View Full Version : 4th Test: Australia v England at the MCG
dr nick
26 Dec 2002, 12:04
not looking so good for the english after a session and a bit of play, Australia 0/115 atm, and hayden probably should have been gone 1st ball if it wasnt for Harmison being 20m inside the rope at fine leg.
Hayden is absolutely smashing the bowling now, and took craig white apart. scoring at one day pace now.
was very impressed at harmison's pace earlier this morning. at about 6ft7, he really generates some pace and had Langer hopping early. bowled a couple over 150 clicks.
having said that England only have 3 specialist bowlers in this match with Craig White the all-rounder and Butcher as a part time offie. in the end i predict it will be their bowling that will let them down this test.
knuckles
26 Dec 2002, 12:27
Will be over by Sat PM. Have the boundaries been shortened at all?
dr nick
26 Dec 2002, 12:36
yes the boundaries are in some 20m in parts.
knuckles
26 Dec 2002, 12:38
Thanks. Then Eng has some chance at matching the scoring rate. 20 M is a lot.
ScouseCat
26 Dec 2002, 16:14
Originally posted by knuckles
Then Eng has some chance at matching the scoring rate. 20 M is a lot.
England have absolutely no chance of matching Australia's scoring rate because they wont be facing someone like Mark Butcher who decided for some reason it would be a good idea bowling half trackers a metre outside off stump!!
Australia's batting is something special though.... you just have to compare their current averages with the all-time Australian averages through the years. (Bradman excluded) We have something like 4 or 5 in the top 12.
dr nick
26 Dec 2002, 16:18
steve waugh currently 62*
98 runs to go to reach 10,000 test runs. the 3rd player ever to do so.
and if he reaches 110* his test average will be 50.00
the most runs ever scored on the 1st day at the MCG too.
crowd 64,189... a sell out.
dr nick
26 Dec 2002, 16:24
Originally posted by ScouseCat
England have absolutely no chance of matching Australia's scoring rate because they wont be facing someone like Mark Butcher who decided for some reason it would be a good idea bowling half trackers a metre outside off stump!!
Australia's batting is something special though.... you just have to compare their current averages with the all-time Australian averages through the years. (Bradman excluded) We have something like 4 or 5 in the top 12.
No need to exclude bradman, we have 5 in the top ten. Gilchrist, Hayden, Waugh, Ponting, Martyn
knuckles
26 Dec 2002, 16:45
Those with day 4 and 5 tickets should apply for refunds now. Could be worse, India. Just scraped past 100 in a ODI.
Matthew Hayden - without doubt the best knock I have seen at the MCG.
dr nick
26 Dec 2002, 18:03
Originally posted by Hoggy
Matthew Hayden - without doubt the best knock I have seen at the MCG.
did you go hoggy?? is it true there's a huge breeze going thru with the ponsford stand having been mowed down?
the commentators seemed to think the breeze was assisting caddick, but from what i saw, i'd have to say i disagree. nothing was assisting those bowlers
wagstaff
26 Dec 2002, 19:42
The Australian batsmen were very intelligent in going after the fourth bowler, Richard Dawson, who was smacked around the park today and undid the respectable jobs the three main pacemen did. It makes it easier to understand why Hussain had such little faith in him in Perth.
He doesn't spin the ball much, and his flight isn't that great - not dissimilar to Nathan Hauritz. And at least Hauritz is generally more accurate.
That was some brutal batting from the Australians in the hour after lunch. England's intensity fell away and the openers took full advantage. If you think Hayden and Langer are doing well against the English pace attack, wait until next season when they face up to the Indian pace attack. 2003 could very well be Hayden's third 1000 run Test year in a row.
And I would think that Waugh has done enough to warrant going to the West Indies; thankfully it will put all the tiresome media specualtion of all sorts to rest.
lamby29
26 Dec 2002, 19:52
Waugh has averaged 67.75 in his past 5 tests, of course he shouldn't be dropped.
Originally posted by wagstaff
And I would think that Waugh has done enough to warrant going to the West Indies; thankfully it will put all the tiresome media specualtion of all sorts to rest.
Don't count on it.
SpecialBruce
26 Dec 2002, 20:02
Originally posted by wagstaff
And I would think that Waugh has done enough to warrant going to the West Indies; thankfully it will put all the tiresome media specualtion of all sorts to rest.
I wouldn't count on it yet. He's had one good innings. He has definately 2 more to go and maybe 3. It will all depends on Martin Love's game. If Love scores high and in the second Innings has another good innings, then it could be bye bye Steve Waugh. Love has definately 5 years whilst Waugh doesn't even have one.
However, there is a chance that Waugh, Love and Lehman can all be in the same team. Martyn's form I believe hasn't been that great. It could be bye bye Martyn instead of Waugh. Love would be better suited for the number 4 position. I would play him there in the second innings.
Waugh's fate IMO is held on what Love and Martyn do this test and also next test. I suspect that Lehmann won't be right for the Sydney test. May aswell rest Lehmann next test and have him fit come the return of the VB series. Lehmann has done enough to earn his test spot, if Love shines and Martyn has a good innings whilst Waugh plays poorly, we know who will go.
I believe it would be in Australia's best interest for him to retire so Love can get the spot we all know he deserves or even a younger player.
tiger of old
26 Dec 2002, 20:06
with this england attack even glen mcgrath would be licking his lips if he got a chance to bat.
steve waugh is nowhere near out of the woods.while i admire steve waugh and i have the upmost respect for the man the aust selectors will have to make a hard decision.its either waugh or lehmann.
time to blood a youngster [clarke] or we will find ourselves in the same position as england are in a few years down the track.
cheers!
lamby29
26 Dec 2002, 20:21
Waugh made 53 in Perth, not too bad.
Damien Martyn so far this series has made scores of 26,64,95,71 and 17. There is no way he will be dropped after this series, although I don't really like him because he scores far too slowly.
tiger of old, a better idea would be to give Clarke a go in ODI's to see if he is up to International Level before rushing him into the test squad.
NICK THE PIE MAN
26 Dec 2002, 20:25
Go Tugga!
Go on with it son!
Stick it up the selectors and the media.
Originally posted by SpecialBruce
I wouldn't count on it yet. He's had one good innings. He has definately 2 more to go and maybe 3. It will all depends on Martin Love's game. If Love scores high and in the second Innings has another good innings, then it could be bye bye Steve Waugh. Love has definately 5 years whilst Waugh doesn't even have one.
However, there is a chance that Waugh, Love and Lehman can all be in the same team. Martyn's form I believe hasn't been that great. It could be bye bye Martyn instead of Waugh. Love would be better suited for the number 4 position. I would play him there in the second innings.
Waugh's fate IMO is held on what Love and Martyn do this test and also next test. I suspect that Lehmann won't be right for the Sydney test. May aswell rest Lehmann next test and have him fit come the return of the VB series. Lehmann has done enough to earn his test spot, if Love shines and Martyn has a good innings whilst Waugh plays poorly, we know who will go.
I believe it would be in Australia's best interest for him to retire so Love can get the spot we all know he deserves or even a younger player.
I'm not Damien Martyn's biggest fan but I think scores of 26 & 64, 95 and 71 (that last one earning him man of the match) this series will keep him in the side for a while. Lehmann, who I'm a huge fan of, hasn't quite nailed down a spot in the Test side yet. I'm actually a bit anxious that Love might take his place. :eek:
Also this may be Waugh's second last chance in the series. Fingers crossed we may have England following on.
Bomber Spirit
26 Dec 2002, 20:50
Sensational knock by Hayden. Langer was patchy, but a couple of times when he could so easily have got out he hung in there and the form returned.
And very pleasing to see Steve Waugh get some runs. He's a true champion who loves a challenge, and I'd love to see him not only get 3 figures in this Test but play on. It's his decision, but I'd hate to see him pressured into retiring when he doesn't want to.
dr nick
26 Dec 2002, 20:53
i still think it mainly depends on the sydney test whether waugh gets to tour. i have no doubt he'll either be in the starting XI or out of the squad all together. they wont take him as a reserve batsman.
if waugh gets 100 this test then a pair in sydney, i'd have to say he hasnt done enough in terms of what the selectors expect. if he gets 100 in this test then a 50 in sydney, it will be borderline whether they pick him and depends how love goes on debut. no matter what he gets in this test, if he gets 100 in sydney he will tour.
good to see the MCG give him a standing ovation today, awesome stuff melbournians.
For a while there it looked like Steve Waugh would make a century consisting solely of 4's. Even so, from where I was, granted it was the nosebleed section, he looked very shaky to start off with. He certianly had to invent a couple of shots to get off the mark. Hope he gets the 10 grand in runs though.
What's all this about Lehmann having consolidated his spot in the test team? If anything it is the complete opposite, he has been poor against a very poor opposition, he needs to get some runs on the board soon otherwise he's GAWN!
dr nick
26 Dec 2002, 22:53
Originally posted by Zombie
What's all this about Lehmann having consolidated his spot in the test team? If anything it is the complete opposite, he has been poor against a very poor opposition, he needs to get some runs on the board soon otherwise he's GAWN!
im with you zombie. i dont believe lehmann has been any benefit to the side after replacing mark waugh and australia has lost a fair bit in the field as a result of him.
compare lehmann's average of 32.33 with recent series of mark waugh.
20.00 v Pak
33.80 v SAF
32.25 v SAF
35.00 v NZ
so nothing has been gained in the batting dept as yet, and our fielding/slip cordon has been left wanting. he really needs to be averaging mid 40's at least to begin to secure a spot.
Originally posted by Zombie
GAWN!
youve been watching too much of the footy show
Lehmann has been coming in at #6 when the work has been done. That is, a performance wasn't really needed from a team point of view. Unlike Mark Waugh whose failures at #4 triggered collapses. Lehmann showed in the recent one-dayer what he can do when given the responcibility up the order.
Originally posted by nicko18
did you go hoggy?? is it true there's a huge breeze going thru with the ponsford stand having been mowed down?
the commentators seemed to think the breeze was assisting caddick, but from what i saw, i'd have to say i disagree. nothing was assisting those bowlers
Yeah I went, I wore my Hammers shirt and sat with the Barmy Army although I was barracking for Australia (If there is a bad word about that bunch of blokes I don't want to hear it, they are a magnificent bunch of people.)
The word "huge" should not be used, let's say "slight" breeze coming through the gap.
It's amazing how no one from England actually enjoys the sight of Andy Caddick bowling. He needs all the help he can get.
dr nick
27 Dec 2002, 07:54
Originally posted by DaveW
Lehmann has been coming in at #6 when the work has been done. That is, a performance wasn't really needed from a team point of view. Unlike Mark Waugh whose failures at #4 triggered collapses. Lehmann showed in the recent one-dayer what he can do when given the responcibility up the order.
that doesnt erase the fact that Lehmann has added nothing to the team since mark waugh was dropped. #4 is a harder spot to bat than #6 anyway. 100 at #4 is worth just as much as a 100 at #6 and the fact that he is allowed to get away with failures just because the rest of the batters are pulling their weight is a bit of a cop out.
perhaps he'd be good as a specialist one day player ala michael bevan. they are very different games and a performance in one form doesnt suggest form in the other.
wagstaff
27 Dec 2002, 09:26
Originally posted by DaveW
Don't count on it.
Maybe so, but from what I've seen in this series his batting has gotten more impressive as each Test has gone by.
He looked very ordinary and stodgy in Brisbane. In the 1st innings of that match, his slow scoring along with Martyn's slowed down the enormous momentum of Australia's innings and they allowed England back into the game.
He looked far more assertive in Adelaide, and would've been disappointed not to make the most of his bright start.
He batted for longer in Perth and looked solid throughout in scoring a half-century. He may have looked awkward against the short ball at times but that is hardly anything new.
And yesterday was his most impressive innings yet of the series; after some unusual shots first up he settled in and looked in complete control; he looked totally switched on and his placement was superb.
Going on his form overall in this series with it's steady improvement, he should be picked for the Caribbean tour. He's looked more impressive then Lehmann has anyway.
ScouseCat
27 Dec 2002, 11:14
LUNCH - DAY 2
Australia: 4 for 445
Langer 191 not out, Love 21 not out
The only wicket to fall in the morning session was Steve Waugh for 77.
Originally posted by nicko18
that doesnt erase the fact that Lehmann has added nothing to the team since mark waugh was dropped. #4 is a harder spot to bat than #6 anyway. 100 at #4 is worth just as much as a 100 at #6 and the fact that he is allowed to get away with failures just because the rest of the batters are pulling their weight is a bit of a cop out.
perhaps he'd be good as a specialist one day player ala michael bevan. they are very different games and a performance in one form doesnt suggest form in the other.
Give Lehmann a proper go at #4 and he'll prove his worth.
larrikin
27 Dec 2002, 12:03
Langer's reached his 200 and is looking very good to go on and get hig highest Test score (currently 234 I think).
4/490
Langer 218*
Australia should try and make 1000
Langer currently 223 and Love 36. If Love goes on with the job then i reckon he warrants a spot before Lehmann. Just my opinion, and the fact Im a big fan of Love.
Englands selectors are a disgrace IMO. What are everyones thoughts on playing more of the current one day players just for the last 2 tests? I reckon they should of brought in Blackwell for Dawson,which adds to their batting, Knight for Key or Crawley and another quick for Key or Crawley. Their bowling would be able to be competitive, and the batting would only be slightly tarnished.
ScouseCat
27 Dec 2002, 12:34
Originally posted by larrikin
Langer's reached his 200 and is looking very good to go on and get hig highest Test score (currently 234 I think).
Justin Langer is now 224 not out, his new highest test score passing the 223 he made against India at the SCG a couple of years ago.
Macca19
27 Dec 2002, 12:46
Comment of the year Bill Lawry "Michael Vaughn...couldnt catch a cold int he middle of winter" :D
Sad thing is its bloody true. This guy has to be the worst fielder going around.
I wont begin on their bowlers.
dr nick
27 Dec 2002, 12:52
Originally posted by Macca19
Comment of the year Bill Lawry "Michael Vaughn...couldnt catch a cold int he middle of winter" :D
Sad thing is its bloody true. This guy has to be the worst fielder going around.
I wont begin on their bowlers.
i was in the car when he dropped Langer. Kerry O'Keefe goes..
"fair dinkum, you wouldnt get Vaughan to shout a round of drinks, they'd all be on the floor by the time he got back... *funny laughing sound*"
Richie had another good one this morning, too... Caddick was apparently copping a bit from the crowd (not surprisingly since he was bowling ****), and extended the middle finger at the top of his run.
Richie: "There's nothing unusual about that, a lot of bowlers signal to the wicketkeeper what they are about to bowl."
Rest of Nine team: <LONG SILENCE>
Nige_Bix
27 Dec 2002, 13:55
You're never going to get all the your top 6 or 7 going well all the time - when some are looking a bit lean on numbers others are doing the job - and at other times different players step up, while others might then go a bit quiet! You need to put peformances into the perspective of how the team is going.
There a lot of players not playing for Australia atm who would get a walk up start into other sides.
dzm
Nige_Bix
27 Dec 2002, 14:12
Vaughan has gone - played on to McGrath!! - 1 for 13 - didnt look really comfortable
McGrath and Gillespie look a class above the English bowlers!! They give no free hits as Bill Lawry was saying which just increases the pressure and brings about faulty shots.
dzm
Originally posted by Macca19
Comment of the year Bill Lawry "Michael Vaughn...couldnt catch a cold int he middle of winter" :D
Sad thing is its bloody true. This guy has to be the worst fielder going around.
He must of dropped about 8 catches so far this series.He dropped 2 or 3 in the 1st test.In fact the very 1st run of the series came from a mis-field by Vaughan.
Nige_Bix
27 Dec 2002, 14:42
McGill's come before Bret Lee - interesting - reckon he'll be on soon though!
Nige_Bix
27 Dec 2002, 14:45
Originally posted by dezzmo
McGill's come before Bret Lee - interesting - reckon he'll be on soon though!
I spoke too soon - double change - Lees on now!! - have to watch that hyper-extended/double-jointed elbow!
dzm
dr nick
27 Dec 2002, 15:17
Originally posted by dezzmo
I spoke too soon - double change - Lees on now!! - have to watch that hyper-extended/double-jointed elbow!
dzm
bowling VERY quick, 156.2 k's but is going for a few runs. these poms are batting well. 1/71 as i type.
well done Langer!!!!! you're a champion.
Navy Master
27 Dec 2002, 18:54
They finished up on 3/97 and Nasser Hussain should've been out... another third umpire low catch decision
lamby29
27 Dec 2002, 19:08
Brett Lee seems to be an automatic selection now ahead of Bichel, which is good.
I might be being a little cynical here, but do you think Steve Waugh's strange decision to declare when he did was part because of the fear of Martin Love going on to make a deserved hundred on debut, giving the media more fuel to question Waugh's place in the side? Because on the radio they thought he should have batted on and let the score reach about 650.
Originally posted by Catman
I might be being a little cynical here, but do you think Steve Waugh's strange decision to declare when he did was part because of the fear of Martin Love going on to make a deserved hundred on debut, giving the media more fuel to question Waugh's place in the side? Because on the radio they thought he should have batted on and let the score reach about 650.
Yeah I agree, poor bloke, should have let him bat until he got out or reached 100, it is not like he will get another bat in this test.
dr nick
28 Dec 2002, 07:46
Originally posted by Catman
I might be being a little cynical here, but do you think Steve Waugh's strange decision to declare when he did was part because of the fear of Martin Love going on to make a deserved hundred on debut, giving the media more fuel to question Waugh's place in the side? Because on the radio they thought he should have batted on and let the score reach about 650.
pfft, the radio commentators are always the self proclaimed experts on these issues.
the rate love was scoring, it would have taken another session for him to reach his hundred, at which time we probably would have batted for 2 days and lost 6 wickets. That would leave us 3 days to get 20 more wickets. we dont even have our main bowler. why on earth would you put love's personal ambitions before that of the team.
i can also guarantee this board would be rife with critics if Australia did bat on and it was Waugh in Love's position.
wagstaff
28 Dec 2002, 17:59
Went to the MCG today, and saw a pretty good day's cricket.
It appeared after England's early collapse that the match could be all over by the end of today. But they batted pretty well over the last five hours and have given themselves a chance of making Australia bat again.
The dry heat that was there all day was the obvious reason why MacGill bowled virtually all day from one end of the ground; so that Waugh could rotate his fast bowlers from the other end. Certainly McGrath in particular struggled; he rarely bowled and when he did he wasn't even able to get Caddick or Harmison out.
Gillespie was easily the most impressive of the Australian bowlers although if you went by the radio commentary, you would presume that Brett Lee was the best - commentators get sucked in by pace and forget to look at facts and figures quite often.
I think Vaughan is England's big hope. He looked very classy today and it wouldn't surprise if he went on tomorrow and got a big hundred. If he does, then England will make Australia bat again and at least gain some dignity out of this match.
Craig White tore his side muscle, and wont bowl for 6 weeks, effectivly the rest of the tour. Deserves a batting place with his current form.
Originally posted by wagstaff
commentators get sucked in by pace and forget to look at facts and figures quite often.
Lee had conceded 6 runs an over, off just 5 overs. That's poor at ODI level but at test level that is appalling. Why do they bother?
Jason Gillespie is the best of the bowlers, by a mile at the moment. To concede only 25 from almost 17 overs is world class bowling. He doesn't get the recognition he rightly deserves.
Desredandwhite
29 Dec 2002, 00:07
Well, the MCG is always a magnificent sight on Boxing Day, even with the missing stand :) I was there with Bomber Spirit and had a ball - even if the GSS seats are the worst to sit in for a 7-hour stretch! Didn't see a ball of the following two days though. Was staying with the girlfriend's parents in Geelong, and the lot of them hate cricket. Anyway. Great knock from Hayden, and fantastic perseverance from JL, he can get bogged down, but you'll never remove him easily. Good appearance from Steve Waugh too. As I said, I didn't watch very much of the rest of the Aussie innings, so I can't comment on the "conspiracy" re: love and the scoring rate.
wagstaff
29 Dec 2002, 19:24
While Australia will win this match, I think with the benefit of hindsight Waugh would want to take back his decision to enforce the follow-on.
Surely it would've been better for the Australian batsmen to rack up a quick 200 in 40 overs on Saturday and then let the rested bowling attack rip into the English batsmen on Sunday. It's been argued that Waugh took into consideration the weather factor but the predictions were that rain may come late in the day, if at all, so they shouldn't have been a worry.
He also could've batted on later on Friday and racked up an extra 50-100 runs in quick time, which would've enabled Australia to win the match by the end of today.
Originally posted by wagstaff
While Australia will win this match, I think with the benefit of hindsight Waugh would want to take back his decision to enforce the follow-on.
Surely it would've been better for the Australian batsmen to rack up a quick 200 in 40 overs on Saturday and then let the rested bowling attack rip into the English batsmen on Sunday. It's been argued that Waugh took into consideration the weather factor but the predictions were that rain may come late in the day, if at all, so they shouldn't have been a worry.
He also could've batted on later on Friday and racked up an extra 50-100 runs in quick time, which would've enabled Australia to win the match by the end of today.
I disagree. By batting first in the second innings Australia would've given England a very good chance of saving the match. As it is, they will waltz to victory.
Nige_Bix
29 Dec 2002, 22:14
Originally posted by DaveW
I disagree. By batting first in the second innings Australia would've given England a very good chance of saving the match. As it is, they will waltz to victory.
You are probably right Dave, but I did also worry about our guys spending another day + in the field and thinking the game could have gotten away from us. I thought the bowlers were a bit knakked at the end of their 1st innings.
Justin Langer looked very pleased to be coming off this pm.
dzm
larrikin
29 Dec 2002, 22:18
I always like enforcing the follow on, but when you think Gilly squatted at least 1350 times in 2 days, and MacGill bowled about 500 balls it may have been a good idea to give the bowlers a break and bat for half a day.
Doesn't look like it's gonna matter now.......