View Full Version : Our bottom 18
Porthos
26 Dec 2002, 21:56
F......Che...........White..........Ackland
HF...Patful.......Champion......Borlase
C.....Ebert.........Salopek......Koulouriotis
HB...Cochrane....Thurstans.....Gilham
B.....Guerra.......Morgan.........Poulton
Ruck: Brogan, Cassisi, Hall
Looks a bit different this year - I assume that Pickett and Wilson would walk into the first 22, displacing Poulton and Guerra in the process. I also took a punt that we'd only play Primus and Lade as rucks, with Bishop maybe taking on a bit of ruckwork.
If not, then swap out Brogan for Kingsley, move Ackland to ruck (the only reserve ruck), Guerra to the forward pocket and Kingsley to back pocket.
As we can see, plenty of tall KPPs, even if they are completely unproven, and for all of my complaints pre-draft we don't appear to have too many flankers any more (although the players most likely to make the senior side for a few games this year are flankers).
Superficially, we appear to have a lack of backup small forwards, but over half of our midfield has trained in that role and will be rotating through there in the senior side.
I think the only real concern with this side is the lack of AFL experience they have - this will only be solved if we suffer horrendous injures (which we hope we don't have), a lot of poor form (which we hope we don't have), or a bit more rotation between first and second 18s (which is probably a good idea).
rubberman
26 Dec 2002, 22:17
One of our tall forwards going down would stretch us also. White being injured and Champion inexperienced it would involve a shuffle to find a tall forward out of the players we have. Otherwise we are covered in a lot of positions. Its hard to know what to want sometimes when I want our first 22 to play well,but also I would like to see some of the above mentioned players to get a run.
YOu know you've got a deep list when players like Guerra, CCC, Poults, Cochrane, Brogan & Cassisi are players 23-28. As well as untried youngsters like Salopek, White, Thurstans & Morgan, any of whom could have an impact at AFL level next year.
dreamkillers
26 Dec 2002, 23:32
Originally posted by rubberman
One of our tall forwards going down would stretch us also. White being injured and Champion inexperienced it would involve a shuffle to find a tall forward out of the players we have. Otherwise we are covered in a lot of positions. Its hard to know what to want sometimes when I want our first 22 to play well,but also I would like to see some of the above mentioned players to get a run.
Our biggest problem would be if Tredders suffered a major injury as we still don't have that proven 3rd key forward yet...........but we have players capable of taking on that role..........
I'd like to see both Brogan and Lade in the side on the basis one is used up forward as both have the ability to play that role which also eases Primus's role around the ground.............to me 2nd ruck will be fought out in the pre season between these 2 with Primus having a light run early on...........
Our other problem would also come via injury to 1/2 of our tall backmen.............
IMO the key to our success in 2002 will rely on one or both of Morgan/Thurstans stepping up to claim a spot in the side..............should they finally step up from 'potential' as we all hope our KPP stocks are in very good shape............
It would be good to see White put pressure on once he resumes from injury............and who knows given an unexpected chance what Champion and Gillham could do.............sometimes it doesn't hurt a player getting some early opportunities - and it sure hasn't been easy for Morgan/Thurstans to get a chance over the last 3-4 years with the strength of our backlines.........
All in all the depth of our squad is looking even better in 2003 and at the same time there will be opportunities for players to step up and show they have what it takes...............
How many more days..............:D
dreamkillers
26 Dec 2002, 23:38
Haven't heard much about him in the off season but Hall could be one of those players that takes the game by the scruff of the neck once given the chance.............if Cassisi, Hall and Koula can show some early form our mid field stocks are looking even stronger with Salopek probably not expected to get a run until 2004 unless early form proves otherwise............
Both Poulton and Guerra will have to show even more to get a run in 2003 but we all know both are more than capable of playing at AFL standard and will have to make the most of their opportunities................
Porthos
27 Dec 2002, 08:33
Originally posted by dreamkillers
Both Poulton and Guerra will have to show even more to get a run in 2003 but we all know both are more than capable of playing at AFL standard and will have to make the most of their opportunities................ Of course, there's a few in the top 22 that could reasonably slip - Kingsley, Schofield, Paxman....I think the pressure is very much on these players, there's not a lot between them and the SANFL if the cards fall wrong.
dreamkillers
27 Dec 2002, 08:52
Originally posted by Porthos
Of course, there's a few in the top 22 that could reasonably slip - Kingsley, Schofield, Paxman....I think the pressure is very much on these players, there's not a lot between them and the SANFL if the cards fall wrong.
Yep it will be interesting to see what pass is given to Kingsley in 2003 and Schofield needs to be more consistent than 2002.
Who knows given a good run in the pre-season there could be a few other changes to the squad for the first match against West Coast on the 29th March.
57 days til our first pre season match
64 days til Darwins pre season match
92 days til the real stuff begins
Not that I'm counting or anything............ :D
Originally posted by dreamkillers
Who knows given a good run in the pre-season there could be a few other changes to the squad for the first match against West Coast on the 29th March.
57 days til our first pre season match
64 days til Darwins pre season match
92 days til the real stuff begins
Not that I'm counting or anything............ :D
Not long now, it will be back before we know. Can't wait for the first real game, hopefully i'll be over in Perth to watch it with a few mates who are coming all the way from the UK.
dreamkillers
27 Dec 2002, 10:08
Originally posted by Eago77
Not long now, it will be back before we know. Can't wait for the first real game, hopefully i'll be over in Perth to watch it with a few mates who are coming all the way from the UK.
I'll get some relief next month as I'm shifting and will finally have access to cable - I live in the city and can't access it but move to an outer suburb (still only a 15 min drive from the city) and it's available everywhere..........
I'm just praying we win the first pre season comp game......would love to see the boys up here again..........
Macca19
27 Dec 2002, 11:14
Only thing i really disagree about is Guerra being in there. I think he is to good not to get a game. Altho there might be players in set positions that would be in front of him, i think he is too good as a utility not to have in the side. We dont have a whole lot of players that can play at a good level in defence, attack and midfield. Guerra is one of them. Id definately have him in front of Kingsley.
If he doesnt get much of a run next year he'll be going back to Melbourne i reckon.
dreamkillers
27 Dec 2002, 12:54
Originally posted by Macca19
Only thing i really disagree about is Guerra being in there. I think he is to good not to get a game. Altho there might be players in set positions that would be in front of him, i think he is too good as a utility not to have in the side. We dont have a whole lot of players that can play at a good level in defence, attack and midfield. Guerra is one of them. Id definately have him in front of Kingsley.
If he doesnt get much of a run next year he'll be going back to Melbourne i reckon.
It will be a bit stiff if he missed team selection........perhaps we should each do our first 22 and have a look at whats available - if we hadn't already done-so before the bigfooty crash........
koulagirl22
27 Dec 2002, 19:02
Originally posted by Porthos
F......Che...........White..........Ackland
HF...Patful.......Champion......Borlase
C.....Ebert.........Salopek......Koulouriotis
HB...Cochrane....Thurstans.....Gilham
B.....Guerra.......Morgan.........Poulton
Ruck: Brogan, Cassisi, Hall
As we can see, plenty of tall KPPs, even if they are completely unproven, and for all of my complaints pre-draft we don't appear to have too many flankers any more (although the players most likely to make the senior side for a few games this year are flankers).
Problem with flankers is that while very few of those players are specialist flankers, most of them can play on the flank well enough. Another problem with flankers is that while you may stick a wing on a flank he'll still take a role more akin to a wingman and can really stuff up the plans of the other team.
I think that once the season gets going that bottom 22 will change somewhat as we figure out exactly who's improved how and where. Choco did say that all 22 spots would be looked at this year, so I reckon there'd be very few players in last years top 22 who wouldn't have serious competition for their spot (i.e. Primus etc)
Eddie Woloschek
27 Dec 2002, 20:04
Originally posted by koulagirl22
Choco did say that all 22 spots would be looked at this year, so I reckon there'd be very few players in last years top 22 who wouldn't have serious competition for their spot (i.e. Primus etc)
It will be a very quick look. Barring injuries, I'd reckon the only "new" players in 03 will be Wilson, Lade, Pickett - perhaps Cochrane, at times Brogan, and maybe Salopek.
Cassisi might hold the gold pass right now. We'll see how well he goes in the pre-season.
I hope we do get some impact from Thurstans, Morgan and Koula, but it's a tough lineup to crack.
Porthos
27 Dec 2002, 20:33
I agree with Macca and Eago that Guerra is unlucky, but I did my Mark Williams style first 22, and he was the out. I'll show you that 22.
F ....P. Burgoyne....C. Cornes.....Wanganeen
HF...Dew.................Tredrea........Pickett
C.....Schofield...........Carr............James
HB..Montgomery.....Wakelin......A. Kingsley
B....Hardwick.........Paxman........Bishop
Ruck: Primus, Stevens, Francou
Interchange: Lade, K. Cornes, S. Burgoyne, Wilson
Its a tough lineup to get into, even if you are Brent Guerra.
PAfolwr
27 Dec 2002, 20:47
Originally posted by Porthos
I agree with Macca and Eago that Guerra is unlucky, but I did my Mark Williams style first 22, and he was the out. I'll show you that 22.
F ....P. Burgoyne....C. Cornes.....Wanganeen
HF...Dew.................Tredrea........Pickett
C.....Schofield...........Carr............James
HB..Montgomery.....Wakelin......A. Kingsley
B....Hardwick.........Paxman........Bishop
Ruck: Primus, Stevens, Francou
Interchange: Lade, K. Cornes, S. Burgoyne, Wilson
Its a tough lineup to get into, even if you are Brent Guerra.
I think that barring injuries, that will be very very close to the starting line up in round one.
From Williams point of view he would think of himself as being radical by making two changes. ie Wilson and Pickett. :D
Eddie Woloschek
28 Dec 2002, 07:23
Originally posted by Porthos
F ....P. Burgoyne....C. Cornes.....Wanganeen
HF...Dew.................Tredrea........Pickett
C.....Schofield...........Carr............James
HB..Montgomery.....Wakelin......A. Kingsley
B....Hardwick.........Paxman........Bishop
Ruck: Primus, Stevens, Francou
Interchange: Lade, K. Cornes, S. Burgoyne, Wilson
A good team - Guerra is in the on-deck circle methinks - the question is how many of the others are ready for prime time? (or past prime time?) Think we could safely field Cochrane, even if it is just to do a job, but there is a big question mark over the rest. It's nice to dream that Ebert might make the same sort of impression his old man did in his first year, but it might take a bit longer. Still excited about Salopek. I think he has the footy smarts, which would rank him already above M Stevens (remember him?).
How many days?
Eddie Woloschek
28 Dec 2002, 07:32
Originally posted by Eddie Woloschek
A good team - Guerra is in the on-deck circle methinks - the question is how many of the others are ready for prime time? (or past prime time?)
OK, I left out Poulton - but how many tattoed blond guys named a character from The Big Valley do you want in one team? Seriously, Poults has given us a lot but his skill level is not quite there. Mind you, he'll probably stick, because he works hard enough and his skills might improve as a consequence. Here's hoping.
Originally posted by Porthos
I agree with Macca and Eago that Guerra is unlucky, but I did my Mark Williams style first 22, and he was the out. I'll show you that 22.
F ....P. Burgoyne....C. Cornes.....Wanganeen
HF...Dew.................Tredrea........Pickett
C.....Schofield...........Carr............James
HB..Montgomery.....Wakelin......A. Kingsley
B....Hardwick.........Paxman........Bishop
Ruck: Primus, Stevens, Francou
Interchange: Lade, K. Cornes, S. Burgoyne, Wilson
Its a tough lineup to get into, even if you are Brent Guerra.
A strong line-up that's for sure. Those under the most pressure in that line up are Kingsley & even maybe Schofield with the Guru, Cassisi & Cochrane the more likely replacements. Paxman (&maybe Bishop)will also have to prove themselves again to keep perhaps Thurstans (& Cochrane) out.
Obviously injuries happen and that's were the likes of Brogan, Che & Poults will also get a chance.
Porthos
28 Dec 2002, 21:57
Originally posted by Eago77
Paxman (&maybe Bishop)will also have to prove themselves again to keep perhaps Thurstans (& Cochrane) out.I think that with our available seconds, the `prove yourself' system has a major flaw.
If a senior player proves himself for the first 16 rounds, but hits poor form after that, what do you do? Hardly any of our seconds have AFL experience, and the only talls that do are Brogan and Ackland - both ruckmen (setting Adam Morgan's woeful two quarters of AFL game time aside)
If Bishop plays well for the first 16 rounds, but drops off from poor form or injury after that, do we really want to bring in Thurstans or Morgan for the all important last 6 games and finals? This is a problem we faced later in the year in the season just past after Wakelin copped his knock.
The only `safe' time to get our backups AFL ready is at the start of the season....the later you leave it, the higher the stakes, and we've already seen that the selectors aren't willing to gamble late in the year - they'd rather bring back AFL match unfit Mead and Wakelin than try a rookie.
If we are going to actually test & develop the likes of Thurstans and Morgan, it has to be AFL game time, and it has to be early in the year. If we don't do that, we might as well delist them right now. As long as they're in fair form, then these are the blokes we need to be making room for on the bench early on, no matter how good we think our extra flankers are, or our third tall backman.
dreamkillers
28 Dec 2002, 22:25
Originally posted by Porthos
If Bishop plays well for the first 16 rounds, but drops off from poor form or injury after that, do we really want to bring in Thurstans or Morgan for the all important last 6 games and finals? This is a problem we faced later in the year in the season just past after Wakelin copped his knock.
The only `safe' time to get our backups AFL ready is at the start of the season....the later you leave it, the higher the stakes, and we've already seen that the selectors aren't willing to gamble late in the year - they'd rather bring back AFL match unfit Mead and Wakelin than try a rookie.
If we are going to actually test & develop the likes of Thurstans and Morgan, it has to be AFL game time, and it has to be early in the year. If we don't do that, we might as well delist them right now. As long as they're in fair form, then these are the blokes we need to be making room for on the bench early on, no matter how good we think our extra flankers are, or our third tall backman.
That was glaringly obvious this year when Morgan played in rounds 15 & 16..........far too late in the season to be hoping for a player to make the grade.........
Thurstans played the first 3 pre-season comp games and then nothing............
I think we erred in keeping Meady in the side for so long - as much as I've loved watching him play for us for many years we would have been better off resting him in the first half of the year and giving Morgan/Thurstans some time to settle in............
At least that way Mead would have been a fitter and fresher player at the business end of the season when experience does count...........
If a player is to be given time to prove themselves it has to be in the first half of the season like you said.............
macca23
29 Dec 2002, 09:58
Originally posted by Porthos
The only `safe' time to get our backups AFL ready is at the start of the season....the later you leave it, the higher the stakes, and we've already seen that the selectors aren't willing to gamble late in the year - they'd rather bring back AFL match unfit Mead and Wakelin than try a rookie.
If we are going to actually test & develop the likes of Thurstans and Morgan, it has to be AFL game time, and it has to be early in the year. If we don't do that, we might as well delist them right now. As long as they're in fair form, then these are the blokes we need to be making room for on the bench early on, no matter how good we think our extra flankers are, or our third tall backman.
Agree with the principle of this posting 100%, whether we are talking about Port, Crows or whoever. You can't develop any further than SANFL standard unless you play at the highest level - AFL level.
Kane McGoodwin
29 Dec 2002, 18:55
Originally posted by Porthos
F......Che...........White..........Ackland
HF...Patful.......Champion......Borlase
C.....Ebert.........Salopek......Koulouriotis
HB...Cochrane....Thurstans.....Gilham
B.....Guerra.......Morgan.........Poulton
Ruck: Brogan, Cassisi, HallTo me the standout is a lack of experienced key forward coverage should either Tredrea or Cornes get injured for a sigificant period of time. It is a real pity about White's injury. Perhaps Brogan could be used as a CHF if required. I would have reasonable confidence that Thurstans could settle quite quickly in the Power backline if a tall was required. Also, you have heaps of depth with your flanker types who could walk straight into the side - ie. Guerra (surely he make your best 22), Poulton, Cochrane, CCC & Koula (who should be ready now). Salopek shouldn't take to long to be up to AFL standard either.
dreamkillers
29 Dec 2002, 19:14
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
To me the standout is a lack of experienced key forward coverage should either Tredrea or Cornes get injured for a sigificant period of time. It is a real pity about White's injury. Perhaps Brogan could be used as a CHF if required. I would have reasonable confidence that Thurstans could settle quite quickly in the Power backline if a tall was required. Also, you have heaps of depth with your flanker types who could walk straight into the side - ie. Guerra (surely he make your best 22), Poulton, Cochrane, CCC & Koula (who should be ready now). Salopek shouldn't take to long to be up to AFL standard either.
The third key forward has been the standout for a few years now and is why White was recruited in the first place.........
His injury was the reason Champion was picked up in this years draft.............
From the Advertiser.........
Considered somewhat of a draft "smokey", Champion, well-built at 88kg, had much of season 2002 ruined by injury.
But he can play and is renowned for his brute strength and pack marking. He was one of the few players in this year's draft who boasted real physical presence.
Port has kept tabs on him for two years, beating seven other clubs (crosstown rival Adelaide and six Victorian teams) for his services at the draft.
"Wade's a big, strong, strapping boy who is hard at it and can take a pack mark," Power recruiting manager Alan Stewart said.
"He's still raw and needs some work but he can play at centre half-forward and full forward and has a lot of upside. He was a player we took with an eye to the future and he helps balance our list."
Champion, who played three league games with West Adelaide this year after coming from Waikerie to join the Bloods in 2001, is not expected to break into AFL ranks next season. The Power intends bringing him along slowly with the aim of having him up and running in 2004, when he could provide the perfect foil for established stars Tredrea and Chad Cornes.
However Champion, who started training with Port at 8am yesterday, has other ideas. "My aim is to play at least a couple of (AFL) games next year, which I believe I can if I play at my peak," he said.
Lade is probably a chance if that happened and also Morgan has played a few games up forward for North so that's another possibility..........
I'd see both Lade and Brogan getting roles up forward in the pre season and depending on pre season training Champion could get a chance.........
Porthos
29 Dec 2002, 19:20
Whichever of Tredrea and Cornes wasn't injured would have to play CHF, and we could always shove Paxman at FF if necessary, if the form backup is a tall defender instead of a forward.
Originally posted by Porthos
Whichever of Tredrea and Cornes wasn't injured would have to play CHF, and we could always shove Paxman at FF if necessary, if the form backup is a tall defender instead of a forward.
Obviously if Tredders or Cornes got injured they would be very hard to cover. But not many teams have two tall forward players this good in the first place so we are lucky to have them, asking for a third is just plain greedy!
I agree that Morgan/Thurstan need to be given a spot in the team early in the year, even if it is just 3-4 games astarting on the bench an see how they go then give 'em a run in the SANFL then if form warrants bring them back for good.
koulagirl22
30 Dec 2002, 18:04
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Koula (who should be ready now).
Should? What don't you know, exactly?
dreamkillers
30 Dec 2002, 18:53
Originally posted by Eago77
Obviously if Tredders or Cornes got injured they would be very hard to cover. But not many teams have two tall forward players this good in the first place so we are lucky to have them, asking for a third is just plain greedy!
I'm greedy...........I still don't think Port won enough premierships in the SANFL since 1977.............only 13 in the last 26 years........;)
Kane McGoodwin
30 Dec 2002, 20:37
Originally posted by koulagirl22
Should? What don't you know, exactly? Should be ready to step up to AFL level as opposed to some of the younger players on the list. ie. Has served his aprenticeship. So are you going to tell me (exactly) what I don't know? ;)
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
Should be ready to step up to AFL level as opposed to some of the younger players on the list. ie. Has served his aprenticeship.
He should be physically ready by now and he's had enough time to develope, time to produce or he's out the door, that's for sure.
Originally posted by Kane McGoodwin
So are you going to tell me (exactly) what I don't know? ;)
How much time have we got? :p :D
koulagirl22
3 Jan 2003, 16:39
I'm quite happy to go on record as saying Koula will do well this year. He will do quite well for himself. Yes.
Originally posted by dreamkillers
I'll get some relief next month as I'm shifting and will finally have access to cable
Me too soon...at least I'll be able to watch the replays here in Tokyo
Porthos
18 Apr 2003, 02:51
Was this thread a jinx? In hindsight, it seems that right now we're getting everything we wanted :eek: :(