View Full Version : What of Patty Ryder?
Big Blow Hard
7 Mar 2009, 10:47
What to people see as Patty Ryder's best position?
Bearing in mind he is still young and developing. He is really struggling in the key position defensive roles. He is just not doing the stopping job required or picking up nearly enough possesion across the back IMO.
Is he a backman? It is obvious he has silky skills and could be a fantastic player for us in the long term, but is he better suited up forward? In the ruck? or as a sweeping Sean wellman type of roaming defender?
I expect there will be lots of differing opinion on this, but I think it needs to be discussed.
bomberbilly
7 Mar 2009, 11:00
What to people see as Patty Ryder's best position?
Bearing in mind he is still young and developing. He is really struggling in the key position defensive roles. He is just not doing the stopping job required or picking up nearly enough possesion across the back IMO.
Is he a backman? It is obvious he has silky skills and could be a fantastic player for us in the long term, but is he better suited up forward? In the ruck? or as a sweeping Sean wellman type of roaming defender?
I expect there will be lots of differing opinion on this, but I think it needs to be discussed.
i just think he is far too talented to be locked down in a key position role. we need to unleash the beast. I fear we are holding him back. UNLEASH THE BEAST!
kelvin_sheedy
7 Mar 2009, 11:02
He was good last night for mine. He was great in Round 1, average in round 2 and good again last night.
He conceded one goal on Anthony when he was running back to cover. He should have stopped and cut of his lead.
He spoiled Cloke on a number of occassions and was doing a reasonable job on him. NLM cannonned into Cloke to give away a free and a shot at goal after Ryder had spoiled the mark.
He kicked a 9 point goal, 8 disposals at %100 efficiency, 5 1%'s which was 1 less than Hille who had a game high 6 for us. Collingwood had 53 1%'s compared to us with a total of 34 :thumbsd:
He could be a star in the back half or even forward half. Best position currently is where he is now. Leave him play out the whole year there. :thumbsu:
Ben the Gooner
7 Mar 2009, 11:12
He's a very good defender in the making, but if Pears, Hurley and Daniher/Hooker/other really step up, I'd like to see him playing completely free like Goodes does.
Until then CHB.
Also, it's Paddy
Windas_Magic
7 Mar 2009, 11:27
I thought he was good last night. Much better than last week anyway.
He will be playing CHB. If we move him forward then we will be relying on Hurley or Pears to hold the backline together, which they simply won't do.
clearly CHB with no other position a consideration IMO
Colin D'Cops
7 Mar 2009, 12:07
In a perfect world, I'd like to see him float around HB and have less stress on his shoulders. With Dustin & possibly Hurley coming into the side at times, it should take a bit off his shoulders. He struggles with the pressure of the game on the last line of defence. He still thinks he needs to run off and create on the last line all the time, but that cannot be done when the ball consistantly gets kicked in long and direct from opposition clubs.
If he was only given a minor role in defence (eg. HB), he would be able to create and run all he wants because his poise and class would shine. But in the state we're in at the moment, he won't get that opportunity for quite sometime until a couple of Pears/Daniher/Hooker/Hurley stand up.
In a perfect world, I'd like to see him float around HB and have less stress on his shoulders. With Dustin & possibly Hurley coming into the side at times, it should take a bit off his shoulders. He struggles with the pressure of the game on the last line of defence. He still thinks he needs to run off and create on the last line all the time, but that cannot be done when the ball consistantly gets kicked in long and direct from opposition clubs.
In a team that isn't as bereft of quality KP defenders as Essendon that's exactly the role I would imagine Paddy would play.
Something along the lines of an Andrew Mackie type, but better.
Wahooti Fandango
7 Mar 2009, 12:30
If he can get his endurance up, I think he could play a Richo style game on the wing. He is quick, takes a good mark and has great skills and decision making. When were were trying to get a hold of Brennan a few years back we said we would give him freedom on the wing. I think Ryder is a similar player to Brennan, but better. This way he could play, back, forward and ruck. :thumbsu:
CHF for me
I have two questions on him.
Does he really want to be playing over here in Melbourne and will he ever have the intensity to be a good defender.
At the momnet for me it does not look like he enjoys playing defence. Lets hope that Hurley, Pears and Daniher can stand up reasonably quickly.
Daytripper
7 Mar 2009, 18:09
clearly CHB with no other position a consideration IMO
Disagree. Best position is forward. Probably the best kick for goal in the team. Yet to see a decent key position indigineous defender. They just aren't suited to that role.
Will probably be a Luke McPharlin type for the next 5-6 seasons.
I have two questions on him.
Does he really want to be playing over here in Melbourne
Where's that come from?
In a perfect world, I'd like to see him float around HB and have less stress on his shoulders. With Dustin & possibly Hurley coming into the side at times, it should take a bit off his shoulders. He struggles with the pressure of the game on the last line of defence. He still thinks he needs to run off and create on the last line all the time, but that cannot be done when the ball consistantly gets kicked in long and direct from opposition clubs.
If he was only given a minor role in defence (eg. HB), he would be able to create and run all he wants because his poise and class would shine. But in the state we're in at the moment, he won't get that opportunity for quite sometime until a couple of Pears/Daniher/Hooker/Hurley stand up.
I agree with your sentiments, but Paddy needs more intensity allowing him to run and create.
EFC have big problems clearing the ball from HB, and he is one of the better kicks in defence, but does he have the intensity to work hard enough to get off his man and be one of the designated kickers.
He gets few handball receives during games !
Colin D'Cops
7 Mar 2009, 20:45
I agree with your sentiments, but Paddy needs more intensity allowing him to run and create.
Intensity isn't necessarily required to be good at that roaming HB role IMO. (See Mundy & Scotland) But I think his aggression is the main query with him, he's a little timid which gives the impression he has low intensity around the ground. But with a more successful side around him, less pressure on his shoulders being let loose off the HBF and some added experience, his state of mind can still change.
Intensity isn't necessarily required to be good at that roaming HB role IMO. (See Mundy & Scotland) But I think his aggression is the main query with him, he's a little timid which gives the impression he has low intensity around the ground. But with a more successful side around him, less pressure on his shoulders being let loose off the HBF and some added experience, his state of mind can still change.
I hope it does change his state of mind.
I am not as worried as other people about his one on one capabilities - I think he is more than adequate.
I want him to run off and create more often ( which has an element of intensity ) because his kicking skills can help EFC lower turnovers from the HB line.
Colin D'Cops
7 Mar 2009, 21:42
I want him to run off and create more often ( which has an element of intensity ) because his kicking skills can help EFC lower turnovers from the HB line.
Yep, couldn't agree more.
loopy_cam
8 Mar 2009, 10:55
At the moment, keep him where he is.
Where's that come from?
Observations of what i have seen around the club and a bit of talk from within the club.
dont think he is overly fantastic as a key back, nor is he suited to a key back and I can quitely guarantee he doesnt like playing as a key back.
But he is there because we need him there, not that he is suited there.
He is clearly an offensive minded, creative player and struggled with the lock down role of minded a key forward. His best is when he can be creative, which is extremely limited.
He has publicly stated he wants to play on the ball and thinks he is best suited there.
In short, IMHO he is the biggest waste of a talent at the club, in reference to the way he is utilised.
His natural strengths can be better used up the ground as a second and in the forward line.
Im worried keeping him stuck in his current position will allow him not to develop where he should be developing.
And if it continues, nobody can hardly blame him for wanting to leave.
I'd look to throw Hurley, Daniher and Pears into the deep end, where they can have a crack with little expected of them. I liked the bit of mongrel I saw in Daniher on the weekend, and release Ryder.
Or else he will be released...to another club. And I cant blame the kid.
Trade him for McKinnley :D
yodellinhank
8 Mar 2009, 12:10
Are Paddy and Leroy best mates? That's the impression i got from the bomber magazine. Would have thought the opportunity to play elite footy at a club with your best mate would make the living away from "home" easier.
Colin D'Cops
8 Mar 2009, 12:54
In the Bomber mag, who won the Gus caption competition?
anything_4_premierships
8 Mar 2009, 13:04
i just think he is far too talented to be locked down in a key position role. we need to unleash the beast. I fear we are holding him back. UNLEASH THE BEAST!
Let him play all over the ground cos he's too skinny and fragile in the back! He's better just running around the packs! :thumbsu:
Big Blow Hard
8 Mar 2009, 14:45
He's a very good defender in the making, but if Pears, Hurley and Daniher/Hooker/other really step up, I'd like to see him playing completely free like Goodes does.
Until then CHB.
Also, it's Paddy
Not that it;s important. But I'll agree to disagree on this. His name is Patrick, not Padrick. The accepted shortening in my mostly Irish family is Patty. But I do appreciate many others go with Paddy. :p
Ben the Gooner
8 Mar 2009, 14:59
Mr Ryder tends to go with Paddy, so I'll go with that.
Patty sounds more like Patti to me.
Big Blow Hard
8 Mar 2009, 15:00
Mr Ryder tends to go with Paddy, so I'll go with that.
Patty sounds more like Patti to me.
Good to see we are focusing on the important stuff. lol :p
bomba4eva
8 Mar 2009, 15:12
clearly CHB with no other position a consideration IMO
I'd have a good hard look at CHF to be honest.
Ben the Gooner
8 Mar 2009, 15:19
I'd have a good hard look at CHF to be honest.
Not until Lloydy and Lucas retire I think. There's simply too much competition, and Neagle and Gumby need the gametime Ryder's been afforded.
Needs a little kick in the bum.
Doesn't like to stick the fist in for a spoil when there is more than just his opponent it seems. With more aggro he could be crashing a few more packs and getting a few more spoils.
Getting beat on the lead doesn't faze me as much as it does others because it happens to all defenders and it is hard to watch the opponent and the play at the same time, but when I see him pull up a bit coming towards and pack and see Trav Cloke go for broke and end up pulling in a nice grab it starts to urk me, give him some angry pills already.
Not that it's important. But I'll agree to disagree on this. His name is Patrick, not Padrick. The accepted shortening in my mostly Irish family is Patty. But I do appreciate many others go with Paddy. :p
No, it isn't, it's paddy. Patty just sounds silly.
See here: http://moxyfilms.blogspot.com/2007/03/paddy-boy-patty-girl.html
MasonHindell
8 Mar 2009, 16:46
CHF for me
I have two questions on him.
Does he really want to be playing over here in Melbourne and will he ever have the intensity to be a good defender.
At the momnet for me it does not look like he enjoys playing defence. Lets hope that Hurley, Pears and Daniher can stand up reasonably quickly.
I dont think paddy ryder will have it in him to play CHF. They should keep him at CHB, Essendon needs to reassure our backline.
Getting beat on the lead doesn't faze me as much as it does others because it happens to all defenders and it is hard to watch the opponent and the play at the same time, but when I see him pull up a bit coming towards and pack and see Trav Cloke go for broke and end up pulling in a nice grab it starts to urk me, give him some angry pills already.
And that incident you are talking about Cloke led him to the ball once again, that's why he was able to fly for the mark because Ryder wasn't close enough to put body pressure on and impede his jump.
Watch the third quarter with 7.35 to go.
Paddy runs back to guard Anthony, Anthony just runs off him and leads him to the ball once again, mark, goal.
A truly pathetic effort [Edit] Effort is the wrong word and attempt doesn't cover it either.
Ben the Gooner
8 Mar 2009, 18:04
Dempsey did the same late in the last quarter, except he didn't even try to go with Thomas. He just watched his man stand on his own 25 metres from goal, then take an uncontested mark, and slot a goal.
Abysmal defence.
yodellinhank
8 Mar 2009, 22:39
And that incident you are talking about Cloke led him to the ball once again, that's why he was able to fly for the mark because Ryder wasn't close enough to put body pressure on and impede his jump.
Watch the third quarter with 7.35 to go.
Paddy runs back to guard Anthony, Anthony just runs off him and leads him to the ball once again, mark, goal.
A truly pathetic effort [Edit] Effort is the wrong word and attempt doesn't cover it either.
Beginning to see what you've been on about Merv. The only thing i would say, however, is that Ryder does not have the bulk on him to play that body on body style. Most AFL key forwards would simply monster him out of the contest if he tried this. Instead he plays off his opponent and relies on his pace and leap to be able to make a contest. However In the occasion you mentioned he simply did not have the awareness and was caught out.
Unless he can develop either a stronger body or better defensive awareness, then i totally agree with your concerns on him playing deep in defence.
Needs a little kick in the bum.
Doesn't like to stick the fist in for a spoil when there is more than just his opponent it seems. With more aggro he could be crashing a few more packs and getting a few more spoils.
Getting beat on the lead doesn't faze me as much as it does others because it happens to all defenders and it is hard to watch the opponent and the play at the same time, but when I see him pull up a bit coming towards and pack and see Trav Cloke go for broke and end up pulling in a nice grab it starts to urk me, give him some angry pills already.
I think that if you look at the stats for spoils ( stats aren't everything ) he is more than adequate.
Ryder lacks intensity and needs to be more involved in the game; ie; running for handball receives in the back line.
I would have liked to have seen Ryder freed up on half back or playing on the wing.
I just don't think he has the body to play on a key forward right now.
He's still very young, so I think it's worth trying these things.
I dont think paddy ryder will have it in him to play CHF. They should keep him at CHB, Essendon needs to reassure our backline.
What does he not have to play at CHF.
Great leap, mobile, good kick for goal, good mark.
At the moment he simply doesnt think like a defender all the time and forwards get on top of him very easily.
He cant play ruck becasue even though he wins the taps he has no idea about the around the ground work.
Yeah, I've always wanted to see him play a few games in a row up forward and a future forward line of Neagle, Gumbleton and Ryder does seem exciting, unfrotunately with Lloyd and Lucas still hanging around the opportunities to play there are scarce.
Frazenoast
9 Mar 2009, 14:25
Yeah, I've always wanted to see him play a few games in a row up forward and a future forward line of Neagle, Gumbleton and Ryder does seem exciting, unfrotunately with Lloyd and Lucas still hanging around the opportunities to play there are scarce.
He does have the ability to play up forward, and even dominate there. His agility and leap accorss the half forward line would be just the thing we are looking for on the 50m line up to the centre of the ground. It seems that point of our game is lacking (based on NAB cup performences) But we do need him down back for now. Warney7 you are right about him playing half backline/wing. Would LOVE to see some run from him this year...
Ryder to lovett inboard to gumbleton on 50m mark, hands off to dyson. what a running goal. Hope that happens this year!!!!:)
What does he not have to play at CHF.
Great leap, mobile, good kick for goal, good mark.
At the moment he simply doesnt think like a defender all the time and forwards get on top of him very easily.
He cant play ruck becasue even though he wins the taps he has no idea about the around the ground work.
You are suggesting that Ryder doesn't have the footy smarts to play as a ruck - Would this be different up forward ?
Who would replace Ryder in defence ?
bomberstomake8
9 Mar 2009, 15:05
What does he not have to play at CHF.
Great leap, mobile, good kick for goal, good mark.
At the moment he simply doesnt think like a defender all the time and forwards get on top of him very easily.
He cant play ruck becasue even though he wins the taps he has no idea about the around the ground work.
yeah but whats different if he is goign to play KP forward?
yes i agree he has no idea about around the ground work and his taps arent effective as of yet but he is barely played ruck, these things take time
you asked what he doesnt have to play CHF?
i question his timing of leads, i question his ability to make space for others and i question his ability to crash packs and hurt defenders who get in his way which i think all KP forwards need to do. personally i think forwards need as much or more grunt then defenders especially KP forwards and as we have stated paddy doesnt have that grunt.
personally i would like to see him in a goodes type role or ruck, i think we need to leave him in the one position though and not keep switching him around
What does he not have to play at CHF.
Great leap, mobile, good kick for goal, good mark.
At the moment he simply doesnt think like a defender all the time and forwards get on top of him very easily.
He cant play ruck becasue even though he wins the taps he has no idea about the around the ground work.
Agree. And I refer back to the first half of the Adelaide game late last year up forward and a couple of other around that time. He had a presence.
He looked so dangerous. I loved the ball being bombed down to him because you know he is going to stand on someones head and atleast bring the ball to ground.
The only problem was he dropped half a dozen marks that game he would have normally eaten for breakfast. He was then moved down back onto Gill in the 2nd half and had his ass handed to him.
kelvin_sheedy
9 Mar 2009, 15:52
Heck lets put him forward. :thumbsu:
Daniher's played his best footy forward also. Put him there.
Gumbelton, Neagle forward.
McPhee looks like a forward now.
Hurley.. might be too slow to play key defence but forward looks an option.
Heck we might have the biggest and best group of forwards ever assembled. Pity there's no one to kick it to them. Hmmm, modern game, run run run keep possession. Classy mids where art thou?
bipolarbeaR
9 Mar 2009, 16:39
Ryder is not positioned to use his strengths which is THE most important thing to do.
Strengths: Pace (over 50m-100m, not 20m), Leap, Mark, Kick for goal.
Weaknesses: Strength, accountability, effort, positioning.
Wing or roaming tall imo.
bipolarbeaR
9 Mar 2009, 16:41
Stuff it, lets flood the forward half and middle of the field and have 1 defender.
Big Blow Hard
9 Mar 2009, 18:12
Heck lets put him forward. :thumbsu:
Daniher's played his best footy forward also. Put him there.
Gumbelton, Neagle forward.
McPhee looks like a forward now.
Hurley.. might be too slow to play key defence but forward looks an option.
Heck we might have the biggest and best group of forwards ever assembled. Pity there's no one to kick it to them. Hmmm, modern game, run run run keep possession. Classy mids where art thou?
Actually, I kinda had Pears down as a likely forward also. :D
yeah but whats different if he is goign to play KP forward?
yes i agree he has no idea about around the ground work and his taps arent effective as of yet but he is barely played ruck, these things take time
you asked what he doesnt have to play CHF?
i question his timing of leads, i question his ability to make space for others and i question his ability to crash packs and hurt defenders who get in his way which i think all KP forwards need to do. personally i think forwards need as much or more grunt then defenders especially KP forwards and as we have stated paddy doesnt have that grunt.
personally i would like to see him in a goodes type role or ruck, i think we need to leave him in the one position though and not keep switching him around
You ever see him play under 18 footy ?
He will never be a Goodes type ruckman. Does not have the footy smarts or work rate around the ground. When he rucked at under 18's he rarely got over 15 possesions.
As far as him playing forward he gives you something different than a crash and bash forward. Ever heard of a high marking CHF ?
Your description of forwards is that of a fast fading beast.
Not many hard hitting forwards left in the game.
Ryder has actually shown in a few quarters here and there at AFL level that he is actually very good as a forward.
Ben the Gooner
9 Mar 2009, 18:26
For Ryder, Neagle and Gumbleton to make a truly effective forwardline, Gumbleton would need to put on a fair bit of muscle, and be a bash and crash type, or Neagle would need to improve his engine enough to be a CHF, and have Gumbleton as the leading forward.
I think that should either of those happen, having the leading forward, the bash and crash forward, and the X-Factor roaming forward would be deadly.
However, a leading forward, and two roaming forwards would be a bit unbalanced.
Maybe kelvin was onto something with putting Hurley forward.:p
You are suggesting that Ryder doesn't have the footy smarts to play as a ruck - Would this be different up forward ?
Who would replace Ryder in defence ?
Whats different up forward you ask. As a forward he can use his best asset, leap and mark. He reads the flights of the ball well and has done well as a forward in a couple of games.
Footy smarts for around the game play in the ruck and playing KP forward are two totaly different things.
As far as who replaces him in defence , anyone. I would rather not see another player destroyed in the manor that Bradley was. Ryder is not a great defender. He is not happy playing defence and rarely manages to concentrate on a defending role for more than 70% of the game.
He never played defence before he came to us and has basicly survived there through his athletic ability so far.
kelvin_sheedy
9 Mar 2009, 18:34
Was he lying when he said CHB was his preferred position?
Was he lying when he said CHB was his preferred position?
You can belive what you want but if he continues to play back and gets bags kicked against him then you can watch him run back to WA as soon as he can.
He has never come out and said i want to play CHB!!
FootyGuru
9 Mar 2009, 19:12
im talking future at the moment but play ryder half forward and have him lead up the ground using pace and leap. play gumby as a deeper forward not quite full forward not quite centre half forward. play the resting ruckman hille or laycock who have both shown signs as handy forwards.
have neagle play as a hunter type player work on his defensive side of his game and swap him around, he has the size, pace of the mark and marking to play as a key back key forward and a running player defence or forward also.
and in the back half hope that hurley can be our full back and pears can be our centre half back. plus we have hooker and daniher as possibles. thoughts?
Big Blow Hard
9 Mar 2009, 19:13
Was he lying when he said CHB was his preferred position?
Maybe toeing the company line. So to speak.
He has never come out and said i want to play CHB!!
i'm sure i've read that he has.
sadly i can't remember the source but i think it was a bomber magazine or something.
knights sat him down and asked him where he wanted to play and ryder answered center half back as i recall
i'm sure i've read that he has.
sadly i can't remember the source but i think it was a bomber magazine or something.
knights sat him down and asked him where he wanted to play and ryder answered center half back as i recall
Yeah I think it was a Bomber magazine, but even at the time I thought it sounded more like a club decision that he was willing to go along with than a totally individual "this is where I want to play" statement. Which is fine, it showed he was willing to fit into the team, but the quote was something along the lines of "Knighta and I sat down and and came to the conclusion that CHB is probably the best spot for me going forward" or something to that effect.
Even at the time I thought the language made it sound more like a team structural desicion that Paddy's own choice, which is fine as long as he is happy there but I share concerns that he is not a true KPD and as ant555 said if he keeps getting scored on like he did last year it could cause problems between the club and him.
the important thing is i didn't imagine it
Ben the Gooner
9 Mar 2009, 20:50
the important thing is i didn't imagine it
I love that line.:D
Ludwig van Bertstare
9 Mar 2009, 20:55
I don't care what we do with him, just as long as my username doesn't become an embarrassment.
Ben the Gooner
9 Mar 2009, 21:02
If it does, you can alway become RydEr_ iS_hOt_lulz;)
Colin D'Cops
9 Mar 2009, 21:02
That's easy fixed Ryder_Is_God. Just shorten your username to RIG, like Merv did with Merv_Neagle. Easy done my friend. But, you won't need to. Of that I am sure.
Ludwig van Bertstare
9 Mar 2009, 21:11
I could just move on to my next victim... Reimers Is God.
Wanna B Hird
9 Mar 2009, 22:36
It concerns me the amount of bagging Paddy cops, we are starting to sound like Richmond supporters, at least they last until round 3 before they eat their own.
Firstly I think Paddy's a star, not a champion(yet), having said that I dont think KPD is his position, as a roaming defender or better yet roaming forward would suit his style. For him to be a forward would be difficult in our side so I think maybe Gumby in the back line would not only be good for team balance but he would gain valuble experiene playing on the gun forwards.
bomberstomake8
9 Mar 2009, 23:49
You ever see him play under 18 footy ?
He will never be a Goodes type ruckman. Does not have the footy smarts or work rate around the ground. When he rucked at under 18's he rarely got over 15 possesions.
As far as him playing forward he gives you something different than a crash and bash forward. Ever heard of a high marking CHF ?
Your description of forwards is that of a fast fading beast.
Not many hard hitting forwards left in the game.
Ryder has actually shown in a few quarters here and there at AFL level that he is actually very good as a forward.
nah i didnt se him in under 18s footy so i cant comment but i think you exagerated my opinion are bit there iwasnt referring to the gorilla forwards when i said crash and bash i was stating that imo all forwards need to make defenders earn the ball and need to show that if defenders get in their way that they are going to be hurt... pretty much all the good forwards currently do that, lloyd fevola brown etc are probably the better at it but even franklin cloke etc do it.
i have heard of a high marking CHF but i still stand by my point that all KP forwards need to smash packs and make defenders know that if they get in their way they will be hurt.
i think he will be really good as a forward dont get me wrong but i also think he will be a really good defender as well, better forward or better defender i dont know.
he still has lots to learn in each area
Firstly I think Paddy's a star, not a champion(yet),
What is it that makes you think he is a star?
Is it getting bags kicked on him?
Is it averaging about 10 possessions a game?
Is it being too nervous to take possession of the ball so he taps it along giving up possession?
Dropping easy marks?
Hand balling directly to opponents?
Dropping his head when things go against him and letting his game fall away?
I said it last year. The hype on Ryder by Essendon supporters is ridiculous and it's because he is such a smooth mover and looks good rather than output.
Smyth94
10 Mar 2009, 09:23
What is it that makes you think he is a star?
Is it getting bags kicked on him?
Is it averaging about 10 possessions a game?
Is it being too nervous to take possession of the ball so he taps it along giving up possession?
Dropping easy marks?
Hand balling directly to opponents?
Dropping his head when things go against him and letting his game fall away?
I said it last year. The hype on Ryder by Essendon supporters is ridiculous and it's because he is such a smooth mover and looks good rather than output.
I agree with most of your observations except for:
1. Dropping easy marks? Really?
2. Hand balling directly to opponents? I think you're confusing Dempsey with Ryder
centurion
10 Mar 2009, 09:26
I think our lack of midfield quality, turnovers and lack of midfield pressure is making our defenders look rather mediocre. Not just Ryder.
Merv is right to a certain extent. Once we get our middle sorted out then our defence and Ryder will look a lot better imo.
I agree with most of your observations except for:
1. Dropping easy marks? Really?
2. Hand balling directly to opponents? I think you're confusing Dempsey with Ryder
Yes, he does drop easy marks or fumbles them and just hangs on. I feel this is mainly due to his confidence at the time as he can of course take hangars but he certainly doesn't clamp onto the ball when he marks.
He hand balled directly to Didak on Friday night, Goal, he did it coming across goal in a game last year, can't remember who it was against, and has done it prior to that and even as far back as when he hand balled directly to Whitnall in a NAB cup game for a goal when they beat us by 4 points.
I really thought he would make a CHB, never saw him as a last line player, but i'm almost convinced now he needs to be removed from the backline for his confidence more than anything else.
Wanna B Hird
10 Mar 2009, 10:54
What is it that makes you think he is a star?
I think most Bombers are stars, besides Fletch he is our best defender by a mile
Is it getting bags kicked on him?
He has had a few kicked on him; though in games such as against Buddy he held his own until he was moved Buddy then has a purple patch witch makes him look bad
Is it averaging about 10 possessions a game?
What is it with people and stats they mean f### all to a KPD
Is it being too nervous to take possession of the ball so he taps it along giving up possession?
Agree needs confidence
Dropping easy marks?
Top 5 safest hands at EFC
Hand balling directly to opponents?
Very rare
Dropping his head when things go against him and letting his game fall away?
Excuse me for not noticing this, not to say it hasnt happend
I said it last year. The hype on Ryder by Essendon supporters is ridiculous and it's because he is such a smooth mover and looks good rather than output.
Paddy has shown enough to suggest he is a very good player, he like many others has a bit to work on but he deserves the hype. Like earlier mentioned if we get it right in the middle it will release pressure on our backs.
Who will you target next,Gumby? I think he has enormous potential but shown SFA atm.
I dont hear you bagging Stanton, Slatts, Mcpee who continously turn it over
Paddy has shown enough to suggest he is a very good player, he like many others has a bit to work on but he deserves the hype. Like earlier mentioned if we get it right in the middle it will release pressure on our backs.
Who will you target next,Gumby? I think he has enormous potential but shown SFA atm.
I dont hear you bagging Stanton, Slatts, Mcpee who continously turn it over
You didn't suggest he was a very good player, and he isn't, you called him a star and intimated a soon to be champion.
You also didn't provide one single example of why he is a star all you did was deflect my post that i am attacking Ryder only.
The reason i have harped on a bit about Ryder is because he is made out to be this superstar by a lot of Essendon supporters without backing it up with anything of substance and it's all hype.
Gumbleton has hardly had a chance to show anything yet while Ryder is in his fourth season and has hardly missed a game.
I don't continually bag players but what i generally do is point out players weaknesses and express doubts on them prior to others.
I have been asking for us to trade McPhee for 2 years, i did the same thing with Hislop as i have with Ryder and last year when the HYPE was all over Dyson, i didn't jump on the bandwagon with the others, and why would i bag Stanton as his disposal is pretty good mostly.
How about you back up your statement with something solid? Why is Ryder a star or as you now backtrack to, a very good player?
Smyth94
10 Mar 2009, 11:38
Yes, he does drop easy marks or fumbles them and just hangs on. I feel this is mainly due to his confidence at the time as he can of course take hangars but he certainly doesn't clamp onto the ball when he marks.
Against the Dogs a couple of weeks ago, Ryder's hands were fantastic - there were 3 or 4 occasions where Ryder was the go-to man for Fletch and he gobbled each one up. It's all about consistency.
He hand balled directly to Didak on Friday night, Goal, he did it coming across goal in a game last year, can't remember who it was against, and has done it prior to that and even as far back as when he hand balled directly to Whitnall in a NAB cup game for a goal when they beat us by 4 points.
We'll agree to disagree, I've seen Ryder pluck the ball out of a contest and cooly handpass it to a teammate many more times than I have seen him cough it up.
I really thought he would make a CHB, never saw him as a last line player, but i'm almost convinced now he needs to be removed from the backline for his confidence more than anything else.
I'm beginning to think he'd make a better forward than defender as he simply doesn't have the discipline to play key back - but we'll just see how he goes this year - quite frankly we don't have any other viable long term options.
Colin D'Cops
10 Mar 2009, 18:22
Hand balling directly to opponents?
Agree on most points mentioned Merv, but I haven't seen him do that all that often. Sure, he did do it last NAB Cup game but we were really under the pump. Our midfield lacked quality supply, our midfielders again lacked a defensive side to their game/s and as such we rightly got burnt on the rebound.
When you are constantly getting burnt on the rebound, and have little support, I'm sure even the legend that is Hirdy would make a mistake or two. Lets not get too harsh here; He certainly is far from a champion but he has got a lot of potential with a capital 'P'. Hasn't lived up to all the hype as of yet, but certainly is showing signs of coming into his own.
Colin D'Cops
10 Mar 2009, 18:34
We'll agree to disagree, I've seen Ryder pluck the ball out of a contest and cooly handpass it to a teammate many more times than I have seen him cough it up.
I agree on the above point.
Don't take all the points in that post as me saying he is crap at this or that, i was using them as examples of why he isn't a star. Let's hope he becomes one.
Wanna B Hird
10 Mar 2009, 20:29
Merv, if you look at your quote #68 I stuft the reply up where I answered all your questions, they are my opinion only and maybe I did jump the gun a bit by calling him a star but I do think he is a very very good player(if there is a difference):D
Merv, if you look at your quote #68 I stuft the reply up where I answered all your questions, they are my opinion only and maybe I did jump the gun a bit by calling him a star but I do think he is a very very good player(if there is a difference):D
No probs mate.
I've had my say on Paddy now and will drop the subject.
bipolarbeaR
10 Mar 2009, 20:57
I hate Paddy Ryder now and it's all your fault Merv :(
Agree on most points mentioned Merv, but I haven't seen him do that all that often. Sure, he did do it last NAB Cup game but we were really under the pump. Our midfield lacked quality supply, our midfielders again lacked a defensive side to their game/s and as such we rightly got burnt on the rebound.
When you are constantly getting burnt on the rebound, and have little support, I'm sure even the legend that is Hirdy would make a mistake or two. Lets not get too harsh here; He certainly is far from a champion but he has got a lot of potential with a capital 'P'. Hasn't lived up to all the hype as of yet, but certainly is showing signs of coming into his own.
I have said this many times - But if Ryder can turn out to be a Trent Croad type player - He will be a success in the backline !
The coaching staff need to be strong and continually play him in defence - As he has the tools to be successful IF he can lift his intensity.
Colin D'Cops
11 Mar 2009, 07:05
I have said this many times - But if Ryder can turn out to be a Trent Croad type player - He will be a success in the backline !
The coaching staff need to be strong and continually play him in defence - As he has the tools to be successful IF he can lift his intensity.
If Ryder can turn out anywhere near Croad's heights, I'll be happy.
And as I have said before, I don't think his intensity is the main problem here. I think it's his aggression, because he lacks a little in that regard it makes him look like his intensity is poor.
If Ryder can turn out anywhere near Croad's heights, I'll be happy.
And as I have said before, I don't think his intensity is the main problem here. I think it's his aggression, because he lacks a little in that regard it makes him look like his intensity is poor.
It could be both intensity and aggression.
__aria__
12 Mar 2009, 00:35
every time i watch essendon i cant get over how badly out of position ryder is being played
he looked good every time ive seen him up forward and id like to see him kicking those 60m goals like on the weekend
swap him with gumby who looks completely lost in the fwd line at times he was a very capable chb in his junior years
Jonesy1987
12 Mar 2009, 02:41
Wouldn't mind Knights testing him out in tall wingman role, hopefully provide a link up out of defense.
every time i watch essendon i cant get over how badly out of position ryder is being played
he looked good every time ive seen him up forward and id like to see him kicking those 60m goals like on the weekend
swap him with gumby who looks completely lost in the fwd line at times he was a very capable chb in his junior years
Ryder has no idea how to play forward !
Smyth94
12 Mar 2009, 07:39
Ryder has no idea how to play forward !
Rubbish
Smyth94
12 Mar 2009, 07:42
every time i watch essendon i cant get over how badly out of position ryder is being played
he looked good every time ive seen him up forward and id like to see him kicking those 60m goals like on the weekend
swap him with gumby who looks completely lost in the fwd line at times he was a very capable chb in his junior years
How has he looked lost? Give him some time to develop in the role
Big Blow Hard
12 Mar 2009, 08:33
How has he looked lost? Give him some time to develop in the role
Now come on Smyth94. The BF experts seem to agree, if you don't kick a bag of goals in your first two games, then clearly you are no good as a forward. Maybe John Coleman is one of the few true forwards to ever play. :p
Ryder has no idea how to play forward !
He has looked ok to me when he has played the odd quarter forward and he did ok as a tall forward when he was not in the ruck in his junior days.
The Donners
12 Mar 2009, 09:51
every time i watch essendon i cant get over how badly out of position ryder is being played
he looked good every time ive seen him up forward and id like to see him kicking those 60m goals like on the weekend
swap him with gumby who looks completely lost in the fwd line at times he was a very capable chb in his junior years
Ryder has no idea how to play forward !
What annoys me is people are judging Gumbleton based on 2 NAB Cup games.
Ryder needs to toughen up and stop trying to look good.
Kruzering
12 Mar 2009, 10:09
I reckon he should play a loose back standing on the 50, using his atleticism to cut off leads or atleast force them wide.
If he doesn't do well in that role you could always build a time machine, go back to 93 and kidnap flecter.
I can't see him starring anywhere but the backline.
Big Blow Hard
12 Mar 2009, 10:30
What annoys me is people are judging Gumbleton based on 2 NAB Cup games.
.
They conveniently forget the potential he showed in the few games he was able to play last season.
The Donners
12 Mar 2009, 11:26
I reckon he should play a loose back standing on the 50, using his atleticism to cut off leads or atleast force them wide.
If he doesn't do well in that role you could always build a time machine, go back to 93 and kidnap flecter.
I can't see him starring anywhere but the backline.
Though I like your option, is Ryder playing loose in the midfield ala Goodes that far beyond the realms of possibility?
He has looked ok to me when he has played the odd quarter forward and he did ok as a tall forward when he was not in the ruck in his junior days.
We want him to better than OK.
He needs to be good to very good.
I beleieve that his role is Defence, Ruck and then forward.
IbbosBFF
13 Mar 2009, 01:22
Interesting thread you guys have here. Anyone interesting in tackling a few hypotheticals?
What if Ryder plays a full season in defense this year, form is around the same. Same issues but same potential, doesn't really improve on his deficiency. At the end of the year, you guys might be thinking he could be holding back the development of your other key position prospects.
Fremantle will be looking for forwards next year, if we offered you a early 2nd (another pick 23 say) rounder in the last uncomprimised draft before GC. Would it be considered? Or throw out the window quickly? How do you guys feel about it?
Also, just wondering when Ryder does come out of contract?
Ludwig van Bertstare
13 Mar 2009, 01:34
You can have him for Stephen Hill.
dave_27
13 Mar 2009, 07:15
.no.
Smyth94
13 Mar 2009, 08:01
We want him to better than OK.
He needs to be good to very good.
I beleieve that his role is Defence, Ruck and then forward.
Yeah but you haven't given him the chance to be 'better than OK' - you can't move Ryer around like a chessboard piece and expect him to start dominating instantly.
Smyth94
13 Mar 2009, 08:03
Fremantle will be looking for forwards next year, if we offered you a early 2nd (another pick 23 say) rounder in the last uncomprimised draft before GC. Would it be considered? Or throw out the window quickly? How do you guys feel about it?
Also, just wondering when Ryder does come out of contract?
As RiG said - Stephen Hill (depending how he comes along) or a top five draft pick will only suffice.
kelvin_sheedy
13 Mar 2009, 09:59
Interesting thread you guys have here. Anyone interesting in tackling a few hypotheticals?
What if Ryder plays a full season in defense this year, form is around the same. Same issues but same potential, doesn't really improve on his deficiency. At the end of the year, you guys might be thinking he could be holding back the development of your other key position prospects.
Fremantle will be looking for forwards next year, if we offered you a early 2nd (another pick 23 say) rounder in the last uncomprimised draft before GC. Would it be considered? Or throw out the window quickly? How do you guys feel about it?
Also, just wondering when Ryder does come out of contract?
:D:D:D
Argghhh... the comedy of bigfooty.
Colin D'Cops
13 Mar 2009, 14:49
Fremantle will be looking for forwards next year, if we offered you a early 2nd (another pick 23 say) rounder in the last uncomprimised draft before GC. Would it be considered? Or throw out the window quickly?
It would be considered, like most trade offers. But I'd imagine it'd get thrown out quite quickly TBH. Top 10 draft pick, has shown outstanding signs of becoming a star player (cool head under pressure, overhead marking, etc) and Knighta loves those young guys with tremendous upside.
He's one player where; He'd get better and grow in confidence with a good team around him. That's where 'champions' like Hird differ. They play consistantly great footy all the time under any circumstances.