View Full Version : Patrick Smith - "There's a rift between the players and Knights"
The Dustbin
24 Mar 2009, 11:26
Did anyone hear Patrick this morning on SEN talking about a rift between the players and Knights?
Patrick claims that the players weren't happy last year with the game plan - too offensive and not enough defense. Nothing ground breaking, but it was bought up because Patrick believes that Leigh Matthews next coaching challenge could be Essendon....
Interesting to hear other peoples thoughts (I'm not talking about personal attacks on Patrick) or inside info...
coaching has gone by leigh matthews - he'd be worse than sheedy. ridiculous suggestion. knights is into his 2nd year of a 3yr contract and many were impressed with his debut season on the whole.
Ludwig van Bertstare
24 Mar 2009, 11:48
Maybe we should look at the cattle first rather than the coach.
Lance Uppercut
24 Mar 2009, 11:49
been reading this crap on BB - ffs it's all scuttlebut. Phatprick Smith is an idiot.
A rift :rolleyes: wtf is this, primary school?
The Dustbin
24 Mar 2009, 11:57
been reading this crap on BB - ffs it's all scuttlebut. Phatprick Smith is an idiot.
A rift :rolleyes: wtf is this, primary school?
Yeah, when I heard Patrick say it I didn't take him too seriously. Neither did KB. :)
Daytripper
24 Mar 2009, 12:07
Smith was part of the Save Essendon campaign or whatvere the hell it was after Sheedy got sacked.
Was left with egg on his face and it sounds like he is still trying to salvage something from the wreck.
The guy is a clown and it says something that a joke like Greg Denham is the Chief Football writer at the Oz ahead of Smith....
Jonesy1987
24 Mar 2009, 12:39
If there is a rift, they are sure hiding it well.
kelvin_sheedy
24 Mar 2009, 12:57
Rift or not this is the worst pre season for us in living memory.
No hype, no excitement, no media, no ones talking about us... zilch.
Ludwig van Bertstare
24 Mar 2009, 12:59
Rift or not this is the worst pre season for us in living memory.
No hype, no excitement, no media, no ones talking about us... zilch.
I agree with you.
Lance Uppercut
24 Mar 2009, 13:02
No hype, no excitement, no media, no ones talking about us... zilch.
that's bad how?
deathevocation
24 Mar 2009, 13:06
Lethal at Windy Hill. No.
Im not that worried about the fact that no one is really talking about us, this year it is so important to get games into the kids and work on game plans, lets just play the first month and hold our feelings until then.
Good chance we may just fly under the radar with all the richmond and carlton media build up !!
centurion
24 Mar 2009, 13:12
Rift or not this is the worst pre season for us in living memory.
No hype, no excitement, no media, no ones talking about us... zilch.
What is there to talk about Kelvin?
How our youngsters are setting the world on fire?
Our rock solid defence?
Our solid midfield?
Our young superstars in the forward line like Gumby?
Simply, we don't deserve to be talked about. I've supported Essendon for 25 years and ive never seen Essendon fall down like this. All we need now is a stab to the heart. Oh wait.....:o
kelvin_sheedy
24 Mar 2009, 13:15
that's bad how?
we've become boring and irrelevant.
Similar to what teams like Melbourne and North are.
It might hurt us in poor economic times.
It might hinder our ability to attract the best players.
Lance Uppercut
24 Mar 2009, 13:26
we've become boring and irrelevant.
Similar to what teams like Melbourne and North are.
jesus h christ, I think we need to get you on suicide watch! WTF is that shit? :eek:
Essendon will never become boring and irrelevant mate, ffs.
Boring is a subjective term, so that gives us a strong clue to your defeatist attitude. We don't play boring footy - sometimes we could probably be a bit more boring if anything.
In any case, we haven't even started playing yet...but you're having a cry because there haven't been many pre-season puff pieces?!
I simply cannot fathom an attitude that says because we haven't had a load of smoke blown up our arse over pre-season that we are "irrelevant". 40,000+ members would disagree, I'd suggest...
You are a weird dude. Sometimes you make incisive comments, then sometimes you come out with the crap you've been spouting for the last few weeks. Dear me, you really should go for Richmond. It's getting embarrassing
Jonesy1987
24 Mar 2009, 13:32
jesus h christ, I think we need to get you on suicide watch! WTF is that shit? :eek:
Essendon will never become boring and irrelevant mate, ffs.
Boring is a subjective term, so that gives us a strong clue to your defeatist attitude. We don't play boring footy - sometimes we could probably be a bit more boring if anything.
In any case, we haven't even started playing yet...but you're having a cry because there haven't been many pre-season puff pieces?!
I simply cannot fathom an attitude that says because we haven't had a load of smoke blown up our arse over pre-season that we are "irrelevant". 40,000+ members would disagree, I'd suggest...
Agree, we have had preseason hype for the past 5 years, hasn't really helped our cause. Whats changed from last year? A few less older players that were past their prime and another preseason into our kids. Calm down everyone, the sky is not falling.
kelvin_sheedy
24 Mar 2009, 13:48
jesus h christ, I think we need to get you on suicide watch! WTF is that shit? :eek:
Essendon will never become boring and irrelevant mate, ffs.
Boring is a subjective term, so that gives us a strong clue to your defeatist attitude. We don't play boring footy - sometimes we could probably be a bit more boring if anything.
In any case, we haven't even started playing yet...but you're having a cry because there haven't been many pre-season puff pieces?!
I simply cannot fathom an attitude that says because we haven't had a load of smoke blown up our arse over pre-season that we are "irrelevant". 40,000+ members would disagree, I'd suggest...
You are a weird dude. Sometimes you make incisive comments, then sometimes you come out with the crap you've been spouting for the last few weeks. Dear me, you really should go for Richmond. It's getting embarrassing
It's more about exposure and lack of excitement.
You need the club to have the best exposure so it can convert the kids into supporters which will regenerate our base for the next few decades.
Lack of exposure means you are stuck with the Norths and Melbournes of the world.
Crowds and people are fickle. One minute you can have 40K members and next you could be at 30K and struggling. We shouldn't take things for granted and expect the brand to get us through.
dave_27
24 Mar 2009, 13:50
We have become very vanilla.
EFC have experienced plenty of media exposure during the pre-season.
We have a few injuries - So What ?
Hawthorn has more injuries than Essendon but no person is writing off their season.
At the moment EFC is an average team - Who we hope will improve in 2009.
stay true
24 Mar 2009, 14:03
I dunno people expected other than what exposure we're getting now.
The focus all summer has been on Ben Cousins really and up until last week even I forgot that the grand final replay was on a day after the "Cousins V Judd grudge match of the century".
I'd much rather we just play some good consistent footy and let that do the talking.
Lance Uppercut
24 Mar 2009, 14:06
It's more about exposure and lack of excitement.
You need the club to have the best exposure so it can convert the kids into supporters which will regenerate our base for the next few decades.
Lack of exposure means you are stuck with the Norths and Melbournes of the world.
Crowds and people are fickle. One minute you can have 40K members and next you could be at 30K and struggling. We shouldn't take things for granted and expect the brand to get us through.
dude, again, it's the pre-season. It's not the footy season.
What exactly did you have in mind that hasn't happened this off-season that is somehow going to hurt our brand?
Remember, it's the off-season. When the actual season finishes we will, again, be in the top 2-3 for crowds, ratings, and, in Victoria, members.
This chicken little crap is so tiresome.
It's the off-season
Strike Swiftly
24 Mar 2009, 14:10
Whats with all the negativity prior to the season opener? I've certainly had about enough of it. I'm very excited about what the season will bring.
Who's to say we wont come out and smash sides? Our young kids might hit their straps and we could make finals. Hawthorn were bad a few years ago, so was Geelong and other successful sides. Lift your chins you nay sayers and get on board the positivity train.
I can not speak for the whole playing list but the players i do know and speak to every now and then are all pretty happy with the way things are.
The one comment that gets repeated by several players is the door is always open and Knights is very up front about what he wants.
They say you never leave his office without knowing exactly what he wants.
As for Patrick Smith i found it amusing that even Carro, Hutchy and Grant Thomas where giving him some stick on footy clasified last night.
I guess everyone has caught on to what a misserable little arse he is :D
And for arguments sake if things don't go well this year and Knights does get the boot ( it is possible if we play really poorly) i think that Mark Williams may be in pole position.
The club wanted him previously, it is reported that he is not number 1 in the popularity stakes at port now days and we could afford to offer more coin than Port will be in a psoition to do.
It's more about exposure and lack of excitement.
You need the club to have the best exposure so it can convert the kids into supporters which will regenerate our base for the next few decades.
Lack of exposure means you are stuck with the Norths and Melbournes of the world.
Crowds and people are fickle. One minute you can have 40K members and next you could be at 30K and struggling. We shouldn't take things for granted and expect the brand to get us through.
I thought we have had had just as much media coverage as previous years. There have been some really good pieces written about Lovett , Hurley , Zaharakis and Dempsey.
I guess the spoiler has been the poor form against the Pies which left nothing much to write about and the most news worthy story seemingly being about Gumbues injury woes.
You don't want to pump the tyres up too much, they may explode if things go off the rails.
I think it has had more to do with the Cousins circus over shadowing every other club that makes it appear to be a boring pre season.
Ludwig van Bertstare
24 Mar 2009, 14:42
And for arguments sake if things don't go well this year and Knights does get the boot ( it is possible if we play really poorly) i think that Mark Williams may be in pole position.
The club wanted him previously, it is reported that he is not number 1 in the popularity stakes at port now days and we could afford to offer more coin than Port will be in a psoition to do.
If that were to eventuate, how would you feel about it?
If that were to eventuate, how would you feel about it?
Well it is not something i would wish to happen as it will mean that things have gone horribly wrong.
As fas as Williams as coach goes well he does have the runs on the board and if Knights had to go then i would be happy with him. In saying that he is a different beast to a lot of coaches. I have had a little contact with him here and there at different under 18 and coaching functions and he is certainy a different character.
In some ways he is like Sheedy in that his line of thinking is on a totaly different wave length to most people.
Ludwig van Bertstare
24 Mar 2009, 15:26
Well it is not something i would wish to happen as it will mean that things have gone horribly wrong.
As fas as Williams as coach goes well he does have the runs on the board and if Knights had to go then i would be happy with him. In saying that he is a different beast to a lot of coaches. I have had a little contact with him here and there at different under 18 and coaching functions and he is certainy a different character.
In some ways he is like Sheedy in that his line of thinking is on a totaly different wave length to most people.
Thanks Ant.
GoldenboyHird_5
24 Mar 2009, 16:05
alright Ant, if Williams did take over us next year would he choose, hypothectically speaking, Daniel Rich or a KP player?
Wahooti Fandango
24 Mar 2009, 16:38
The man's an ass, Smith that is.
alright Ant, if Williams did take over us next year would he choose, hypothectically speaking, Daniel Rich or a KP player?
Probably whoever Keane and/or Dodoro like.
Ludwig van Bertstare
24 Mar 2009, 18:15
alright Ant, if Williams did take over us next year would he choose, hypothectically speaking, Daniel Rich or a KP player?
It's Dodoro's call so it probably still would have been Hurley. Knights wanted Sidebottom.
Big Blow Hard
24 Mar 2009, 18:44
alright Ant, if Williams did take over us next year would he choose, hypothectically speaking, Daniel Rich or a KP player?
Even Hypothetically speaking, if he took us over next year he would choose neither, they are already drafted.
If you had aske if he hypothetically took us over last year, you might get an answer. In which case I think Hurley would have been taken ahead of Rich still. But of course, Hypothetically, the list could have had a very different look to it. Laycock might have been gone, someone else might have been traded, Lucas might have been asked to retire, thus creating a different positional need. It is impossible to guess.
stugots
24 Mar 2009, 19:17
Lethal at Windy Hill. No.
knights will get is fair go, but if it all goes pear shaped, then Lethal at Windy Hill?
yes please, ooh yes
Lance Uppercut
24 Mar 2009, 19:21
knights will get is fair go, but if it all goes pear shaped, then Lethal at Windy Hill?
yes please, ooh yes
hell no.
Innovate, don't imitate.
We do NOT need to go back to the old coaches. If Lethal had anything more to offer, he'd still be coaching Brisbane
stugots
24 Mar 2009, 19:28
at 57 he's got another stint in him yet, imho & i for one would be fascinated to see what he could achieve at essendon
but if choco was available well would be mad to pass up i spose
Runknisse
24 Mar 2009, 19:47
I'm more os a 'LETS GO FOR SHAUN REHN' sort of guy.
Wanna B Hird
24 Mar 2009, 19:48
Season has'nt even started and a lot of you "so called supporters"are already jumping off, have some faith, we may not win the flag but enjoy the ride its a work in progress
Big Blow Hard
24 Mar 2009, 19:52
Wold Nathan Buckley coach anywhere but Collingwood. And would we want him if it came to that?
Personally, out of Voss and Buckley, the new breed, I would go Buckley.
But let's see what's in store for the rest of the season first, before we all start lynching Knighter.
Jonesy1987
24 Mar 2009, 20:18
IMO regardless of whether Knights gameplan works, he has done the right thing for our side, if the club maintains faith im sure it will come off.
jesus h christ, I think we need to get you on suicide watch! WTF is that shit? :eek:
Essendon will never become boring and irrelevant mate, ffs.
Boring is a subjective term, so that gives us a strong clue to your defeatist attitude. We don't play boring footy - sometimes we could probably be a bit more boring if anything.
In any case, we haven't even started playing yet...but you're having a cry because there haven't been many pre-season puff pieces?!
I simply cannot fathom an attitude that says because we haven't had a load of smoke blown up our arse over pre-season that we are "irrelevant". 40,000+ members would disagree, I'd suggest...
You are a weird dude. Sometimes you make incisive comments, then sometimes you come out with the crap you've been spouting for the last few weeks. Dear me, you really should go for Richmond. It's getting embarrassing
I tend to agree. I have not known a year when Essendon has been so distant with the press at large, very little coverage, promotion or hype. I think the general opinion is that Essendon will struggle to get off the bottom of the ladder in 2009, and to be honest, the media are more interested in Richmond, Carlton and Collingwood unfortunately.
We are going through an interesting time at Essendon. The membership will hit about 40,000 again, on the surface a decent result. However, it is very likely we will finish with fewer members than Richmond Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn - that would certainly be turning back the clock a long way. The major factor driving this in my mind is the lowly expectations of our supporters generally, and certainly the media is not helping the club promote itself out of it. In any case, from a total club perspective, i hope the the dark clouds that seem to be circling don't evenutate in 2009... Otherwise the bottom may fall our of the club economically in 2010 (expect a financial loss in 2009 - the first time in 13 years)
warney7
24 Mar 2009, 22:31
I think less of Patrick Smith than I do of Caroline Wilson.....nuff said!
bombre-boy
24 Mar 2009, 23:42
The only rift i can see is the one between Patrick's ears...not as complete a tosser as walls - but not far off...
bipolarbeaR
25 Mar 2009, 06:39
We have become very vanilla.
Vanilla is the best!:)
Clarkeson went through this 2 years ago too, why do people get so frustrated about a lack of instant results, I wish I had the time before work to write a massive list of all the things Knighter has done since he has done, none of which are small.
Oggy's cousin
25 Mar 2009, 09:48
Rift or not this is the worst pre season for us in living memory.
No hype, no excitement, no media, no ones talking about us... zilch.
didn't Essendon finish 4th in the preseason cup?
The Dustbin
25 Mar 2009, 10:13
didn't Essendon finish 4th in the preseason cup?
The most ugliest 4th in any competition. :cool:
NorthBhoy
25 Mar 2009, 10:17
that's bad how?
Sorry to jump in, but I agree with Uppercut. I think Essendon could do without the artificial Sheedy-esque nonsense for a while. You don't need the cash, so all it does is hype up footballers and take away focus.
Smith is just about the worst journo in the country. He just makes shit up.
Big Scottknowsall
25 Mar 2009, 11:48
I hope there are a few feathers being ruffled. I hate it when players are "happy"...
Hope it really fires up, we need some passion, and right now I dont really care where it's directed...Knights will rally them.
It's Dodoro's call so it probably still would have been Hurley. Knights wanted Sidebottom.
Knights and Dodoro both wanted Hurley. If still available, Dodoro's choice would've been Hill, but Knights didn't want him.
Knights and Dodoro both wanted Hurley. If still available, Dodoro's choice would've been Hill, but Knights didn't want him.
RIG is right, Knights wanted Sidebottom.
Yeah I sort of remember that. I can't see why he would go after Sidebottom and not Rich.
On SEN this morning they played an interview with Knights and he was saying Hurley and Zaka are a good chance for round one.
thebigboy
25 Mar 2009, 14:53
Im happy to let our results do the talking, rather than all the hype that other clubs are getting.
And on Patrick Smith, he's an irrelevant tool.
windyhill
25 Mar 2009, 16:36
EFC have experienced plenty of media exposure during the pre-season.
Exactly, I`m not sure what newspapers some of you blokes have been reading. If anyone, St.Kilda have had diddly squat written about them. We have had quite a bit of exposure, as usual, Essendon sell papers.
SirJimi05
25 Mar 2009, 16:39
Maybe we should look at the cattle first rather than the coach.
Where have you been this pre season RIG?
Its all we've been doing on this board and quite frankly its making me sick.
We have become as bad as Richmond supporters.
Ludwig van Bertstare
25 Mar 2009, 16:53
Where have you been this pre season RIG?
Its all we've been doing on this board and quite frankly its making me sick.
We have become as bad as Richmond supporters.
My comment was more in relation to the players "not being happy with the gameplan."
It was said they wanted to be more defensive but most of the players don't even attempt to man up.
TheDon35
25 Mar 2009, 17:13
What is there to talk about Kelvin?
How our youngsters are setting the world on fire?
Our rock solid defence?
Our solid midfield?
Our young superstars in the forward line like Gumby?
Simply, we don't deserve to be talked about. I've supported Essendon for 25 years and ive never seen Essendon fall down like this. All we need now is a stab to the heart. Oh wait.....:o
That's why he pointed out that it was a bad pre-season. There isn't much to be excited about in his opinion. Is that hard to understand?
TheDon35
25 Mar 2009, 17:17
hell no.
Innovate, don't imitate.
We do NOT need to go back to the old coaches. If Lethal had anything more to offer, he'd still be coaching Brisbane
The football world has gone headless over the last few years. A 4 time premiership coach and arguably the best player ever is a hell no.... I'm not saying I want Matthews but honestly, what has Knights done to earn the rediculous amount of praise that he gets?
TheDon35
25 Mar 2009, 17:20
BTW, for anyone that didn't hear it, all Smith was saying was that this was going to be a huge year for Knights as if he gets to the end of it and we are still around the bottom, he's going to be under huge pressure, 1 year to run on his contract or not.
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. If Knights can't start to show some seriouse improvement and provide a real direction toward a premiership then we are kidding if we don't think he should be under pressure for a job next year.
SirJimi05
25 Mar 2009, 17:38
My comment was more in relation to the players "not being happy with the gameplan."
It was said they wanted to be more defensive but most of the players don't even attempt to man up.
Fair enough RIG. FWIW i reckon it's a load of hog wash.
How many AFL players do you think would be upset with their coach for backing them and telling them to tack the game on and don't dwell on it if it doesn't always come off?
BTW, for anyone that didn't hear it, all Smith was saying was that this was going to be a huge year for Knights as if he gets to the end of it and we are still around the bottom, he's going to be under huge pressure, 1 year to run on his contract or not.
THIS IS ABSOLUTELY RIGHT. If Knights can't start to show some seriouse improvement and provide a real direction toward a premiership then we are kidding if we don't think he should be under pressure for a job next year.
Of course it is correct. If we are 5-15 and playing poorly with no injures then there will be serious pressure. Even more so with the prospect of them being able to get Mark Williams.
I did hear it and Patrick was being his usual self. In 2006 he was leading the charge to have Sheedy sacked. In 2007 he was on the save Essendon bandwagon. He is still smarting that he got burnt jumping on board that one.
bomba4eva
25 Mar 2009, 17:58
Vanilla is the best!:)
Clarkeson went through this 2 years ago too, why do people get so frustrated about a lack of instant results, I wish I had the time before work to write a massive list of all the things Knighter has done since he has done, none of which are small.
Sometimes people don't like seeing their team cop humiliating beatings on a regular basis:rolleyes:
Call me strange but I fall into that category. People keep harping on about Clarkson this and that but they refuse to acknowledge that countless teams have gone the path of youth and failed. They also dont concede that Clarkson had some very talented players at his disposal.
If there is a rift between Knights and the players then we have some serious problems. Can only hope the story is false.
Lance Uppercut
25 Mar 2009, 20:09
The football world has gone headless over the last few years. A 4 time premiership coach and arguably the best player ever is a hell no.... I'm not saying I want Matthews but honestly, what has Knights done to earn the rediculous amount of praise that he gets?
he has formulated a plan for success, & gone about implementing that plan.
There's no guarantees in football, but I'd rather a coach like Knights with dynamic ideas, than a coach who has arguably not the same fire in the belly given his success in Brisbane.
Answer me this: if Lethal had the fire in the belly, why did he abdicate and give up his job?
As you've pointed out, the guy is arguably the best player ever, and has achieved a threepeat of premiership wins as a coach.
Do you think maybe the hunger is not as acute?
Do you think he might be more set in his ways?
Do you think that, if he had more to offer, he would still be coaching Brisbane?
Do you acknowledge that a younger coach would relate far better to an ever younger Gen Y list?
Do you understand we got rid of Sheedy so we could get some new ideas in the club; such as developing a plan that will destroy the dominant paradigm of the rolling zone in a few years when the players and the game plan have developed?
Big Blow Hard
25 Mar 2009, 20:37
Matthews was pushed, he did not quit on his own terms.
Lance Uppercut
25 Mar 2009, 20:40
Matthews was pushed, he did not quit on his own terms.
so despite delivering an unbelievable 3 premierships, Brisbane thought there were problems with him as a coach and better options out there?
Interesting
Big Blow Hard
25 Mar 2009, 20:51
so despite delivering an unbelievable 3 premierships, Brisbane thought there were problems with him as a coach and better options out there?
Interesting
It's not interesting. It was widely reported he had a falling out with some of the players. Jonathon Brown in particular was not going to resign if Leigh Matthews coached on. Do you think it was coincedence that after te grumblings up there, Brown re-signed, and Matthews almost simultaneously stepped down as coach?
Lance Uppercut
25 Mar 2009, 21:55
It's not interesting. It was widely reported he had a falling out with some of the players. Jonathon Brown in particular was not going to resign if Leigh Matthews coached on. Do you think it was coincedence that after te grumblings up there, Brown re-signed, and Matthews almost simultaneously stepped down as coach?
so because he lost the confidence of his players, we should hire him?
Do you think it was all the players fault, then?
Interesting logic
Big Blow Hard
25 Mar 2009, 22:11
so because he lost the confidence of his players, we should hire him?
Do you think it was all the players fault, then?
Interesting logic
I did not say we should hire him, and I did not say it was all the players fault.
What is interesting is your translation of things.
stay true
26 Mar 2009, 01:59
I heard Patrick Smith on SEN this morning and he sounded like a fair bell end.
stugots
26 Mar 2009, 08:36
any board with a senior coaching role to fill would look long & hard at lethal were he to put his hand up despite the bias & outright hatred of many supporters, & i could see a challenge such as the essendon job reigniting lethal's motivation etc
however signs are that knights may do ok at this caper, & with a tough year ahead, see where we are in 6 months
Lance Uppercut
26 Mar 2009, 09:49
any board with a senior coaching role to fill would look long & hard at lethal were he to put his hand up despite the bias & outright hatred of many supporters, & i could see a challenge such as the essendon job reigniting lethal's motivation etc
however signs are that knights may do ok at this caper, & with a tough year ahead, see where we are in 6 months
I just can't see the point in going backwards.
Why didn't the players get along with Leigh, if indeed that's the case?
How on earth can anyone think it's a smart move, after getting rid of Sheedy, to hire a coach who is at the older end of the Baby Boomer generation, to coach, manage, and relate to a group almost entirely made up of Gen Y?
It would be a severely regressive move imo
kelvin_sheedy
26 Mar 2009, 10:06
Why didn't the players get along with Leigh, if indeed that's the case?
Why would you think there was a rift?
Jonathon Brown came out and said multiple times that it was a complete joke.
You don't believe Patrick Smiths comments about Knights so why are you alluding to issues with Matthews?
Lance Uppercut
26 Mar 2009, 10:48
Why would you think there was a rift?
Jonathon Brown came out and said multiple times that it was a complete joke.
You don't believe Patrick Smiths comments about Knights so why are you alluding to issues with Matthews?
I did say "if indeed that's the case".
To be honest, I have NFI. I'm happy to admit that. I was merely responding the the scuttlebut earlier in the thread.
To be honest, I was in Europe at the time Matthews was sacked, and I had no idea.
I actually got back, then one day weeks later I saw the paper that Voss was coaching the Lions. I was gobsmacked!
So yeah, I claim no knowledge at all.
However, it doesn't change my opinion one iota. If there wasn't an issue with the players, does Leigh think (correctly) he's achieved it all?
Do we even know if he wants another coaching gig?
At the end of the day, an old baby boomer coaching Gen Y's makes no sense at all.
If it did, we may as well have kept Sheeds
stugots
26 Mar 2009, 11:34
coaches in many sports coach successfully at the highest level well into their 60's & >
the notion that once someone has reached a certain age can no longer 'communicate' with those a generation younger is a load of ignorant bs.
if a lethal, sheeds or whomever managed to pull off a late in life flag, i for one would applaud them all the way, & it would help lay to rest this 'age' prejudice that those who really have no clue have developed, in this country at least.
Lance Uppercut
26 Mar 2009, 12:05
coaches in many sports coach successfully at the highest level well into their 60's & >
the notion that once someone has reached a certain age can no longer 'communicate' with those a generation younger is a load of ignorant bs.
why do you believe Matthews left Brisbane?
if a lethal, sheeds or whomever managed to pull off a late in life flag, i for one would applaud them all the way, & it would help lay to rest this 'age' prejudice that those who really have no clue have developed, in this country at least.
why do you believe Essendon sacked Sheedy?
stugots
26 Mar 2009, 14:19
"cause they're old & couldnt hack it anymore"
just answering your rhetorical questions for you,
certainly not my opinion
TheDon35
26 Mar 2009, 18:29
he has formulated a plan for success, & gone about implementing that plan. Yet to see anything from him that suggests that he's got a formula for success or that he has the ability fo implement that formula.
There's no guarantees in football, but I'd rather a coach like Knights with dynamic ideas, than a coach who has arguably not the same fire in the belly given his success in Brisbane. Not sure how Dynamic his ideas are. Remember It's only really dynamic if it's new, fresh, innovative... Haven't seen much of this yet.
Answer me this: if Lethal had the fire in the belly, why did he abdicate and give up his job? nobody knows if he's got any fire in his belly at all. I never said he should be coaching, just that it shouldn't be given a 'hell no' if he decided he did have the hunger.
As you've pointed out, the guy is arguably the best player ever, and has achieved a threepeat of premiership wins as a coach.
Do you think maybe the hunger is not as acute? Probably
Do you think he might be more set in his ways? Didn't know that was a bad thing.
Do you think that, if he had more to offer, he would still be coaching Brisbane? No
Do you acknowledge that a younger coach would relate far better to an ever younger Gen Y list? No. Your taking one tiny element of a coaches makeup - age, and making it the key criteria. A great coach is in most cases going to be able to relate better to his players than an ordinary young coach.
Do you understand we got rid of Sheedy so we could get some new ideas in the club; such as developing a plan that will destroy the dominant paradigm of the rolling zone in a few years when the players and the game plan have developed? Interesting, didn't realise the rolling zone was dominant until September last year.
By the way, still not sure what this dominant game plan is.
Lance Uppercut
27 Mar 2009, 09:46
Interesting, didn't realise the rolling zone was dominant until September last year.
By the way, still not sure what this dominant game plan is.
a) Hawthorn didn't magically materialise in the GF - they won their way there by being the best drilled team in the competition, using the rolling zone
b) not sure how you could miss it...almost every club in the NAB cup used a rolling zone. That means they worked enormously on it over summer, and will use it. The die is already cast
c) every year the premier's game plan is copied. Knights is trying to innovate, not imitate. Whether he'll succeed is yet to be seen, but good on him for trying
Interesting, didn't realise the rolling zone was dominant until September last year.
By the way, still not sure what this dominant game plan is.
Getting away from the game plan Knights has put in place the blueprint for the football dpeartment set up. Extra staff , extra effort put into rehab and proper plan in place. More work in player development and a completely overhauled training structure.
The results of this will not be know or seen straight away but it has been put in place. Even steps taken this year to make the Bendigo alignment work more effectively.
As far as game plan goes it is not effective becasue our list is not good enough to pull off any particular game plan with any sort of success rate.
Knights has said many time he has been disapointed that he has not been able to put in place what he wants straight away.
Take a look at any good side. It has taken most of them 3 to 5 years to perfect what they want to do.
Brisbane gathered together a hard runing no comprimise midfield over a 4 years period before taking out 3 flags.
Geelong took 5 years of fine tuning its list and coaching set up until they had the skills and mindset to impliment their run and handball style.
Hawthorn have come through the quickest but they too looked bloody afwull for two and a half season while Clarko was trying to get the style he wanted into play.
You are hanging Knights out to dry after one season. I dont know if he is going to be a great coach. Chances are he wont but from what i know from inside the club and the program he has in place it will certainly be a lot easier for the next coach to come in and mould the side to what he wants becasue all the ground work has been done and a pretty decent model for the football department has been put in place.
Seriously how much do you expect in one year ?
The exact same words where being said about Clarkson. Everyone questioned what the hell he was trying to do with his game plan and seriously asked if he actually had one.
I guess you are just one of the premature age. Everything has to be an instant sucess or it is just seen as a failure.
I guess you are just one of the premature age. Everything has to be an instant sucess or it is just seen as a failure.
Unless that person is Hislop :cool:
southwest bomber
27 Mar 2009, 10:55
It's more about exposure and lack of excitement.
You need the club to have the best exposure so it can convert the kids into supporters which will regenerate our base for the next few decades.
Lack of exposure means you are stuck with the Norths and Melbournes of the world.
Crowds and people are fickle. One minute you can have 40K members and next you could be at 30K and struggling. We shouldn't take things for granted and expect the brand to get us through.
My 8 month old son has too become a supporter, or he goes back to the hospital:D:D:D:thumbsu:
Grey Smith Bar
27 Apr 2009, 13:44
So where is smith now?????
Knob.
TheDon35
27 Apr 2009, 17:18
You are hanging Knights out to dry after one season. I dont know if he is going to be a great coach. Chances are he wont but from what i know from inside the club and the program he has in place it will certainly be a lot easier for the next coach to come in and mould the side to what he wants becasue all the ground work has been done and a pretty decent model for the football department has been put in place.
Seriously how much do you expect in one year ?
The exact same words where being said about Clarkson. Everyone questioned what the hell he was trying to do with his game plan and seriously asked if he actually had one.
I guess you are just one of the premature age. Everything has to be an instant sucess or it is just seen as a failure.
When did I hang him out to dry. I just questioned what this innovative new dynamic game plan was that kept on being spoken about on this board... I think you've also questioned it in your response so not quite sure where you're coming from.
As for your last point... I don't expect success strait away at all. In fact I know that the ultimate success is a few years away regardless of which genius coaches us. I'm just not going to be sucked in by rhetoric, excuses and one off performances. I will be convinced by consistent improvement of our players, consistent, gradual improvement of our team, and finally, his ability to make tough calls and play the right players in the right positions.
TheDon35
27 Apr 2009, 17:21
a) Hawthorn didn't magically materialise in the GF - they won their way there by being the best drilled team in the competition, using the rolling zone
What's your point?
b) not sure how you could miss it...almost every club in the NAB cup used a rolling zone. That means they worked enormously on it over summer, and will use it. The die is already cast
Whats your point?
c) every year the premier's game plan is copied. Knights is trying to innovate, not imitate. Whether he'll succeed is yet to be seen, but good on him for trying
Ok, and how is he doing things different to other coaches?
Again, not saying he can't coach just not convinced that he is the messiah that everyone keeps blindly rambling on about with no real substance behind their reason.
Lance Uppercut
27 Apr 2009, 18:14
Ok, and how is he doing things different to other coaches?
Again, not saying he can't coach just not convinced that he is the messiah that everyone keeps blindly rambling on about with no real substance behind their reason.
are you serious?
Do yourself a favour, and don't try and argue by creating ridiculous strawmen. No-one has said Knights is a "messiah" :rolleyes:
I've been to most Melbourne-based games this year, and watched most of them again on TV.
Not sure how much you watch, but if you can't see the point I was making, try actually thinking about it.
You haven't managed to notice why the Carlton and Collingwood games have been so entertaining? I'll give you a hint - it doesn't involve excessive zoning.
Even all the TV commentators continually talk about the fact that the games we've played have been one on one footy; and typically we've triumphed by sticking fat to our game plan.
Contrast that with Tanned Terry's grand plan after 5 years - copy Clarkson.
If you can't see that we are winning games by playing to our strengths and our game-plan, then I don't really rate your football IQ.
The Donners
27 Apr 2009, 20:42
are you serious?
Do yourself a favour, and don't try and argue by creating ridiculous strawmen. No-one has said Knights is a "messiah" :rolleyes:
I've been to most Melbourne-based games this year, and watched most of them again on TV.
Not sure how much you watch, but if you can't see the point I was making, try actually thinking about it.
You haven't managed to notice why the Carlton and Collingwood games have been so entertaining? I'll give you a hint - it doesn't involve excessive zoning.
Even all the TV commentators continually talk about the fact that the games we've played have been one on one footy; and typically we've triumphed by sticking fat to our game plan.
Contrast that with Tanned Terry's grand plan after 5 years - copy Clarkson.
If you can't see that we are winning games by playing to our strengths and our game-plan, then I don't really rate your football IQ.
I agree. I am a huge fan of Knights, I too have seen several games in Melbourne (including NAB Cup). I see last season as all about attack, this season there is more focus on defensive aspects. Knights said when he arrived that he needed to get back to basics because our list were so underskilled etc.
I don't know many Essendon supporters/members outside of BF (or on it for that matter) that acknowledge Knights is taking the EFC in the right direction!
Knighta loves the boys. Phatprick needs to shut his mouth.
Slattery_20
28 Apr 2009, 09:51
Knighta loves the boys. Phatprick needs to shut his mouth!
I would think anyone who works at Krispy Kreme could keep him fairly quiet
Interesting, didn't realise the rolling zone was dominant until September last year.
If anything, it was less evident. Geelong broke it down in the GF. You'll often see tactical plans ("game plans") go out the window a bit in big pressure games & finals. And most evident against dis-organised sides, eg the last few times we've played the Hawks. I'm a lot more confident we'll stick to our guns this year
TheDon35
29 Apr 2009, 06:22
are you serious?
Do yourself a favour, and don't try and argue by creating ridiculous strawmen. No-one has said Knights is a "messiah" :rolleyes:
I've been to most Melbourne-based games this year, and watched most of them again on TV.
Not sure how much you watch, but if you can't see the point I was making, try actually thinking about it.
You haven't managed to notice why the Carlton and Collingwood games have been so entertaining? I'll give you a hint - it doesn't involve excessive zoning.
Even all the TV commentators continually talk about the fact that the games we've played have been one on one footy; and typically we've triumphed by sticking fat to our game plan.
Contrast that with Tanned Terry's grand plan after 5 years - copy Clarkson.
If you can't see that we are winning games by playing to our strengths and our game-plan, then I don't really rate your football IQ.
That's great champ. You still haven't explained to me how his game plan is in anyway innovative. It's not. Go out there and play with some dare and take the game on, thats what Knights says over and over again. That's how they play... Great. Unfortunately, there's no plan B. North Melbourne as the example.
TheDon35
29 Apr 2009, 06:29
I would think anyone who works at Krispy Kreme could keep him fairly quiet
If anything, it was less evident. Geelong broke it down in the GF. You'll often see tactical plans ("game plans") go out the window a bit in big pressure games & finals. And most evident against dis-organised sides, eg the last few times we've played the Hawks. I'm a lot more confident we'll stick to our guns this year
I couldn't agree more but the perception in the football world is that because the Hawks one the GF with that horrible style, it's absolutely essential and is taking over football. I agree, Geelong did break it down last year but failed to convert chances which cost them back to back..
I'll back Geelongs players with Geelongs game plan over Hawthorns players with Hawthorns game plan any day of the week.
Jonesy1987
29 Apr 2009, 06:43
That's great champ. You still haven't explained to me how his game plan is in anyway innovative. It's not. Go out there and play with some dare and take the game on, thats what Knights says over and over again. That's how they play... Great. Unfortunately, there's no plan B. North Melbourne as the example.
We started the North game, looking to find space and play our natural run and carrier style. The Roo's played quite well early, not allowing us any space, but during the second and third terms we played some great defensive zones (even heard some roo's supporters comment on how good our zones were). We weathered the storm playing under their contested brand of football and had all the run half way through the 3rd quarter until the end of the game. Knights did nothing wrong and only our inability to convert cost us the game.
Just on a side note, what the hell is this focus on "innovative" game plans? Most aren't. Anyone who watched a lot of the 2000 side and Geelong 07 would know that Geelong's game plan was fundamentally the Essendon 2000 one.
There are very few truly "new" iniatives, mostly its all tinkering and working with the types of players you've got.
FandangoDingo
29 Apr 2009, 11:46
I would think anyone who works at Krispy Kreme could keep him fairly quiet
:D :thumbsu:
Hodgepodge
29 Apr 2009, 11:59
Nobody cares about Patrick Smith's opinions. He's a professional shit-stirrer.
Patrick Smith is a professional wanker...not a journalist, just a dead set wanker who has no idea whatsoever.:thumbsu:
TheDon35
30 Apr 2009, 08:18
Just on a side note, what the hell is this focus on "innovative" game plans? Most aren't. Anyone who watched a lot of the 2000 side and Geelong 07 would know that Geelong's game plan was fundamentally the Essendon 2000 one.
There are very few truly "new" iniatives, mostly its all tinkering and working with the types of players you've got.
Exactly the point i've been trying to make. We do not have an innovative game play. That's not neccessarily a bad thing, but lets not just assume that because Knights is a first time, young coach, he has this innovative game plan... He doesn't.