Our forward set up this year, how do you see it?

[ManWithNoName]

The point of interest at present is our forward line and how we go about it. Lloyd, Lucas, Gumbleton, Neagle. Do we play all of them? Just two? Three? Where do we play them? How much time does Lloyd spend up forward this year? Who else do we have up forward? Who's crumbing? Lots of questions, lots of potential discussion.

The way I see it is this. I say play all four talls.

Lloyd up on the wing/forward flank playing a strong marking link-man style role.

Gumbleton roaming the 50mt arc as Centre Half Forward.

Lucas and Neagle playing out of the square and lurking inside 50, giving us two leading marking targets, one a tall overhead marking target, one a strong pack marking target.

Davey and Reimers playing the small crumbing roles to Neagle and Lucas. Davey has the insane speed, Reimers has a knack for finding the goals that can't be taught. I'd lean towards Davey playing the flank crumbing role with Reimers closer to goal, simply because Davey can then go up the ground more where his pace can be useful. Also Davey, and more often than not Reimers, aren't the type to try and lead for a ball with guys like Neagle and Lucas nearby, so that should leave an open 50mt arc for those two to lead into.

I don't see a role for McPhee up forward, and thus in the team either. He's not quick or mobile enough to play a Reimers style role but he's nowhere near being ahead of any of the four tall forwards. He's a liability that we can't afford to carry anymore.

Thoughts? Ideas?

[bombersrbest05]

It is hard because we have the four talls but then we also have Hille who is great up forward and Laycock also who has shown potential. It will be tough to play all 4 it might mean Lucas playing back but McPhee is defently a required player in our line-up, I think maybe push him to a half back role as he does have a great mark and kicking is okay to but we need his leadership and experience.

[white_noise]

The point of interest at present is our forward line and how we go about it. Lloyd, Lucas, Gumbleton, Neagle. Do we play all of them? Just two? Three? Where do we play them? How much time does Lloyd spend up forward this year? Who else do we have up forward? Who's crumbing? Lots of questions, lots of potential discussion.

The way I see it is this. I say play all four talls.

Lloyd up on the wing/forward flank playing a strong marking link-man style role.

Gumbleton roaming the 50mt arc as Centre Half Forward.

Lucas and Neagle playing out of the square and lurking inside 50, giving us two leading marking targets, one a tall overhead marking target, one a strong pack marking target.

Davey and Reimers playing the small crumbing roles to Neagle and Lucas. Davey has the insane speed, Reimers has a knack for finding the goals that can't be taught. I'd lean towards Davey playing the flank crumbing role with Reimers closer to goal, simply because Davey can then go up the ground more where his pace can be useful. Also Davey, and more often than not Reimers, aren't the type to try and lead for a ball with guys like Neagle and Lucas nearby, so that should leave an open 50mt arc for those two to lead into.

I don't see a role for McPhee up forward, and thus in the team either. He's not quick or mobile enough to play a Reimers style role but he's nowhere near being ahead of any of the four tall forwards. He's a liability that we can't afford to carry anymore.

Thoughts? Ideas?

I reckon you have it pretty much spot on.

[thebigboy]

It is hard because we have the four talls but then we also have Hille who is great up forward and Laycock also who has shown potential. It will be tough to play all 4 it might mean Lucas playing back but McPhee is defently a required player in our line-up, I think maybe push him to a half back role as he does have a great mark and kicking is okay to but we need his leadership and experience.

Lucas down back wouldn't work anymore.

We need to spend the time developing Hurley, Ryder, Pears etc rather than using Lucas as a stop gap defender which makes me think that if the 4 talls set up doesn't work, he may be the one who misses out.

I think McPhee needs to find his confidence which means leaving him in a position for longer than 3 or 4 weeks. His AA season was when he was playing in a set position every week.

Hille works better as a ruckman who drifts forward but agree he does do a good job up forward.

[nighthawk]

Mcphee out of the team? Reimers at full forward? Has the world gone mad???

FWIW, I reckon Mcphee will either be rebounding off half back or less likely, used as a bit of a project player. Reimers to the middle.

[Ben the Gooner]

The sooner people start accepting that Laycock, McPhee, Watson etc. are guaranteed starters, the better we'll be.

McPhee-------------------------Gumbleton
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
------50-------------------------50-------
-----Lloyd---------Lucas------Monfries----
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
---Davey-------------------------Jetta---
------------------Neagle-----------------

[Hirdman]

I dont think we can play them all....

Lloyd can clearly play the lead up role and perhaps higher than he played last year. Although I believe we can only play two more of Neagle, Gumbleton and Lucas. Our first choice will be Lucas and perhaps we can rotate Neagle and Gumbleton in and out of the side. This allows us to play either 3 smalls Monfries, Davey and Jetta/Reimers/Skipworth or it allows us to rest the ruckman up forward. As we know we are not the cleanest users of the ball in the competition and if we play 4 talls we will get killed on the turnover.

There may be games (especially if none of them get injured) that they all play, but if it doesnt work it means we have 1 tall forward plus 1 resting ruckman on the bench which doesnt give us the rotations on the ball that we need. I think McPhee will play a bits a pieces role for us this year which although is probably not ideal for his development will be best for the team.

We have a similar dilema (albeit a good one) down back with Fletcher, Ryder, Pears and Hurley luckily Fletcher and Pears can probably take smaller players which allows us some flexibility. We probably just need to understand that some of these future KPP's are going to have to waite in the wings for atleast another season, or we play a rotation policy.

[ManWithNoName]

Mcphee out of the team? Reimers at full forward? Has the world gone mad???

FWIW, I reckon Mcphee will either be rebounding off half back or less likely, used as a bit of a project player. Reimers to the middle.
Where did I say Reimers at full forward? I said he'd be playing a small forward crumbing role.

And with Lloyd playing the tall strong marking linkman role, I can't see the need for McPhee playing the exact same kind of role.

[horj89]

FF: Davey - Lloyd - Neagle

CHF: Reimers/Monfires - Lucas - Jetta

I'd like to see Gumbleton play as the lead up man. Almost play him on a wing in a similair role as Richo.

[acursi08]

I think Lloyd and Monfries should play up the wings playing a strong marking link-man role. Gumbleton center half forward. Neagle full/lead up forward and Lucas lead up forward with Jetta and Davey there for the crumbs and forward line pressure. (Although the only person I can see that doesn't have that 'forward line pressure is Lucas)

[stugots]

with their development behind schedule, neagle & gumbleton must play every game possible when fit regardless of who else is available & i like mcfee & am sure he will slot in somewhere,

signs on friday night indicate there will be some teething probs with the forward structure regardless of what knights decides on

[ManWithNoName]

FF: Davey - Lloyd - Neagle

CHF: Reimers/Monfires - Lucas - Jetta

I'd like to see Gumbleton play as the lead up man. Almost play him on a wing in a similair role as Richo.
Neagle's the stay at home forward. He's not fit, fast, or mobile enough to play up the ground.

[Jonesy1987]

Neagle's the stay at home forward. He's not fit, fast, or mobile enough to play up the ground.

I was surprised he had some decent leads to about half way on friday, can't remember whether or not they were honored but still decent leads none the less.

[Colin D'Cops]

HF: McPhee/Reimers - Lloyd - Jetta/Lovett
FF: Neagle/Gumby - Lucas - Monfries/Davey

[BringBackCransberg]

I may be thinking further ahead than intended by the OP, but once Lloyd & Lucas are gone, and before Still & Whomever can take the reins, I'd like to see Laycock used as a forward pocket, especially if Bellchambers' development keeps rocketing ahead. He can take the big pack marks and, I think, is a beautiful set shot. Don't use him as a main target--his leads are more like shuffles--but let him float around, a kind of pinch hitter. With confidence, both self confidence and confidence from the coaches (aka "game time"), I reckon he could possibly be locked in for 3 goals a game, which would be handy for a forward pocket.

If that were the case, then Neagle/Gumbleton would play the key positions, Monfries the defensive forward, Jetta/Davey as the crumbing (other) pocket, with the other flank left open for either another crumber, or resting midfielder, or Reimers/Williams type player.

But then again, I once mistook a woman for a man and didn't realise till she told me that she hated me.

[Ben the Gooner]

But then again, I once mistook a woman for a man and didn't realise till she told me that she hated me.

Sigworthy.:D

[Smyth94]

Neagle's the stay at home forward. He's not fit, fast, or mobile enough to play up the ground.

People keep saying this but on Saturday night he put in a couple of massive efforts (chasing) and wasn't blowing up like we saw last year.

I think he's improved a bit in this area.

[FullFathom5]

FWIW, I still think that McPhee has superior aerobic capacity compared to most forward flankers, plus he has body size. This may suggest a wing/flank role, maybe?

His main downside is decision-making which manifests in poor disposal. I feel this is largely between the ears because he's demonstrated that he does have ability.

I suspect he'll be a true utility player this year, in the Paul Barnard mode.

[The_Young_Gun]

FF: Lloyd, Neagle, Davey.
HF: Gumbleton, Lucas, Monfries.

Lloyd will take the role of staying in the square and having the pleasure of many one on one contests.. Neagle will be a true lead up full forward.. Davey will just do what he does best, crumb the ball, get it up half forward create magic.ect... Gumby will be a lead up half forward more up the ground as we saw in the bombers first Nab cup match.. Lucas will just linger round the ark of the 50 like usual getting a good 5 goals or so a game... and monfries (or Mcphee) will just be the extra option on the flank, and also being the defensive pressure inside our 50..

[mark1881]

However it works out its great for Essendon to have so many options up forward. It puts pressure on players to perform and hence creates depth! Its an ideal situation to be in. Here's hoping they all stay fit and it remains this way.

[Bomberlicious]

The sooner people start accepting that Laycock, McPhee, Watson etc. are guaranteed starters, the better we'll be.

McPhee-------------------------Gumbleton
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
------50-------------------------50-------
-----Lloyd---------Lucas------Monfries----
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
---Davey-------------------------Jetta---
------------------Neagle-----------------

That's spot-on what I was about to post. Lloyd's proven goal-kicking record, for me, suggests he shouldn't play too far up the ground, and Gumby's aerobic capacity makes him the perfect fit.

I look at McPhee in a similar vein to Solly (circa 2003-04), the big, mobile wingman with a bit of agression, marking ability and size on his opponent.

And of the subject of Watson - how good was his disposal by foot on Friday?!? :thumbsu:

[nighthawk]

Where did I say Reimers at full forward? I said he'd be playing a small forward crumbing role.

And with Lloyd playing the tall strong marking linkman role, I can't see the need for McPhee playing the exact same kind of role.

I know you didn't say KPF, but you did say put him in the forward 50, closer to goals. Obviously you didn't mean as a tall marking prospect, but even as a crumber I reckon Reimers would be much more useful elsewhere.

Lloyd to play the linkman up forward, McPhee to stay out on a wing in the backline and present that option out wide to get us out of defence like he often does.

[daffo]

I hope that Lloydy can still play five or so games from FF. I want to see another 7+ bag from him this year. I think we will use the interchange bench moreso to fit all the talls in. We will have only three out of four of them on the ground at any time. Lucas/Lloyd/Neagle/Gumby

[Gpat]

However it works out its great for Essendon to have so many options up forward. It puts pressure on players to perform and hence creates depth! Its an ideal situation to be in. Here's hoping they all stay fit and it remains this way.
Exactly! I'm just happy to have the problem, given the injury history of those 4.

[Wanna B Hird]

In the short term I think H.Slattery may be making way for Mcphee but then again that makes our back line a bit top heavy Mcphee might find himself on a wing.(Slattery is safe for now)

[Slattery_20]

It's going to make it harder to play a 2nd ruck starting on the bench
So we come back to Gumby as 2nd ruck, or Gumby back and Paddy in the ruck

[BlacK'n'ReD]

Really hoping Nagle takes off; he looks the goods.

[EssendonPride]

In the short term I think H.Slattery may be making way for Mcphee but then again that makes our back line a bit top heavy Mcphee might find himself on a wing.(Slattery is safe for now)

Never going to happen. Very different players.

[The_Young_Gun]

Never going to happen. Very different players.

yeah, mcphee is actually good!

[Darealrath]

Davey as the crumber, Monfries as the tagger.

Reimers I'd like to see on the wing delivering the footy into the F50. McPhee gets squeezed out. I think he could be very good at half back or even on the wing this season.

I wouldn't lock down the tall forward positions. We have 2 stars and 2 young guns. Not many sides can matchup with that. Therefore Knights will have to be clever to exploit matchups without overcomplicating things.

Also, seeing Lloyd and Lucas are getting on a bit, and the other two have had difficulty with injury, it might be a good idea to only have three of them on the field at the same time, and have 1 rotating to freshen them up. Neagle and Gumby especially might hit the wall in the second half of the season if we expect them to play a heap of minutes in the seniors all season.

[DaSawx]

Slattery played pretty well the second half of last year, I won't be writing him off after 1 game on Brad Johnson.

McPhee certainly works hard for the team be he himself is still very error prone, I'm still not fussed on his decision making.

[Ben the Gooner]

Slattery played pretty well the second half of last year, I won't be writing him off after 1 game on Brad Johnson.

McPhee certainly works hard for the team be he himself is still very error prone, I'm still not fussed on his decision making.

Unfortunately Slats, like Laycock and to a lesser extent McPhee, will be labelled as shit for the rest of his career due to the uninformed groupthink.:rolleyes:

[bomba4eva]

Unfortunately Slats, like Laycock and to a lesser extent McPhee, will be labelled as shit for the rest of his career due to the uninformed groupthink.:rolleyes:
Do you not see Slattery as a weakness in our side? Perhaps on this occasion the collective are correct.

[Ben the Gooner]

I'm not going to write off an impressive second half of last season based on a single NAB Cup game.

[bomba4eva]

He is a decidedly average player with poor skills, limited pace and no footy brain. He makes up for it with courage and determination but unfortunately this does not cover his football weaknesses.

[Andre 2000]

I'm not going to write off an impressive second half of last season based on a single NAB Cup game.

Yep. Bang on.

[stay true]

The sooner people start accepting that Laycock, McPhee, Watson etc. are guaranteed starters, the better we'll be.

McPhee-------------------------Gumbleton
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
------50-------------------------50-------
-----Lloyd---------Lucas------Monfries----
------------------------------------------
------------------------------------------
---Davey-------------------------Jetta---
------------------Neagle-----------------

Bang on there. And the forward set up is pretty much exactly what I was thinking.

Also I can't understand why H.Slattery isn't in our best 22? He's not as bad as some seem to be making out.

[daffo]

He is in our best 22 but I think that has more to do with no one pushing up to get his position. Honestly, how many other teams would he get a game in?

[Giggidy Giggidy]

Also, seeing Lloyd and Lucas are getting on a bit, and the other two have had difficulty with injury, it might be a good idea to only have three of them on the field at the same time, and have 1 rotating to freshen them up. Neagle and Gumby especially might hit the wall in the second half of the season if we expect them to play a heap of minutes in the seniors all season.

Not sure if you were referring to rotating out of the team (or just off the bench?), but I think you're spot on there. I'd love to see all of them out there dominating together, but it would be great for the longevity of Lloyd/Lucas, and very beneficial to the injury-prone Gumby/Neagle to rotate through and each get a rest once a month, playing approx. 16 games each.

Add Monfries at HFF, 2 of Davey/Jetta/Skippy in the pockets (with Hille or Laycock occasionally resting there) and McPhee back to HBF and I'm pretty happy with that structure and our resource management.:thumbsu:

[Andre 2000]

He is in our best 22 but I think that has more to do with no one pushing up to get his position. Honestly, how many other teams would he get a game in?

Most of them. He's still a young player.

I'm sure Campbell Brown would love to play alongside someone like Henry. They could butt heads in the warm up. Slatts will end up better than Guerra.

[Longy413]

Slattery played pretty well the second half of last year, I won't be writing him off after 1 game on Brad Johnson.


A game where he got burnt twice by his teammates when he tried to expose Johnson for a lazy cheat and a game where he gave away a stupid free in a contest that he had him beaten in.

Johnson should have only kicked one, he was lucky to kick four.




On topic - I would have thought our forward line set up will change with every center bounce.

[Smyth94]

A game where he got burnt twice by his teammates when he tried to expose Johnson for a lazy cheat and a game where he gave away a stupid free in a contest that he had him beaten in.

Johnson should have only kicked one, he was lucky to kick four.




On topic - I would have thought our forward line set up will change with every center bounce.

I'd also love to see Lovett and Winderlich play from the square for a few short bursts

[eth-dog]

McPhee-----------CENTRE SQUARE-----------Lloyd
----------------------Gumbleton-----------------------
Gus---------50--------------------------50---Reimers
-----------------------------------------------------------
-----------------------------------------------------------
Davey-------------------------------------------Neagle
---------------------------Lucas-------------------------

[Ben the Gooner]

He is a decidedly average player with poor skills, limited pace and no footy brain. He makes up for it with courage and determination but unfortunately this does not cover his football weaknesses.

I think longy made the point late last year that when he runs off his man, he tends to be involved in a goal. That implies at least one of a good footy brain, good pace or good skills.

[mattyboy_666]

HF: McPhee/Reimers - Lloyd - Jetta/Lovett
FF: Neagle/Gumby - Lucas - Monfries/Davey

Lucas a waste at FF when he has a 65m kick

[FullFathom5]

Most of them. He's still a young player.

I'm sure Campbell Brown would love to play alongside someone like Henry. They could butt heads in the warm up. Slatts will end up better than Guerra.

The thing is, Guerra's a half-decent kick. H Slattery is probably only a reasonable one.

[eth-dog]

Lucas a waste at FF when he has a 65m kick
60m max nowadays, and he's coming back from injury ffs, we need him at FF to release Lloydy up the ground

[The_Young_Gun]

60m max nowadays, and he's coming back from injury ffs, we need him at FF to release Lloydy up the ground

I'd rather Lloydy in the square.. He's much more muscular than he was a few years ago... 2006 he got totally built up... Not to mention there aren't many defenders out there experienced enough to handle Lloyd 1 on 1...

I'm just really Band waggoned about the possible concept of Lloyd owning the square this season... Now with Gumby, Lucas and McPhee injury free and able to handle the upfield job, I'd love to see Lloyd return to the square.. As for Neagle, he's got a great lead and is very strong in contests, not nesseserally do I want him to leave playing FF, but I do rather now that Lloyd would play deep up forward as a second target to Neagle making a lead...

[Longy413]

Lucas a waste at FF when he has a 65m kick

He's been playing FF for 3 years.

The thing is, Guerra's a half-decent kick. H Slattery is probably only a reasonable one.

What's wrong with being a reasonable kick?

The fact is, with Welsh injured and McVeigh playing in the midfield, Slatts (H) is our best stopper.

[daffo]

I hope Hocking can come into the team and produce some good tagging games. It might be a bit to early to be asking him to do that though.

[Longy413]

Far too early.

[eth-dog]

I'd rather Lloydy in the square.. He's much more muscular than he was a few years ago... 2006 he got totally built up... Not to mention there aren't many defenders out there experienced enough to handle Lloyd 1 on 1...

I'm just really Band waggoned about the possible concept of Lloyd owning the square this season... Now with Gumby, Lucas and McPhee injury free and able to handle the upfield job, I'd love to see Lloyd return to the square.. As for Neagle, he's got a great lead and is very strong in contests, not nesseserally do I want him to leave playing FF, but I do rather now that Lloyd would play deep up forward as a second target to Neagle making a lead...
McPhee-Defense
Lucas-owning the square, rotating with Neagle, who will be a gun there
Gumby-CHF, he can play up the ground, but I want him to restrict his workload, as he is injury-proned

that leaves Lloyd to play his role like he did last year, where he played really well

[Jex]

Unfortunately Slats, like Laycock and to a lesser extent McPhee, will be labelled as shit for the rest of his career due to the uninformed groupthink.:rolleyes:

I find it amusing when people blame everything they disagree with on "groupthink".

[mercs]

FF: Davey - Lloyd - Neagle

CHF: Reimers/Monfires - Lucas - Jetta

I'd like to see Gumbleton play as the lead up man. Almost play him on a wing in a similair role as Richo.


Get Reimers up the ground he is going to be a gun and i love his confidence.

Davey is very important to the team and we play so much better when he is around.

Lloyd up further and i would like McPhee to go down back to add some experience for us.

Monfries can kick goals - maybe he could play a Bewick role.

Lucas loves the goals so why not have him there and Gumby I cannot wait to see this boy become a star. Starting from 2009 onwoulds.

Neagle - he is our next Lloydy and will be a star so no time like the present exciting time ahead boys and girls

[Ben the Gooner]

I find it amusing when people blame everything they disagree with on "groupthink".

Not at all. I'm willing to argue any point I make at great length. However, some of the posts in the "Weekly Laycock Whinge" thread were cringeworthy, and Slattery is going down the same path.

He wasn't great on Friday night by any stretch of the imagination, but people are willing to write off half a season based on a NAB Cup game, because it's popular to do so.

[mercs]

Not at all. I'm willing to argue any point I make at great length. However, some of the posts in the "Weekly Laycock Whinge" thread were cringeworthy, and Slattery is going down the same path.

He wasn't great on Friday night by any stretch of the imagination, but people are willing to write off half a season based on a NAB Cup game, because it's popular to do so.

Gees no need to write anyone off its just the NAB cup (another word for a practice match) anyone that plays the game know's that.
Its about getting a bit of touch of the footy and most of all match practice.

[Ben the Gooner]

Gees no need to write anyone off its just the NAB cup (another word for a practice match) anyone that plays the game know's that.
Its about getting a bit of touch of the footy and most of all match practice.

Exactly, yet Slats got roundly crucified on here.

[loopy_cam]

And all Nat-rat's criticism is justified?

[Ben the Gooner]

No, not all of it, but, personally, I prefer someone like Slats who is an honest trier, to someone like NLM who gives away stupid, undisciplined free kicks so often.

[loopy_cam]

I think you're missing alot of NLM's good points.

He provides very good rebound and when he is not forced to play in a key position he defends quite well.

[bomba4eva]

Gumbleton will be playing across half forward pushing onto the wings with his good endurance. Lloyd will do a similar thing and play on half forward and as we saw last year with how effective Lloyd played the role pushingup the ground he will continue to do this in 2009. Lucas can play CHF and one year out of the game isn't going to make him lose all his talent which brought us two consecutive 60+ goal seasons. Neagle will put himself in the goal square playing at FF presenting a strong target deep inside 50. Our two forward pockets will be Jetta and Davey both playing extremely important roles this year with our taller setup.

This is what I believe our forward line will look like.

[mercs]

Gumbleton will be playing across half forward pushing onto the wings with his good endurance. Lloyd will do a similar thing and play on half forward and as we saw last year with how effective Lloyd played the role pushingup the ground he will continue to do this in 2009. Lucas can play CHF and one year out of the game isn't going to make him lose all his talent which brought us two consecutive 60+ goal seasons. Neagle will put himself in the goal square playing at FF presenting a strong target deep inside 50. Our two forward pockets will be Jetta and Davey both playing extremely important roles this year with our taller setup.

This is what I believe our forward line will look like.

spot for monfries there? and McPhee down back

[Ben the Gooner]

I think you're missing alot of NLM's good points.

He provides very good rebound and when he is not forced to play in a key position he defends quite well.

Agreed, and I think to a large extent he's been a victim of Sheeds' lack of key backs. Nat-rat should never have had to go near a key defensive position.

[shad518]

Yeh i have to agree with most of that. With the small forward role being rotated between Jetta, Davey, Monfries, Reimers and maybe a few of our new guys.
I can see McPhee, Ryder and even Lovett-Murray pushing up as well when needed (to make up for injured or out of form forwards). And of course with the help of the resting ruckman.
Pretty exciting. Nothing but injury will be able to stop that goal-kicking force.