricket doesn't really reward explosive pace or agility, its playing to a gameplan and being mentally strong. If you take out the aboriginals advantages in that, they are always going to struggle with only 1% of the population.
Bodicifer
2 Feb 2009, 11:39
When I played with the Vic's under 17's and 19's we played against the NT who probably only had a third of their players who were noticably of Aboriginal background. They tend to be more attracted by footy than cricket. Matty Hayden is looking at ways to develop cricket further in the Aboriginal communities. Cricket Australia do put in and aren't sitting on their hands. They'll also give support to Haydos. The Imparja Cup is also played by those with an Aboriginal background. There are some good cricketers but I've never come across a future star with an aboriginal background. AFL is generally a better fit and is easier for the kids to pick up.
nah
Aboriginals excel at those types of sports where you can benefit from being nimble and can use explosive physical movement and creativity. That's why some have done really well in soccer and aust rules.
Aboroginals don't do so well in sports that require technical precision, like golf and cricket (batting). That's my view.
Cricket is so anglo that sport does nothing to entice wogs like me to be interested. Just look at the names on the Aust line-up. All skip names. No italians. No ethnics. Cricket needs to broaden its appeal otherwise it will die a slow death and only appeal to white bogans and indian immigrants.
i dont necessarily agree at all that aboriginals couldnt or arent suited to the style of game that is cricket. indians, sri lankans, maoris, africans and west indians, etc etc, are all able to if they get into it enough.
still, its good to hear Hayden wanting to do something about it. and i also remember chappelli making a similar speech during an alan border medal night.
the standard on nitv answers a few of these questions.
plus there's more spots on an AFL team/list, compared to a cricket team.
nah
Aboriginals excel at those types of sports where you can benefit from being nimble and can use explosive physical movement and creativity. That's why some have done really well in soccer and aust rules.
Aboroginals don't do so well in sports that require technical precision, like golf and cricket (batting). That's my view.
Cricket is so anglo that sport does nothing to entice wogs like me to be interested. Just look at the names on the Aust line-up. All skip names. No italians. No ethnics. Cricket needs to broaden its appeal otherwise it will die a slow death and only appeal to white bogans and indian immigrants.
Italy have a national team now :p
nah
Aboriginals excel at those types of sports where you can benefit from being nimble and can use explosive physical movement and creativity. That's why some have done really well in soccer and aust rules.
Aboroginals don't do so well in sports that require technical precision, like golf and cricket (batting). That's my view.
Cricket is so anglo that sport does nothing to entice wogs like me to be interested. Just look at the names on the Aust line-up. All skip names. No italians. No ethnics. Cricket needs to broaden its appeal otherwise it will die a slow death and only appeal to white bogans and indian immigrants.
Currently Batticciotto, previoulsy Divenuto and Scuderi have been very good state players, Divenuto wore the Australian colours in a few ODI's.
Doroupoulos over in WA and Kasprowicz is from a polish background and Pascoe was from a Croation one i think.
Richard Chee Quee also played many years for NSW.
Your point is made but their are guys out there who have done it.
In relation to indigenousness players, the game probably damaged its reputation in the 30s when lacking fast bowlers Eddie Gilbert was denied a spot in the national team despite being well reported as the best around.
Aboriginals probably turned away from the game at this point.
The ICC should pressure Australia
The ICC should pressure Australia
What a silly thing to say.
Australia just need to concentrate on finding the best talent in the country and developing that.
And a fair few Aboriginals do play cricket, it's just by the time they are in their late teens, they lose interest in it.
themuddy#3
3 Feb 2009, 17:17
I thought Haydos talked of something about bringing in a program with the aims to get an indigenous player playing international cricket.
We do not need racial prejudice to take part in our selection.
Hayden should not try and get somebody selected only on their ethnic background.
All this "sorry day " bullshit has spawned more hypocrisy than solace.
The day people are not looked upon first and foremost by their ethnic background is the day the world takes a step forward.
:thumbsd:
Freo Big Fella
3 Feb 2009, 18:01
The ICC should pressure Australia
Should they also pressure India and the West Indies to include white players? They'd be a percentage-equivalent minority to Indigenous Australians.
Is Cricket Australia ACTUALLY trying to increase Aboriginal exposure to the game? Trying to tap into that whole talent pool? Spending tons of money like say the AFL in Sydney? No. This is what I meant. Not forcing selections into cricket teams, but pushing them to develop and not neglect that aspect.
happy_eagle
3 Feb 2009, 21:50
Imparja cup ?
Or am i thinking of footy
Joe Mama
3 Feb 2009, 21:58
The reason why we don't see many Aboriginal cricketers is best described (paraphrased by me because I can't remember the exact quote, but I do know the jist of it) by the late Sir Douglas Nichols (who excelled in a number of sports, including cricket), "...the reason why I chose football is because you don't need a lot of equipment to play it..".
And considering that footy only needs a ball and some empty space, it's something that can be played by people with little means (such as it was back in Sir Doug's day, and now in some isolated communities).
Also, he went onto say that you can make a few bob doing it if your good enough (something you can only do with cricket if you're at the elite), but you can make some money even at a local level.
Simply it is financial (and cultural) why we don't see more Aboriginal players.
That's a fair response Wayde. But still, that's part of the bargain in funding and developing the game. Providing the equipment, coaching, camps, teams, club houses. Just because they're not generally interested in it due to sociopoitical reasons or type of slow-moving game it is, doesnt mean Cricket Australia should not bother either.
What Im kinda trying to find out too is if Cricket Australia actually IS doing something at all, funding, camps, teams, coaching, etc? Making attempts? Or not at all?
Bradesmaen
4 Feb 2009, 01:36
The ICC should pressure Australia
Why? We may be ethnically diverse, but if people don't want to take up the game why should we force them? Cricket is a nationwide sport and if the Aboriginal people wanted to take it up more than footy they would have. GG - you say some stupid stuff sometimes.
I have my good and bad moments like anyone else.
Admittedly, Im usually on song (haha)
Still, I think I have a point tho that Cricket Australia could do more than whatever they're doing. I'd really like to know if they're doing anything at all.
Bradesmaen
4 Feb 2009, 02:13
I have my good and bad moments like anyone else.
Admittedly, Im usually on song (haha)
Still, I think I have a point tho that Cricket Australia could do more than whatever they're doing. I'd really like to know if they're doing anything at all.
To be honest, I don't think anymore funding or help is needed.. it should just be natural, instead of trying to push it. If the people want to take up the game, they will - its not like they don't know about it at all.
To be honest, I don't think anymore funding or help is needed.. it should just be natural, instead of trying to push it. If the people want to take up the game, they will - its not like they don't know about it at all.
That's a fair comment. Cant argue with that. Just i dont think it's a good situation really. C.A. shouldn't have a passe fob-offish attitude towards indigenous people. I mean, what would be wrong with the idea to try to EMBRACE them more, or do more to help them EMBRACE cricket more?
There's always this pressure around all sports in australia, everyone trying to fight for more youth involvement numbers etc.
TassieSaint
4 Feb 2009, 20:46
Cricket is so anglo that sport does nothing to entice wogs like me to be interested. Just look at the names on the Aust line-up. All skip names. No italians. No ethnics. Cricket needs to broaden its appeal otherwise it will die a slow death and only appeal to white bogans and indian immigrants.
Hilfenhaus, Krejza, Hauritz, Ronchi, Pomersbach, Henriques, Doropolous, Batticciotto etc. Yep all skip names there
Joe Mama
5 Feb 2009, 21:58
That's a fair response Wayde. But still, that's part of the bargain in funding and developing the game. Providing the equipment, coaching, camps, teams, club houses. Just because they're not generally interested in it due to sociopoitical reasons or type of slow-moving game it is, doesnt mean Cricket Australia should not bother either.
What Im kinda trying to find out too is if Cricket Australia actually IS doing something at all, funding, camps, teams, coaching, etc? Making attempts? Or not at all?
I know that they're doing a lot of Milo Have A Go cricket within indigenous communities, but if there's no bedrock of support to build on that initial interest, then there's no real solid foundation to build on,unlike Aussie Rules & Rugby League that have always had solid support in indigenous communities, but they (CA) have been trying with the likes of the Imparja Cup tournament in Alice Springs.
The results will take a lot longer that what the NRL & AFL have produced because they have had the right conditions, Cricket doesn't so it's going to be a longer process, but if they keep doing what they're doing now and doing more at a junior level (like an Imparja Cup Junior competition), it might bear fruit, but it will be a generational result.
Thx again for the reply. I wasnt aware of those programs CA have set up.
I'll read up on those programs.
But for what it's worth, I do agree the cultural thing is a factor.
Badesumofu
7 Feb 2009, 02:21
I don't see why every sport needs to put money into getting Aboriginals playing. The proportion of Aboriginal Test players is about right given the population. They are substantially over-represented in AFL. Some sports appeal more to some cultures than others. Cricket has too much standing around waiting, doesn't reward raw athleticism and burst speed in the way that footy does.
You go out into the Aboriginal communities and try to sell them a game that requires lots of not-inexpensive equipment, and is nearly 50% standing where you're told waiting.
This is true about cricket, unfortunately. Too much standing around. Well, I was just curious about it all. But I guess soccer is the better sport there to tap into. We'd win the WC for sure one day.