View Full Version : Bishen Bedi on Muralitharan
dr nick
19 Dec 2002, 21:48
Bedi brands Murali a chucker
Former Indian Test captain Bishen Bedi has launched a stunning attack on modern spinners and says Sri Lanka's leading wicket-taker, Muttiah Muralitharan, is a chucker.
"If Murali doesn't chuck, then show me how to bowl," Bedi, says in the February issue of Wisden Cricket Asia. "How can you call it bowling? He (Muralitharan) has no follow-through and he makes no use of his shoulders. Murali's arm doesn't go up at all. I have a picture of him bowling somewhere. He looks like a good javelin thrower."
Muralitharan, who reached the 400-wicket milestone in fewer Tests than any bowler before him, has had his controversial action cleared by the International Cricket Council. The integrity of his action is clouded by the fact that his bowling arm is permanently bent due to a congenital deformity. Bedi says this is irrelevant.
Referring to Murali's arm, he said: "It's just too bad, honestly. Some people are born blind ... Will a blind man be allowed to fly an aircraft? Why should a bowler be allowed to chuck because he has a defective arm?"
Bedi, who took 266 wickets in 67 Tests during the 1960s and '70s, said the rules of cricket could not be bent to accommodate Muralitharan.
"What does not conform to law is illegal and the law has to be applied uniformly. The problem is that the parent body (ICC) is not taking cognisance. It may soon become monstrous - every team may end up with three or four chuckers."
Bedi, who now coaches in Delhi, said there were several spinners in modern cricket who straightened their elbow or wrist to bowl occasional illegal deliveries, mentioning the arm-ball of India's Harbhajan Singh.
"In the good old days, (the arm-ball) was called the floater. It was bowled using the shoulder, like an outswinger," Bedi said.
"You bowled it with the off-spinner's action, but without imparting any spin. You rolled it and put in a little extra shoulder, so the ball drifted away.
"Now they do it with their elbows and wrists. Anyone using the elbow to turn it the other way is doing it illegally."
Bedi played in an era when the Indian team boasted a great quartet of spinners that also included Erapalli Prasanna, Bhagwat Chandrasekhar, and Srinivas Venkatraghavan.
bunsen burner
19 Dec 2002, 22:18
About time someone was balls enough to come out and say what everyone else is thinking. It really gets on my tits that those weak ICC f@#ks okayed his action. I would really like to know what the real reason why they cleared him was, because it certainly wasn't because his action was legal.
The worst thing about it is that a chucker is going to rewrite the record books. He's probably dismissed over 400 people with no balls.
I like it a lot. He's definetaly a chucker and someting need to be done about it before the entire Sri Lankan team is out chucking.
BTW, does anyone think James Kirtley chucks. All the blokes at my club have had a unanimous decision and named him a chucker but seen as though he goes for 80 off his 10 overs where not going to worry about it :D abit like Viv Richards to the ump when he kept hitting Lenny Pascoe's bouncers all over the park and the ump warned Pascoe for intimadating bowling and Viv says "no no man, i love those bouncers, let him bowl them all day" :D
Jim Boy
19 Dec 2002, 22:53
Pretty old news this. This was reported in February in cricinfo http://www.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2002/FEB/090370_SL_02FEB2002.html. Wonder why it's been rehashed now?
sandeano
19 Dec 2002, 22:58
When Muralitharan finally arrives here, how many times, in his patronising, condescending manner will Tony Greig refer to him as "little Murali"?
Something just really irks me about the way he does that.
sandeano
19 Dec 2002, 22:59
Originally posted by bunsen burner
He's probably dismissed over 400 people with no balls.
Nah...that's not entirely accurate. Most of them didn't play for England.
EagleBlue
19 Dec 2002, 23:45
Originally posted by bunsen burner
About time someone was balls enough to come out and say what everyone else is thinking. It really gets on my tits that those weak ICC f@#ks okayed his action. I would really like to know what the real reason why they cleared him was, because it certainly wasn't because his action was legal.
The worst thing about it is that a chucker is going to rewrite the record books. He's probably dismissed over 400 people with no balls.
Not only that he has been ranked No1 bowler by Wisdon. An absolute disgrace. Maybe Darrell Hair should be appointed to some of Sri Lanka's games later in the VB series just to test out the validity of chuckers injury
dr nick
20 Dec 2002, 07:48
Originally posted by Jim Boy
Pretty old news this. This was reported in February in cricinfo http://www.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2002/FEB/090370_SL_02FEB2002.html. Wonder why it's been rehashed now?
because i thought it timely with the sri lankans touring here at the moment, murali has just been named the best ever, plus recently the forum was filled with discussion on how only gilchrist and hair had ever spoken out on the issue.
excuse me for letting people read this one too.
kretchy
20 Dec 2002, 09:15
Originally posted by hourn
BTW, does anyone think James Kirtley chucks. All the blokes at my club have had a unanimous decision and named him a chucker but seen as though he goes for 80 off his 10 overs where not going to worry about it :D abit like Viv Richards to the ump when he kept hitting Lenny Pascoe's bouncers all over the park and the ump warned Pascoe for intimadating bowling and Viv says "no no man, i love those bouncers, let him bowl them all day" :D
I reckon Kirtley's action is suspicious as well, I think he's had it cleared by the ICC though.
kretchy
20 Dec 2002, 09:23
James Kirtley has had his action cleared by the ECB
http://www-uk.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2000/NOV/059977_ENG_08NOV2000.html
Jim Boy
20 Dec 2002, 16:02
Originally posted by nicko18
because i thought it timely with the sri lankans touring here at the moment, murali has just been named the best ever, plus recently the forum was filled with discussion on how only gilchrist and hair had ever spoken out on the issue.
excuse me for letting people read this one too.
Because the way in which you originally gave the impression that there was a new push for Murali to be investigated or that the issue was current. Rather than this which caused cotroversey at the time. I don't have a problem with you sharing the article, but to avoid confusion, you should've mentioned that it wasn't new.
I was one of you guys who always bagged Muralitharin, branding him a chucker. Then I read this article Murali Throwing Controversy (http://www-ieem.ust.hk/dfaculty/ravi/murali.html) . Bishen Bedi has it completely wrong with his "blind person flying an aircraft" comment, Murali has a defect in his arm but he does not chuck the ball because of this defect.
The reason it looks like he chucks the ball is because from behind the wicket it looks like his arm is bent before he comes into his delivery stride and it looks like he straightens it as he brings it over. This is not the case, his arm remains fully extended whilst his arm comes over.
http://www-ieem.ust.hk/dfaculty/ravi/images/hands2.jpg
This image shows his arm fully extended.
http://www-ieem.ust.hk/dfaculty/ravi/images/a1.gif
Look at frames 7,8 and 9, as you can see from the behind view it looks like his arm is bent then extends, but you can see from the side on view that his arm doesn't straighten at all.
Booze Hound
20 Dec 2002, 19:46
Well said Bishen!
Someone high up in Sri Lankan cricket once informed me, freely and without any pressure on my part, that Murali is a chucker and the Sril Lankan Board know it. He feared that, because it was allowed to pass, a lot of young Sri Lankan's were developing dubious actions.
IMO he certainly throws the big turner that he spears in flat, and a very large proportion of his other deliveries.
Re the photos posted by Zombie I have two observations:
1. These were taken when the bowler was aware of what was being done. You might think he would take extra care, might you not?
2. It is perfectly possible for an arm to straighten, but this not to be visible from side on.
Re James Kirtley, some background.
His action was first questioned a few years back and he did some remedial work on it. I was happy that, then, the action was perfectly fair. He toured Zimbabwe in late 2001 and a Pakistani Match Referee (were they trying to get their own back for criticisms of certain very dubious Sub-Continent action - I don't know) accused him of throwing. I saw the film on which he based his evidence and it was, frankly, rubbish. If that was throwing Brett Lee would never play the game.
Kirtley went back and IMO made the action worse with the 'new' work that was done to it. I undersatnd, in his defence, that he is double jointed (this can affect the look of it) and he does use a lot of wrist and I feel that, in most of his deliveries the arm is bent but remains consistent through the action. I do feel, however that in any ten deliveries at least one will be questionable (mind you, it was the same with the West Indian Eldine Baptiste in the 80's).
I've seen Kirtley live a few times this summer and I find it difficult to pick much wrong with his action. :o
Surely you can't take what Bishen Bedi says as gospel? After all, isn't he just another of your cheating subcontinentals we hear so much about?
dr nick
20 Dec 2002, 23:05
Originally posted by Jim Boy
Because the way in which you originally gave the impression that there was a new push for Murali to be investigated or that the issue was current. Rather than this which caused cotroversey at the time. I don't have a problem with you sharing the article, but to avoid confusion, you should've mentioned that it wasn't new.
ahem.... if you bother do more than just skim the article, you will notice the "February issue of Wisden Cricket Asia"
dr nick
20 Dec 2002, 23:11
Originally posted by Booze Hound
Re the photos posted by Zombie I have two observations:
1. These were taken when the bowler was aware of what was being done. You might think he would take extra care, might you not?
well said BH, its astonishing how many people overlook this fact and think because he was cleared under these conditions, he doesnt chuck, ever.
Jim Boy
20 Dec 2002, 23:34
Originally posted by nicko18
ahem.... if you bother do more than just skim the article, you will notice the "February issue of Wisden Cricket Asia"
fair enough, I knew I'd seen this story before I long time ago and couldn't be bothered reading it agin.
Originally posted by nicko18
well said BH, its astonishing how many people overlook this fact and think because he was cleared under these conditions, he doesnt chuck, ever.
His action looks exactly the same from the behind angle on the website as it does when he is bowling. The article proves that what a lot of people 'think' is 'chucking' actually isn't chucking at all.
Now you can say he was under certain conditions and obviously wouldn't chuck under these conditions, however if you had only seen the photographs of him taken from behind and not the side on actions you would have said it looked like he was 'chucking' in those photographs just like when he bowls during matches. The fact is he doesn't chuck, it simply looks like he straightens his arm from certain camera angles.
Trust me, I used to be the biggest "Murali is a chucker" person out, I couldn't understand why the ICC would allow it. The first time I read it I still thought he chucked, but then I read it a second time and realised the point they were making.
Personally I think the ICC have complicated the issue by stating that he cant straighten his arm, of course he can straighten his arm, he just can't straighten his arm completely. This led some people to believe that it wasn't possible for him to chuck, which isn't true, he like any other bowler can bend his arm and straighten it.
Keep the attitude you want if it makes you feel better, but Murali is no more a chucker than Shane Warne is, any one who knows the rules of cricket and reads the article will understand why Murali is not a chucker.
Nige_Bix
21 Dec 2002, 18:44
Originally posted by nicko18
because i thought it timely with the sri lankans touring here at the moment, murali has just been named the best ever, plus recently the forum was filled with discussion on how only gilchrist and hair had ever spoken out on the issue.
excuse me for letting people read this one too.
thanks - i hadnt read it - there's a number of cybersites on cricket and its easy to miss a few of them occasionally!
dzm