View Full Version : To win or not to win - that is the question?
macca23
18 Dec 2002, 22:28
We all love winning. We all hate losing. Even worse we hate losing to Port. They hate losing to us. As it should be.
For the first time that I can remember (although my memory of the pre-season matches is very hazy) the Crows and Port are drawn to play each other in the first knockout pre-season game of the Wizard cup.
Port have won the 2 pre-season comps so it would be reasonable to say that they take it very seriously - they want to win it. On the other hand, the Crows have usually used them as pre-season trial matches, such as playing rookies in Rutten and Bock this year, as well as experimenting with players in different positions.
Obviously winning the pre-season cup is not the be-all and end-all of everything. Brisbane don't take it seriously and they have won the past 2 flags.
BUT we are playing Port first up this time!!! Do we stick with our usual game plan and experiment or field our most likely side first up trying to win as a psychological factor for the genuine showdowns later in the year. Do they stick with their fanatical desire to win the cup, or actually experiment with players like Morgan, Thurstans, Cassisi, Koulouriotis, Ackland and Brogan etc to help accelerate their AFL careers.
Comments from both camps welcome.
crowsfan
18 Dec 2002, 22:54
Good post there macca and valid points there too.
For sure we'd like to beat Port, but then I'm guessing, as you mentioned macca, we'd want to try any new tactics and such at the same time, and I'm not so sure if this is possible to do both, esp with the fact that this game is slighytly modified with the new rules.
I'm sure they'd like to add a 3rd preseason cup to their list, and agree with you that they'd probly go full bore at us too.
Since this time, its a knockout comp, we've got to decide whether or not we want to experiment first match up to see what works and what doesnt and run the greater risk of losing more match practice.
I'm suggesting we don't experiment against Port, play our normal gameplan, and if we have a win, then experiment a bit second match round.
Originally posted by macca23
For the first time that I can remember (although my memory of the pre-season matches is very hazy) the Crows and Port are drawn to play each other in the first knockout pre-season game of the Wizard cup.
I think Port have beaten us in the pre-season comp (under whatever name it was) once before.
Originally posted by macca23
Port have won the 2 pre-season comps so it would be reasonable to say that they take it very seriously - they want to win it. On the other hand, the Crows have usually used them as pre-season trial matches, such as playing rookies in Rutten and Bock this year, as well as experimenting with players in different positions.
I didn't follow this years wizard cup overly closely, but I think you're a bit mistaken here - from what I read we took it pretty seriously. I recall Ayres saying he wanted us to put in a strong performance so that we got off to a good start in the proper season. And we got through our three round robin matches undefeated - and you'd need to have a strong side to beat Brisbane at the Gabba - before losing to Richmond in the semis.
(Ayres' plan certainly worked too, we got off to a strong start in the real stuff; 3-0, compared to 0-3 & 0-5 in previous seasons)
As far as the match against Port goes, it would be 'nice' to win as it would be 'nice' to win any match in this knock-out competition, but I won't be losing sleep over a loss.
We played Port in the Ansett Cup 1999. that was the game that Rehn injured his knee for the third time.
I agree, we should follow last years formula and win as many trial games/Wiz Cup matches as we can.
Jerome
So far I think everyone is right. I can only assume this is because no Port supporters have posted yet!
Adelaide did do some experimenting with youngsters last season but at the same time it was also pretty geared up to have a red hot go at the cup in order to set itself up for the season proper.
My gut feeling is that we should use the same philosophy this year. If the Power want to play their best 22 (24?) like it's September in February, that's their own business. Coincidently, they're pretty good at playing like it's February in September as well! ;) We should use the same mix of youth and experience and use the trial games to determine our forward structure which is admittedly still up in the air and subject to major shuffling.
We must do the constructive things like last year which gave us such a great start to the season. No-one refers to the 99 game as a "showdown", so whilst the 2003 version will seem all important at the time it has no significance beyond February.
I agree that we should try & follow last years formula to win as many games as possible, whether we play the Paps or who ever it does not really matter as long as we only play players that are fully fit,
we should even give the duck a decent run if available but also it would'nt hurt to have a rookie or a first gamer on the bench just to give them a taste of AFL footy.
snakebite01
19 Dec 2002, 11:08
I think that this year will be different to last year as it is knockout not round robin. Due to this I don't think we should be trying to get into form so much as we were last year. Sure it would be nice to beat Port but I don't really want to wase a win against them in a worthless competition, I'd much rather take it in the minor round.
Whether or not we take the same approach as last year will be interesting because last year we had a minimum of 3 games to get into form but it could be all over in 1 game this year. Also with the new rules in practice I don't know if there is much point going all out when the scoring, kicking backwards, centre square etc etc are all completely differnet from the normal season.
IMO, we'd be better to go out then play trial games with the real rules to get accustomed for the real stuff. The only incentive this year for tem's to try and win the comp. is the money and in all honesty, we are the last team who needs another $200,000, we have got money coming out of our ..., you know.
The game will be a big event when it arrives. Being the first game of the preseason, obviously being a Crows v Power game and probably the biggest drawcard of all, the first game by Carey for Adelaide. I know it's not a real game as such but it will still be built up by the media and I expect a crowd of around 40 000.
Right now I don't care if we win or lose that game. After the game I won't care if we won or lost. During the game I will probably be really hoping we win.
I don't think we necessarily have to win but a good performance would be nice.
We will be trying to win, but without compromising the objectives that we want to acheive in the preseason.
Mong
Macca19
19 Dec 2002, 12:04
Originally posted by macca23
For the first time that I can remember (although my memory of the pre-season matches is very hazy) the Crows and Port are drawn to play each other in the first knockout pre-season game of the Wizard cup.
As Jerome stated, we played you in the first Ansett Cup game in 1999, when Rehn did his knee on the centre bounce plate thingy.
Port have won the 2 pre-season comps so it would be reasonable to say that they take it very seriously - they want to win it. On the other hand, the Crows have usually used them as pre-season trial matches, such as playing rookies in Rutten and Bock this year, as well as experimenting with players in different positions.
Port experiment with players in the pre season cup. Its not like we play our first string side. Its good to win for the money factor in my eyes. Gets the licence fees etc. paid off quicker.
Do they stick with their fanatical desire to win the cup, or actually experiment with players like Morgan, Thurstans, Cassisi, Koulouriotis, Ackland and Brogan etc to help accelerate their AFL careers.
Youve got it all wrong concerning Port and the Wizard Cup. The two times we've won it, weve played less than full strength sides.
Kane Cornes, Guerra, Thurstans, Ackland, Brogan, Cassisi, Michael Stevens, Derek Murray, Shaun Burgoyne, Poulton have all played major parts in our pre season side in the last two years. We have experimented, like playing Ackland in the ruck, having Paxman play from Full Forward the whole 2001 pre season, handing Thurstans CHB for the 2002 pre season, moving Wanganeen from BP to FP in the 2001 pre season.
It is possible to play an experimental side and win the cup too you know.
Macca19
19 Dec 2002, 12:06
Originally posted by napsyd
My gut feeling is that we should use the same philosophy this year. If the Power want to play their best 22 (24?) like it's September in February, that's their own business.
Weve never fielded our best 22 in a pre season yet...so why would we do that now?
Why do you assume that just because we won the thing we must of fielded our best 22?
Originally posted by Macca19
Weve never fielded our best 22 in a pre season yet...so why would we do that now?
Why do you assume that just because we won the thing we must of fielded our best 22?
If anything last year we probably played too many youngsters through the wizard cup and didn't get enough match practise into our best players, as was evident in the opening two rounds.
Originally posted by Macca19
Weve never fielded our best 22 in a pre season yet...so why would we do that now?
Why do you assume that just because we won the thing we must of fielded our best 22?
It must be your best 22, because the team you field in September doesn't seem to be able to make the grade. ;)
Seriously, it was more a reference to the temptation that both teams will have to field a stronger team to get the upper hand against each other rather than a dig at your previous pre season winning teams.
Malibu#27
19 Dec 2002, 15:01
Originally posted by napsyd
Seriously, it was more a reference to the temptation that both teams will have to field a stronger team to get the upper hand against each other rather than a dig at your previous pre season winning teams.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but given our recent inter club history, wouldnt we already have the upper hand :)
As usual Port will try and win the game versus Adelaide & the preseason cup, we want to win every game we play. Whether we play our "best 24" or not wont change the fact we will be playing to win, i hope for the cows sake they feel the same way. Winning form is good form no matter what the prize at the end of the day. But while saying that, Port will again, like every other year (& like the cows i'd suggest) give some new blood a run and try some different things in the pre-season.
Originally posted by Zombie
If anything last year we probably played too many youngsters through the wizard cup and didn't get enough match practise into our best players, as was evident in the opening two rounds.
Wow that's a new excuse for losing the first 2 rounds,
crowsfan
19 Dec 2002, 19:33
Ayres mentioned on the news that they'll be definitely be planning on performing well in the Wizard Cup, for the reasons that Jerome, noddy and others have mentioned: to give us the momentum that took us to the good success and start we enjoyed early on in this season, that hopefully will be mirrored in next season as well.
topjars
19 Dec 2002, 19:35
Win.
Whether the coaches say "We will try a few younger players" or whether they say "Id rather get the team up in the first minor round game" the fact remains we should go all out to WIN
Whether its Port Power or Fremantle makes no difference really.
But because its a showdown I reckon the intensity will be just like any other showdown.
It should be a beaut game
macca23
20 Dec 2002, 13:42
Thanks Ayresy. I knew I only had to ask the question to get the answer!!! :cool:
Ayres said Adelaide wanted to progress as far as it could in the Wizard Home Loans Cup pre-season knockout competition.
“That would be an ideal preparation for us,” he said. “I think it shows that most clubs that participate in that long term, so they get their four or five games, generally enter the season with a fair bit of confidence.
“They keep the group together. That adds a bit of stability, certainly early on, and if you can stay on the other side of the injuries, well, it gives you a good lead into the home-and-away games.”
Porthos
20 Dec 2002, 20:29
Originally posted by noddy
Wow that's a new excuse for losing the first 2 rounds, Not so new. We did it in 2000 as well, and look how that started - kept our key players on the bench, plonked most of them back into the side in Round 1 (there were a fair few ins and outs for that), and pow, senior players not match fit combined with younger players not expecting the change of tempo equals bad start.
I also reckon the Crows will win first up, if they take it seriously. I'll be happy to see Port get out of the stupid pre-season rules and start practicing for the real season ASAP.
macca23
20 Dec 2002, 20:50
Originally posted by Porthos
I'll be happy to see Port get out of the stupid pre-season rules and start practicing for the real season ASAP.
Hey, that was one of my lines in another post!! ;)
footballphantom
21 Dec 2002, 16:49
First time I seriously want the Crows to win. The pre season is rubbish with the new rules.