Rank the Players for 2003 [Archive]

Kane McGoodwin

13 Nov 2002, 17:56

Whilst it is a difficult process to rank the players in order of importance, I thought I would have go at putting them in to groups:

Group 1 - Our Gun Players who we need to fire most weeks to have a good year
Carey
Goodwin
Hart
McLeod
Riccuito
Stevens

Group 2 - Critical 2nd tier players who are critical for our success to support our gun players
Bassett
Bickley
Biglands
Bode
Clarke
Edwards
Ladhams
Smart
Stenglein
Welsh

Group 3 - Players who we should expect further development from (most consistency wise) & hope they progress group 2 player standard
Burns
Burton
Crowell
Doughty
Gallagher
Johnstiffy
Massie
Mattner
McGregor
Torney

Group 4 - Youngsters who hope to break into the side
Bock
Hentschel
Reilly
Rutten
Schuback
Smith

Group 5 - Players who need to improve in a big way to stay on our list for 2004
Marsh
Nelson
Perrie
Schell

DaveW

13 Nov 2002, 18:06

I hope another one of our midfielders becomes a real gun next year, directly replacing Johnson. Maybe Bode or Ladhams? Edwards is almost a gun already.

The player from the 3rd group I'd most like to see step up to the 2nd group is McGregor, as our first choice CHB he's going to be pretty important.

noddy

13 Nov 2002, 18:23

I would just about elevate Tyson Edwards up to a group one player now otherwise your spot on Kane,

If all players were fit & well [touch wood] it would be a very difficult job on selection night for Ayresy & the boys,

Kane McGoodwin

13 Nov 2002, 18:30

I agree Edwards is nearly a tier-1 player, but not quite a matchwinner like the others IMO. Other players who could step up further to replace Sugar are Stenglein & Ladhams. Gags could be the suprise packet on the wing. Also Dave, if McGregor can hold down CHB that would allow us to be more potent with Stevo & Carey up front. As Noddy mentioned selection will be much tougher next year as we appear to have much more depth now.

Spogs

13 Nov 2002, 19:28

I see Carey as a bonus player and would have him at level 2. It wasn't critical he fire last year so next year is no different.

I'd elevate Biglands to level 1. He's very underated as a ruckmen but it's his delivery to our onballers that really sets our midfeild alight. A number of times last year we really missed him when Clark went on the ball.

As DaveW said we need another midfeilder to step up. I'd love to see us draft Jade Sheedy but otherwise Doughty or Gallagher must step up.

Good list though.

macca23

13 Nov 2002, 22:43

Top effort, Kane. Hard to disagree with how you have ranked them.

Agree with the general comments on moving up a tier for Biglands, Mcgregor and another midfielder to replace Johnson. That could be Edwards now we have Torney for the backlines and I would see Bickley playing down back a bit more in 2003.

Those 4 group 5 players are very very lucky to still be there when you consider what we delisted. Apart from those 4 the list looks good, with a mixture of proven and promising players - the right recipe for a premiership!!! Go Crows!!

topjars

14 Nov 2002, 17:03

Good Ppost Kane.
At first glance I would have Clarke and Biglands in the Group 1
After all you must win the Rucks to give your team the best chance.

The rest is great.

The more that play in Group 1 on the day the better the team effort will be.

Kane McGoodwin

14 Nov 2002, 19:11

So is anyone going to attempt listing players from 1 to 30 whatever have on our list??

DaveW

14 Nov 2002, 20:05

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
So is anyone going to attempt listing players from 1 to 30 whatever have on our list??
I could give it a go but I'd have to leave out group 4.

MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl

14 Nov 2002, 20:05

This is my list of our players!

1 Andy McLeod (now a married man :()
2 Mark Ricccuito
3 Simon Goodwin
4 Ben Hart
5 Mark Stevens
6 Wayne Carey
7 Tyson Stenglein
8 Scott Welsh
9 Nigel Smart
10 Rhett Biglands
11 Graham John****
12 Mark Bickley
13 Matty Bode
14 Tyson Edwards
15 Ronnie Burns
16 Jason Torney
17 Matt Clarke
18 Nathan Bassett
19 Chris Ladhams
20 Brett Burton
21 Ken McGregor
22 Andrew Crowell
23 Michael Doughty
24 James Gallagher
25 Kris Massie
26 Marty Mattner
27 Nathan Bock
28 Trent Hentschel
29 Brent Reilly
30 Ben Rutten
31 Jacob Schuback
32 Matthew Smith
33 Ben Nelson
34 Dan Schell
35 Ian Perrie
36 Ben Marsh

DaveW

14 Nov 2002, 20:20

Here's mine:

1. McLeod
2. Ricciuto
3. Goodwin
4. Hart
5. Stevens
6. Carey
7. Edwards
8. Biglands
9. Bickley
10. Bode
11. Clarke
12. Stenglein
13. Smart
14. Bassett
15. Ladhams
16. McGregor
17. Johncoc k
18. Burton
19. Welsh
20. Doughty
21. Massie
22. Gallagher
23. Torney
24. Crowell
25. Mattner
26. Burns
27. Perrie
28. Marsh
29. Schell
30. Nelson

Kane McGoodwin

14 Nov 2002, 20:23

1. McLeod
2. Riccuito
3. Stevens
4. Hart
5. Goodwin
6. Carey
7. Edwards
8. Biglands
9. Stenglein
10. Welsh
11. Clarke
12. Ladhams
13. Bassett
14. Smart
15. Bickley
16. Bode
17. McGregor
18. Burton
19. Johnstiffy
20. Burns
21. Torney
22. Doughty
23. Massie
24. Gallagher
25. Mattner
26. Crowell
27. Rutten
28. Hentschel
29. Reilly
30. Schuback
31. Smith
32. Bock
33. 1st draft pick
34. 2nd draft pick
35. 3rd draft pick
36. 4th draft pick
37. Perrie
38. Nelson
39. Schell
40. Marsh

Kane McGoodwin

14 Nov 2002, 20:25

If I get a few more lists, I will do an average ranking.

DaveW

14 Nov 2002, 20:28

I probably would've put Welsh as high as you two have put him half way into the season. But watching his attrocious kicking from the great southern stand on preliminary final day really left a bad taste in my mouth.

Kane McGoodwin

14 Nov 2002, 20:32

Originally posted by DaveW
I probably would've put Welsh as high as you two have put him half way into the season. But watching his attrocious kicking from the great southern stand on preliminary final day really left a bad taste in my mouth. Welshy wasn't 100% from his OP late in the season. Remember him for being one of the best medium-sized forwards earlier in the season. You can always edit your list. ;)

macca23

14 Nov 2002, 20:39

Here's mine:

1. McLeod
2. Ricciuto
3. Stevens
4. Carey
5. Goodwin
6. Hart
7. Edwards
8. Biglands
9. Bickley
10. Stenglein
11. Clarke
12. Bode
13. Smart
14. Welsh
15. Bassett
16. McGregor
17. Johncoc k
18. Burton
19. Ladhams
20. Burns
21. Doughty
22. Torney
23. Massie
24. Mattner
25. Hentschel
26. Crowell
27. Gallagher
28. Rutten
29. Schuback
30. Reilly
31. Smith
32. Perrie
33. Bock
34. Marsh
35. Nelson
36. Schell

Kane McGoodwin

14 Nov 2002, 20:59

Originally posted by macca23
Here's mine:

1. McLeod
Interesting how Macca rates himself as no.1 ... mind you, who would disagree ;) :D

macca23

14 Nov 2002, 21:08

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Interesting how Macca rates himself as no.1 ... mind you, who would disagree

:D :D

DaveW

14 Nov 2002, 21:08

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Interesting how Macca rates himself as no.1 ... mind you, who would disagree ;) :D

Yes and yet:

Originally posted by MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl
5 Mark Stevens

wasn't ranked number one by his number one fan.

Kane McGoodwin

14 Nov 2002, 21:28

Originally posted by DaveW

Yes and yet:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl
5 Mark Stevens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wasn't ranked number one by his number one fan. K, what's wrong as most of us had Stevo ranked higher. ;)

ant

14 Nov 2002, 21:44

My contribution, based on a combination of quality and importance to the team :

1. McLeod
2. Ricciuto
3. Stevens
4. Hart
5. Goodwin
6. Carey
7. Biglands
8. Edwards
9. Smart
10. Stenglein
11. Bickley
12. Welsh
13. Burton
14. Bode
15. Clarke
16. Bassett
17. McGregor
18. Ladhams
19. Johnstiffy
20. Burns
21. Massie
22. Torney
23. Doughty
24. Crowell
25. Gallagher
26. Mattner
27. Rutten
28. Hentschel
29. Reilly
30. Schuback
31. Smith
32. Bock
33. Perrie
34. Nelson
35. Schell
36. Marsh

crowsfan

14 Nov 2002, 21:48

1. McLeod
2. Ricciuto
3. Carey
4. Stenglein
5. Stevens
6. Goodwin
7. Edwards
8. Hart
9. Biglands
10. Welsj
11. Smart
12. Bickley
13. Burns
14. Clarke
15. Bode
16. Doughty
17. Ladhams
18. Burton
19. Bassett
20. Johnc___
21. Rutten
22. Torney
23. Massie
24. Mattner
25. Gallagher
26. Crowell
27. Henschel
28. McGregor
29. Smith
30. Reilly
31. Schuback
32. Perrie
33. Bock
34. Marsh
35. Nelson
36. Schell

macca23

14 Nov 2002, 21:52

Originally posted by crowsfan

28. McGregor

Can't agree with this one. He's a starting 18 player and became of age at CHB last year. Has to be in the first 18 IMO, or at very worst in the first 22.

crowsfan

14 Nov 2002, 22:02

Thats fair enough, macca23.
I just think that the others ahead of him might step up moreand that I don't think he'll have as good a season as last year (no offence ot him, of course), and of course I hope I'm wrong.

noddy

15 Nov 2002, 10:00

Here's mine in order,

1 Ricciuto
2 Mcleod
3 Goodwin
4 Carey
5 Stevens
6 Edwards
7 Hart
8 Biglands
9 Bickley
10 Clarke
11 Smart
12 Stenglein
13 Mcgregor
14 Welsh
15 Basset
16 Ladhams
17 Bode
18 Burton
19 Johnstiffy
20 Torney
21 Massie
22 Burns
23 Doughty
24 Rutten
25 Mattner
26 Crowal
27 Gallagher
28 Marsh
29 Perrie
30 Reilly
31 Smith
32 Henschell
33 Schuback
34 Nelson
35 Schell
36 Bock

Have put our ruckmen fairly high even Marsh as i feel we will need a winning ruck,

marvin

15 Nov 2002, 11:03

1. McLeod
2. Stevens
3. Goodwin
4. Ricciuto
5. Carey
6. Hart
7. Biglands
8. Edwards
9. Clarke
10. Stenglein
11. Bickley
12. Welsh
13. Smart
14. Bode
15. McGregor
16. Burton
17. Bassett
18. Johnxxxx
19. Ladhams
20. Massie
21. Doughty
22. Torney
23. Crowell
24. Gallagher
25. Rutten
26. Mattner
27. Burns
28. Perrie
29. Hentschel
30. Reilly
31. Smith
32. Schuback
33. Bock
34. Nelson
35. Schell
236. Marsh

Kane McGoodwin

15 Nov 2002, 18:52

Well I have tallied up everyone's ranking & the results are as follows:

Rank, Player, Ave Score
1 McLeod 1.1
2 Ricciuto 2.1
3 Stevens 3.9
4 Goodwin 4.1
5 Carey 5.0
6 Hart 5.4
7 Edwards 8.0
8 Biglands 8.1
9 Stenglein 9.3
10 Bickley 11.0
11 Smart 11.6
12 Clarke 12.3
13 Welsh 12.4
14 Bode 13.9
15 Bassett 15.9
16 Ladhams 16.9
17 Burton 17.4
18 Johnstiffy 17.5
19 McGregor 17.9
20 Burns 20.4
21 Torney 21.0
22 Doughty 21.1
23 Massie 22.1
24 Rutten 22.8
25 Crowell 24.6
26 Gallagher 24.8
27 Mattner 25.1
28 Hentschel 28.1
29 Reilly 29.6
=30 Schuback 30.9
=30 Smith 30.9
32 Perrie 31.1
33 Bock 32.3
34 Marsh 33.5
35 Nelson 33.6
36 Schell 34.4

macca23

15 Nov 2002, 18:55

Originally posted by marvin

34. Nelson
35. Schell
236. Marsh

236 for Marsh?? A typo, freudian slip or just an opinion?? :D

Jerome

15 Nov 2002, 18:57

I'll hold off on doing this until after the draft. I don't expect us to pick up an absolute gun with the low picks we have, but we I'm sure the AFC will surprise us next week.

Jerome

Spogs

15 Nov 2002, 19:04

24 Rutten 22.8
25 Crowell 24.6
26 Gallagher 24.8
27 Mattner 25.1

If this ranking is the same at the end of the year we are in real trouble. I didn't put a side in and if I did it would probably be the same as everyone else but with our late draft picks this year, we really need two of these four to stand up.

Hopefully we'll have some late draft picks next year as well which really makes the development of our youngsters critical.

MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl

15 Nov 2002, 22:41

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by DaveW

Yes and yet:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl
5 Mark Stevens

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

wasn't ranked number one by his number one fan.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

K, what's wrong as most of us had Stevo ranked higher.

lol, you guys know Stevo is my #1 guy! I was ranking him in my list of importance. I ranked him 5th, but really in my opinion he is equal 3rd with Simon Goodwin & Ben Hart. Those three are very important to our game plan and it is hard to choose between them. By ranking him 5th I still think he is in our top group of players! Also if I said Stevo was #1 you'd all call me biased!!! (which of course I am!)

Now if I were to rank them in my favourites, then the list would be very different! Heres a little look

This is my list of favourite players!

1 Mark Stevens - ;)
2 Simon Goodwin
3 Mark Bickley
4 Andy McLeod
5 Tyson Stenglein
6 Wayne Carey
7 Scott Welsh
8 Ben Hart
9 Graham John****
10 Mark Riccuito
11 Matty Bode
12 Rhett Biglands
13 Nathan Bassett
14 Ken McGregor
15 Tyson Edwards
16 Brett Burton
17 Andrew Crowell
18 Michael Doughty
19 Kris Massie
20 Chris Ladhams
21 Jason Torney
22 Ronnie Burns
23 Nigel Smart
24 James Gallagher
25 Matt Clarke
26 Marty Mattner
27 Nathan Bock
28 Trent Hentschel
29 Brent Reilly
30 Ben Rutten
31 Jacob Schuback
32 Matthew Smith
33 Ben Nelson
34 Dan Schell
35 Ian Perrie
36 Ben Marsh

see, my favourite list is a bit different!

k
xx

lol, see it is a bit different!

k
xx

DaveW

16 Nov 2002, 00:50

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Well I have tallied up everyone's ranking & the results are as follows:

Rank, Player, Ave Score
=22 Doughty 21.1
=22 Massie 22.1

That can't be right - which is the typo, the rank or the average score?

If their rank really is equal, that makes it a bit hard to choose our best 22 doesn't it? :)

Kane McGoodwin

16 Nov 2002, 14:28

Originally posted by DaveW

That can't be right - which is the typo, the rank or the average score?

If their rank really is equal, that makes it a bit hard to choose our best 22 doesn't it? :) Dave, the rank was wrong - will fix. Can't be right all the time - only 99% of the time... ;)

DaveW

16 Nov 2002, 14:44

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Dave, the rank was wrong - will fix. Can't be right all the time - only 99% of the time... ;)

In that case the top 22 pretty much gives us the team you put together in: (with Doughty not Mattner)
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52165&pagenumber=3

With Johncoc k in the starting line up ahead of Burns. Clarke also made the top 18, but you'd probably still have the 2nd ruckman on the bench (makes sense for McGregor, the 19th player, to start as well).

Kane McGoodwin

16 Nov 2002, 14:58

Originally posted by DaveW
In that case the top 22 pretty much gives us the team you put together in: (with Doughty not Mattner)
http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=52165&pagenumber=3

With Johncoc k in the starting line up ahead of Burns. Clarke also made the top 18, but you'd probably still have the 2nd ruckman on the bench (makes sense for McGregor, the 19th player, to start as well). Interesting that. At least we are consistent! :cool:

marvin

19 Nov 2002, 08:13

Originally posted by macca23

236 for Marsh?? A typo, freudian slip or just an opinion?? :D

It wasn't a typo or a freudian slip - I was trying to stuff up Kane McG's averaging algorithm!

:)

Kane McGoodwin

19 Nov 2002, 12:26

Originally posted by marvin
It wasn't a typo or a freudian slip - I was trying to stuff up Kane McG's averaging algorithm!

:) I had a good laugh at your ranking of Marsh (what would you have ranked D Gallagher?) Nahh, Dave tested me more by only ranking 30 players.

DaveW

19 Nov 2002, 12:36

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
I had a good laugh at your ranking of Marsh (what would you have ranked D Gallagher?) Nahh, Dave tested me more by only ranking 30 players.
Hehe sorry. But between Bock, Hentschell, Reilly, Rutten, Schuback and Smith I've seen about one kick from them. i.e. Reilly in that game where he was essentially a bench warmer, I didn't see enough of him to form an opinion. What were the rest of you basing your rankings on? Having seen them in the SANFL or their reputations? Or did you just feel that anyone had to be better than Marsh, Nelson, Perrie and Schell?

macca23

19 Nov 2002, 13:16

Originally posted by DaveW

Hehe sorry. But between Bock, Hentschell, Reilly, Rutten, Schuback and Smith I've seen about one kick from them. i.e. Reilly in that game where he was essentially a bench warmer, I didn't see enough of him to form an opinion. What were the rest of you basing your rankings on? Having seen them in the SANFL or their reputations? Or did you just feel that anyone had to be better than Marsh, Nelson, Perrie and Schell?

From seeing them at SANFL level Dave, but even if I hadn't I would have gone along with the feeling that anybody had to be better than Marsh, Nelson, Perrie and Schell.

There is a fair bit of talent in this group of 6 players and its odds on that 1 or more will play games at some time during the year, with the most likely IMO being Hentschel and Rutten. I really like the look of both these players. Hentschell had an excellent preliminary final for the Eagles at FF, and Rutten just had a great season all year for Westies. As did Schuback for that matter.

marvin

19 Nov 2002, 15:40

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
I had a good laugh at your ranking of Marsh (what would you have ranked D Gallagher?) Nahh, Dave tested me more by only ranking 30 players.

I defended Gallagher more than most, for 3 reasons -

1 - I was heard to utter as I left Waverley after Round 2, 1999 "that Gallagher kid will be a hell of a player. His disposal is terrific". I didn't want to admit for a _long_ time that I had egg all over my dial on that call.

2 - His sister works with one of my closest friends, and every time my friend (who has no interest in footy) asked how Gallagher was going, I didn't have the stomach to tell her that he was getting worse by the game.

3 - for all his faults, lack of guts wasn't one of them.

Where I would rank Darren Smith on the other hand is another thread, and possibly a whole new system of mathematics.

Zombie

19 Nov 2002, 16:22

I can't believe how highly you guys rate Mark Stevens, I would have him somewhere around the 10 - 12 mark yet you guys have him as high as 2nd.

macca23

19 Nov 2002, 16:32

Originally posted by DaveW

between Bock, Hentschell, Reilly, Rutten, Schuback and Smith I've seen about one kick from them.

Had the pleasure of talking to Ben Hart for a few minutes today, and I put it to Ben which of these 6 players did he think might really come on this year, and be the surprise packet.

He didn't hesitate in nominating Hentschel, saying that he thinks he has a touch of class about him. He thought that but for breaking his ankle at the start of last year, he would have played for the Crows last year.

He was also complimentary about the progress of young Smith, believing that he will ultimately either make a CHB or a back pocket who minds talls.

Kane McGoodwin

19 Nov 2002, 16:33

Originally posted by Zombie
I can't believe how highly you guys rate Mark Stevens, I would have him somewhere around the 10 - 12 mark yet you guys have him as high as 2nd. Well that is because you have no idea about the Crows, so I would expect nothing less from you ... but I gather you will tell us that you are right & we are all wrong. Helps to open your other eye when watching games. ;)

Kane McGoodwin

19 Nov 2002, 16:39

Originally posted by macca23
Had the pleasure of talking to Ben Hart for a few minutes today, and I put it to Ben which of these 6 players did he think might really come on this year, and be the surprise packet.

He didn't hesitate in nominating Hentschel, saying that he thinks he has a touch of class about him. He thought that but for breaking his ankle at the start of last year, he would have played for the Crows last year.

He was also complimentary about the progress of young Smith, believing that he will ultimately either make a CHB or a back pocket who minds talls. Hentschel sounds an exciting prospect, so let's hope he doesn't become injury-prone like a Fitzy or a Lockwood. I thought Port were using Smith as more of a running rather than a key defender? If we are to continue to progress, we need to have a youngster or 2 come through each year.

DaveW

19 Nov 2002, 16:56

Originally posted by Zombie
I can't believe how highly you guys rate Mark Stevens, I would have him somewhere around the 10 - 12 mark yet you guys have him as high as 2nd.
Troll.

Zombie

19 Nov 2002, 17:46

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Well that is because you have no idea about the Crows, so I would expect nothing less from you ... but I gather you will tell us that you are right & we are all wrong. Helps to open your other eye when watching games. ;)

Actually I watch the majority of Crows matches, Stevens doesn't strike me as anything more than a handy player, certainly not a top liner. Of your forwards I would rate Burton probably a bit better than him and Welsh on par with him.

His main problem is that he is probably played out of position a bit as he is not really suited to being a focal target at CHF. Ideally, IMO, he would be better off playing as a 2nd or 3rd marking target in the forward line. His key strengths are his work rate which is exceptional and his marking, although i wouldn't back him on most occassions in a pack situation.

As for my Crows list:

1. M.Ricciutio
2. A.McLeod
3. S.Goodwin
4. B.Hart
5. T.Edwards
6. N.Smart
7. M.Bickley
8. W.Carey
9. T.Stenglein
10. B.Burton

Jerome

19 Nov 2002, 18:47

DaveW

19 Nov 2002, 19:07

Originally posted by Zombie

Actually I watch the majority of Crows matches
with your eyes closed presumably... Troll.

MarksGirl-kbcrowgirl

19 Nov 2002, 19:23

Kane McGoodwin

19 Nov 2002, 21:45

Originally posted by Zombie
Actually I watch the majority of Crows matches, Stevens doesn't strike me as anything more than a handy player, certainly not a top liner. Of your forwards I would rate Burton probably a bit better than him and Welsh on par with him.

His main problem is that he is probably played out of position a bit as he is not really suited to being a focal target at CHF. Ideally, IMO, he would be better off playing as a 2nd or 3rd marking target in the forward line. His key strengths are his work rate which is exceptional and his marking, although i wouldn't back him on most occassions in a pack situation.

As for my Crows list:

1. M.Ricciutio
2. A.McLeod
3. S.Goodwin
4. B.Hart
5. T.Edwards
6. N.Smart
7. M.Bickley
8. W.Carey
9. T.Stenglein
10. B.Burton Digging youself a deeper hole again I see Zombie. This would truely make the top-10 of your most stupid posts - & that is something considering there is heaps of competition with the BS you post! ;)

Point #1 - Have you wondered why every Crows supporter involved in the ranking process voted Stevens between 2nd-5th most important player - clearly a tier 1 player for us - ie. in Port speak, as important as Tredrea! Do you honestly think we would all be wrong in our judgement & you with your tunnel-vision on the Crows would be correct? We all (well nearly all) know the answer to that one as it is bleeding obvious.

Point #2 - The fact you rate Burton ahead of Stevens & Welsh proves you have little idea about the Crows. You may watch the games, but you still have no idea!!! Some say Burton was lucky not to be traded due to his inconsistency - Stevens & Welsh (when not injured) were clearly our best 2 forwards in 2002 (& don't bother quoting goals as that doesn't indicate the best forward).

I was about to say buggar off until you have something intelligent to say, but that would limit your posting here & I do need a good laugh from time to time. :p

Zombie

19 Nov 2002, 23:13

Well who would you compare him to, ie which other player from another team is he most like?

I don't doubt his work ethic or his commitment but he isn't exactly a dominant forward who kicks bags of goals and takes heaps of marks is he?

So if he is a key forward who doesn't take alot of marks and doesn't kick alot of goals then how can he be considered the second best player on the list?

I think you guys may be talking about importance to the team, and I guess if you consider him the #1 forward then he is important to the team but there is no way he is a better player than the likes of Goodwin, Ricciuto, Hart, Edwards, Smart, etc.

Every teams supporters have their favourites and so maybe Stevens is one of them but from my perspective, not trying to have a go at you guys, he isn't the 2nd best player and if I were to pick 10 players from the Crows list to build a side on it wouldn't include him.

Zombie

19 Nov 2002, 23:30

Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin

Point #2 - The fact you rate Burton ahead of Stevens & Welsh proves you have little idea about the Crows. You may watch the games, but you still have no idea!!! Some say Burton was lucky not to be traded due to his inconsistency - Stevens & Welsh (when not injured) were clearly our best 2 forwards in 2002 (& don't bother quoting goals as that doesn't indicate the best forward).

Burton is a better forward than M.Stevens, whether you like it or not. A KP forwards sole purpose is to take marks and kick goals and Burton gets more of both aswell as more kicks.

In fact Burton was more consistent aswell, failing not to kick any goals on only 4 occassions compared to Stevens 6.

The sad fact of the matter is that I know more about your team than you do. Neither are top line forwards but Burton is the one I worry more about when Port are playing the Crows.

DaveW

20 Nov 2002, 00:48

Originally posted by Zombie

Burton is a better forward than M.Stevens, whether you like it or not. A KP forwards sole purpose is to take marks and kick goals and Burton gets more of both aswell as more kicks.

In fact Burton was more consistent aswell, failing not to kick any goals on only 4 occassions compared to Stevens 6.

The sad fact of the matter is that I know more about your team than you do. Neither are top line forwards but Burton is the one I worry more about when Port are playing the Crows.
Not only do you know more than about Adelaide than Kane, you know more about Adelaide than everyone else on this board, and the Adelaide coaching staff! [/SARCASM] Think for a second, which of Stevens and Burton is the focal point at centre half forward and which is the one that is moved about between FF/FP/HFF?

Stevens does the hard stuff at CHF, he takes the oppositions best defender. He's our best forward in a contest. Burton on the other hand is the more glamour forward, he takes the 'softer' marks on the lead and kicks more goals by virtue of the fact that he roams closer to goal.

I guess as a non-supporter you fail to see and appreciate the genuine hard work of Mark Stevens that us supporters do.