Nirvana v Pearl Jam [Archive]

robertkay

26 Dec 2002, 18:43

Which one is better?

I was watching Channel V last night and they had Nirvana's film clips followed by Pearl Jam. It only last for 90 minutes but it was truly great music and made my day. So.. Which one of the two is the greater band?

They both brought out there legendary breakout albums in 1991 that brought them accalimed stardom, ten and nevermind.

There is Alive, Daughter, Even Flow, Jeremey against the likes of Smells Like Teen Spirit, Come as You are, In Bloom, Heart Shaped box etc etc.

So which band is the greater?

This debate has probably been on this forum before but since I missed it, Lets do it again.

Kurt Cobain once said "It's better to burn out than to fade away"

Did Nirvana burn out? and is Pearl Jam fading away?

Fraser

26 Dec 2002, 18:57

IMO, Kurt and Nirvana went out on a high. There will never be another Nirvana sadly :(
There are too many bands out there that rip off Eddie Vedder too :mad:
Overall, Nirvana by far. Pearl Jam's new material sucks IMO. It's enough to stop me listening to them. I could listen to Nirvana anyday though. I LOVE the song 'Pennyroyal Tea'. Nirvana's unplugged performance was great too! But, I didn't like the unreleased song though that was just released.

oh, a little off topic but, I hope Courtney Love dies and burns in hell. :D

cheers

robertkay

26 Dec 2002, 19:03

Originally posted by Fraser
IMO, Kurt and Nirvana went out on a high. There will never be another Nirvana sadly :(

cheers

I wouldnt call killing yourself a high, he was depressed. Kurt was gone....he had nothing left in him which was a real shame. Yes I agree Nirvana were still going strong but i dont think kurt had much in him at the end.

He still had the magic though as shown in his final session with nirvana in 1994 with the recording of one live take "you know your right". incredible.

The_Flying_Egg

26 Dec 2002, 19:14

PJ were miles better for the 5 minutes they were both releasing music and because of Kurts appetite for lead have confirmed for the best part of a decade since that they crap on Nirvana

How can people argue that Nirvana are better because they don't like what PJ are doing now? Nirvana have done nothing since the day Kurt left their fans davastated. PJ on the other hand have kept on going and releasing great albums.

In my opinion Nirvana are one of the most over-rated bands of all time, while PJ are the Worlds greatest band

robertkay

26 Dec 2002, 19:40

Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg
PJ were miles better for the 5 minutes they were both releasing music

1991-1994 is Hardly 5 minutes.

[i]
How can people argue that Nirvana are better because they don't like what PJ are doing now? Nirvana have done nothing since the day Kurt left their fans davastated. PJ on the other hand have kept on going and releasing great albums.
[/B]

Its quality not quantity.

Pearl Jams older stuff sh*ts on its newer music...by a country mile.

Porthos

26 Dec 2002, 20:08

For me, Pearl Jam went back to being just an average band after Ten.

Richmondfan#1

26 Dec 2002, 20:49

I can't go past Nirvana. In lyrics and musical composition, I just love them. Pearl Jam are good but in my opinion Nirvana kick arse.

Fansquad

26 Dec 2002, 21:03

Originally posted by Porthos
For me, Pearl Jam went back to being just an average band after Ten.

I agree.

Pearl Jam are a great band.

Nirvana are something more. How songs of the quality of Silver, Dive and Been a son can be on a stop gap b side album still amazes me to this date.

dreamkillers

26 Dec 2002, 23:16

I'll take the cop out option as I believe both bands were greats and were part of an era of change in the commercial music industry..............

I don't like judging one band against another.........it's like people comparing the Stones to the Beatles - both were great like the above 2 bands - I much prefer just enjoying the music itself.........

Some of my many favourites from that era I still love to listen to today (in no particular order)..........

Pearl Jam
Nirvana
Soundgarden
Faith No More
Alice In Chains
Stone Temple Pilots
Smashing Pumpkins
Mudhoney
Mark of Cain

apologies to the many others I've missed but my CD collection is packed getting ready for a house shift..........

Mr Eagle

27 Dec 2002, 01:30

(Actually Def Leppard said "It's better to burn out than fade away" decades ago. They should have taken their own advice, of course.)

As a personal preference, I'd say Pearl Jam simply because Cobain's tuneless screaming in every third song detracted terribly from Nirvana's good material.

But you really can't compare the myth of what Nirvana may or may not have done with the reality of PJ's actual work. Nirvana I am quite certain would never have repeated its early successes, particularly with the way the music industry diverted towards teeny-pop and R&B in the late 90s. Had Kurt not mistaken his sawnoff for a chicken sandwich, he would probably be in the same position as Eddie Vedder now - a god to his fans, a museum piece to the mass market.

Mcchawk

27 Dec 2002, 06:45

Originally posted by dreamkillers
Some of my many favourites from that era I still love to listen to today (in no particular order)..........

Pearl Jam
Nirvana
Soundgarden
Faith No More
Alice In Chains
Stone Temple Pilots
Smashing Pumpkins
Mudhoney

Yeah I hear you great bands, pity most can't tour here because drug problems, broke up, dead etc etc

dreamkillers

27 Dec 2002, 07:59

Originally posted by Mcchawk
Yeah I hear you great bands, pity most can't tour here because drug problems, broke up, dead etc etc

Possibly but I've been lucky enough to see all of them live at some stage............and as aways their music lives on no matter what............

Faith No More did a tour of Australia just before their chart success where they played at smaller club venues around the country and were awesome to see in that environment............

Whitey

27 Dec 2002, 10:18

Pearl Jam are better, but not by much.
Pearl Jams older stuff sh*ts on its newer music...by a country mile.
Every album is a little different - that's the great thing about Pearl Jam IMO - their music changes - but it's still quality. I'd be dissapointed if they kept putting out songs in the mold of "ten" etc. Point taken tho - i like their older stuff better, but i don't mind the new stuff still.
and is Pearl Jam fading away?
Perhaps, PJ are fading away in terms of sales, but the quality of their music hasn't wavered.

Carlos

27 Dec 2002, 10:43

I was never a big Nirvana fan but i'm very glad they were around due to the influence they had on helping to blur the lines between "alternative" and "commercial" music. Hence perhaps i'm not the best person to voice an opinion here.

That said, and this is purely speculative, i dont really see much scope for where Nirvana could have taken their music had Cobain not copped out and been a weak prick. The 3 cord, fuzz pop/grunge thing can only go so far before it becomes a parody of itself IMO. And as much as he was capable of writing some tremendous pop music, i couldnt ever see him "selling out" and going that path. I think he would have ended up becoming more and more self indulgent and going down a Sonic Youth path of sound. But like i said, i was never the biggest fan of his band.

I think it is pointless comparing them. For a start, if we are referring to influence and relevance and not just popularity and sales, then any such discussion has to include the likes of Soundgarden, Alice in Chains, Mudhoney and Smashing Pumpkins to name but a few. Pearl Jam should never have been considered a "grunge" band or whatever the trendy catch phrase for that stuff was back in the early 90's. They were lumped into that that whole wave of music only because of location (Seattle), but were always only a very classy rock band capable of the odd angry moment with a front man who had one of the most distinctive voices and personas in music.

They have proven to be one of the most enduring rock acts ever. Sure, the angst may have gone, and with it their appeal to the disillusioned angry youth that help boost the album sales of any band claiming to be "punk rock" or "alternative", hence their decline as far as shifting units goes . But they are still relevant IMO and still making great music, if not a little less obvious and immediate as the "Daughters" and "Alives" etc etc. And i think the fact they still sell out tours as quickly as they do reflects what they mean to people.

Mcchawk

27 Dec 2002, 12:42

Originally posted by dreamkillers
Possibly but I've been lucky enough to see all of them live at some stage............and as aways their music lives on no matter what............

Faith No More did a tour of Australia just before their chart success where they played at smaller club venues around the country and were awesome to see in that environment............

Nah mate STP is who I really want to see live, with my mate Mr J ;)

27 Dec 2002, 14:57

http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28160&highlight=nirvana+vs+pearl

Port1978

27 Dec 2002, 16:09

Nirvana are better by far. But I do like Pearl Jam as well.

M29

27 Dec 2002, 16:40

Originally posted by Mr Eagle
(Actually Def Leppard said "It's better to burn out than fade away" decades ago. They should have taken their own advice, of course.)

Hehe.

(That was actually from Neil Youngs Hey Hey, My My.)

M29

27 Dec 2002, 16:41

Not a fan of either. But, I'd rather listen to nirvana even if kurt was a junkie. That acoustic set they did on MYV was pretty good. eddie vedder ****s me for some reason.

Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk

27 Dec 2002, 19:48

am glad my favorite band of all time Nirvana went out when they did otherwise they may have ended up like Pearl Jam and Silverchair. Changing their sound in a sell out to commerical radio and alienating their original fanbase. Kurt was well before his time and obviously saw what was coming!

While on the topic, anybody seen the new Kurt Cobain diary type book thing? 50 bucks and all it is really is just pages and pages of Kurt's scribbles and original handwritten lyrics. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have but, will buy it eventually!

dreamkillers

27 Dec 2002, 20:14

Originally posted by Mcchawk
Nah mate STP is who I really want to see live, with my mate Mr J ;)

Funny how Mr J turns up at most shows............:D

Richmondfan#1

27 Dec 2002, 20:28

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
While on the topic, anybody seen the new Kurt Cobain diary type book thing? 50 bucks and all it is really is just pages and pages of Kurt's scribbles and original handwritten lyrics. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have but, will buy it eventually!

Yep me and a friend flicked through it a few weeks ago. Looks a great, involving read. My friend said that it felt almost wrong to read his inner most thoughts and feelings. In a way it is although it's so interesting to know what went on his his head. I would like it but for $50, I might wait for it to go down.

Dipper

27 Dec 2002, 20:38

The_Flying_Egg

27 Dec 2002, 20:48

JMAC5

28 Dec 2002, 00:01

Oasis :)

oh and Pearl Jam by a mile, imagine how people would rate them if Eddie killed himself :eek:

Death, it does amazing things for peoples careers

ozzult

28 Dec 2002, 02:46

Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Pearl Jam selling out to commercial radio??? They've gone the other way. They released Nothing as it Seems on their 2nd last album, knowing radio wouldn't touch it. They released I am Mine on Riot Act, hardly a Fox FM or Mix FM favourite. They're albums now are far less commercial friendly than albums like Ten and Vs.

PJ haven't alienated their original fanbase. They've alienated everyone else. They're concerts still sell out in 5 seconds because they still have their original fans. Its just that its only their original fans still buying the albums, because they're music doesn't appeal to the mainstream

You might be happy that Kurt didn't like his brains and Nirvana are dead, but I don't think you're as happy as those with PJ tickets for a few weeks time.

U make Kurt sound like a hero for getting out because he apparently 'saw what was coming'. The reality is he was a pathetic, weak nutbag. He didn't do his fans a favour by killing himself, he let them down
I was going to post something which pretty much summed up what you just said, but then I saw who posted it, and I said ... "Ahhh fuhgeddaboutitt!!"

Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk

28 Dec 2002, 14:45

Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg
Pearl Jam selling out to commercial radio??? They've gone the other way. They released Nothing as it Seems on their 2nd last album, knowing radio wouldn't touch it. They released I am Mine on Riot Act, hardly a Fox FM or Mix FM favourite. They're albums now are far less commercial friendly than albums like Ten and Vs.

I didn't mean for Creed fans to comment

Mr Eagle

28 Dec 2002, 15:01

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
I didn't mean for Creed fans to comment Well there's an intelligent and well-reasoned response to a fair point if ever I saw one...

JMAC5

28 Dec 2002, 23:51

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
I didn't mean for Creed fans to comment

**** me, imagine how respected Scotty Stapp would become if he knocked himself off..

Get a clue and a response.. please

And I don't want a Nirvana fan to respond so don't

Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk

29 Dec 2002, 08:32

Originally posted by JMAC5
**** me, imagine how respected Scotty Stapp would become if he knocked himself off..

Get a clue and a response.. please

And I don't want a Nirvana fan to respond so don't

How about i get one of my tandem workers to respond on behalf of me? Apart from working together on almost every single comeback what else do you, Flying Egg and Bulldogs1954 share?

Fraser

29 Dec 2002, 17:30

What a year 1991 was with Nirvana, Pearl Jam, Guns N Roses and Faith No More all releasing songs that we will never forget!
For anyone who has the Hormoaning EP and Blew EP, these 2 songs D-7 and Been a Son (bass solo version) should have been released on Incesticide Album IMO. They are really great songs! Download them if you have not heard of them.

The_Flying_Egg

29 Dec 2002, 21:28

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
How about i get one of my tandem workers to respond on behalf of me? Apart from working together on almost every single comeback what else do you, Flying Egg and Bulldogs1954 share?

How about in 2/3rds of my posts I mention how Im a blonde Princess, or how I dress like a ****, or how Im so pretty and everyone should look at me. Or maybe I should always fight with BluesBabe cos its possible she might actually be better looking or more popular than me? Perhaps if Im bored I should just start threads about how Jews suck?

Maybe JMAC5 responded because anyone with half a brain could realise that what u posted was rubbish. And God forbid I'd respond. Im not allowed to because I like one of the biggest bands in the world.

JMAC5

30 Dec 2002, 14:18

I agree with everything in the above post ;)

Don't forget Mr Eagle, he agreed with us, he is one of us too

Mr Eagle

30 Dec 2002, 14:55

Originally posted by JMAC5
Don't forget Mr Eagle, he agreed with us, he is one of us too I will happily fight dumb comments wherever they lurk ;) (and I hate Creed!)

In their later years, Pearl Jam went "commercial" exactly once - and that was Last Kiss. This song however had already been released as a fan club Xmas track, and was released only to coincide with its presence on a charity album for (I believe) Kosovar refugees. Hardly a sell-out by anyone's standards.
And when you consider

the un-commercial first singles of later albums (Given To Fly, Nothing As It Seems, I Am Mine)
the failure of later, radio-friendlier singles (Wishlist, and the beautiful Light Years)
the lack of advertising push for Yield and Binaural (though improved slightly for Riot Act)

if you still reckon that's a sell-out, then I hope Santa brought you a clue for Xmas because you seem to be in dire need of one.

Fraser

30 Dec 2002, 14:56

SydneyBomber

30 Dec 2002, 14:59

one band had a semblance of credibility (but still sucked), the other have always been corporate rock whores (who definitely sucked).

which one is which?
:o

AIC for me BTW. Why couldn't Eddie Vedder die of an OD instead of Layne?
:( :mad:

The_Flying_Egg

30 Dec 2002, 15:39

Originally posted by SydneyBomber
one band had a semblance of credibility (but still sucked), the other have always been corporate rock whores (who definitely sucked).

which one is which?
:o

AIC for me BTW. Why couldn't Eddie Vedder die of an OD instead of Layne?
:( :mad:

You're pathetic

SydneyBomber

1 Jan 2003, 19:32

Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg
You're pathetic

pffft.
Coming from a Creed lover to boot!
:o

The_Flying_Egg

2 Jan 2003, 14:17

Originally posted by SydneyBomber
pffft.
Coming from a Creed lover to boot!
:o

Yes, liking Creed is more pathetic than joking about Eddie Vedder dying :rolleyes:

CowboyFromHell

2 Jan 2003, 14:31

Want a band who never sold out??

PAN-TER-A

PAN-TER-A

PAN-TER-A

Better than all of them......but that's all off topic, so I'll stick with Nirvana. :o :)

the REAL dingo

2 Jan 2003, 14:48

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
While on the topic, anybody seen the new Kurt Cobain diary type book thing? 50 bucks and all it is really is just pages and pages of Kurt's scribbles and original handwritten lyrics. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have but, will buy it eventually!

I got it! It's unreal... digitally photographed pages from his journals. Very interesting... The scribbles are what make the book authentic and interesting to read, a heavy full-on sorta insight into the head of our Kurdt.

GhostofJimJess

2 Jan 2003, 22:22

I don't feel obligated to rank two great bands, as if it's some trashy pop contest between Boy George v Marilyn, or Abba v The Bay City Rollers.

Both were great live, and I'll quite comfortably play Nirvana AND Pearl Jam when in different moods.

One thing is for certain, however. Pearl Jam would probably not exist today without the path that was forged by Nirvana.

Mr Eagle

2 Jan 2003, 23:33

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
One thing is for certain, however. Pearl Jam would probably not exist today without the path that was forged by Nirvana. Nirvana made the alt-rock sound popular, but they didn't make other bands any good. Pearl Jam made Pearl Jam good by being quality musicians, and herein lies the key to PJ's longevity. Many bands got extra exposure when alt-rock was big, but most died quickly because they were fair to average. If there had been no Nirvana, PJ would still be around and still be very very good, they just wouldn't have the same record sales or worldwide popularity. And I really don't think this would stop PJ from making music...

Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk

3 Jan 2003, 18:27

Originally posted by The_Flying_Egg
How about in 2/3rds of my posts I mention how Im a blonde Princess, or how I dress like a ****, or how Im so pretty and everyone should look at me. Or maybe I should always fight with BluesBabe cos its possible she might actually be better looking or more popular than me? Perhaps if Im bored I should just start threads about how Jews suck?

Maybe JMAC5 responded because anyone with half a brain could realise that what u posted was rubbish. And God forbid I'd respond. Im not allowed to because I like one of the biggest bands in the world.

Maybe JMAC is still dirty on me for knocking his fat arse back the 100 times he tried to stalk me telling me he would kill himself if he couldn't have me and is therefore getting you and your brother to harrass me on the bigfooty site? I hear i'm not the first girl on here that he's tried this on. Stick to Blanche and Lorrae Desmond threads i think because that sense of humour of yours just entertains us all so much!

The_Flying_Egg

3 Jan 2003, 19:11

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
Maybe JMAC is still dirty on me for knocking his fat arse back the 100 times he tried to stalk me telling me he would kill himself if he couldn't have me and is therefore getting you and your brother to harrass me on the bigfooty site? I hear i'm not the first girl on here that he's tried this on. Stick to Blanche and Lorrae Desmond threads i think because that sense of humour of yours just entertains us all so much!

How dumb are you for taking JMAC5 seriously??

And Im not harassing you, u bagged us for no apparent reason so I responded.

jaxx

3 Jan 2003, 19:27

Even though i pretty much have no idea what you're on about, this is a magnificent stoush...keep it coming.

By the way, Pearl Jam are the greatest band in the world (and the greatest live band in the world by a long way). Bring on Feb 16, then Feb 18, Feb 19 and Feb 20!

JMAC5

3 Jan 2003, 23:39

ramjet

8 Jan 2003, 10:25

pearl jam by a mile. nirvana were great but pearl jam were always better musicians. lyrically, its a matter of taste between ed and kurt. personally, i'd take ed. mike mccready and ed have said a couple of times they feel no need to ever attempt making another 'ten' record, as every second band out there is already doing it. the music has changed as they have grown as people and as a band. nirvana may have done likewise so its a poor comparison i guess. but for the sake of it, pearl jam easily. bring on Feb 8.

Stocka

10 Jan 2003, 08:26

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
One thing is for certain, however. Pearl Jam would probably not exist today without the path that was forged by Nirvana.

Pearl Jam still would have been huge without Nirvana. You can't forget, that the band was basically forged as an all-star outfit (from previous incarnations), with a manic lead singer to boot. They already had an ideal for their 'sound', and it's arguable that their previous incarnations were on the peak of cracking it big at any rate.

Even without Nirvana, Pearl Jam would have easily picked up the white-male audience that was previously following Guns and Roses.

Stocka

10 Jan 2003, 08:41

Originally posted by SydneyBomber
the other have always been corporate rock whores (who definitely sucked).

If Pearl Jam are 'rock whores', they have certainly done it in a very clever manner as to still retain interest and credibility amongst a broad section of the music industry.

The band in once sense, has always veered away from explicit corporatisation (sacking members for signing endorsement deals, refusing videos for singles, initial releases of records on vinyl, boycotting tours, refusing interviews, etc), however, it could be argued that in a sense of "reverse psychology" they manipulated those who were interested by appearing to be something different, in the model of the rock rebellion (which is where I think you are coming from with your point).

You could argue, that their apparent disdain for the corporate side of rock, was in fact a ploy in order to gain further hype amongst the music industry - however, to do something like that really requires a lot of guess work in regards to piecing together the bands intentions. Certainly though, the whole "anti-corporate rock" ideal pushed by the band, tended to gain them more hype (massive hype), then if they had

Personally, I think songs like 'Cherub Rock' (Smashing Pumpkins), and 'Hooker with a Penis' (Tool) sum the situation up perfectly (if you read between the lines). People love to see freaks, or people who are different to themselves in some way, or symbolise a rebelious ideal. Pearl Jam for many in a certain era symbolised this and more (whether people feel that it was genuine, is another point). A large part of music is about playing a role - whether that be as someone going mental in-front of a stadium of hyped-out fans, or even as a shoe-gazer in a bar on Friday night. Each genre/scene has its place, IMO.

IMO, their music is of a quality that it doesn't particularly bother me if there was some sort of agenda behind it. I think that Vs and Vitalogy are brilliant albums, and I'm not particularly fazed by what the band, or band members themselves have gotten out of it. Corporate rock or not, they are still better and more interesting than a lot of other bands who have come and gone over the last decade or so.

PrideofSA

13 Jan 2003, 19:01

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
am glad my favorite band of all time Nirvana went out when they did otherwise they may have ended up like Pearl Jam and Silverchair. Changing their sound in a sell out to commerical radio and alienating their original fanbase. Kurt was well before his time and obviously saw what was coming!

While on the topic, anybody seen the new Kurt Cobain diary type book thing? 50 bucks and all it is really is just pages and pages of Kurt's scribbles and original handwritten lyrics. Wouldn't be a bad thing to have but, will buy it eventually!

lol.

If u actually know anything about music, Silverchair in particular have develpoed into a very respectible band. Their song writing has developed a lot and the arrangements and instrymentation with Silverchair is fantastic. Basically they have finally matured.

Not to say that the older stuff is bad, i like it, but not as good musically. But to say they have sold out is a joke. They were probably more popular when they were 14 anyway, which is argueable. Also with Pearl Jam, they haven't probably developed as much as Silverchair and musically aren't as good but they certainly haven't sold out, as in the 90's they would have been more popular.

I really hat the term 'sold out'. To me any respectible artist develops and matures and you can't do the same thing forever, you must change and always find new and better and different ways of doing things. Because to make a record just like people expect it is a cop out. I have a quote from brandon Boyd of Incubus (they haven't been around long enough yet to be classed as 'sell outs' but they are still developing yet i think they are fantastic.)

From Brandon Boyd of Incubus;
" The easiest thing in the world would be to repeat the same equations that worked for us in the past, but with repetition would come demise. We needed to start fresh and rewire our transmitters. And in doing so, we wrote what is in my opinion our best record yet.

I hope that some who listen to it agree. I am aware that many will not, for stratospheric string orchestrations, Disney-esque, trip-hop escapades, lyrics about contentment under a full moon, and not a shred of rap in our metal usually spells trouble for a rock band with aspirations of success. But if two of you out there enjoy it as much as we enjoyed creating it, I will feel like we accomplished worlds. And for those who don't like it, you can bite me. Our record cover will look great even in the used CD bin."

Macca19

13 Jan 2003, 19:15

Originally posted by PrideofSA
I really hat the term 'sold out'. To me any respectible artist develops and matures and you can't do the same thing forever, you must change and always find new and better and different ways of doing things.

Still doesnt mean bands dont sellout. Offspring soldout bigtime. They went from the best punk band in the world to the biggest jokes in the music industry in the space of two albums. Americana wasnt too bad, but that last "piece of work" they call an album was a disgrace.

Fear Factory stated that they changed their sound to a more commercial friendly sound for their last album Digimortal in the hope it would bring them a gold record because they had never gotten one before. Altho the record isnt a huge difference from Obsolete ...the fact the band came out and said that disgusted me. What made it worse was that they also said they would give it away once they got this gold record. They got the gold record, they gave it away.

Machine Head is another that I would say changed their sound to become more radio friendly in the hope they would make more money and at the same time alienating their original fanbase.

There is a big difference between selling out and maturing. Incubus matured their sound. Korn matured their sound. Sevendust matured.

PrideofSA

13 Jan 2003, 19:23

Yeh I totally agree with you. Especially with the OffSpring one., but the term is used for any band that seems to mature their sound and gain some popularity. In most cases the term is wrong, which is why i hate it.

Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk

17 Jan 2003, 20:03

Originally posted by PrideofSA
lol.

If u actually know anything about music, Silverchair in particular have develpoed into a very respectible band. Their song writing has developed a lot and the arrangements and instrymentation with Silverchair is fantastic. Basically they have finally matured.

Not to say that the older stuff is bad, i like it, but not as good musically. But to say they have sold out is a joke. They were probably more popular when they were 14 anyway, which is argueable. Also with Pearl Jam, they haven't probably developed as much as Silverchair and musically aren't as good but they certainly haven't sold out, as in the 90's they would have been more popular.

I really hat the term 'sold out'. To me any respectible artist develops and matures and you can't do the same thing forever, you must change and always find new and better and different ways of doing things. Because to make a record just like people expect it is a cop out. I have a quote from brandon Boyd of Incubus (they haven't been around long enough yet to be classed as 'sell outs' but they are still developing yet i think they are fantastic.)

From Brandon Boyd of Incubus;
" The easiest thing in the world would be to repeat the same equations that worked for us in the past, but with repetition would come demise. We needed to start fresh and rewire our transmitters. And in doing so, we wrote what is in my opinion our best record yet.

I hope that some who listen to it agree. I am aware that many will not, for stratospheric string orchestrations, Disney-esque, trip-hop escapades, lyrics about contentment under a full moon, and not a shred of rap in our metal usually spells trouble for a rock band with aspirations of success. But if two of you out there enjoy it as much as we enjoyed creating it, I will feel like we accomplished worlds. And for those who don't like it, you can bite me. Our record cover will look great even in the used CD bin."

you're right sold out was the wrong term, just changed their tune, alienated their die hard fanbase in order to target a more vulnerable market...the teeny one! Living End are another one who did it!

Stocka

17 Jan 2003, 21:45

jod23

18 Jan 2003, 05:04

Silverchair are THE best Australian band right now...no question. They are not my favourite band (Go the Jebs) but lyrically and musically they destroy every other australian band on the market.

Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk

18 Jan 2003, 08:39

Originally posted by Stocka
When were Silverchair anything more than a teen band?

Grungey teenies are NOT teenies i am referring to ex Hanson lovers!

Stocka

18 Jan 2003, 17:07

Originally posted by jod23
Silverchair are THE best Australian band right now...no question. They are not my favourite band (Go the Jebs) but lyrically and musically they destroy every other australian band on the market.

Have you heard "every other band on the market" in order to make an informed opinion?

Stocka

18 Jan 2003, 17:13

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
Grungey teenies are NOT teenies i am referring to ex Hanson lovers!

Grungy teenies as opposed to ex-Hanson teenies? It's all starting to sound like episodes from a Dutch video series . . .

ramjet

19 Jan 2003, 11:53

Originally posted by jod23
Silverchair are THE best Australian band right now...no question. ...lyrically and musically they destroy every other australian band on the market.

silverchair are a very good band but LYRICALLY, i think they are somewhat lacking when compared to other bands, oz or o/s. not to say its terrible by any means by its hardly masterpiece stuff that its claimed as. musically, very good and pretty innovative but lyrically, i could name a number of songwriters i think are better. paul dempsey and glenn richards for a start. just my opinion though.

Lockyer24

19 Jan 2003, 16:09

I really dont rate Pearl Jam at all, really am not a fan of Vedders voice. Have to go with Nirvana.

PrideofSA

21 Jan 2003, 19:08

Originally posted by Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk
you're right sold out was the wrong term, just changed their tune, alienated their die hard fanbase in order to target a more vulnerable market...the teeny one! Living End are another one who did it!

nah no way, Silverchair are just writing some awesome and more mature music, i don't think they are targetting any market, ppl are just buying their stuff coz it's good. Living End haven't changed, well they have but not for the better and this is why ppl aren't buying their stuff.

Spidergirl~RiCkChiCk

21 Jan 2003, 19:41

Originally posted by PrideofSA
Living End haven't changed, well they have but not for the better and this is why ppl aren't buying their stuff.

Sounds too much the same and boring song after song u reckon or just got overdone by bloody triple j when prisoner came out?
I know a lot of their original fans back in their so called ska days felt alienated coz they made the big time. They used to have a fairly big following up at our local pub.

PrideofSA

21 Jan 2003, 19:45

I got their first 2 albums, and the first is miles better, they seem to get worse all the time.

Carlos

21 Jan 2003, 23:38

Originally posted by PrideofSA
I got their first 2 albums, and the first is miles better, they seem to get worse all the time.
Why? Because they aren't writing obvious, unchallenging, immature power-pop songs anymore and your little ignorant ears cant get a grip on much more than that?

Have you got the first 2 EP's as well? Have you seen them live playing their new, unreleased material yet? "Getting worse all the time"? I presume you're saying that from an educated point of view?

I wasnt a Living End fan at all going by their first LP. Yeah, i could see the appeal for the kids, but it was very ho hum and there were (are) so many Aussie bands at that time who deserved the hype more IMO.

Then i heard "Roll On" on the night it was released at a mate's place and it caught me hugely by suprise. Terrific album. Bought it soon after and IMO it went pretty close to Australian album of that year and is hugely under-rated. Excellent song writing, tasteful and very thought out musicianship and easily one of the best productions of any recentish Aussie album.

Since then have bought every release and their early stuff isnt a shade on Roll On or the new stuff i heard them play live recently, although admittedly they have evolved significantly so its a bit hard to compare.

PrideofSA

22 Jan 2003, 01:00

lol, nah no way dude, have u heard the new song they are folggin off on triple J, is quite laughable.

I have however been a big fan of Chris Cheney's guitar work, but what i see as a big problem is that their music doesn't have enough dynamics and displays little emotion, but rather is written from a political view point. THe softer songs on Roll On, don't quite cut it, but overall it probably is a more mature album, but I didn't like it as much. There were some good songs on the self titled release apart from the big singles. The song Roll on for instance doesn't get my attention because it's too politcal and means nothing to me. If they could get more emotion involved they be around for a long time, otherwise I'll still listen to their stuff once in a while, is still good too listen to, i just believe my musical tastes have changed since i bought their first album a few years ago. I guess you can say i've widened my musical taste making them seem less of a listenable option for me.

PrideofSA

22 Jan 2003, 01:04

By the Way, on ur profile it says Fuse, so i went to the website, are u in that band? if u are do u have any original stuff, i wouldn't mind listening. Listen to mine too if u want. Also i can get u a good website done, well not pro but better than what is there.

Carlos

22 Jan 2003, 09:48

Originally posted by PrideofSA
lol, nah no way dude, have u heard the new song they are folggin off on triple J, is quite laughable.
Thats a down load from their website and isnt a genuine release. Its a novelty song. Their new stuff is very good, and i certainly wouldnt be stupid enough to judge a band's material on the strength of one song. "One said to the other" is the first single and while being a smartly arranged and very effective pop/rock song, it still isnt truly reflective of the new material they've been playing live.

Originally posted by PrideofSA
I have however been a big fan of Chris Cheney's guitar work, but what i see as a big problem is that their music doesn't have enough dynamics
You're kidding (amongst other things)? Have you actually listened to the second album?

Originally posted by PrideofSA
and displays little emotion,
Neither do Queens of the Stoneage, yet you rate them as one of your favs (after hearing one song). Neither do AC/DC for that matter. Are they no good as well? They're a ****en rock band mate!!
Originally posted by PrideofSA
but rather is written from a political view point.
Too much for you to take in is it? And yeah, if being political means a band is no good, then bands the likes of Midnight Oil, Sepultura, Refused (off to google for ya) etc just wasted their time didnt they?
Originally posted by PrideofSA
THe softer songs on Roll On, don't quite cut it, but overall it probably is a more mature album, but I didn't like it as much. There were some good songs on the self titled release apart from the big singles. The song Roll on for instance doesn't get my attention because it's too politcal and means nothing to me. If they could get more emotion involved they be around for a long time, otherwise I'll still listen to their stuff once in a while, is still good too listen to, i just believe my musical tastes have changed since i bought their first album a few years ago. I guess you can say i've widened my musical taste making them seem less of a listenable option for me.
Whatever you say Molly.

Carlos

22 Jan 2003, 09:56

Originally posted by PrideofSA
By the Way, on ur profile it says Fuse, so i went to the website, are u in that band?
Yes, its a job.
Originally posted by PrideofSA
if u are do u have any original stuff,
Not with that band, like i said, its a job. Stupid venues pay even more stupider amounts of money for me to drink their beer and entertain their crowd with moronic music. Who am i to argue?
Originally posted by PrideofSA
Listen to mine too if u want.
I did. Good onya for getting out there and having a go and all that, but your tunes really didnt do it for me. Sounded a bit generic and didnt have a heap of life or character. No offense.
Originally posted by PrideofSA
Also i can get u a good website done, well not pro but better than what is there.
She'll be right thanks. Our's is very much under construction, but websites for a cover band are purely a means to an end, nothing more.

PrideofSA

22 Jan 2003, 09:56

You obviously haven't heard much about dynamics and emotion in music. Coz TLE have niether. ALso QOTSA have more emotion than LTE, u can just tell from the song and the way it's put together.

PrideofSA

22 Jan 2003, 10:04

Originally posted by Carlos
Yes, its a job.

Not with that band, like i said, its a job. Stupid venues pay even more stupider amounts of money for me to drink their beer and entertain their crowd with moronic music. Who am i to argue?

I did. Good onya for getting out there and having a go and all that, but your tunes really didnt do it for me. Sounded a bit generic and didnt have a heap of life or character. No offense.

She'll be right thanks. Our's is very much under construction, but websites for a cover band are purely a means to an end, nothing more.

Ok suit yourself then. By the way, our band isn't at all generic, most ppl that hear us say it's different to what they have heard b4, but you would hav eonly heard 2 tracks, and those would be more 'generic' than the rest anyway.

But just playing covers is more 'generic'

PrideofSA

22 Jan 2003, 10:07

Oh and, i can accpet that you don't like our stuff, fair enough, but generic is what we aren't. Wrong word used. We prife ourselves on mainly our singers voice because it's so unique.

Mcchawk

22 Jan 2003, 10:13

Oasis **** on both.

Noel Gallagher would be wanted to play by both bands.

BTWN- Silverchair are Australia's premier rock band, The Living End have never sold out.

Santos L Helper

22 Jan 2003, 10:54

Originally posted by PrideofSA
You obviously haven't heard much about dynamics and emotion in music. Coz TLE have niether. ALso QOTSA have more emotion than LTE, u can just tell from the song and the way it's put together.

And neither have you lot. Your music is bland and generic. You won't agree because it's your music but believe me, you need to give your songwriter a kick up the arse.

Now, why not ask me what gives me the right to give an opinion.

Carlos

22 Jan 2003, 11:04

Originally posted by PrideofSA
You obviously haven't heard much about dynamics and emotion in music.
Really Molly? Please, help me see the light and set me on the right path with your obviously rich pearls of wisdom.

Define dynamics for me. I always thought it referred to colour and shade, lows and highs, time and space. But obviously my 15 years of playing drums in bands has taught me nothing. Thanks for setting me straight on this one.
Originally posted by PrideofSA
Coz TLE have niether. ALso QOTSA have more emotion than LTE, u can just tell from the song and the way it's put together.
Succinct and knowledgable. That is the only way to explain this post. And you've come to this assumption by hearing how many QOTSA albums (or songs to make it a bit easier for you)?

Its rock music mate. Dont complicate it.

Seen the Living End Live before ya spud? Not saying they are the be all and end all by any means, but raw live dynamics is something they certainly have a grasp of.
Originally posted by PrideofSA
But just playing covers is more 'generic'
Indeed. And the money is fantastic!! Its a choice thing mate, not because i actually want to play sh*te music. Its a p*ss easy way to make a living. Means to an end.

Have done my hard yards in Melbourne's indie scene and loved every minute of it. Thrived onthe creative process and loved the live vibe.

But at some point, the line needs to be drawn and more pragmatic (non-musical) aims and goals need attending to. Cover bands are evil, make no mistake, but if i can be paid obscene amounts of money (relatively speaking in the music scene that is) for doing it, i'm not going to argue.

I am under no illusions. Be clear on that.

ramjet

22 Jan 2003, 12:19

christ carlos....just how much are you getting for these gigs? a career change never looked so good.

Macca19

22 Jan 2003, 13:34

Originally posted by PrideofSA
Oh and, i can accpet that you don't like our stuff, fair enough, but generic is what we aren't. Wrong word used. We prife ourselves on mainly our singers voice because it's so unique.

You sound like every other semi hard rock band going around. Thats been done a billion times before. From those two songs you put up for judgement on your website, there is nothing that stands you apart from 2-3 dozen other rock bands ive heard in the last 12 months whether be local or international. Songs like Broken World have been done a million times before and are generic. The chorus riff in Broken World ive heard about 40 different bands use before. Automuse is a good song but again, nothing different to other songs ive heard other bands do. Easy riffs. If you dont want people to think you are generic then put some other songs on your website. Maybe generic isnt the right word. Maybe Original is the word that should of been used by Carlos instead of generic. Original you are not. I woulda thought it a good idea to put two fairly original sounding songs on your website instead of your two 'most generic ones' (your words, not mine).

You want an Adelaide based band which isnt generic. Try Chalice. Inspite. Barcode. even someone like Tidal.

As for your singers voice..top voice. But again, ive heard singers with similar voices before. Aaron Lewis springs to mind immediately.

Carlos

22 Jan 2003, 17:00

Originally posted by ramjet
christ carlos....
Been called many things, but i'm not quite worthy of that title mate!! ;)

But if PrideofMollyMeldrum's opinion of himself is anything to go, perhaps he is our next messiah?

Originally posted by ramjet
just how much are you getting for these gigs? a career change never looked so good.
Depends on the gig obviously, but $250+ per member per gig is pretty standard. And its easy money, as long as you can grit your teeth and smile as you churn out the utter shlock that the kids wanna hear. :rolleyes:

PrideofSA

22 Jan 2003, 21:31

The word original is a better word, coz what we are doing isn't anything that hasn't been done b4, but we do still sound like us we believe and as we develop musically we hopefully will become more original, but it's fun and a lot of positive feedback has come our way. So we know we are moving in the right direction, gotta get the live show down though. Working on it as we speak.

Also, no I haven't seen TLE, but i wish i had, hopefully one day, coz i really luv listening to Chris Cheney's guitar work. Also you sound like a professional, you as a drummer would obviously know about dynamics (that being the drummers main role to control dynamics) So I trust your judgment. However I could not see Cheney writing an emotional song at this stage of his career, however he probably will as time progresses.

Thats about it too....chill out, it's all in the name or art and art is fantastic.

PrideofSA

22 Jan 2003, 21:35

Oh and one other thing, we don't have anymore songs recorded, unfortunately those tracks were recorded and mixed in 1 day as we won the time from winning a battle of the bands, but managment says that in the next few months after we string some quality shows together we will be recording an EP, as to which will feature less commercial songs, generally a little harder than those 2 tracks. hehe weren't hard to put together.

We were happy with how they came out considering the time contraints that we had, thats why it's probably a step down on a top act regarding sound production.