Pre corporate punk and garage music.......

[dreamkillers]

After coming across the J Files (http://www.abc.net.au/triplej/jfiles/default.htm) site on Friday and the recent posts about some of the great punk bands (not that trash they label punk today) I thought it would be a good idea to start a new thread.

I'd like to hear peoples thoughts on some of the live performances, classic albums, quotes and anything else about some of the great punk/garage bands they've seen or heard in their lifetime.

To give you an idea of the sorts of bands I'm talking about I've copied a couple of songlists that Richard Kingsmill played on the J files below..........

70'S PUNK PLAYLIST - 13/06/1996

Sex Pistols - "God Save The Queen"
The Saints - "I'm Stranded"
The Victims - "Television Addict"
The Ramones - "Sheena Is A Punk Rocker"
The Ramones - "Blitzkrieg Bop"
The Damned - "New Rose"
Thought Criminals - "Fun"
Sex Pistols - "Pretty Vacant"
Dead Kennedys - "Too Drunk To ****"
XL Capris - "My City Of Sydney"
Stiff Little Fingers - "Alternative Ulster"
Radio Birdman - "Burn My Eye"
X - "I Don't Wanna Go Out"
Richard Hell & The Voidoids - "Blank Generation"
X-Ray Spex - "Oh Bondage Up Yous"
The Germs - "Lexicon Devil"
The Clash - "Janie Jones"
The Jam - "In The City"
The Saints - "Wild About You"
The Go-Betweens - "People Say"
Boys Next Door - "Boy Hero"
Bad Religion - "**** Armagedon"
The Exploited - "Punk's Not Dead"
Sex Pistols - "Anarchy In The UK"
Vibrators - "Baby Baby"
Teenage Radio Stars - "I Wanna Be Ya Baby"
The Weirdos - "We Got The Neutron Bomb"
The Stranglers - "No More Heroes"
Boomtown Rats - "Lookin' After No.1"
Suicide Squad - "I Hate School"
Lipstick Killers - "Hindu Gods Of Love"
Generation X - "Your Generation"
Siouxsie & The Banshees - "Hong Kong Garden"
Pere Ubu - "Final Solution"
Television - "See No Evil"
Buzz****s - "Harmony In My Head"
Razar - "Task Force"
Blondie - "Rip Her To Shreads"
Sid Vicious - "My Way"

AUSTRALIAN '80S GARAGE ROCK PLAYLIST

The Hard-Ons - All Set To Go - single - 1987
Radio Birdman - Do The Pop - Radios Appear - 1978
Lipstick Killers - Hindu Gods (Of Love) - single - 1979
The Victims - Television Addict - single - 1978
The Hoodoo Gurus - Dig It Up - Triple J Live At The Wireless - 1983
Screaming Tribesmen - Igloo - single - 1983
Sunnyboys - Love To Rule - Sunnyboys EP - 1981
Scientists - Swampland - single - 1982
The Lime Spiders - Beyond The Fringe - Slave Girl single - 1984
The Celibate Rifles - Wild Desire - single - 1984
Radio Birdman - New Race - Radios Appear - 1978
Exploding White Mice - Burning Red - A Nest Of Vipers EP - 1985
The Bamboos - With Which To Love You - single - 1987
The New Christs - Born Out Of Time - single - 1986
The Lime Spiders - Slave Girl - single - 1984
The Stems - Make You Mine - single - 1985
God - My Pal - single - 1988
Beasts Of Bourbon - Psycho - The Axeman's Jazz - 1984
Decline Of The Reptiles - Don't Look Down - Too Much Armour Not Enough Brains EP - 1986
Eastern Dark - Over Now - Long Live The New Flesh EP - 1986
The Passengers - Face With No Name - single - 1979
The Acid Drops - Surfin' Prostitute Beat - single - 1984
Died Pretty - Stoneage Cinderella - single - 1985
The Trilobites - Venus In Leather - single - 1985
The Hard-Ons - Something About You - Dickcheese - 1988
The Wet Taxis - C'mon - single - 1984
The Kryptonics - Trapped Inside - 69 EP - 1989
Minuteman - Voodoo Slaves - single - 1982
The Moffs - Another Day In The Sun - single - 1985
Psychotic Turnbuckles - Albuquerque (Wild Scenes) - Destroy Dull City EP - 1986
Huxton Creepers - The Murderess - single - 1985


I'm sure you'll agree there are some great bands and songs in the 2 lists above..........


Although I was a little too young to see any bands in the 70's I had the pleasure of going along to Thebby Theatre in Adelaide in the early 80's to see a PIL concert with a few mates.............not exactly a punk band themself but led by 'Johnny Rotten' we thought there'd be a chance they would play some old Sex Pistols tracks..........

We rocked up a couple of hours early to enjoy a few drinks before the show and were stunned to see the park on the corner next to Thebby chockers full of punks and a few skinheads mixed in............it was going to be an interesting night...........

The venue was smart enough to ensure there was no seating downstairs - obviously they remembered what happened when they had seats there at a Madness show earlier in the year................Henley Beach Road ended up with a few.......:D

I've no re-collection of the name of the band playing first but will never forget their show..........the lead singer was carried onto the stage in a coffin and jumped up during the guitar intro to the first song wearing a leather face mask zipped up like some extreme mental patients used to wear..........

The punks and skins went wild as the drummer stepped forward and threw minced pigs brains over the crowd.............and for some extra fun kicked a pig's head into the crowd which became the object of the pogo dancers in the first 20 odd rows of people..............suffice to say I have little re-collection of the actual music played but it was certainly a sweaty pit of people at the front with the music full on..............

After a couple more beers between bands we settled down for the PIL show.............Johnny came on at his arrogant best and proceeded to abuse the punks and skins who in typical fashion (respect) spat right back at him.............

They played hits off their recent albums including Flowers Of Romance, Rise, Public Image amongst many others in the first 45 minutes before Johhny threw the mike down in the middle of a song and walked off stage with the band following a few minutes later........

Well the crowd went a little wild thinking the show was over when someone walked up on stage, grabbed the mike and said 'If you pricks don't stop spitting it's the end of the show'........which went down like a lead balloon.............

after about 10 minutes the crowd had settled down a little when the lights went out and the curtain at the back of the stage went up and revealed a cyclone mesh fence with what looked like police officers and a couple of police dogs behind the wire.........

Next minute Johnny and the band were back out on stage and launched into God Save The Queen..........the spitting resumed even heavier than before, the crowd started bouncing as the floor of Thebby shook the hardest I've ever felt........this is what we had come to see............

They then continued to play Pistols songs for the rest of the night including Pretty Vacant, Stepping Stone, EMI, Holidays In The Sun and a few others before ending the show with Anarchy In The UK.........

Sweat pouring off us we exited Thebby and as we walked down the road to the pub where we had parked the car we all commented that it would have been an interesting trip up to Salisbury/Elizabeth on the last train out that night...........


A great concert and something I will never forget..........


So lets hear some of your stories, special albums/songs or anything else you'd like to add about this great era of music..........
...:D

[IAMDASH]

Born (out of time) in 1975 so never got the chance to see most of these bands. I really enjoy Australian stuff thus am really into the Hard-Ons, Rifles, and other bands not mentioned like the Cosmic Psychos.

Not a huge fan of the English punk scene.I was at a club last night where the DJ played a tribute to Joe Strummer which was pretty cool even though I am not a huge Clash fan. I reckon Blondie is pretty under rated.

Anyway it will be interesting to hear from others.........good thread

[Shinboners]

#1 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for Punks
#2 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for Punks
#3 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for Girls
#3 1/2 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for Who Cares!
#4 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for the New Wave!
#5 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for A Bunch of Bleedin' Idiots
#6 Sniffin' Snow And Other Seasonal Habits For Snowmen!
#7 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits For Pinheads and Surfers!
#8 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits For People Who Think It's Hip To Read the "In" Mag
#9 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits And Anything To Cause And Uproar!
#10 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits For Deptford Yobs!
#11 Sniffin' Glue And Other Self-Defence Habits
#12 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits For Around Aug/Sept '77

[Rusty Brookes]

Those lists contain just about every band I love. I'm a huge fan of the Saints, Birdman, the Eastern Dark, the Sunnyboys and the like. A couple I personally would have added to the 70s list would have been the Dictators, the Dead Boys, Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers, Motorhead and the Real Kids. The Aussie list is pretty much there although bands like the Seminal Rats, the White Elephants, Cosmic Psychos, Bored, the Chosen Few and the Zorros could have been added. I suppose some of the "precursor" bands (the Stooges, the MC5, the New York Dolls, Velvet Underground, Blue Oyster Cult, Alice Cooper) could have also been added but that might be a different story altogether.

There are still bands doing this type of stuff around Melbourne and doing it well. Some names off the top of my head: Hoss, the Naked Eye (plug! plug!), the Mystaken, Dung, Hands of Time, the Specimens

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by IAMDASH
Born (out of time) in 1975 so never got the chance to see most of these bands. I really enjoy Australian stuff thus am really into the Hard-Ons, Rifles, and other bands not mentioned like the Cosmic Psychos.

Not a huge fan of the English punk scene.I was at a club last night where the DJ played a tribute to Joe Strummer which was pretty cool even though I am not a huge Clash fan. I reckon Blondie is pretty under rated.

Anyway it will be interesting to hear from others.........good thread

Good to see a reply........I'm hopeful this thread will go on for a while with various peoples experiences about some truly great bands and their music............

I was a little young to enjoy 70's punk at the time but spent plenty of time exploring it in the 80's.........so hence the second song list of Aussie garage music in the 80's was added.........

I highly recommend looking through the J files site - click on the name underlined at the beginning of the first post.


As for the Cosmic Psychos......great band who don't take themselves too seriously which has probably helped them survive for so many years...........who else would release a Best of CD called '15 Years - A Million Beers'

Saw them up here in Darwin a couple of years ago in a small club......great show........I have the song "Thank Your Mother For The Rabbits" regularly playing on the PC........


For those that know nothing about the Psycho's here's a biography of the band I found on the net.......

One of the most notorious Australian pub rock bands, the Cosmic Psychos officially began their journey together in 1985. Living by the rule of thumb that you should drink before you play a show because your friends might drink all of the beer, the Psychos gained a reputation for not caring about money so much as the free alcohol, laughs, and overseas traveling involved with being in a rock band.

Over the course of seven full-length albums, one best-of collection, one EP, 11 singles, and more than five compilation appearances, the group has sang with Pearl Jam's Eddie Vedder, befriended Mudhoney, and supplied beer to Silverchair at Australia's Big Day Out festival.

Bassist Ross Knight was playing in a high school punk band in the late '70s, called Rancid Spam, in Victoria, Australia, located two hours north of Melbourne. In the meantime, guitarist Peter Jones and drummer Bill Walsh were performing together in the Melbourne group Spring Plains with a bassist and vocalist.

After the bass player left in 1982, Walsh and Jones asked their friend Knight for his assistance. Knight and the singer from Rancid Spam had relocated to Melbourne in the early '80s. When they arrived in the city, Walsh was one of the first people who Rancid Spam's singer met at university. The singer introduced Knight to Walsh, and they became fast friends. Knight agreed to join Spring Plains on bass and by 1985, the threesome handed the original singer his walking papers.

After deciding that Knight would take over vocal duties, the group changed its name to the Cosmic Psychos. With the stripped down lineup, the band played their first gig as the Cosmic Psychos at the Stockade pub in Carlonand, Australia, with the Moodists. That same year, Cosmic Psychos recorded their debut EP, Down on the Farm, on a two-track tape machine in their practice space and released it on Australia's Mr. Spaceman Records and Europe's What Goes On label. A live version of the Down on the Farm track "Custom Credit" appeared on a compilation album distributed by European publication Howl! Magazine the following year.

Two years would pass before the Cosmic Psychos would release their first full-length, Cosmic Psychos. Mr. Spaceman released the vinyl version, while Australian label Shagpile had the CD counterpart distributed through Shock Records. A 7" record featuring the song "Lead Me Astray" from the self-titled debut coincided with the full-length release. Lemon Fanzine number 15 featured the band's song "David Lee Roth" on a compilation given away with the zine that same year.

By 1989, Cosmic Psychos saw their second full-length album, Go the Hack, released in the United States on Sub-Pop Records. Prior to Go the Hack, Americans could only purchase Cosmic Psychos' albums as imports. The album saw its Australian release on Survival Records. The band followed Go the Hack with their first live album, Slave to the Crave, in 1990, which acted as a showcase of material from their first EP and two full-length records. Slave to the Crave was taken from a June 1989 performance at Melbourne venue the Palace.

As 1990 set in, Jones vacated the guitar spot. Ross and Walsh asked their friend and self-taught guitarist, Robbie Watts, to join the fold. Watts said yes and the Cosmic Psychos ventured to Wisconsin to record their third full-length release, Blokes You Can Trust, at producer Butch Vig's Smart Studios. Originally, the band was going to produce the album themselves, with Vig only coming in at the end to mix the final product. However, the dichotomy between Vig and the group was so strong that Vig wound up producing as well.

The end result was what Knight called one of their most enjoyable recordings. Blokes You Can Trust was the first record of the band's Amphetamine Reptile contract. The American-based label was owned by Tom Hazelmeyer, whom the band had met while they were in Europe. Hazelmeyer was a drinking buddy of the band, so they figured his label would be the best to release their material stateside, as well as in Europe. Blokes You Can Trust was finally released in 1991, followed by Amphetamine Reptile's combined re-release of Cosmic Psychos' Down on the Farm EP and Cosmic Psychos LP. The Blokes You Can Trust track "Dead Roo" was released as a single in Australia on the Survival imprint and contained the B-side "Can't Come In" from their debut album.

The group conducted a European tour on which they developed an unusual trademark. After a show in Potsdam, Germany, and after seeing many other rock bands take bows after performances, the Cosmic Psychos decided to alter the tradition by pulling down their pants and mooning the unsuspecting audience. The release of the "Dead Roo" single was followed by the Back to School CD on Survival in 1992, which contained a cut from the Cosmic Psychos and Blokes You Can Trust albums, as well as a cover of L7's "Shove." The latter track was a nod to the Seattle girl band, who'd covered a Cosmic Psychos' song on a 7" EP.

Amphetamine Reptile also had the band contribute a track to its Dope, Guns 'n' ****ing in the Streets compilation. 1993 witnessed a rough spot in the Cosmic Psychos' recording career as they released their fifth full-length CD, Palomino Pizza. The disc featured three cover songs of old Australian pub classics from the likes of Billy Thorpe the Aztechs, Buffalo, and Guitar Overdose. The band criticized themselves because they felt that the CD was a half-hearted effort on their part, but they toured in support of the disc nonetheless.

They played shows in the United States with indie superstars Superchunk and loud rock band the Onyas. Later that year, Cosmic Psychos recorded a split 7" with the band Vertigo. The record, released on Hippy Knight, was a tribute to noise rock group Halo of Flies and featured the Cosmic Psychos playing their own rendition of "Garbage Rock."

Throughout 1994, Knight spent time on his farm in Australia recording various song ideas. By the end of that year, he had amassed 40 riffs on one cassette. The Cosmic Psychos rummaged through the material and came up with what critics considered their strongest album to date. Shock Records paid the band to record the new album, titled Self Totalled, and the group spent one thousand dollars on liquor to get them through the week-long session.

Self Totalled finally saw the light of day in 1995. The record was released on Shagpile and distributed through Shock in Australia, while Amphetamine Reptile handled the U.S. and European releases and distribution. A 7" followed the release and featured two tracks from Self Totalled and one unreleased cut. The single was released in the United States on City Slang and in Australia on Shagpile.

The band played a number of gigs in America and ended their tour in Australia. During this brief excursion, the band was asked to open for Pearl Jam in Sydney. The Cosmic Psychos came by recommendation of Mudhoney's Matt Lukin, who suggested to Pearl Jam singer Eddie Vedder that he look the Psychos up when they got there.

The audience of 37,000 wound up booing the Psychos' 45-minute set, and the band responded with their bare-bottomed thanks.

The Psychos rounded out their Self Totalled tour by playing at Australia's Big Day Out festival, which featured the Screaming Trees, Hole, Silverchair, Primal Scream, Luscious Jackson, the Offspring, and Ministry.

Later in the year, the magazine Carbon 14 distributed a compilation featuring an extreme heavy metal song called "B.I.T." from the Cosmic Psychos. The track was previously unavailable on any of the Psychos' albums. At the beginning of 1996, Shagpile released a 7" record featuring the Self Totalled track "Whip Me" along with unplugged renditions of Down on the Farm's "Crazy Woman" and Go the Hack's "Lost Cause." The CD version of the 7" featured the "Whip Me" single, "Crazy Woman," and "Lost Cause," as well as two other unplugged songs.

Prior to the releases, the band had never picked up acoustic instruments to record any of its material. Growing tired of the MTV Unplugged shows at the time, the band figured they'd release their own version poking fun at the program's popularity. Along with producer Lindsay Gravina, the band recorded the tracks with a prerecorded audience at Birdland Studios. To the band's surprise, the acoustic numbers received heavy airplay on a large number of Australia's radio stations. A condensed version of the unplugged session was released in the United States on Man's Ruin Records.

Obsessed with Australian meat pies, the Cosmic Psychos finished their seventh full-length album at the start of 1997 and gave into their fascination by titling the record Oh What a Lovely Pie. Before the actual release, Shagpile began sending out a three-song promotional copy. The full-length version came out that summer on Amphetamine Reptile in the United States and Europe. It contained ten songs dealing with everything from dominatrix girlfriends to serial killers. The release was followed by a 24-date tour of Europe with the Melvins. Following the jaunt, the two bands decided to record a split 7" for Gearhead Records. The 1998 release featured the Cosmic Psychos cover of the Sweet's "Some Girls." Gearhead also included the song on their Runnin' on Fumes: The Gearhead Magazine Singles compilation.

Throughout 1998, the Cosmic Psychos continued to tour in support of Oh What a Lovely Pie. Their Australian and European shows included supporting act the Onyas. The Cosmic Psychos then darted over to the United States, where they gigged with Gaunt, Mudhoney, and Nashville Pussy.

After a three-month break back in Australia, the Cosmic Psychos returned to the United States in July of 1999. The band teamed up with their old friends the Melvins to promote their split 7". By the end of the year, work also began on a Cosmic Psychos' retrospective LP culling tracks from their last 15 years together.

As the year 2000 reared its head, the Cosmic Psychos released 15 Years -- A Million Beers with the help of Dropkick Records. The band had been kicking the idea around for five years. The double album included rare outtakes, B-sides, and material from their previous records. A European tour with supporting act the Mobile Homos was scheduled to celebrate the Cosmic Psychos' anniversary. Although he was still a member of the band, Watts decided to sit the tour out. Knight and Walsh hired the Raunch Hands' guitarist Mike Mariconda to play the gigs.

~ Stephen Howell, All Music Guide

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Rusty Brookes
Those lists contain just about every band I love. I'm a huge fan of the Saints, Birdman, the Eastern Dark, the Sunnyboys and the like. A couple I personally would have added to the 70s list would have been the Dictators, the Dead Boys, Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers, Motorhead and the Real Kids. The Aussie list is pretty much there although bands like the Seminal Rats, the White Elephants, Cosmic Psychos, Bored, the Chosen Few and the Zorros could have been added. I suppose some of the "precursor" bands (the Stooges, the MC5, the New York Dolls, Velvet Underground, Blue Oyster Cult, Alice Cooper) could have also been added but that might be a different story altogether.

There are still bands doing this type of stuff around Melbourne and doing it well. Some names off the top of my head: Hoss, the Naked Eye (plug! plug!), the Mystaken, Dung, Hands of Time, the Specimens

So any experiences you'd like to share..........concerts, favourite songs albums, anythng........

I'm sure we can all learn a thing or two and find some new bands to listen to compared to the crap they call punk music these days............

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Shinboners
#1 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for Punks
#2 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for Punks
#3 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for Girls
#3 1/2 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for Who Cares!
#4 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for the New Wave!
#5 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits for A Bunch of Bleedin' Idiots
#6 Sniffin' Snow And Other Seasonal Habits For Snowmen!
#7 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits For Pinheads and Surfers!
#8 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits For People Who Think It's Hip To Read the "In" Mag
#9 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits And Anything To Cause And Uproar!
#10 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits For Deptford Yobs!
#11 Sniffin' Glue And Other Self-Defence Habits
#12 Sniffin' Glue And Other Rock 'n' Roll Habits For Around Aug/Sept '77

I'm gathering from what I find this was a fanzine and has now been put together into a book...........

'Sniffin' Glue - The Essential Punk Accessory' by Mark Perry

I may be sounding dramatic, but I wanna go out and hear the sounds that I like every night. I wanna have to choose what gig to go to. We need something happening daily. If we don't get it that way we can forget the whole thing right now." --- Mark Perry was a disillusioned bank clerk from Deptford, South East London, when he wrote those feisty words.

He was also singlehandedly writing and producing a third issue of the seminal punk fanzine Sniffin' Glue, at the time proclaimed to be the "nastiest, healthiest and funniest piece of press in the history of rock'n'roll, and other rock'n'roll habits" by the NME. The title, coined from equal parts Lenny Bruce and The Ramones, ran for a mere twelve months, influencing an entire generation and spawing a hundred imitations.

During its brief existence Sniffin' Glue brilliantly chronicled the birth, rise and demise of punk rock in the UK. Starting with a print run of a mere 50 copies, by Issue 3 the circulation was way into the thousands and already Mark P was declaring its existence too successful, and in true punk spirit encouraged his readers to rip up their copies. As Mark wrote, "I didn't write it for people to read. I wrote it because it was easy to write." ---

Joined in the later issues by young co-writer Danny Baker, sales started to exceed expectations, but Mark P was eager to avoid accusations of becoming part of the established rock press. By Issue 12 he had called it a day, confident to move on in the secure knowledge that Sniffin' Glue had provided a springboard for his own musical aspirations as leader of Alternative TV, while in turn paving the way for Danny's journalistic intentions. ---

Sniffin' Glue's integral part in rock music's colourful history is undisputed and like all good musical traditions, bands and trends alike, has just made a comeback... this time in the form of a bloody great book. Thank you very much! (Terry Rawlings, Editor)


Sounds like a great book and even more amazing fanzine...........the search begins........:D

[Leaping Lindner]

I was really pleased to see "Burning Red" by the Mice of the OZ list. This is my favourite Mice track followed very closely by "Fear(late at night)". I like all that list but would like to add "True Love" by the Marching Girls as an OZ garage classic of the 80's. As far as I can work out only ever available on the long deleted hard to find "Dogs In Space" Soundtrack and the even longer deleted and harder to find Au-Go-Go 45. I couldn't believe it when "Do the Pop" was released and then Raven did a similiar compiliation which practically mirrored it. Don't get me wrong both fantastic compiliations but I was hoping that one or the other would have had "True Love" on it. Also a couple of Adelaide tracks I'd add would be "Don't talk of love" and "Sandra" by the Screaming Believers "Baby you flirt" by the Units and "Ten Years On" by the Dagoes. "Battlesick" by The Mark of Cain would be in the mix as well I just don't know if Jon would like to called a "Garage" band.:D

To get the concert/gig ball rolling I'd have to say some of my fondest memories of gigs revolve around a sweaty,stuffy Union Hotel on a Saturday Night in the early 80's drinking $1 cans of west end and watching "The Screaming Believers/The Shreds","The Dagoes","The Units" and/or "The Urban Guerillas" .The crowds were weird as most Adelaide punk music lovers tended to dress like suburban bogans in those days, and you also got a few 'meathead' sports stars types in moleskins with a smattering of skinheads and Duran Duran lookalike/wannabes.Now I AM showing my age:D

[dreamkillers]

Was just doing a search on Marching Girls when I came across this site......

inner city sounds - indie alternative punk rock Australian Music. (http://www.innercitysound.com.au)

For people who were there, somewhere between 1975 and 1984, or those who have rediscovered this era of great music. This site contains great Australian indie/alternative vinyl that was either financed by the bands themselves or by some of the ground breaking, risk taking small record businesses of this time.

"Inner City Sound describes the years 1976-1981 of punk/post-punk music in Australia. The Inner City Sound is a distinct movement towards an Australian rock of its own invention and identity." Clinton Walker, from his book of the same name, published by Wild & Woolley Pty Ltd 1982.


The site has a trade section with plenty of hard to get music from this great era..............it also mentions they are looking to start up an Internet Radio station in the near future..........

Internet Radio commencing soon is 'Inner City Sound', a new program featuring all Australian independent & alternative music released between 1975 and 1984. This program comprises all vinyl indie/alternative 7'', 12'' eps, lps and cassettes. Nearly all of this music has not been re-issued onto CD, and may never be.

There will be specials featuring new and current CD re-issues.


Check it out.......I really hope they get this station up and running as I know I'll be tuned in all day...........:D

[Leaping Lindner]

Well done, GREAT find!!!!!!!!!
That site will be priceless as you will NEVER see 50% of that stuff on commercially available CDS.
The Adelaide Innocents had a single out on EMI custom "Let's get pi$$ed" and Johhny Cav went onto to play in The Screaming Believers .

[Wally]

Good thread.

Bands like The Saints and Radio Birdman have never got the recognition they deserve in this country, it really is amazing the number of people who've "never heard of" these fine bands. Largely ignored by the 'mainstream', The Saints' debut album (I'm) Stranded is an Australian classic. Stealing a line from the album's sleevenotes: Sir Bob Geldof once obsereved: "Rock music of the 70's was changed by three bands - The Sex Pistols, The Ramones and The Saints". Hard to disagree.

One of my personal favorite bands, The Celibate Rifles are another example of a great Aussie act generally, unrecognised. Caught 'em live a couple years back, and they still kick some serious butt. The Cosmic Pyschos are also great fun live, apart from their music, their sense of humor and ability to laugh at themselves is infectious.


------------------------------------------------------------
EFC: We Hate You Too

[Wally]

Originally posted by Rusty Brookes
Those lists contain just about every band I love. I'm a huge fan of the Saints, Birdman, the Eastern Dark, the Sunnyboys and the like. A couple I personally would have added to the 70s list would have been the Dictators, the Dead Boys, Johnny Thunders and the Heartbreakers, Motorhead and the Real Kids. The Aussie list is pretty much there although bands like the Seminal Rats, the White Elephants, Cosmic Psychos, Bored, the Chosen Few and the Zorros could have been added. I suppose some of the "precursor" bands (the Stooges, the MC5, the New York Dolls, Velvet Underground, Blue Oyster Cult, Alice Cooper) could have also been added but that might be a different story altogether.

There are still bands doing this type of stuff around Melbourne and doing it well. Some names off the top of my head: Hoss, the Naked Eye (plug! plug!), the Mystaken, Dung, Hands of Time, the Specimens


Rusty,

I picked up a Dictators album a few weeks back, largely on the back of what you've said about 'em in many of your posts. The album is a cracker, however, the sleevenotes don't give much away about the band. I know they've been around a few years, but , can yer giz some more info on 'em?

Cheers.


-------------------------------------------------------------
EFC: We Hate You Too

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
... To get the concert/gig ball rolling I'd have to say some of my fondest memories of gigs revolve around a sweaty,stuffy Union Hotel on a Saturday Night in the early 80's drinking $1 cans of west end and watching "The Screaming Believers/The Shreds","The Dagoes","The Units" and/or "The Urban Guerillas" .The crowds were weird as most Adelaide punk music lovers tended to dress like suburban bogans in those days, and you also got a few 'meathead' sports stars types in moleskins with a smattering of skinheads and Duran Duran lookalike/wannabes.Now I AM showing my age:D

YOUR age?

I was around the same scene and I was four or five years older than everyone else.

Would you believe, the Urban Guerillas still exist. They moved to Sydney about the same time as my band, (The Spell ... remember them?) Amazingly I found an Urban Guerillas song on mp3.com.au and sent an email to Ken Stewart, who sent me their 1995 album, "Just A Lifetime" and their more recent single, "Big Brother". I think Ken is the only original member. They're still based in Sydney.

[AlfAndrews]

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
.... The Adelaide Innocents had a single out on EMI custom "Let's get pi$$ed" and Johhny Cav went onto to play in The Screaming Believers .

"Let's Get ****ed again ... like we did last summer" ... classic.

They also had a song called "Think About Tomorrow Tomorrow".

They later lobbed in Sydney and changed their name to The Noise. Arch la Rizza went on to play in The Saints.

[knuckles]

I remember the Sunnyboys and had paint flung at me in art class at school for suggesting they were better than Mi-Sex. I liked them b/c they were cool. Their music was great. Not sure what you mean by corporate, but that band in particular could have been much bigger with corporate help.

I was also a fan of Haircut 100. Their not punk or garage, but I always like to bring them up as I thought they should have been huge for longer and they were unique :D ......record deal probs killed them off. :mad:

[mace007]

<teenybopper>

Why aren't Blink 182 on here??? :confused:

</teenybopper>

[Rusty Brookes]

Originally posted by Wally
Rusty,

I picked up a Dictators album a few weeks back, largely on the back of what you've said about 'em in many of your posts. The album is a cracker, however, the sleevenotes don't give much away about the band. I know they've been around a few years, but , can yer giz some more info on 'em?

Cheers.


-------------------------------------------------------------
EFC: We Hate You Too

Ahh, one of my favourite topics. The Dictators formed in New York early 1974. Heavily influenced by the MC5, the Stooges, the Who, the Beach Boys, Chocolate Watch Band and Black Sabbath (how's that for a mix) they recorded one of the first true punk albums in 1975, Go Girl Crazy. The Ramones were huge fans of the Dictators and they did colloborate together later in the 80s. The Dictators tended to be out of sync with the arty side of New York Punk but found steadfast allies in the "f*ck art, let's rock" side of things (The Ramones, The Heartbreakers, The Dead Boys). Commercial success eluded the 'tators as their management/producers Sandy Pearlman and Murray Krugman tended to concentrate on their mega selling crypto metal wierdo group Blue Oyster Cult (incidently one of my all time favourite bands). They were considered too metal for the punk crowd and too punk for the metal crowd. They released three albums in the 70s: "Go Girl Crazy", "Manifest Destiny" and "Blood Brothers". The band stopped playing but did get together on occasions to play live gigs one of which is documented on the CD, "F*ck em if they can't take a joke". The band got together in 2001 to record the fantastic "DFFD-New York, New York" album. Live reviews have gushed about how great the band are (having seen them this year I can attest to their greatness). The band are proudly Jewish and one of the funniest lyrically. Lead singer Handsome **** Manitoba (the self described King of Men) is one of the best front men since Iggy Pop or Rob Tyner. The band produced members of many groups including Manowar, Twisted Sister, Shakin Street and the Fleshtones. The band are still going strong today when all of their contemparies have passed by the wayside. The Dicatators are true rock n roll survivors.

[Wally]

Ta Rusty,

"DFFD - New York, New York" is the album i picked up. Definitely on the lookout for anything else i can find of this great group.


-------------------------------------------------------------
EFC: We Hate You Too

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by knuckles
I remember the Sunnyboys and had paint flung at me in art class at school for suggesting they were better than Mi-Sex. I liked them b/c they were cool. Their music was great. Not sure what you mean by corporate, but that band in particular could have been much bigger with corporate help.

I was also a fan of Haircut 100. Their not punk or garage, but I always like to bring them up as I thought they should have been huge for longer and they were unique :D ......record deal probs killed them off. :mad:

Your post basically covers what I meant by corporate (or pre corporate to be precise) punk and garage music..........bands that usually didn't get the support or airplay they deserved.

The Sunnyboys were a great band.........:D

I know from my own experiences growing up in Adelaide and regularly seeing bands that used to blow me away yet rarely (if at all) were heard of on commercial radio - thank god for the original MMM and 5UV.

From the list of bands at the 'inner sounds' site not too many made it 'commercially' yet at the same time provided plenty of enjoyment to those that followed the live music scene.......

Australian independent / alternative music library from 1975 to 1984.

Sound recordings Wrom:
AC/DC, Agents, Allniters, Apartments, Assassins, Bastinados, Birthday Party, Black Chrome, Bleeding Hearts, Bodysnatchers, Box Of Fish, Boys Next Door, Cartoons, Nick Cave, Celibate Rifles, Church, Club Of Rome, Crackajacks, Credits, Crime & the City Solution, Dagoes, Dead Can Dance, Derek & the Wrecks, Died Pretty, Division 4, Do Re Mi, Dorian Gray, Drop Bears, Dynamic Hepnotics, 88's, The End, Equal Local, The Eyes, Fast Cars, Flaming Hands, Flowers, Flying Calvittos, 4 Gods, Frontier Scouts, Fun Things, Go-Betweens, Goats, Helicopters, Henchmen, Hitmen, Hoi Polloi, Hoodoo Gurus, Hugo Klang, Humans, Hunters & Collectors, Infidels, INXS, Johnny Demon & the Devils, Just Urbain, Paul Kelly, Kelpies, Kicks, La Femme, Last Words, Laughing Clowns, Leftovers, Lighthouse Keepers, Lime Spiders, Lipstick Killers, Little Murders, Machinations, Madroom, The Makers Of The Dead Travel Fast, Manikins, Marching Girls, Mansons, Mental As Anything, Metronomes, Midnight Oil, Minuteman, Models, Moodists, Mystery Of 6's, Nasty Nigel & the Teenage Hellcats, Naught Rhythms, Nauts, New Christs, New Race, News, Numbers, Nuvo Bloc, Orphans, Outline, Paradox, Particles, The Passengers, Pel Mel, Angie Pepper, Perdition, Plays With Marionettes, Popular Mechanics, Positive Hatred, Press, Primitive Calculators, Products, Progression Cult, Proles, Public Execution, Quick & The Dead, Radio Birdman, Razor Gang, Relatives, Riptides, Rockets, Rocks, Rejex, Sacred Cowboys, Saints, Sardine v, Scapa Flow, Scattered Order, Scientists, Screaming Tribesmen, Section Urbain, Sekret Sekret, Seems Twice, Sekret Sekret, Severed Heads, Sharks, Sheiks, Shy Impostors, Singles, Skunks, Skyhooks, Slug****ers, Clint Small, Soggy Porridge, SPK, Spare Change, Split Enz, Sports, Sputniks, Strange Tenants, Sunday Painters, Sunnyboys, Super K, Surfside 6, Survivors, Systematics, Tactics, Tame Omearas, Tch Tch Tch, Thorburn, Thought Criminals, Toy Love, Trans 262, Triffids, Tuff Monks, TV Jones, Two Way Garden, Units, Upsets, Vacant Lot, Vacant Rooms, Via Venuto, Victims, Visitors, Voigt/465, Henry Vyhnal, Dave Warner's From the Suburbs, Wet Taxis, Whirlywirld, Wild West, Wreckery, X, Xero, XL Capris, X-ray-Z, Young Identities, Young Modern, Z-Cars, Zorros.


You'll also see they are after information on bands in this era for a poposed CD compilation............

Dig it Up - Australian Power Pop 1978-90

As it's name suggests'Dig It Up' is a proposed double CD anthology that highlights the power pop gems released by Australian bands during the post punk, new wave period of the late seventies, right up until the end of the eighties.

The two Australian independent labels behind this project are Zip Records and Tomboy Records. Both labels are run by individuals who have long standing involvements in the Australian independent scene, with both labels having been extremely active in the last 12 months. Zip Records in particular has released 4 full length albums and 3 EPs of local power pop acts in the last 12 months, and Tomboy Records was involved in the release of the companion CD to the Lost Weekend Pop Festival held last October in Sydney.

As to why 'Dig It Up' is being compiled? The answer is simple, there were so many astonishing records released by Australian bands, high on youth and buzzing with energy around this time that have all but disappeared from Australiaís musical landscape. Itís high time that the record was set straight!

There is a growing interest amongst rock and roll fans worldwide in the music that was unleashed during the late 70ís punk and new wave period. Unlike elsewhere however, in Australia the good times continued well into the 80s, where a particular tough, rock and roll sound developed. In fact, this year has seen the release of two excellent compilations by Shock and Raven Records respectively that captured the punk and garage side of the scene.

With the 'Dig It Up' compilation we intend to highlight the power pop side to this important Australian rock and roll explosion. The proposed double CD format gives us plenty of scope to include both the celebrated bands of the era like 'The Scientists', 'Hoodoo Gurus', 'The Riptides' & 'Little Murders' along with the acts such as 'Young Modern', 'The Manikins' and 'The Numbers' who sadly seem to have disappeared from the the musical landscape and into the ether. The compilation will also have an companying booklet featuring extensive liner notes and as many archival photographs as we can cram in.

As you can tell, both label's are excited by the prospect of documenting and archiving an important part of Australia's rock and roll heritage. We already have access to a considerable amount of material from this era, but there is still many artists and recordings that we are trying to locate.

If you've received this letter, it's because we hope that you'll be interested in this project enough to lend a hand with information, contacts, press clippings, photos or even old recordings.

Digital technology can do wonders with old recordings, and Screensound Australia (the old National Film and Sound Archives in Canberra) has offered to archive and restore any old master tapes or rare vinyl from that period.

We are interested in hearing from anybody who was either in or has infomation of the following bands, or any bands that have slipped through even our memories that would be suitable!

Young Modern (Adelaide), Innocents (Adelaide, not the Tassie ones), Manikins (Perth), The Boys (Perth), Silent Type (Perth), Rockets (Perth), The Numbers (Sydney), The Singles (Sydney), British Jets (Sydney), Riptides (Brisbane), Marching Girls (Melbourne), Leftovers (Bendigo/Melbourne), Artic Circles (Melbourne), Inner Sleeves (Melbourne), The Zimmerman (Melbourne), The Clones (Sydney). Serious Young Insects (Melbourne). Cracked Jaffas (Melbourne). The Tripps (Sydney), The Works.

We've already received comfirmation of involvement from the following bands.

Chevelles (Perth), Spliffs (Brisbane), Happy Hate Me Nots (Sydney), Marigolds (Perth),Stems (Perth), Someloves (Perth), Rainyard (Perth), Summer Suns (Perth), Bo-Wevils (Melbourne), Trilobites (Sydney), Beathoven (Tas), Kryptonics (Perth), Little Murders (Melbourne), Neptunes (Perth).


Please contact us:

Ian Underwood (Tomboy Records)
Email: mediaforge@optushome.com.au
www.tomboyrecords.com.au

David Hughes-Owen (Zip Records)
Email: zip@wiredcity.com.au
www.ziprecords.com



The name Division 4 from the above list brings back lots of memories and in particular many Christmas eve's spent at the Findon Hotel or Top of Taps in Adelaide where they played many shows. Basically a fun cover band who took the mickey out of many songs - all members were involved in other bands around the place except the lead singer who was a teacher at the time.

Guitarist/Song Writer Stuart Day went on to play for a few radio friendly bands like FAB, Spank You Very Much and many others (pop, rock, funk, punk, folk, blues and reggae) and is still involved in various projects today..........

My favourite song of theirs was a version of the Brady Bunch theme called 'A Bunch of Cu***' - just replace 'The Brady Bunch' with these words in the chorus below..........

That's the way we became the Brady Bunch,
The Brady Bunch.
That's the way we became the Brady Bunch.


A couple of other unique (ie. not top 40 crap) cover bands who also did a few originals that I enjoyed over the years were.........

Almost Human - from where Rob Riley (Rose Tattoo and The Gems) emerged. I was too young to see them when they first came out but they reformed a few times over the years to play shows at the Ko Klub in the city............

Waldo's Wallpaper Band - a 3 piece band (probably should have been 2 piece as at times the bass guitarist appeared to be just a prop) I used to stumble across in the very early hours of the morning in the front bar of the old Century Hotel in Hindley St..........can still remember the packed bar screaming the word's to 'Stepping Stone'.............


Some great posts coming in now..........:D

[McAlmanac]

Saw Division 4 at the Findon a number of times as well. Amusing.

A mate of mine was in a band that supported Almost Human once at the Findon. My ears nearly bled. Not sure they were that good - seemed a little Spinal Tap.

Out of that list, The Triffids were my favourite. Pity it was still the beer barn era. A couple of others I saw were Lime Spiders and Do Re Mi. Just after that era was another favourite of mine, Huxton Creepers.

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by McAlmanac
Saw Division 4 at the Findon a number of times as well. Amusing.

A mate of mine was in a band that supported Almost Human once at the Findon. My ears nearly bled. Not sure they were that good - seemed a little Spinal Tap.

Out of that list, The Triffids were my favourite. Pity it was still the beer barn era. A couple of others I saw were Lime Spiders and Do Re Mi. Just after that era was another favourite of mine, Huxton Creepers.

Used to love the Findon back in the old days - it helped being a 5 min walk home past Pizza Villa on the way............

Never saw Almost Human the first time round but they played a bit when 'Rockin' Rob Riley and The Gems were playing at places like the Ko Klub and Lockleys Hotel in the late 80's and early 90's...........the Spinal Tap reference is very apt from what I saw of them...........:D

As for Beer Barns.........sounds like a great description of the Bridgeway Hotel back then.........

[Jim Boy]

Ahhh, the memories. Perhaps just a little bit before my time, but for ten years from the saints there seemed to be a golden age in Aussie music, where bands were simply left to do what they want. Especially remember Shower scene from Psychos, Venom P Stinger, any Fred Negro band.

Which reminds me, when I first heard the Hives, I thought it was some old Saints track that I had forgotten.

Get to hear some of these bands from time to time still on RRR and if that site mentioned earlier gets going, that would be fantastic.

[Dipper]

I've really enjoyed this thread particularly the first post, I didn't even know you got skinheads in Australia:D

As a lot of the emphasis is on Australian music & dreamkillers in particular is from Adelaide i wondered if anyone remembers Adelaide band Sin Dog Jelly Roll & if so could you give me your opinions, they were about in the mid 90s.

The reason that I ask is that I met the bass player a couple of years ago here in London & we've become good mates, he's back in Adelaide now & I'm interested in what his band was like(they don't exist anymore-I think they imploded).

[Rusty Brookes]

A good friend of mine (guitarist in my band Naked Eye-man, I've got some good plugs in this thread) is putting together a CD-Rom-Compilation called Alternative Animals. Its focus is Australian Independent Music from 1976-1980. Featured bands include the Saints, Radio Birdman, Boys Next Door, the Scientists, the Sunnyboys, Lipstick Killers, Leftovers. He has interviewed members of these bands including some of the more well known figures (Nick Cave, Dave Faulkner, Ed Keupper etc), as well as some of the true underground bands (Chosen Few, Mannikans). The CD-rom is going to include live footage of the bands, interviews and film clips. It will also come with an audio CD of previously unreleased material. Amazingly, he received some government funding to get the project off the ground.

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/02/1030953434428.html

[dreamkillers]

Nothing wrong with some plugs for a band........any MP3's we can download to see what we think of your band..........

Certainly sounds like a must have CD-Rom for people that grew up in that era or want to reflect on one of the great times of the live music scene in Australia.........


For those that are lazy I've posted the full article below........

The star who Nicked Australia's punk legacy (http://www.theage.com.au/articles/2002/09/02/1030953434428.html)

By Lucinda Strahan - September 3 2002

Somebody's grandmother dressed in a lemon-yellow cardigan sits quietly sipping a cup of tea in the Mornington Peninsula Regional Gallery cafeteria, watching sallow-eyed Nick Cave circa 1997, at his piano explaining, cigar in hand, to the makers of the Dutch documentary, The Good Son, "love is a very sacred thing I long for, and yearn for".

In the gallery's entrance foyer, a chronology of band posters neatly traces Cave's career from The Boys Next Door to the Boatman's Call. A fortysomething dad with a toddler on his hip peers into a glass cabinet where one of Cave's personal notebooks lies open, lyrics scrawled on one page and a photo of Cave on stage on the other, with "paris" scribbled above it, is stamped in German "Okt 89".

"You can be criticised for canonising a person by doing an exhibition on them," says Rodney James, curator of Mornington Peninsula Regional Gallery's recent exhibition Nick Cave - The Good Son.

"People say, 'why Nick, why not one of the other guys?' and it's obvious - because you just wouldn't get all this stuff with one of the other guys."

Like the Sex Pistols stealing punk from the New York underground by splashing it across newspapers around the world, Melbourne's punk legacy has been largely pinned on Cave. By the time Nick Cave and the Birthday Party had left Melbourne for London in 1979, the scene that propelled them had been buzzing for at least two years. Places such as The Tiger Lounge in Richmond, St Kilda's Bananas, and the Crystal Ballroom, which opened in 1978 were at the centre of a thriving scene.


"I think we quickly had our own thing," says Scott Anderson, writer and co-producer of Alternative Animals, an interactive documentary on Australian punk from 1976 to 1979.

"With Nick, because he's huge, people are trying to equate that back to 1978, and saying he is so incredibly important because of what he is now.

My documentary is about the scene and, I mean, he was in it, but he didn't create it."

Anderson began making Alternative Animals in 1999 after reading Please Kill Me, which traces the history of the New York punk scene through hundreds of interviews.

Inspired by the way the book cut through the myth surrounding the period's history, Anderson decided to make an Australian version and release it on CD-ROM. It will be available at record stores in early 2003.

"There just seemed to be a lot of myth-making going on, more and more and it was getting ridiculous," he says. "I just talked to at least one person from each band and got it from the horse's mouth."

For the Melbourne chapter of Anderson's project, which showed at the Melbourne International Film Festival and will be included in next year's festival as a linear documentary, he tracked down former members of a multitude of bands.

Jarryl Wirth from seminal act the Babeez and later News, describes Melbourne's first culture-jam, where the band publicised their first "meeting" and then turned up to play to a bunch of confused activists.

Jeff Rule, a PBS-FM announcer, describes his time as manager of The Negatives, one of Michael Gudinski's pre-Mushroom, Suicide label acts. "It was a loose term," he says. "The first thing the Negs did when they asked me to be their manager was give me a T-shirt saying 'the Negatives manager sucks'."

Would-be-punks Teenage Radio Stars, featuring a young Sean Kelly and James Freud (later The Models), is profiled through live photographs and archival footage features an interview with a very young Cave and Roland Howard.

Also interviewed are Ian Cunningham, bass player for The Chosen Few, Shane Shane from "real punks" La Femme, Bohdan from JAB, and Tch Tch Tch's Philip Brophy.

"Everyone at the punk concerts, at the first pathetic gigs of different kinds of bands and stuff, we were all arty-farts," Brophy says in the documentary. "We weren't great rebels of anything. Some people might have called The Boys Next Door punk, but to me they were just art-school students."

Chris McAuliffe, director of the Ian Potter Museum of Contemporary Art, coins the atmosphere in Melbourne during the punk years as a certain "Melbourne mood" that has become a distinctive part of local culture.

"I think the bands were very style-conscious, but equally there was an element of self-mockery in there as well. So they were prepared to be quite pretentious, but equally prepared to deflate that a little and I think that's a very distinctive Melbourne kind of irony. To declare your belief in something and then undercut it at the same time."

The Australian punk movement was also significant internationally, McAuliffe says, pointing out many recent lists of top punk records, commemorating the Sex Pistols' 25th anniversary, list Stranded, by Brisbane band The Saints.

"It is important to remember globally, the significance of punk was how local it was," he says. "You didn't talk about English punk, you talked about the London scene, the Manchester scene, the Leeds scene and the same in Australia. Melbourne punk was different from Sydney punk, which was very different from Brisbane and Adelaide punk. Part of it was just this breaking it down into local cultures rather than national cultures. In a perverse way, that's where Australian punk joined the rest of the world, by being so determinedly local."

Alternative Animals will be shown at next year's Melbourne International Film Festival.



Let us know when it's released as I doubt it will make it to the music shops up here.........

[Leaping Lindner]

Originally posted by AlfAndrews
YOUR age?

I was around the same scene and I was four or five years older than everyone else.

Would you believe, the Urban Guerillas still exist. They moved to Sydney about the same time as my band, (The Spell ... remember them?) Amazingly I found an Urban Guerillas song on mp3.com.au and sent an email to Ken Stewart, who sent me their 1995 album, "Just A Lifetime" and their more recent single, "Big Brother". I think Ken is the only original member. They're still based in Sydney.

So you were one of those 'old' guys in their mid-late 20's we use to make fun of! To quote Beavis and Butthead "huh huh they're old huh huh";)
Seriously Alf I do remember The Spell but to be honest not 'that' well. Were you guys ever on a compilation album? What were your best known songs? I found your photo in "Undergorund in the city of churches"(nice school blazer by the way). I remember Mick in the Primevils whose album "Chicken factory" I have lying around somewhere("Saw my name" is a great song).
I can't believe Ken is still at it. That's good to hear. He was always a really nice bloke and always had time for a chat.I wonder if he is still a "Who" freak?

[Leaping Lindner]

Originally posted by dreamkillers
Used to love the Findon back in the old days - it helped being a 5 min walk home past Pizza Villa on the way............

Never saw Almost Human the first time round but they played a bit when 'Rockin' Rob Riley and The Gems were playing at places like the Ko Klub and Lockleys Hotel in the late 80's and early 90's...........the Spinal Tap reference is very apt from what I saw of them...........:D

As for Beer Barns.........sounds like a great description of the Bridgeway Hotel back then.........

I saw V Spy V Spy at the Findon promoting AO Mod TV vers. Great gig,good venue,"Interesting" clientele.
"Pizza Villa" use to make the best Pizzas in Adelaide(well they did in 1985).

..............Bridgeway....(shudder)............nuff said!

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
I saw V Spy V Spy at the Findon promoting AO Mod TV vers. Great gig,good venue,"Interesting" clientele.
"Pizza Villa" use to make the best Pizzas in Adelaide(well they did in 1985).

..............Bridgeway....(shudder)............nuff said!

The Spys should have had a Midnight Oil type crowd going from my memories - they used to always support them at Memorial Drive. I actually saw them at The Venue in Hindley St in the mid 90's many years after I thought they'd given the game away.........then found the CD Fossil that they released in 1994.

Was that after the 'renovations' at the Findon as I sure don't remember them playing in the old band room............I must have been working the country at the time as I would have been there if I was in Adelaide..........

First heard them when I did a brief stint working up at Woomera in the mid 80's.........heard the song One Of A Kind at a party I went to and went out and bought the EP 'Meet Us Inside' and been a fan ever since...........

http://www.ozwebart.com.au/spy/gifs/ekmeetus.GIF

One of a kind
Where are we going?
Voice of the people
Mugshot
C.E.S. Limbo


Love to know what happened to them..........


I'd agree about Pizza Villa.............not sure about these days since they shifted to Crittenden Road..........but then I haven't tried them in quite a long while......... :D

[dreamkillers]

Looks like they are getting together again.........

Brazilian Tour Dates
The 2003 Brazil tour is ON! January is the month - more details when they're available.

Australian Tour Dates
Sydney Shows for December
Friday Dec 20th - Crest Hotel Sylvania
Saturday Dec 21st - Commercial Hotel Parramatta
SPECIAL GIG MENTION - Sunday Dec 22nd - Railway Hotel - HORNSBY (sorry - E) Nick Barker with The Drug Grannies (wink wink, nudge nudge)

Feb / March 2003 will see Spy V Spy touring major cities.

Hope that includes a trip up to Darwin..........


and found this interesting article at their website Spy v. Spy - Australian Website (http://www.ozwebart.com.au/spy/map.htm)

http://www.ozwebart.com.au/spy/gifs/oilseggs.GIF

A little off from the theme of this thread but certainly another good Aussie band - could possibly come under the garage scene to qualify here........:D

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by DIPPER
I've really enjoyed this thread particularly the first post, I didn't even know you got skinheads in Australia:D

As a lot of the emphasis is on Australian music & dreamkillers in particular is from Adelaide i wondered if anyone remembers Adelaide band Sin Dog Jelly Roll & if so could you give me your opinions, they were about in the mid 90s.

The reason that I ask is that I met the bass player a couple of years ago here in London & we've become good mates, he's back in Adelaide now & I'm interested in what his band was like(they don't exist anymore-I think they imploded).

Glad your enjoying the thread..........hope it goes for a lot longer as people add their experiences to it.

It was certainly the most interesting concert I've seen in relation to a crowd and certainly the complete opposite of what I saw Pink Floyd at Thebby Oval a few years later.

I do remember the name Sing Dog Jelly but not sure if I actually saw them unless they were supporting someone else at one of our pubs around town. Any idea of what years they were playing and possible venues.

How long have you been in London and have you any experiences to add on some of our bands from this era over there. A fair few of our bands from this era based themselves in England and Europe (mainly Germany from what I can recall) for a number of years.

Cheers

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
I found your photo in "Underground in the city of churches"(nice school blazer by the way).

http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/prodimg/ruitcoc0001.JPG

Sounds like an interesting book from what I could find on it on the net - "Written by Tim Kelton and published (as an A4 sized book) by Wakefield Press in 1986 it overviews the careers of four bands on Adelaide label Greasy Pop Records - Exploding White Mice, July 14th, Screaming Believers and Spikes - along with brief mentions of associated band.

That and many other interesting books about Australia's music scene, bands and record labels amongst other things I found at a site that has the book for sale...........AUSTRALIAN MUSIC BOOKS (http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/books.htm)


I can see this thread making a serious dent in a few pay packets next year.........but it will be worth it...........:D

[dreamkillers]

Another interesting site I stumbled across today..........

Noise For Heroes and NKVD Records (http://www.nkvdrecords.com/index.htm)

It's a US based site but they have plenty of interesting articles about bands from this time.........I've pasted a few small selections but recommend having a look throughout the whole site.

100 Top 70s Punk 45s
This article originally appeared in NFH #20.

It seems lately that there's been a growing trend among those who like independent rock and roll to consider the punk and new wave bands of 1976 to 1979 as unhip or irrelevant. At the same time, there's been a new acceptance of a lot of the bands of the early 70s that used to be classified as the corporate dinosaurs of rock and roll. All I can say is that the people who think this way must have not been paying any attention to music at the time to think this way. Those punk bands of the late 70s saved us from the total death of rock and roll, and without them there would be no independents at all today. There would be no choices except what the major labels chose to let you hear, and that's a pretty bleak picture when you consider that what they release now is even more useless than it was in 1976.

The only possible reason I can think of that people dismiss the value of those early punk bands is that they blame them for the fact that the promise of punk was never fulfilled and the anticipated revolution in rock and roll that punk was supposed to lead never materialized on a commercial scale. But at least the punks tried; nobody else even went that far. So if some of the anthemic lyrics sound a little silly now, that's only because of historical perspective. And that still leaves the average punk song with ten times as much to say as your early 70s sludge rock Zep imitators.

The basic unit of punk was the single. The best bands put out plenty of lps as well, but there were a whole lot more little bands that only released singles. A lot of the singles were on major labels, a surprising fact given today's climate where the majors hardly ever release singles by anybody. In the US, though, the best singles were generally on independents; the majors' approach was to release singles to hype lps, and they generally chose the safest, quietest song from a given lp to promote a band. In the UK, the single still held a fair amount of stock and lots of good stuff was out on majors. There were a hell of a lot more British singles than in the US, so a lot of great American bands aren't represented here and there are a lot more British bands. But the British bands probably were better at the time, too. They had more going for them; a more cohesive scene, better press, more venues, and more willing audiences. Wonder what happened?

Since a number of people have written me asking that I give some information on early punk bands, I thought it might be fun to list a sort of minimal singles collection of punk bands from 1976 to 1979. This isn't meant to be a "best of" list; otherwise there'd be piles more singles by the top flight bands like the Buzz****s, Damned, Pistols or Jam. It's deliberately limited to no more than two singles by any one band. The attempt is to give a fairly broad overview of some of the best punk and new wave singles by a broad spectrum of bands. Most of these singles were pretty easy to get when they were released, but now they'd take a fair amount of time and money spent at swap meets to scarf up.

ADVERTS
Gary Gilmore's Eyes/Bored Teenagers (Anchor)
No Time To Be 21/New Day Dawning (Bright)
The Adverts were sometimes called an MOR punk band, since they were a little slow and clumpy sounding, but TV Smith could sing a riveting vocal, and their brand of dole-queue songs were especially compelling. "Gary Gilmore" is an especially cool song about a guy getting eye transplants from death row inmate Gary Gilmore, who was executed in the 70s.

ALLEYCATS
Nothing Means Nothing Anymore/Gimme A Little Pain (Dangerhouse)
This Los Angeles band did a couple of lps and evolved into the Zarkons, but they never matched the white hot fury of these two tracks. "Nothing" got massively watered down for a subsequent lp take, but both these songs are pure rage on this single.

ANGELIC UPSTARTS
Teenage Warning/The Young Ones (EMI)
These guys were sort of a poor man's Sham 69; rather unoriginal, but these are both strong songs and are part of the beginnings of the splintering of punk into stuff like Oi, so they're worth giving notice to.

THE AVENGERS
We Are The One/I Believe In Me/Car Crash (Dangerhouse)
One of the greatest punk bands ever; this was the only record released by them when they were still playing. Penelope Houston was one of the best female singers of the 70s, and if the Avengers had been British they probably would've been up there with the Clash, Pistols, and the other first division bands. "We Are The One" is the best song they ever did.

BLONDIE
X Offender/In The Sun (Private Stock)
I'm Always Touched By Your Presence Dear/Poets Problem/Detroit 442 (Chrysalis)
Sure, Debby Harry is about 90 and Blondie got pretty lame, but those early Blondie records were classic power pop and I can still listen to them over and over. "X Offender" has classic lyrics and a great tune, while "Presence" is just a gorgeous power pop tune.

THE BOYS
First Time/Watcha Gonna Do/Turning Grey (NEMS)
Brickfield Nights/Teacher's Pet (NEMS)
Part of the second wave of punk bands that came on in the wake of the Pistols, Damned and Clash, the Boys never really got their due, although a friend of mine says he first heard them on the TV show "WKRP In Cincinnati" (the mind boggles). Anyway, "First Time" is great poppy punk with lyrics that would've been at home in a Buzz****s song, while "Brickfield Nights" is a little more sophisticated with piano bits, but still great.

BUZZ****S
I Don't Mind/Autonomy (UA)
Harmony In My Head/Something's Gone Wrong Again (UA)
I give up; no matter what two I choose everybody will argue. Take the whole Singles Going Steady lp and bronze it. I chose both these because although they may not be the best songs, as a pairing of A and B sides, they might stand an argument as the best overall quality. But they're all brilliant.

CHELSEA
Look At The Outside/Don't Get Me Wrong (Step Forward)
Chelsea were far from the most talented or heralded, but their brand of dole-queue punk could at times rise to pretty good heights, especially on singles, where they had five or six good ones. This one has two really good sides with some snarling vocals from Gene October. It's interesting to note that the original Chelsea was October and all of Generation X except Billy Idol! Weird.

THE CHORDS
Now It's Gone/Don't Go Back (Polydor)
The Chords were one of the best neo-mod bands, coming along in 1979 just as punk was really splintering into a dozen different camps. This isn't their best record...that would either be "Maybe Tomorrow" or "Something's Missing", but they came out in the 80s. This one's damn good stuff...Jam fans would love it.

THE CLASH
Clash City Rockers/Jail Guitar Doors (CBS)
Complete Control/The City Of The Dead (CBS)
There's a big Clash backlash now, since they've all gotten so stupid, but the Clash in their heyday could almost really claim the title of THE ONLY BAND THAT MATTERS. Singles weren't their big thing; their best song, "Safe European Home" isn't even on 7". People will pan me for not picking "White Riot", but I think that has more historical significance than musical quality, while these four tracks are all great tunes that show the best attribute of the Clash; the vocal and guitar blend of Mick Jones and Joe Strummer.

ELVIS COSTELLO
Radio Radio/Tiny Steps (Radar)
Hard to believe now, but in the 70s one of the big issues was the way radio didn't play anything interesting. Nowadays nobody even expects them to...anybody who likes good music ignores radio altogether. This song shows Costello with the Attractions when they were fresh and angry...I'll never forget them cutting from "Watching The Detectives" to this song on Saturday Night Live because this one was so much more relevant to the US, and ****ing off the SNL producers royally in the process.

THE DAMNED
New Rose/Help! (Stiff)
Love Song/Suicide/Noise Noise Noise (Chiswick)
I guess everybody knows about the Damned. "New Rose" was an easy choice; it's pretty close to the best punk song ever made as far as I'm concerned. The crazed version of the Beatles "Help!" doesn't hurt, either. The second single was tougher...could've opted for "Neat Neat Neat" or "Smash It Up", but "Love Song" marked the return of the Damned after a long hiatus with as much power as when they left, and although "Suicide" is a klunker, "Noise Noise Noise" is a cool one.

DEAD BOYS
Sonic Reducer/Down In Flames (Sire)
These guys didn't have as many singles as they should've, but "Sonic Reducer" is a great piece of metallic punk. This group was America's answer to the Pistols while they lasted.

THE DEAD KENNEDYS
California Uber Alles/Man With The Dogs (Fast)
Holiday In Cambodia/Police Truck (Cherry Red)
When I first heard "California Uber Alles" I thought I'd finally found a band to match the fury of the Pistols, since they had already split. Alas, subsequent Kennedy's records leaned more towards the thrashy or experimental and lacked the power of these two. By the way, if you only have these on lp, you really haven't heard them, because both these singles have far superior versions.

THE DICKIES
Give It Back/You Drive Me Ape (A&M)
In my estimation, the Dickies were the first to play hardcore, although they made it more poppy with brighter tunes than most subsequent bands. But they certainly had the pace. These two songs are the Dickies at their best...the only better song they ever did was their cover of "Paranoid".

THE DIODES
Red Rubber Ball/We're Ripped (CBS)
The Diodes were a Canadian group that actually did about 4 lps. Their first one is the only good one, and it included both sides of this single. The A side is a great, hard edged power pop version of the sixties classic. The flip is their own and equally punchy.

THE DRONES
Temptations Of A White Collar Worker ep (OHMs)
The Drones records used to sit in the record shop bins all over and get marked down until they were sold for ridiculous prices like 49 cents. Everybody who even thought of them hated them in the 70s...but they played classic dole-queue punk and now their records are pretty highly sought after. This one has four of their best.

EDDIE AND THE HOT RODS
Do Anything You Wanna Do/Schoolgirl Love (Island)
Quit This Town/Distortion May Be Expected (Island)
This poor band went from penthouse to outhouse in about 9 months; when they first started pub-rock was the rage and they rocked harder than anybody, but when real punk came along they sounded a little slow. Still, they wrote some great tunes (like the whole Life On The Line lp). "Do Anything" is an all time classic in my book...an essential record.

THE FLESHTONES
American Beat/Critical List (Red Star)
The start of the garage band revolution was actually before 1980 with bands like DMZ, the Lyres, and the Fleshtones. This is the first Fleshtones single, and it's a great one, both sides.

GANG OF FOUR
Damaged Goods/Love Like Anthrax/Armalite Rifles (Fast)
These guys were press darlings for quite a while as the first real post-punk band. Their mix of funk with punk and politics was pretty intriguing for quite a while, and their first ep, along with the later "At Home He's A Tourist" probably contain the best examples of it all on 45.

GENERATION X
Your Generation/Day By Day (Chrysalis)
Ready Steady Go/No No No (Chrysalis)
Billy Idol may be a laughable fool now, but when he started in Generation X as a teenager he fronted a band that played some of the most tuneful and exciting punk rock anywhere. The first five Generation X singles were all great, and one can only speculate as to what would make them lose it so totally later.

RICHARD HELL AND THE VOIDOIDS
Blank Generation/Love Comes In Spurts (Sire)
Part of the CBGB crowd, Richard Hell played in Television before striking out on his own. This stuff is definitely art-punk, and although a lot of Hell's stuff is a bunch of crap, "Blank Generation" was a great song about alienation. Hell often gets credit for being the first to wear ripped shirts with safety pins in them, by the way.

HOLLYWOOD BRATS
Then He Kissed Me/Sick On You (Cherry Red)
These songs were really recorded in 1974 or 75, but this single came out in 1979. It's great New York Dolls sounding guitar rock. The flip is really the ace cut; the Boys redid it on their first lp (Casino Steel was in both bands), but it sounds miles better here.

THE JAM
In The City/Takin' My Love (Polydor)
When You're Young/Smithers Jones (Polydor)
Probably my favorite band ever; the Jam went through about six different sounds in their career and put out a huge pile of great singles. "In The City" was their first...a great Who-like punk song with a killer guitar riff later stolen by the Pistols for "Holidays In The Sun". "When You're Young" is quite a lot later, and is a much more refined sound, still bristling with energy. The flip is different from the lp, too...no strings.

LA PESTE
Better Off Dead/Black (Black)
People who saw these guys in Boston in the 70s tell me that they were just fantastic. For the longest time, this great single of dark sounding punk was all there was to hear of them...now there's a cool lp of a radio show that you can find, too.

THE LAST
She Don't Know Why I'm Here/The Bombing Of London (Bomp)
One of the earliest LA power pop bands...they weren't as good as Paul Collin's Beat, but they did get out this great single...two cool sides.

LONDON
No Time/Siouxie Sue/Summer Of Love/Friday On My Mind (MCA)
London were definitely a minor league band on the UK punk scene, but they were MCAs try to enter the punk marketplace, so they got a good push for a while. "No Time" is really the only good song I've ever heard by them, but it's really good...hot melody, good singing and lots of energy.

THE LURKERS
Shadow/Love Story (Beggars Banquet)
Ain't Got A Clue/Ooh, Ooh I Love You (Beggars Banquet)
It took me a long time to get to like the Lurkers, but when they finally hit me, I loved them. Their records are very simple, basic, underproduced stuff that makes the Ramones sound like Queen. But they had a knack for really catchy, singalong choruses and they've got this amateurish charm that you just have to fall for eventually. I now rank these guys as among the greats.

MAGAZINE
Shot By Both Sides/My Mind Ain't So Open (Virgin)
Rhythm Of Cruelty/TV Baby (Virgin)
Magazine were Howard Devoto's band after he left the Buzz****s. They were arty and pretentious as all hell, and there was never a Magazine lp that didn't have at least a few tracks that I hated passionately. But they also did some great ones; "Shot" is the same music as the Buzz****s' "Lipstick", but played much more like a threat and with much darker lyrics. "Cruelty" is also mean sounding, but has a great guitar line.

MANIACS
Chelsea 77/Ain't No Legend (UA)
Another basic, stupid second tier punk band that never made it, but they did put out this smashingly catchy piece of aggro punk that should make any Sham lover smile.

MEKONS
Where Were You/I'll Have To Dance On My Own (Fast)
I don't understand how this band is still around; when they started they were best mates of Gang Of Four and played similar music, though not as consistently good. This is their second single, and it's probably the best thing they ever did.

THE MEMBERS
Solitary Confinement/Rat Up A Drainpipe (Stiff)
Sound Of The Suburbs/Handling The Big Jets (Virgin)
I loved these guys; I still remember buying "Sound Of The Suburbs" at Tower because I thought the sleeve looked cool (it's a die cut thing shaped like a TV screen with a clear vinyl record to look through at the picture behind). I was especially happy to find that the song was so great...songs of yobbo working class suburban life with great tunes behind. "Solitary Confinement" was their first...it's even better.

THE MONOCHROME SET
Alphaville/He's Frank (Rough Trade)
The Monochrome Set were a weird mix of arty new wave and comedy with lots of keyboards. It's the sort of thing I normally hate, except these guys wrote such cool tunes. This was one of them.

THE NEIGHBORHOODS
No Place Like Home/Prettiest Girl (Ace Of Hearts)
Another Boston band; these two tracks sound like power pop at first, but they're a little too awkward for that. But they grow steadily on you if you let them, and I still find this a fun one to go back to.

999
Nasty Nasty/No Pity (UA)
This group was really no better than punk bands like the Maniacs or UK Subs, but through perseverance they managed to occasionally do something pretty good. "Nasty Nasty" is the best with some fairly ripping guitar parts. Nick Cash's singing may annoy you or make you love 'em, depending on how you like strange voices.

THE ONLY ONES
Lovers Of Today/Peter And The Pets (Vengeance)
Another Girl Another Planet/Special View (CBS)
Were they really a punk band, or were they a confused early 70s band? They had members with a dinosaur band heritage, but they did some really cool songs. Peter Perrett sang through his nose better than anyone with these really down and out lyrics, and there's great guitar and tunes.

THE PAGANS
Not Now, No Way/I Juvenile (Drome)
If they had been in London instead of Cleveland, the Pagans would've reached much higher heights, because they could sure write an amazing punk tune, as you can see from any of their lps. "Not Now, No Way" is my favorite for its instantly memorable chorus.

PLASTIC BERTRAND
Ca Plane Pour Moi/Pogo Pogo (Sire)
Plastic Bertrand caused a minor sensation in 1978 when his first lp came out accompanied by this single. His nasally French singing over these catchy three chord buzz songs was a total revelation. People forgot him pretty fast, though, but I still love this song, which he later redid with new words as "Jet Boy Jet Girl" (later covered by millions) under the name Elton Motello. But the original is the best.

PUBLIC IMAGE LIMITED
Public Image/The Cowboy Song (Virgin)
PIL suck. One of the things punk rock was supposed to be about was destroying this elitist pretentious attitude that so many musicians have. But the press went to Johnny Rotten's head, and PIL has been guilty of some of the worst excesses in music over the years. But "Public Image" as a song about the end of the Pistols is a great epitaph; the one PIL song I even have any desire to hear.

PURPLE HEARTS
Millions Like Us/Beat That (Polydor)
Like the Chords, the Purple Hearts were part of the neo-mod thing. Both these songs were great pieces of moddish power pop that Jam fans should swallow in large unchewed chunks.

RADIATORS FROM SPACE
Enemies/Psychotic Reaction (Chiswick)
First Irish punk band? Why, the Radiators From Space, of course! Way before SLF or the Undertones, these guys did one really great but ignored lp (TV Tube Heart), and then followed record company advice into oblivion trying to change over to power pop. Their best songs are on the lp, but "Enemies" is pretty good.

RADIO BIRDMAN
Burned My Eye/I-94/Snake/Smith And Wesson Blues (Trafalgar)
Aloha Steve And Danno/Anglo Girl Desire (Trafalgar)
Those serving for the Soviet Army in Siberia since 1980 will probably be surprised to find that the Birdmen are now considered one of the most important bands of the late 70s, since everyone ignored them then. But they are, and although they didn't have many singles, they made them count. Here's two great examples of their mesh of Detroit metal, jazz, surf music and punk.

RADIO STARS
Nervous Wreck/Horrible Breath (Chiswick)
More old timers that cashed in on punk by switching styles...but they still did it well and that's really the question, right? A lot of their records were a kind of limp power pop, but "Nervous Wreck" is great stuff.

RAMONES
Rockaway Beach/Teenage Lobotomy/Beat On The Brat (Sire)
I'm Against It/Needles And Pins (Sire)
The Gods. The band that gave the tablets to Moses. You know 'em. You love 'em. I won't argue anyone's choices with them...just let me say that my fave Ramone's song is "I'm Against It" and I searched a long time before I found the French release with "Needles And Pins" on the flip. The other one is a cheat...it's a British single that combines three of their best tracks onto one record.

THE REAL KIDS
All Kindsa Girls/Taxi Boys (Red Star)
Bad timing is all that separated the Real Kids from greatness. Everybody else was cutting their hair short and the Real Kids appeared on their lp jacket with hair down their backs. Nobody bought it. But in the grooves is some of the greatest garagey power pop ever made. "All Kindsa Girls" is the best of it all, an absolute classic.

THE RECORDS
Starry Eyes/Paint Her Face (Virgin)
The Records were a Trouser Press fave, but I never got to like them as much because they were wildly inconsistent. They made two fabulous power pop records; this one and "Teenarama", but their lps were pretty spotty. A classic example of why you need to buy singles.

THE REZILLOS
Flying Saucer Attack/Good Sculptures (Sire)
Cold Wars/Flying Saucer Attack/Twist And Shout (Sire)
Best Scottish band ever bar none. The Rezillos brand of science fiction power pop/punk was the pinnacle of the form. The singing duo of Fay Fife and Eugene Reynolds was a pairing made in heaven, and the band behind them was guitar power to the max. These singles prove it.

RICH KIDS
Rich Kids/Empty Words (EMI)
Ghosts Of Princes In Towers/Only Arsenic (EMI)
The first punk rock supergroup formed with members of other name bands (Matlock from the Pistols, Midge Ure from Slik). Eventually they collapsed under the weight of unbearable expectations, leaving a spotty track record, but these two singles at least were great pieces of hard edged power pop with some hot guitar and cool songwriting.

TOM ROBINSON BAND
Rising Free ep: Don't Take No For An Answer/Glad To Be Gay/Martin/Right On Sister (EMI)
Up Against The Wall/I'm Alright Jack (EMI)
Tom Robinson started out in the wimpy Cafe Society, and he's a wimp now, but in between he went through some sort of transitional phase that had him fronting this great political band. Fired by Danny Kustow's hot guitar playing and Tom's ****ney vocals, they were at their best on these two records...after the first lp it was just downhill.

RUDI
Big Time/Number One (Good Vibrations)
More mod stuff, but this time from Ireland. Rudi never got the chance to make an lp, but all their singles were really solid and stand up to lots and lots of playing. This single was a good theme song for them...it basically says the band wants no part of musical success.

RUTS
In A Rut/H-Eyes (People Unite)
Babylon's Burning/Society (Virgin)
I still don't understand how the Ruts weren't more highly regarded...they made some of the most ferocious records ever. I wouldn't be without either of these singles, especially the first, which has two top drawer go for the throaters. "Society" isn't near their best stuff, but "Babylon" is absolutely their top track...fantastic.


Continued..........

[dreamkillers]

THE SAINTS
I'm Stranded/No Time (Power Exchange)
Know Your Product/Run Down (Harvest)
It was hard to leave out "This Perfect Day", but "I'm Stranded" was a no-brainer choice and I decided I had to have "Know Your Product" because of the great shouted bits like "Where's the professor!". Nobody ever made the word "Alright" sound so important in a song as Chris Bailey, either. Massive three chord punk brilliance.

SCIENTISTS
Frantic Romantic/Shake Together
I really wanted the Scientists ep for this, but even though it was recorded at the same time, it didn't come out until 1980. But I'll take "Shake Together" any day, thank you...it's brilliantly poppy punk. "Frantic Romantic" is a little too cute for my tastes.

SEX PISTOLS
Anarchy In The UK/I Wanna Be Me (EMI)
God Save The Queen/Did You No Wrong (Virgin)
What can I say? The Ramones may have started it all, but the Sex Pistols rubbed everybody's face in it. Coming out with "God Save The Queen" on the week of the celebration of the Queen's 25th anniversary on the throne was a masterpiece of timing. The A and B side of both these singles are all great, and the flips are not on Bollocks, although they probably are on any of half a dozen other reissues by now.

SHAM 69
Angels With Dirty Faces/The ****ney Kids Are Innocent (Polydor)
There's Gonna Be A Borstal Breakout/Hey Little Rich Boy (Polydor)
Sham were a band that forged a strong bond with working class fans in their heyday; it gave 'em a lot of problems at gigs, which were likely to turn into full scale riots when fans of several different football teams would show up at the same gig. They had a great aggro style of playing, and Jimmy Pursey's hoarse, shouted vocals made their songs sound like soccer cheers. All four sides of these two singles are excellent stuff; they got lame later in their career, but there was a lot of good stuff for a few years.

SIOUXIE AND THE BANSHEES
Hong Kong Garden/Voices (Polydor)
Siouxie originally was one of the first Sex Pistols fans, but she grabbed onto the anyone-can-do-it ethic and started her own band. Even the early Banshees tended to be too arty for me, and for the past ten years they haven't done anything I'd want to hear, but there were some good singles (check out the Once Upon A Time singles lp). "Hong Kong Garden" is a great pop track and their first single.

SKIDS
Into The Valley/TV Stars (Virgin)
Working For The Yankee Dollar/Vanguard's Crusade (Virgin)
Skids frontman Richard Jobson was an odd sort with a disturbing tendency to talk in positive terms about concepts like master races and things like that. In their songs you could never understand the words through his thick Scotts accent, so it didn't matter so much, but the Skids martial, anthemic songs could be a real kick.

SLAUGHTER AND THE DOGS
I'm The One/What's Wrong Boy/Hell In New York (This Record Co.)
These guys have nothing to do with the present day metal band Slaughter, but they did have a fairly glittery sounding approach to their brand of punk rock. They came from Manchester, England, home of the Buzz****s, and they actually had quite a few good records besides this one. They never achieved much popularity, which is probably mainly because they didn't sing with pronounced English accents as was the hip style then. But this has tons of energy and three really great tunes.

THE SPECIAL AKA
Gangsters
THE SELECTER
The Selecter (Two Tone)
The Specials were, for a fleeting moment, a rare band that created a fairly original sound that actually worked. Most of the bands that were popular when ska was in weren't really very good, but the Specials really had it on their first lp. This was the single that kicked it off, and though I can't say much for the Selecter track, "Gangsters" was great.

STARJETS
War Stories/Do The Push (Epic)
The Starjets were at least as good a power pop band as the Records, yet they never had anybody champion them, so they were pretty much ignored. Their two singles "War Stories" and "Schooldays" are a match for the two best Records singles, though...soaring tunes that can grab you in one play.

STIFF LITTLE FINGERS
Alternative Ulster/78 Revolutions A Minute (Rough Trade)
Gotta Gettaway/Bloody Sunday (Rough Trade)
It's really hard to leave "Suspect Device" off this list, and taking both sides into consideration it may be a better single than either of these, but these are SLF's two greatest A-sides for sure; brilliant punk tracks with catchy singalong tunes and Jake's ripped up throat singing. The single version of "Gotta Gettaway" is different from the lp take, too. These guys are damn near the top of the stack in my book.

THE STRANGLERS
No More Heroes/In The Shadows (UA)
Something Better Change/Straighten Out/Grip/Hanging Around (A&M)
I hated the Stranglers when they first appeared because they sounded so much like the Doors, who I also loathed. But more listenings began to reveal the differences, and I came to like their first three lps quite a bit. The "Something Better Change"ep was a US release, and packs together four great tracks on one record, while "No More Heroes" is just their best ever. Vicious vocals and swirling keyboards with loud bass marked their sound.

SWELL MAPS
Read About Seymour/Ripped And Torn/Black Velvet (Rather)
Let's Build A Car/Big Maz In The Country (Rough Trade)
All the rules were thrown out, and in walked Swell Maps as a result. They played windup toys, vacuum cleaners, alarm clocks, washboards and whatever other junk they could find to make a noise, and most of the time it didn't sound forced or pretentious. Some of their songs could turn into a mess of disjoint sound, but others had a brilliant naive charm to them. Nikki Sudden couldn't really sing...he just sort of chanted over the top of everything. Their high points are best documented in the Collision Time lp, which has both of these A sides.

TALKING HEADS
Pulled Up/Don't Worry About The Government (Sire)
Another CBGB band that probably needs no introduction; they were best on their first two lps where the music they played was their own, as opposed to later when they spent all their time searching for new forms and then copying them. This was their first UK single.

JOHNNY THUNDERS & THE HEARTBREAKERS
Chinese Rocks/Born To Lose (Track)
One Track Mind/Can't Keep My Eyes On You/Do You Love Me? (Track)
Punk rock's number one junkie managed to come up with a fabulous set list in 1977 and has spent the rest of his career issuing different live versions of the same stuff, it seems. Still, the originals of those songs were totally great with that trademark slashing and sloppy guitar and Johnny's nasal vocals. All five songs on these two records are great, and it's probably only his addiction that kept Thunders from getting to be one of the biggest names in the business. Of course, without dope, what would he sing about? The lyrics to "Chinese Rock" are the best tribute to the love-hate relationship of a heroin addict with himself that you'll ever hear.

TV21
Playing With Fire/Shattered By It All (Powbeat)
Another fairly minor Scottish band with mod tendencies; these guys made some great songs, especially their first two singles on Powbeat. Both these tracks are emotionally charged with some excellent heartfelt vocals. TV21's strength was in writing songs that built from fairly quiet parts into full on anthemic crescendos, and here's some prime examples.

UK SUBS
Stranglehold/World War/Rockers (RCA)
Persistence is the main attribute of the UK Subs; they just played in San Diego the other night, as a matter of fact. But when punk was happening in the late 70s, there weren't many people who really paid attention to the Subs, and they were somewhat outside of things. Singer Charlie Harper has a good hoarse shout, but they only occasionally did a song that rose up much. "Stranglehold" was one such track.

ULTRAVOX
Young Savage/Slipaway (Island)
They really should have changed the name after Midge Ure replaced John Foxx, because there sure isn't much similarity between the raving "Young Savage" and later wimpy synth sounds that Ultravox became best known for. Early Ultravox records were pretty cool, and this one is the best.

THE UNDERTONES
You Got My Number/Let's Talk About Girls (Sire)
Jimmy Jimmy/Mars Bars (Sire)
A classic example of a young band with great power pop instincts of their own who listened to their press instead and didn't stick to what they did best. But for two lps they were pretty damn great. "You Got My Number" towers over all their other stuff...it's by far the hardest and nastiest production they ever got, and a killer song. "Jimmy Jimmy" is from their first lp, and though it probably isn't as good a song as "Teenage Kicks" or "Get Over You", the pairing with "Mars Bars" makes it their second best single.

THE VIBRATORS
London Girls/Stiff Little Fingers (Epic)
The Vibrators were one of my faves of all time, but since their label made a habit out of picking their softest stuff for singles, they don't have such a great 7" legacy. These two tracks are cool because they're live takes; I love the intro to the A side "This is a song about girls in London, and it's called...London Girls!" Both takes are rough and sloppy, but they've still got that great chugging drum sound.

THE VICE CREEMS
Won't You Be My Girl?/01-01-212 (Tiger)
Really minor league here...the Vice Creems were fronted by Kris Needs, the guy who single handedly dragged Zig Zag magazine kicking and screaming from progressive rock hype to a full on punk coverage. His band didn't get beyond a couple of singles, but I still love this one; two super pop/punk tracks with catchy singalong choruses.

THE WEIRDOS
We Got The Neutron Bomb/Solitary Confinement (Dangerhouse)
I'd stack this single up against just about anything...the Weirdos were hard edged and deadly when they did this...much different from their later lps where the had mutated into some kind of funny punk joke band. This one has fat, fat, fat powerhouse guitar and tough singing plus two full on tunes to boot. Awesome.

THE WIPERS
Better Off Dead/Up In Flames/Does It Hurt (Trap)
Even at the start the Wipers had that spacey guitar feel to them, but it's a much rougher and more energetic production. Great singing from Greg Sage, too...a real dark and moody feel powers "Better Off Dead". The guitar on these songs is way too sophisticated for the average punk song, but it works fantastically. If they had come from anywhere other than Portland, Oregon, the Wipers would've gotten credit for being one of the greatest US bands ever...they deserve it.

WIRE
Mannequin/Feeling Called Love/12XU (Harvest)
Wire weren't really a singles band, but they were one of the most original and greatest bands of their day. Their first three lps are crucial to any collection; all three are different from each other, and each is inventive and creative throughout. The fact that they later fell into the new wave dance music sewer is irrelevant; lps like Pink Flag, Chairs Missing, or 154 will endure forever. "12XU" is to my mind their greatest moment. Short, to the point, raw and powerful, it's Pink Flag era Wire at their finest. The other two are no slouches, either.

X RAY SPEX
Oh Bondage Up Yours/I'm a Cliche (Virgin)
It's hard to take a full lp of Poly Styrene's screeching, but for a single track here or their it's pretty cool. I'll take either this single or "The Day The World Turned Dayglo" as the best examples of X Ray Spex doing their revolt-in-plastic punk. Weird arty stuff with saxophone.

XTC
Life Begins At The Hop/Homo Safari (Virgin)
Definitely new wave and not punk, XTC had a rough edge to them that made them a lot of fun when they started. They later got more polished and left me behind, but I really like tracks like "Statue Of Liberty" or this one. I always thought of XTC as being a British version of the Talking Heads...maybe a little goofier and more fun.

YACHTS
Love You Love You/Hazy People (Radar)
An odd band to be ending up on...the Yachts are universally derided where anyone can be found that even knows anything about them, but I really loved their first lp S.O.S. for the way they hammered out these rocking power pop songs surrounded by swirling washes of cheap keyboards. Lots of their songs strung together common threads of boating and strange tales of love, and they had some hysterically funny lyrics, like "I wouldn't climb any mountain for you/Ford any stream that's a daft thing to do/'Cos I'm cynical cynical cynical through and through" from the A side of this one.

So that's it...my recommended starter collection of 70s punk and new wave singles. One of the fun things about making lists like this is the opportunity to have people disagree, so if you like something else better or hate something I included, that's life!



Welcome to Noise For Heroes!

This is now the third incarnation of Noise For Heroes. The first was from 1980 to 1983, when NFH was a xerox fanzine covering mostly British punk and new wave bands. The second was from 1987 to 1992, when NFH covered punk, garage and power pop bands worldwide, focusing on the Australian and continental European scenes with a fair amount of US coverage. Now NFH is moving to the Internet, and that makes it possible to include most of what was written in past issues of NFH as well as to keep adding new material. There are so many bands in the world today that no one can possibly keep up with them all, but hopefully Noise For Heroes can become a valuable reference where you can find out a lot about great bands that aren’t very well known elsewhere.

Features and reviews are organized by geographic area, which can only be justified on the grounds that there is a hell of a lot less room to argue about where a band is from than there is about what kind of music they play! So click a link on the left and see what's been happening around the world.



Australian Record Label Discographies

I've compiled discographies on a bunch of the key Aussie labels of the 1980s. Links to them are below. There are many holes and possibly many errors, too, since the sources for this information ranged all over the map. Corrections and additions are welcomed and encouraged...just click the e-mail link over there on the sidebar and blast one off to me.

Aberrant Records - Sydney label of avante garde and noise bands
Augogo Records - Melbourne label with many Aussie and international bands
Citadel Records - one of the greats, home to many Radio Birdman related bands
Doublethink Records - early 80s post punk label out of Sydney
Easter Records - Perth pop bands
Greasy Pop Records - label devoted strictly to Adelaide bands
Hot Records - Sydney label home to Celibate Rifles and Ed Kuepper among others
Method Records - early to mid 80s Sydney post punk label
Mr.Spaceman Records - rock and pop label out of Melbourne area
Phantom Records - pioneering Sydney label with Radio Birdman ties
Red Eye Records - Sydney label with Beasts Of Bourbon, etc.
Vi-Nil Records - Sydney punk label
Waterfront Records - Sydney based equivalent to Augogo


100 Top 70s Punk LPs
This article originally appeared in NFH #21.

Last issue's feature on 100 essential 70s punk singles was highly successful on many levels. First of all, it apparently helped sell most of the issues taken by distributors so I don't have a huge pile of back copies in my garage that will never sell (maybe a Madonna feature is in order...). Second, it netted me lots of great hate mail from people whose faves were left out (actually, there was surprisingly calm reaction from most people). Finally, it filled up several pages writing about something that flows considerably more easily than getting features on recluses like Rob Younger. So under the credo that a good horse should always be ridden straight into the ground, here's the sequel, namely "A Large Pile Of 70s Punk LPs Without Which You Are An Individual Of Debatable Consequence And Why In 100 Words Or Less Each" or "How I Learned To Love The Bombs".

As before, the idea is not to say which is best, although it's Never Mind The Bollocks, Here's The Sex Pistols. I can't be bothered with ranking them...just go get them all. Would I lead you wrong?

THE ADVERTS
Crossing The Red Sea With The Adverts (Bright)
TV Smith at his finest, no doubt. He's got those great urgent vocals, and when it came out the prominent British accent was a breath of fresh air after years of Brits trying to sound like Americans. There's several pressings of this, and I'd recommend trying to find one that has "Gary Gilmore's Eyes" on it, since that's one of their best ever and not all pressings have it. But even if you miss it, "One Chord Wonders", "Bored Teenagers", "Bombsite Boy", "No Time To Be 21" and "Great British Mistake" are all killer. WARNING - the second Adverts lp, Cast Of Thousands, was a victim of a horrible attempt to convert the band into a safer new wave style andwhile anything with TV Smith on it is bound to be good, is nowhere near the classic that the first one is.

THE AVENGERS
The Avengers(CD)
Although this lp wasn't released until 1983, it was recorded in 1977 and 1978 when the Avengers were conceivably the best and most powerful band on the west coast of the US. If there had been the opportunities to get press and make records that UK bands had, there's little doubt in my mind that the Avengers would have been as important as the Clash. Tough, gut wrenching songs that said something, and a female vocal performance that's been matched rarely in the days since. The band plays hard with loud fat guitars...classic punk.

THE BEAT
The Beat (CBS)
No, I'm not talking about the English ska band...this is the powerpop outfit fronted by Paul Collins. They were ahead of the Knack, and they were honest, too...this is what they wanted to do, not some scam to cash in on a coming fad. The LA Times Calendar section picked this the best lp of 1979, and it's probably the last time they were remotely close to right. The songs on this are just super pieces of rock and roll...great harmonies with rough edged playing. Songs like "Rock'n'Roll Girl", "Walking Out On Love" or "Don't Wait Up For Me" are great pieces of Buddy Holly flavored rock and roll.

BLONDIE
Blondie (Private Stock)
Underground music fans remind me a lot of the Communist Party in China. Bands come along and are in favor, then all of a sudden they lose it all and everybody dumps them. Sometimes they get rehabilitated and become acceptable to like again. Has Blondie ever recovered from having the gall to do "Heart Of Glass" and worse atrocities later? I dunno, but I still love that first lp with those great girl group songs like "Little Girl Lies", "Rifle Range", "Kung Fu Girls", and of course, the brilliant "X Offender". How anybody ever thought this was punk rock (and they did back then) I'll never know...it must have been their CBGBs roots, but it's a great record (their next one, Plastic Letters, is pretty good, too).

THE BOYS
The Boys (Nems)
The Boys were a London punk band that evolved over time into a kind of strange power pop outfit, but for their first lp they were great pop/punk fiends. Somehow they never got much notice for their efforts, which is hard to understand now, because this lp has a lot more kick, spunk, and tunefulness than a hell of a lot of more highly regarded competitors. It's got a pretty classic chugging 4/4 drum sound and some tasty, fat guitars. Maybe the problem was that the lyrics were kind of goofy good time things, while the press was more interested in political bands. That might explain why this record has aged a lot more gracefully; I can imagine this being released today.

BUZZ****S
Another Music In A Different Kitchen (UA)
Love Bites (UA)
Singles Going Steady (IRS)
A Different Kind Of Tension (IRS)
There's no way I'm gonna leave out any Buzz****s record from this list, although I'm not counting posthumous stuff or any reunion things that may come along. Best way to get up to date on these guys is to buy the Product CD set, which has all the lps and every missing B side, plus the Parts 1-3 single series and some live stuff. The Buzz****s were one of the two or three best ever... killer snappy punk songs with pop hooks and deliriously catchy tunes with weird perspectives on love. Every one of these lps has a handful of songs so good that the average band would be lucky to come up with one comparable track in their career. I'd rate the first three as dead equals for quality and the fourth less by a gnat's eyelash.

CHELSEA
Alternative Hits (Step Forward)
Chelsea were a London based band who led off their existence with a fairly dull political song called "Right To Work", but then broadened their horizons and got a lot stronger musically. This record, which is different by only one track from a US disc called No Escape, compiles a batch of their singles to produce a really solid album. Chelsea often sound pretty awkward, and their singer was more of a shouter, but there's some great songs like "No Escape", "Urban Kids", "Look At The Outside" or "No One's Coming Outside". Chelsea surprisingly hung around for quite a while and had some good lps into the early 80s, too.

THE CHORDS
So Far Away (Polydor)
This might be cheating a bit since it came out in 1980, but it was recorded in 1979 and the band had most of their success that year in the UK mod movement that brought the Jam to the peak of their popularity. It's been widely ignored but I thought it was the best lp of the year it came out...great anthemic songs with huge ringing guitars and wild man drumming. I'd describe them as a slightly more straight on and more energetic version of the Jam circa their first two lps. "Maybe Tomorrow" and "Somethings Missing" are two of my all time faves.

THE CLASH
The Clash (CBS)
Give 'Em Enough Rope (CBS)
How do you convince anyone that the Clash were a really meaningful band when all they know by them is "Rock The Casbah", "Should I Stay Or Should I Go" and "Brand New Cadillac"? It's damn hard, I'll tell you. But pretend it's a totally different band and go try on these two lps (get the US copy of the first one; it's piles better). Songs like "Jail Guitar Doors", "I'm So Bored With The USA", "Janie Jones", "Career Opportunities", "Remote Control", or "Safe European Home", now those are some great songs. As usual, the first lp is the better, but although there are fewer standout tracks on the second, it's consistently good throughout. The press went to their head, but you can still hear the magic from before it happened.

ELVIS COSTELLO
This Year's Model (CBS)
It's been a long time since I've paid any attention to a new Elvis Costello release, but they used to be a very significant event. The My Aim Is True record was an impressive debut, but even so it was pretty overrated by the rock press; This Year's Model proved how much better Costello could be if he got a band that really gave a damn behind him instead of the feeble San Francisco band Clover, who were the main backing on that first record. The Attractions were a tough and gutty band; I remember seeing them on their first US tour just before this record came out and I couldn't believe how much better they were live than the first lp was on a stereo, but what really blew me away was the songs they previewed from this record...although I'd never heard them before I can still remember the attack and bite of songs like "Radio Radio", "Lipstick Vogue", "No Action", "Hand In Hand" and "Lip Service". The US version of this is definitely the one to get since the UK record drops "Radio Radio" for a couple of much weaker tracks.

THE DAMNED
Damned Damned Damned (Stiff)
Machine Gun Etiquette (Chiswick)
I bought the first Damned lp on Stiff from a Wherehouse chain shop import bin in 1978. At the time I'd never heard anything so raw sounding, including the first Sex Pistols record. Unused to the wild production style, I took several months to absorb it all; at first it was some of the slower tracks like "Fan Club", with it's killer guitar hook, that caught my interest, but as time went on it became obvious that tracks like the hammering "New Rose", "Neat Neat Neat" and "So Messed Up" were the real aces. In a year's time I was playing this lp constantly, and now it's apparent that it's one of the punk lps that has aged most gracefully...it still sounds great today with wild drumming, great hot guitar licks from Brian James, and some killer songs. How anybody could listen to this and say that punks couldn't play is beyond me! By the time of their third lp, Machine Gun Etiquette, the Damned had split up and reformed several times, and now had Captain Sensible moving up to replace Brian James on guitar. Although it might have been expected that the band would have matured some by now, little of the sort had in fact happened. There are some more sophisticated songs with more complicated structures, but basically it's more of the same rave up stuff, especially with "Love Song", "Plan 9 Channel 7" and "Smash It Up" as signatures.

THE DEAD BOYS
Young Loud And Snotty (Sire)
We Have Come For Your Children (Sire)
Cleveland's Dead Boys moved to New York almost at the start of their career and quickly established themselves as the hardest and nastiest of the CBGBs bands signed to Sire. For a while they swapped rock and roll headlines with the Pistols with one incident after another, culminating in a member getting stabbed. Their style was a great metallic punk sound epitomized by the classic "Sonic Reducer" from the first lp. Cheetah Chrome spilled out some of the toughest, nastiest guitar ever heard at that point, and Stiv Bators had the snottiest vocal style of all the American bands. Their songs could be pretty inflammatory; imagine requesting "Caught With The Meat In Your Mouth" from your local station! But at the same time, they understood the need for hooks in songs, and they've got some great ones. On the second lp, the sound was more produced and a little less raw, but there are still lots of great moments like "Third Generation Nation", "Ain't It Fun", or the monstrous "Son Of Sam".

THE DICKIES
The Incredible Shrinking Dickies (A&M)
The first time I heard this record, I figured there was just no way a band could play any faster. When thrash came along that was proved wrong, but few bands have ever played songs with pop hooks this fast. It's totally silly cartoon punk of the lowest caliber, but it's so hokey it's like the movie Airplane...it becomes great. Their 100 mph version of "Paranoid" is one of the greatest punk covers ever, and some of their own songs like "You Drive Me Ape" are as good. They couldn't continue to match this brilliance though as their second lp had only a couple of good tracks and now they're just plain stupid.

THE DIODES
The Diodes (CBS)
Canada's entry in the hot 100, the Diodes actually had quite a few records but this is the only one I've heard that I'd recommend. And it's a great one. It starts with their killer version of the Cyrcle's folk/pop classic "Red Rubber Ball", and it maintains the pace through a batch of their own cool tunes like "Child Star", "Blonde Fever" or "Behind Those Eyes". As with a lot of records from these days the sound is a little confused...the Diodes here sound like a early 70s heavy rock band blended with the Ramones. Lots of good power pop vocal harmonies add to the confusion.

THE DRONES
Further Temptations (Valer)
Aside from the fact that this is a great punk record, I love it because I got it at the swap meet in front of the Capitol Records building in Hollywood for 49 cents when it first came out and now people are paying outrageous sums for it. Every review I ever read of it (and there weren't many) panned it, but I can't figure out why...it's got the same kind of chugging rhythm section that made the Vibrators so great, and the songs are real catchy Ramones-type tunes with a hot guitar sound. The singer's got a period-perfect ****ney-yobbo voice. The Stooges-riffing in "Movement" and the racy guitars of "Look Alikes" are the highlights, but there's plenty else to hang your hat on here.

EATER
The Album (The Label)
This is probably overrated, but it's interesting to hear the racket made by a bunch of teenagers from the late 70s making it to record. The main problem Eater had was that they had a crappy Fender guitar sound with next to no distortion, which makes things a little weedy, but you can rely on the bass to drive things along. If the guitar could match the Drones, this record would be on a similar level with theirs. I list it here primarily because it's a good sample of some of the more run-of-the-mill dole queue punk rock.

EDDIE AND THE HOT RODS
Life On The Line (Island)
Hard to figure these guys...they started with an OK record called Teenage Depression which was a weird mix of live and studio stuff that showed promise but not much more, then hit huge with this record, and subsequently slid into oblivion behind a series of defections and horrible producer choices. On this lp, Eddie And The Hot Rods are probably better described as a high-octane pub-rock band than a punk band, but they sure did some great songs, starting with the brilliant "Do Anything You Wanna Do" but continuing through "Quit This Town", "What's Really Going On", "Ignore Them" and the title song. Singer Barrie Masters later adopted a style that sounded really fakey (much like the change in the Who's Roger Daltry as he got older), but on this record the singing sounds real and urgent. Great stuff.



Continued........

[dreamkillers]

THE FALL
Live At The Witch Trials (Step Forward)
To me the Fall were too dry to really be contenders, but lots of other people thought (and still think) they were fabulous, so I figure I ought to list them here to be complete and let you make up your own mind. These songs definitely do not have pop hooks; they feature Mark Smith talking the lyrics over the top of scratchy guitars and mercilessly overplayed drums...a fill at the end of every vocal line and no two the same. The structure of things is rock and roll, but like a lot of noise bands today, the rhythm foundation is rock and roll while the vocals and guitar are off doing other things. I don't know if I'd say the Fall were ahead of their time; it's more like they were off to the side of it.

GANG OF FOUR
Entertainment (Warner Bros)
Although this is a terrific lp, I can't help but look at it as marking the end of the seventies punk era...it seemed like this was the record that made critics convinced that it was safe to go looking for music that wasn't bristling with energy and speed. Gang Of Four were followed as press darlings by Joy Division, then by the Human League, then by OMD, then Soft Cell, then Boy George and the slide still hasn't ended in the UK. But Entertainment was a pretty amazing accomplishment...at the time it was virtually a brand new style of music; a sort of funk based punk rock with this sharp edged, jarring guitar sound and highly political lyrics. And unlike most bands that reach for a dramatically different style, Gang Of Four made something really good and listenable. Except for the Mekons first lp, there really isn't another record out there that sounds comparable to this.

GENERATION X
Generation X (Chrysalis)
Here's another one where you have to be sure to get the US copy. Funny how the US labels screwed us by putting out all the weakest punk songs as singles but on the lps, they regularly replaced softer tracks with much better songs available only as singles in the UK. That's the case here...this thing's loaded with the best of Generation X all on one record. Yeah, it's Billy Idol singing, but he's a 17 year old kid here, and MTV hasn't made his head too fat yet. These songs have a great feel for pop hooks and they convey the sense of teenage rebellion that drove punk rock about as well as any record ever made. Compare this to the amateurish Eater and it's amazing to think that a bunch of guys under twenty could put together such a great set of material. Awesome. Warning...all other Gen X records are lame.

THE HEARTBREAKERS
L.A.M.F. Revisited (Track)
There was much moaning for many years about how the first Heartbreakers lp was ruined by a shoddy mix, so celebrations were in order when this version remixed by Johnny Thunders and Tony James came out in 1984. It's basically the same record as the original L.A.M.F. (it's also been re-sequenced) but it sounds so much ballsier that there's no point in looking for the original. This is the basic set of songs that Thunders played for most of his career, all written in a burst in the mid 70s. It's amazing how he could come up with such a great batch of tracks and then write only about four more good songs the rest of his life. But it's all here, the slashing classic Thunders guitar style and snotty vocals. This record is one of the ten best ever.

RICHARD HELL AND THE VOIDOIDS
Blank Generation (Sire)
Richard Hell was a co-founder of Television and another CBGB alumnus, but his approach was much more art oriented than a lot of the other bands from that club. As a result, this record has to be approached with a jaundiced eye...I look at it as an important artifact to give a well rounded view of what was going on, but that doesn't mean I play it a whole lot. "Blank Generation" is a pretty great song, and "Love Comes In Spurts" is good for a few snickers, but the rest of it is kind of average.

HOLLYWOOD BRATS
Hollywood Brats (Cherry Red)
Recorded in 1975, released in 1980 and still ahead of its time today, this is a fantastic record of snotty, glam punk with Thunders-like guitar, New York Dolls styled rock and roll songs, and great lyrics of life in the gutter. Totally brilliant from the opening "Chez Maximes" to the closing blast of "Sick On You", if someone had gotten this out in 1977 it would have taken a place next to the greats of punk rock records. As it was it was a little too late and has been ignored ever since. It's interesting to note that Casino Steel went on to play in the Boys and several of these songs are on the first Boys lp in radically different form.

THE JAM
In The City (Polydor)
This Is The Modern World (Polydor)
Setting Sons (Polydor)
I suspect the average British critic would pick All Mod Cons as the Jam's landmark lp, since that's the one that kicked off the mod revival and moved the Jam to star status in the isles, but it's really my least favorite Jam record. In The City was rough and raw with an early Who sound...some great songs and some not so incredible but the good songs were enough to make it rate highly. The title track is particularly great, and "Away From The Numbers", "Bricks And Mortar" and "Art School" aren't far behind. The Modern World was my favorite, especially the US release with "All Around The World", "In The Street, Today", "Here Comes The Weekend", "Life From A Window" and "The Combine". I suspect that during my lifetime I've played this more often than any other record; it appeals on so many levels that it's almost always worth putting on. By the time of Setting Sons, the Jam were big stars and the record isn't punk at all, but it's still got a pile of great tracks, especially if you get the US copy with "Strange Town", but "Eton Rifles", "Thick As Thieves" and "Private Hell" are powerful, too.

THE JOLT
The Jolt (Polydor)
Proof that timing is everything...if these guys had put this record out in 1979 they'd have hit the crest of the mod movement and probably been as big as Secret Affair or the Chords, if not the Jam, but instead they put it out at the beginning of 1978 as their career was running down. But it's really a pretty strong mod punk hybrid that's musically as powerful as a lot of the early Jam stuff although the lyrics don't measure up. Still, other than the Jam and Chords, I reckon the Jolt as the best mod band of the late 70s...really good tuneful tracks with lots of energy and a real raw edge to it.

JOY DIVISION
Closer (Factory)
If a band starts a new direction, can they be blamed if those that follow all run off the edge of a cliff? Joy Division pioneered this depressing, pre-suicidal style of music which others managed to commercialize by toning down the guitars, turning up the synthesizers, and schmaltzing up the vocals. It certainly isn't a punk record, but it's an important one in understanding how the punk ethic twisted into a boring, stale mass of synthesizer bands. Joy Division definitely conveyed an emotion in their music, but their more successful imitators totally overlooked it and unfortunately dragged masses with them...you can still see them today with their gothic getups and their Smiths bumperstickers.

KILLING JOKE
Killing Joke (Malicious Damage)
Just about the only industrial band worth listening to in my book, and judging from the number of fans you used to see at hardcore punk shows in the mid 80s with Killing Joke stenciled on their leather jackets I'm not the only punk fan who thinks so. On this lp Killing Joke sounds like a grinding factory pounding out machine parts with a hammering, precision rhythm and soulless singing. This is another pioneering record that set a trail for a new kind of band, and as for Joy Division, hundreds wrecked it later.

THE LURKERS
Fullham Fallout (Beggars Banquet)
If you're sick of trendsetters and just want some old time ramalama punk rock with great singalong tunes, this is your ticket. ZigZag magazine used to rave about these guys, but nobody else seemed to catch on to how great they were...they're just another Ramones cop for sure, but they really do it well; right up there with the Undertones. The Lurkers' strong point is chorus hooks with lots of cool "oh-oh" backings. This lp is by far their best with production that really makes the guitar kick. It's sloppy and amateurish, but that's what makes it so great. Hey, Beggars Banquet, do you remember when you actually released records like this one?

MAGAZINE
Secondhand Daylight (Virgin)
Magazine were Howard Devoto's band after he left the Buzz****s...for some reason Devoto is regularly given vast amounts of credit for the fact that the Buzz****s were as good as they were, but I dunno why; his efforts outside of the Buzz****s didn't come close. Magazine had a few really good songs, and it's tempting to pick their first lp over this one because it has "Shot By Both Sides", Magazine's best. But I think Secondhand Daylight is more representative of what Magazine was about...sort of moody, sinister songs. Even on the great, poppy, "Rhythm Of Cruelty", the underlying lyric is unsettling, and on "Permafrost" it becomes a full on horror show. Magazine were another band that tried to figure out how to use synthesizers, and they also weren't too successful at it. Their best songs are the ones with the synth at the back.

THE MEKONS
The Quality Of Mercy Is Not Strnen (Virgin)
The Mekons are still around, though I haven't heard anything they've done for a long time so I don't know if they are remotely like they used to be. But they sure were clever bastards back when this came out. The cover has a monkey at a typewriter, and he almost types out the first line of the famous "mercy speech" from Shakespeare's Merchant Of Venice. There's a similar amateurish quality to the Mekons themselves...they sound like the Lurkers trying to imitate Gang Of Four...yobbish singing, muddy production, choppy playing, but the result is somehow really good. The songs are pretty spastic, but they're also really interesting and hold up to repeated listens quite well. It's not a major league punk record, but it's a pretty decent one.

THE MEMBERS
At Chelsea Nightclub (Virgin)
1980 The Choice Is Yours (Virgin)
Two brilliant records, these. I don't know how many people I convinced with the Members feature I wrote a few issues back, but these guys are killers. A superficial listen will leave you mostly with an impression of Nicky Tesco singing, and he's got a loutish ****ney voice that's punk personified. But a few more listens and you'll begin to take note of a couple of things. First off, this is a world class band musically, and they're playing some really complicated songs that shift tempos and switch back and forth from reggae to rock and hammering hard to subtle and soft. Then the lyrics will catch you; they're both humorous and insightful at the same time. The Members manage to have it both ways; they've got punk energy but they've got mainstream proficiency and they can be complicated without compromising their great songs. After these two albums they lost it, but I've played both these records year in and year out and I always love 'em.

999
Separates (UA)
There are many people who think Nine Nine Nine were one of the great punk bands. I'm not one of them...they had some really fun songs like "Nasty Nasty", and live they were pretty entertaining the time I saw them, but they always struck me as though they'd just as soon play something else if it was popular. "Homicide" from this lp, which was about their most well known song, was pretty close to disco, but there's plenty of other catchy ones here, like "Tulse Hill Night", "Out Of Reach" or "Let's Face It" (which continues "The boy can't make it with girls!"). Singer Nick Cash has a sort of affected, high pitched snarl when he wants to emphasize a point, but when the band sings straight verses or chorus parts with backing vocals they can have a nice punk pop sound that's a lot like the Boys.

THE ONLY ONES
Special View (Epic)
Actually, as I've said before, if I had to pick one Only Ones record, I'd take the Peel Sessions lp, but I think for this purpose it's only fair to take one that came out in the period when they were active. This record was released in the US and it's kind of a compilation of the tracks from their first two UK lps that Epic thought were their best. They came pretty close to being right, too. The four best Only Ones songs are here..."Another Girl Another Planet", "Lovers Of Today", "Out There In The Night" and "You've Got To Pay". These guys were rather old farts to be considered punks, but they sure latched onto the new style and put together some great loser songs. This stuff's about halfway from power pop to Johnny Thunders, if you need to pin it to a style. There's lots of great tasty guitar chunks and cool rocking songs. Yeah!

RADIATORS FROM SPACE
TV Tube Heart (Chiswick)
First Irish punk band to release an lp? U2? Get serious! Stiff Little Fingers? Getting warm, but not as warm as if you nuzzled up to the Radiators From Space, who released this lp in 1977...the fourth lp on the indie Chiswick label. The music is sort of glitter punk stuff...the bass motors up and down while the guitar plays these T Rex type chords. This record is another widely ignored one, but I think it's full of classics like "Television Screen", "Prison Bars", "Roxy Girl" or "Blitzin At The Ritz" to name just a few. After this their record company tried to make 'em into power poppers, which they failed miserably at.

RADIO BIRDMAN
Radios Appear (Sire)
I hardly think much needs to be said about this one. If you've bought more than one issue of Noise For Heroes and haven't heard Radios Appear then no amount of preaching is going to help...it's the record that spawned a zillion Detroit punk-metal bands, almost none of whom come close. When you listen to this, you should imagine what it would sound like if it was produced by Rob Younger knowing what he knows about how to use a studio now. Despite the muddy sound it's still loaded with great songs filled with tough guitars, tougher vocals and unlimited energy. Aces.

THE RAMONES
The Ramones (Sire)
Leave Home (Sire)
Rocket To Russia (Sire)
Road To Ruin (Sire)
It's Alive (Sire)
There's how many dozen Ramones lps at this point? I've lost count. But this first batch were all the ones I think you need; after this the band started to sound like they didn't really know what to do with themselves in the studio, but through these five each new one was an improvement. The Ramones and Leave Home seem fairly slow now, but at the time they were about the most rocking records you could buy. Rocket To Russia was the Ramones really letting out their surf music roots to the max, and then on Road To Ruin (my fave of all of them) they got a super hard and tight sound that really burns. Though never released in the US, It's Alive is great since it shows the Ramones where they were best when they were best; all their best stuff done live.

THE REAL KIDS
The Real Kids (Red Star)
The Real Kids were one of the best bands ever to come out of Boston, and if only they'd cut their hair they'd probably have been ten times as well known. But in a day when hippies were totally disreputable, there's one of 'em on the cover with hair half way down his chest, which probably discouraged a fair segment of the potential audience for this one. Too bad; it's got great songs with a timeless quality. They've got that punk energy but a more roots rock and roll flavor that makes them fit in almost any period...unlike say a Chelsea lp, which couldn't have come out at any time other than 1977 to 1981, if you didn't know that the Real Kids lp came out in 1977 you might have guessed 1989 as well as 1969. John Felice has a great power pop voice and there's a pile of classic guitar rock songs to back him up.

THE REZILLOS
Can't Stand The Rezillos (Sire)
Mission Accomplished But The Beat Goes On (Sire)
One of the rare Scottish punk bands to make it on any level, the Rezillos played a brilliant brand of cartoonish punk rock with a sixties day-glo feel. They had two great singers in Fay Fife and Eugene Reynolds, and the male/female vocal blend worked great on all their songs. Added to that is some strong and fat guitar playing and lots of rippling bass. These are their only two lps, and the second is a live lp done to finish off their record company obligations, but both steam with great, catchy songs about zany topics like flying saucers or girlfriends loved for their sculptures.

RICH KIDS
Ghosts Of Princes In Towers (EMI)
Despite all the hoopla about Sid Vicious, it was Glen Matlock who was the Sex Pistols bass player for most of their career, and he made some big contributions to their sound, writing "Pretty Vacant" among other things. He got kicked out, allegedly for saying he liked the Beatles, and formed the Rich Kids with some former members of the glam pop band Slik, including Midge Ure, who later went on to make an ass of himself in Ultravox. But the one Rich Kids lp is a real kick of stomping power pop. The production is a little murky, but the guitars are still strong and there's a pile of great songs, like the title track, "Hung On You", "Cheap Emotions", "Young Girls" or "Rich Kids".

TOM ROBINSON BAND
Power In The Darkness (Harvest)
Nobody ever talks about this band but I consider this to be one of the greatest records that came out in the late 70s and I can't figure out why nobody else does. Robinson is a bit of an opportunist...his previous band Cafe Society was a pretty mild folky outfit and since the early 80s he's gone through the post-punk Sector 27 and then into some really revolting lounge type stuff, so I don't pay attention to him anymore, but this one lp is a big kick in the butt. You have to put yourself in the period...England was in a bit of a shock as they were finally realizing that they were falling off the world stage into hard times from which they wouldn't emerge for a long time. It's probably worse now than it was then, but now the expectations have diminished, too. Back in 1977 there were constant warnings about England going up in riots everywhere and police crackdowns and all that, and Robinson put it right out there in his lyrics along with some strong music. The words to songs like "Winter Of 79" sound a little funny now...the song was written in 1977 from the perspective of a guy looking back on 1979 from the future, and none of the stuff happened, but you have to try to put yourself in the context in which it was written. Anyway, "Long Hot Summer", "Up Against The Wall" and "Don't Take No For An Answer" are as good as it gets. Get the US copy...it's got an extra ep with a batch of UK single sides on it.

THE RUTS
The Crack (Virgin)
Another band that I don't think got the credit they deserved...the Ruts made some intense music which they played with a high degree of musicianship and without forgetting that good songs and energy are most important. No pop band here; these guys blended reggae with furious punk. Although it would've been great to have both sides of their first single on this, it still has a pile of ace tracks like the classic rage of "Babylon's Burning", "Something That I Said" and "Back Biter", all of which are killer guitar blasts. Then there's great punk-reggae stuff like "Jah Wars"...so much more real than anything bands like the Police did in those days.

THE SAINTS
I'm Stranded (Sire)
Eternally Yours (Sire)
With Radio Birdman, the Saints complete Australia's best known pair of punk bands. The Saints got more credit early in their career, although Birdman are most touted now. There's been all kinds of music under the Saints banner over the years, but these first two lps, recorded with Ed Kuepper still in the band, are by far the best. I'm Stranded is full on guitar punk with simple, burning blasts. It's basic, primal, animalistic punk rock at its best. The second lp has similar songs but more complex production. Amazingly it integrates horns into the sound without losing punch a bit...just try "Know Your Product" for size if you have any doubts. Both these have stood up to hundreds of plays on my stereo and still sound great.

THE SCIENTISTS
Pink Album (EMI Custom)
I'm not going to pretend that I was hip enough to have picked up this record when it came out...few outside of Australia can make that claim. All I've got's a tape of it, but the fact that it was obscure or limited doesn't mean it didn't happen or doesn't count. This record features the Scientists playing punk pop before they started into their subsequent noisy grunge stuff. It's got a pile of really cool songs filled with teen angst. My favorite is the rocking "Walk The Plank", but they all connect great...kind of like a Perth version of the Radiators From Space but with better singing.

SEX PISTOLS
Never Mind The Bollocks (Warner Bros)
In 1977 the music papers were full of stuff about all these punk bands in Britain...problem was I was in school in rural western Massachusetts and the network for imports wasn't at the point where shops out there got such bizarre objects as imported singles, so it was months before I heard the 12" single of "Anarchy In The UK" owned by the guy who ran the best record shop in town (the only band I could imagine sounding like that was the Who), and even longer before the Pistols lp was actually out on a US label so I could bring a copy home. I remember when I first played it I could only listen to about three songs because it seemed so intense, and then for the next few weeks I'd play a couple tracks a day until finally I understood what was going on and I went wild about it. Playing it now it's got this feeling of total familiarity and the songs almost feel like pop songs to me. A lot of this is due to what came after and how much wilder bands got in between, but at the time there was nothing like it. But although it's no longer that fast, it still has great songs and huge guitar to go with Johnny Rotten's great singing. All other Pistols lps are **** rip-offs except the Flogging A Dead Horse record, which has some great single B sides and half the songs off Bollocks, so be sure you get the right one.

SHAM 69
Tell Us The Truth (Sire)
The First The Best and The Last (Polydor)
Sham always wanted to be the Sex Pistols, and they aped the sound pretty well...fat guitars, ****ney singing and the whole bit. Tell Us The Truth is their first rabble rousing lp...one studio side, one live side. It starts off with a great bit with Jimmy Pursey's mom giving him a hard time and then bursts into the great "Family Life". From there on it doesn't let up much anywhere...just basic full on power chording punk rock. The First The Best And The Last is a UK compilation of singles spanning their career, and it's a great collection from the riotous first single "Borstal Breakout" through "Angels With Dirty Faces" and all the rest. Not subtle but great fun.

THE SKIDS
Scared To Dance (US Virgin release)
Here's another one where you want to get the US copy because they've included some better single tracks that improve it from the UK release. The Skids were Scotsmen and included Stuart Adamson, who later fronted Big Country. But the Skids were primarily driven by Richard Jobson, who at the time of this record was only 18 years old but had already read piles of books about the two world wars, and the Skids songs all reflected it with militaristic topics and music with a beat that sounds like troops marching at double time. For the most part, Jobson's throaty singing is totally unintelligible, but songs like the powerful "Into The Valley", "Sweet Suburbia", "Charles" and the driving "Melancholy Soldiers" still make a statement. This isn't really punk music, but it certainly rocks along...unusual stuff to be sure.

THE SLITS
Cut (Antilles)
I'm still not sure about the Slits, but there's enough people who swear by 'em that I figure I better give 'em a mention. The Slits were three women with drummer Budgie (later of Siouxie And The Banshees), and they played a sort of off beat, twisted reggae. To me the drummer is the best part of the band, and he's really only guesting. I suspect that more than a little of the affection people have for this group lies in the photo of band members as nude mud wrestlers on the sleeve. Still, they're yet another part of the bizarre mix of different musical styles that all got tagged as punk in the late 70s, so they deserve a mention.

THE SPECIALS
The Specials (Two Tone)
Hard to believe how many different movements splintered off of punk in the years from 1978 to 1981. As soon as bands found that being branded as punk was a ticket to commercial oblivion they began to do anything to try to come up with a different angle and a different label. Many of these turns sucked, but some were surprisingly good. This Specials lp marked the advent of ska in the consciousness of people other than hardcore fans of Jamaican music. It's still the best ska record I've ever heard, thanks in no small part to the production keeping things rough and rugged. The slicked up followers like the Beat or Madness just didn't wash. There's a pile of tracks on this that I can listen to any time and get a kick out of 'em.

STIFF LITTLE FINGERS
Inflammable Material (Rough Trade)
Nobody's Heroes (Chrysalis)
Go For It (Chrysalis)
I love all the Stiff Little Fingers lps (prior to their re-union, anyway), though the live ones are redundant and not really necessary. SLF steadily got more produced and pop sounding as their career went on, but they never reached a point where it was too slick...right up to their last record it was still really good. But there's no topping Inflammable Material, their incendiary first record and one of those rare records with such intensity that you really feel it when you first hear it. It's the best kind of punk...catchy melodies played with a gut level kick, loud, raw guitars, inspired singing/snarling and words that really have something to say. Nobody's Heroes has some great songs, too, but not that same level of fire that the first one had. Go For It also has a batch of terrific tracks, some more pop tasting stuff, but there are still songs to remember for a long time.

THE STRANGLERS
Rattus Norvegicus (A&M)
No More Heroes (A&M)
Black and White (A&M)
I really hated the Stranglers when they first came out because with their cheesy keyboards they sounded like the Doors. After letting them sink in though I found that the comparison didn't stick. If one of these records came out today there's no way you'd call it punk, but we were confused then, and since this stuff had a dark power to it and felt kind of threatening, there wasn't anything else to call it. It sure wasn't the Bee Gees. Even though the swirling keyboard based sound isn't my favorite, there's a lot of really good songs across these three records, songs that I'd have to rate among the classics of the time, like "Sometimes", "Hanging Around", "Grip", "Something Better Change", "No More Heroes", "Tank" or "Sweden" to name the absolute highlights.

SWELL MAPS
Collision Time (Rough Trade)
You wanna know how to make a noisy record sound good? Use Collision Time as a text book. It's a greatest hits lp (there's been another one since), which is kind of funny since they never had anything close to a hit. But it's coherent and powerful by comparison to their regulation lps with great songs like "Read About Seymour", "Ammunition Train", "Midget Submarines", "Let's Build A Car" and "Blenheim Shots". It's wildly amateurish with all kinds of odd sounds and off key singing plus guitars that are barely in tune but somehow it succeeds brilliantly. It's a unique and indescribable sound, and you'll just have to trust me on this one and go for it.

TALKING HEADS
Talking Heads 77 (Sire)
More Songs About Buildings and Food (Sire)
Another band that really isn't punk but got called one because they played CBGBs. But they were certainly new wave, and though it was arty, there was a lot to recommend about these first two records. I thought 77 was pretty accessible and easy to latch onto, but More Songs actually has more staying power and sounds better today. "Psycho Killer" was one of my fave songs in 1977...it's the typical quirky David Byrne sort of track, but they were doing it better on these two records than they ever did later.

Continued........last one.......:D

[dreamkillers]

TELEVISION
Marquee Moon (Elektra)
This is another one I feel obligated to mention though I personally don't like it. Television were another CBGBs band and are sort of like the dark side of the Talking Heads...where the Heads are art mixed with pop, Television is arty but brooding and dark. The songs are long and sprawling and don't give you much to hang onto.

JOHNNY THUNDERS
So Alone (Real)
Johnny Thunders is high on the list of underground heroes these days and lots of bands cover his songs with the Heartbreakers but I've never heard anyone cover anything he did on this record, and there's some great songs here. The band changes around from track to track, including at various times former Sex Pistols, Only Ones, Humble Pies and Thin Lizzies. It's Thunders at his blazing guitar best, and when he's paired with Steve Jones at his prime there's an extra kick that his Heartbreakers stuff couldn't even match. The best track is the scathing "London Boys", which counters the Pistols "New York" and contains some hysterical lines about Johnny Rotten needing someone to help to the bathroom. There's also the best cover of "Pipeline" ever done, the killer loser song "You Can't Put Your Arms Around A Memory" and the blistering "Leave Me Alone" (which is really the Dolls "Chatterbox" with a new name). There's more variety here than the Heartbreakers would have shown, but it doesn't hurt a bit.

UK SUBS
Recorded 1979-1981 (Abstract)
I suppose this is unfair since this is a "best of" record that goes well past the 70s, but the early stuff is well represented here, and if I want to listen to a UK Subs record, this is what I'll put on. The Subs were a second generation punk band, and they dropped a lot of the pop tendencies of the first wave and went for a really tough, hard sound that alternates between hardcore and stuff that's like the hardest Ramones music. This record is consistently solid...if you like one track you'll like 'em all, I suspect.

THE UNDERTONES
The Undertones (US copy) (Sire)
Punky pop at its finest, Ireland's Undertones led with their best and never came close again. They were real young and easily influenced by the music press and they tried to mature faster than they really knew how, so it was all downhill from this. But here, singing about everyday stuff like girlfriends and summer vacations that they really related to, they've captured teenage magic in a bottle. There's one track after another of these incredibly catchy songs. I only regret that it doesn't have "You Got My Number", which was their best single ever, otherwise it'd be heaven.

THE VIBRATORS
Pure Mania (CBS)
V2 (Epic)
The Vibrators got a lot of **** for being too old for punk (they were in their early 20s at the time, so it seems like a pretty ridiculous charge now), but they sure figured out how to play it great right out of the chute. Both of these records are among my all-time faves. I give the edge to Pure Mania...it's a little more pop sounding and has some great tracks like "Petrol", "Yeah Yeah Yeah", "London Girls" and "Whips And Furs". Of course V2 has "Pure Mania" (that's right, "Pure Mania" isn't on the lp with that title), "Flying Duck Theory" (a great radio song) or "Destroy", so choosing is tough. But they've both got that cool chugging 4/4 drum sound and you don't lose either way.

THE WIPERS
Is This Real (Park Avenue)
Why didn't the Wipers make more of a splash? 'Cos they came from Oregon and nobody's ever come from there, I suppose. Throughout all the 80s they put out one cool record after another and people barely noticed. This one started it all and it's the best because it's raw and hard and intense as all hell. The guitar used to remind me of Wire on Pink Flag because it's so raw, but the Wipers played much more rocking stuff. Their songs are shorter and more pop structured here than they later became, but they also burn like crazy. Greg Sage's unique guitar style is present right from the start...I could pick him out of any lineup of gunslingers in a minute.

WIRE
Pink Flag (Harvest)
Chairs Missing (EMI)
154 (EMI)
The ultimate art-punk band, Britain's Wire debuted in 1977 with Pink Flag, a pile of songs built like no one had built them before...they started here, they ended there, and they didn't cover any ground twice. Songs lasted less than three minutes, two minutes, even less than one minute. Guitars were brutally distorted to where they sounded like distant cannon fire. It worked brilliantly. Then came Chairs Missing in 1978. It's got some Pink Flag styled songs, but there's also some songs with a twisted kind of pop feel to them...songs that feel soft on top but hard underneath. Then there's 154, by which time the sound had shifted fairly dramatically to where there were keyboards and synthesizers among the guitars and the singing dropped its harsh edge in a lot of places. But it's still compelling. But the first was the best...a classic that has to be in every collection.

X
Los Angeles (Slash)
X looked like a punk rock band and usually sounded like one and they were accepted like one, but I think they were more just a full on rock and roll band. Out of LA, they had traditions that went to rockabilly and fifties rock and roll like Elvis and Jerry Lee Lewis (listen to that Chuck Berry riff at the start of "Johnny Hit And Run Pauline". The singing combo of Exene and John Doe always made me think of Jefferson Airplane, and they always sang and didn't scream like most of their US punk rock compatriots, but the music doesn't match at all. It's Ramones styled punk rock with a darker feel and these fifties references thrown in. The result has held up well over time...it's still an urgent, meaningful record to listen to.

XRAY SPEX
Germ Free Adolescents (EMI)
I probably said it all in the review of that bootleg single they just did, but anyway it's worth hearing this record to get the full picture. Some of these songs are kind of fun, but this type of punk music sure didn't wear well...the strident screechy vocals just grate and they sound pretty silly today. This would be a cool album to mine for covers, though, since there are some good tunes that are ruined in the performance. The basic concept behind XRay Spex was a rebellion against the plasticness of life by parody, hence song titles like "Art-i-ficial", "Genetic Engineering", "Plastic Bag" and "The Day The World Turned Dayglo". The result comes off like a high school essay that's trying too hard to be creative.

XTC
White Music (Virgin)
Somebody told me they saw XTC on MTV not too long ago...I can believe it because they were getting pretty bad when I last heard them, but they had a good start with some good snappy power pop. It still has that sort of quirky keyboard feel that renders it a little suspect in my mind, and I'll bet that Oingo Boingo has all their early records, but still I've got room for songs like "Radios In Motion", "Statue Of Liberty" or "Set Myself On Fire". But if you can't find it, don't have a cow 'cos it's not the most important record in this list.

THE YACHTS
SOS (Polydor)
Here's where I get my big rant on the Yachts in. This record is killer power pop and what's wrong with everybody that they can't see it? The Yachts have got this cool cheesy keyboard sound with a nice chunky guitar underneath and in addition to being catchy tunes, their songs have hysterically funny lyrics, like "Yachting Type", where the guy's girl runs off with a yachtsman, or "Mantovani's Hits", which hypothesizes a rock and roll world where Elvis records hadn't been hits but Mantovani's had, or "Box 202", where the guy's girl is killed in an airplane crash so he puts out a classified ad to look for a replacement. The others deal with romance in equally oddball ways, but always rocking and always catchy as hell. My brother got to see these guys open for Elvis Costello in Seattle in 1979 but when Costello hit here all we got was the Rubinoos. It's not fair, I tell you. The second Yachts lp is lame, so make sure you get this one.

OK, well now with last issue and this one you've got the complete roundup of essential 70s punk lps and singles, so don't come bugging me anymore to write articles about these old bands. It's not the Trouser Press Guide To New Wave Records, after all.



and that's just a small sample of what makes up a pretty comprehensive site on bands from Australia/NZ, Continental Europe, Scandinavia, UK/Ireland and North America amongst many other things............the article on the Saints in the Australia/NZ section makes for very interesting reading including the on-going feud between Ed and Chris............

As Molly used to say.....Do Yourself a favour.................:D


PS......Anyone that has a copy of Clinton Walker's Inner City Sounds that they'd like to part with I'd love to hear from you........

[GhostofJimJess]

Brilliant thread guys. In fact, if it wasn't one o'clock in the morning, on the night after New Year's Eve I'd try and make some more worthwhile addition to your posts.

Reminds me of the many big nights spent through the Eighties treading the sticky, beer-soaked carpets of the POW, the Seaview, The Venue, The Corner, The Great Brit, The Tote, Prospect Hill, The Tropicana Club, The Old Greek, The Punters, The Evelyn, The Club, The Creole Club, The Palace, Melb Uni Union nights and many, many more.

I'll go back and have a real good read of all of your posts when not so bleary-eyed ....

[Leaping Lindner]

That is some list of singles and albums. Pretty hard to argue against him on any points although a little odd that the Dead Kennedys get two singles mentioned and no album. I'd rate "Fresh fruit for rotting vegetables" as one of the great punk LPS of all time and I'm sure I'm not Kay Cottee there!But still that's a pretty small point and the rest of the list(s) is REALLY well done.Good to see Birdman,The Saints and The Scientists get a mention.
Dreamkillers do you have the CD compilation "THE BEST PUNK ALBUM IN THE WORLD..........EVER"? Of the singles mentioned it features
"Gary Gilmore's Eyes" by The Adverts
"Ready Steady Go" by Generation X
"Blank Gneration" by Richard Hell
"Shot by both sides" by Magazine
"Another girl another planet" by The Only Ones
"Public Image" by PIL
"Stranded" by The Saints
"Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols
"Into the valley" by The Skids
"Alternative Ulster" by Stiff little fingers
"Oh bondage up yours" by X-Ray Spex
"(Get a)Grip(On yourself)" by The Stranglers

As well as tracks by The Jam,Iggy Pop,XTC,Boomtown Rats,Buzzkocks and Jonathan Richman amongst others.If you don't have it......GET IT IMMEDIATELY and that's an order! :D

It may be deleted so if you have trouble let me know as I'm reasonably confident Melbourne has more 2nd hand CD shops than Darwin.

[Wally]

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
Brilliant thread guys. In fact, if it wasn't one o'clock in the morning, on the night after New Year's Eve I'd try and make some more worthwhile addition to your posts.

Reminds me of the many big nights spent through the Eighties treading the sticky, beer-soaked carpets of the POW, the Seaview, The Venue, The Corner, The Great Brit, The Tote, Prospect Hill, The Tropicana Club, The Old Greek, The Punters, The Evelyn, The Club, The Creole Club, The Palace, Melb Uni Union nights and many, many more.

I'll go back and have a real good read of all of your posts when not so bleary-eyed ....

Cosmic Psychos live at the POW early 90's. Great fun. The Great Brittain in Richmond was a great little venue in the late 80's/early 90's. Saw many bands there, always good value. The Greek restuarant around the corner (forget the name) demanded we grab a souvlaki after a bands first set, then catch the band's second set reeking of garlic and beer. Often after a night at the 'Brit' we'd tumble up the road and catch another band at The Swan. Sadly, last time i went to the Great Brittain (about 2 years ago), i was disappointed to find it had been turned into a bloody great loungeroom.


----------------------------------------------------------
EFC: We Hate You Too

[knuckles]

Stranglers - excellent

Gary Numan?

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
That is some list of singles and albums. Pretty hard to argue against him on any points although a little odd that the Dead Kennedys get two singles mentioned and no album. I'd rate "Fresh fruit for rotting vegetables" as one of the great punk LPS of all time and I'm sure I'm not Kay Cottee there!But still that's a pretty small point and the rest of the list(s) is REALLY well done.Good to see Birdman,The Saints and The Scientists get a mention.
Dreamkillers do you have the CD compilation "THE BEST PUNK ALBUM IN THE WORLD..........EVER"? Of the singles mentioned it features
"Gary Gilmore's Eyes" by The Adverts
"Ready Steady Go" by Generation X
"Blank Gneration" by Richard Hell
"Shot by both sides" by Magazine
"Another girl another planet" by The Only Ones
"Public Image" by PIL
"Stranded" by The Saints
"Anarchy in the UK" by the Sex Pistols
"Into the valley" by The Skids
"Alternative Ulster" by Stiff little fingers
"Oh bondage up yours" by X-Ray Spex
"(Get a)Grip(On yourself)" by The Stranglers

As well as tracks by The Jam,Iggy Pop,XTC,Boomtown Rats,Buzzkocks and Jonathan Richman amongst others.If you don't have it......GET IT IMMEDIATELY and that's an order! :D

It may be deleted so if you have trouble let me know as I'm reasonably confident Melbourne has more 2nd hand CD shops than Darwin.
Sounds like an order to be obeyed........:D

Dead Kennedy's should have been on the list IMO......but by the comments on the singles I guess the 'yank' who runs this site doesn't rate them.........
California Uber Alles/Man With The Dogs (Fast)
Holiday In Cambodia/Police Truck (Cherry Red)

When I first heard "California Uber Alles" I thought I'd finally found a band to match the fury of the Pistols, since they had already split. Alas, subsequent Kennedy's records leaned more towards the thrashy or experimental and lacked the power of these two. By the way, if you only have these on lp, you really haven't heard them, because both these singles have far superior versions.
I'm presuming this is the CD........

http://www.sanity.com.au/coverscan/440000/435700.jpg

Disk 1
1. Anarchy In The Uk - Sex Pistols
2. Ever Falling In Love (With Somone You Shouldn't've) - The Buzz****s
3. Teenage Kicks - The Undertones
4. Into The Valley - The Skids
5. Babylon Is Burning - The Ruts
6. The Sound Of The Suburbs - The Members
7. All Around The World - The Jam
8. Another Girl, Another Planet - The Only Ones
9. The Passenger - Iggy Pop
10. Making Plans For Nigel - Xtc
11. Peaches - The Stranglers
12. Sex & Drugs & Rock & Roll - Ian Dury & The Blockheads
13. (I'm) Stranded - The Saints
14. Denis - Blondie
15. 2-4-6-8 Motorway - Tom Robinson Band
16. Milk And Alcohol - Dr. Feelgood
17. Lookin' After No. 1 - The Boomtown Rats
18. Christine - Siouxsie And The Banshees
19. Identity - X-ray Spex
20. C30, C60, C90 - Bow Wow Wow
21. Public Image - Public Image Ltd
22. My Way - Sid Vicious

Disk 2
1. God Save The Queen - Sex Pistols
2. Gary Gilmour's Eyes - The Adverts
3. Top Of The Pops - Rezillos
4. Dancing The Night Away - The Motors
5. What Do I Get? - The Buzz****s
6. Jilted John - Jilted John
7. I Am The Fly - Wire
8. New Race - Radio Birdman
9. Roadrunner - Jonathan Richman & The Modern Lovers
10. White Punks On Dope - Tubes
11. Blank Generation - Richard Hell & The Voidoids
12. Marquee Moon - Television
13. Psycho Killer (Live) - Talking Heads
14. Stop Your Sobbing - The Pretenders
15. Is She Really Going Out With Him? - Joe Jackson
16. Ready Steady Go - Generation X
17. (Get A) Grip (On Yourself) - The Stranglers
18. Shot By Both Sides - Magazine
19. Alternative Ulster - Stiff Little Fingers
20. Eighties - Killing Joke
21. Money - Flying Lizards
22. Kung Fu International - John Cooper Clarke


How did Joe Jackson's 'Is She Really Going Out With Him?' make it onto the CD.............


It looks like it's still available through Sanity Music - they stunned me by having 795 cd's available under their punk section (under the Alternative section from the main menu) which would be the best I've seen so far - they've just got my first order.........:D


Also found this CD at the same place......it caught my attention with the band Peter & The Test Tube Babies who I remember from my high school days.........loved their tunes 'Elvis Is Dead' and (Death To) Disco......but I'll leave talking about them til another post..........

VERY BEST OF PUNK & DISORDERLY

A brilliant 40 track 2 CD set of the original and probably the most successful ever punk rock compilation series. The CD features contributions from bands such as the Dead Kennedys, Angelic Upstarts, Uk Subs, Vice Squad, Peter & The Test Tube Babies, One Way System, Atv, The Drones and many many more! The first ever Punk & Disorderley compilation was released in 1982 and was a UK national top 50 hit. Since then two other compilations have been released to great acclaim. The CD also features an enhanced track by Peter & The Test Tube Babies taken from the successful "Punk & Disorderley" DVD.

Track Listing:
Disk 1
1. Vice Squad - Last Rockers
2. The Adicts - Viva La Revolution
3. Disorder - Complete Disorder
4. Peter & The Test-tube Babies - Banned From The Pub
5. Red Alert - In Britain
6. Blitz - Someone's Gonna Die
7. Dead Kennedys - Kill The Poor
8. The Partisans - Police Story
9. The Insane - El Salvador
10. Abrasive Wheels - Army Song
11. Chaos U.K. - 4 Minute Warning
12. Outcasts - Mania
13. G.B.H. - City Baby Attacked By Rats (Live)
14. The Expelled - Government Policy
15. One Way System - Stab The Judge
16. Court Martial - Gotta Get Out
17. Action Pact - London Bouncers
18. The Dark - The Masque
19. Violators - Gangland
20. Channel 3 - I've Got A Gun
Disk 2
1. The Enemy - Fallen Hero
2. Riot Clone - Death To Humanity
3. The Wall - Hobby For A Day
4. Erazerhead - Shellshock
5. A.T.V. - How Much Longer?
6. The Drones - Corgi Crap
7. Suburban Studs - I Hate School
8. Newtown Neurotics - Kick Out The Tories
9. U.K. Subs - Police State
10. The Samples - Dead Hero
11. Violators - Summer Of '8
12. Angelic Upstars - Woman In Disguise
13. Urban Dogs - New Barbarians
14. The Ejected - Have You Got 10P
15. Chron Gen - Outlaw
16. Vice Squad - Resurrection
17. One Way System - Suicide Bag
18. Disorder - More Than Fights
19. Abrasive Wheels - Viscious Circle
20. Peter & The Test-tube Babies - Run Like Hell
21. Peter & The Test Tube Babies - Moped Lads (Extra Bonus Enhanced Track)


As for second hand music shops in Darwin - we have the same number of them as Birdsville does.........:D.............a couple of the second hand bookshops have a few CD's but nothing spectacular. We have a couple of pretty good CD shops although I must say I buy most CD's online as it works out a lot cheaper -


For the Kim Salmon fans check out this page in the site detailing his career so far, an interview and some great pics....... Kim Salmon talks about THE SCIENTISTS, THE SURREALISTS and THE REST OF his amazing career (http://www.nkvdrecords.com/kimsalmon.htm)

[Leaping Lindner]

DK trust me you won't be disappointed it is a great compile. Really good at parties as well (just set and forget), we were actually playing at a friends New Years party. One of the "kiddies" there wanted us to play Emimen he was promptly told to "Shut up,listen and LEARN":D
The Joe Jackson inclusion is a little odd. If you'd put a JJ track on it I'd have gone for "I'm the man" also I always thought of Flying Lizards as nothing but a gimmick band but that's IMO. Would have prefered the studio version of "Psycho Killer" as well but hey they are small complaints!

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
DK trust me you won't be disappointed it is a great compile. Really good at parties as well (just set and forget), we were actually playing at a friends New Years party. One of the "kiddies" there wanted us to play Emimen he was promptly told to "Shut up,listen and LEARN":D
The Joe Jackson inclusion is a little odd. If you'd put a JJ track on it I'd have gone for "I'm the man" also I always thought of Flying Lizards as nothing but a gimmick band but that's IMO. Would have prefered the studio version of "Psycho Killer" as well but hey they are small complaints!

Well I think I've managed to find that for a bargain at $14.95.

Now the next CD recommendation...........which of the following Buzz****s CD's do you recommend - I saw you recommend Operators Manual in another thread.......

Finest - approx $10

1 I Don't Mind
2 Whatever Happened To?
3 Oh ****
4 No Reply
5 Moving Away From The Pulsebeat
6 Real World
7 Just Lust
8 Walking Distance
9 Sixteen Again
10 Nothing Left
11 Late For The Train
12 Ever Fallen In Love (With Someone You Shouldn't 'Ve?)
13 Lipstick
14 Harmony In My Head
15 Something's Gone Wrong Again
16 You Say You Don't Love Me
17 I Don't Know What To Do Wtih My Life
18 I Believe

Singles Going Steady (remastered) - the original only has 16 songs as indicated with *- approx $22 for each

1 ORGASM ADDICT *
2 WHAT DO I GET? *
3 I DON'T MIND *
4 LOVE YOU MORE *
5 EVER FALLEN IN LOVE (WITH SOMEONE YOU SHOULDN'T'VE) *
6 PROMISES *
7 EVERYBODY'S HAPPY NOWADAYS *
8 HARMONY IN MY HEAD *
9 YOU SAY YOU DON'T LOVE ME
10 ARE EVERYTHING
11 STRANGE THING
12 RUNNING FREE
13 WHATEVER HAPPENED TO? *
14 OH **** *
15 AUTONOMY *
16 NOISE ANNOYS *
17 JUST LUST *
18 LIPSTICK *
19 WHY CAN'T I TOUCH IT *
20 SOMETHING'S GONE WRONG AGAIN *
21 RAISON D'ETRE
22 WHY SHE'S A GIRL FROM THE CHAINSTORE
23 AIRWAVES DREAM
24 WHAT DO YOU KNOW

Operators Manual - approx $23

1. Orgasm Addict
2. What Do I Get?
3. I Don't Mind
4. Autonomy
5. Fast Cars
6. Get Your Own
7. Sixteen
8. Fiction Romance
9. Love You More
10. Noise Annoys
11. Ever Fallen in Love?
12. Operator's Manual
13. Nostalgia
14. Walking Distance
15. Nothing Left
16. E.S.P.
17. Promises
18. Lipstick
19. Everybody's Happy Nowadays
20. Harmony in My Head
21. You Say You Don't Love Me
22. I Don't Know What to Do With My Life
23. I Believe
24. Are Everything
25. Radio Nine

or should I just go the whole hog and get the 3 CD collection for $45 called Product......

1. Fast Cars
2. No Reply
3. You Tear Me Up
4. Get On Our Own
5. Love Battery
6. Sixteen
7. I Dont Mind
8. Fiction Romance
9. Autonomy
10. I Need
11. Moving Away From The Pulsebeat
12. Real World
13. Ever Fallen In Love (With Someone You Shouldntve)
14. Operators Manual
15. Nostalgia
16. Just Lust
17. Sixteen Again
18. Walking Distance
19. Love Is Lies
20. Nothing Left
21. E S P
22. Late For The Train
23. Paradise
24. Sitting Around At Home
25. You Say You Dnt Love Me
26. You Know You Cant Help It
27. Mad Mad Judy
28. Raison Detre
29. I Dont Know What To Do With My Life
30. Money
31. Hollow Inside
32. A Different Kind Of Tension
33. I Believe
34. Radio Nine
35. Orgasm Addict
36. What Do I Get
37. Love You More
38. Promises
39. Everybodys Happy Nowadays
40. Harmony In My Head
41. Whatever Happened To
42. Oh ****
43. Noise Annoys
44. Lipstick
45. Why Cant I Touch It
46. Somethings Gone Wrong Again
47. Breakdown (Live)
48. Fast Cars (Live)
49. Noise Annoys (Live)
50. Moving Away From The Pulse Beat (Live)
51. Fiction Romance (Live)
52. What Do I Get (Live)
53. Whatever Happed To (Live)
54. Times Up (Live)
55. Are Everything
56. Strange Thing
57. What Do You Know
58. Why Shes A Girl From The Chainstore
59. Airwaves Dream
60. Running Free
61. I Look Alone

which includes the songs from the Spiral Scratch EP which is only available on import.

[Leaping Lindner]

$ 14.95 for "The best punk album.....ever" is BRILLIANT value. Cost me $30-$35 when it first came out.

As for you Buzzkocks dilemma DK I'd forgotten about the "Product" boxed set. I didn't realize you could still get it. When I first saw it (many years ago) I passed on it as I already had 2-3 Buzzkocks CDS , and it was more than $45.
If you don't have any Buzzkocks and want a "good smattering" for your collection I'd go for the boxed set. It's very good value and to get the Spiral Scratch tracks is an added bonus. I got that by itself when it was first released on CD(late 80's) and it was $10+ then. It got deleted soon after so I'm a little peeved to learn it's been re-released. Oh well that's the nature of the beast
:D
As a footnote to the overall theme of this thread. Many years back a mate of mine had a T-Shirt that(done by the Sub Pop label) that said "DON'T SUCK CORPORATE C*CK". Would love to get one of those these days:cool:

[FattyLumpkin]

Sorry, I've come into this thread a tad late. Almost brought a tear to the eye reading of all the old Adelaide haunts & bands. God - the Findon - had completely slipped my memory. Never went to PIL at Thebby (can't recall why??). Saw the Clash there one extremely hot night. George Thorogood was always good value there too.

Who mentioned Plastic Bertrand - a throwback to days long gone (actually the Presidents didn't disgrace themselves with Cest pla pour moi).

My big punk/new wave music recollection was going to see Jimmy and the Boys at the Arkaba many years back. Very sick bunch of individuals - Iggy Jones & Joylene Hairmouth. So sick I raced off and purchased their album (which I recently sold - a story told in another thread). To see Ignatious Jones strut his respectable jazz stuff now........... if only people knew of his roots.

Another name - Dave Warner - not punk, but his shows at Adelaide Uni with "Half time at the footy" etc were legendary. Actually most of the O-week shows at Uni back them days were pretty good too music wise, always an eclectic mix.

Some good names thrown up in this thread - Motorhead (Ace of Spades was my fave), with their description of groupies as "dodgy boilers" or something similar - loved it. Setting Sons with The Jam. The Dead Kennedy's, The Saints etc etc - all fondly remembered.

Interesting to note just how many Clash fans are out there after Joe Strummers death. Sort of reminded me just how many people of my vintage became Sex Pistols fans during the "Filthy Lucre" tour. Funny, cos at the time most of my friends looked down there noses at punk.

But I digress...

Cheers,

Fatty

[McAlmanac]

Originally posted by FattyLumpkin
Who mentioned Plastic Bertrand - a throwback to days long gone (actually the Presidents didn't disgrace themselves with Cest pla pour moi).

My big punk/new wave music recollection was going to see Jimmy and the Boys at the Arkaba many years back. Very sick bunch of individuals - Iggy Jones & Joylene Hairmouth. So sick I raced off and purchased their album (which I recently sold - a story told in another thread). To see Ignatious Jones strut his respectable jazz stuff now........... if only people knew of his roots.


Plastic Bertrand - Ca Plane Pour Moi. Classic trash.

I saw Jimmy and the Boys at Monash Uni when I was a teenager - they were supporting Jo Jo Zep and the Falcons. Very entertaining - Ignatius was spitting on people up the front when he sang. He was very athletic, like he had formal dance training. Loved when the baby doll's head exploded off into the audience.

Can I say that I like The Stems? A greasy pop (to use the term generically) sort of act.

[Santos L Helper]

Thought it was time I added my 2c to this fantastic thread.

Some of you know of my history in the punk scene from Adelaide where I have been fortunate enough to have played with some of the Aussie bands mentioned here and seen some (and played with a couple of) of the internationals through my trips 'OS' on band watching jaunts. I also count myself lucky to have been able to call people such as Tim Yohannon (RIP), Martin Sprouse and David Hayes who were running "Maximum Rock N Roll" friends since 1987.
I won't try to list a whole piule of important events or bands (right now) but rather give a short list of the bands that I believe were real punk, or were true to what I believe punk was meant to be.

Europe: "Stiff Little Fingers"
These Irish guys played with a rage that I had never heard before and helped take punk to new heights of anger and agression through superb song writing.

USA: "Bad Brains"
In my opinion the greatest punk band ever. Their first release on "Roar" was the most brutal thing I had ever heard. A band that was always on the back-foot due to them being a 'black' band. I still remember Doug Thomas waving this cassette at me one day in the very early 80's and telling me this band would blow me away. Although Doug told me a lot of things that never came true, he was spot on with this one. If you haven't heard the first release by "Bad Brains", I recommend you find this and be prepared to wonder how you ever missed them before.

Australia: "The Saints" & "Radio Birdman" (tied)
As has already been mentioned "The Saints" one of the most influential punk bands ever. Lost me a bit with later releases but their first album was just pure brilliance.
"Radio Birdman" were an amazing band and just blew me away when I first heard them. The fact that so mny of their songs are still considered punk classics is an indication of just how good they were.
Other Notables:

Europe: BGK (Holland)
Upright Citizens (Germany)
Raw Power (Italy)

USA: Dead Kennedys (nearly tied with Bad Brains)
DRI
Minor Threat
Circle Jerks
Black Flag

Australia: Civil Dissident
Scientists
Lime Spider
Celibate Rifles
Where's The Pope? (had to put us in ;))

Remember this is just my opinion and I am more influenced by the bands out of the USA in the late 70's-early 80's. I understand that it was also this legion of bands which helped to take punk into the corporate sector but christ they had some good bands back then.

[Mooster7]

I was given a Black Flag album (and I mean on vinyl). It's the one where the guy is smashing his fist into a mirror. Some guys found it in a record shop and bought it for me soley on the basis that the guy on the cover supposedly looks so much like me, that they thought I had posed for the cover.

Unfortunately, I can't listen to it because I don't have a turntable. Haven't found it on CD. If you say they're good, I believe you. I'll keep hunting. Peace,

Mooster.

[Santos L Helper]

Originally posted by Mooster7
I was given a Black Flag album (and I mean on vinyl). It's the one where the guy is smashing his fist into a mirror. Some guys found it in a record shop and bought it for me soley on the basis that the guy on the cover supposedly looks so much like me, that they thought I had posed for the cover.

Unfortunately, I can't listen to it because I don't have a turntable. Haven't found it on CD. If you say they're good, I believe you. I'll keep hunting. Peace,

Mooster.


Mooster,

That album is called "Damaged" and it is very raw punk rock and includes the classics, 'Six Pack & 'TV Party'. A great album, and if you look like that then I'll definitely drink with you in KC.

cheers.

[Mooster7]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
A great album, and if you look like that then I'll definitely drink with you in KC.



Well everyone said I was that guy. I didn't get it, as the photo is dark and you can only see part of the dude. I was also sporting a military haircut at the time. Now, I'm trying to single-handedly bring back the mullet. ;)

BTW my fridge is always full of beer.

[dreamkillers]

http://www.limespiders.com/i/82-84/photo19.jpg

The Lime Spiders Official Site (http://www.limespiders.com/main.html)

"This could be the best time-warp style '60s garage revival I've ever heard. The Lime Spiders seem to be more interested in re-creating Sixties garage mania than updating it. I never thought I'd hear a psychedelic slime band more hard core than Green Fuzz, but here they are." - Jello Biafra, Dead Kennedys


It was in the wake of pioneering Australian guitar bands like Radio Birdman, the Saints and the Lipstick Killers that the LIME SPIDERS burst onto the local alternative rock scene of the 1980s with a sound that almost defied description. Screaming vocals backed by raucous fuzz-tone guitar riffs and pile driving drumbeats announced the arrival of a mutant strain of acid punk that almost bordered on heavy metal. With the release of their debut single in 1983, ‘25th Hour’, the Spiders launched a garage rock scene to rival the original 1960s garage-punk onslaught that threw up such primal entities as the Creatures, the Missing Links, the Elois, the Black Diamonds and the Lost Souls.

Without question, the Lime Spiders formulated a sound and style that has remained influential and relevant to this day. Indeed it was not only Birdman, the Saints and the original ‘Ugly Things’ bands, but also the Stooges and such hallowed American ‘Nuggets’ bands as the 13th Floor Elevators, the Moving Sidewalks, the Haunted, the Sonics and the Seeds that fanned the fire in the belly of the Spiders. Jello Biafra, lead singer with the Dead Kennedys, was even moved to announce that the Spiders were "the only psychedelic slime band more hardcore than the Green Fuzz".

Within the space of a couple of years, the Spiders had issued one monumental single after another - ‘25th Hour’, ‘Slave Girl’, ‘Out of Control’, ‘Weirdo Libido’, ‘My Favourite Room’, ‘Volatile’ - classics one an all. In fact ‘Slave Girl’, fuelled by one of the most ferocious acid-punk guitar riffs of all-time, remains a bona fide garage rock classic on a par with the Saints’ ‘(I’m) Stranded’ or the Missing Links’ ‘Wild About You’. It went on to become one of the best selling independent singles of the 1980s. The Spiders were in good company throughout the 1980s with other like-minded bands the Scientists, the Screaming Tribesmen, the Hoodoo Gurus, the Beasts of Bourbon, the Eastern Dark, the Celibate Rifles and the New Christs. They even ventured overseas, touring to international acclaim by sharing stages with their heroes Iggy Pop, the Ramones and Public Image Ltd. Such was the Spiders influence that US power-poppers the Goo Goo Dolls even covered ‘Slave Girl’.

With the Spiders music being unavailable on CD for many years, Raven Records has assembled the first significant career overview of these wild and untamed garage dwellers. All their timeless tracks are included - ‘Slave Girl’, ‘25th Hour’, ‘Out of Control’, ‘Weirdo Libido’, ‘My Favourite Room’, ‘Action Woman’, ‘Volatile’, ‘Nine Miles High’ - plus rare B-sides and EP cuts previously unavailable on CD. This abundantly compiled 26-track, 76-minute package comes complete with 12-page booklet and detailed liner notes that brings the whole Spiders saga to life again. With the worldwide resurgence of interest in garage rock, this is a timely release. But forget the Hives, the Strokes and the White Stripes - this is the real garage rock deal.



The Spiders Year by Year:


1979 Lime Spiders first appearance included Mick Blood (vocals), Darryl Mathers (guitar) and rugby league great Eric Grothe on guitar.

1981 Lime Spiders start doing gigs in Sydney. Played a gig with Sunnyboys, Scientists, Hoodoo Gurus. Lineup - Mick Blood (vocals), Richard Jakimyszyn (guitar), Darryl Mathers (guitar), Dave Guest (bass), Jeff Cleary (drums) and Bill Gibson (backing vocals).

1982 Temporary break-up. Reformed, won band competition at a pub in Surry Hills, the prize was a recording contract with Green Records ("25th Hour" single). Dave Guest leaves, replaced by Warwick Gilbert for recording, with Steve Rawles on drums.

1983 Two new members - Tony Bambach (bass) & Richard Lawson (drums). "Slave Girl" single released (on Citadel Records).

1984 Richard Jakimyszyn becomes a 'part-time' member. Gerard Corben joins on guitar.

1985 Last recordings for Citadel. Lime Spiders break up - Mick Blood tours Europe, remaining members play on in other bands - The Sparklers, The Cruel Sea, Adolphus, and The Warm Jets .

1986 "Weirdo Libido" single recorded for "Young Einstein" film. Mick Blood returns from overseas, the Lime Spiders reform, with 3-album contract with Virgin Records. Work starts on "The Cave Comes Alive" - the first full album.

1987 "The Cave Comes Alive" album released, on Virgin. Lime Spiders tour U.S.A.

1988 Release of "Volatile", their second album (on Virgin). Release of "Headcleaner" album (on Virgin), a compilation of earlier material, including "Slave Girl", "Weirdo Libido" and "Out Of Control".

1990 "Beethovens Fist", an album of new material, released on Virgin.

1997 Live concert recorded at Esplanade Hotel, St. Kilda, Melbourne, 25-1-97 - tapes in the Vault.

2002 Release of "Nine Miles High", followed by their first tour in five years.


Lime Spiders Releases:

25th Hour - 7"EP (1983)
1-2-5 (R. Brugess/J. Peter) Control
CAN'T WAIT LONG (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn)Control
THAT'S HOW IT WILL BE (R.Tanner) Control
25TH HOUR (M. Blood/D. Mather) Control

Mick Blood - Vocals
Dave Guest - Bass (non recording)
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Daryl Mather - Guitar
Richard Jakimyszyn - Guitar
Steve Rawles - Drums
Bruce Tatham - keyboards on side 1 tracks 1 & 2
Bill Gibson - Backing Vocals on side 1 track 2 & side 2 track 1
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios, Sydney - November '82.
Produced by Rob Younger.
Green Records - BTS972


Slave Girl - 7" single (1984)
SLAVE GIRL (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Control
BEYOND THE FRINGE (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Control

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Richard Jakimyszyn - Guitar
Richard Lawson - Drums
Recorded at Central Recorders, Sydney - March '84.
Produced by Tom Misner & Lime Spiders.
Citadel Records - CIT008


Slave Girl - mini LP (1985)
SLAVE GIRL (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Control
THAT'S HOW IT WILL BE (R. Tanner) Control
25TH HOUR (M. Blood/D. Mather) Control
BEYOND THE FRINGE (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Control
1-2-5 (R. Brugess/J. Peter) Control
CAN'T WAIT LONG (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Control

Recording & lineup details - see 25th HOUR & SLAVE GIRL 7"
BIGTIME RECORDS 6000-1-B


Out Of Control - 7" single (1985)
OUT OF CONTROL (R. Lawson/M. Blood/G. Corben/T. Bambach) Virgin Music Australia
SAVE MY SOUL (Christopholous/Kelman) Control

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Gerard Corben - Guitar
Richard Lawson - Drums
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios
Produced by Rob Younger.
Citadel Records - CIT015


Weirdo Libido - 7" single (1986)
WEIRDO LIBIDO (M. Blood/D. Mather) Virgin Music Australia
HERE WITH MY LOVE (M. Blood/D. Mather) Virgin Music Australia

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Richard Jakimyszyn - Guitar
Gerard Corben - Guitar
Richard Lawson - Drums
Recorded at EMI Studio 301, Feb '86.
Produced by Cameron Allen.
VOZ012 1986 Virgin Records Ltd.


Weirdo Libido - 12" single (1987)
WEIRDO LIBIDO (M. Blood/D. Mather) Virgin Music Australia
HERE WITH MY LOVE (M. Blood/D. Mather) Virgin Music Australia

Recorded at EMI Studio 301, Feb '86.
Vocals recorded at the Wireless Set.
Mixed at Albert Studios.
Produced by Cameron Allen.
Engineered by Guy Gray.

I WAS ALONE (The Exotics) Control
MR SOUL (J. Spelazza/C. Ramsey) Control
TIME OF DAY (B. Tashian) Control
MY FLASH ON YOU (A. Lee) Control

Recorded live at Carmens Miranda Sydney Sept. 1985.
Mixed at EMI Studio 301.
Engineered by Guy Gray.
Cover artwork & photography - Cody Anderson.

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Richard Jakimyszyn - Guitar
Gerard Corben - Guitar
Richard Lawson - Drums
VOZ 01212 1987 Virgin Records Ltd.


My Favourite Room - 7" single (1987)
MY FAVOURITE ROOM (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
BLOOD FROM A STONE (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Virgin Music Australia

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Gerard Corben - Guitar
Richard Lawson - Drums, backing vocals
Additional backing vocals on My Favourite Room, Bill Gibson
Keyboards on Blood From A Stone, Chris Abrahams
Recorded at Paradise Studios, Sydney
Produced and Engineered by David Price
Assistant engineer, Mark Roberts
VOZ 016 1987 Virgin Records Ltd.


My Favourite Room - 12" single (1987)
MY FAVOURITE ROOM (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
BLOOD FROM A STONE (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Virgin Music Australia
HEARD HER CALL MY NAME (L. Reed) RCA Music

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Gerard Corben - Guitars
Richard Lawson - Drums, backing vocals
Additional backing vocals on My Favourite Room, Bill Gibson
Keyboards on Blood From A Stone, Chris Abrahams
Vocals on Heard Her Call My Name, Tony Bambach
Cover art, Jim Wylie
Recorded at Paradise Studios, Sydney
Produced and Engineered by David Price
Assistant engineer, Mark Roberts
VOZ 01612 1987 Virgin Records Ltd.


The Cave Comes Alive - LP (1987)
MY FAVOURITE ROOM (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
ARE YOU LOVING ME MORE (Tucker-Mantz) Copyright Control
IGNORMY (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
NSU (J. Bruce) Chappell
JUST ONE SOLUTION (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
BLOOD FROM A STONE (M. Blood-R. Jakimyszyn) Virgin Music Australia
JUST ONE SOLUTION (Reprise) (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
ACTION WOMAN (W. Kendrick) Copyright Control
ROCK STAR (A. Bambach-M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
JESSICA (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
SPACE CADET (A. Bambach-M. Blood-G. Corben) Virgin Music Australia
THEORY OF THIRA (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia

MICK BLOOD - lead vocals
TONY BAMBACH - bass/vocals/piano on JESSICA
RICHARD LAWSON - drums/percussion/vocals
GERARD CORBEN - guitars
Chris Abrahams - Hammond organ
Jim Zembis - bouzouki on THEORY OF THIRA
Bill Gibson - backing vocals on MY FAVOURITE ROOM and JUST ONE SOLUTION
Recorded at Paradise Studios, Sydney, 1987.
Engineered and produced by David Price.
Assistant engineers: - Keryn Fenney, Tony Espie (EMI)
All tracks mixed at Paradise Studios except
MY FAVOURITE ROOM (Mixed at EMI)
Special thanks to Laurie Dunn (Virgin Records),
Al Goddard (Management), Rick O'Brien (Booking),
Mick Anze (F.O.H.), Cody Anderson (Spiritual
redemption), all previous crew and band members.
VOZ 2006 1987 Virgin Records Ltd.


Just One Solution - 7" single (1987)
JUST ONE SOLUTION (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
DRIP OUT (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia

MICK BLOOD - lead vocals
TONY BAMBACH - bass/vocals
RICHARD LAWSON - drums/percussion/vocals
GERARD CORBEN - guitars
VOZ 018 1987 Virgin Records Ltd.


Space Cadet - 7" live promo single (1987)
SPACE CADET
JUST ONE SOLUTION
ACTION WOMAN
STONE FREE

Recorded LIVE on the AAV Mobile at the Sydney Cove Tavern, September 1987 by David Richards and Peter Blyton.
Mixed at Glebe Studios by David Richards with the V.B.'s.
7-99393 © 1987 Virgin Records America Inc.


Jessica - 7" single (1987)
JESSICA (M. Blood) Virgin Music (new version)
Produced by Peter Blyton
Recorded at Glebe Studios
Engineered by Adam Quaife
SPARKS (P. Townshend) Essex Music
Recorded live at Sydney Cove Tavern by Peter Blyton and David Richards

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Gerard Corben - Guitars
Richard Lawson - Drums, Backing Vocals
VOZ 023 1987 Virgin Records Ltd.


Jessica - 12" single (1987)
JESSICA (M. Blood) Virgin Music (new version)
Produced by Peter Blyton
Recorded at Glebe Studios
Engineered by Adam Quaife
SPARKS (P. Townshend) Essex Music
LONG WAY TO GO (Bruce) Boosey & Hawkes
Recorded live at Sydney Cove Tavern by Peter Blyton and David Richards

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Gerard Corben - Guitars
Richard Lawson - Drums, Backing Vocals
VOZT 023 1987 Virgin Records Ltd.


Lime Spiders EP - 12" EP (1988)
TOO CLOSE TO THE SUN (M. Blood) Virgin Music
JAGGED EDGE (R. Lawson) Virgin Music
THE ODYSSEY (R. Lawson) Virgin Music
WHEN I WAS YOUNG (Burdon/Weider/Briggs/McCulloch/Jenkins) Control

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Gerard Corben - Guitars
Richard Lawson - Drums, Backing Vocals
Produced by Peter Blyton
Track 1 recorded and mixed at Glebe Studios & Power Plant Studios by Peter Blyton & Adam Quaiff
Track 2 recorded at Glebe Studios and mixed at EMI 301 Studios by Greg "Hendo" Henderson
Track 3 recorded at Glebe Studios and mixed at EMI 301 Studios by Peter Blyton & Adrian Bolland
Track 4 recorded live for ABC TV Sydney, March 1988 Engineered by Neil Sandback
VOZT 049 © 1988/1989 Virgin Records Ltd.


Headcleaner - LP (1988)
25TH HOUR (M. Blood/D. Mather) Control
CAN'T WAIT LONG (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Control
SLAVE GIRL (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Control
OUT OF CONTROL (R. Lawson/M. Blood/G. Corben/T. Bambach) Virgin Music Australia
THAT'S HOW IT WILL BE (R. Tanner) Control
1-2-5 (R.Brugess/J. Peter) Control
BEYOND THE FRINGE (M. Blood/R. Jakimyszyn) Control
SAVE MY SOUL (Christopholus/Kelman) Control
Nos 1, 4, 5 and 8 produced by Rob Younger.
Nos 2, 3, 6 and 7 produced by Tom Misner and Lime Spiders.

WEIRDO LIBIDO (M. Blood/D. Mather) Virgin Music Australia
HERE WITH MY LOVE (M. Blood/D. Mather) Virgin Music Australia
HEARD HER CALL MY NAME (L.Reed) Control
DRIP OUT (M. Blood) Virgin Music Australia
I WAS ALONE (The Exotics) Control
MR SOUL (J. Spellazza/C. Ramsey) Control
TIME OF DAY (B. Tashian) Control
MY FLASH ON YOU (A. Lee) Control
Nos 1 and 2 produced by Cameron Allen.
Nos 3 and 4 produced by David Price.

VOZ 2012 1988 Virgin Records Australia Pty. Ltd.


Voltile - 7" single (1988)
VOLATILE (M. Blood/G. Corben) Virgin Music
WORKING FOR A LIVING (M. Blood/G. Corben) Virgin Music

MICK BLOOD - lead vocal
GERARD CORBEN - all guitars
TONY "CHIEF" BAMBACH - bass + backing vocals
RICHARD LAWSON - drums, percussion + backing vocals
Additional vocal harmonies: PHIL GRAHAM, NANCY KIEL
Producer and Ring Master - Peter Blyton
Recorded by Peter Blyton, David Richards and Adam Quaiff at Glebe Studios Sydney Australia, February 1988
Mixed by Greg "Hendo" Henderson and Peter Blyton at EMI Studio 301 March 1988.
VOZ 032 1988 Virgin Records Australia Pty. Ltd.


Volatile - 12" single (1988)
VOLATILE (VIOLATION MIX) (M. Blood/G. Corben) Virgin Music
VOLATILE (M. Blood/G. Corben) Virgin Music
WORKING FOR A LIVING (M. Blood/G. Corben) Virgin Music

MICK BLOOD - lead vocal
GERARD CORBEN - all guitars
TONY "CHIEF" BAMBACH - bass + backing vocals
RICHARD LAWSON - drums, percussion + backing vocals
Additional vocal harmonies: PHIL GRAHAM, NANCY KIEL
Producer and Ring Master - Peter Blyton
Recorded by Peter Blyton, David Richards and Adam Quaiff at Glebe Studios Sydney Australia, February 1988
Mixed by Greg "Hendo" Henderson and Peter Blyton at EMI Studio 301 March 1988.
VOZ T 032 1988 Virgin Records Australia Pty. Ltd.


Volatile - LP (1988)
VOLATILE (M. Blood/G. Corben)
CAN'T HEAR YOU ANYMORE (R. Lawson - lyrics/G. Corben)
THE ODYSSEY (R. Lawson)
LOT TO ANSWER FOR (M. Blood)
THE CAPTOR AND THE CAPTIVE ONE (T. Bambach)
MY MAIN ATTRACTION (M. Blood)
THE OTHER SIDE OF YOU (M. Blood)
DEAF, DUMB AND BLIND (M. Blood)
STRANGE KIND OF LOVE (T. Bambach)
UNDER MY UMBRELLA (M. Blood)
WON'T FALL IN LOVE (M. Blood)
TEST PATTERN (M. Blood)

MICK BLOOD - lead vocal
GERARD CORBEN - all guitars
TONY "CHIEF" BAMBACH - bass + backing vocals
RICHARD LAWSON - drums, percussion + backing vocals
Additional vocal harmonies: PHIL GRAHAM, NANCY
KIEL and BRIGID O'DONOHUE (Track 1 Side 1 only)
(All titles Virgin Music)
Recorded by Peter Blyton, David Richards and Adam Quaiff at Glebe Studios Sydney Australia, February 1988
Producer and Ring Master - Peter Blyton
Mixed by Greg "Hendo" Henderson and Peter Blyton at EMI Studio 301 March 1988.
VOZ 2015 1988 Virgin Records Australia Pty. Ltd.


The Other Side Of You - 7" single (1988)
THE OTHER SIDE OF YOU (M. Blood) Virgin Music
CAN'T YOU READ MY MIND (M. Blood) Virgin Music

Mick Blood - Vocals
Tony Bambach - Bass
Gerard Corben - Guitars
Richard Lawson - Drums, Backing Vocals
Produced by Peter Blyton
Mixed by Greg Henderson
VOZ 034/VOZT 034 1988 Virgin Records Ltd.


Beethoven's Fist - LP (1990)
SCENE OF THE CRIME
CHERRY RED
REAL THING
9 MILES HIGH
I GET OFF AT THE NEXT STOP
THIS TIME
SILENT PARTNER
OLD DOG NEW TRICKS
THREE WISE MEN
MISS PERFECT STRANGE

Mick Blood - vocals
Gerard Corben - guitars
Richard Lawson - drums, vocals
Phil Hall - bass
Special thanks to Mark Wilkinson - additional guitar

All songs written & arranged by Lime Spiders
Produced & engineered by Kevin "Caveman" Shirley
Mixed by Michael Brauer
Recorded at Rhinoceros Rich & Sun Studios Sydney
Mixed at Carrabee Studios, Hollywood
Fun After All / CD After 7 records - Originally released 1990 on Virgin Records.


Cherry Red - 7" single (1990)
CHERRY RED
MR. BIG MOUTH

Mick Blood - vocals
Gerard Corben - guitars
Phil Hall - bass
Richard Lawson - drums, backing vocals
Special thanks to Mark Wilkinson - additional guitar
VOZ 088 1990 Virgin Records Ltd.


Blood Sugar Sex Lawson - EP (1991)
Blood Sugar Sex (Lawson) 6-track CD EP compilation .


Lime Spiders Live - LP (1997)
MY FAVOURITE ROOM
1-2-5
SILENT PARTNER
OLD DOG, NEW TRICKS
AIN'T NOTHIN' TO DO
I WAS ALONE
THE DEAD BOYS
THIS TIME
OUT OF CONTROL
JUST ONE SOLUTION
SOCIETY OF SOUL
TEST PATTERN
TIME OF DAY
9 MILES HIGH
SAVE MY SOUL
WEIRDO LIBIDO
ACTION WOMAN
SLAVE GIRL

Lineup -
Mick Blood - vocals
Gerard Corben - guitars
Dave Sparks - guitars
Tony Bambach - bass, backing vocals
Richard Lawson - drums, backing vocals
Recorded at the Esplanade Hotel,
St. Kilda, Melbourne, Australia.
Mixed by Oyster (Midnight Oils' mixer)

You can also download these songs (MP3 format) that were recorded on the night and are only available on the bands website (click the link at the start of this post)
YOU BURN ME UP AND DOWN (2.01 mb)
CHILDREN OF THE SUN (1.78 mb)
CAREER OF EVIL (2.93 mb)


Nine Miles High - LP (2002)
25th HOUR
THAT'S HOW IT WILL BE
1-2-5
SLAVE GIRL
BEYOND THE FRINGE
OUT OF CONTROL
SAVE MY SOUL
WEIRDO LIBIDO
TIME OF DAY (Live)
MY FLASH ON YOU (Live)
MY FAVOURITE ROOM
BLOOD FROM A STONE
JUST ONE SOLUTION
DRIP OUT
JESSICA (Single version)
ACTION WOMAN
VOLATILE
THE OTHER SIDE OF YOU
CAN'T YOU READ MY MIND
THE CAPTOR AND THE CAPTIVE ONE
MY MAIN ATTRACTION
TOO CLOSETO THE SUN
CHILDREN OF THE SUN
CHERRY RED
MR BIG MOUTH
NINE MILES HIGH


The Lime Spiders also appear on the following compilations-----

Do The Pop - 2xCD (2002)
50 track compilation of Australia's best garage/punk bands
including Radio Birdman, Hoodoo Gurus, Died Pretty, New Christs, etc
3 Lime Spiders tracks:
25th Hour
Slave Girl
Out Of Control


Born Out Of Time - CD (2002)
22 track compilation of the cream of Australian indie music 1979-1988 including The Hitmen, Screaming Tribesmen, Beasts Of Bourbon etc
1 Lime Spiders track:
Slave Girl


http://www.limespiders.com/i/85-86/photo7.jpg

[Blues_Brat]

http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=932367778&category=

Anyone remember this one?

http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_210fe49d87e57df4ae12705e7973016e/i-1.JPG

[Leaping Lindner]

Originally posted by Blues_Brat
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=932367778&category=

Anyone remember this one?

http://ebay2.ipixmedia.com/abc/M28/_EBAY_210fe49d87e57df4ae12705e7973016e/i-1.JPG

Remember it??? I've got it. Can't believe its currently $70(OZ). I use to know where there was about two dozen mint copies.

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
Remember it??? I've got it. Can't believe its currently $70(OZ). I use to know where there was about two dozen mint copies.

Well if any are still about I'd be interested.......


What about this one from 1985.......

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_oasis.jpg

[dreamkillers]

This one should bring back some memories from those of us who were out and about in Adelaide during the 80's and 90's..........some great bands supported by a great record label.


Greasy Pop Records 1980 - 1991


This article originally appeared in NFH #18 in the winter of 1990

THE BEGINNING - THE DAGOES

Although Greasy Pop is Adelaide's best known indie label, it's hardly the sort of corporate empire that you might expect when you think about a record label. It consists of one man, Doug Thomas, who has been single mindedly pursuing his goal of making Adelaide noise available on record for ten years now. Listening to Doug talk about the bands he releases gives you a sense of total commitment...this is a man who has put everything he has into his label. He's passionate about his bands, maybe even more than the bands are about themselves: "I guess I look for a spark of originality. And if there's no originality there, at least ****ing enthusiasm; belief in what they're doing. Because if they don't believe in it, I can't believe in it." Asked if there were any records he'd just as soon have not done, he pauses and thinks for a while, then replies: "Nah, **** that, I liked it all! I guess I've learned from every record I've released, so I can't dismiss any of them."

As you'd expect from the name Doug has chosen for his label, pop is a key element that he looks for in bands, "the sense of melody...if there's melody there. If there's a tune I remember, I want to go back and listen to that band again. The Lizard Train certainly do that to me. The Screaming Believers affect me that way. The Mice affect me that way. Philisteins, Twenty Second Sect. Every song Ian List has ever written."

"I seem to have a strong liking for power pop...sure I do. I guess those two Big Star albums would still be a couple of my favorite records. Fleshtones, Roman Gods especially. Dwight Twilley's Sincerely album. And all that wild Aussie **** that I was hearing in the 60s; the Easybeats, The Master's Apprentices. Not forgetting the Stones, the Kinks, the Pretty Things. Beach Boys. More power to them. That's all melodic stuff. That's what I listen for. Tunes with intelligent lyrics played by people that have no respect for guitars. The mention of guitars sends my left hand into a claw...it's probably been three months since I've picked up my Les Paul Jr. I miss playing. I've just used that one guitar now for quite a few years. I think I bought it in 1981, and it's probably been used on every guitar part I've played except acoustic stuff on every record since then. A 1959 Gibson Les Paul Junior. My very favorite instrument."

"I guess the last time I've used it probably would have been for the round of U.V.'s gigs. The band played twelve gigs from just before Christmas 88 through till May this year. Ian List is presently back in London, but they're still talking about coming out here in summer. Maybe December or January, and starting up another U.V.s. Whether it happens or not, I don't know. It's up to him. Be he's a man I enjoy playing with. I like playing his songs. He's got a sense of melody. And he likes rock and roll. Hard and fast."

Greasy Pop started in 1980 as an outlet for records by the Dagoes, a band that featured Thomas and Ian List on guitar. Thomas had been playing guitar for two years at this point, and was just getting to where he felt like he knew what he was doing and the band split up. But before they cashed it in for good, they wanted to leave some kind of a legacy to show that the Dagoes had been there, so they went into a studio and spent a day recording the "We Sell Soul" single, which cost them about six hundred dollars. "It was pretty rough", says Doug. "I still grimace when I listen to that one, but it's a nice first try."

So Greasy Pop Records came about through Doug Thomas's efforts to document the Dagoes. He had been holding a day job working in second hand record shops for about ten years, and had saved enough money to be able to finance the record. The single came out in May 1980 and it sold about six or seven hundred very quickly, mainly in Adelaide, because the Dagoes were starting to draw an audience before they'd fallen apart.

It was about three months after the band had split that the single was recorded, and it seemed that everyone involved had really missed playing, even though the Dagoes were never a regular gigging band; they'd play in spurts and then take two or three months off. So the band reformed and began gigging once again, and once the money from "We Sell Soul" had been recovered, it was just poured straight into more recording for the Dagoes, along with the gig money that the Dagoes were making.

The reformed Dagoes sported a new lineup, adding a new bass player, two female singers, moving the drummer to keyboards and shifting another member to drums full time, resulting in a nine piece band. This aggregation spent a long, long time and quite a bit of money trying to record what eventually became the double ep "It's You". It was meant to be simply for the Adelaide people who had supported the band. There were only 300 copies made, and only about 50 of these ever got out of Adelaide.

Doug picks up from here: "So quite a bit of money was lost on the Dagoes double ep, but most of it Dagoes money, so I just carried on like nothing happened as the Dagoes collapsed in turmoil around what had become Greasy Pop Records, which was certainly no great output, only looking at Dagoes at the time. And the third release was another entirely different lineup of the Dagoes. The only common thread in the Dagoes was Tony Ryan, Johnny Tomato, myself and the Turk."

"So Greasy Pop put out one record in 1980, one in 1981 and one in 1982. As I said, it was formed, and was an apt description, of the Dagoes music. Greasy Pop. They were a pop band; Tony Ryan was writing pop songs. And I don't know about you, but I was brought up listening to pop music. Call it what you like, rock and roll, rockabilly...all that ****, it's all rock and roll to me, but it's all pop. I kind of get lost with a bit of the extreme noise music. To me there's a tune there, you know? If there's not a tune there, it's not really rock and roll. So a lot of this new experimental stuff leaves me cold. I think if there is a regular thread through all the records I've released, it's that they've got a tune. Pop music, you know."

FINANCIAL CONSIDERATIONS

Greasy Pop used to put out piles of singles, but that's changing now, as Doug has been painfully exposed to the fact that singles don't make money any more, and to remain viable as a label he has to pay attention to the bottom line, painful though it may be. That last single he released directly through Greasy Pop was the Coneheads' "Chewy Chewy", which sold about 1,200 copies. Break even point is about 5,000 for Greasy Pop, so although Thomas likes singles, it's hard for him to afford them now. Fortunately several Greasy Pop bands are licensed through Festival, one of Australia's major labels, and Festival has put out several singles by bands like the Exploding White Mice or Mad Turks. The arrangement is a pressing, promotion, and distribution deal within Australia only, so Greasy Pop retains rights to license overseas, and of course to ensure these records are exported. "Where the hell they get to in America beats me", says Doug. "I'm damn sure there's not many copies of my releases going to America. But the Germans seem to love this ****. Germans, Dutch, French, Greeks, Scandinavians. So I'm almost surviving on that."

"For 1988 I got so far behind that I got day jobs and I'm actually working for Festival Records part time, and working again in a bloody retail record store one day a week, to pay the bills. So Greasy Pop is not making me a living. For a couple of years it sent me further and further into debt. So now I'm trying to get out of that debt and keep releasing records and unfortunately it's going to be very difficult for me to put out seven inch singles. I'd like to do one for the new Twenty Second Sect album. There's a couple of great songs on it, and if I find the spare five or six hundred dollars I'd like to remix a song called "Hey Baby" that's come out on Sympathy for the Record Industry. I'd like to remix that and put it out as the single off the Unexploded album, which should be out in about four weeks. I won't tell you the date today, or you'll catch on that I haven't got a clue when it's coming out. My four weeks seem to stretch for months, but I do hope to get this record out before Christmas."

ADELAIDE - FESTIVAL CITY

"I only release Adelaide music. There's so much talent in this little city that I'll just keep going on Adelaide bands. They're keeping me busy all the time and keeping me in debt. I do get demos from all over the place, but I'm sticking with Adelaide. I believe in the noise that's coming out of this city. There's an incredible number of bands here with a very, very limited venue output for them; there's very few places they can play here. So to be in a band stranded here in Adelaide is really frustrating for any musician who's trying to make a go of it. The only way I could really look at living and playing in Adelaide is for my own enjoyment. I can't see any chance of financial success unless you turn into a covers band and play the beer barns in the suburban venues that are in every city in Australia. But I don't want to play Beatles songs. I always thought Abba was a better pop group. But last week I saw probably the greatest pop group in the universe. The Ramones came to Adelaide for their second visit, supported by the Exploding White Mice, and it was a wonderful night’s entertainment. CJ fits like a glove. He counts to four just like Dee Dee did."

"I don't know what it is about Adelaide that it has almost a concentration of talent. There's a ****load of artists working in this city. It's called "The Festival City" for some reason; there's an Adelaide festival which gets gloated about being similar to the Edinborough arts festival. So it's a kind of arty city. A couple of universities are here and a whole lot of artists. An incredible diversification of musical noise."

THE SPIKES, THE ASSASSINS, THE U.V.s AND IAN LIST

"The records that I'm most proud of through my involvement with have been the production jobs I've done on both The Spikes' Color In A Black Forest and Get That Charge by the Twenty Second Sect. I reckon they're the best sounding records that I've released. Of all the records I've played on, Color In A Black Forest is the one that annoys me the least. it's not really painful for me to listen to that one. I like it...I think it's a well balanced record, and it's a damn good sound that I got out of a ****ty little studio. And I think it was a creative peak for that band, and probably myself...I wrote four songs on it, felt like I knew what I was doing in the studio, and survived the ordeal in two days. I think it was recorded on one day and mixed on the next. So it was done incredibly quickly by four weirdos who worked really well together. As soon as they picked up their instruments it worked. That was the wonderful thing about that band...I enjoyed the couple of years that the Spikes existed."

"I've been playing with Ian List for a while. I think he first came into the Dagoes in 1981, so he was bass player in the Dagoes through 1981 and then came back in 82, or at the end of 81, as the lead guitarist, when the Dagoes turned into a monstrous touring circus, three singers, three guitarists and as many other people as we could cram on stage without rehearsing. So Ian and myself have played together for a long time. I picked him as the singer from the Dagoes and asked him to sing "Kill The Prime Minister", the Assassins single. Which really in a way was the Spikes. I could see the Spikes coming from that. And I was invited to join the Spikes while I was still in the Dagoes, but the Dagoes were falling apart, really, at the end of...god knows...the end of 82 I guess."

"The Spikes...four weirdos that somehow clicked when they started playing music together. We hardly even socialized together...we led our own lives, yet somehow it worked when we played. And I think the inspiration was Ian's songs. He's a very good song writer with a sense of melody and power. And I think that me and him play guitar together quite well; bounce stuff off of each other. We're always moving ahead I think. Ian never likes to look back, and I'm quite happy to go along with that. With the U.V.s I don't think we played any of Ian's old songs. I don't think there were any Spikes songs in there...maybe a few old covers...like "Ain't No Friend Of Mine" and a couple of Lou Reed songs. But Ian keeps looking forward and that's a damn good way of looking at things."

THE PRIMEVILS

"Primevils was kind of the same follow up from the Acid Drops. Very psychotic. They played some of the most fantastic, outrageous gigs that I've ever had the pleasure to witness. Psychotic noise...that kind of sums it up pretty well. Harry Butler said something like "psychedelic pop"...no..."classic Stooges rock with dangerous psychotic influences". Well, even if he didn't say that, that sums 'em up pretty well."

"Primevils...first disco song I released, right..."Whipping Tree" is on Chicken Factory. Have a listen to that one again, Steve, it's a ball tearer. Disco...I'm pretty loose with my musical adjectives. It's all pop to me, remember."

THE EXPLODING WHITE MICE

"I think the highest paid unsigned band in Australia would be the Zep Boys from Adelaide. They're a Led Zep cover band, and they're just note perfect. And as sad as it is, they're a very huge drawing band that's making a ****load of money. Whereas the Exploding White Mice, even though they get adoring crowds out of Adelaide, are lucky to draw two hundred people to a gig here."

"Exploding White Mice I caught early on as well. I think I caught their first or second pub gig. The Spikes were gigging at the time...I saw the Mice and immediately invited them to play with us, and asked them for a song for Oasis In A Desert Of Noise. And they went in to record that one song and it turned into seven. "Down On The Street" and the six tracks that ended up on Nest Of Vipers. So I'm glad that I asked them for a song. They were called "The Ramones Jukebox" when they first started up. A party band. A ****ing wonderful party band."

"They've just changed guitarists again...they're ready to get serious; they’re ready to record their next album, which is going to happen in two parts. They're off to Sydney, up to the Gold Coast and Brisbane in a couple of weeks, and they're touring through until mid December, and then they'll start recording. That string of gigs, two weeks up the east coast, that'll all be recorded on mobile, and we're hoping that half a dozen tracks can be used as one live side for the next album, and they've got six or maybe seven new originals that will be studio recorded in December. I hope it happens at Sound Track Studios where Brute Force and Ignorance was recorded."

"I say that in years to come Brute Force and Ignorance is going to be recognized for the mean mother of a rock and roll album that it is. I understand that it was recorded too loud; everything that went onto tape was distorted, so mixing it was like a salvage job. But it's a ****ing nasty sounding record. Played individually each track stands in its own right, but played together as an album its almost a blur. And people have called it monotonous. I call it a classic. I'm very, very proud of it. I wish I had a bigger involvement in it to ensure that the ****er wasn't recorded too loud and we could have had a cleaner sounding record. Not that I don't mind dirt being in there."

"I think if there's to be a best record I've released, I dunno... Nest Of Vipers, maybe. That's a great record. First time in the studio and they slapped that down...what a great effort. Nest Of Vipers, yeah. Color In A Black Forest, that stands the test of time. And like I said, Brute Force And Ignorance, a lot of people are going to realize in time to come that that's a hell of a record. Call the production lousy, but I reckon it's a beauty."

"Anyway, this new guitarist, Dave Mason, who recorded just the single with them, has been with the band for twelve months, recorded just the last single "Make It" and "Ain't It Sad", but he's in no position to tour; he's holding a day job that he likes, and the Mice are ready to go. The new guitarist is Jack Jacomos. He was in a sort of weird heavy metal glam thrash band called The Lick, and they were most entertaining. Jack plays a Rickenbacker guitar also. And he's kind of a fan, knew all the Mice songs anyway. I think he used to practice them in his bedroom. So he's in. And hopefully if all goes well he records with them on the east coast tour and in the studio. And then he goes to Europe with them through March, April, May of 1990. That's the master plan for the Mice, and I ****ing hope it works, because they're not really surviving in Australia, either. They've been doing it for five years and wondering where the reward is, I guess."

"You know, with Dave Mason being in the Mice for the last year or so, maybe less than a year...his guitar sound reminded me so much of the Primevils, and it was very different, it gave the Mice a different feel altogether. As you can probably pick from the single, yeah, there is some pretty weird guitar stuff on that single. One review I read of it said if this record was to be compared to clothing then "Make It' would be a battered black leather jacket. I thought it was a very nice analogy. The same review said they had the good taste to leave all the out of tune bits in. Both Mason and myself said "What!?" when we read that...there's no out of tune bits in there."

THE LIZARD TRAIN

"Way back in 82, the Dagoes were struggling along on their last legs, and there was this band called Crawling Eye with Chris Willard in it, Martin Bland, could have even been Dave Mason, and I invited them to play as a support band at a Dagoes gig, and they were just wonderful. So we invited them straight back the next week, and over time that turned into the Acid Drops, and I guess I just followed the talent through from there. Chris Willard into the Lizard Train, and Liz eventually getting her own stuff together, with a lot of help from the Lizard Train."

"I'd have to mention the Lizard Train for most satisfaction. These guys are the three most talented people that I've ever come across. They're currently recording The Ride. I believe that you've heard some demos from it...in fact, Sympathy released three demos from it. One of their songs, I couldn't believe the intricate timing they have. I believe the drummer was playing a 6/4 beat, the bass player was doing something else, and Chris was playing 4/4 on the guitar, and somehow singing over the top of that. I'm impressed. I love their songs. Those guys have got a sense of melody, dynamics...they deserve to be huge. I guess The Ride will come out early to mid next year. The earlier the better."

THE TWENTY SECOND SECT

"The Twenty Second Sect, that's a very, very powerful sounding record. I'm pleased with that. I love the drumming on it. Liz's voice is very well recorded. She proved to me on that one that she could actually hold a tune. I'd actually thought that, forgive me, Liz, I thought that Liz was just a screamer. On Get That Charge she proved that she could sing, and during the recording I recall giving her a hug and a kiss on the cheek a couple of times. She just sang so well that day."

"And I like the new record, too. It was recorded exactly one year to the day after Get That Charge was recorded, the 31st of July. The new one somehow seems more rushed; I guess it was recorded in much the same time as Get That Charge, and there's twice as many tracks, so it is a little more rushed. It almost sounds like a good quality live recording. Still powerful, still pretty nasty, and again, Liz is in fine voice."

THE PHILISTEINS

"The Philisteins I kind of feel drew themselves to me. They came here from Tasmania. And a friend of mine told me that they'd come here to record a record to be released on Greasy Pop, so I think that they'd probably come across my brick wall of "I only release Adelaide music". And they played here for maybe a year or eighteen months, and I saw them a few times and said, yeah, let's go."

"I like the sound of the Philisteins' records, too, and those guys are a pleasure to work with in the studio. They know what they're doing and they're very well rehearsed. A pair of very good guitar players, and Guy's got a great voice. Very easy to record the singer of that band."

THE MAD TURKS FROM ISTANBUL

"Mad Turks are power pop man, you picked it. They started out with this kind of psychotic edge, almost rockabilly at first. I saw them within their first couple of months of playing and I was suitably impressed. A very good band. And I tried to help them through. I guess I did. Released a couple of their records anyway. But I had to pass on them when they wanted a lot of money to record the new album, which is called Toast and will be out early next year. And they needed money to record it properly. They're looking for commercial success in this country, and I wish them the best of luck. With the songs, the arrangements, and the voice of Chuck Scatt they might just get there if they've got the financial back up to promote them and radio to play them. I wish you luck, Turks, you deserve it."

CONTRAPUNCTUS

"Contrapunctus...they gave me a demo tape before I'd seen them live. And one of the songs from that demo ended up on Oasis 2. And I still hear Paul Gilchrist in that song. Chris sounds so much like Paul singing. "Two Legs". And Paul was in there, suggesting which knobs to push. So anyway, they invited me to produce their second one, and I jumped at it."

"I think the most painful one was the studio work I did with Contrapunctus. I learned from it and I don't regret it. I know the end result could have been better. But there's some really nice raw stuff on that record. It was a real challenge in the studio. I guess the band just wasn't quite ready to record, and I felt like I had to teach them things. Guitar parts that I didn't know. It was enjoyable. Stressful, but enjoyable. And I think the end result is worthwhile. That record will be ignored in Australia, which is unfortunate. They deserve some kind of recognition."

"But in a way, I could look at...I choose not to...but Contrapunctus could almost be seen as going back to when I was releasing a lot of singles through 86 and 87, even going back to 84 and 85. Doing such short runs I have bare hope of covering costs of manufacture and royalties. So it's almost like a charity. It was to start with, because I was holding a day job. My attitude was if I could get the records out, and get other people to hear this ****ing noise, because it was so damn good! And for a while Australia didn't seem to want to know. Commercial radio here is pretty damn flat, and there's no room for anything that is not of acceptable "quality". It's like the "industry quality", "the acceptable standard for radio play". Which sucks. And there's no room for advancement, there's no room for experimentation. There's formula music. You know, like I said earlier, I loved Abba, but it annoys me that it's formula, you know. Everything sounds the ****ing same."

"You have your college radio network, we have the public radio stations, and the wonderful JJJ, which is about to go network in Australia, which should help the independent labels, and we're all struggling at the moment. Waterfront's looking pretty good. AuGoGo just released the Mudhoney album, so more power to them."

BIGTIME RECORDS AND OTHER LICENSES

"I don't want to talk about Big Time Records. That's a painful subject. They're just ****ing thieves. They released Six Sharp Cuts, Communist Mutants From Space, Nest Of Vipers and Blaze Of Glory, the single GPR128...they put that on a compilation album, and never even ****ing sent me a copy. I would like a copy of that record...the Big Time compilation album. I don't even know what it was called. It came out in 87 or early 88. I think it was only released in the states. It's got Blaze Of Glory on it. They never gave me a cent for that."

"Other licenses I have are Zinger Records, based in London, which has released the Spikes Color In A Black Forest and both Lizard Train, Thirteen Hour Daydream and Slippery. And they're also licensed through Germany, Spain and Sweden...sub-license deals. Megadisc in Holland released Screaming Believers Refugees, Twenty Second Sect Get That Charge...now you have to track down a copy of that one, because Megadisc actually paid for me to remix the 86 ep, "The Wailing House" ep, so that was remixed about this time...no August or September last year, solely to make the Megadisc version of Get That Charge a full length album. So it's almost like an exclusive remix they got. And that makes the Megadisc release of Get That Charge well worth tracking down."

"There's also an up and coming Screaming Believers compilation called Stories From The Other Side which looks like coming out so far only on Megadisc. I hope to put that record out next year after I've released their next studio recording, which is finished and should come out in February of next year."

"I'm currently negotiating with a German label for the next Mice recording, and that's involved around their tour as well. Nest Of Vipers was also released in England as a sub-lease through Making Waves, which I think folded very quickly and conveniently before paying any royalties. And the Spikes Six Sharp Cuts was sublicensed by Big Time to Hybrid, an offshoot of Statis records in London. And I believe that was also sub-leased around the place...Germany, Sweden. Never saw those copies, though."

"And then the wonderful Sympathy For The Record Industry. My friend John...and Liz's friend John. I met John through Liz Dealey. They'd been writing to each other for a while and Liz had met him on an 86 or 85 trip to America, and introduced me to him. I wrote to him and said I'm coming on over, and he said "Come and stay with me". That was the end of 87, I stayed with John for a couple of weeks in LA. And he was thinking of setting up Sympathy then, and, with his first batch of twelve inch releases, he released the Philisteins Bloody Convicts, and Get That Charge by the Twenty Second Sect. But he's encountered the same problems as I have. Distributors. it's very hard to cover costs anywhere in the world. Exporting and licensing is probably the only way I can survive. It's almost like I can't see the merit in spending thousands of dollars advertising in Australia as I would have to to let people properly know that each record is available. It would be ten or twenty thousand dollars to promote it throughout this country, and I just can't see the merit. So I survive working for other people, and licensing, and exporting. At the moment most of the stuff is going to Germany. I'm hoping that Twenty Second Sect will be picked up by Megadisc for Dutch release, and of course the Lizard Train album next year."

NEW DEVELOPMENTS

"There's a whole lot of stuff going on at the moment. You can see from the catalog that there's a couple of things coming up. The new Philisteins record, which you just heard as background music, probably won't make it this year. It was recorded quite a while ago, at the end of May this year, but artwork held it up for a while, and it's just been cut now, so it might not make it out until January."

"The Where's The Pope album is kind of skate-thrash...something like that. Massappeal kind of territory; Gang Green kind of noise. DRI. Kind of thrashy stuff. The Twenty Second Sect album still may come out this year. And a solo album from Greg Williams, one half of the Every Brothers, that's being licensed to Greasy Record Company/Festival. That'll come out in January also. That was to be GPR148. That's bedroom demos. Cassette recorded four track. Which I think is pretty nice, coming out on a major label in this country."

"The next thing I'm producing is kind of interesting. They're called The Artisans. I guess they come from the other side of town, you know. They certainly are playing a different style. Almost English. In fact they are playing English influenced music. Reminds me of say Joy Division or something. Though not as heavy. More New Order than Joy Division are. More dance than doom. Whereas Mark Of Cain...I trust you've heard the Mark Of Cain album...it's a knockout...released by Dominator, the other Adelaide label, which I would certainly not call opposition. More power to them, another label releasing some more of this noise from this little city. There should be more of them. Because I'm only releasing a very small part of the creative output of Adelaide. I'm just going for the noisy and melodic stuff. There's whole bunches of thrash, mainstream pop, jazz, country, experimental, all that **** going on here, and very little output for it. And very little audience for it."


Continued........

[dreamkillers]

The Greasy Pop Discography

DAG001 - THE DAGOES - We Sell Soul/Little Blackie/Let's Liquidate
DAG002/003 - THE DAGOES - It's You double ep
DAG004 - THE DAGOES - Daunting/Blood On My Face
GPR100 - THE ASSASSINS - Kill The Prime Minister/Suicide
GPR101 - not released...allocated to GUNCONTROL 4 track 7"
GPR102 - DEL WEBB EXPLOSION - Gardening As Finer Art/Too Late The Hero
GPR103 - THE SPIKES - She's Melting/Theme From Acid Beach
GPR104 - SCREAMING BELIEVERS - My Eyes/Unprofessional
GPR105 - THE SPIKES - 6 Sharp Cuts mini lp (released as BTB 908)
GPR106 - THE PURPLE GANG - Rocks In My Mouth 7"
GPR107 - THE ACID DROPS - Surfin Prostitute Beat 7"
GPR108 - FOOLS APART - On The Beach/Ruins
GPR109 - THE DAGOES - Hey Man/Heartbeat
GPR110 - JULY 14th - Me And My Gun 7"
GPR111 - SCREAMING BELIEVERS - Communist Mutants From Space lp
GPR112 - THE SPIKES - A Bloody Mess 7"
GPR113 - AN OASIS IN A DESERT OF NOISE - Compilation lp
GPR114 - JULY 14th - The Australian Bite lp
GPR115 - EXPLODING WHITE MICE - A Nest Of Vipers 12"
GPR116 - PLAY LOUD - Write It Down In Stone 7"
GPR117 - LIZARD TRAIN - Thirteen Hour Daydream 12"
GPR118 - THE SPIKES - River Of Love 7"
GPR119 - THE GARDEN PATH - lp
GPR120 - THE SPIKES - Colour In A Black Forest lp
GPR121 - PRIMEVILS - I Saw My Name 7"
GPR122 - MAD TURKS FROM ISTANBUL - Lolene 7"
GPR123 - THE EVERY BROTHERS - Picks and Pens mini lp
GPR124 - CONEHEADS - Burned Again 7"
GPR125 - DUST COLLECTION - 10 Til 13 O'Clock 7"
GPR126 - LIZ DEALEY AND THE TWENTY SECOND SECT - The Wailing House 7"
GPR127 - PRIMEVILS - Chicken Factory lp
GPR128 - EXPLODING WHITE MICE - Blaze Of Glory 7"
GPR129 - SCREAMING BELIEVERS - Sandra/Is Vic There 7"
GPR130 - THE GARDEN PATH - Blue lp
GPR131 - LIZARD TRAIN - Beauty Underground 7"
GPR132 - LIZARD TRAIN - Slippery lp
GPR133 - MAD TURKS FROM ISTANBUL - Cafe Istanbul lp, released through Festival (L38830)
GPR134 - JULY 14th - Til We Meet Again lp
GPR135 - SCREAMING BELIEVERS - Refugees From The Love Generation lp
GPR136 - THE -ISTS - Rose mini lp
GPR137 - CONEHEADS - Chewy Chewy 7"
GPR138 - BLOODLOSS - Human Skin Suit lp
GPR139 - IRON SHEIKS - Do You Sell Beer Here? 12"
GPR140 - HANDMEDOWNS - Back To Yourself 12"
GPR141 - MORNING GLORY - First Light lp
GPR142 - PHILISTEINS - Bloody Convicts lp
GPR143 - OASIS 2 - Compilation lp
GPR144 - THE TWENTY SECOND SECT - Get That Charge mini lp
GPR145 - UV's - The 89 EP 12"
GPR146 - CONTRAPUNCTUS - Gone lp
GPR147 - THE PHILISTEINS - Some Kind Of Philisteins mini lp
GPR148 - GREG WILLIAMS - Here and Now lp to be released through Festival
GPR149 - WHERE'S THE POPE - Sunday Afternoon Barbecues lp
GPR150 - THE TWENTY SECOND SECT - Unexploded lp
GPR TAPE 1 - A GREASY SELECTION 1985 12 track compilation
GPR TAPE 2 - Bloodloss 9 track cassette lp
GPR TAPE 3 JULY 14th - Cut It Live
GPRF#1 - THE FLEXI POP SHOW - 4 track flexi
GPRF#2 - SCREAMING BELIEVERS - I Want To Have You/FOOLS APART - Within An Inch
K450 - MAD TURKS FROM ISTANBUL - Holding My Breath 7"
K549 - MAD TURKS FROM ISTANBUL - Looking Forward To Destroy 7"
K539 - EXPLODING WHITE MICE - Fear 7"
K651 - EXPLODING WHITE MICE - Breakdown Number Two 7"
K864 - EXPLODING WHITE MICE - Make It 7"
L38830 - MAD TURKS FROM ISTANBUL - Cafe Istanbul lp
L38912 - EXPLODING WHITE MICE - Brute Force And Ignorance lp


The following feature was written in March of 1998.

Mad Turks and Ice Cream Hands

Stay Out In The Mid-day Sun

Somewhere I’ve got a poster that Greasy Pop Records boss Doug Thomas sent me many years ago. It advertises a show featuring four Adelaide bands; the Exploding White Mice, the Screaming Believers, the Mad Turks From Istanbul, and the Garden Path, with admission set at $5 Australian (about $3.50 US). "Four of Adelaide’s best for less than the price of one touring has been mega star" it says. And it really was a hell of a deal, since any of these bands by itself deserved to be able to play to huge crowds and command wildly inflated ticket prices. At the time I thought that if these groups could stay together that at least at the underground level, people would become aware and they would love these bands like I did, and like I still do. But it turns out to have been a wildly optimistic hope. Only the Mice made any kind of impression at all. The Screaming Believers had a US release on Big Time. But neither the Garden Path or the Turks ever made an impression outside of their hometown, and even there they were little heralded.

It’s a huge injustice, and the failure of power pop fans world wide to get turned on to the marvelous Mad Turks From Istanbul is one of the tragedies of rock music history. These guys weren’t just good; they were fabulous, and they made records with lasting quality. I decided to do my part to try to help out the situation and tracked down former Mad Turks and current Ice Cream Hands singer Charles Jenkins to get his story on both these excellent groups.

My initial contact with the Turks was through their first 45, which was in a pile of singles I bought on the 1986 trip to New Zealand that first turned me on to the mid 80s Aussie music scene. But that single wasn’t their first recording…that honor would go to the track "Yet You Wonder Why", a sub-two minute slice of the kind of melancholy power pop that would become the band’s stock in trade and which appeared on the 1985 Greasy Pop compilation An Oasis In A Desert Of Noise. The liner notes of that album tell the distant past of the members of the Turks; they formed in 1984 from the wreckage of four forgotten Adelaide groups; the Crunch Pets, Rigormortis, Faith By Force and the Dysentry Bags. The band consisted of Martyn La Merde on bass, Hank M. Turk on lead guitar, Dominic Larizza (then going by Dom Benedictine) on drums, and Charles Jenkins (calling himself Chuck Skatt) singing and playing rhythm guitar.

"Chuck Skatt was a name I’d been using in high school to offend people and it suited the silly arse punk bands we were in", says Jenkins. "Dom liked a drink back then, hence the name." Dom and Charles played together through thick and thin until just this fall, when Dom decided to hang it up.

"Dom and I decided it was best if he split the Ice Cream Hands a few months back", says Jenkins, referring to the power pop band he and Dom have led for the past several years. "He wasn’t having much fun and regardless of how much critical praise you might receive, playing in a band that never makes it financially is tough."

"The Mad Turks formed in 1984/85", he continues. "For me it was my first band that played pubs and venues and recorded. Dom had been kicking around for a few years singing and playing guitar. With the Turks he came along as a favor to our bass player and played drums (he’d just bought a kit). Originally the band played speed and beer induced twelve bar; it was all we could manage musically and socially. When Doug Thomas saw our third or fourth gig he likened us to Eddie Cochran on dangerous chemicals (though I’m sure Eddie had enough to begin with). Over time our sound changed as I learnt a few more chords and started smoking more pot."

The liner notes to the Oasis comp say that the band was due to release a mini-lp called Turkish Delight in early 1986. This record never happened for reasons that haven’t been explained. Instead, there was that first single. The A side was a politely rocking pop tune with a slight country tinge called "Lolene". The flip was a dirtier number called "Seeing Was Believing" that had a simple structure and kicked like a mother. I have a particular fondness for this track since a band I played in covered this song every gig we played for about four years. It’s a killer, and was good enough to get included on the 1985 compilation Raw Cuts – Australian Nitro, part of British series on worldwide garage bands.

Charles reflects back on that first single. "Lolene was the name given to some big car our bass player Martyn had. I had a collection of chords that sounded OK and would sing "Don’t cry Lolene" in the chorus trying to sound like Roy Orbison. Martyn wrote the rest of it lyrically and I sang it a bit too earnestly in retrospect. The throwaway nature of "Seeing Was Believing" has aged much better to my ears. I’m not sure why "Lolene" was chosen; I think that songs that are immediately catchy have to be jerked around with a bit, otherwise they’ll start to stink very quickly."

"I can’t remember if we went in and specifically recorded those songs for a single or if they were lifted off the album. This guy named Kim Horne was recording most of the bands around Adelaide at that time. He was the king of networking ten years before I’d heard the term. I think Vic from the Garden Path recommended him as he had seen him at work on the first Exploding White Mice EP, and Kim came along to a rehearsal."

To fill in the gap in Jenkin’s memory, they in fact recorded the single nearly a year before their first album. The single sessions were in November 1985, about two months after they finished off "And Still You Wonder Why", which they had originally recorded in May of 1985 but completed by adding some backing vocals in September. It was during these September sessions that they first worked with Horne.

"We signed to Greasy Pop as no one else in Adelaide had any idea", recalls Jenkins. "Doug Thomas was always a proper gentleman and a great music enthusiast, and I was into his band, The Spikes. At that point in time we were going well. We’d expanded to a five piece with just me singing. Dom had moved to guitar, the gigs were going well…typically drunken or stoned, chaotic and loud. We were into it. It was a great scene in Adelaide at that time. Over any weekend you could go and see the Screaming Believers, The Garden Path, The Exploding White Mice, The Lizard Train, Dandelion Wine, The Plague – these bands were all mind-blowing, brilliant acts that radio wouldn’t play because none of it was major label."

The single was the last recorded evidence of Dom as a drummer. He plays capably, but the band definitely took a step up when they recorded their debut lp between December 1986 and January 1987. They brought in Steve Caon on drums, and he plays with a cracking sharp style. The guitars are stronger and more inventive, and the singing is also improved. The album has a stack of brilliant songs on it, especially the trio that lead off the second side: "Looking Forward To Destroy", "Under Review" and "Holding My Breath". These tracks have everything…great hooks, strong guitar with great accent work, and catchy, creative lyrics. "Holding My Breath" is my favorite in the lyric department with its climactic line "That oven hasn’t worked since the day I – put my head inside it", but there are plenty of great bits scattered throughout the rest. The guitar playing is also great…not the usual punky distortion stuff buts instead lots of clean and lightning fast leads that aren’t just pure show…unlike most technically great guitar players, Hank Turk plays complex leads that have a ton of taste.

"The recording of Café Istanbul was a continuation of what was happening live", says Jenkins. "We didn’t rearrange anything or overdub anything more than the odd acoustic guitar. It was cheap and nasty. Our guitarist at the time, Hank, was exceptional. On things like the title track he was unstoppable, and other guitar players around town were gob smacked by his ability. Some of the songs were OK, but I haven’t listened to it since the day it came out. From my memory it sounded thin and wiry, and that’s pretty much how we were back then. The record did well in Adelaide, sort of, but nothing anywhere else. It wasn’t slick enough to dominate the airwaves!"

Well Charles, you are going on memories of 12 years ago, but I’m going on having played Café Istanbul about 8 times in the past two days to get my head into this article, and I’m here to say you are wrong. Thin and wiry it ain’t. While it’s no Ramones copy, this is a power pop record that rocks, and it’s a guitar driven piece of wonder like the best power pop records all are. It’s got vocals that remind you of what Elvis Costello might sound like if he ever got over his cold, and the sound is as full and tasty as you could ever want. A couple songs have a country feel to them (a taste in "Lolene" and a pretty full-on hoedown feel in "Purdy Baby"). But it’s hard to pick favorites out of the rest, since all are strong. "Suicidal Style", "Ten Words" and "Chances Lane" are nearly as good as the tracks released as singles. And the closing "Café Istanbul" rips strongly enough to give you a clear vision of just what Jenkins was talking about when he described Hank Turk’s often brilliant guitar work.

But Charles has the common problem with lack of perspective that many people in bands have about their own work. "Personally I was just happy to have the damn thing out", he says. "We’d been together for quite a while, and we nearly didn’t get any of our original twelve bar songs recorded. I think "Café Istanbul" (the song) was the only one that made it. They were gradually overtaken by songs with more chords, which was a pity in retrospect, but at the time I was interested in moving on, always thinking my last song was my best ever (I still do), so things are bound to be lost. I can remember we chose "Holding My Breath" as an early single unanimously, realizing that the song had come out well. I can also recall sitting in a car outside rehearsal one night with Doug Thomas and the band listening to songs on the album for another single and deciding on "Looking Forward To Destroy" because it was the best sounding song."

Those were two great singles. Like the lp, they were distributed by the Australian major label Festival under a licensing deal with Greasy Pop. "Holding My Breath" has a cool black and white photo of a diver just hitting the water. On the flip are two non-lp tracks. The first, called "All Those Words" was an average song for the Turks, but "Prostitute My Brain" is good enough to be an A-side; another great and dirty rocker that’s a worthy successor to "Seeing Was Believing". The single "Looking Forward To Destroy" is as good an A-side, but the sleeve looks like it was hastily put together by the record company with little thought or care. The flip "Given My Number" is also non-lp and is one of their softer ones.

"We signed to Festival under instructions from management at the time", says Jenkins. "Maybe we thought we could have a crack at commercial success (jolly joke) and we had no one around us at the time who could slap us over the head and knock some sense into us. We were an ugly rock band trying to make a buck in the pre-Nirvana days. Fat chance with that one, I’m afraid."

Lyrics are one of several factors that push Mad Turks songs to a high level. I was disappointed to find that Jenkins no longer is very concerned about maintaining the level that he used to strive for. "I can recall sweating over the lyrics a lot more then than I could be bothered with now", he says. "I eventually gave up on writing anything topical as the songs would always take forever to be released. Also, I gave up on writing any sweeping statements on broad subjects as you sound like more of a cliché merchant than you would normally. So these days my field of vision gets less an less. I’m much more interested in writing about a piece of cheese or whatever (onions!); anywhere the water’s less crowded."

It was to be nearly two years before they would release another album, and it would be their last. But when Toast came out it seemed impossible to me that the Turks would not break through. The songs were as strong and maybe stronger than on the first lp, and the production, while still punchy, was even more radio friendly. The record bristled with potential hit A sides. Three tracks actually made it as singles: "Walking Disaster", "Tempers Fire" and "The Last Time". Of these, the first and last are a little softer and more jangly than what the band had been doing in 1986, but "Tempers Fire" cuts right to the heart of the matter with a hook huge enough to reel in Moby ****. Without a doubt, this song is the Turks finest moment ever, and a power pop song as good as any ever made; it evokes a feel similar to the Plimsoul’s "Million Miles Away", only it has better lyrics. The other two singles are no slouches, but "Tempers Fire" is incredible.

Hank Turk had left the band by the time Toast was made, and Jenkins had picked up his guitar to replace him. The occasional hint of country that Hank added is gone, and the sound is pure pop. Dom’s lead playing is more economical but often equally tasty to Hank’s. With Hank, some rawness also left, but the production, by Arch Larizza, is incredibly sharp and doesn’t sacrifice in the punch department.

"I learnt more about music, be it playing, recording, mixing, writing...everything…in the three weeks (18 days to be precise) that it took to make Toast than I had learnt in the previous five years", says Jenkins. "Dom’s brother Arch is a genius, and he kicked our backsides and knocked the songs into shape. To some archivist it might sound like there’s an album missing in between our two records because we made a big leap and I still think that Toast suffers on the whole from us not being equipped for the jump."

I can’t get over how self critical Jenkins is…here he’s walking out of the studio with a bonafide classic lp in his hands, and he says that they weren’t equipped for the job! But there’s more, too; I told him how much I liked the lyrics to the song "Not So Long Ago", which conveys a huge sense of relief over Gorbachev’s dismantling of the Soviet Union in a unique style (No more five year plans / No more Afghanistans / There’s nothing greater than a powerful man / With the power to understand). But Jenkins dismisses this tune out of hand, saying "the song was funny for about five minutes".

And as for the rest of the album, well, "Bloodmoney" is a song that would be the gem on almost any record that didn’t have "Tempers Fire" on it; could’ve been a knock out single but never made it. Jenkins spits out words in a torrent like This Year’s Model era Elvis Costello. Right after it is another great one in "1,001", which features some of the record’s strongest guitar crunch. And the closing "Left The Right" is a strong finishing rocker. But there are no duds on this lp…it goes from strength to strength whether the songs are loud or quiet like the melancholy "Goodnight". Just a wonderful record.

The three singles all have non-lp B-sides. The flip of "The Last Time" is called "Elusive Dream", and I’d have to assume that it’s Dom singing on it; there’s no credit, but it certainly isn’t Charles. The song is only OK. Same for "American Heartthrob", the flip of "Tempers Fire". And on the back of "Walking Disaster" is an interesting re-make of "Holding My Breath" which is much more understated than the original.

Sometime after Toast came out, the band decided to move their base of action away from their hometown of Adelaide. Says Jenkins: "We moved to Melbourne because there was some management available over here and none in Adelaide. Unfortunately, it turned out to be mismanagement and led to the demise of the band, aided and abetted by a major label and its labyrinth of corridors to get lost in both physically and metaphorically. Personally we all enjoyed the move over. I certainly did at least; it was fun not knowing what’s around the next corner. Eventually we as a band got a bit tired of it all and needed a break. We were never going to make any recording royalty. Festival spent a lot of money on recording and film clips but not a cent on promoting the record when it came out. That’s how I remember it anyway."

I had the very good fortune to see the Mad Turks in Melbourne when I was on a vacation in Australia in 1991. What I wrote at the time follows: "The only show on for Saturday night was the Mad Turks in the middle of a bill with two other bands at the Corner Hotel, which is about a mile east of downtown. This place has the atmosphere of a stoneage cave dwelling, a feeling that was heightened when a punter came out of the club as I approached and blew chow all over the sidewalk. All I can say about the opening band is that they closed with a cover of "Whole Lotta Love"...the things I'll suffer to see a band I like! The Turks were just superb live, though...their set list included all their power pop greats and they played them with real inspiration even though the crowd was only twenty or thirty people. Starting with their brilliant "Tempers Fire" and ending with "Holding My Breath", they also found space for a few cool covers, best of which were the Replacements "A Little Mascara" and another one called "The Executioner" that I can't recall the source of. Somebody told me they thought the Turks sound like Elvis Costello used to sound, and I guess there is a trace of that in Chuck Scatt's vocals and in the way the wordplay goes on in the songs, but the Turks' two guitar, no keyboards sound musically isn't much like the Attractions were. The Turks level of playing was frighteningly good...every harmony spot on, everything tight as can be but still with that extra punch that good live shows deliver above and beyond recorded music."

But when I caught them things were near the end. Playing shows that good to nobody is discouraging, and when management and record company don’t seem to be helping, it’s easier to quit the struggle.

"After the Turks wound up I spent a year playing solo shows and kept on writing and four tracking", says Charles. "The solo gigs were relatively lucrative, but eventually I felt like filling in the gaps by getting some friends to help out. I toyed with the idea of getting different instruments in but I felt more natural I suppose with the guitar bass’n’drums deal. I had a regular gig on a Wednesday night and over time the first line up came together. We called ourselves the "Dishonest Johns" and played things like Randy Newman’s "Political Science", XTC’s "Grass" and the Soft Boys’ "Lend Me A Spanner, Ralph". We would sit down, crack jokes and entertain; it was all very fruity! At some point in time, we stood up. Got our electric guitars back out and decided to ROCK. Well, sort of."

Still located in Melbourne, the band that was to become the Ice Cream Hands at that time consisted of Charles (still calling himself Chuck Skatt), Dom from the Turks, (now going by his real last name), Derek Smiley on drums and finally fellow Adelaide ex-patriot Doug Robertson on bass.

"The group became whole when Doug joined", says Charles. "I’d seen him play in various bands around Adelaide and somehow we met up in Melbourne and he joined. That’s when it felt like a band. He and Smiley clicked straight away rhythmically, vocally and personally, and also because Doug could write songs and improve the songs I had, it really felt like there were a few other oars in the water, which is what I wanted. I certainly wasn’t ready for solo projects."

The other thing the band would need is a record label. That problem was solved by good chance when they struck up a friendship with David Vodicka, a fellow who heads a fine Melbourne based label called Rubber Records.

"I had met David Vodicka at some point in time when the Turks played at Monash Uni and David interviewed us for the Uni paper", says Charles. "He lived near Steve, the Turks drummer, and we bumped into him once in the neighborhood and kept in touch. He helped me get out of the publishing deal that I had with Festival and said that he’d put out the first ep that the Hands had done with Archie Larizza."

The first Ice Cream Hands lp was recorded over the end of 1992 and the beginning of 1993. It’s a lot more mellow than any of the Turks material, opening with the piano driven "Let’s Take A Look Inside" and working its way through 13 other mid-tempo rock tunes and ballads. Says Charles: "Travelling Made Easy was recorded soon after Doug joined. The quietness of some of the record is due to the "Dishonest Johns" period of the band. We weren’t playing live all that much and therefore I didn’t feel compelled to write "rockin’ good time crowd pleasers". They were the first fourteen songs the band learnt and in retrospect I reckon about half that record is great. The songs didn’t suit radio at all at that time, and we didn’t have any big live following, so the record stiffed. Vodicka stopped paying for recordings after that."

Almost any record with Jenkins singing on it is worth listening to, but Travelling Made Easy is the most quiet experience you’ll have with him. It has some solid rocking numbers like the knockout "The Way She Drives" or "You Can Smile Now", but much of it is more laid back. Overall it is a very pleasant listening experience, but to me it sounded like the work of a musician who was heading towards a graceful exit from the scene. Which is why the subsequent series of CDEPs culminating in the recent Memory Lane Traffic Jam was such a pleasant surprise.

"Due to the fact that our first record didn’t fare too well out there in retail land, we had to save up to record our next album ourselves", says Charles. "To cut a long story short, it took a long, long time to do so. We recorded the album in bits and pieces, starting with "Supermarket Scene" and "Winters Tune", then "Go When You Want To", then "Olive" and "Shake and See The Reason", then the b-sides for the "Olive" ep (which included "Early Morning Frost". There were six months periods in between each of these recordings where we would try to play some gigs to get the money for more time in the studio. Eventually Doug was able to kick in a bit of bread somehow and we finished off the last half of the record in August of 1996. Somehow the distributors thought the earliest possible release date would be too close to Christmas, so they put it aside until early 1997, and by then Rubber was about to change distribution in Australia to BMG, so we had to wait until August 1997 for that to occur and for the record to finally be released."

"Because we had been playing a bit more, the songs were naturally punchier than the first record. Also half the songs on the album, (the ones I mentioned earlier) were recorded initially as possible singles so therefore they tended to be more upbeat. It wasn’t until the August 1996 sessions that we realized that we would get to complete the record, so songs like "Iron Shoes" and "Embarrassment Head" were introduced to add a bit more of flavor to the album. Personally I think my favorite is "Is It Already Too Late?". We had such grandiose plans for brass and strings in the middle and at the end of that song. However, we were running out of money and just about to race off to play a gig and Doug, Smiley and I had had a few drinks so we thought, **** it, and got around a microphone and did all the "oohs" and "aahs" that still work in the sober light of day."

There certainly are a passel of fine tracks on this lp. Overall it is still a lot more introspective than the Turks were, but Jenkins has the knack of writing an interesting mid-tempo cut or ballad down pat. The approach is far more of a pure pop sort of thing than the Turks as well; "Here We Go Now" for example sounds like Rubber Soul era Beatles. Whether something slower like "Supermarket Scene" and "Early Morning Frost" or more rocking songs like "Shake And See The Reason" and the monstrous "Is It Your Electric Chair" with its series of incessant key changes, everything seems to click on this one.

Says Jenkins: ""Is It Your Electric Chair" was an attempt at producing an annoying rock’n’roll beast. I think we tried a few ideas for the bridge but then hit on that instrumental riff-a-rama thing. Lyrically the chorus made it easy to throw in any vague recollections to the verse and to poke fun at the music".

The original release for this album was on Rubber Records in Australia, but it subsequently has been picked up for US release on Not Lame, who released it with new artwork and added some bonus tracks from the CDEPs. So after all these years, Jenkins finally has a US release.

As for what’s coming next, Jenkins tells me: "The band are trying to get another single off the record at the moment to assault radio with. The print media has been ecstatic regarding the record but the few people who control the airwaves in this country have been glacier like in their movements to play it on the radio. We’re currently getting songs together for the next record and playing acoustic gigs around town while we look for another guitarist to fill the very big shoes of our old friend Dom Larizza. Generally things are very busy both privately and music wise, which is obviously good. The songs are coming along, there’s more and more people aware of the band, the money’s up to about ten miles below the poverty line, so yeah, things are improving."

Jenkins’ optimism notwithstanding, losing Dom seems like a medium scale disaster from my perspective; when two people have maintained an association for that long it’s hard to see how their split can’t create major upheaval. But perhaps the change will spur a new sense of determination and the Ice Cream Hands will end up hitting even higher levels. It remains to be seen, but even if it all ends tomorrow, the Ice Cream Hands and the Mad Turks together will have left a legacy of music that would be tragic for the world to ignore.




Still plenty more band articles to come.........and keep posting your concert reviews or memories of bands from this great era of Australian music............:D

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
Interesting 'promotional' spiel on Greasy Pop Records.


It was the only thing I could find on the label that included bands and their releases on the label - and is actually sourced from where most of my other posts about bands have been.


This is all I can find on Where's The Pope? so I'd be more than happy for you to tell us more about the band -and be as self promotional as you want............. :D


Band History and Discography compiled by Rhys Davies

Hailing from Adelaide, on the south coast of Australia, Where's the Pope? formed sometime in 1985. The band, comprised of Jeff-guitar, Frank-vocals, Phil-drums, Rob-bass, started playing shows in Adelaide in late '85.

Sound-wise the band was a bit of a departure from the usually UK influenced (Discharge, English Dogs, Disorder...) punk/hardcore scene of Australia. WTP? took thier cue from the "skatecore" bands of America (JFA, The Faction) and the more melodic American hardcore bands like Seven Seconds (etc).

In 1987 Phil MacDougall approached the band about perhaps releasing some of the band's material. The band agreed and the Straight Edge Holocaust 9 track 12" came out sometime that year. The release, which became the last on the prolific Australian Reactor records, sold well throughout Australia, so well infact that the record almost made the commercial charts in Adelaide. Songs like "Jesus Gets Rich" and "There Goes the Neighbourhood' were sarcastic and satirical attacks on Christianity and Racism within Australian society, while songs like "Pizza To Go" showed the bands more light-hearted side.

After a significant hiatus, the band released there first "full length" LP (Straight Edge Holocaust being a "mini-LP"), entitled Sunday Afternoon Barbecues on Adelaide label Greasy Pop records. Released in 1990, the twelve track LP was different from the first record. Lyrically the record was devoted almost entirely to beer, while musically the band seemed to have shed its loose, hardcore edge, quite possibly due to the long time between records and significant line-up changes.

Where's the Pope? recently released a brand new CD on Resist Records out of Sydney.

DISCOGRAPHY
Releases

STRAIGHT EDGE HOLOCAUST LP (Reactor, 1987)
SUNDAY AFTERNOON BARBEQUES LP (Greasy Pop, 1990)
PSI CD (Resist, 1999)

Compilations

ARE WE STILL HERE? (Dominator Records) "Jesus Gets Rich"
THE NOT SO LUCKY COUNTRY 2LP (Reactor, 1988), "Jesus Gets Rich"



It's the bands and their music that this thread is all about and sharing the experiences so we can all learn more about this great time in our music history................:D

[Santos L Helper]

WTP? also released a cassette in 1986 titled "Honk, I AM Jesus!" and a 'self-titled' CD in 1994 (sold out).
The second album was looser because we decided that it was more fun not preaching so much to people and realised that most of the people who saw us were there for a good time. This definitely helped our popularity no end. The sarcasm was still there, but I think the reviewers saw the word 'beer' in a song and forgot to look any further.

WTP? had many highlights through our career, many great tours interstate and made many friends with interstate and international bands. A couple of great memories for me were finding out that Rocket From the Crypt had specifically asked to be included on the Adelaide 'BDO' so they could watch us play, and having the bass player from Rancid getting to 'Summersault' (1996) early so he could watch us play.
These type of friendships and experiences helped to make it all worthwhile.
We also played many many wild shows which people still refer to nowadays. One time when the 'Century' roof got smashed by WTP?'s singer and was left there by management helped to create a mystique in the early days. One show we played with a 'death metal' band from Melb. so i wore a long black wig and the 'metal heads' thought we were metal and half way through the first song I took it off to reveal short blonde spikes and their jaws just dropped.......hilarity.

Anyway, more later.

[Leaping Lindner]

I have a stinking headache so I'll contibute a couple of things quickly to this.Great stuff by the way DK.

Firstly Santos that self titled CD from 1994. Does that feature a crowd from the BDO at Adelaide Uni? If so it is like a who's who's of annoucers from 3d radio at the time that use to actually play hard rock(and Adelaide bands). I'm in there somewhere as well as Dr Sphincter and Kami and a few others.

Does anyone remember any filmclips by Greasy Pop bands???
The only two that come readily to mind for me are The Screaming Believers "Don't talk of love" and The Mice's "Breakdown #2"(the mice must have had others I'd imagine).

That double Dagoes single is REALLY rare by the way. I ended up selling my copy to a guy in Germany in the mid 80's for some ludicrious amount.

By the way the Kilburn Mods were the greatest Adelaide band of the late 70's and early 80's :D :rolleyes:

[dreamkillers]

Ok time for a couple of features on 2 of Adelaide's greatest bands who are still together today.........

First up The Mark Of Cain.........


I've had the pleasure of seeing TMOC live a few times over the years ranging from small intense crowds going off at the Tivoli and Century Hotels right through to the main stages at the Big Day Out - we've also had them appear up here in Darwin supporting Helmet at the Ski Club a few years ago

IMO the smaller shows really show what this band is about as you can feel the brutal energy of the band how it is meant to be heard and felt............

Now who can guess the venue of the pic below...........

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~micd/bndmoc.jpg

The Mark of Cain, based in Adelaide, Australia - has also been described to be one of the best and " most brutal bands around today." This talented outfit had it's beginnings in 1984 and have since released four main LP's plus numerous singles and EP's as well as a box set of complete recordings..


A timeline for The Mark of Cain (TMOC):

1985 : The year saw TMOC entering into it's first formal lineup with the brothers John and Kim on guitar and bass, Rod Archer on vocals and Roger Crisp on drums.

1986: John took over the microphone and became TMOC's vocalist. John Rickert became the new drummer. Many songs were also composed during this year.

1987: TMOC continued to perform, entering into larger venues. They also hit the recording studio producing several demos.

1988: Single release - The Lords of Summer / Can You See Now ? John Rickert left the band, leaving TMOC without a drummer. Later that year, Campbell Robinson took the role. They were also writing many songs during that year.

1989: Battlesick released through Dominator Records

1990: Saw the subsequent release of Unclaimed Prize. Work commitments for both John and Kim halted touring for that year.

1991: While in Chicago, John and Kim worked with Steve Albini, producing Incoming which was released in 1993. Another new drummer joined TMOC, Aaron Hewson. Promotion for The Unclaimed Prize went underway when they returned from overseas.

1992-1994: TMOC performed throughout Australia and also supported many well known overseas bands. We also saw the release of Incoming(1993), Viet Vet(1994) and the re-release of TMOC's first two albums.

1995-1996: The year saw the release of the single First Time/Details and then the incredible album,Ill at Ease, which was produced by Henry Rollins. Huge success then followed and the band embarked on a national tour. However, the year also saw the departure of drummer Aaron Hewson. Campbell Robinson, who had worked with the band a few years earlier, rejoined the band. A single off the album, LMA was then released in early 1996. Gigs at large outdoor festivals were also a highlight for that year. 1996 also saw the release of a remix album, Rock and Roll which was another huge success. The release confirmed that TMOC was not afraid to explore new grounds in music.

1997: The year started off with more national dates around Australia. Rock and Roll continued to do very well in many non mainstream charts as well as receiving generous airplay on radio. TMOC recorded a cover of the X's Degenerate Boy for David Caeser's movie Idiot Box and as a result, TMOC continued to gain widespread recognition and airplay. A single was also released from the Rock and Roll CD - Interloper which contained five different tracks. The band also saw the departure of drummer Campbell Robinson.

1998: TMOC re-released all their albums in November, 1998. The albums were re-mastered and distributed through BMG. A TMOC box set, "The Complete Recordings 88-98" was also released in parallel with the re-releases.The Mark of Cain has recruited Stuart Baguley as their 11th drummer in early 1998. The Mark of Cain embarked on a national tour in late 1998.

2000-2001: TMOC began recording their new album with ex-Helmet drummer, John Stanier. Utilising the producing talent of Phil McKeller and Andy Gill, TMOC released their long awaited album, This is This in early June, 2001. 2 singles from the album, (R) Retaliate and Familiar Territory were released before the album release.

TMOC embarked on a small tour in April 2001 and will be promoting their new album in July, 2001.

The Mark of Cain Band Member History 1985-2001

http://www.tmoc.com.au/tmocpics/tree.jpg

The Mark of Cain is not a heavy metal band but the density of their sound and the intensity of their live performances has endeared them to fans of hard-edged music of all kinds and it would be fair to say that in their almost 20-year career the band has inspired a small legion of bands across the country. While The Mark of Cain is often compared to the likes of Helmet and Rollins Band, the band predates both of them by almost half a decade and their sound draws more from a combination of early Joy Division and early US hardcore than any post-90s influence.

Formed as a four-piece with Rod Archer on lead vocals and Roger Crisp drumming in Adelaide in 1984, The Mark of Cain soon became the three-piece formation so well known today. Throughout their long history, the Scott brothers have been the stable members in a band which has seen something like 13 drummers come and go over the course of their career. After Campbell Robinson replaced John Rickert in 1988 The Mark of Cain released two albums in (for them) relatively quick succession, along with the 'Incoming' EP which was produced by Steve Albini. Robinson was replaced by Aaron Hewson in 1991.

The band's breakthrough came in 1995 with the release of the Henry Rollins produced Ill At Ease, their most complete work to date. A national tour followed its release but shortly afterward Hewson quit the band and Robinson returned. Rock And Roll was a bold experiment that featured remixes of several tracks but it resulted in a swelling of the band's fanbase and showed that they weren't afraid to take chances. Inclusion on the soundtrack of the successful local film Idiot Box also helped the band's cause. Robinson was replaced by Stuart Baguley in late 1998.

Since that time The Mark of Cain has been even less prevalent than ever, although rare live appearances continue to draw large and appreciative crowds. Ex-Helmet drummer Stanier was rumoured to be joining the band as long ago as mid-99; he was hired to play on the This is This album which was produced by Gang of Four's Andy Gill and afterward was declared The Mark of Cain's official drummer. For a band which has been anything but prolific and whose tours are infrequent, The Mark of Cain maintains a fiercely loyal following which seems to grow exponentially with every release.

Singles:
The Lords of Summer (single) (Phantom) 1988
Incoming (EP) (Dominator) 1993
Tell Me (Insipid) 1994
The Killer Is Within (EP) (Dominator) 1994
First Time (rooArt) 1995
LMA (rooArt) 1996
Degenerate Boy (rooArt) 1997
Interloper (Who Made Who mix) (rooArt) 1997
Retaliate (BMG) 2001
Familiar Territory (BMG) 2001

Albums:
Battlesick (Dominator) 1989
The Unclaimed Prize (Dominator) 1991
Ill At Ease (rooArt) 1995
Rock And Roll (BMG) 1996
This is This (BMG) 2001
Compilation tracks: Visions of Love; Attrition -- Are We Still Here? (Dominator) 1988
Compilation track: Battlesick -- Youngblood 2 (rooArt) 1994
Compilation track: Interloper -- Homegrown (Homegrown) 1994
Compilation track: Tell Me -- Eleven (ABC) 1994
Compilation track: LMA -- Rare Cords (rooArt) 1996
Compilation tracks: Degenerate Boy; Hindsight -- 'Idiot Box' Soundtrack (rooArt) 1997
Compilation track: First Time -- Thirteen (ABC) 1997
Compilation track: Interloper -- Hardware (rooArt) 1997
Compilation track: Interloper -- Hits from the Back Door: Recovery Live (Virgin) 1997
Compilation track: Second Hander -- Full Metal Racket 2 (ABC/EMI) 2002





The Mark of Cain Re-releases & Box Set Information
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~susannay/tmoc/tmocpics/box2.jpg

TITLE : Battlesick – Remastered Re-issue
RELEASE DATE : 2nd November 1998

Battlesick is The Mark Of Cain’s debut album. Produced by Stuart Sheldon and first released on vinyl in 1989 through an independent label in Adelaide – Battlesick, before now, has NEVER been available as an individual cd release.

The initial pressing of Battlesick sold out within two months of it’s release and it impressively debuted at #1 on the 5 Triple M charts!

Quite stark and real, Battlesick deals with themes of personal anguish, pain and suffering, life and death. With gothic undertones (often accredited to the influence of Joy Division) and heavy base lines the album includes the classic tracks Attrition, Summertime and You Are Alone.

Besides being a critically acclaimed debut and landmark Australian alternative album, Battlesick charted TMOC on the musical map – with their very own distinctive style and military imaging which continues to evolve today.

Specially priced, Battlesick has been fully re-mastered and is clearly stickered to include two bonus tracks from the same period – Can You See Me Now and The Lords Of Summer.
CD CAT#: 74321616992 BAR#: 0743216169924


TITLE : The Unclaimed Prize – Remastered Re-issue
RELEASE DATE : 2nd November 1998

Also produced by Stuart Sheldon, The Unclaimed Prize is the second darker and more sinister second album from The Mark Of Cain. Originally released on vinyl in 1991, The Unclaimed Prize has NEVER been available as an individual cd release.

With a harsher and more aggressive sound, TMOC deal with personal alienation through songs such as UCD, Drive On and the title track.

Double kick-drums, the thumping bass of Kim Scott and the menacing sonic guitar and muffled vocals of his brother John; provide and avalanche of sound and emotion.

Where bass lines held their debut album together, the star of The Unclaimed Prize is the guitar.

This album has obviously been influenced by Steve Albini and Big Black but TMOC, cemented their title as the cutting edge “independent” act with this album. The Unclaimed Prize was heralded by many as the best local album of 1991 and proved why TMOC are synonymous with the term “intensity”.

Specially priced, and with original artwork, The Unclaimed Prize has been fully re-mastered and is clearly stickered indicating four classic bonus tracks from the same period – Tell Me, Viet Vet, Cripple and Shadows.
CD CAT#: 74321616982 BAR#: 0743216169825


TITLE : Ill At Ease - Remastered Re-issue
RELEASE DATE : 2nd November 1998

If their first two releases opened the doors, Ill At Ease proves that, a decade on, The Mark Of Cain have become an irreplaceable part of the Australian “scene”.

Originally released in 1995 (their first on a major label), Ill At Ease bought TMOC together with long standing fan and producer, Henry Rollins.

Finally, the live might of TMOC had been captured with a near perfect album, with no gaps or fillers, Ill At Ease is simply ten brilliant, solid tracks. Ill At Ease is the most intense and artistically-mature work from TMOC, yet!

Ill At Ease is just that; guitar car chases, rage and reprisal; all bought to life in classic songs such as Interloper, Hindsight and You Let Me Down.

This monumental album spent weeks at #1 on the ARIA Alternative and Metal charts, while the first single, First Time, did the same. Ill At Ease should be a jewel in the crown of any self-respecting music fan’s collection.

Ill At Ease has been fully re-mastered and is clearly stickered indicating the inclusion of a bonus track – Details.
CD CAT#: 74321617302 BAR#: 0743216173020


TITLE : Rock And Roll – Industrial Strength Remixes
RELEASE DATE : 2nd November 1998

First released as a 9 track EP – with special cut-out packaging - in 1996. Rock And Roll attempted to turn punter opinion of The Mark Of Cain on it’s ear.

Challenging public perception of the band, TMOC invited various producers and DJ’s to re-mix (and re-interpret) their favourite TMOC track with some astounding results.

Many of the tracks allowed the public to view TMOC from a new angle, Paul Mac from Itch-e & Scratch-e (The Contender), The Young Gods (Interloper) and members of B(if)tek (You Let Me Down) provided mixes which soon became a staple for JJJ radio.

From dance to industrial, Rock And Roll provided an amazing depth and many re-mixes which were far from being cliched’ “rock & roll”. Rock And Roll proved why you can never underestimate this brilliant band.

Rock And Roll – Industrial Strength Remixes has extended the original EP to album length. Three bonus re-mixes have been added , UCD, Call In Anger and Fire In Her Heart, making this re-issue extra special.
CD CAT#: 74321617322 BAR#: 0743216173228


TITLE : Complete Recordings: 88 - 98
RELEASE DATE : 2nd November 1998

With brand new recordings eminent in 1999; The Mark Of Cain: Complete Recordings is a timely reminder of the awesome impact TMOC have had on the Australian music landscape.

Tracing a decade of work (1988 – 1998), this is the first box set from TMOC and includes THE ENTIRE RECORDINGS from this Adelaide band in special packaging.

Strictly limited to 1000 box sets, the complete recordings will become a collector’s item. It includes, Battlesick, The Unclaimed Prize, Ill At Ease, Rock And Roll and 10 bonus tracks (49 tracks in total!) – over 3 hours and 50 minutes of TMOC at full volume.

The box and inner sleeves are designed to re-produce an actual studio master tape, complete with studio track sheets for each album and a magnificent 44 page booklet (full colour) with comprehensive reviews, quotes, band images, discography and words from John and Kim Scott.
CD CAT#: TMOCBOX1 BAR#: 9399424000125


Found this revealing and up front interview from back in 1991 where Harry Butler from D.N.A spoke at length with both Kim and John.

The D.N.A Interview - 1991

Abstract : June, 1991 - This is only the second ever issue of "DNA" to be devoted to a single band, and represents probably the most comprehensive piece of work I have ever done on such an entity. Basically its a compilation of three interviews, two with John Scott (25/3/91 and 3/4/91) and a very long one with both Scott brothers last year (3/3/90), plus an accumulation of several years worth of note taking at gigs and compiling of bits of information of several years worth of note taking at gigs and throughout, with Kim's comments delineated as such, and just a couple of explanatory and/or introductory remarks from me at the end.

In essence this is intended as THE MARK OF CAIN explaining in their own words what they thing they're on about - a mixture of what they've done, why they've done it and even a bit of "what it all means". Up to a point there was a bit of a critical "attack" on them with the questions that led to the comments printed within, but by and large its been prepared as more of a "fanzine" type thing than a critical analysis.

John Scott has certainly bared his "soul" in some sections and will probably cop a lot of flak for some of his more forthright opinions, but he read, checked and verified the whole thing before it went to print so he can undertake his own defence. Being the argumentative soul that he is, that's something he'll no doubt approach with relish.

I embarked upon this exercise in a relatively biased way, given that a) I regard The Mark of Cain as being probably the best Adelaide band I have ever encountered, and b) I consider myself privileged to count John Scott as one of my best friends, however non of the more disturbing comments has been edited out to "make them look better".

So here you have it, that loud mouth beast known variously as Rocking Johnny Idol, Dog Willy Scott, that ****ing mod, Johnny Megaphone and various other less than flattering nick names, plus brother Kim tell all.

John: I bought my first guitar when I was 15 or 16, a $98 Sakai I think it was, and a little practise amp. I was continually trying to learn Jimi Hendrix and Beatles songs, and how to do and F shaped chord. When I was 17 I got actual lessons for a year or so from a guy up in Blackwood not only in playing but also how to read chord charts and music. At that time I was working at Coles New World in Unley with people like Chris Crowe, who was just getting out of his Angels phase and getting into the SexPistols and U-Bombs - this would have been around 1979-80. There were other guys there too who just mopped the floors like me and we used to talk about bands all the time. One of them, a bloke named Steve Blight reckoned he could play drums, so I said "oh yeah, well I can play lead" - which I couldn't. So I went back to the guy in Blackwood and said "Look I have to play lead guitar for a band", so he showed me basic lead guitar "box" number one, and you can work the rest out from there. So I joined this band that Steve Glight had and pretty rapidly took over.

There'd been someone else playing guitar originally, but I pushed him out - or he left - and got in a mate of mine on guitar named Simon Kirk, who'd introduced me to things like The BoysNext Door and Dead Kennedys. We kicked around doing hat for most of 1980, thought about having a name but never managed anything and just stuck to jamming in garages and things. We were doing some Stooges songs like "I Wanna Be Your Dog" - the really "complicated" ones with "lots" of chords and , ah " Johnny B Goode". We got rid of one guy because he wanted to do "Proud Mary", which I refused to play but ended up having to do anyway - I hadn't learnt to totally dominate a band at that time. It was one of those groups where you'd say things like "we'll come back to that song later", but never get around to doing it. We did a lot of Hendrix stuff like "Fire", "Manic Depression", tried to do "Purple Haze" , "Hey Joe", "Foxy Lady". You name it we tried it, basically because I was going through a really heavy Hendrix phase at the time.

We did a couple of SexPistols songs - "Pretty Vacant" and "Submission" and I 'spose it sounded like a half sixties-half punker- outfit.

At one stage i think I knew all the Sex Pistols songs but just didn't have anyone to play them with - pretty bad isn't it? Kim and I were in this very isolated Lover Mitcham suburban locale, and were going to a private school - Westminster - and that's not very conducive to alternative thoughts. Then again, perhaps it is in a way. Anyway, there we were in suburban isolation and I started hanging around with these guys at Coles New World. I still hadn't managed to get anywhere musically by then, but I'd managed to convince Kim to buy a bass, and Simon Kirk was still in there somewhere, flitting between bands. Somehow along the way I met a guy who was a proper drummer, a really good drummer, named Ian McDonald who played for a mob called Vox Pop. He was also friends with Peter Reid - the infamous Sydney personality - I think we'd all met through going to those $1.99 multiband shows at the Hilton Hotel on South Road.

Kim: "The Rock 'n Roll Supermarket".

John: I was probably still underage, like most of the people there ...

Kim: No you'd just turned legal, but I was still underage.

John: That's right, I remember you getting hassled out. Anyway I met Ian McDonald and Peter Reid there, and Peter was a pretty weird bloke. I used to go down to his flat in Glenelg and we'd sit around working out how to play Buzz****s songs together. Through those two I met some of the other people around town. At that time I wasn't in a band but I tried out for different groups with Ian playing drums. He left after a while to join some mob called The Bureau, just before the UK band of the same name got big. There were all sorts of things happening and I was also getting right into The Jam and Paul Weller about that stage. I'd always liked The Who and the 60's in general and I was reading all this stuff on mods and skinheads. I didn't want to be a skinhead but I liked the mods even though a lot of mods I met in Adelaide turned out to be a mob of ********s. I thought "ah **** it, I'll get a scooter" and at least that would be a way of getting to meet all these people into the same kind of stuff. I was too scared to go to the Auror Hotel, which was the great punk and mod watering hold at that time, because of the thing of having to go in by myself. I used to ride by on Wednesday nights, which was "the night" there, I'd cruise by and things about going in but I never had the guts to do it. I thought I'd get laughed at or hassled, which probably would have happened at that stage by the way the mod scene was organised.

So anyway, I had all these music things going on which weren't really happening, all the so-called bands fell in a heap, but I was still mucking around with Peter Angleberger and occasionally another guy names Gavin Atkinson. I'd met Gavin at school where he'd been doing music and was a drummer - he'd agreed to play drums for us now and then as a fill-in.

One day I rode my scooter into Sharp's Scooter Shop and met the guy who owned the "black and silver scooter" which was "the" scooter everyone idolised in Adelaide. You'd never see it at the Aruora, only parked in Sharp's, because he was too frightened to park it anywhere else for fear it'd get trashed. He'd park it there during the day while he worked at the Taxation Dept like all good musicians and their public service jobs. Anyway I got to meet the guy, Stuart Harrison, and then all his mates as well. This led me to all these other dopey bastards (mods) who were sort of central to the scene and had been in it from the beginning. It wasn't the peripheral riff-raff who didn't know what was going on, so I was lucky there getting right to the core of the social situation.

I asked Stuart if he'd seen this band called The Vents because I was really interested in checking them out and he said "oh I'm in The Vents". I had been reading "DNA" at that time about The Vents and also thinking "who's this Harry Butler bloke?" and "he must be a really nasty bloke judging by the stuff he writes".
Little did I know that years later I'd find out it was true and you really are an arsehole!

So I'd heard about his band through your rag and he said they were looking for a guitarist. I told him I could play guitar and so he invited me to visit him which was the start of everything.

In due course I went over to Stuart's place and got to meet his band. They turned out to be similar to me and I quite enjoyed hanging around with them, playing music and trying to write Clash songs.

Soon after though, we found ourselves listening to rhythm and blues music more and more and we decided to change the band into that direction and the King Bees came into being.

I'd just turned 19 when I linked up with them, cancelled everything else I was trying to do and went full bore into that. We did out first show towards the end of 1982 at the Cremorne Hotel and played on through to the end of 1983. For various reasons the band fell apart, one being that nearly all of them lived together and I was the one who resided elsewhere so I immediately became the outsider. Having to study as well didn't help, and I just couldn't keep up with the "in" jokes whilst living at home. During the latter part of 1983 it came to an end, we'd had a pretty good residency at the Saloon Bar up in North Adelaide, done pretty well out of it, and if we'd started playing five years later we would have been pretty big I guess. In the middle of the year the band's set had changed a lot and was tending to be a bit of a punk jukebox, so we'd changed the name to The Jump. I got kicked out of what was the remnants of The Jump when they were getting into playing The Stranglers. I ran into one of the band members in town just before rehearsal one night and he seemed to react strangely to me. I remember saying to my girlfriend at the time "I'm going to be kicked out" which she thought was needless paranoia on my part. So I went over, we did one song then the drummer walked out, followed shortly after by the rest of them and I was left there in the room with just Stuart - owner of the great scooter which he's sold by then. He said "sorry, we only need one guitar in the band" and I thought "yeah, right yo, thanks ****s". I'd supplied the transport for moving gear around and I felt I'd put in my fair share of work towards the band and I felt pretty well spat upon by all of them. Basically I was really ****ed off.

If you've never had it happen to you, then count yourself spared of a pretty horrible ordeal. Sitting in a room full of people, being told "we don't want you in the band anymore", so you pack up your gear after its been resident there for six months or a year, and take it out to your car. Then you say "see ya later" and they reply "well drop around any time you want to " and you feel like saying "yeah no problems, get ****ed!"
So I decided to get another band going because during that era while the rest of that band were going in and out of their drugs and living in the past, I'd started hearing odd bits of Black Flag - when I could find it - and Joy Division had been heavily featured in my life from 1981 onwards, so I decided I wanted a Joy Division type band.

Kim: Those guys didn't like that at all.

John: They thought it was crap. A great anecdote that says it all. When I turned up the night they sacked me I thought I'd try not to give them any reason to get rid of me, because of the tip-off from the chance meeting earlier in the day with another member, so I kept my guitar turned down really low. What they heard that night was themselves only. They told me "with a second guitarist it sounds really messy and horrible" so really that was the best thing they could ever say because they canned themselves. They were only hearing themselves, it was messy and horrible and they were too stoned to know what they were doing. From there on they rapidly disintegrated and never even played another gig.

Meanwhile I started Spiral Collapse, the name having come from a song I'd written. I guess at that time I was still pretty naive about bands, and this was now MY first band. At least from Stuart in the King Bees I'd learnt how to run a band, how to make people practise songs over and over again. If you get it wrong, too bad, you don't just go on to another one , you keep working on it until you get it right - that's the way to do it. That was the mistake I'd made with a lot of previous bands - you want instant gratification - you want the song to happen straight away, not realising that you've got to practise it. Spiral Collapse had a number of songs, a lot of originals, that we worked at quite hard. Our singer had said he could do Ian Curtis type vocals, but he didn't work out that well when we tried to rehearse stuff up. That band ended up dissolving in the middle of the following year, partly because I was in my last year at uni and I needed the time to study and partly it wasn't turning out to be what I wanted. I wanted some more guts in the music and I didn't think we were getting quite what we wanted with Alex up front. I still see him around occasionally and its okay, but in a band it just didn't work between us.

Kim: They went into the studio during that time too. Spiral Collapse used to rehearse at the Giner Workshop, which was next to Unley Shopping Centre and has now turned into a restaurant. They met Simon Rodriguez there who heard them play "No Love Lost" (an old Warsaw - pre Joy Division band - song) and said "hey that sounds like the Birthday Party, what a great song" and gave them song recording time.

John: We did a four song demo at Zvie Kileg Studio, which was in the city on a little side street just off something near Hutt Street. Apart from the Warsaw song we used to do "Tight Pants" by the Stooges as well, so there actually was a bit of a Detroit flavour coming through after all. After a while we changed our name to can be in saying where your influences are coming from. Like maybe we could have played a few years later with the Zepp Boys to put it in its proper context and been totally lame.

Anyway Spiral Collapse split because it basically wasn't doing what I wanted and the rest of the year was spent looking for other people for this new band which was going to be called The Mark of Cain, the name being derived from a Herman Hesse novel.



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By this time I was pretty ****ed off, I was reading all this stuff like Kerouac, all those books you're "supposed" to read, and from them I was left onto other authors like Dostoyeysky and Hermann Hesse and it just went on and on. There was this Herman Hesse novel called "Damian" which was about a guy who is basically a loner, and I really liked the idea of this interpretation on The Mark Of Cain. It was a sign, its like walking down the street and being different, all the adolescent angst. In those days you'd walk down the street and look hard and dare people to look you in the eye, and say "**** off I'm, alone". It meant a lot at the time anyway.

Kim: It wasn't a physical manifestation, it was a mental thing.

John: Yeah, it's like you hear people say "hey see that guy, stay away from him", and I liked that idea, I like that upfront macho, or whatever you want to call it, image kind of thing. So I said "right we'll call it The Mark of Cain and search for the right people to be in the band". Kim was an obvious choice as bass player, even though I hadn't used him in Spiral Collapse.

Kim: John was friends with Peter Engleberger from uni and very available for the band, whereas I was doing my second year of engineering and I hadn't picked up my bass for about three years.

John: So what's new?

Kim: Yeah I'm at that stage again now, anyway Peter Engleberger wanted to play whereas I wasn't up to scratch then.

John: Yeah so Engleberger did everything that was needed and he was there. Anyhow I said "**** it I'm going to do my own band The Mark of Cain", and had this idea that it would be me and Kim and two other people. I'd come across Rod Archer at this party that Spiral Collapse played one night, he was working doing roofing at the time so his hands were all cut up and mashed and looked really good. I thought "this guy looks pretty hardcore" so we approached him and he said he could sing and was recruited as vocalist. It was difficult at that time because we'd all just got into music and were having trouble putting out ideas into practise.

Kim: And we had Gavin Atkinson who we'd both known from school, and Spiral Collapse, filling it out.

John: The band was just stop and start from the end of 1984 onwards. We were trying to get things right and kept practising for ****ing ever, there was a million songs in the set, some Joy Division covers and loads of our own. Things really started in the summer of 1984-1985 after I'd finish uni. After a while though Gavin quit out of frustration with the others.

Kim: I couldn't even play bass even back then, and Rod was barely singing, so Gavin was saying to John "how can you be continuing with this, isn't it frustrating for you?" He'd play in the Westminster school band Hogan's Heroes, and was even teaching drumming at that stage, he was that good. So he was getting really fed up with us because of our incompetence, and it wasn't the style of music he liked anyway - he was into heavy metal like Van Halen and Deep Purple - so he left and joined a Cold Chisel covers band.

John: Then we got in this guy called David Graham, and there was this ****ing chronic personality clash between him and me for some reason straight away. I don't know what the problem was, but he didn't like me from the word go. He was really laid back and almost a hippy, although he was really a goth. Later on I met him at gigs and found him to be fairly rude, he seemed to have a big chip on his shoulder about the whole thing.

Kim: He was a big ****head basically.

John: Then for a while we worked with a drum machine.

Kim: A small, basic one we'd picked up.

John: David Graham quit on Rod's birthday, he rang up and said "I quit" and Rob replied "that's great, thanks, on my birthday". I remember Rob and I sitting there and doing a few songs which I've still got somewhere, with the drum machine. I'd picked up the drum machine up for about $160, a really basic one, and it was intended as just something to play along with until the next drummer turned up. We used to have one song called "The Helicopter Song", which was centred around the drum machine being run through a graphic equalizer and making helicopter type sounds.

Kim: That eventually became "Suppression" with some changes and no helicopter sounds.

John: We also wrote a few songs with the drum machine which sounded pretty good, but we thought there was no way we could actually use it as part of the band.

Kim: It was such a piddling little thing.

John: Besides we thought "who uses a drum machine?", no-one uses one of them. Of course we'd never heard of Big Black back then, that was when they were first getting going. It was funny , I'd often say to Kim back then "I'd love to use a drum machine to do a whole lot of music", and I wish I'd got off my arse and done it.

Kim: We could have been in parallel with Big Black.

John: It's a pity we didn't pursue that avenue, but we decided to stick at being conventional , and another drummer turned up a while later. Yeah 1985 was certainly a year of change because I'd run into you and your crowd by then Harry. By the end of 1983 I was back on speaking terms with people from the King Bees and we formed this part-time band called The Swinging Doors, doing soul, mo-town and some r'n'b stuff on odd occasions. WE did one performance in 1984 on the mod's easter weekend in Victor Harbour and a couple of pub shows. We did a few shows over in Melbourne as well during 1985 which is where it fits in here.

Anyway, we'd gotten together this one time with the idea of not worrying about anything, and it was basically the original King Bees except for the bass player. On bass we had John Rickert who was another guy in that scene who should have been there all the way through in the first place.

So this was all going on at the same time as the primordial Mark of Cain. There were a lot of hassles then with people not getting on with one another. We had two girls singing and that was terrible, you can imagine the paranoia when the males of an audience got going. This was easter of 1985, I'd finished at uni and was working as a lowly slave at the South Australian Film Corporation, hating every minute of it, and at the same time The Mark of Cain was going through seemingly endless drummer problems. One of the girls singing in The Swinging Doors was Stephanie Burke, who was involved with Michael Blackwell, and through him I got to meet all the people at the "commune" - like Chris Wiley, Hermann Lauss and Fear and Loathing in general - and was told to go along and see Fear and Loathing play one night for a laugh. Marel was still singing for them at that stage. So I went along and sat through what seemed to be a 40 minute version of an extremely slow Black Flag song, with the people I was sitting with saying "isn't this great?" while I was thinking "this is ****ed, it's going on too long, its ridiculous!". I was kind of in awe of all those people at the Princes Berkeley that night, The Mark of Cain hadn't started laying and here were all these people out performing regularly. Anyway, I somehow endured Fear and Loathing then Sister Sludge came on, and it was their last gig. I thought they were okay and collared their drummer afterwards - Roger Crisp - who agreed to join The Mark of Cain. Things picked up after that because we finally had a drummer who could remember the beats from one rehearsal to the next and was actually interested. our overall musicianship had improved by then and we were writing songs, it was probably our first stable line-up. We were still finding it hard to get a direction because we were still heavily influenced by Joy Division. We had our own vision of the desired singing style and Rod didn't quite match up to our expectations of what was wanted. Actually that's not quite right, Rod's an adequate singer but his style wasn't right for us.

Kim : He was struggling to get his ideas in, and also he was a bit shy in the practise room and not sure how to get his suggestions across.

John : I'd often be saying to Rod "sing like this" and "do that" which wasn't the greatest for him, and it became pretty obvious that he was becoming uncomfortable with the situation in the band in general. I don't know if it was what he was singing , but more likely the actual style we wanted him to sing in.

Kim: We did our first gig September 1985 at the Union Hotel, in place of The Plague who'd pulled out at short notice. There were all these skinheads there, huge nazi skins galore everywhere, saying "oh excuse me I just want to use the toilet" so they'd walk through past the door and get in for free.

John: Nothing much more happened that year until just after Christmas when we were supposed to play at the Princes Berkeley one night with I Spit on Your Gravy and Psycho Farmers, neither of whom bothered to turn up. It ended up just being us performing, while people milled about asking for money back as we played and it was pretty bad all round.

Kim : We were doing a Jesus and Mary Chain song then called "Never Understand" which seemed appropriate.

John : The PA went wrong, Michael Blackwell was supposed to be mixing, but after being "straight edge" for ages suddenly decided that night to get drunk at the Tivoli. We were left sitting at the Berkeley and couldn't get the PA working, but he eventually staggered in and thing sort of shambled into motion. Aside from that we were the first band to play a Jesus and Mary Chain song in Adelaide we'd really forget that night. Rod ended up leaving soon after that and we didn't do anything for a while.

It basically came to a climax with an incident of a dog getting run over, but we without going into all the ****in details suffice it to say that I felt pretty bad about it all. This dog that Rod's girlfriend owned at our place got hit by a car one day and was fatally injured. Rather than just see it lie there and die a lingering death I finished it off by hitting it over the head with a car jack, and I felt like **** afterwards. Everyone there gave me a hard time about it, and things were finished off between me and Rod with him saying "you deserved to have to go through that." So that was the end of that, I was out of that house and moved in with John Rickert soon after. I should point out though that Rod and I are back on speaking terms since that.

After that we decided to try it as a three piece with me singing, because there was still that intention there to at least do something. We'd done some recording with Rod, then went back into the studio as a trio, basically to re-record some of the stuff we'd done with Rod with me singing instead.

Kim: There was an alternative version of "Here it Comes Again" which became "Visions of Love" with John's singing and new words. That was the start of John's taking over on vocals.

John: I'd done some singing during the last few desperate moments of the King Bees. I'd always done backing vocals then when we became The Jump and did some punk songs I sang lead on "Interzone" (by Joy Division) and "Crocodiles" (by Echo and the Bunnymen), so I'd had my first taste of lead singing which was okay but I didn't really like it. When Rod was still in the band I used to sing at rehearsals sometimes, with new tunes I'd hum or sing to chase the melody line around while we worked out the music to it, the Rod would follow on from that and pick up what I'd worked out. All the same though, it just wasn't working out, so after he'd gone it seemed obvious that if I had a strong idea of how I wanted things done then I should do it myself.

Once I started doing the singing myself I felt much better, and because I was doing it there was only me to blame if it didn't work. Maybe I do have a bit of an ego, but I felt that if I was writing the songs maybe I was the best one to present them, so to speak.

Then Roger left to go overseas for a few months and it looked like we'd have to stop for awhile.
I was living with John Rickert at the time, who was in another band at the time called IS %, and there was a drum kit set up all the time at his place. He offered to fill in for Roger while he was overseas so we could keep practising, so we took him up on it.

Kim: He was brilliant.

John: It was great, he had a real feel for drumming and we started re-writing our old songs. John turned out to be the key for us to make a whole load of changes and suddenly get all these songs happening. We brought in a sort of "quality assurance management" and we ruthlessly culled the set. Essentially after all the stop and start of the last year this was when the band properly started. We'd been doddering around for a long time with all these half - arsed songs that were never really working out, we were practising around for a long time in Roger and the band was solid enough, but we didn't seem to be getting anywhere. Then all of a sudden during that three months with John Rickert, as I've said a million times, it all started to work out. Songs that had previously sometimes worked and sometimes not worked, started to work all the time. Other songs it was painfully obvious just weren't up to scratch so we ditched them .John just instinctively knew what beats to put in and was articulate enough to be able to talk about things and re-arrange songs, and just basically had an open and inventive mind.

Around that time we also had this idea for a silly rhythm and blues band that we were going to call the Astronauts, but never happened, John played bass. I played harmonica and Kim played drums and we'd **** arse around doing all these old r'n'b songs, John and I both having extensive r'n'b backgrounds. Kim had this German flying suit that he used for working on his motorbike, and we thought maybe we could all get those and look like astronauts, hence the name. It was just a bit of a stupid thing for us to play different music in a different guise.
We did a show with John at the Tivoli while Roger was away, supporting Lizard Train and the Mad Turks, and to this day people still sometimes come up and say they remember seeing us for the first time at that gig, so it was another great step forward for us. After that we just kept jamming with John and write songs. Then Roger came back and we took up with him again and it was really different, it just wasn't working.

Kim: Yeah, so we said to Roger after a month or two "we're not enjoying it anymore, I think we should part ways", so we did. And it just "happened" that a couple of days later we found ourselves jamming with John Rickert again.

John: It was Thursday night and we'd just been to see Roger and were driving home, when I said "let's go see John and we put forward the proposition of the band resuming and would he drum", to which he agreed. So the seed was planted that night.

Kim: Just an hour later.

John: A few days later we started practising with John and it all started happening again and it was really good. From there we started playing regularly at the Royal Oak and Ventralia Hotels for the next year of so, with King Snake Roost and Fear and Loathing and Bloodloss. I'd formed Raw Power earlier that year with you then joined Fear and Loathing a few months later, so I was well and truly entangled in the quagmire of your crowd. But that was good because we were playing with a lot of bands, and my involvement in the other two groups was slightly the catalyst to The Mark of Cain getting more gigs because I was meeting more people. We were very very lucky around that time because we never really had to ring up and organise shows, it was just people saying
" hey do you guys want to play on blah blah night?" It was really good, those shows always got us a minimum of 20 people which would just cover the cost of hiring the $70 PA, so it was fun. I remember one of the first times we did a gig with John after Roger had departed, he rang up and said " it says in the paper that The Mark of Cain are playing tonight, isn't that a bit strange?" , so I had to say something like "ah no, we are actually", we were caught out. We had in fact had a show lined up to do with Roger at one stage after he got back from overseas, but a couple of nights earlier, Kim and I decided not to do it and then told Roger the band was finished. Perhaps that wasn't the best way of getting out of it, having been through the experience myself of getting kicked out of a band, I'd probably rather be told straight out that I wasn't wanted, than to have the band dissolve around me and then reform later with new members.

Kim: Roger would come and see us sometimes at gigs, and every time he turned up we'd end up doing a band show, sort of a bad aura would lower itself on us through guilt.

John: Yeah, so we kept on playing then the question of doing some recording came up. Towards the end of 1986 there was this thing...Kim had been working on a design of a small wheel vehicle as part of his mechanical engineering degree. He had to build this things kind of like a go-cart with a petrol engine, and get it to trundle along with maximum fuel efficiency, so it'd need a light weight frame, decent engine, etc. He and all the other people on his course had to take their vehicles some place interstate to actually run them, and the whole debarcle was video-ed. Later on one of the course co-ordinators approached Kim and said "I understand you're in a band, wouldn't it be good if you could provide some sort of soundtrack to the video, and make it like some sort of "total" production for the students." So we got together around a 4 track recorder and recorded some songs. Obviously we couldn't spend a million dollars on it, and they didn't like what we eventually submitted. We decided it would be best to do the tunes as instrumental renditions, partly because we didn't think it would be all that crash hot to start with and if we put singing on it it's sound really ****ed because we didn't have the equipment to record it well. I might dig it out one day and dub some vocals and do something with the tapes. By early 1987 we were thinking about doing some serious recording. First up Raw Power had hired some gear one weekend to record a couple of songs in someone's lounge room to be used on that Stooges' covers compilation album that Au Go Go put out. That ended up only taking one day , so after they'd finished we went in and used the equipment for and afternoon to try up only taking one day, so after they're finished we went into Bartells Street, this time with Kim Horne at the helm. He had a good reputation and all these people had told us he was really good, like Dave Mason - and it was the last time I ever believed anything Mason told me (joke Dave).

Kim Horne was good from the point of view that he could take a song and all it's component parts and put it together as a good recording. The problem was that he wasn't all that interested in our point of view, he took it upon himself to determine how the songs should finally come out. I don't know if it was because our playing was ****house back then, but nowadays we just go into a studio, lay down the tracks and its fine. Back then there was all this bull**** going on, and Horne and Elliot were crapping on to each other about all this technical **** trying to impress each other and us. They raved on about how many decibels they put at this frequency, and that sort of stuff that I was quite familiar with from my job. They were going on about putting some particular on a recording and I was saying "why are you bothering? no-one will be able to hear it." So they started up about the filtering of sounds for broadcast, and I replied that "the bandwidth for broadcasting is so narrow that they cut off at this particular point and you're worrying about a frequency that's way past it which means it'll never be heard." So we argued on about it a bit more, and they finally admitted that I was right, and we just got ****ed off with all the **** as they tried to impress us with their so called technical knowledge. Kim Horne had just finished doing some studio work with "the Mice man". and he just keep on going on about the Exploding White Mice this and the 'Mice that, etc. - who the **** wants to hear about another band when you're in the studio recording your own stuff?

Kim: He'd refuse to do things and say "I don't want to put my name to that", refusing flatly to do what we wanted.

John: The problem came down to us paying him our money to be our engineer and he kept telling us what to do!

Kim: We'd remind him of who was employing who and he'd grumble about how he had a reputation and he didn't want his name put to it if we did it that way.

John: And do you think we gave a ****? It made it very difficult to work in that situation with a guy imposing his whole view of music upon you, when all we wanted was someone to do what we told them to - like record this and mix that. If we want the bass up loud then do it and don't argue.

Kim: The only reason we needed someone like him was that we didn't have the skills ourselves to operate the recording equipment. We didn't want creative input from him, just his technical skills - an engineer, not some over inflated producer.

John: We knew what we wanted, but that was just part of the learning process. Every time we've gone into the studio we've learnt something new. Anyway we recorder sever songs with him and sent around cassette copies of it to all the independent labels that Harry could think of and waited. Mr Spaceman in Melbourne said they were interested, one other labial sent a rejection slip, Doug Thomas said to come and see him again when we'd done another demo, and that was all the response we got to over 20 demos that were sent out - really courteous of the others - then Phantom Records rang up from Sydney and said "hey guys let's do something!" , so bang we were on a label.

By this time, spring 1987 we were still playing the Royal Oak and Centralia Hotels every couple of weeks, then in August Big Black came and changed everything. King Snake Roost were helping co-ordinate the Adelaide show and got us a support spot at the gig, so we got to play this bit show in front of all these people with a band that used a drum machine and they were the best things I'd ever seen. We were really tight by then after all the Royal Oak gigs and all those nights of playing to 20 people really paid off.

Kim: People came up to us after the Big Black show and said "what happened to you guys?" they're seen us four months earlier at the Royal Oak and were impressed by how much tighter we'd become.

John: It was amazing, listening back to tapes of the show it doesn't seem all that great to us, but it obviously made an impression on someone. Anyway the next time we played the Royal Oak there were loads of people there and from then on things in general just got better and better.

Kim: There were some low periods, but basically after the Big Black gig we started rising up.


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The other side of it was getting musically inspired by Big Black as well. They were a really entertaining band, and listening to their music I could hear all this stuff in there, so we incorporated what we could of their power and stuff into our songs. I always say "good enough to steal." We never borrow something that remains theirs, we steal it and it becomes ours, and that's a lot different. The call from Phantom came soon after that, and we recorded a pair of songs for them in January 1988 at Soundtrack Studios. That was a very straightforward production, and Bob Allan was very easy to work with.

Kim: He was very open to ideas and whatever we wanted he helped us with.

John: Yeah, we went in, did the two tracks in one day, mixed it and sent it up to Jules at Phantom in Sydney, and he was a bit funny about it.

Kim: He said it was too distorted and I think he'd basically hoped we'd do different songs to the two we'd given him. He was after some of the more commercial sounding songs from the demo we'd sent him.

John: I don't know what the problem is with that guy, but from then on we started having trouble with Phantom, and John Rickert was also getting a bit "funny." He was starting to work on a play for the Fringe side of the person and all of a sudden in the practise room he blew up one day.

Kim: He used to be calmest guy ever, never lost his temper or anything, then bang!

John: I was thinking ****, what's going on? There was this hassle with me, I'd moved out of his place by this time, but it wasn't good. All of a sudden Kim and I thought, "hey, this is how bands split up", we'd never thought there was anything wrong.

Kim: We thought it was going to go on for ever and ever, it had all been harmonious for so long.

John: Then bingo! There were all these hassles. A lot of it was with me, that I was having too much "armour" up front and not being sensitive, and this was the direction the band was heading in as well. He saw us as getting harsher whereas he'd rather it was all stripped down and bare, so the "sensitivity factor" was more prominent.

Kim: John Rickert had different musical ideas, he liked a lot more or the New Order type stuff, rather than the heavier Big Black things that were influencing us two. He wanted to do more of the softer, more intricate stuff whereas we two were after the heavier material, and John Rickert ended up feeling he wasn't having an creative input or getting any satisfaction out of the band. Anything he'd put in brother Scott here would over-rule and say "that's a bit pansyish."

John: For him to say he had no creative input was wrong, because everything he did was creative input and we couldn't have been who we were without him, we couldn't have had any other drummer. Its absurd that he got all those paranoid ideas. I'd written "Battlesick" and "Dead Man's Mail" towards the end of 1987, and John Rickert wasn't at all happy with them, although he was okay with "You Are Alone." We actually recorded that along with a bunch of other songs one afternoon in a garage. Fear and Loathing had met up with this couple - Anthony Bannister and his girlfriend Samantha - who owned a PA that they'd hire out to bands. They invited FAL to tape a bunch of songs sing the PS set in their shed, and playing "live."

That was how I got to meet them, and we did the same thing a couple of weeks later, wasn't the greatest tape in the world, but it was good of them to help us out. Anthony ended up being our mixer for the next few months, then they both moved to Sydney. Anyway, there we were in early 1988 having these problems with John.

Kim: He finally cracked one night at the Century in the middle of playing "Wake Up."

John: I turned around to him and said "this is ****ed' and he thought I'd said "speed up" and he exploded! Chucked his drum sticks away ...

Kim: One of them hit the back of my bass, then he kicked his drums over and walked out.

John: That was it, the end of the gig.

Kim: This was about two in the morning and someone yelled out "hey don't break up fellas!", so John Rickert turned around and said "too late, we already have."

John: That was one of those bad nights at the Century, the PA wasn't working well and all manner of things were going wrong, but there must have been something else going on , because it's not like John to blow up like that. But what it was, he won't tell us.

Kim: The greatest part of it was probably that play he was putting on. He'd put up $2500 of his own money into it, and they were rushing around to get things ready, people weren't working well with the play, the script kept getting re-written and John was basically just getting really frustrated with it.

John: And on top of that he was trying to play with us, so it was just one big hassle.

Kim: He came around a couple of days later and we talked about it. He was upset and we were upset that he'd done it in the middle of a song in the middle of a gig. We'd rather it had happened offstage. he apologised in the best way he felt possible.

John: But it was just no good from there, he just couldn't come back as far as I was concerned.
It might not ever have reoccurred but it was better to leave it there and finish it. I'd been writing songs with the aid of a drum machine during the preceding few months and bringing them to rehearsal, songs like "Battlesick", John didn't like a lot of that, he thought "Battlesick" sounded like Big Black, which I thought was just a knew jerk reaction against the new material. So we thought **** it, after John went we bough a new and better drum machine and considered getting serious with that, while writing new songs. We still didn't get too wrapped up in it because we more of less got another drummer within a month or so in the shape of Neil Guiver, so we rehearsed with him for about 3 months then started playing gigs. At first it was really good with him, he was such a good drummer and with his thrash background he could do all these really fast drum rolls that fitted in perfectly with our changing overall musical direction. But at the same time I think he was feeling held back by us because what we were playing wasn't thrash. So because we had him in the band there was this punker element coming to see us who thought we were too slow, but at the same time I think they appreciated the power. At the same time there were problems with drugs and alcohol within the band and it didn't mix in too well, and finally there was a personality clash between me and Neil - once again between me and a drummer. Neil wanted the band run on democratic lines so everyone got a say, whereas I was sure that when that happened I wouldn't get done what I wanted.

Kim: It was weird because whenever we'd get a new drummer John would lay down the rules, like "if you're going to join then understand that I know exactly the sort of stuff i want to do and a lot of it will be us telling you exactly what we want done." and in the onset they'd all say "yeah that's fine, I'd like to work where I'm told what to do, I'd really enjoy that." Then two months later they'd be turning around and saying "why can't we all write something?"

John: When I started playing drums with Fear and Loathing in 1986, and later in Raw Power, it gave me a good understanding of the scope of what drummers can actually do. I'd always been telling drummers what to do, ever since The Mark of Cain first formed. and I was never a very good drummer myself, but actually playing them made me a bit more conversant with the realities of pounding a kit. A lot of people don't know how to set up a drum kit and crack one down, but all of a sudden I had first hand knowledge of what a kit was for and how the different parts were used, so I guess it made me even more demanding of our sticksmen.

Over the years the band had evolved into Kim and i with our vision of what it should be and various other people coming along on the pilgrimage, but **** knows what we're after now, its changed considerable I think a lot of it was adolescent before, that whole "loner" approach. The initial push was to do this Joy Divisionish "angry young man" sort of theme, but now the band is progressing all by itself and has become self evolving.
Anyway were were playing regularly at the Alma Hotel in those days, the middle of 1988, still with Fear and Loathing tagging along as support, which made for hectic nights for me, and they'd be the odd problem in The Mark of Cain sets with guitars bouncing around on stage and harsh words.

Kim: That was in part because Neil wouldn't be in a fit state to play, we knew he could play better and he'd be mucking up songs that he shouldn't have been mucking up. Fair enough if you stuff up new songs that still need more rehearsal, but not when its songs we'd been doing for ages.

John: Neil and i still argue to this day about the drum stool incident at the Alma. - I maintain he fell off his stool and he says there was a hole in the floor and the stool got caught in it and fell down.

To this day it remains a bone contention between us. Anyway it became obvious after a while that things weren't going the way we wanted them to, so we said **** it and goodbye Neil.

Kim: There were plenty of times we said "okay let's get out **** together."

We gave him a couple of ultimatums and it's be all right for a while, then he'd regress.

John: It was basically an open ended thing at the time, along the lines of "you get it together and we'll take it from there." We sorted out the money we three had earned together and gave him his third but said "if you want to rejoin you'll have to repay this money."

We recorded some stuff with him, three of our songs and two covers for a Phantom compilation album. Jules had this idea for a tenth anniversary release for the label whereby the bands currently on the roster would record cover versions of songs by the initial crop of Phantom bands. So he sent us this tape of the old songs, all of which seemed pretty awful.

Kim: 24 terrible songs.

John: The Visitors' songs were the only ones we thought were any good, so we did one of them, plus another by a band called The Shy Impostors. We worked them out in about a week, then Kim and I recorded them in the studio with the aid of a drum machine.

Kim: Neil didn't care about it, and wasn't the least bit concerned while we did some work with a drum machine, unlike some other people we've worked it.

John: I wouldn't have cared either if I was a drummer.

Kim: It was all the one session, three of our tunes with Neil drumming and the two covers using the drum machine.

John: Neil was great in the studio, got all the songs right on the first take, good versions, and we ended up using one of them on the "Battlesick" album. On the other hand, Jules still complained about the two songs we sent him.

Kim: He said they were distorted, over distorted with too much levels, etc.

John: He ended up thinking they were ok and they went on the album with no problems. On the other hand we were having a lot of problems with getting the single out. The whole situation with Phantom was a perfect example of the same old thing that manufacturers don't let the band have a look at the artwork, at a one-off sample of the record, before plunging into the production run. They always just go screaming through and that's how you get these stupid ****ups. In our case Jules sent down the singles and I said "they're great, but you've got the labels on the wrong sides" and for some reason eh tried to blame me for that. I never did manage to work out why Jules did that, somehow it was supposed to be my fault, which ****ed me off severely. This was after it had taken months to come out and in a much smaller pressing run than we'd originally been told. First it was a thousand then five hundred and ended up being just 380 gong on sale, or thereabouts. With the wrong labels I really felt that the whole lot should have re-pressed, but Jules wasn't prepared to do it because of the money. I think that in cases like this your reputation is on the line which is more important than just a bit of cash. he proposed instead getting some stickers made up to put over the offending song titles, then sending the stickers and records down to us for us to deal with. I told him we wouldn't do it and he replies "I'll have to pay someone to do it then". I though "if you can't be bothered checking what you're getting pressed up and consulting with the bands, why are you running a record company?"

As I've stressed repeatedly over the years the biggest problem with Phantom was that we were separated by a vast distance so it was hard to communicate effectively. Whenever we were in Sydney he always had some sort of excuse for never being able to see us, but he'd always be gushingly friendly on the phone. The final crunch came when we sent him some tapes of the newer stuff, he wasn't as responsive as he'd been to the older Kim Horne produced poppy stuff. Even when we did the two songs for the whole single he wasn't too enthusiastic, the same with the stuff we did for the compilation album, but later he changed his mind and said they were great. I want to work with people who are 100% into our music and don't jump from saying "it sounds terrible" to "wow its great" the next. Jules attitudes were too diverse and polarised. It was interesting that the words "I've been moved" were inscribed on the run-out grooves of the "Lords of Summer" side of the single, not only do they make up part of the lyrics of that song, but also because of the labels fiasco.

While all this was happening we'd met up with Aaron and Kelly Hewson who were just starting up Dominator Records, when they invited us to submit some stuff for their debut release compilation album "Are we Still Here?" We gave them "Attrition" from the Kim Horne session and a remixed version of "Visions of Love" that we'd recorded with Roger Crisp, and struck up a good relationship with them. We also discovered Artec Recording Studio around that time, which is where we recorded with Neil, and both encounters were to serve us well in the future. We went on to have more trouble with Phantom later on when the "Battlesick" album came out, Phantom had lost money on the single and Jules felt he had deserved first look in on future recordings. We'd never signed anything with him, and whatever verbal contract which might have been said to have existed between us had no legal standing because it went across state borders. For a while towards the end of 1988 we had a vague plan to record two mini albums worth of material and share out the songs between the two labels - with Phantom getting the pop stuff and Dominator the newer, harsher material. That was when we were trying to be nice to both lots of people. In the end though we decided to bite the bullet and stuck with Dominator who were near at hand for consultation and abuse, and we got along well with.

Anyway, after Neil went I got right into programming the drum machine and Kim and I worked with that for a few months and did some good gigs. We wrote a whole bunch of songs and some of them we haven't played since, largely because they relied so much on the nature of the drum machine. You can play with different aspects of the drum machine, we used to work at playing along with it's tightness.

Kim: You can rely on the definite gaps and cutting off of everything, whereas it was hard to get those as defined and sharp edged with a live drummer.

John: We still planned to get another drummer and spent early summer auditioning people, with three rehearsing with the band - Jeff from Life After Reagen, a guy called Chris and one Campbell Robinson. At the time it looked like it was going to be Jeff.

Kim: Jeff did really well, learnt all the songs in a week and was spot on with his playing.

John: It would have been Jeff for sure, but there was this drunken country bumpkin that I met when I was with you Harry one time at your local pub. This **** pot who talked to me, and someone said he could play drums. I just didn't believe it, that this awkward gangly looking kid could do anything, but we gave him a go. So he turned up with this ultra flash drum kit after having just two days to work out the songs.

Kim: He had all the beats down perfectly and he was young and enthusiastic.

John: The fact that he was enthusiastic was one of the deciding factors with him. It was either going to be the unknown kid or the known guy, and we decided on the newcomer.

Kim: Jeff was already in another band and he didn't want to quit them, so that could have led to problems sooner or later. On that score it was easier to go with Campbell.

John: Jeff was going to be the guy until we met Campbell, but the kid joined and ten days later we did our first gig. In that time he'd learnt the whole set pretty much spot on and ti was fine. We then played on until Christmas and got ready to do an album early the following year.

Kim: between Christmas and new year's that year we went up to Sydney to record a song for the second rooArt compilation album, which turned out to be a debacle and a half.

John: I just got this phone call one day "its Justin van Stom here, we're doing this compilation album, do you guys want to be on it?" So I said okay and he replied "well you better get up here real quick, we haven't got much time."

Kim:" End of December is the deadline, all the other bands have recorded, you have to do it up here, and you've got to get up here by the end of December to do it" which was a complete and utter lie - a year and a half later and the album still isn't out.

John: We thought we were going the recording and the mix on that day, because that's what we'd done with everything else back here. We got up there and were made to work like ****ing pigs and treated like **** and spent a whole day recording with a guy who gave us a hard time. He wouldn't do anything we asked him to - similar to Kim Horne - and we left without it being mixed. After all the mad rush to get us up there to record it they turned around and told us the mix down was going to be done on another day - unbelievable but typical of the **** around that those people give you. So we came back to Adelaide and waited, the recording was done in December 1988 and we thought the mix would be in easter 1989, but nothing happened. Then in the end they mixed it down themselves.

Kim: What happened was that around christmas 1989 they had a week of spare studio time booked for a band who pulled out at the last minute, so seeing as they were stuck with the studio booking, rooArt got in the guy who'd recorded us plus another guy and they spent the week mixing down all the bands' songs. They mixed us with no idea of what we were like, never seen us live, didn't know where John wanted his five guitar tracks dropped in and out, and thought they could do a reasonable job. End result is that it sounded like a bass and drums track with none of the subtitles of John's guitar in there, except in one place where it appears they suddenly realised there were some guitar tracks elsewhere on the master tape and dropped a bit in. They put some okay effects on the vocals, but not enough.

John: I'd done a double vocal track but they only used a single one in the final mix. It could have been a really good extra special version of the song because there was a lot of good stuff in that recording, if they'd let us have a hand in mixing it, but they ****ed it up completely. They'd never heard anything else that we'd done - what kind of audacity have these people got to think that they can sit there and work out how the song is meant to sound! The deadline for the album was set at April 1990, so we were given the option of getting up there before then to remix, which was plainly impossible.

Kim: Yeah, use it all in studio time and producer's expenses, so it was in the producer's interests to keep us in there as long as possible. We recorded 20 renditions of the song and the last was barely better than the first.

John: So it was all a big bull**** scam, they just did it to use up all the money they had.

Kim: Campbell had played live with us once or twice by then, but this was his first time in a studio.

John: The guy in charge was playing up to him, who said in turn "I reckon he's all right." We just got generally rooted around, but that's because we were working with industry people and they're just totally ****ed. That's the bottom line.

Kim: Looking at Jimmy Barnes gold records on the walls of the studio didn't help much either.

John: Anyway after we finally got to hear their abortion of a mix down we told them to get stuffed and said we didn't want to be on the album. They rang back and said "no we want you on the album" so we told them they couldn't use that version of the song and instead they could use the one from the "Battlesick" album, and lease it from Dominator Records. They replied that that would be okay so long as we let them have the publishing rights and everything else - basically they wanted us to sign our lives away to them. So we told them to forget it and they told us that we were the guys who were missing out. By this time all the other bands were trying to pull out as well, and they rang up again and said "we'll use your version" so we sent up the master tapes. That was fine then they started harping on about us signing over the publishing rights to all our music before, they'd put us on the album, so we said shove it and give us back out master. This went on for ages, they'd ring up demanding the publishing and copyright and everything else and we'd say no, you have to sublet it from Dominator. Eventually after dozens of stupid phone calls and a ridiculous contract that Kim sorted out, they used our version of the song on our terms - no publishing or anything - and **** em too! After all the **** we had to put up with, Kim and I flew up to Sydney to record and Campbell took the bus up from Bendigo - a dodgy experience at the best of times - all up we had to pay out at least a thousand dollars between us, just to get up there for the recording and got nothing back apart from some bull**** about an imaginary advance. Just can Stom, an ex-waiter, in charge of a record company, what a terminal ****er! The first half of 1989 saw our final transition to being something significant in terms of audience appreciation. Once again we had a stable lineup, so you could put it down to Campbell's presence as to why we got somewhere. Stable lineup, good gigs, not letting people down , new songs and the album happening all brought good dividends. There were other things happening too.

Kim: When we'd played the Alma using the drum machine just before Campbell joined we'd get good crowds.

John: Yeah, and there was Where's the Pope? too. Frank would always mention us on stage in their gigs, wear our T-shirts and try to educate their audience - I think that helped a lot. These kids there going "yeah right, god Frank says this band is okay, so let's go and check em out fellas."

Kim: We recorded the album at Artec Studios, having done the Phantom compilation there earlier on. We'd also worked on the stuff for the Dominator compilation there, did a new vocal track on 'Visions of Love' and re-mixed "Attrition." We found that Stuart at Artec was easy to work with and really good to bounce ideas off, so we went back there to record the album.

John: 1989 was the year of touring as well. We went to Melbourne with the Exploding White Mice one weekend, then back there a bit later with Order of Decay twice.

Kim: Yeah, all told we did Melbourne three times and Sydney once. There'd been a failed attempt at some Sydney shows at the start of 1988 that King Snake Roost tried to set up for us, but most of the gigs were cancelled and there ended up being only one left, on a Sunday, and we had to get back at work on the Monday, so we called the whole thing off. John and I still went up there for a holiday though. The Melbourne show got a bit of a mixed reaction, people liked us but there'd always be something else on at the same time. Either an international act like Dinosaur Jr or T.I.S.M would decide to have their last show, or the Hoodoo Gurus would be playing down the road. There'd just be some big band playing so we wouldn't have any of the peripheral audience coming along.

John: Sydney was great when we went up there.

Kim: The first two shows took a little while to warm up, but there were people there to see us for sure. "Battlesick" had been out for a while, people had heard it and had come along to finally see us live.

The third show was at the Journos Club where we played at two in the morning after King Snake Roost - their last show before going off to America - and the place was packed. There were muso type people present as well, and one of the greatest compliments was someone from Mass Appeal saying "we're glad you guys don't live up here." We played really well that night, slammed through the set and it was really great.

John: In between times we used to play around here regularly and started writing stuff for a second album, and having a few problems with Campbell. The worst was one night when we had to pull out of a gig with the White Mice at short notice because Campbell didn't come back from Bendigo in time and left it too late to tell us. Very embarrassing. Early in 1990 it looked like he might be departing from us, so we rehearsed with Aaron Hewson for a couple of weeks, but Campbell did reappear so it was all okay. Then there were other "events." We were offered the chance to play at the 2JJJ inaugural broadcast gig, but turned it down because it was one big **** around. We felt that the bands chosen to play at it were hardly indicative of the current music scene in which were playing. Although the lineup covered a large cross section of music we didn't feel comfortable playing in such a set up. Plus we were offered the headline after the Exploding White Mice pulled out, but we'd never been offered the chance to play in the first place, even when the Mice were going to do it. Also there was hardly any benefit in it for us, a live recording perhaps, but the ABC could not give us a satisfactory answer on whether any such recording could be used for our own purposes - ie put it on vinyl. Altogether there were too many holes in the organisation so we thought **** it. This also gave Campbell the chance to go home and visit his parents in Bendigo.

Instead we played a support to Spy vs Spy at the Old Lion. The explanation for that was that for some incredible dumb reason I thought that it would be a good experience for us sociologically. The money wasn't good, just $250 when we often got over $500 at our own shows and we had to supply luggers to help set up the PA and help pack it away at the end of the night. Anyhow as soon as we got there we knew it was a bad mistake. The place was filling up slowly with Spys, Midnight Oil, Cold Chisel, INXS ****heads all dressed identically and acting identically. The stage manger asks where the **** had we been, why didn't we turn up for a soundcheck etc. I explained to him that no one informed us of any times, we didn't receive a worksheet and he then more or less suggest I'm a ****ing liar. There was no room on the stage for us because the lame ****head who drummed for them had his drum kit on a huge platform, so we were cramped on a small section of stage at the front. Campbell couldn't even be seen, just his sticks occasionally rising up into the air to hit a cymbal. All the dumb ****s there for the Spys were actually singing along with every song the DJ played and even clapped at the start of each song.

Anyway the crowd hated us, not enough to throw cans at us, but enough that on stage we could hear people saying "this is ****" - never mind.

At the end of the night we helped lug out the gear, supplying four people (Kim, Pav, Jonas (a fan) and me) to pull down all this ****. Four people working for one hour is the same as two people working for two hours which is what they wanted us to do, so after one hour of labour I asked for the money, got it and went home. Then at 2.30am I got woken up at home by some lame **** of the Spys yelling at me 'cos we'd gone home, so I told him and his lame piece of **** band to go **** themselves and hung up. So the bottom line was - it was a ****ing stupid show to do and I wish we never had, but just the same it's one I'll remember.


continued.........

[dreamkillers]

continued......


John: After Spy vs Spy we went to Melbourne and Sydney again during April and played a bunch of shows which were okay. The Melbourne ones weren't all that received for some reason, although I've since been told that every second person at a Melbourne gig these days is wearing a "Battlesick" T-shirt, but i suppose that's probably more because the design is more popular than our music. We did four shows in Sydney which were really good, up there the same time as Hack. I got a ghastly cold - the usual thing with my **** weak sinuses letting me down - and finally got to do an interview with "B-Side."

Then we came back here and I got ****ed around by my employers about when I was going overseas, my departure ended up being postponed for for a month so there was a seemingly never ending string of farewell gigs, kind of like The plague used to do. The last few shows were really good, especially the final one when we packed out the Old Queens Arms. So there was them, I got married and in amongst all of that we recorded the second album, and that was a bit of madness in itself, given that we were in the studio trying to finish mixing it down hours before the last gig, and I left the country first thing next morning.

The sound on the two albums is markedly different partly due to the equipment used to the studio - the second one was done on 16 track 2" master tape as opposed to "Battlesick" being recorded on 16 track 1" master. Obviously more tape means more music and a fuller sound. Secondly the production was undertaken with different objectives. We had planned to go for a very live sound on the second album, but we found it just wasn't feasible in the studio, there must be a way of doing it but we haven't been able to find it yet. The kind of full sound, with the sound pressure levels - that I always talk about - that we get playing live couldn't be reproduced in the studio. At gigs I usually yell rather than sing, but as soon as I did any vocals like that it didn't sound right, so I think it's better if you have a more controlled thing.

All the same the productions was aimed at being a little more "up front" and less refined, trying to move a little closer to a tough sound that represent us better as a live band than a studio one. Every mix was approached with a "mix it live" style in mind. Of course it ended up sounding a little less extreme than it does live. Certain parameters that are always present in live work can never be realised in a studio - like spill, acoustic build-up of bass and bass drum interaction, vocals, etc. I think to a certain extent we tried to give it more depth, there's a myriad of guitar tracks buried in the mix. There's at least three main guitar tracks in there as well as a couple of others in the back ground that come through from time to time. The more you listen to the album the more you'll hear all these other little things happening an dI think that's a good thing to do. When I first hear the disc I was disappointed, I'd had my own ideas of how I expected it to sound but I've grown used to it now and really like it. Nearly everyone I know though who likes the band has hated the record when they first heard it, basically because they didn' t like the production.

On "Battlesick" there hadn't been any immediate plan for how we were going to make it sound. The production was as it came and I guess this now forms the basis of all comparisons. On the whole I feel that "Battlesick" could have been rougher in production (more of a live feel) but its smooth sound gives it a longevity. Certainly there's also a marked musical difference between the two records, "The Unclaimed Prize" is a much more guitar orientated effort in the way the songs were written and played as well as recorded, whereas the first album was a much more bass dominated thing. Its probably also a sign of the way the band has evolved from the bass dominated Joy Division-lsh beginnings to how it is now as quite a different beast. Also Kim hasn't written a decent bass line for ****ing years, if he'd write another one like the "The Hammer" it'd be great.

The simple reasons why the second album took so long to come out are (a) problems with the artwork and (b) the fact that I wasn't here to push it along. Bigheaded as it might sound, if I'd been here I would have got the whole thing happening a lot quicker, and made decisions earlier to change the artwork. At separate times we had three different people working on the cover and they all did good work, but it just wasn't what we wanted, and finally we settled for a much more simple and direct design. I think the packaging we've got is great and it gets commented on which is very nice. Right up to the end though there were hassles, in the final printing run the printers made a mistake and they had to get redone. Meanwhile the actual records had been sitting around in Dominator's office for a month waiting for the sleeves. Conveniently though it finally came out while I was back here so we could do some gigs to push it. I was evacuated from Israel in mid January and we did five gigs -Le Rox, where it was standing room only, Old Queens Arms, Old Lion Hotel supporting the Butthole Surfers, Le Rox for the album release show and Old Queens Arms again for another farewell gig. That last show was probably the best and tightest that we've ever done. We didn't get Campbell back into the band for these reformation gigs because it would have been too much of a hassle.

First we would have had to try and track him down in St Kilda, Melbourne, then get him to leave the Tattoo Removalists for awhile and get him back over here. Then it would have been the same old problems we always used to have - where's he going to stay, who's going to cart his drum kit around, who's going to look after him, etc. The fact that he's got hair down to waist has nothing to do with it, despite what you keep trying to insulate Harry. Organising things was going to be a pain - like rehearsals and stuff - but here we had Aaron who could do it all. We'd rehearsed with him for awhile last year when things were looking dodgy with Campbell, so he knew all the songs anyway. He had time on his hands to organise band practises and do a lot of the basic running around for things - Kim and I were flat out at our jobs - he was always on time for rehearsal and had his act together totally, Campbell's mother wrote us a letter which basically gave us a dressing down for apparent lack of loyalty towards him, but heck the Tattoo Removalists are going really well as far as I know and I'd be surprised if he even wanted to come back to us. I would like to have done some new songs for those last fe shows this year but there wasn't time. I had a few new songs which we looked at in practise, but we usually need a month to work up new songs or even longer and that time just wasn't available, That's pretty much the reason why we didn't tour up to Sydney or Melbourne either - just no time.

Normal Records in Germany will be releasing "Battlesick" shortly in Europe, and "The Unclaimed Prize" later in the year. Hopefully in October or November we'll tour Europe, and the end of my secondment overseas for work should match up pretty well with Kim's so maybe we can spend a month in America and do some shows, and try to get something released over there. I imagine Aaron will play drums for that, basically because I can't see Campbell doing it. There's the thing of Aaron being one step ahead because he's played with us very recently, and also because he's better from a financial point of view, as well as being more under control as a person. There might be a single released sometime in the future being a couple of songs let over from when we did "The Unclaimed Prize." They still need vocals and one of them might benefit from a different bass line, and maybe we'll try and get someone in America to mix then down.

When Kim and I get back I can see the band continuing, but it won't be a group orientated towards live work. Instead I see it as us practising a lot, maybe playing occasionally, doing another album then taking it from there. I also think that getting our records released in Europe might backwash into Australia, sort of overseas success acting to boost our standing here. I also expect I'll start another band next year. I'll probably be writing songs while I'm away and recording them on a 4-track, but while The Mark of Cain has been a good vehicle for my ideas up to now, I've got to look at doing something else as well.

We did think a few times about getting in an extra member. Rod played guitar a couple of times, and we got Alex Vuchovich to play guitar on "Never Understand" once at a gig in 1986 at the Royal Oak but he just hid behind his amp and it didn't really work out. We considered it on a more substantial basis in 1987 and 1989, largely because I was feeling the pressure of having to sing and play guitar at the same time, and I often ended up feeling that I wasn't giving 100% to either of them. The idea was to get in someone else which would free me up to be more of a front man. However when we tried it we found that with the extra guitar it was just no longer The Mark of Cain. First up we rehearsed with David Mason for a couple of weeks in 1987, then tried again with Stuart Silcos in 1989. Working with Stuart was delayed for a while after all his gear was stolen, but he and I ended up jamming for a while when Campbell was away, then the four of us supposed to play support to PIL that year and needed an extra member because of some Musicians UNion rule - PIL had four members. so the local band had to be the same size. THat all fell through when PIL decided not to play Adelaide, but we did one show with Stuart anyway, at the Century Hotel. It all went all right but basically though its never the same with an extra member, the songs change and both times I realised that I liked playing guitar, and I liked there being just one guitar. I think there's enough happening in the songs with just one guitar.

"Battlesick" wasn't meant to be some sort of glorification of war, or even necessarily to have any military basis at all. All it meant was weariness of battle, weariness of life, and just being tired of the endless battles that go in life. We could just as easily have had a picture of a weary housewife on the cover and it would have meant the same thing, but I happened to really like to photo we ended up using.

"The Unclaimed Prize" doesn't have quite the same meaning as the song of the same title. To me The Mark of Cain are in someway "The Unclaimed Prize", to some extent I feel proud of the band and how we're somewhat separate from most other groups. Also "The Unclaimed Prize" relates to the loner, the "prize" being a special human (aren't we all?) who sits unclaimed.

The three bars that appear all over the cover of "Battlesick" have nothing to do with Black Flag or Henry Rollins, instead they were something that came out of the original design Agravaine did for the record. When she laid out the lettering for the band's name she found she'd done it in such a way that it had the three bar look, so she decided to repeat the basic pattern in other places on the cover, even to the point of using it as a kind of spacing device on the front between the LP title and the band name. That pattern also occurs on the back with our individual names. It was just a symbol we thought looked good, and we thought that if there was some sort of symbol associated with us it would help people identify with the band. It doesn't actually stand for anything, although there is something minor behind it. The Romans used to tattoo their prisoners with various marks to indicate what crimes that'd committed, like an "m" on a murderer or a "t" for thief. We in turn thought that maybe some sort of "mark" associated with the band would be good, and the three bars served that purpose. There's also another link in that there's three of us in the band, but there's certainly nothing mystical about it.

The insignia on "The Unclaimed Prize" stems from our German label Normal. They wanted some sort of image to represent the band, and came up with the idea of these two square things that look a little bit like they're interlocked and caught up with each other, and at the same time are trying to separate and get away from one another. They were trying to set up something that represented the inner turmoil that the music suggests.

The inner struggle, sort of trying to free yourself of angst as well as being caught up in it. The basic layout of the artwork on the albums will be the same for the European releases as it is here as far as the set out goes, but there'll be different photos. They'll have the band name and the title, but half the cover will be filled with some blurred fuzzy photograph, although we haven't yet seen their final proposed designs. They're going to package both albums in a similar manner to set up some sort of continuity between them. There's a dedication to a chap named Boris on the second album. He was a guy who came to all our shows when we first went to Sydney and knew all the lyrics to all the songs. When we went back again he was there again, and I wrote to him a couple of times from overseas, I eventually got a letter back from his brother who said Boris had karked it, he'd died of some unspecified illness, so we thought we'd do something to commemorate him.

John: We were trying to set up something by putting messages in the runout grooves on the records. On the first album it was meant as a bit of a joke "Campbell, a lugger's nightmare" which was so true. He was terrible, the worst person in a band as far as pulling his weight went. I can hardly remember a single time when he was willing to help carry equipment in and out of pubs. The "why so hard, why so soft?" was just a vague comment on the music itself.

We had a whole list of ideas for the second album, but Kelly didn't get his **** together enough to have the ones we finally chose included on the actual record. So its all his fault, and I was really annoyed that it didn't happen. That's something that's a part of The Mark of Cain and it ended up being just another stuff-up with that particular record and I was very disappointed. At one point we were going to make Kelly and Aaron go out, buy themselves engraving pencils and mark up every copy of the record themselves.

We had a promotional video made up for the song "Battlesick" off the first album, that's been shown on TV once or twice, we've had more airplay of that on ABC TV than on the ABC's youth radio station 2JJJ, which would be typical of the whole thing. Maybe now we've played with a hip groovy band like the Butthole Surfers they'll notice us. Anyway, the "Battlesick" video went through a few changes before it hit the big screen, because the initial cut of it suffered a bit from lack of direction. The guy who edited it didn't quite know what we wanted and he interpreted it in the way he thought it should go which ended up being not quite what we wanted. I sent Kim a fax saying how I thought it should be changed, the alterations were made and I thought it turned out to be really good. Its got a bit of film of the band playing live, some of Mark Chapman, some footage of a church, me watching something about Vietnam on TV and there had been a car in it - like all Adelaide bands have in their videos - but it got cut out. We'll be getting a video done for "The Unclaimed Prize" LP too, something set to the tune of 'Four Grey Seasons." There's still plenty of footage left from the first one that we can use.

We've had two gigs filmed, one at the Tivoli in 1989 and another later that year at Le Rox. I'm sure I was sick that second night - I remember running out the back after we'd finished and spewing up my meal from the BBQ Inn - so the performance lacks a bit. They're both of the whole show, and someone filmed our last gig last week, I don't know who it was but we'd certainly like to get a copy of that.

The philosophy behind the band has changed now and become self perpetuated from what it began as. When the band began I thought of Kim and me and we always wanted another short haired person. I thought about the sort of stuff I'd like to experience in a band. There was a particular sort of music, which is what we were trying to write and a certain strong visual image, which revolved around three guys with short hair and Doc Marten boots.

Kim: Some conformity about it, something or some band that would immediately conjure up an image in people's minds when they heard the band's name. My hair's been short since birth, well at least since early highschool, same with John. I remember in first year high school some guy coming up and saying "all you need is a hole in the top of your head and you'd be a fully fledged peanut."

John: It's not very trendy to think in terms of whether an image suits a thing, but I thought that if people could see it, and its an aligned image of three guys who are dedicated to this particular style - which it was with me, Kim and John Rickert, and later with Campbell - then it would mean something. It doesn't matter so much now, but back then the idea was to present people with this short haired band image, something powerful looking, not playing fast thrash. it still looks hard but its playing powerful slow music and that was what I wanted to see. That's basically what we wanted the image to be a few years ago. The Mark of Cain philosophy was that "loner" sort of aspect, and funnily enough we've nearly always seemed to have been kind of outside the scene as a whole too.

Kim: We've certainly never had any groupies or hangers on at all, all the other bands we've ever played with have had entourages and groups of friends who'd come and see them, whereas we were always very alone and isolated.

John: One thing about not being part of the scene is that we've never been bogged down with long free lists at gigs. Free lists are one of the most terrible things ever invented in music.

Kim: We've never had mammoth free lists that's for sure, its usually just been one per band member.

John: There was a backlash of sorts against us last year which just happened to start when we first began getting big crowds. Its like if you're still being yourself when you start getting popular, like if I was an arsehole back when we weren't anything people would thing that was okay - "hey he's just an arsehole" - but if you get popular its not acceptable and you're seen as being totally up yourself. It's like after a gig if some people come up to talk to you and you're feeling tired or whatever or just want a few minutes to wind down and you don't want to talk to them straight away you get labelled as being up yourself. Of something that's been happening a bit nowadays is that since we've been more popular I get these new people wanted to talk to me or whatever and I'm not about to tell them to **** off just so I can make myself available for the "old faces" to yabber to. yet I get told I'm up myself because I don't go out of my way to ignore everyone else in favour of people I know from the past.

Kim: It's like when you go to a party, you never get around to speaking to everyone in the room. You might catch up with them later on and its "oh yeah I didn't get to talk to you that night" or whatever, and its no problem. If they get upset about that its pretty ****ed.

John: I reckon there's a lot of people who come to see us now who are there because its fashionable to see us. That's the way it goes, we've been flavour of the month for a while, but it won't last.

Kim: It might be because there's nobody else around, most of the other big bands have had their day or deemed to have had their day. Then again, I've had people come up to me and say "I saw you the other weekend and it makes my week because the lyrics and emotion in the music give me an outlet and my life better." We're not a party band, we're not a thrash band making political statements, its sort of thinking person's music.

John: People who are serious like it because they can still be sensitive and at the same time be a bit thrashy energetic. Its hard and soft, a "grunt" band with soft sensitive bits.

The Vietnam thing for me goes on several levels. Partly the outsider thing of some guy coming back from Vietnam and because of what he went through that he's apart from everyone else - that's the battlesick aspect. There's also another thing for me left over from childhood. When I was six I thought the war would still be going 12 years later and that I'd have to go and fight in it and end up dying, and that scared the **** out of me. My childhood was always hearing about the Mekong Delta and these things happening on the news, and I can remember getting books in the school library and reading stuff, and seeing pictures of American soldiers in the Mekong Delta and stuff, and just being drawn to it. Yet another train of thought goes along the lines of how short mortal life is compared with the infinity and eternity of reality. Like you're alive for x amount of time, but after that there's still eternity to go until the end of the universe. Something else was that I had a pre-occupation with death when I was young and I didn't want to die, I didn't want not to exist. I'd wake up in the early hours of the morning worrying about it - that's the "3am wakeup" - and that's where a lot of lyrical motivation came from. Also extreme things, like way, very extreme things and murder is very extreme, and people die and this morbid fascination with the idea of "what's it like when you know you're going to die?" or that you know that death is inches away, its just one minefield away. That thing of being on the edge and that close to death, and reading about people's impressions of being in that situation, and I have an appetite for reading literature on those topics. I used to have much more of an edge to me years ago in what I wrote, but now its like I'm getting out of my system.

Like the whole Vietnam thing when I got picked up by the movies and the media, its been done to death and it makes you stay away from it and i don't really get into it anymore, Its the whole of your life being on the line that concerns me. I don't really give a **** about the bull**** behind the wars and stuff. Like the guys at Gallipoli being ordered out of the trenches straight into a wall of death in the shape of continuous machine gun fire. Its probably a bit of a ****, but the feelings that you experience in that situation means something to me. I mean its a bit deep, yeah it probably is a bit too ****ing deep for your average dumb ****er who just wanted to get ****ed and slam out. Music probably isn't even the right place to put those sorts of ideas I've been thinking lately, and why even bother being in a band at all? When you play in a band for any length of time you get to a point where the self perpetuation makes you ask " why do we keep playing?" We met in the practise room for all those years when nothing was happening - what made us keep going? We just used to turn up and play, we didn't have an audience. For some reason we just kept on playing its so weird, we should have stopped four years ago really, we didn't have anybody, most bands give up after a year or two on average. We probably had three years of ****ing chaos with drummers leaving, no-one coming to see us, being called the most boring band in the land.

Kim: Maybe its because we kept losing members inspired us to keep going, whereas if we hadn't lost members then we would have been hitting our heads against the wall for two years and given up, but lineup changes just gave us more resolve to keep trying, As well there's the thing of "****'em if no-one comes to see us, we're just playing for ourselves" and you have that attitude until you die. There's also a strong sense of discipline in John and myself that is a hangover from our days of studying engineering. To be able to play and work and get everything done in a particular space of time you've got to be disciplined, which is something that's always permeated our time in the band. That's why we still rehearse twice a week and why we always work hard at gigs, whether there's then people there or three hundred. Other people who are involved in music have a lot more relaxed outlook on life and just don't seem to get as much done.

John: Like band practise is there to work on your songs, not just sit around and get stoned - save that for where you're meant to be partying. Gigging is also hard work, who knows why we still do it anymore. I try to write songs that I think will be good, but at the same time I know that deep down the underlying thing is I don't know what I want out of music. I've been doing it for so long now that its become self-perpetuating and I still haven't got what I want out of it, and maybe I never will.

Kim: Like what drives us to practise in 38 degree heat?

John: There's nothing better than practising in a hot room and you're sweating like hell, because you know you've done something.

Kim: You have to remember through that no-one ever gets as hot as Campbell, the way he carries on.

John: Band practise for us has always been a duty, you'd always turn up even if you were sick. It was twice and sometimes a three times a week thing and ti was treated like a job. Some people say "I wouldn't be in a band if it was just like a job" and obviously there is a certain amount of flexibility associated with the comment but we took it all extremely seriously. We'd be there at 7.30pm on the dot every time and be ready to play. We had no tolerance for people who would turn up an hour late, in fact I have no time at all for anyone, any band I'm in who can't turn up on time - it's a waste of my time. Certainly the work ethic has been a very important strain running through The Mark of Cain over the years. Since we first formed its been a twice a week schedule of practises. In fact back in 1985 it was three times a week - two week nights plus a weekend night.


continued........

[dreamkillers]

continued.......last one......:D


John: Mind you, I was finding it heavy going in 1986-88 when I was in Raw Power and Fear and Loathing as well. It'd be one rehearsal each week with them, plus two TMOC practises and a gig or two each weekend, which didn't do a lot for my private life. It's always been two practises a week for the entire life of The Mark of Cain, until 1991 when we only did one practise a week with Aaron. Occasionally we'd have a break, like if we did a Tuesday and Thursday rehearsal slog, then did a good gig on the weekend, we'd maybe miss the following Tuesday. Overall I've never had too much trouble with being in multiple bands because they've usually been pretty distant, not only musically but also in the instruments I played in them. The only one that was a hassle was The Rickettes, which was mainly because I didn't enjoy the people I was working with a the time. Sometimes it was a bit hectic, and towards the end of my time with Fear and Loathing it became a pain, I wasn't getting as much fun out of it as I had during the preceding two years. My life was getting crowded out with band work and I was getting the hard work from other sources to cut back on music a bit. Still it was good in those bands, Fear And Loathing was a lot of fun, they were good guys to work with and it was interesting doing "Dead Man's Mail: in The Mark of Cain and a different version of the same riff in Fear and Loathing. Then in Raw Power when we did "She Creatures of the Hollywood Hills" and that inspired "Wake Up" with some modifications. For every TMOC song I could probably tell you where it came from, its all written down somewhere in my big confession of what I poached from where.

My musical development over the years has been partly through other people's influence and partly my own discoveries. Like through Stuart I got into rhythm and blues, then Kim and I found Joy Division, then partly through you I got into Black Flag and other American music. Playing with Big Black finally crystallized a new musical approach that had been building up. Black Flag to me are a total American sounding band, but I could pick out Joy Division riffs in Big Black, and listening to Snatiago Durango during their soundcheck. he played a whole swag of Magazine and Buzz****s riffs, all that English stuff. I see them as being a real melting pot of different things, all these European styles put into an American context and that was easy for us to relate to. The change in our music and getting a hardcore drummer weren't simultaneous, the band was already moving in that direction before we got Neil. I was writing that sort of material anyway, then our drummer left and the guys who wanted to play for us had hardcore backgrounds. Since then we've changed again and I think our newer material, which went on the second album, is really rock'n'roll compared to what we've done in the past. The music changes and moves on from year to year, but still sounds like The Mark of Cain because we deliberately write that way. We can write songs that sound like whoever you want in the practise room, but we have to write Mark of Cain songs. TMOC songs have this Joy Division influence, so when we write a song we always put in this particular extra bit, which is often reflected in the chording pattern. Anyway, no matter what the songs have always got what we regret to as "the Joy Division bit" in them - maybe its the middle eight or the fade out or whatever, but its always there in between the rest of the components of the song.

There's been a very deliberate change in the music from the poppy thing of the first few year to the much harder, hasher stuff we do now. That's why John Rickert left, also because the rhythms were getting more complicated. That's also a progression we managed in that we could grapple successfully with more complex rhythms and introduce a wider variety of ideas into the fundamentals of the band.

I'm the one who used to sit down and play guitar and write the lyrics and thing up the basic arrangement to the song. It seemed that I'd always be taking songs along to practise, and I'd tell Kim the root notes to what I'd come up with and he'd devise a bass line as we went through it. Like "The Hammer" - the intro to that was all his work and the other little bits, like during the singing, that's what I wrote. When John Rickert was in the band we were all putting in ideas and I can say that John certainly helped write the songs. Like in "Attrition", I came up with the basic idea but Kim and John Rickert put in all the stops and starts and essentially made a song out of it. "Please Try Harder please" was also John and Kim, while "The Last Judgement" was Kim's lyrics and he sang to me how he thought it should go, and from that we came up with the melody. Anyway, that era I would say is probably the last time we had any real creative input from a drummer, apart from someone just having enough talent to be able to play well. When Neil was in the band it was mainly still "can you do this?" and he'd be able to do whatever was necessary straight away. Campbell was also really good in that regard, and to some extent when we were writing the newer songs he had a role in shaping them, based around his style of drumming. His drumming approach would somehow make the song a TMOC tune, but at the same time' I'd be saying "we need this beat here and that beat there," and that was the way I saw the song as working best. Basically I'd be telling him how I'd like the drums to be done.

Over the years we'd frequently have songs that we'd work on for ages then ditch without ever playing them live. Sometimes we'd write a song in one practise, the clearest case of that being "The Setback" - a very quick song, but it still underwent a few changes later on. A lot of times we'd have one riff, we'd play it for a while, then leave it to play the set then come back to it at the end of the night for some more work. We'd work on that riff, practising 2 or 3 times a week, then finally after a couple of months we'd reject it because it wouldn't be suitable. Then three months later it might suddenly be brought back in and gel perfectly. "Four Grey Seasons" is an extreme example of that, in as much as we used to play it in Rod's day then revived it again with Campbell and a new arrangement. Most of our songs took a long time to do and there were quite a few that never made it to live performance. there were even a few we worked on for years on and off, but still never came together.

Kim: John instigates most things in the band and I either cut it or change it.

John: Kim is the voice of reason. I'm like the broad band of "let's do this and this and that" and Kim's the quality assurance who trims back on the more extreme and unlikely concepts.

Kim: I try to push for things that I think will be good and effective, so we tend to disagree quite often. Its a combination though, if John didn't come up with the broad ideas I'd sit on my arse and not do anything.

John: Hermann Hesse was an influence only from the point of view of his book "Demian" which gave the band its name. I thought that was a good book but other stuff of his hasn't even moved me. That was all at a time of my life when I was looking for something and I was reading a lot of books. I think that if you can't get what you want from people then you get it from somewhere else, and films and books have always been a source of either backing up the way I feel or else show me something new.

Religion has never really played much part in anything we did. The school we went to was Methodist, though we're Church of England, which is fairly low key in the worshipping scale of things.

Kim: Its not as if we're reacting against religious upbringing.

John: I can't accept or hate any concept of a god, even though I was brought up with christian ideals. I went to Sunday School as a kid, god confirmed and stuff, but as time went on I drifted away from all that and god very cynical towards it. There's born again christians where I work and I have horrendous arguments with them. I've read enough about religion in the bible and stuff to be able to argue with them. It's not just "oh you're born again. you're a ****head mate" I always try to pick out the holes in what they believe - like born agains with all their beliefs who still go around squashing insects without a thought, I think all life is sacred, aside from all the individuals I'd like to kill. What gets me is the born agains who'll stand there talking to you quietly enough, but the minute they see and ant walking around they'll stomp it into dust for no reason at all.

Kim: I've seen that in people too. Its crazy, people will natter away to you all the while stamping these harmless little insects who aren't doing anything to hurt anybody.

John: I've got this religion that basically all life is sacred, and killing humans is the only acceptable thing. Humans know better but still do it anyway.

Kim: People go out of their way to hurt other people and living things, either physically or emotionally, whereas ants and things only do it for survival.

John: But then killing just for the sake of killing - I reckon some people really deserve it.

Kim: The hypocrisy of a lot of christians is that to them its only a Sunday activity, but I think John and I are probably more christian in what it actually means in practise then many of them. on a 24 hour basis.

John: Just because you don't have a personal relationship with jesus doesn't mean you're scum. You can never base the outside appearance of anyone on what's happening internally. Like Kim and I both lead comfortable lives yet we do this music and lyrics about "living on the edge." That's something that people often do wrong - they compare their own insides with other people's outsides, and the only people who really show their inner thoughts on the outside are those who are insane. A comment like "you play such depressing music but you've got such successful lives" was brought up when we were interviewed on 5UV one time.

Kim: Success is something that someone outside of you decress upon you. We're successful to the point where we want to be successful, but we're not successful in the same sense as Jimmy Barnes or Spy vs Spy.

John: When it comes to the nitty gritty. TMOC lyrics are to an extent an expression of my own morals. I think they have to be. I can't always put a precise meaning on the words to explain as I'm expected to. I think people get out of my lyrics whatever they want to get out of them ,its the same old thing - you read into them whatever you want to perceive from them .Our lyrics are written in a fairly abstract sort of fashion, so its quite easy to draw a number of things from the, It'd be quite easy to derive from them that I'm pro-war or anti-war of even that I'm just painting a picture of the emotions of war without making a judgement. There's a myriad or interpretations and people get all those different things out of them .When it comes to the crunch I'd say that whatever interpretation someone wanted to make out of our lyrics is probably valid to some extent. It might not be what I set out for originally. but if it means something to them then its valid. It's like if you watch a film and get all twisted up about it and base your while life on it, like "On the Road" - the Jack Kerouac story. You get people trying to base their lives on Dean Moriarty or Neil Cassidy, the guy comes across as being a really full on person who ****s lots of women and is a real tear about. The reality though is that he used to **** loads of ******s in toilets too. The novel was deliberately edited to miss out some of those bits. but someone reads it and gets the wrong idea. All the same its still their idea, and if they want to fulfil that section of it, well let em do it, just so long as they realise that there's a difference between their perception and what the author intended. So if people want to read our lyrics and form their own idea of what its all about that's great, like if it helps them through a hard time or makes them feel better or whatever, then that's great.

By and large my lyrics are a combination of me telling the world how I feel as well as just a more personal thing of exorcising myself. I used to write songs that were openly me saying how I felt to the world, but ideas that I was trying to put across, if that's not a contradiction. I try to write in a bit of a "fuzzy" sort of way so they can take it and although it won't be the same situation I was writing from they'll still be able to map it onto their own lives. Like they can identify with various points in the song, maybe from the same perspective that I do, but they come away with the same overall feeling. When I write I try to write stuff that I'd like to listen to or hear when I'm feeling ****ed up.

Lyrically I think I've changed somewhat in the direction of the inspiration. Earlier on I wrote from the angle of things being influenced by other people, whereas now its come along to things being cause by situations and just an overall sense of themes running through a song. I like to try and write short stories in lyrical form. I've always been introspective I think, and I doubt that I've even examined too much outside of the human psyche.

There's a couple of lines in "UCD" - "you give me special invitation to put you down with my fist, well this is one invitation I cannot resist." That's kind of me saying to society and all its moral values that I feel invited to hit back. ****y as it sounds, its kind of an anti-establishment thing, and that can be any "establishment" or established set of values, and that sort of strong rejection is something I can't always resist. In a way I am saying there that I condone force as a solution to a problem, but only in as much that its one of many possible answers. There's a whole spectrum of ways to deal with a situation - you can talk about it, you can handle it rationally and logically, and sometimes force is simply the best way to approach it. Force has got its place in the scheme of things and that its an innate part of being a human being. I don't think that its necessarily animalistic to use force, it's just a case of expressing a part of basic human nature. When I look at most of my lyrics I see an aggressive person. Then again we often put across things in the form of statements, and statements are often aggressive in nature. To stand up and say "I think this is this" or whatever is partially an "aggressive act," albeit a little one sometimes, and that ties in with us using "the" a lot.

Kim: There's two parts to us using "the." Firstly in the band's name - Mark of Cain sounds like Mark from the city of Cain, whereas The Mark of Cain is identifying it as a mark of some concept called Cain. That's why we get upset about not having a "the" in the band's name in advertising.

John: As for using "the" a lot in song titles, that was not really a planned thing. Like with "The Setback," you wouldn't have "a setback," it's the Setback. That's probably a bit Dostoyevskian to be slightly literary, like in a novel there'll be a series or circumstances during the story. It's "the" setback" and "the" trial, when you say "the" it means its important.

Kim: By using "the" you're identifying it as an important part of something.

John: It was never a conscious thing, and you'll notice that its only the older songs that incorporate it as part of their titles.

Kim: Its not something we've ever rally thought about before.

John: I think it also stem from when someone writes about a situation its "the" situation, not "a" situation. I suppose it comes across that we're making statements with the songs and their titles, but that wasn't really intentional.

To me its important that lyrics evolve, our lyrics have changed - they're still personal but from different angles reflecting the different way I look at life. I see myself as being the centre of my own universe, the nucleus around which everything else revolves, just like the way other people see themselves in that role. My lyrics are based on what I've seen and gone through, mixed with ideas I've picked up along the way, and obviously that's all changed over the passage of time. I've always seen most things as being black and white and generally taken some sort of stand. The only time its grey to me is when you're first observing the situation before forming the black and white opinion. THat whole things about having a definite view on a given situation probable comes through quite strongly in what I write, but I don't like to **** around with ambiguous mush mash. I've got no time for **** farting around trying to adopt the "acceptable" point of view - be yourself and admit to what you really believe, not what you think other people want you to believe.

Kim: Lyrics are a very important thing to me in music. I don't really like "pulp" stuff that doesn't say anything. A good tune occasionally and it'll be "yeah okay" but lyrics are a very big thing for me. I think they're a strong point for our music the stuff that John writes. If the lyrics were "pulp" or total crap I wouldn't still be here playing bass. Music that moves me or incites a mood, or makes you think, even if it gives you a good feeling or sends a shiver up your spine. So the emotion in music is as important as the lyrics. Visuals are something that's more important to me that they are to John, building on with the music. I think Campbell should get his hair cut, but you can only push so far. I'm amazed that people can have really short hair for a few years or their life then grow it really long for ever after, but that's just a personal thing. I can remember seeing all these mods who'd be pristine in their suits and short hair, then a few years later they were all daggy in old T-shirts and long hair reviving the hippie era, it amazed me that people could swing so much. But getting back to the visuals, the album covers are very important for me and I had some strong ideas about them which incidentally led to some interesting conversations when we were planning them, but that's another story. Joy Division always had very strong album covers, they might have been bleak but they caught your attention. Other bands have very busy covers that lose it. For "Battlesick" we wanted a stark cover based around the picture we finally selected. We worked on lots of different things, the picture was a starting point and after much thought we kept coming back to the basic stark design that was eventually used.

John: The Mark of Cain have always been a fairly humourless band, and that's why in the last couple of years I've felt a need to get another band going - basically to be a bit more relaxed. When this band started it was fulfilling a very intense desire to put that sort of music out, then when I was in Fear And Loathing that helped relieve another side of me, and maybe now The Mark of Cain can change and maybe I'll be able to relax a bit more. This band used to give me mental relief, while Fear and Loathing gave me a beer gut.

I've written all these songs that represent ****house times of my life and I really used to get into them .Then after a while I found I was going through this acting phase where everything was actually good in my life and it just didn't gel when I'd perform songs about how bad everything was. I'd be walking off stage after a good gig and feeling lousy because of what I'd been singing about, instead of feeling good.


Another interview I found that was done in June 2001 by Peter Strelen with John Scott and John Stanier.

If you thought The Mark Of Cain were brutal onstage, imagine the aural assault in the confines of a small, sweaty rehearsal room, somewhere in inner-city Adelaide . . . TMOC have locked it down in here four hours a night, every night for the past week, pounding out a 14-song set that will constitute their first national tour in two years. In these close quarters its not hard to see why TMOC are considered the musical equivalent of a crack military unit; tonight, for the last time, they stalk, surround, and ultimately shut down, with typical clinical efficiency and precision, the last remaining holes in their repertoire. By evening’s end even its leader John Scott – a perfectionist by his own admission – will declare himself satisfied that his band is ready to commence battle once again.

Right now, though, it’s the calm before the proverbial storm. The TMOC engine room has yet to arrive, and so the rehearsal space is quiet. There’s a pair of John’s faithful Rickenbackers leaning against a wall, a stack of ‘TMOC’-stencilled drum cases in one corner, and some TMOC CDs lying on a boombox. On one of the amps there’s an A4 size diary with the tour set list scribbled in it – about six new songs, six from ‘Ill At Ease’, plus Battlesick – and as I leaf through it John speaks of his absent crew with a quiet satisfaction.

“You put Kim and Stanier together and its like this block. Its like an immovable force,” he says, as he attempts to demonstrate with his hands what is an impossibility: the sound of one of the tightest rhythm sections in the world pummeling the listener into submission.

If you’re a TMOC fan, there are two crucial things you already know. One is that the band is about to release their first album of new songs in almost six years. The second is that the TMOC bottom end has been bolstered on this record by the presence of one of the best drummers in the world, former Helmet gun John Stanier. What you may not know is that the new album – entitled ‘This Is This’ – is undoubtedly their most savage release yet.

Ironically, the rough early demos that I heard two years ago suggested the complete opposite. The new tracks were slow and moody – at one point The Dirty Three’s Warren Ellis had been approached to contribute violin – and John felt sure that this was going to be the direction that their next album would take.

“I really don’t know what happened between then and now,” John shrugs. “There’s a lot of anger on this album. People have asked if there are any particular themes on this one, but I’m not sure. Its not as focused as ‘Ill At Ease’, which was the big breakup record, but this one . . .”

Many will attribute the increased testosterone level of the new record to Stanier’s presence. Yet, while it is indeed the case that the American wrote on at least four of the new songs, and while John Scott will readily extol Stanier’s undoubted virtues as a drummer (“He just gets it”), the truth is that TMOC records have been, and always will be, inspired and driven by Scott’s deep well of anger and bristling rage. The question is, then, whats the source – or, more to the point, who is the target – of the man’s frustration this time around?

“Retaliate, well that’s pretty obvious!” John begins, by way of explanation. “Second Hander; that’s about other people operating on second hand information and ****ing you around; Let Chaos Rule Supreme . . . yeah, I like control, I like to be in control of situations, but sometimes my life gets to a point where I can’t do that and the only thing left to do is to throw up my hands and say **** it, let chaos rule supreme . . .
“Lone Pine – I always said I’d write an ANZAC song, and there it is; Token, that is probably closest to the ideas on ‘Ill At Ease’, its about looking back and realizing, ok, I might have ****ed that one up; Sleep, its getting back at someone, but that’s also a bit of bravado, y’know, ‘I sleep better when I’m alone’, when the truth is, you don’t . . .
“Cut ‘Em Down, that’s the history of The Mark Of Cain distilled into one song. Right from the start we’ve been up against it. Never had any support, no-one ever thought we could do it, we’ve always been the outsiders, hence the line, ‘we were cut off before we began’”.

John allows himself to grin at this point. “Hmmm, maybe there is a theme there! I’ve had to deal with a lot of **** in the past few years. There’s obviously stuff you can’t quote me on, but I’ve been ****ed around personally and professionally, so if anything, there’s this feeling of wanting to get back at certain people.”
At this point John Stanier wonders nonchalantly in. Counterpoint to John Scott, who is wearing his customary black t-shirt, black shorts and black boots, Stanier is almost the epitome of the clean-cut American college boy: hair neatly brilliantined, knee-length cream shorts, white socks, black slippers (ask him what he thinks of Adelaide’s slow pace, though, and he’ll snort and roll his eyes . . .).

The circumstances which brought Stanier and TMOC together are serendipitous. Two years ago a fan – neither party knows who – posted a rumour on the TMOC website that Stanier would be joining the band.

“My manager told me about it,” Stanier says, as John Scott disappears outside for a cigarette, “so I checked it out and yeah, there it was. I’d known these guys for years, Helmet played with them back in ’92, and we’d hung out before. Plus, Kim was often in the States, so we’d see each other there. I’d always said to them, if you want me to drum for you, I’ll do it . . . I’ve always liked them, especially the old stuff, like ‘The Unclaimed Prize’.”

At the same time, the TMOC organization in Australia was also taking notice of the rumour. Managers talked, and before long the most logical of musical relationships began. It makes perfect sense that a musician of Stanier’s standing should be part of this band; TMOC is famed, after all, for music which is as complex as it is powerful. Yet even a player as gifted as Stanier admits to having his work cut out here.

“Pointman, I still don’t get it!” he says, of TMOC’s signature tune. “I know they’re engineers, and that they write from the inside out, but I still don’t know how they came up with that, there is some really weird stuff going on there with the drums!”
I remind Stanier that, in the grand old Spinal Tap tradition, he can expect to explode pretty soon, or die in a bizarre gardening accident. He is, after all, something like TMOC’s 11th drummer. The comment is met with a wry smile . . .

“We’ll see. We get along well. Its true that John is a control freak, but we take the **** out of each other. I just laugh at them . . .”
“Did he get stuck into me?” John Scott asks on his return. Stanier and I both lie and assure him that was indeed the case. In a moment brother Kim will appear, and the threesome will disappear into the rehearsal room, lock the door behind them, and proceed, as they will on stage for the next month, to systematically pulverise the set list. Welcome back chaps.


Hope you enjoyed the revealing interview..........and have you worked out the venue yet - a hint Santos mentioned it earlier in this thread when discussing Where's The Pope?.......


Next up Adelaide institution Exploding White Mice.........

[dreamkillers]

Exploding White Mice

Some say an Adelaide institution and certainly a band that is more recognised overseas than they are in their home country where even though their gigs are always appreciated by the loyal fans the numbers are usually on the small side.

The first time I saw them live was a support gig for the Ramones at the Old Lion Hotel in the 90's after which I saw them at their own shows at the Tivoli, the Old Queens Arms (which was an institution in itself during the 90's) and Le Rox.

Following on the steps of Radio Birdman, Exploding White Mice formed in Adelaide in the mid 80's, getting their name from the infamous cult U.S film Rock and Roll High School. Their first release, Nest of Vipers released through greasy pop, made an impact on the independant charts, peaking at the no. 2 spot.
The band got themeselves on regular national tours, and in 1989 got to support the Ramones on an Australian tour. By the 1990's The band eventuallly lost a lot of their following in Australia, but continued to attract interest in Europe. Their last album, We walk alone was released in 1994 by Au go go.

http://www.officialramones.com/site/photos/cb019.jpg

Discography

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_oasis.jpg
An Oasis In A Desert Of Noise - 1985 Greasy Pop compilation of Adelaide bands - LP (1985)
Tracks on 13 Down On The Street (Stooges)
Reference : Greasy Pop - GPR113

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_nest.jpg
A Nest Of Vipers (1985)
Burning Red
Bad Little Woman
Let The Kids Dance
Pipeline
Your Claws
Dangerous
He's Gonna Step On You Again [Bonus track on Normal]
Blaze Of Glory [Bonus track on Normal]

Jeff Stephens : Vocals, Lead Guitar
Paul Gilchrist: Vocals
Andy MacQueen: Bass, Vocals
Giles Barrow: Rythm Guitar, Vocals
Craig Rodda: Drums
David Bunney: Drums on "Dangerous"
Produced by Kim Horne at Studio 202, Adelaïde
Reference : Greasy Pop - GPR115/Normal records - NORMAL87

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_ewm7.jpg
Blaze Of Glory / He's Gonna Step On You Again 7"(1987)

Jeff Stephens : Vocals, Lead Guitar
Paul Gilchrist: Vocals
David Bunney: Drums
Andy MacQueen: Bass, Vocals
Giles Barrow: Rythm Guitar, Vocals
Recorded at Studio 202 - Engineered by Kim Horne - Produced by Horny & the Mice
Reference : Greasy Pop - GPR128

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_brute.gif
Brute Force And Ignorance (1988)
Fear (Late at night)
Goodbye Gravity
Worry About Nothing
Verbal Abuse
The Wheel
Surfin In A Dust Storm
Breakdown N° 2
Bury Me
Uninvited
Sea Of Justice
Hit In The Face
When I Get Off

Jeff Stephens : Vocals, Lead Guitar
Paul Gilchrist: Vocals
Andy MacQueen: Bass, Vocals
Giles Barrow: Rythm Guitar, Vocals
David Bunney: Drums
Produced by the Mice, D.R. Thomas & Kim Horne.
Engineered by Kim Horne.
Reference : Greasy Pop - L38912

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_hardtb.jpg
Hard To Beat - 21 Stooges Killers (1989)
Track 21 - Down On The Street
Different Mix to the one wich appears on the "An Oasis in a Desert of Noise"
Recorded at Studio 202
Produced by Kim Horne
Reference : Au Go-Go - ANDA70CD

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_ewm.jpg
Exploding White Mice (1990)
Sleepwalk
Intuition
Real Tough Guy
Do The Crunch
You're Losing Me
I jUst Want My Fun
Misunderstood
Ain't It Sad
Verbal Abuse
Meet The Creeper
Uninvited
Bangkok
King Of The Surf
Dangerous
First Time Is The Best Time (Bonus on CD)
Do The Crunch (Bonus on CD)

Jeff Stephens : Vocals, Lead Guitar
Paul Gilchrist: Vocals
Andy MacQueen: Bass, Vocals
Jack Jacomos: Guitar, Vocals
David Bunney: Drums
Produced by BB's Thing
Engineered by Nick Burton.
recorded at Rap's Recording Studio, Adelaïde - December 1989
Reference : Normal Records - NORMAL119 LP & CD

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_chil.jpg
Not the Singer But The Songs ... An Alex Chilton Tribute (1989)
Track 26 - Bangkok
Taken from a live non overdubbed concert in Queensland back in 1989
Reference : Munster Records - MR012


Collateral Damage (1992) - USA Release
And Stay Out
Enemies
In Your Eyes
Imaginary World
Human Garbage
Frozen Alive
Shadow On The Sky
Everybody's Waiting
Empty T.V.
This Is The news
When She Walks
Falling On All Sides
Tooth And Nail
Hate Mail
Blaze Of Glory
Fear
Verbal Abuse
Bury Me
Sleepwalk
Do The Crunch
I Just Want My Fun
It's Just A Matter Of Time
When I Get Off

NKVD Records NKVD1992
no other details available.......

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_walkal.jpg
We Walk Alone (1994)
Born Loser
51st State
Balance Of Power
Faceache
The Silent Treatment
Just Plain Bad
No Sign Of Life
Out Of My head
Something Wrong
Different Girl
We Walk Alone
Always Ends The Same

Jeff Stephens : Vocals, Lead Guitar
Andy MacQueen: Bass, Vocals
Andy Bunney: Guitar, Backing Vocals
David Bunney: Drums
Produced by EWM and Nick Burton at Soundtrack Australia.
Reference : Au Go-Go - ANDA172


A couple of articles of the band from the Noise For Heroes and NKVD Records (http://www.nkvdrecords.com/index.htm) site in 1990 and 1993


The Exploding White Mice #1
This is the first feature on the Exploding White Mice in NFH. It originally appeared in #19 in the summer of 1990...

This article is going to be fun to write...not that most of them aren't, but there's a certain batch of bands that really light you up, and for me the Exploding White Mice are one of them...they're one group that I always can count on to deliver music that I can like with no reservations. There's no question about "if you're in the mood for this sort of thing, put them on" or anything like that. I'm ALWAYS in the mood for the Mice, and you can put on any of their records and I'll be just about equally delighted. I've wanted to do a feature on them for quite some time, and persistence has paid off in the form of a LONG letter answering my countless questions from lead guitar player Jeff Stephens, which, along with old articles from B-Side (the great Australian fanzine, not the British poofter-rock rag from the US), Harry Butler's DNA, and Lemon are the main sources for what follows.

The band started in 1983 in Adelaide when Paul Gilchrist (vocals) hooked up with Andy MacQueen (bass), Gerry Barrett (guitar) and Craig Rodda (drums) for a one-off show at a party. Paul had never been in a band before, while Andy had been in bands called the Deviants and the Crunch Pets, and Craig was the drummer for the Screaming Believers. The set consisted of covers of their favorite songs, the intent being only to have a laugh. But they had so much fun that they decided to try to get a hotel gig, and they managed to get signed up for a couple nights at a local establishment. One of these shows was attended by Giles Barrow, who had played guitar for bands called Zippy and The Coneheads and Kaos. He ended up joining as rhythm guitar player. By mid 1984 these five started playing a regular gig at the Cathedral Hotel in the north of Adelaide. Towards the end of the year Gerry left and was replaced by former Spitfire and Tombstone Shadow Jeff Stephens, who was a friend of Giles.

The set at this time was all covers; Jeff sent me a tape of early live stuff including material from October 1984 at the Cathedral; by his reckoning about five people were in the audience (one of them being Liz Dealy, judging from the between song banter). From the sound of the tape, the band were a powerhouse from the start; they played raging versions of songs like "No Fun", "Born To Lose", MC5's "Shakin' Street", Gun Club's "Sex Beat", "Bad Little Woman" (on the mini-lp), and "Burn My Eye". December came and they were playing "Neat Neat Neat", "Pills", "King Of The Surf" and "You're Gonna Miss Me" at the Tivoli Hotel.

It would not take long for news of a racket this good to reach the attention of Greasy Pop's Doug Thomas, who wanted them to do a track for what was to become the first Oasis In A Desert Of Noise compilation. On the way to making their cover of the Stooges' "Down On The Street" they also recorded three other covers and two originals, which Doug liked well enough to decide to finance a mini-lp. But in the meantime, the band had to come up with a permanent drummer as they were still working with Craig on loan from the Screaming Believers. The choice was another former member of Zippy and the Coneheads, David Bunney. The band recorded one more original "Dangerous", with Bunney on the drums, and put out 1985's A Nest Of Vipers. The record packs a powerful instrumental punch, and there are many who argue that it's their best, but I prefer the tougher sounding vocal job that Gilchrist does on subsequent records. Still, there's no denying that it's a great record.

A Nest Of Vipers got solid reviews world wide and gave the band a solid push to the front row of Adelaide bands. The Sydney rock weekly RAM (now out of business) picked it as the top Australian record of 1986 over competition like Died Pretty's Next To Nothing and Free Dirt, the Eastern Dark's Long Live The New Flesh and the Screaming Tribesmen's Date With A Vampyre ep, all classics in my book. In the US, the record was licensed by Bigtime Records, a very unhappy experience for the Mice as has been related in the Greasy Pop feature last issue. Aside from never paying a cent despite sales reputed to be in the realm of several thousand copies, Bigtime altered the title of the record to In A Nest Of Vipers. Says Jeff: "Bigtime could not organize a **** in a brothel with their ****s wrapped in $100 notes. To change the title of that record was a petty, pointless exercise in showing us all "who's the boss". We weren't trying to get any sort of meaning across in our title, but why did they change it? They didn't even do it PROPERLY! On the spine of the cover and on the label it was still A Nest Of Vipers. It doesn't take much to work out why Bigtime went bust, and NO we haven't seen a cent from them (and are unlikely to.)"

This incident is worth mentioning because although being flim-flammed out of the bucks for a few thousand records may seem small in relationship to what mega-sellers like Guns'n'Roses make, for a small indie band it can set back the next recording by several years, since most bands have to recover their money from one recording session to pay for the next. It ****es me off severely to think that there could be more Exploding White Mice records in my collection if Bigtime had paid as they should.

At any rate, things had gotten off to a fairly flying start for the Exploding White Mice, but 1986 and 1987 have to rate as years of consolidation in which they played fairly steadily both in Adelaide and interstate to Melbourne and Sydney. In DNA #73 Harry Butler described one of their shows in Adelaide with Bloodloss in July of 1987: "Yet another night when the Mice exceeded all expectations - both their own and the audiences'. Although Bloodloss had scored a fairly receptive response it was obvious that this was very much a rodent crowd. The stage front area was crammed with a twenty row assemblage of eager bouncing bodies as the band launched into a tight, punchy set. A big advance on some other shows I'd seen; the main set had only three covers, matched against 14 originals which scored a better response than the non-originals by and large. It was during the encores that people really began exceeding themselves, and the look on Gilchrist's face when the crowd sang along on "Bad Little Woman" was a sight to behold. The best show I'd ever seen the furry ones do, and a crowd to match."

Two of the songs from this show, "Blaze Of Glory" and "He's Gonna Step On You Again", wound up on a single released in 1987. I'd rate it their most vital seven incher, given the presence of two great crunching songs not available on lp. The A-side, written by Stephens, is pretty close to my favorite all-time Exploding White Mice song, featuring some great shouts and a punishing riff. It actually showed up on a US compilation called The Bigtime Syndrome, buried with a lot of other bands that couldn't hold a candle to it. But more important was the fact that this single showed that the Mice could write a song as great as the covers they played so often, and for which they were starting to draw some criticism. "Ramones jukebox" was the most common tag.

So 1988's Brute Force And Ignorance lp was a critical point for the band, and on more than one front as it turns out. It contains 11 originals of power and melody that will stand the test of time. Doug Thomas swears it will be recognized in years to come as a classic, and all I can add is that I don't care if it is ever considered a classic...in my book it's a classic right now and there's no way you have a collection of Aussie records if you don't own it. But there was a lot of agony that went into its making and a lot of frayed tempers before it was done. Kim Horne, who had worked with the band on their previous records, started as producer, but by the end the arguments were fierce enough so that Doug entered the picture to help finish it up. According to Doug, a lot of the guitar tracks were overdriven in getting them onto the original master tape, so that mixing was a frustrating job of damage control. Coupled with the band's desire to get the ultimate guitar crunch, the result was a tense session with everyone displeased in the immediate aftermath. In the Lemon article, both Paul and David repeatedly express their disappointment in how it came out.

But time heals many wounds, and now Jeff reflects on all that with a broader mind. "I think that what were really a couple of off-hand comments by Dave Bunney were blown out of all proportion by a few people. Sure, we all think the production on Brute Force And Ignorance could have been better, but everyone thinks that about their record. The production on A Nest Of Vipers could have been better, too! I think that you don't get a true indication of what a band thinks about its latest record if you ask them soon after it's released - they're sick to death of hearing the bloody thing! Actually, I listened to Brute Force a week ago and it sounded great! Any problems associated with that record eventuated from too many opinions in the control room, and if anything, the lp was a bit over-produced. But we were going for the loudest guitar attack possible, and I think we came pretty close to getting it."

"Subsequent recordings have been (thank god!) much more easy going, and I think the new LP sounds great - sort of a cross between the crunch of Brute Force and the "airier" sound of Vipers."

The lp also spawned two singles, both of which are really only crucial to collectors as all the tracks are on the lp. But the first, "Fear"/"Without Warning" is significant since it pairs two of the best tracks from the lp. The A side is one of the slower things the band have done, and despite being based on the simplest of riffs, it still is impressively effective. The flip throws restraint to the wind and bashes away wildly. Great stuff.

The lp was not without casualties, however. Giles Barrow, who had been managing the band in addition to playing guitar and writing some of the songs, went on an extended sabbatical. At the time, Dave Bunney said that the band had been pretty much riding on Barrow's back, and that he had been fairly well worn ragged by the work load. Coupled with domestic (i.e. girl-friend) problems, says Jeff, this "caused him to hand in his notice shortly before the release of Brute Force, on the understanding that if the band found a replacement we were happy with, then so be it. If not, he would offer his services after a two or three month break."

As it turned out, ex-Primevils guitar played Dave Mason was looking for a new band, and he was quickly fit into the lineup, so Giles was gone for good. Jeff describes him as an "Afro-topped disco devotee", which seems a strange moniker for a fellow who has played on songs like the classic "Saw My Name Written On A Tombstone". The Primevils were a noisier, darker band than the Mice, and Dave's style was correspondingly less influenced by pop bands and more by noise groups.

Says Jeff: "His guitar style brought about a marked change in the band's sound. Definitely more noise oriented, whilst still being fast rock and roll. Dave was a very casual character who displayed a healthy cynicism towards the whole "Rock'n'Roll Band On Tour" syndrome one invariably falls into. This meant his time with the band was definitely relaxed and good fun, but I think in terms of real progress we may have marked time a bit (only one single in over a year)."

That single, "Make It"/"Ain't It Sad" fits the pattern of the "Fear" single...a moodier A side and a rampaging flip, both solid tracks, and both obviously impacted by Mason's playing style. Live the impact seems to have been no less, as Harry Butler reports from a May 1988 show:

"The big deal tonight was that it was Dave Mason's debut with the band. A bunch of the unfortunate lad's associates had gathered to heckle, and ex-rodent Giles Barrow had done his bit to "help" by stomping all over Mason's effects pedals, thus dramatically changing their settings. Out they marched and right from the opening bars of the first songs it was apparent that not only does Mr. Mason fit in brilliantly, but he also brings the band a whole new lease on life. This is not meant as an indictment of Giles, merely affirming the fact that the act of bringing new blood to any band can help by revitalizing what's already there. A bum note or two at a crucial point during the intro to "Fear" didn't cause a major upset (although it did inspire a few laughs), although rumors that he might continue to deliberately do it should not be dismissed out of hand. "First Time Is The Best Time" was a real ripper (especially when Mason starting using his effects pedals - see above). "Baby Sitter" struck me as being a bit turgid, but by and large the only major **** up was in "You're Gonna Miss Me" when Mason lost it completely for a while. Still, he's not known as the Fred Astaire of the music biz for nothing, and never before has such an inspired set of toe-tapping and on-stage bopping been seen."

During the summer and fall of 1989 Dave's work commitments were making it increasingly difficult for him to tour interstate, and as he valued his job he parted ways with the band on friendly terms. In October the band picked up Jack Jacomos to play guitar, Jeff says that with him the band has "returned to its roots, soundwise, while progressing in the writing and playing area. Jack's style is fast, loud, and tight, which is (hopefully) the way the band is currently sounding."

A new lp entitled The Exploding White Mice is finished and should be out as you read this (this being the writers way of saying he ain't got it to tell you about it, but don't let that stop you!). Jeff says that the band is really happy with it (that's a relief!) and he says some of the songs will surprise a few people. It's got a studio side with six originals and a live side recorded while on tour in Queensland. A single with "I Just Want To Have My Fun"/"First Time Is The Best Time"/"Do The Crunch" is due to support the lp, and I did get a tape of that...the A side is a light pop song for the radio, while the B-sides are both live. A studio version of "Do The Crunch" is on the lp; it's another brain-basher. The live side includes covers of "Misunderstood" (Saints), "Meet The Creeper" (Destroy All Monsters), "Bangkok" (an Alex Chilton song also covered by the Nomads), and "King Of The Surf" (Trashmen). It's also got 4 other tracks that have been on past studio recordings. The live side was recorded on a four track recorder, but according to Jeff it has come out pretty well "warts and all!".

It's especially good to see a new record on the way since judged only by their record releases, the Exploding White Mice seem a bit sporadic; they fairly well burst onto the scene at the beginning and since then have had a hard time making headway. "I guess that impression is accurate", says Jeff. "Although it may seem to far-off observers that we haven't really done much, we do play LOTS of gigs. I think we are definitely a LIVE band, and none of the records we've put accurately reflects the energy and power we try to achieve live. The main reason for the low output of records is that as songwriters we're not prolific (although this is changing lately - Jack is writing at a furious rate)."

"The band seems to play more often interstate than we do in Adelaide lately. Since 1985 we've played in Sydney, Brisbane and Melbourne many times and in Perth once. Sydney and Brisbane have always been great for us, with really good crowds and good reaction. Melbourne was a bit quiet, but our last couple of tours there have been WILD! I think that we're a bit taken for granted in Adelaide (that certainly doesn't apply only to us, either), and we sort of go through phases of being very popular followed by the complete opposite. I gave up trying to work it out years ago. We've always played for our own enjoyment first, and if people come to see us play, that's like a bonus."

By Jeff's reckoning things in Oz are in a bit of a lull at the moment. "About two or three years ago it was at a REAL peak with bands like the Hard-Ons, Massappeal, Hellmenn, etc REALLY popular. There are a lot of good bands around, though - I really like the Proton Energy Pills, Hard-Ons, the Meanies (from Melbourne), Horny Toads, New Christs, Rifles, etc."

There's a huge number of bands in a similar vein coming out of Sydney and Melbourne, bands like the Horny Toads or Splatterheads who are competent in their own right, yet still have a way to go to match the power and tunefulness of the Mice, but the size of their city seems to help them to reach much higher far more quickly than they otherwise might. I wondered whether the Exploding White Mice had ever considered leaving Adelaide. But Jeff seems unconcerned by the pace of others: "It certainly doesn't bother us that the bands you mentioned (and others) are getting the publicity they deserve, but yeah, being in Adelaide does mean that you have to yell and scream three times as loud to get noticed! All of the major (mainstream) rock magazines are based in Sydney or Melbourne and their complete refusal to even acknowledge any music from any other city is truly pig-headed and frustrating. In a way it's made bands like us stronger and more determined, so that by the time Adelaide bands (or Perth, Brisbane, or Hobart bands) get to play in Sydney or Melbourne, they're usually REALLY fired up and consequently create a good impression. I think a reasonable analogy is when the Celibate Rifles first played in London, people didn't know what hit 'em!"

"We've talked about basing ourselves elsewhere, but nothing has eventuated, 'cos we LIKE living in Adelaide, and Sydney and Melbourne are only a day's drive away. I think one of the reasons we do so well in those cities is 'cos we're only there once every three of four months."

I wondered if overseas support meant much to a band like the Exploding White Mice, or if they even noticed it at all. Jeff was pretty emphatic in response: "Overseas interest DEFINITELY helps Oz bands - I'm POSITIVE that if bands like the New Christs, Hard-Ons or Rifles couldn't tour overseas they would have split up long ago. Even though Oz is a huge place, its population is tiny and a band can play only so often to the same crowd of people. The prospect of new audiences is a LIFELINE to Australian bands."

Next up it's the Mice's turn to realize that prospect and show Europe what an Aussie band can do, as they're slated for a tour starting April 13th, including Norway, Sweden, Denmark, West AND East Germany, France, Britain, Spain and on and on. The tour, which will have concluded by the time you read this, has been slated for 8 weeks; VERY intensive, according to Jeff. The Mouse back-catalog has been licensed in Europe through Normal in time for the tour.

There's also some talk of touring Japan "but it's only talk at the moment", says Jeff. If that happens, a US tour will be next. I'm pumped. Then by the end of the year, they hope to do yet another lp (becoming positively prolific, as Mice will!). "And hopefully", says Jeff, "no lineup changes! Really what we want to do is keep doing what we have been doing, except to get BETTER at it and to INFLICT it on MORE people!".

I certainly hope they get that chance. Aside from their powerhouse music, the Mice have a refreshingly honest and realistic viewpoint of being in a band that I'm convinced can be heard in their playing as well. Jeff says even now that one of the best side benefits of being in a band has been that he's been able to meet some of his own heroes; he rattles off names like Glen Matlock, Rob Younger, the Flamin' Groovies, Johnny Thunders and the Cramps, and then immediately apologizes for name dropping! But the delight he shows in retelling the story of how they gave Joey Ramone an Exploding White Mice shirt when they supported them in Adelaide, and then finding that their friends had photos with Joey wearing it at the Ramones Sydney show a week later shows that he's still a fan at heart, and you get the distinct impression that placed in a similar position a few years from now, he'd return the favor to some other oncoming band fighting to find a deserved place in the sun.


continued........

[dreamkillers]

continued......

The Exploding White Mice #2
The second NFH feature on the Exploding White Mice originally appeared in NFH #22 in the winter of 1993 under the title: RODENT TO RUIN, THE EXPLODING WHITE MICE...

The year 1986 was the year I started becoming aware of all the great Australian bands. Smarter people knew what was happening earlier than that, but I was in the midst of a several years long funk that set in when I realized that all the promise of late 70s punk seemed to have been channeled into a hardcore deadend, and I wasn't really paying much attention because I didn't have much hope. So even though I was hearing good bands, it took me until late 1987 to realize that the Aussie scene was for real and there were some world class groups there. In their heydays Died Pretty, the Celibate Rifles, the Hard-Ons, the Stems, the Lime Spiders, the New Christs, and the Happy Hate Me Nots were as great as bands come. Some of these bands have split up now, and some continue making good music but not approaching their earlier heights. The Hard-Ons are perhaps better than they were to begin with but the rest have all lost punch to me.

The one exception of the great bands from those days is the Exploding White Mice. Working out of the obscurity of Adelaide, and unable to get recognition even in other cities in their country, the Mice may have benefited from never having cause to raise their expectations; they've always been the underdog's underdog. Thus the new Mice lp Collateral Damage has every bit of the power of their early records, showing the band take a step forward when their contemporaries are treading water or falling back.

The impressive thing is that they've done this despite frequent guitar player shuffles; Giles Barrow left after Brute Force and Ignorance, and was replaced by former Primeval Dave Mason for one single. Mason was replaced by Jack Jacomos for the second lp, but Jacomos didn't last long either and the band went to one guitar for a while. Now comes the big blow, as singer Paul Gilchrist has left. Losing a lead singer usually does most bands in, but not the Mice. Jeff Stephens, who in the past did heavy work on backing vocals and handled a couple of leads as well, has added the full time singing job and carries it pretty much flawlessly. The change may have actually recharged things; where many bands start to sound stale after several years, the new Mice album has a very fresh feel to it, and a lot of it is due to the new vocal sound. The music is similar to before; ultra tight, fast and melodic with a half Ramones, half MC5 sort of sound, but the vocals are a little lighter and more pop feeling. It works great.

Jeff explained the change to me: "I think Paul's departure can be attributed to three factors. He'd been singing with the Exploding White Mice for seven years and was sick of it (fair enough!). Second, he never really like touring, unlike the rest of us, who love it. Finally, he'd started a course in Asian studies at university, and basically he had to come to a decision - band or university? The rest is history, I guess. I should say that his departure was completely amicable, and since his last gig with us in July of 91 he still comes to see the band play. At the time of Paul's exit the band had booked studio time to record Collateral Damage (with Paul singing), so his announcement left us with a problem - should we delay recording (which had already been put off several times), record the album with Paul (he was quite willing), find a new singer and then record (this would have meant further long delays to an already much put off record), or simply record the thing with yours truly singing and worry about finding a singer afterwards. Well obviously we chose the latter option, mainly because we were desperate to record the songs we'd been practicing so much for six months. We chose not to use Paul 'cos it didn't seem like a good idea to have a new album to promote and play live with a different vocalist, plus although I'm sure he would have done a good job, the fact that he was leaving would have cast a bit of a cloud over our performance in the studio."

"After the record was finished we decided to look for a new singer and held some "auditions". In all we tried about six singers, some well known around Adelaide and some totally inexperienced. Even though they were all good, somehow it didn't feel "right" - the band has been together for so long now that I think there was a subconcious feeling that we couldn't handle a "stranger" singing songs that we'd lived with for seven years. Eventually we decided that we'd get another guitarist and that since I'd sung on the new record, I'd do the singing live as well."

The new guitarist is Andrew Bunney, who is the brother of Mice drummer David ("the Bunneys breed like rabbits", laughs Jeff...). He used to play in the Coneheads and as you might have guessed if you've heard that band shares his brother's fanaticism for the Ramones. As of this interview they'd only played five or six gigs with this line up, but things seemed to be working out fine. According to Jeff, "It IS more difficult singing and playing at the same time (hair gets in your eyes!), but it's getting easier. Although Paul wrote some good words for a few songs (like "Sleepwalk", "Fear", "Ain't It Sad", and "In Your Eyes" from the new album), he was certainly not prolific in the songwriting area so I'd have to say that his absence won't affect our output very much, although it will affect the sound and style of our songs."

Jack Jacomos left the band mainly because he had problems getting time off from work to tour, and he was reluctant to throw away a pretty well paying career on what Jeff calls a "scrungy rock and roll band". Jeff continued: "I think he was also a bit frustrated just being a guitarist, 'cos he's a bit of a show off and loves fronting a band, which may have had something to do with it. Although we recorded "Let's Do The Crunch", which is a great song, Jack was writing lots of stuff that didn't really suit us, and consequently I think he was a bit frustrated because of us not playing everything he'd write." Since leaving the Mice Jack played for a while in Adelaide thrash band Where's The Pope, but they've recently split up and Jack hasn't been active on the music front since then.

The material for the new lp was written in the first half of 1991 and recorded in August and September at Soundtrack Studios in Kent Towne, the same place where Brute Force and Ignorance was recorded. They produced themselves with Nick Burton engineering (he also did the last lp). Jeff credits the poppier sound to a greater emphasis on backing vocals and harmonies, "an area I think we've neglected to a certain extent in the past." I felt that several of the songs seemed to show a surf influence as well, to which Jeff responded; "It's fairly blatant, as it was intended to be, on "Human Garbage", but if it crops up anywhere else I guess it just happened naturally, although I'm a big Beach Boys fan so it's bound to come out in our songs sometimes. The Mice have always played a few surf songs, like "Pipeline", "California Sun", "King Of The Surf" and "Surf City", so it's nothing new for us. I think that with Paul no longer in the band we will tend to drift to a more melodic sound. We've always had two sides to the band, one being that Detroit type sound (MC5, Birdman, Stooges) and the other being a more melodic punk style (Ramones, Descendents, etc). My singing tends to suit a more "poppy" style, whereas Paul was well suited to the more full on screaming stuff. We've also been influenced by some of the great bands from the USA of the past 7 or 8 years - Descendents, Screeching Weasel, Green Day and especially Bad Religion, who are brilliant and my favorite band at the moment. In short, I think the band's current direction lies in a more harmony-reliant vocal sound over a full on guitar attack."

At this point I feel obligated to point out that anyone listening to Collateral Damage will find that Jeff's description of what seems to be a de-emphasis of guitars is completely blown away by powerful gut-busting songs that it just happens you can sing along to as well. On the other hand though, he turns around in a bit and acknowledges that, well, yeah, there IS a pretty awesome guitar sound in there: "I think Collateral Damage is easily the best album we've made (yeah, I know all bands say that, but I DO mean it!!). Seeing as it's our first full studio album since 1988 it'd be disappointing if it WASN'T better! It's definitely got a MUCH bigger guitar sound than Exploding White Mice (1990), and out of the 14 new songs there's only 2 or 3 that I'm sick to death of hearing, which is unusual 'cos I usually hate listening to our records and I've heard this one a LOT! I think it might appeal to someone who hasn't liked EWM in the past, 'cos it's got much more variety than before and I guess it does sound a bit more poppy, but die hard EWM listeners shouldn't worry - this album is still loud, fast, and suitably HUGE, noise-level wise!"

A complicating factor in the preparation of Collateral Damage was the demise of Greasy Pop, the Adelaide record company fixture run by Doug Thomas for over ten years and responsible for exposing so many great Adelaide bands that never would've had a chance otherwise. Doug just ran out of gas after years of being in debt, overworked, and underappreciated, sold the whole outfit to one of the guys in the Coneheads, and packed off to Perth where he originally came from. This left the Mice in a big hole, since Doug would usually pay for their recording and then recoup his money via royalties. Without Greasy Pop the band had to scramble for financing, borrowing money from various sources. They were unable to find other record company interest (which is mind boggling considering how much crap indie labels have been putting out in Australia lately!). Jeff says that the recession has made the record companies more conservative than ever. The result is that all the copies of Collateral Damage released in Australia will be pressed by Normal in Germany and imported in via Shock Distribution. Despite all this they can actually sell the CD for $8 less than if it was made in Australia and make just as much money for themselves. Fortunately the deal with Normal seems to be working really well and the band are getting good distribution in Europe through them.

The Mice toured Europe for the first time in the spring of 1990. They went with some trepidation, since all they knew was that their Australian pressings of the first few records had sold some copies there, and they'd got a few letters from some French fanzines, but other than that, they had no idea what to expect. But it turned out great. "We got great enthusiastic crowds everywhere except Sweden (which seems to be a bit of a graveyard for a lot of touring bands), but everywhere else...Germany, Belgium, Switzerland, Holland, Italy (totally full-on!) and Austria was fantastic. We played with some great abnds - the Lazy Cowgirls, Lemonheads, Richies (Germany's amazing Ramones-clones), Maniacs (Switzerland - brilliant, in fact the gig you mentioned with the Cowgirls and Maniacs was in a club in Berlin and yeah it was great fun! Say hi to the Cowgirls for us, they're great guys!). It's hard to pick highlights from the tour because I was just happy and thrilled to be overseas for the first time, but a recurring highlight was playing in some out-of-the-way town in the countryside and having people in the crowd SINGING ALONG to songs like "Burning Red", "Dangerous" and others!! It's fantastic when you think "They've never heard of us" or "They're gonna hate us!" and they actually know your songs enough to sing along. For me the best place to play was Italy - just total lunatics who were slamming from the very first chord - in Sicily we had to change venues 'cos the Mafia wanted to use the place we had booked into to have a birthday party! (We didn't argue.)"

"The only sour note (actually make that a sour SYMPHONY) came at the end of the tour when the touring company we went through (who shall remain nameless although I can think of a few good ones) claimed that the tour had made a huge loss and had a court bailiff impound our tickets home, and our instruments, until we came up with roughly $20,000!! What happened, which was totally through their own incompetence (which they admitted), was that the paperwork that was supposed to have been done to allow us entry into France was NOT done, with the result that we were turned back into Germany at the French border, with no gigs for about 2 weeks and nothing to do but stay in a hotel (which is why the tour lost money - for two weeks there was no incoming money but lots of outgoing). Anyhow, after much name calling and frantic phone calls to Australia, threats of serious violence, all of which proved to be fruitless, we took the bastards to court and kicked their arses soundly! The judge ordered the return of our gear and tickets, and we did the quickest bolt out of a country since Ronnie Biggs. All of this to-and-fro-ing took about a week, meaning that we were stuck in a hotel again, very homesick and all the time running up a huge legal bill, but we can't wait to get back there!!"

I wondered if there was some level of frustration with the fact that they've been playing at such a high quality level for such a long time, yet they still hadn't made much of a breakthrough. Jeff appears totally undaunted: "A lot of people seem to think that we should be a lot bigger than we are, but how "big" we get has never really been a consideration in what we do. We have NEVER sat down and planned some sort of "strategy" to get more popular, which I know we could be if we compromised ourselves, but that's not the point, is it? We're doing exactly what we want to do musically, and are very happy (amazed, actually) that we are as "successful" as we are. If anyone had said to us when the band started that in seven years time we'd have done what we have, we would've just laughed. We certainly don't take anything for granted - I mean my only ambition when I started to play was to play in a garage with a few friends, so to have actually put out the records we have and to have played in Europe is something I still sometimes can't believe. It'd be great to make enough money to go off the dole, and we still are damn poor, but we're doing what we love and I think people (even in Australia) have realized that we're committed to what we do, and it's not some bull**** act that we're going to change just because it's not popular. Getting our stuff released in the US has always been a pain for us (until now, of course!). First of all, when Big Time went under we kissed goodbye what we were told was royalties from 7 or 8 thousand copies sold of Nest Of Vipers. Then Doug tried to get Capitol to release Brute Force and they seemed a bit interested, but bailed out everntually. I think that by the time EWM came out Greasy Pop was starting to get the shakes and there was never much chance of a licensing deal for that. I really don't know why it's been such a hassle; we were told that Sympathy For The Record Industry didn't want to put out anything other than singles, then the next record I bought was the Creamers LP on Sympathy!! We're just relieved and happy that the new lp is coming out through your good self and hopefully itll be the beginning of a mutually fruitful enterprise!"

Meanwhile, Dave Bunney and Jeff are having fun on the side playing in a band called the Born Losers, which includes a bass player ("of no fixed hairstyle", says Jeff) named Greg Wood and a singer named Bad Baby Bart. Bart played in the Crazies, who had a single on Sympathy a while ago. According to Jeff he invariably finishes gigs nearly naked, soaked in beer, and "engaging in unnatural acts with the foldback wedges" (monitors for us Yanks). Bart's heroes are Iggy and GG Allin; nothing more need be said. The band is a cross between these two and the Dead Boys.

But when the album finally comes out, which it should be as you read this, the Mice will be heading off for Europe. "I'm still coming to grips with singing and playing and not being able to see properly to do either. It's a fairly horrifying thought, but the word "haircut" is one that is crossing my mind a fair bit lately. Actually it might not be such a bad idea, 'cos every posey ****er's got long hair these days. We would KILL to play San Diego or even Anchorage, Alaska and hopefully now that we are under your all-enveloping enterprenurial corporate wing..." (who, me? You must be kidding, Jeff!) "...a HUGE US tour is forthcoming!"

Well, I'm afraid the bit about the US tour may sadly be a bit of wishful thinking on Jeff's part. Last I talked to Dave, he was still hoping to figure out a way to tack a few dates around New York and LA on the tail end of their European tour, but they really don't have a way to make it happen and the US looks likely to be left sadly vermin-free again. But this doesn't have to keep you from enjoying their hugely incredible new lp, and keep looking for great things from these guys for years to come.

Postscript: No doubt there are some who read this who will discount what I've written because they know that I've released Collateral Damage on NKVD Records for the US and they think that this article is just marketing hype. My response to that is: don't be an idiot! Why on earth would I risk six grand of my own money to try to sell an lp to a US record audience that has been too cloth-eared to recognize practically anything good in the past if I didn't honestly think it was great? There are hundreds of good bands that are worthy of having someone fund their record release; I asked the Mice because I thought they were the very best band out there. The fact that Collateral Damage is on NKVD is the best proof I can give that the praise I have for the Mice is honestly felt. So don't even bother to write me about it!



Hope your enjoying the thread so far..........still plenty to do and keep an eye out for a separate thread on The Saints starting up in the next few days..........and don't forget to keep adding your posts on live performances, classic albums, quotes and anything else about some of the great punk/garage bands you've seen or heard over the years

[dreamkillers]

Now for one of the pioneers of Australian garage music.......

Radio Birdman - 1974-1978,1995-1996,1997

A very early pic of the band in action lat 1974........
http://members.ozemail.com.au/~citadel/images/tek/rbpic1.jpg

Although too young to see them in the 70's I caught them a few times during their re-unions in 95/96 and 97. The first time I saw them were supporting another band (who I can't quite remember but could have been either Scatterbrain or Dread Zeppelin) at the Old Lion and being totally blown away from the show they put on. As soon as the next payday rocked up it was down to the record store to blow my cash on some Radio Birdman Cd's.........


Radio Birdman did it first, did it harder, and broke up sooner, than any other Australian band.

They were too much too soon, and their legacy has been felt, through a slew of eighties pretenders right down to this day.

Although the best-known band of the early Australian punk scene of the late '70s was the Saints, the first band to wave the punk rock flag in the land down under was Radio Birdman. Formed by Australian émigré Deniz Tek (originally from Ann Arbor, MI) and Aussie surfer-turned-vocalist Rob Younger in 1974, Radio Birdman's approach to rock & roll was rooted in the high-energy, apocalyptic guitar rant of the Stooges and MC5, sprinkled liberally with a little East Coast underground hard rock courtesy of Blue Öyster Cult. Their first EP, Burn My Eye, released in 1976, was a great record and still remains a seminal chunk of Aussie punk. Loud and snotty, with Younger bellowing his guts out and Tek on a search and destroy mission with his guitar, this was a great debut that set the stage for the impending deluge of Aussie punk bands waiting in the wings.

After the release of their debut LP, Radios Appear (the title comes from a lyric in the Blue Öyster Cult song "Dominance and Submission"), in Australia a year later, Radio Birdman seemed poised to break Aussie punk worldwide. And although the American label Sire (then the home of the Ramones) was quick to sign them and distribute Radios Appear internationally in 1978, there was a gap of three years before they released a second album, Living Eyes. During that time, dozens of other Aussie punk bands stole their thunder, and Radio Birdman split up almost immediately after Living Eyes was released. Sire never released the record outside of Australia, and Radio Birdman, who should have been the biggest band in Aussie punk, were now highly regarded punk forefathers.

After the band split in 1978, various members were busy forming other bands: Tek formed the New Race with Younger, ex-Stooges guitarist Ron Asheton, and ex-MC5 drummer Dennis Thompson, released a handful of solo singles and EPs, and became a surgeon; Younger started his own band, the New Christs, and produced records by the second generation of Aussie punk bands influenced by Radio Birdman, most notably the Celibate Rifles; other Radio Birdman alumni ended up in assorted Aussie bands such as the Lime Spiders, Hoodoo Gurus, and Screaming Tribesmen. Now the grand old man of Aussie punk, Tek formed a part-time project with Celibate Rifles guitarist Kent Steedman that rocks with the same reckless abandon Radio Birdman did when they were changing the course of Australian rock forever. 2001 saw a renewal of interest in Radio Birdman thanks to an excellent compilation, The Essential Radio Birdman: 1974-1978.


Discography - of interest comments by Deniz Tek

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_burn.jpg
Title: Burn My Eye
Company: Trafalgar (Australia)
Catalogue No: (ME-109)
Format: 7" ep - vinyl
Released: October 1976

The band tried several studios, where they were met with a combination of derision and fear. Engineers and producers were generally not ready for them in 1976, and were unwilling to listen to the band's unconventional ideas about sound, let alone place their persons and equipment in harm's way.
They had almost despaired of finding any place to record, when they were finally cautiously welcomed by Trafalgar. This EP is the result of Radio Birdman's first sessions at what was to become their home studio.

A-side:
1. Smith and Wesson Blues (Tek)
2. Snake (Tek)
B-side:
3. I-94 (Tek/Jones)
4. Burned My Eye (Tek)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Vocals
Chris Masuak - Guitar, Vocals & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Produced by John Sayers and Charles Fisher
Engineered by John Sayers
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios, Sydney

Of Interest:
Trafalgar was a typical early seventies studio, plush, heavily carpeted, dead sounding and quiet. The band thought they could liven up the sound by hauling in large sheets of corrugated iron, of the sort that is used for roofs on country houses, which they carted away from building demolition sites in their Ford Transit van. The engineers were horrified but allowed it.
This ep also features the sound of VB cans (the old sturdy tins, not the new soft aluminium ones) being smashed against band members heads as a percussion device.


Title: New Race
Company: Trafalgar (Australia)
Catalogue No: (TRS-11)
Format: 7" single - no sleeve
Released: July 1977

The band's producer, Charles Fisher, had asked Deniz to try to write a "teen anthem". The song New Race was his rather tongue in cheek response, with it's humorous references to mutation of a generation of teens into a previously unknown species by the effort of will. The B side was the truly anthemic Stooges song TV Eye, which was done as a linchpin of the band's live set at that time.

A-side: New Race (Tek)
B-side: TV Eye (The Stooges)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Yeah Hups
Chris Masuak - Guitar & Yeah Hups
Warwick Gilbert - Bass & Yeah Hups
Ron Keeley - Drums & Yeah Hups
Produced by John Sayers & Charles Fisher
Engineered by John Sayers
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios

Of Interest:
At the time, New Race was misinterpreted by a few sorry journalists as having racist content. They apparently did not actually listen to the lyrics, or else were too dense and humourless to understand them. This contributed to a general critique of the band as being "Nazi", by these same resentful members of the fourth estate. Now, some 20 years later, the song is considered a signature tune, and receives the most cheers of any when played live.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_appea3.jpg
Title: Radios Appear
Company: Trafalgar (Australia)
Catalogue No: (TRL-1001)
Format: 12" lp - vinyl
Released: July 1977

Radios Appear is Radio Birdman's first full length album. Recorded piecemeal over 1976 and early '77, on weekends and nights when the studio had no paying customers, it was finally released on the Trafalgar label, created specifically to release Birdman records. In addition to mail order, the album was literally distributed by hand, out of the back of station wagons driven by band members and friends.
The band thus wrote the Australian handbook on DIY independent music. It was hailed as a breakthrough album in Australian music, a turning point after the scene's early and mid seventies stagnation. Radios Appear was given a 5 star review in Rolling Stone, and the album gave the band a needed boost to depart Sydney as a national touring entity, while still maintaining their renegade status.

Side 1:
1. TV Eye (The Stooges)
2. Murder City Nights (Tek)
3. Anglo Girl Desire (Tek)
4. Man With Golden Helmet (Tek/Kambly)
5. Descent into The Maelstrom (Tek)
Side 2:
6. Monday Morning Gunk (Tek)
7. Do The Pop (Tek/Sisto)
8. Love Kills (Tek)
9. Hand Of Law (Tek)
10. New Race (Tek)

Rob Younger - Lead Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Vocals
Chris Masuak - Guitar, Vocals & Piano on Maelstrom
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Pip Hoyle - Piano on Love Kills & Golden Helmet
Produced by John Sayers & Charles Fisher
Engineered by John Sayers
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios, Sydney

Of Interest:
The album's title was taken from the song Dominance and Submission by Blue Oyster Cult, one of the bands' most important early influences. Recording and mixing sessions were often tense, due to strong personality discordance between the band and the engineer/producer John Sayers. Sayers, who liked to work beneath pyramids, was either a holdover from hippie days, or a prescient before-the-wave New Ager, if there is a difference.
In any case the friction worked to good effect, the outcome being well worth the prolonged struggle.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_rblle.jpg
Title: Long Live The Evolution
Company: DoubleJay Rock 1540 (Australia)
Catalogue No: (AA9042)
Format: 12" lp - vinyl
Released: 1978

This live version of Burned My Eye was recorded at a 2JJ studio concert on 23/11/76 and later released on this compilation album. It is the only live material from that era of the band ever released.

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar
Chris Masuak - Guitar
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums

The band played a set live before an audience at the ABC's soundstage. They were recorded by engineer Keith Walker. The performance was broadcast live to air. This master was mixed by Keith Walker from the original tape.

Of Interest:
This dual guitar version of the band, which existed for about 18 months, was minus keyboard player Pip Hoyle who had left over conflicts arising from medical school committments as well as a dispute over a woman...he was replaced by Chris Masuak, a fan who had become a friend. Pip returned later, forming the six piece final version of the lineup.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_aloha.jpg
Title: Aloha Steve and Danno
Company: WEA/Trafalgar (Aust)
Catalogue No: (TRS-12)
Format: 7" single - no sleeve
Released: May 1978

This 45 was the Australian single from the overseas version of Radios Appear. It was released at home while the band was in England. The success of this release led to the song Aloha Steve and Danno being the most well recognised song in the band's catalogue. The great picture sleeve featuring a surfboard bearing the bands' logo appeared on the reissue of this 45 in the box set.

A-side: Aloha Steve and Danno (Stevens/Tek/Younger)
B-side: Anglo Girl Desire (Tek)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Backing Vocals
Chris Masuak - Guitar & Backing Vocals
Pip Hoyle - Organ & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Produced by John Sayers & Charles Fisher
Engineered by John Sayers
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios

Of Interest:
Sire Records publicist Janis Schacht contacted Jack Lord, star of Hawaii 5-0, to try to arrange a photo shoot with Deniz to promote the song. Seemed like a great idea at the time, until the reply came. It was from an attorney demanding a third of the copyright in the song on behalf of the composer of the Hawaii 5-0 theme music, Mort Stevens. Deniz being a fan of Jack Lord was most disappointed. Strangely enough, Angie, Deniz' wife, met and went dancing with Jack Lord years later in Hawaii.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_whatgi.jpg
Title: What Gives?
Company: Phonogram (UK)
Catalogue No: (Sire - 6078 617)
Format: 7" single - no sleeve
Released: 1978

This was the one and only single off the UK release of Radios Appear. It was released concurrently with the band's British tour in early '78.

A-side: What Gives? (Gilbert/Tek)
B-side: Anglo Girl Desire (Tek)

Rob Younger - Lead Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Vocals
Chris Masuak - Guitar & Vocals
Pip Hoyle - Organ & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Produced by John Sayers & Charles Fisher
Engineered by John Sayers
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios

Of Interest:
During the release of this single, the band was living a miserable existence in London, rehearsing and preparing themselves for the death march of the terminal road tour that was to come. The record should have done well, but was crippled by lack of interest from Phonogram, which was in the midst of cancelling their distribution deal with Sire. In such industry disputes the band always gets caught in the middle and loses out, this instance being no exception.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_appea2.jpg
Title: Radios Appear (Overseas)
Company: WEA/Trafalgar (Aust)
Catalogue No: (TRL-102)
Format: 12" lp - vinyl
Released: February 1978

This version of Radios Appear came about after Sire Records signed the band. The terms of the deal included the right to redo some of the original album for overseas release. The band took advantage of this to update the album, changing parts of it they didn't like. They completely re-recorded new versions of some songs, remixed others, and added some new tunes. The resulting album is over 50% different from the original Australian version, and has different cover and liner photos.

Side 1:
1. What Gives? (Gilbert/Tek)
2. Non Stop Girls (Tek)
3. Do The Pop (Tek/Sisto)
4. Man With Golden Helmet (Tek/Kambly)
5. Descent into The Maelstrom (Tek)
6. New Race (Tek)
Side 2:
7. Aloha Steve & Danno (Tek/Younger/Stevens)
8. Anglo Girl Desire (Tek)
9. Murder City Nights (Tek)
10. You're Gonna Miss Me (13th Floor Elevators)
11. Hand Of Law (Tek)
12. Hit Them Again (Tek/Asheton)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar
Chris Masuak - Guitar & Piano on Maelstrom
Pip Hoyle - Organ & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Johnny Kannis & Radio Birdman - Harmonies
Produced by John Sayers & Charles Fisher
Engineered by John Sayers
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios
Mastered at Masterdisk NYC by Joe Gastwirt

Of Interest:
The band refers to this record as "the white album". Radio Birdman had changed substantially in the previous year since the Australian version of the album came out, with Pip Hoyle, keyboardist and original member, rejoining the band full time. Deniz had been in America, hanging out with Sonics' Rendezvous Band, and came back full of inspiration and new song ideas. Not wanting to wait to record a whole new album, the band was keen on presenting it's most current direction to the outside world.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_liveye.jpg
Title: Living Eyes
Company: WEA (Australia)
Catalogue No: (600085)
Format: 12" lp - vinyl
Released: April 1981

Living Eyes is the product of three weeks at Rockfield Studios in Wales, during a break in the action of the 1978 tour of Britain and Europe. The band stoically did it's best in the studio, even though relations between members were falling apart and total disintegration was imminent. Deniz feels now that accepting the role of producer was a mistake. But again, tension probably worked to advantage, yielding hard edged and compelling, albeit bitter, performances.

Side 1:
1. More Fun (Tek)
2. TPBR Combo (Tek/Masuak)
3. 455 SD (Tek)
4. Do The Movin' Change (Tek)
5. I-94 (Tek/Jones)
6. Iskender Time (Tek)
7. Burn My Eye '78 (Tek)
Side 2:
8. Time To Fall (Tek)
9. Smith and Wesson Blues (Tek)
10. Crying Sun (Gilbert/Tek)
11. Breaks My Heart (Tek)
12. Alone In The Endzone (Tek)
13. Hanging On (Tek)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar, Harmonies
Chris Masuak - Guitar, Harmonies, Percussion
Pip Hoyle - Organ & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Produced by Deniz Tek
Engineered by John A****
Rockfield Studios, Monmouth, Wales April 1978

Of Interest:
These initial releases suffered from the fact that, with the band's breakup from Sire happening prior to this recording, the responsibility for paying the studio as well as the ownership of the master was unclear. The true master tape was never obtained by the band, these albums being cut from an inferior tape dub of trial mixes. The sound quality, while marginally acceptable, was a source of grief for the band until 1995, when the album was finally remixed and mastered properly.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_alien.jpg
Title: Alone In The Endzone
Company: WEA (Australia)
Catalogue No: (100160)
Format: 7" ep - vinyl
Released: March 1981

This was the only single from Living Eyes. It comes with an interesting picture sleeve, depicting a heavily armed and on edge Deniz in his Detroit apartment. Is it paranoia when they really ARE coming to get you?

A-side: Alone In The Endzone (Tek)
B-side: Breaks My Heart (Tek)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Harmonies
Chris Masuak - Guitar & Harmonies
Pip Hoyle - Piano & Organ
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Produced by Deniz Tek
Engineered by John A****
Recorded at Rockfield Studios, Monmouth, Wales

Of Interest:
The wonderfully distorted and original sounding solo in Endzone, often mistakenly attributed to Deniz, was in fact played by Chris Masuak. Deniz played the rhythm part.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_rbsrnr.gif
Title: Soldiers Of Rock and Roll
Company: WEA (Australia)
Catalogue No: yeahup 1
Format: 12" album - vinyl
Released: 1982

This strange album (described by the record company as "an audio documentary of Radio Birdman") was released after Deniz had quit music for flying, and was assembled by the people at Trafalgar...like a soundtrack for a documentary movie which was never made. It is truly a period piece, a narrow slice of the history of the microcosm that surrounded the band.

Side 1:
1. Ramblin' Rose: MC5 (Wilkin/Burch)
2. 1970: The Stooges (Stooges)
3. TV Eye: Radio Birdman (Stooges)
4. Walk Don't Run: The Pink Fairies (Smith)
5. Man With Golden Helmet: Radio Birdman (Tek/Kambly)
6. More Fun: Radio Birdman (Tek)
Side 2:
1. Love Kills: Radio Birdman (Tek)
2. Hand Of Law: Radio Birdman (Tek)
3. New Race: Radio Birdman (Tek)
4. Who Rings The Bell: The Angels (Brewster/Brewster/Neeson)
5. Hail Columbia: New Race (New Race)
6. Maelstrom: New Race (Tek)

Of Interest:
This album contains some rare tracks, like the New Race version of Maelstrom, and many spoken word bits and interview segments with some of the band members and other people around the scene, including Ron Asheton, Dennis Thompson, and Vivien Johnson, the band's biographer. Originally this release was packaged in a sleeve whose front cover featured a photo of a Nazi wartime rally in Nuremberg. The record company had done this without any consultation or approval from the band. It was rejected immediately by the band and the cover had to be reprinted. Not to be thwarted, the record company released the
vetoed photo on a retail poster, without telling the band.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_ashes1.gif
Title: Under The Ashes
Company: WEA/Trafalgar (Aust)
Catalogue No: (LOC-999)
Format: box set
Released: December 1988

A high quality box set of vinyl discs, constituting reissues of all previous material up to that date, and some extras. The discs were later issued individually, and the reader may refer to notes about them separately herein.

In The box:
Radios Appear
Radios Appear (Overseas Version)
Living Eyes
The First and the Last (New Race)
Burn My Eye 12" ep
More Fun! 12" ep
Aloha Steve & Danno/Anglo Girl 7" single
Patch, poster, letter from Deniz

Of Interest:
Now a rare collector's item, the box set was compiled when it was assumed by everyone involved that the band was well and truly dead and that an historical release would be appropriate. Deniz' letter, written during his military aviation phase, reads like an epitaph. They were all wrong, but at least interested listeners who like the sound of vinyl were given a unique opportunity to augment their record collections with this great package.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_morfun.jpg
Title: More Fun!
Company: WEA (Australia)
Catalogue No: (WEA 0.257825)
Format: 12" ep - vinyl
Released: April 1989

This ep was originally part of the vinyl box set, later sold separately at a discount price. It contains three live tracks, considered by the band to be some of the best until then unreleased archival live material. A fourth track is the uncharacteristic acoustically treated Stoneslike pop ballad Didn't Tell The Man, an outtake from the Rockfield sessions.

1. Dark Surprise (Tek)
2. Breaks My Heart (Tek)
3. More Fun (Tek)
4. Didn't Tell The Man (Masuak)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Harmonies
Chris Masuak - Guitar & Harmonies
Pip Hoyle - Organ & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Tracks 1,2 & 3: Recorded live at Paddington Town Hall Dec '77
Produced by Charles Fisher
Mixed by Alan Thorne at Trafalgar Studios, Sydney
Track 4: Produced by Deniz Tek
Recorded at Rockfield Studios, Wales

Of Interest:
Didn't Tell The Man went on to be a Hitmen staple, but without Rob's vocal, never sounded the same again.
The live tracks are from a legendary show just before the band departed to England, where the large town hall venue and many cars outside were partially destroyed. The remainder of the show is on tape, and while inferior bootlegs exist, there is the potential for a great live album there.

http://members.ozemail.com.au/~citadel/images/tek/rbburn.gif
Title: Burn My Eye
Company: WEA (Australia)
Catalogue No: (WEA 0.257840)
Format: 12" ep - vinyl
Released: April 1989

This is the Burn My Eye ep reissue from the Ashes box set, released here separately. It features the same cover photo, the only difference being the colouration of the lettering, and the 12" versus 7" format.

A-side:
1. Smith and Wesson Blues (Tek)
2. Snake (Tek)
B-side:
3. I-94 (Tek/Jones)
4. Burned My Eye (Tek)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Vocals
Chris Masuak - Guitar, Vocals & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Produced by John Sayers and Charles Fisher
Engineered by John Sayers
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios, Sydney

Of Interest:
See the Trafalgar Burn My Eye release page for relevant details.


http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_ashes.gif
Title: Under The Ashes
Company: WEA/Trafalgar (Aust)
Catalogue No: (WEA255991-2)
Format: double cd pack
Released: September 1992

This is the double cd set of the same material found in the vinyl box set, minus the posters and patches. This release is generally overshadowed and made irrelevant by the later Red Eye reissues of the Radio Birdman albums, which are far superior in terms of mastering quality.

Disc One:
1. TV Eye (The Stooges)
2. Monday Morning Gunk (Tek)
3. Love Kills (Tek)
4. Snake (Tek)
5. I-94 (Tek/Jones)
6. Burned My Eye (Tek)
7. What Gives? (Gilbert/Tek)
8. Non Stop Girls (Tek)
9. Do The Pop (Tek/Sisto)
10. Man With Golden Helmet (Tek/Kambly)
11. Descent into The Maelstrom (Tek)
12. New Race (Tek)
13. Aloha Steve & Danno (Tek/Younger/Stevens)
14. Anglo Girl Desire (Tek)
15. Murder City Nights (Tek)
16. You're Gonna Miss Me (13th Floor Elevators)
Disc Two:
1. Hand Of Law (Tek)
2. Hit Them Again (Tek/Asheton)
3. More Fun (Tek)
4. TPBR Combo (Tek/Masuak)
5. 455 SD (Tek)
6. Do The Movin' Change (Tek)
7. Iskender Time (Tek)
8. Time To Fall (Tek)
9. Smith and Wesson Blues (Tek)
10. Crying Sun (Gilbert/Tek)
11. Breaks My Heart (Tek)
12. Alone In The Endzone (Tek)
13. Hanging On (Tek)
14. Didn't Tell The Man (Masuak)
15. Dark Surprise (Tek)

Of Interest:
Nothing really.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_theeps.jpg
Title: The E.P.'s
Company: East West (Australia)
Catalogue No: (450990743.2)
Format: cd compile
Released: September 1992

This cd is merely a compile of the two 12" EPs, Burn My Eye and More Fun, that had been previously released by WEA.

1. Smith and Wesson Blues (Tek)
2. Snake (Tek)
3. I-94 (Tek/Jones)
4. Burned My Eye (Tek)
5. Dark Surprise (Tek)
6. Breaks My Heart (Tek)
7. More Fun (Tek)
8. Didn't Tell The Man (Masuak)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar & Vocals
Chris Masuak - Guitar, Vocals & Piano
Pip Hoyle - Organ & Piano on tracks 5,6,7 & 8
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Tracks 1,2,3,& 4:
Produced by John Sayers and Charles Fisher
Engineered by John Sayers
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios, Sydney
Tracks 5,6 & 7:
Recorded live at Paddington Town Hall Dec '77
Produced by Charles Fisher
Mixed by Alan Thorne at Trafalgar Studios, Sydney
Track 8:
Produced by Deniz Tek
Engineered by John A****
Recorded at Rockfield Studios, Wales

Of Interest:
See the individual pages for Burn My Eye and More Fun for more details.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_appea1.jpg
Title: Radios Appear
Company: Red Eye/Polygram (Aust)
Catalogue No: (redcd49)
Format: album - cd
Released: 1995

Deniz' solo deal with Red Eye ultimately led to the licensing of the Birdman catalogue to PolyGram. Radios Appear was remastered for the first time and repackaged.

1. Aloha Steve & Danno (Tek/Younger/Stevens)
2. Non Stop Girls (Tek)
3. Anglo Girl Desire (Tek)
4. What Gives? (Gilbert/Tek)
5. Murder City Nights (Tek)
6. Man With Golden Helmet (Tek/Kambly)
7. Descent into The Maelstrom (Tek)
8. Do The Pop (Tek/Sisto)
9. Hand Of Law (Tek)
10. New Race (Tek)
11. Love Kills (Tek)
12. Monday Morning Gunk (Tek)
13. Hit Them Again (Tek/Asheton)
14. TV Eye (The Stooges)
15. You're Gonna Miss Me (13th Floor Elevators)
Some cds came with a bonus Burn My Eye ep:
1. Smith and Wesson Blues (Tek)
2. Snake (Tek)
3. I-94 (Tek/Jones)
4. Burned My Eye (Tek)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar
Chris Masuak - Guitar & Piano on Maelstrom
Pip Hoyle - Organ & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Produced by John Sayers & Charles Fisher
Engineered by Charles Fisher
Recorded at Trafalgar Studios, Sydney
Remastered Jan '95 by Don Bartley & Rob Younger at Studio 301

Of Interest:
The band were very pleased with the sound of this reissue, being the first high quality mastering job for cd. The fidelity and energy is miles beyond previous versions, being cut approximately 5db louder, making it sound more like the original Australian vinyl pressing. The last 15 seconds of the bonus ep contain a radio add spoken by Deniz announcing a Birdman show at the Corrimal Town Hall.

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_living.jpg
Title: Living Eyes
Company: Red Eye/Polygram (Aust)
Catalogue No: (redcd53)
Format: album - cd
Released: 1995

This reissue is actually completely remixed from the original 24 track 2" masters, which were found in the vaults at Rockfield Studios in 1995. The seven boxes of tape, seriously deteriorated. were couriered to Sydney, where EMI engineers meticulously hand restored them. The mix is sonically superior to the original, with correction of many of the technical faults that had bothered the band about prior releases. The band considers this to be the definitive version of Living Eyes.

1. Hanging On (Tek)
2. 455 SD (Tek)
3. Do The Movin' Change (Tek)
4. TPBR Combo (Tek/Masuak)
5. I-94 (Tek/Jones)
6. Iskender Time (Tek)
7. Burn My Eye '78 (Tek)
8. Alien Skies (Hoyle)
9. Time To Fall (Tek)
10. Smith and Wesson Blues (Tek)
11. Crying Sun (Gilbert/Tek)
12. If I Wanted To (Tek/Tek)
13. Breaks My Heart (Tek)
14. More Fun (Tek)
15. Alone In The Endzone (Tek)
16. Didn't Tell The Man (Masuak)
17. Dark Surprise (Tek)

Rob Younger - Lead Vocals
Deniz Tek - Guitar, Harmonies
Chris Masuak - Guitar, Harmonies & Percussion
Pip Hoyle - Organ & Piano
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Produced by Deniz Tek
Engineered by John A****
Recorded at Rockfield Studios, Monmouth, Wales April 1978
Re-mixed by Deniz Tek, Rob Younger & Chris Masuak
Re-mix engineered by Phil Punch
At Electric Ave Studios, Sydney - Feb 1995
Mastered by Don Bartley & Rob Younger at Studio 301

Of Interest:
The mixing sessions served to bring the band members together again (minus Ron Keeley) in their earlier haunt, Trafalgar Studios (renamed Electric Ave). Their first time working on a musical project as a team in 18 years, they discussed the possibility of doing more music together. The event set the stage for the unexpected reunion tours that occurred within the following year.
The artwork was also given a reworking with a completely new front cover, Younger in a balaclava. Not everyone was happy with it, the old animosities surfacing at the slightest provocation.


continued.......

[dreamkillers]

continued......

http://www.divinerites.com/images/p_ritua1.jpg
Title: Ritualism
Company: Crying Sun/Citadel (Australia)
Catalogue No: (csr001)
Format: album - compact disc
Released: 1997

The band's first offering on it's own label, this low budget but high quality live album was recorded in one afternoon during their reunification tour of 1996. They were invited to play to a small audience of contest winners at a studio in Melbourne, for the independent station 3RRR, which was given the broadcast rights to the performance. The band got triple-R t-shirts and a tape. The album was initially released mail order only, a limited number coming in a beautiful oversized booklet format.

1. Burned My Eye (Tek)
2. Smith And Wesson Blues (Tek)
3. Anglo Girl Desire (Tek)
4. Hanging On (Tek)
5. TV Eye (the Stooges)
6. Revelation (Tek)/Younger)
7. Aloha Steve & Danno (Tek/Younger/Stevens)
8. Alone In The Endzone (Tek)
9. 455 SD (Tek)
10. Walk The Earth (Masuak/Tek)
11. What Gives? (Gilbert/Tek)
12. New Race (Tek)

Rob Younger - Vocals
Chris Klondike Masuak - Guitar
Deniz Tek - Guitar
Pip Hoyle - Klavier
Warwick Gilbert - Bass
Ron Keeley - Drums
Recorded by Dave Warner and Engineered By Tim Johnston
At Seed Studios, Melbourne
Mixed by Chris Masuak and Rob Younger
At Electric Avenue Sydney
Mix Engineered by Wayne Connolly
Mastered by Don Bartley at Studios 301

Of Interest:
The album is completely live, with no overdubs. There are two new Radio Birdman songs, previously unrecorded. It also contains an interesting and compelling version of TV Eye, with free jamming and unplanned segue into a few bars of Looking At You during the track...a song last played by Radio Birdman 20 years previously. The band was happy to have again offered a quality record directly to the people, minus industry involvement, at a fair price.


There are also plenty of Radio Birdman bootlegs floating around the place including......
Eureka Birdman - LP (1977) - Live at The Eureka Hotel, Geelong, 30 November 1977.
Rock 'n' Roll War 1976-1978 - LP
Rock & Roll War 1976-1978 - LP (1998)
Surfin' at 2JJJ - Live E.P - 2JJJ Studios, Sydney 11/23/76 - Limited Edition of 500
Death By The Gun E.P.(1978) - Limited Edition 1000
Ring Of Truth E.P. (1988) - Limited Edition 1000
Murder City Nights - CD - Recorded live in Sydney, Australia 1976.
Live in Sydney, 1976 - Double Jay Studio - CD (1990) - Limited Edition 1000
Ready To Burn - CD (1996)
Radios On ! Ritualism - The Reunion 1996 - LP (1997) - Limited Edition of 500


Now for a couple of stories and interviews with the band over the years again from
Noise For Heroes and NKVD Records (http://www.nkvdrecords.com)

Parts of this article appeared in Noise For Heroes #19 in the summer of 1990. The original piece borrowed verbatim an older article written by Adelaide’s Harry Butler which appeared in his DNA fanzine #49 in April of 1986, with an introduction added by myself . This issue of DNA is critical for anyone really interested in the origins of the Aussie underground scene, with great articles about all of the early Sydney bands with Birdman roots. I’ve subsequently re-written the bulk of the article, but it still draws heavily from Butler’s article with the addition of information from a number of other sources. The definitive Radio Birdman history...certainly in terms of quantity and possibly also in quality...can be found in Vivien Johnson’s 1990 book on the band, entitled Radio Birdman. There is only room for the essentials here.


"Any rude variants on this group's name (good contest idea?) wouldn't be unjust. Radio Birdman should be stripped of all their Stooges and MC5 records and forced to play disco in a singles bar."

This is the sum total of all the words ever written about Radio Birdman in Trouser Press, my favorite US fanzine of the 70s. Not very encouraging, is it? Certainly not what you would expect to have been written given the near godhead attributed to this band today. What's more, there's precious little else that was said outside of Australia about Radio Birdman while they were still flying. Looking through my piles of old fanzines, mostly Zig Zags and New York Rockers, the only other words I can find are in one Sire advertisement with the Radios Appear lp along with records by the Saints, Talking Heads and Dead Boys. That's it. Christ himself was better recognized in his day. Even in the mid 80s the best Ira Robbins in his Trouser's Press Record Guide could manage was a grudging concession that Radio Birdman had made "a small contribution".

But maybe the values of the times have to be taken into account to understand what happened a little better...Yes had gone from songs covering one whole side of an lp to songs covering three sides of a triple lp set; Emerson Lake and Palmer did a triple lp live set with songs that were basically classical music which they then gave themselves credit for writing. Radio was dominated by disco music or soft rock. So punk rock was the savior as far as the critics were concerned, although it was pretty fuzzy in many quarters just exactly what punk rock WAS. At various times, I recall reading that Springsteen, the Bay City Rollers, Nils Lofgren and the Rolling Stones were punks, and it was unanimous that Blondie, the Talking Heads and Devo were, too. Amidst all this confusion it's hard to understand how Radio Birdman could have been thought to NOT be punk, but all I can think of is that the jazz flavored bits that showed up on Radios Appear struck people as a taste of progressive rock. Maybe the long hair? But the Ramones had long hair, too. Suffice to say that although Sire was my favorite label in those days (Ramones, Richard Hell, Dead Boys, Talking Heads, Rezillos, Saints, Plastic Bertrand, Undertones on one label! Holy cow!), the Trouser Press review made me wait to find Radios Appear in a used bin, which took over a year...I guess the people who went out and bought it when it first came out recognized a treasure better than the critics. And I have to admit that when I got it, I thought of it as a good lp, but not a great one...sort of like Eddie and the Hot Rods’ Life On The Line or in that class.

So why has Radio Birdman turned out to be such an important band? A whole legion of Australian bands look at Radio Birdman as the band that taught them that they could make lasting music themselves...they look to Radio Birdman far more than to the Saints, whose lps were just as pioneering and exciting. And in Europe legions of bands also look up to Radio Birdman and singer Rob Younger's subsequent band, the New Christs. In fact, it seems obvious that in rock and roll circles, at this moment this once ignored band from down under is as important or maybe even more important than the Sex Pistols, Damned, Clash or Jam from the 70's punk explosion...only the Ramones are clearly more revered today. The reason that this has come to be is not totally clear; I suspect it has to do with a number of factors. First of all, the 70's punk philosophy of anger, speed and simplicity has passed through hardcore to thrash to its logical conclusion of bands that create a furious din that consists of little music or room for creativity and while some in the crowd may still get a rush from it, for the musicians it's ultimately unsatisfying.

One of the constant themes of the 70s punk movement was that music had been taken out of the hands of the kids who were listening to it and was played by old farts with years of music school playing pseudo-classical music at a level of ability that a novice couldn't hope to match. Lyric topics were equally divorced from everyday reality. The industry end was controlled by rich insiders (nothing new there), but unlike today, there was no independent alternative at all. So a major punk credo was that anybody could be in a band and make good rock music for his mates.

But this idea got taken to extremes; the idea that anybody can be in a band is a good one. The idea that if his playing improves his music becomes less valid is a bad one, but often that concept dominated. The attitude should have been that any level of playing ability is valid as long as the end result is exciting and fresh and not pretentious; granted a hard mix to combine, yet there are bands doing it all over today. But most people who would make any worthwhile music to begin with would improve just by virtue of playing more and more, and besides that, one would hardly be human to not want to get better at something that he or she is fond of doing. Yet the common wisdom of the early 80s didn't allow for this; the result was that by the time many bands got to their third or fourth record they were in a trap where they could either go mainstream or make an lp that didn't make use of their expanding talents but placated their existing following. There wasn't any middle ground; you couldn't make a non-mainstream record that really showed some playing ability.

This was exactly the kind of record Radios Appear was...an lp by a band that played a whole lot better than most of their peers but was way too hard and heavy to have a prayer in the mainstream. Radio Birdman were naive...they didn't know what the rules were at the time, and if they had known they probably wouldn't have cared, so they fell in the cracks.

But by the mid 80s (earlier in Australia where preconceptions seem to have been less widely held) a lot of hardcore bands were starting to break the rules. Husker Du are probably the best example of a band that risked their entire "underground credibility" to break out of the straightjacket thinking of hardcore. But I think many of the others that have done so, and who have used Radio Birdman as a jump off point, have done so because they recognize that here was a band that was able to combine energy with ability to make some really exciting music.

Radio Birdman were a lot more than just a Detroit metal band, though that's the way everybody tends to think of them. But there were also strong influences from jazz and surf music. Deniz Tek, the lead guitar player, claimed that the Rolling Stones were more influential for him personally than anyone else, and he was also a big fan of sixties soul like James Brown, Sam and Dave, and Otis Redding.

Radio Birdman’s story has to be one of the more fascinating ones in rock’n’roll history. An American and a Canadian joining up with four Australians in Sydney to play music influenced by the Stooges and MC5 in 1974, two of them medical students who would subsequently become practicing physicians, one who would come to lead a great band of his own and become the premier producer of independent music in Australia in the 1980s, another an accomplished graphics designer, and who as a group would release the single most influential album in Australian music history and one of the most important albums of the 1970s worldwide...it certainly goes a long way beyond the normal path bands take. To record the entire history in the detail it deserves would take a book, and in fact a very good one exists in Vivien Johnson’s Radio Birdman. Here it is possible only to summarize the key events in the life of the band.

Like most bands that achieve a legendary status, Radio Birdman did not arise from nothing. The key members of the band had previously played in other groups which few people ever saw and of which nothing would be known if not for the fame that Radio Birdman came to achieve. While each member of Radio Birdman made substantial contributions, singer Rob Younger and guitarist Deniz Tek are generally regarded as the most vital components of the group. They started Radio Birdman in late 1974 shortly after Rob had moved into a house where Deniz was already living. Deniz was originally from Ann Arbor Michigan in the United States, but he had arrived in Sydney in 1972 to attend medical school after studying chemistry as an undergraduate in the US. He brought with him a passion for two classic Michigan bands; the Stooges and the MC5.

When he arrived in Australia, Tek had been playing guitar for a while, though never in a band. Once in Sydney he soon joined his first group, the Screaming White Hot Razor Blades, playing covers of bands like the Rolling Stones and Bonzo Dog Band. This band didn’t last long, but members from it formed a new band called the Cunning Stunts, which quickly mutated in TV Jones, which played covers of the Stooges, MC5, Alice Cooper, Rolling Stones and J. Geils Band along with some of their own originals (including the Birdman song "Snake"). Future Radio Birdman and med-school fellow student Pip Hoyle sometimes guested on keyboard for TV Jones. But in 1974 TV Jones split with Tek being asked to leave over some personal issues with the other band members.

Meanwhile, Rob Younger was fronting another Sydney band called the Rats, which also included future Birman bassist Warwick Gilbert (he played guitar for the Rats) and drummer Ron Keeley. They played nothing but covers; Stooges, MC5, Velvet Underground and New York Dolls…probably the only other band in Australia playing a repertoire that would allow them to fit with a group like TV Jones. Jules Normington, who later would become Radio Birdman’s manager and the owner of influential Sydney record shop and label Phantom Records, served as the Rats roadie.

The first lineup of Radio Birdman was basically ex-Rats Younger (vocals), Keeley (drums) and Carl Rourke (bass) with ex-TV Jones Tek (guitar) and Hoyle (keyboards). Their name came from what was almost certainly a misinterpretation of the line "radio burnin’ up above" from the Stooges song "1970". By April 1975 Carl had been sacked for dressing like a hippie rock star and trying to grab the vocal duties from Rob while on stage. Normington had been keeping in touch with Warwick Gilbert and brought him along to a gig that had been booked while Rourke was still in the band. Ex TV Jones guitar player Chris Jones played bass to fill in, and after the gig Warwick asked if he could join up as full time bassist, and after a couple rehearsals it was agreed to take him. Gilbert was studying graphic design, and his posters and other promotional artwork turned out to be very significant in creating a strong image for the band later on.

Later in 1975 Pip Hoyle lost interest in playing and was replaced by Chris Masuak on guitar. Masuak was a Canadian living in Sydney and had been playing in a group called the Jackals, who had played on a couple of bills with Radio Birdman. By now the band was turning into a very focused and intense group; too much so for many of the local pubs who were looking for bands to come in and provide backing music for drinking beer. But the Radio Birdman’s intensity also brought them a small but dedicated cadre of hardcore fans; fans whose commitment to the band was far greater than anything that could be commanded by bands with broader yet thinner support bases. Among their followers were a small group of writers for Rock Australia Magazine (more commonly called RAM), a now-defunct weekly magazine that covered what ever was happening in the local rock scene for many years. In December 1975, the magazine ran a contest that was co-sponsored by Levi’s (the clothes company) called the RAM/Levi’s Punk Band Thriller. Since this was in the days before the term "punk" was in common usage to describe bands like the Ramones or Sex Pistols, it’s not totally clear what the magazine had in mind for the competition, but at any rate, with their inside support and powerful performances, Radio Birdman captured the contest and the associated noteriety.

The gig situation was getting tough, though. The band had a regular gig at the Oxford Tavern in the Darlinghurst area of Sydney, but other than this hall, they had slim pickings as most venues wouldn’t book them at all and in many others they ran into fights with bouncers and members of the audience who couldn’t relate to their powerhouse confrontational approach. In addition, Tek’s commitments to school made scheduling a nightmare with those venues that were willing to book the band.

In the middle of 1976 Radio Birdman recorded their legendary "Burn My Eye" ep, a four song 7" single that included "Burned My Eye", "Snake", "I-94" and "Smith and Wesson Blues". This ep was sold for $1.50, and only by mail in an ad that ran for just one issue in RAM. This was enough to sell the first pressing of 1,000 out completely, and a quick second thousand was made and also sold out. No more have been pressed, although the record has since been bootlegged and finally officially re-released in a different format with the Under The Ashes boxed set and the 1996 re-mixes of the Radios Appear material on CD. By today’s standard, and even by the standard of later Radio Birdman, these four songs are not that strong, and they were greatly improved when re-recorded later on. But at the time the "Burn My Eye" ep was a landmark in intense rock and roll, and it’s a significant relic for collectors today, with prices well over $100.

Meanwhile, the band was honing their live presentation. Warwick Gilbert’s graphic skills were put to good use in providing a cohesive theme to all their promotional material. Gilbert designed the well known Radio Birdman graphic logo, something that’s commonplace today but was very unusual at the time. The band played in matched clothes that were often described as a uniform, and included a shoulder band with the logo. They organized themselves and their closest followers with titles that made them sound like a military organization. Their were two results of this...their fans were bound even closer in identifying with the band, while their detractors accused them of fascism...a ridiculous charge since Radio Birdman never showed any political leanings in any of their material, although the theory was given a boost by the song "New Race". Although anyone willing to listen to more than a couple lines of the lyrics would realize that the band was talking about a new approach to rock and roll, members of the press found it much easier to just watch the war rally sort of frenzy that erupted whenever the band played "New Race" and assume that there were much darker forces at work.

Two close friends of Deniz Tek’s played prominent roles in helping to create the frenzy of their shows; Mark Sisto and Johnny Kannis. The two had come to the band’s attention first as crazed fans. Sisto showed up at one show dancing like a lunatic, and at one point he stuffed his head inside the PA speaker for a good part of the set. It turned out that he came from Michigan and so he and Deniz had a lot in common. The two became close friends, and Sisto would do his dance routine at the side of the stage during Birdman shows from then on. He even managed the band for a short stretch in late 1976.

Johnny Kannis was a friend of Chris Masuak’s from his school days, and he eventually took the title of "Master Of Ceremonies", introducing the band and working the crowd to a fever pitch prior to their shows. Kannis would lead chants of "Yeah, hup, Yeah, hup!" at the start of "New Race", and the crowds would stab their fists into the air and chant along at the beginning of the song and throughout the rave-up ending. The effect was by all accounts like a preparation for war.

In the end of 1976 the band played a series of shows in Sydney that brought rave reviews all around. Elsewhere, in the US the Ramones had released their second lp, Leave Home, and the CBGBs groups were starting to get noticed. In the UK, the first Damned album was out, the Sex Pistols "Anarchy In The UK" had been released. In Australia, the Saints had released their firebrand single "I’m Stranded". A generation of faded but wealthy and contented rock stars were wearing out, and it was looking like 1977 was going to bring a new race of hungry and energetic groups all around the world, with Radio Birdman poised to lead the Australian efforts. But first, there was a pause to consolidate as Deniz Tek returned to the US for a three month holiday.


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When Tek returned, the band found that the Oxford Tavern was about ready to close its doors. This would have been a disaster for Radio Birdman, since this was the place where they played most of their gigs and got their strongest crowds. So the band negotiated with the owners and arranged a deal in which they managed the club themselves. They renamed it The Oxford Funhouse, and began booking bands in which they saw a spark of spiritual kinship. At the start it was Radio Birdman, the Hellcats (including Ron Peno, who would later lead Died Pretty and Eddie Fischer, who later was the drummer for X), and the Psychosurgeons. They ran an ad looking for more bands, which said in part:

BANDS WANTED FOR GIGS AT THE OXFORD FUNHOUSE!

The Funhouse is Sydney’s only genuine rock’n’roll venue. We are having trouble finding good bands to book. To us, a good band is energetic, exciting, innovative (or unashamedly derivative) playing rock’n’roll with real manic fervour.

WHAT IS NOT WANTED

Bands who play **** like Quo, Purple, Queen, Zeppelin, ZZ Top, Bad Co., Ted Nugent (post ’72), Bowie. In short, any of the crap anyone can hear anywhere in this boring burg.

Dumb clothing - stage gear consisting of fashion jueans and overalls, platforms, hippie gear (beads, baggy overalls, shoulder bags, etc.)

The Equipment Obsession Syndrome - the popular notion that a new expensive brand amp and guitar and monster PA will automatically make the group ‘insane’, ‘incredible’, ‘good’, ‘rock’n’roll’. Equipment freaks rarely cut it when it comes to actually playing rock’n’roll.

We’ve made a few mistakes through booking groups who said they played certain good material and, when hired, played these songs in a thoroughly gutless fashion. Bands who play original material only (or mostly) would be asked to bring tapes or lay down so crazed a testimony of their fervent commitment that they would persuade the management to forget about the tapes.

The DIY approach was a new thing anywhere in the world and especially in Australia. Radio Birdman opened the door for a whole new scene by showing bands that they could take control of things and arrange gigs and records on their own terms. In short order new indie labels like Doublethink or M-Squared would emerge, and more new bands with a host of different styles like the Lipstick Killers, X, Thought Criminals, Razar and Rocks would arise from nothing. Merged with members of key Brisbane bands like the Saints, the Fun Things, the 31st, and the End, the Oxford Funhouse scene would lay the foundations for an incredibly durable field of Aussie independent music that despite a few ebbs and flows has continued to this day.

On the return of Deniz Tek from the US, Radio Birdman played a short tour to Melbourne, Canberra and the southern parts of New South Wales with the Hellcats. The buzz on them by now was great enough so that these gigs were packed out, and the time seemed ripe for an album. In July of 1977, Radios Appear was released by Trafalgar Records, an offshoot of the studio of the same name. The title of the lp comes from "Dominance and Submission", the Blue Oyster Cult song. Similar to the first Clash album, Radios Appear eventually saw two releases; the "Australian version", which was the original, and the "overseas version", which has a different cover, several different songs, and stronger mixes or complete re-makes of the songs that remained from the Australian version. The Australian version is particularly notable for a rampaging cover of the Stooges "TV Eye", played much faster than the original and adding a lot more intensity to a song that was already pretty intense.

The album had been recorded in four different sessions during the past year, a fact that contributes to the unevenness of the Australian version. The most recent sessions produced the strongest takes; a healthy sign. This trend would continue in the sessions for the overseas version of the album, where everything is way tighter, harder, and more powerful.

After the first 3,000 copies, Warner Brothers became convinced that there might be some money in this loud and little known band, so they signed up for a distribution deal and pressed 3,000 of their own. On the strength of their promotional nudge, Radios Appear nicked the bottom end of the Aussie Top 40 album charts before disappearing. Its real impact on the music world would surpass every record above it, but it would take many years for this to become apparent.

To complement the album release, the songs "New Race" and "TV Eye" were paired as a single. This record also was a commercial failure, but it was the logical choice as it paired their anthem with the song that demonstrated their roots most prominently.

The rest of 1977 was spent consolidating their position in Australia. The band made appearances on TV, featured, along with the Saints, on the ABC show "The Real Thing". They toured as far as Adelaide (with the appealing tour name "Aural Rape") in September, and then again in November did another tour through Adelaide and Melbourne and then back to Sydney. An Adelaide show was taped for a TV show called "Rockturnal", and in Geelong south of Melbourne a show at the Eureka Hotel on November 30th was taped and issued as a bootleg lp originally under the title of Eureka Birdman in 1979 and then again later as Where The Action Is. Towards the end of the year, Sire Records approached the band with an offer to release Radios Appear in the US and UK. Sire had taken a strong lead in pushing punk and new wave bands, with the Ramones, Saints, Dead Boys, and many other bands on their label. The resulting updated Radios Appear was released in Australia as well. The band played one more round of gigs in Sydney in December, and then set their sights on England. Punk rock was attaining widespread popularity there, and it seemed like the place was ripe for Radio Birdman.

In February of 1978, Radio Birdman touched down in London and began their "Anglo Strike" tour in the London area. To their complete surprise, there was virtually no connection between them and the English crowds. In retrospect it’s less surprising; while Radio Birdman play with the energy and intensity of the best punk rock bands, their music has a higher level of sophistication as well, and the lyric content is more abstract, whereas the British bands tended to play much simpler, stripped down 3 chord rock’n’roll with lyrics that either made explicit statements or else were complete goofy. The Birdman mix of poetic lyrics with Detroit metal musical influence didn’t go over well, despite the fact that both they and the Sex Pistols could draw from Stooges roots.

After their initial round of shows, the band went to Rockfield Studios in Wales to record for what was to be their second album. The sessions included 15 new songs and remakes of three quarters of the material on the "Burn My Eye" ep. While the sessions were an artistic success, in every other way the result was a disaster. As it turns out, despite the fact that they had originally set up the recording sessions with Rockfield, Sire decided to drop Radio Birdman before they entered the studio but failed to tell the band that there would be no money forthcoming to pay the recording bill. This resulted in the studio confiscating the original master tapes of the session. As most fans of the band are well aware, it turned out that Deniz Tek made a copy of the final mix on a quarter inch reel the last night of the sessions and snuck it out with him; this tape eventually formed the basis of the 13 songs on Living Eyes.

But there was a bigger disaster than just the loss of the master tapes. During mixing, the band maintained a schedule where each member could see when each song was to be mixed. Warwick Gilbert had written his best song, "Crying Sun", for these sessions, and had strong views about how keyboards and guitar should be balanced in the mix. But through some misunderstanding, he wasn’t present when the song was mixed, and when he heard the mix, according to Vivien Johnson’s account, he was fairly crushed by the result. There was no opportunity to remix it, either, as the studio time had run out. Warwick virtually stopped talking for the rest of the tour.

From here on, things descended quickly into darkness. The band was scheduled to tour England as support for the Flaming Groovies, supporting the newly released Radios Appear. But having dropped the band, Sire withdrew promotional support for the record. What was originally billed as the "Groovin’ on the Road" tour became something different, with "Van Of Hate" crudely handwritten across the side of the tour van. Audiences couldn’t have cared less. On June 10, 1978, the band played a show at Oxford, and when it was over, the band split up. The various members returned to Australia separately; the legendary Radio Birdman spirit was dead.

Radio Birdman’s contract with Sire gave them their own rights in Australia, and for the next several years, Deniz Tek tried repeatedly to get the original master tapes to use for an Australian release. His requests got him nowhere, so eventually he decided to get a record made from the second generation copy tape he had. The resulting Living Eyes was finally released on Warner Brothers records in April, 1981, almost 3 years after the band had split up.

For nearly 20 years, various members of Radio Birdman have been active in independent music in various forms, but other than the odd re-issue (such as the Under The Ashes boxed set release of 1988), there was little activity until 1996, when two incredible events occurred. The first was that Tek and Younger went into the studio and remixed both Radios Appear and Living Eyes for re-issue on CD. The original master tapes from Rockfield had been found and after some repairwork were put back into service. In the two decades since the band had last been active, Younger had become the best producer in Australia with a knack for creating crackling hot records, and he put all of his skills to use in remixing the two CDs. The final results are essential; it is rare to hear records benefit so much from remixing as these two have; everything is so much more clear and punchy.

The second amazing event is that after the remixes were done, Radio Birdman reformed with their original lineup and did a brief tour of Australia, playing with a power that surpassed the original band. Tek and Hoyle are both practicing physicians now, and taking the time to tour is a big problem, but for a month’s vacation it proved possible to co-ordinate everything. Old differences have smoothed over with time, and the band members maybe have an appreciation for what a special place they hold in music. Certainly their audiences did...every gig was attended by vast numbers of musicians from bands that Radio Birdman had influenced, and by all accounts they went down a storm. A second tour is due for early 1997, and a live CD from the first reunion tour is on the way as of this writing.


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This article was written for The Big Takeover. Due to its length, it will run in two parts, with the first appearing in issue #49 in December of 2001. The second part will appear in June 2001 and will be posted on the web then.

With the benefit of almost a quarter century of perspective, it’s apparent that, with the possible exception of the Easybeats, Radio Birdman are the most important band in the history of Australian rock and roll. Even die hard Saints fans can’t argue this – as great as the Saints were, they split for the UK almost before anyone in Australia noticed them, and they didn’t come back for many years afterwards. And when they did, it wasn’t the same band.

While Radio Birdman eventually also took their chances in Blighty and also foundered on those shores, they waited until they’d caused a lasting impact in their own country – an impact that remains to this day. The Saints and Radio Birdman each released their debut singles within weeks of each other in 1976 – the first independently released singles in Australia and the start of the independent record industry there. But Radio Birdman did more – they created a scene where there none had existed, taking responsibility for booking the Oxford Funhouse in Sydney and ensuring both a place to play and a place to hang out for musical misfits who shared their opinion that music should be a wild, emotional and primal experience. Though the names of the bands who played the Funhouse may be unknown today, a lot of the players are not…turning up in later bands that achieved international status like the Hoodoo Gurus or Died Pretty.

There can be no doubt that it was Radio Birdman who infected the entire country with a love of Detroit-styled rock’n’roll owing a debt to the Stooges and MC5, a passion that exists to this day. For most of the 80s inner city Sydney almost nightly boasted gigs featuring bands who were directly influenced by Radio Birdman, and Radio Birdman shirts were probably more prevalent than those of any other band. Even now, bands like Brother Brick, Asteroid B-612 or Challenger 7 owe a strong and acknowledged debt to Radio Birdman.

Although they are consistently lumped in with the MC5 and Stooges, there was much more to Radio Birdman than that. Deniz Tek’s guitar licks often sound more like something from Blue Oyster Cult than the Stooges, with an almost jazz-influenced feel to them. There’s more than a little surf element to songs like "Descent Into The Maelstrom", "Aloha Steve and Danno" or "Cryin’ Sun". Rob Younger’s vocals recall Jim Morrison of the Doors more than Iggy Pop, and Pip Hoyle’s keyboards reinforce that feeling. And the songs show a strong sense of pop hooks, as on "More Fun", "Non Stop Girls" or "Do The Pop". It’s the fact that so many different influences are combined that made their sound so enduring…it doesn’t feel locked to any one era or style.

The story of Radio Birdman has to be one of the most fascinating in rock and roll. A full treatment of the band’s history requires an entire book, and fortunately, there is an excellent volume available in Vivien Johnson’s Radio Birdman (Sheldon Booth Publishing, 1990). The interview here provides only a glimpse of some key episodes, but suffice to say, the band was led by Tek and Younger, the former an American guitar ace from Michigan, who was in Australia studying medicine, and the latter their passionate Australian vocalist. Radio Birdman included 3 more Australians in bassist and graphic design wizard Warwick Gilbert, drummer Ron Keely, and another med student in Pip Hoyle on keyboards. Rounding out the lineup was Canadian Chris Masuak, who joined on guitar when Hoyle left the band for a brief period and stayed when Hoyle subsequently returned.

In the interview below, Tek and Younger talk in detail about their earlier bands and the formation of Radio Birdman. Like most bands, Radio Birdman were not immediately appreciated and spent plenty of nights playing to nobody. It was only in their last few months in Australia that they began to achieve wider recognition and play to large crowds. Like the Sex Pistols in the UK, or the Velvet Underground ten years earlier, their real impact was in the number of bands they inspired. The people who heard Radio Birdman seemed to undergo a conversion and develop the conviction that they, too, could and should start a band and play with fire and passion.

Signed to Sire Records in 1978, Radio Birdman released their first lp Radios Appear in the US and UK (with substantial modifications in content and packaging from the original Australian release) and left Australia for a UK tour. They returned in the fragments of wreckage. The tour was an artistic success but a logistical disaster, with their tour sponsor Polygram breaking from Sire before they started, a negative and ideologically straitjacketed UK rock press hounding them, the headlining Flamin’ Groovies dropping out of the tour due to Cyril Jordan slicing his hand open, and finally Sire dropping their contract while they were in the middle of recording their second album at Rockfield Studios. With internal pressures building, the band exploded. That second lp, Living Eyes, finally saw Australian release two years later. It has never been released anywhere else.

Time passes and clauses on contracts turn over, and this summer the fates have finally allowed the first American Radio Birdman release of any kind since Radios Appear in 1978. SubPop has put out a terrific package called The Essential Radio Birdman, combining most of the Radio Birdman originals from the two lps. Along with the fabulous music and piles of pictures it’s got great and accurate liner notes from David Fricke.

This article is the first of two parts, and it focuses on the days before Radio Birdman when Younger fronted the Rats and Tek led TV Jones, and proceeds through the band’s earliest exploits. Part two will appear next issue and will cover the second half of the band’s lifetime. Chris Jacobs from Sub Pop deserves a hearty thanks! for all his help in arranging for a conference call service that made it possible to simultaneously interview Younger in Australia and Tek in Montana. The interplay between these two makes it clear that the bonds of friendship are still strong after all these years, and it made my job as interviewer much easier…ask a question and then sit back as the two of them traded memories back and forth. Thanks also to Tek and Younger for their time and for patiently re-telling a lot of stories they’ve been asked to tell a hundred times already…especially since the latter was feeling the effects of a nasty flu but stayed on the phone for an hour and a half.

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Steve: I wanted to start by asking some questions about the Essential Radio Birdman compilation on SubPop and how it came into being.

Deniz: What I know about it is that the copyright to the Radio Birdman back catalog came back into the hands of Trafalgar at the turn of the century and at that point Michael McMartin and myself started looking for other outlets for the material, because frankly Polygram never did that great of a job with it. They put it out in Australia, but it was never available elsewhere except as very high priced imports, and I could tell from talking to people when I go on tour with my band that there was a lot of people who wanted that material. So we put the word out that we were looking for an outlet, and SubPop called in response.

They were one of the labels out of I think about five or six that contacted us, but they were the one that had the most credible offer and we decided that we’d work with them. So that’s how it came about.

Rob: They’ve done a nice job actually.

Deniz: Yeah, they’ve done a great job. We never really knew what it would be like, but it seems like they’ve done a lot of work.

The guy at SubPop who is handling our project is named Andy Kotowicz and he’s really gone out of his way to make a good effort.

Steve: Did you have a lot to do with the artwork and how it was packaged and what songs got chosen?

Deniz: Andy at SubPop did the first draft of song selection and I edited that heavily, and then I sent my ideas about it over to Rob and got his input on it. We pretty much agreed on it. There were a couple things we changed from that. We went back to Andy and went back and forth a few times until we got a compromise song list that everybody could live with.

Steve: How did you get David Fricke to write the liner notes? I thought he did a really nice job.

Deniz: SubPop must have written him a big check!

Steve: (laughs) Oh, really?!

Deniz: I have no idea, but he’s a pretty busy guy, and it’s amazing that he wrote such extensive and complimentary liner notes. I never expected anything like that.

Steve: Are you getting any feedback on the CD being out now, or is it too early to tell?

Rob: Well Deniz has been sending me e-mails from various sources, like American newspapers and magazines, and the response has been incredible, really. There’s nine and ten out of ten ratings for the record. They’re really waxing ecstatic with the damn thing. It’s quite surprising actually. Whatever happened to the "hated band", you know? It’s incredible press, and apparently it’s selling because of that.

Steve: I think it’s a sign of how far ahead of it’s time a lot of that material was. I remember I used to read Trouser Press all the time in the late 70s and I still have the one where they reviewed Radios Appear. They dismissed it very quickly, despite the fact that they tended to hit the mark much more often than not in their reviews. It just seems like Radios Appear just didn’t fit into what people were looking for in those days, outside of Australia. The songs were too lush, and there was too much going on, and people were looking for really stripped down stuff by people who were barely learning to play.

Deniz: Well, you have to give them credit for naming the magazine after a Bonzo Dog Band song.

Rob: That’s a good point! But if they think our stuff was over-embellished, I’d like to hear the stripped-down stuff you’re talking about.

Steve: I’m talking about the Ramones and the Sex Pistols…those bands were definitely more basic than Radio Birdman.

Rob: Well, yeah, we had one more guitar!

Steve: And keyboards…

Rob: Ah, yeah! ****!

Steve: And I think your songs were a lot more sophisticated, too. Songs like "Descent Into The Maelstrom" – I can’t imagine the Pistols or Ramones doing a song anywhere near like that.

Deniz: Yeah, I dunno. Maybe they had a different style, but there’s something outstanding about the songs on that first Ramones album, too. What they achieved to me was really revolutionary. We were sort of in between periods with our band because we pre-dated that stuff by a little bit. We didn’t see ourselves as part of the punk genre, because when we started up, the word punk was used to refer to bands that were mid-60s garage bands mostly. It was a different sound.

Steve: I wasn’t trying to imply that the Ramones weren’t good. I love the Ramones, and most of those late 70s punk bands, too. It’s just that it was kind of a straitjacket in terms of what people would accept if they were into those kinds of punk bands, and I think that hurt Radio Birdman.

Deniz: Well, yeah, because once people lock into a genre or recognize a genre as being what they are into, they can put the blinders on a bit, and we didn’t really fit into a genre. We took elements from all over the place. We had a pretty heavy Blue Oyster Cult influence as well as a British Invasion band influence. I even copped riffs from James Brown’s Live At The Apollo for one of our songs…

Rob: Did you?

Deniz: Well, yeah. That riff in "The Hand Of Law".

Rob: Oh, right!

Deniz: If you think of the intro kind of fanfare thing on Live At The Apollo ’63.

Rob: That’s great, I’d never connected that.

Deniz: I’m not sure I was aware of that at the time, but I can hear it now.

Rob: I’ll have to pull that out and have a listen!


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Deniz: Yeah, so there’s a lot of mixes of stuff in there. We had a pretty broad base of influences. We liked a lot of different kinds of music.

Steve: It seems like in Australia you could do that sort of thing more easily than you might elsewhere.

Deniz: I wouldn’t say easily…

Rob: No, I don’t think so at all.

It’s only that we came on fairly strongly with it and maybe turned people’s heads around with it. Not that we were universally liked from the outset or anything. It gathered a bit of momentum, but not really! Our stuff was pretty left of field at the start and I think people around Sydney just wanted to hear Free and Deep Purple covers and **** like that.

Deniz: Yeah, that’s right. When we started off it was mostly laid back boogie bands and bands that would do sort of electric blues like Company Kane and the La Dee Das, and things like that. Then there were bands that would cover whatever song was popular from the band that had most recently toured in Australia, because in those days not that many bands would come out. When I first got there, everybody was doing Deep Purple and Led Zeppelin songs because those two bands had come out in the early part of that year, and that’s what people wanted to hear. So when we started to do what we did, it took years for us to get more than one or two people to come along and see us.

Steve: As long as we are going back to the beginning, I thought I’d try my trick question, which is to get Rob to describe TV Jones for me and then get Deniz to talk about the Rats a little. So maybe Rob I can put you on the spot and ask you to go first.

Rob: Oh, dear! OK, well, basically TV Jones (pauses as Deniz laughs in the background) – TV Jones were a great band, because they were different. They were just as different as anything that Deniz was a part of later on. Deniz used to be the front man in that band – he didn’t always have a guitar in his hand. From that I actually probably learned a bit myself. But the style of music that they were playing – the covers were anything from J. Geils to Alice Cooper, the Stooges, the Stones, and that type of thing. The originals they were writing were complimentary to that. They had a sort of a glam aspect about them, too, which in a way my own band the Rats did at the time. So there was a fair bit of common ground. I never saw their earliest gigs, which were mostly at this place called the Charles, wasn’t it Deniz, down my way where I live now?

Deniz: Yeah, the Charles Hotel.

Rob: Yeah, and they apparently had developed a pretty large following down there. So they actually had a great base of appeal. They weren’t unattractive to look at either. Apparently they’d cut quite a dash down there. I dunno, I think you had a couple of name changes before you arrived at TV Jones. But I was impressed.

Steve: So how about the Rats, Deniz?

Deniz: The Rats was the first really hardcore rock band I saw in Australia. I heard about them because my roommate, the guy who had the lease at the student house I was living in was Ron Keely – that house actually was the site of the formation of a lot of personal relationships that are still going on today. John Needham (Citadel Records founder and a key figure in Australian indie rock for the last 20 years – Steve) was one of the other students who lived in that house. We just sort of met there because we picked up an ad foor a room in a student house, and Ron was the guy who was running the household. I rented a room in that house, if you can believe this, for six dollars and fifty cents a week. (laughs)

Rob: Now it would be six hundred and fifty dollars!

Deniz: Yeah, exactly. But Ron was a drummer, and he knew some other musicians in Sydney, and it was through him that I’d met Rob and got in touch with the Rats. I think Ron actually played me a tape of the Rats before I saw them, and the tape sounded great. I guess it reminded me a lot of the New York Dolls at the time. It had a lot of similar elements to the Dolls, and they actually covered a few New York Dolls songs.

Rob: Yeah, we played about six off the first album alone! (laughs) The first song I ever did was "Bad Girl", actually.

Deniz: Yeah, and you used to do "Jet Boy" and "Personality Crisis" and things like that. But then I got to see them. It was a two guitar lineup. Warwick was the lead player, Warwick Gilbert. I think he played through a Fender amp, but he had the treble and volume on ten and the bass on zero – just this incredible slicing treble sound, and the only thing I’d heard that came close to that before was Williamson on Raw Power. Just this incredibly biting treble. So they had that going, and the rhythm guitar player was named Mick Lyon, and he just had this style where he played like every down stroke that the Ramones played, plus every backstroke, too. It was just this wall of noise coming out of his amp.

Rob: Yeah, he played a Telecaster thinline.

Deniz: You couldn’t even see his hand going up and down, he was playing that fast. And since it was a thinline Tele, again it was extreme treble. It was this incredibly abrasive yet somehow compelling wall of noise coming out of this band, and then Rob singing. I think in the early days they were doing makeup and stuff and had a great look, and it was the only thing out there that was different. So we immediately became pals and started going to each other’s gigs, and I think we had at least one gig together. Down in Wollongong, didn’t we?

Rob: Yeah, I think we did one or two.

Deniz: I think about five people showed up.

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Rob: Yeah, we often outnumbered the audiences, I think. But I remember Ron Keely saying he knew a guy who played the same sort of stuff that the Rats were playing, and I just said, "Oh, bull****. There’s no chance!" And he said "I can introduce you". And I said there’s no way that any bands out here know anything about the Dolls and the Stooges and all that. But we got together eventually.

Deniz: In fact I remember the night very well when he brought you over to the house.

I was trying to have a quiet evening at home listening to my records and all these people started turning up.

Rob: ****, I’m sorry!

Deniz: So I look up from headphones and there’s all these people in the room, and they look like a band!


Steve: So then the origin of Radio Birdman was when Deniz you got kicked out of TV Jones…

Deniz: Yeah, I was sacked from the band. As Rob said, we had a little popularity in Wollongong, which was a town – I guess it was a coal mining or steel mining place about 100 kilometers south of Sydney. It’s a blue collar town, and that’s where we had gigs. We had a residency at this hotel there, the Charles Hotel. You know, in Australia, hotels are pubs. That’s their word for a pub – "hotel". It’s not like you’re going to the Hilton. It was just this corner pub. They had bands, and we would get to play every Friday and Saturday night and get a free meal and a few bucks and free beer. At the time I was student in Sydney and I had to hitch-hike down there every Friday or Saturday afternoon and hitch-hike back on Sunday afternoon.

So we decided to make the move up to Sydney, because we saw that as going to the big time. We thought we were doing so great in Wollongong and we had no problems in generating this vibe down there that we just assumed that when we went to Sydney we’d be popular there, too. And that was quite a wrong assumption, because the minute we got to Sydney problems started.

We got a one week residency in Checkers, and the other band that we were opening for was Sherbet. We would do four sets, Sherbet would do one set, and then we would do a last quick set. After the first night we got fired from that gig. We showed up on day two to play and all our stuff was thrown off the stage – equipment was on the dance floor and these heavy grade bouncers were telling us "Get all your **** out of here now, or we’ll confiscate it and you won’t see it again." Try to argue with these guys and cop an attitude and they offer to break both of your hands and put you in the garbage bin out back.

We didn’t have a van organized or anything but we had to get our stuff out of there. We played at the Whisky and it was the same thing again, and we couldn’t get a gig after that. So to make a long story short, the other guys in the band said it must be Deniz. There’s this vibe of negativity – that was the word they used – he’s too negative on stage…

Rob: (laughs) You were!

Deniz: (ignores Rob and continues) …and we’re not doing the covers people want to hear and it’s unpopular. So we’ve gotta get rid of Deniz and get somebody that we’re more likely to be successful with. So they came around the house and said I was going to be out of the band.

Rob: Yeah, I was there. That was hilarious!

Deniz: Yeah, Rob was actually there when it happened.

Steve: So what happened Rob?

Rob: (laughs again) They were all sitting around telling him he was Mister Bad Vibes on stage and they wanted to be a bit more, you know, um, welcoming to the people. Bands like Hush and so forth that played things that were more commercial. It wasn’t exactly like their music was all so left of field anyway. It was quite accessible stuff – it was rocking! But nevertheless, they couldn’t tolerate it…Deniz probably gave the audience a few vacant stares and a few glares and was doing a lot of various moves and stuff like that, the sort of thing that people around Sydney had never seen before, really. And I dunno, maybe that non-plussed an audience, but to me it was just the icing on the cake. They could play!

In fact, the Rats were dead primitive and I could understand if people hated us, but with TV Jones, they had more musicality about them. They had a level of confrontation to them to, but I couldn’t figure out what the other guys were on about. It was ridiculous. They got this sort of milquetoast character to sing sort of more in the British vein, I suppose, more of the upper range shrieking a la … that type of thing, you know?

Deniz: The guy’s name was Paul Greene, and he came on the stage with TV Jones as the new singer wearing jump suits, a big moustache and kind of a poofy feathered haircut. And he had a snake, too, so they could cover the Alice Cooper aspect. And of course, we all know where that all ended up!

Rob: Exactly. So I’m sitting here listening to all this **** and I’m thinking, well, this is just great, because now we can get a band together. So I was lapping it up. I thought it was quite amusing.

Steve: So were the Rats coming apart at that time?

Rob: I think we had just broken up ourselves. This happened almost concurrently (or is it simultaneously). I think Warwick just rang me up one day and said he couldn’t carry on with it, so that pretty much broke the band up. So that was that. And Deniz and I had struck up a bit of a friendship. One of the bases of our conversations in his living room was "Who’s better, James Williamson or Keith Richards?" and stuff like that. And that was it, a friendship was forged and we got something together after that.

Steve: When you first started as Radio Birdman, were you doing a lot of Rats and TV Jones tunes along with some covers, or did you start writing new material right away?

Deniz: Well, it’s obvious that we want to use the best of the two previous bands, so we did some of the same covers – we were doing "Personality Crisis" that the Rats were doing, and I think we did some Velvet Underground stuff…

Rob: Yeah, we did "Waiting For The Man" and "Rock and Roll" – stuff like that.

Deniz: Probably about half the stuff was from the previous two bands and the other half of the set was stuff that we got together for Radio Birdman. The first couple of original songs I wrote, we had been doing those in TV Jones as well and we transmitted those onto Radio Birdman. Things like "Man With Golden Helmet", "Monday Morning Gunk" and "I-94", which originally was called "Eskimo Pies". TV Jones had actually done a recording session and we got a couple of those songs on tape.

Steve: That was that single that just came out in Europe a little while ago, right?

Deniz: Well, sort of. That single, half of that single was TV Jones and the other half was a Radio Birdman out take. The guy made an error that put it out. He had a tape and he figured it was all TV Jones, but there was a mix of stuff on it. We had the better part of an album done, but the tape got erased or recorded over and used again for something else, and all we had was cassette dubs of the stuff.

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Steve: At the start, Deniz, you and Pip were both in med school, which seems like a pretty serious case of burning the candle at both ends.

Deniz: I dunno. You’ve gotta do something else. You can’t just sit around and study all the time. Pip had been in a later version of TV Jones, so we’d been playing together for probably about a year before Radio Birdman started up. Pip was an interesting character because he’d never played rock music before and didn’t know anything about it. The closest he’d gotten to rock music was something like John Mayall. He’d been playing jazz and classical music. So especially with his classical music background, his tempo was whatever he wanted it to be at that moment. Which made his playing really, really interesting as far as fitting in with the rigid 4/4 format of a rock band. There was a lot of give and take there, and I think the results were that he sounded different from everyone else.

But the other guys in TV Jones didn’t particularly like Pip. First of all, they’d never met anyone else who was intelligent like Pip was, so he was kind of intimidating to them for that reason. But also, they didn’t understand his time and pitch freedom as being freedom. They understood it as he couldn’t play 4/4. So I think Pip had been tossed out of the band just before I was.

But as far as having time to play in a band…I suppose I could have done better in medical school if I’d studied harder. But I did OK. I got a credit and distinction and got through OK. Most of the stuff you learn in medical school you never use again anyway in the real world. So I think it’s actually more important in life to have other experiences. Look at most doctors and they have zero understanding of most normal people because they’ve never been around them – they’ve just had their head in the books their whole life.

Steve: Well, you gotta admit it’s an unusual thing. There haven’t been many bands with even one doctor in them, let alone two.

Deniz: But if you have one it attracts more.

Steve: Probably true! Changing gears, Rob, can you tell me some of the details about recording the Burn My Eye ep and how you came to the idea of releasing it on your own?

Rob: Oh, dear, I’m fairly hazy on the details of all of that. I remember we became acquainted with this journalist who was the editor of this magazine called RAM – Rock Australia Magazine is what it stood for – and this guy Anthony O’Grady took us around to various studios introducing us to producers and engineers and getting us to try to put down a couple tracks here and there. Mostly it didn’t work out terribly well, but eventually he took us to meet the people at Trafalgar, which was Charles Fisher and an engineer that he worked with called John Sayers. And we hung around that studio and I suppose we must have talked about what we wanted to do, the direction of the band, how we saw ourselves – I can’t really recall. I can only recall that we kind of reached a point where we couldn’t agree, and it looked like the discussion was breaking down, and someone suggested, why don’t you just go in there and set up and play something anyway. And so we knocked out a couple of songs and they seemed really interested after that.

Deniz: Yeah, we were ready to walk out because there was such a divergence in attitude between us and those guys. This was about the third or fourth studio that we had tried to work with and each one had failed as far as we were concerned. They didn’t like us and we didn’t like them. And the same thing was happening here with the discussion. We thought, this is hopeless, we’re going to leave. We’re out of here. But then Charles said, well, you know, you’re here, you’ve got your equipment here, you might as well just play a couple of songs. And we said OK.

And you know what, they started to like us!

Rob: Yeah, which was to their credit, I suppose, from our point of view. Because hardly anyone ever did. So that was a surprise in itself. But I suppose we have to give credit to Anthony O’Grady for being so persistent as well.

Deniz: Yeah, he was willing to continue to take us around to other studios after the first couple of mishaps.

Rob: I think we went to one studio, it was something like 2SER radio station and I think we smoked out the console didn’t we?

Steve: Did Trafalgar actually pay for recording the ep and pressing it up, or how did you finance that?

Deniz: Yeah, Trafalgar paid.

Steve: Because it would have seemed like a pretty gutsy move if you had paid for it all yourself. But even so, the way you sold it was pretty unusual for the time.

Deniz: Well, Trafalgar wasn’t a label then, it was just a studio, and they’d never put a record out before under their own name. It was just a studio for hire. So this was a pretty bold move for them to go out on the limb and do an independent record. I don’t know if that had ever been done before in Sydney.

Rob: We weren’t aware that it had. I thought it was the first independent release. I’d never seen a record come out with no logo or anything on the label.

Steve: I’m not sure if it came first, but the one other that springs to mind is the first Saints single.

Rob: Yeah, but this was before that. (Note – Ian MacFarlane’s Encyclopedia of Australian Rock and Pop pegs the release date of Burn My Eye as October 1976 and the Saints debut on their own Fatal Records of "(I’m) Stranded" as September 1976 – almost like Bell and Marconi practically simultaneously inventing the telephone!)

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Steve: Were you surprised at how fast they sold out? Or were you expecting that it would sell pretty well?

Rob: I don’t remember. I just remember stamping the things. They were all white label records and we had a Radio Birdman symbol on a stamp and I was just sitting in the Trafalgar office stamping them. Then they’d get parceled up and sent out mail order. I think there were only about 1800 or so ever pressed up.

Deniz: Didn’t they go for about a dollar or two dollars?

Rob: Yeah, something like that. A dollar seventy five, maybe. Probably that was fairly reasonable in those days.

Steve: Yeah, but still selling 1800 of anything that’s relatively unknown is really hard. Even with the internet, I can tell you that with my label I do a thousand copies of something and it takes me years to make a dent in it.

Deniz: Yeah, that’s right, Steve, but look how many records are being put out now that you’re competing with. Whereas in those days there just wasn’t that much.

Steve: I suppose that’s fair enough. Well, another story I was hoping you’d re-tell is the story of how you met Lou Reed at the Sydney Airport and how that led to the Oxford Funhouse.

Deniz: Yeah, you know, I’ve told this story so many times that sometimes it’s hard to remember what’s really true about it and what I read in Vivien’s book. But to the best that I can recall, we knew that Lou Reed was going to be at the airport, and I wanted to go and see the press conference and I wanted to give him a Radio Birdman T-shirt. I had this idea to give him a T-shirt, but we didn’t have any T-shirts, so I went over to Dare’s house – Dare Jennings. He had just started silk screening. That’s even a much more incredible story, because this guy essentially owns Mambo (a clothing line similar to Quiksilver or Billabong that’s made Jennings one of the richest men in Australia according to Tek – Steve) and is a world clothing magnate now. But the first thing he did was a Radio Birdman T-shirt.

So I got him to make one, and Lou Reed answered these questions, and he was pretty tired after a long flight and was really kind of rude to these journalists. And I’m just listening at the back, and at the end of this press conference I walked up to him and handed him the T-shirt and said, this T-shirt is a present for you. And he said, oh, is this a local band? And I said yeah. And he said, local band, great! Are you playing? And I said yeah. But we didn’t really have a gig, and when he took off his secretary came up and said, Lou wants to see your band. Where are you playing? And we didn’t have a gig, so I said, I don’t know, I don’t have my calendar with me right now, can I call you back? So I got her phone number and then we went and scrambled for a gig.

At this point, this was like mid 1975, this was the low point in terms of success for us. We’d been banned from all the major pubs on the circuit in Sydney. No place would have us. So we got the idea of going back to the Oxford, which is where the Rats used to play. Rob and Ron knew the guy that ran the thing, and they asked the guy – his name was Bill – if we could play there. They said, you don’t have to pay us, we just want to play, and our friends will come. Oh, and Lou Reed will come. And Bill said, well, if Lou Reed’s gonna come, you can play, but you’re not getting any money.

And we said, OK that’s fine, we’ll play. So we set up and our friends came, and it was actually a pretty good night. But of course Lou Reed never came. By then he’d forgotten about it or he blew it off. But it was a good night, and Bill actually came up to us after and gave us a ten dollar bill. I remember that really clearly. We’re sitting there, sweat-soaked, the place is full of beer cans and equipment, and we’re completely exhausted, and Bill goes, just to show you guys I appreciate how good you played, here’s ten bucks and be sure to pick up all these beer cans on your way out.

But then Bill wanted us to come back and play again, because a lot of people came and they drank a lot of beer. So that started off the residency for us at the Oxford. That’s how I remember it. Is that how you remember it, Rob?

Rob: Yeah, pretty much. I remember you also telling me at the time that Lou said something to the affect of see those people over there – he’s pointing at the journalists – he said "****ing animals!". I remember you telling me that. I was impressed!

Steve: So after that you had a lot of pretty interesting bands play there with you that aren’t very well known outside of Australia, and probably aren’t even that well known inside Australia today, like Johnny Dole, or the Psychosurgeons, or the Hellcats, or the Mangrove Boogie Kings or those kinds of bands. Can you describe some of those?

Rob: Well, the Mangrove Boogie Kings were basically a rockabilly band. They were nice guys, and they played pretty well and had a huge repertoire. They were deeply rooted in the 50s. And Johnny Dole and the Scabs were playing 60s sort of songs, like Easybeats gear and so forth, maybe a few of their own, but in a more amped up way, more in the line of what became the punky sort of feel I guess. And who were the others we’re talking about?

Steve: The Hellcats?

Rob: Hellcats, yeah, well I think by the time the Hellcats were playing I seem to recall they had Damned songs and things like that in their set, didn’t they Deniz? They were doing "Born To Kill" and **** like that?

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Deniz: Yeah, that was ’77. They were doing some of those early punk songs from England, and they were also doing some odd sort of gear like Beach Boys songs, but in an amped up way. They were doing "Fun Fun Fun" and things like that.

Rob: Yeah, I remember you being really taken by Mark Kingsmill’s drumming.

Deniz: I thought his drumming was really great and I loved Charlie Georges guitar playing.

Rob: Yeah, he had a tough style. It was mostly me and the Radio Birdman manager George Kringas who were booking that place, and I think we even either printed up leaflets or published some sort of little manifesto – it’s a bit embarrassing to think of it now – but it was basically like a set of rules about what you could wear in the place. But we were just trying to sort of give the place a kind of exclusive feel and create a sort of insular atmosphere and alienate the people that we thought were into all the weak stuff that we perceived as wimpy (laughs). So there were all these rules and edicts and ****, you know? We were trying to book bands in there that we thought were really like minded. But it wasn’t easy to do that, because there weren’t too many around there like that. So often that idea got compromised. And when we couldn’t play there ourselves, we had to get someone else in and now and then we’d have an expedient sort of band and we’d hear later on "****, don’t ever get them again", you know. It was the sort of stuff that we loathed in the first place.

Deniz: But for the most part the idea was to try to get bands in there to play that had a hard time finding any where else to play because they were rejects like us. That was the idea, for rebellious people that would be rejected by the music establishment, they could play there. And the other idea was to turn all the money over to the bands. We kept nothing…we paid the girl at the door twenty bucks to take dollars at the door, and the guys who owned the bar got whatever the bar tab was, but all the door money, the band owned it.

Steve: Do you feel like having that place had a lot to do with developing bands in Sydney?

Deniz: I think some bands started just to play there. The Psychosurgeons probably started up just to play there.

Rob: Now, they were a pretty wild outfit.

Deniz: They later transformed into the Lipstick Killers, but originally they had a different singer and a different drummer. That was Mark Taylor’s band. They were pretty far out, those guys.

Next issue the story continues with the recording of the Radios Appear lp, getting signed to Sire, touring the UK, splitting up, and the reunion tours of the mid 90s.


continued......

[Santos L Helper]

"John: Yeah, and there was Where's the Pope? too. Frank would always mention us on stage in their gigs, wear our T-shirts and try to educate their audience - I think that helped a lot. These kids there going "yeah right, god Frank says this band is okay, so let's go and check em out fellas."
Thanks for the mention John old mate.

ps. Dave Bunny, the Mices drummer was WTP?'s sound engineer for two years too. What an incestuous place Adelaide is.

[dreamkillers]

continued.......

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This article completes the interview with Rob Younger and Deniz Tek of Radio Birdman whose first part appeared in The Big Takeover #49. In that issue, Younger and Tek described the origins of the band and traced their rise from a detested band that couldn’t get a gig to the force behind Sydney’s underground scene, booking the Oxford Funhouse with like minded groups and building a scene of hard rocking Detroit influenced bands from ground zero.

In this installment, the story picks up at the height of the band’s achievement and traces their history through their demise. The band recorded their first classic lp, Radios Appear, for Australian release and then were signed by Sire for the international market. The Sire version of Radios Appear featured several different songs and new packaging. A fiery cover of the Stooges "TV Eye" and the old TV Jones tune "Monday Morning Gunk" were dropped off and their anthem "New Race" was shortened by nearly two minutes, but a brilliant cover of Roky Erickson’s "You’re Gonna Miss Me" and four new originals more than made up for the shortfall. The best of the new tracks was perhaps "Aloha Steve And Danno", which copped the theme from "Hawaii 5-0" for its bridge and even today is without question one of the toughest surf songs of all time.

I can still remember picking up my used promo copy of Radios Appear for $1.99 in a bin at Al Bums Records in Tucson in the summer of 1978. I’d never heard of the band, but they were on Sire, and almost everything else on Sire was great, so I figured it was worth a go. It seemed an odd record for the times…the cover showed six band members (everyone else had either 3, 4 or 5) on the front looking like for all the world like some kind of special forces group with guitars – the Dirty Half Dozen.

Inside, the music was something different, too. It was ferociously hard driving rock and roll, but it sure wasn’t anything like the 1-2-3-4 three chord rock coming out of the UK. There were murderous guitar solos, keyboard flourishes, and textures lifted from jazz, soul, surf, garage rock, 60s pop and hard rock all mixed together in a bewildering montage. Although scarcely a word was written about the band in any of the music magazines I read, it was pretty clear to me that this record was a keeper.

Unfortunately, by the day I got that record, the band was already nearing the end of its lifetime. Sire sent them to the UK for a tour that ended in disaster. Vivien Johnson’s book on Radio Birdman does a terrific job of describing the tensions leading to the band’s break-up – there’s only room to hint at the issues in this interview. From that UK tour period a second album ultimately surfaced in Living Eyes, a slightly more subtle record than the debut, but still a powerful piece of work.

The mid 1990s saw a flurry of Radio Birdman activity in Australia. The band recovered the original multi-track tapes to Living Eyes from Rockfield studios and produced a re-mixed CD version of that recording that greatly toughened up the sound. At the same time, they also re-mastered Radios Appear for CD and made substantial improvements in that one as well. This activity led to the band re-uniting for tours in Australia the next two years, where they often played to more fans in a single gig than they did in their entire 70s career. A live-to-radio show from that period was released as the CD Ritualism.

Radio Birdman’s legacy continues to this day. Vocalist Rob Younger has fronted the brilliant New Christs for most of the past 20 years and has made a pile of brilliant records and CDs (see issue 48). He’s also made a name for himself as the producer of dozens of great Australian independent records for other bands. Deniz Tek married Angie Pepper, former lead singer of the Passengers and the Angie Pepper Band, and after a career as a fighter pilot moved to Montana where he has been an emergency room doctor for many years. He still hits the road now and then under his own name or with the band Deep Reduction and has several great solo CDs to his credit.

Fans of Radio Birdman should also search out the New Race CD The First and the Last, which documents an end of the 70s tour by an all-star pick-up group featuring Tek, Younger, Radio Birdman bassist Warwick Gilbert, Stooges guitarist Ron Asheton, and MC5 drummer Denis Thompson. The one lp by Tek’s post-Birdman group the Visitors is also strongly recommended – it’s been reissued on CD under the title Visitation. Chris Masuak has also participated in loads of post-Birdman recordings with the Hitmen, Screaming Tribesmen, Juke Savages, and also under his own name.

We’ll pick up where the interview left off in issue #49…


Steve: Can you talk a little about how you recorded the original Radios Appear album?

Deniz: It was a lengthy process. You made the comment earlier that Trafalgar funded the ep and the sessions and stuff, well what really was happening was that we got to use the studio when nobody else was booked in and when they didn’t have any paying customers. So we were using an infrastructure that was already there and pretty much already paid for, they just had to have the engineer and turn the lights on. But we only could get in there when nobody else was using the studio. So it took like a year to get all the stuff together. If we had a free weekend and the studio had a free weekend we could go in.

But that didn’t happen very often, and it was tedious, because we had to haul everything in and set it up, set the drums up and get a drum sound. Sometimes we’d record a little bit in the afternoon and then we’d have to tear everything down and go to a gig, and then come back the next day, Sunday.

Rob: I don’t remember it being so spread out – I have no recollection of that at all! But I remember all those sheets of corrugated iron that we used to liven the room up a bit. It always seemed a somehow little bit muffled or subdued. It was one of those LA or west coast designed studios for Eagles sort of music or something, wasn’t it?

Deniz: Yeah, and it was heavily carpeted. Everything on it was carpeted – the walls, the ceilings. The only thing that wasn’t carpeted was the window on the control room. And even that was some kind of special glass that muffled sound.

Rob: (laughs) Bull****! (all laugh)

Deniz: So we would bring in sheets of corrugated iron roofing material from the streets, bring it in our van into the studio. The engineer thought we were being deliberately contrary, but we weren’t – we were just trying to make it sound a little harder. And if you listen to the sound of the record now, it sounds pretty good. One of the things I’ve been asked a lot in interviews lately since this thing came out is: how come it endures? How come it still sounds OK when everything else recorded around those days sounds dated?

And I think one of the things that makes it endure is that the production was pretty straight forward. They didn’t use a lot of gimmicks. We got a good guitar sound, and we played really loud in there, and we had the corrugated iron to help it sound harder.

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Steve: Can you tell the story about how you got signed by Sire? I heard that Seymour Stein came to Sydney to sign you, is that right?

Rob: He came to sign the Saints, I think.

Deniz: He was there to sign the Saints, but somebody dragged him along to one of our shows at the Oxford Funhouse. At least that’s what I remember hearing.

Rob: He was dancing on a table, apparently!

Deniz: I never see things like that because I always have my head down.

Rob: Yes, I know. You are quite diligent, but I have the luxury of perusing the room and, yeah, he was over there doing all this. And he came to another gig, that one we did at the ABC TV studio. And subsequently he had a meeting with us out in Trafalgar in the control room there, and he was deep into it by then. He was talking about us going to the UK and supporting the Ramones as it was going to be at the time, and tour around there. But as we know, it turned out to be the Groovies.

Steve: Why was the overseas version of Radios Appear different from the original Australian one? It seems like it’s half a second album and half a first album – it always struck me as strange that you didn’t just release the Australian version outside of Australia or else do an entirely new lp.

Rob: What happened there? Did we get cold feet or something? Maybe we just thought we could make a stronger album. I know we had some more new songs.

Deniz: I think when Sire signed us up for the world wide release of Radios Appear that was one of our conditions. We said, we’ve been living with this album for about nine months now and there’s a lot of things about it we’d like to change. If it’s going to go out to the whole world, we’d like to make it better. We’d been in the studio recording some new songs. Not nearly enough to make a whole second album. but enough to change it. And we figured, who’s ever going to hear the Australian version of the album anyway? We weren’t really thinking globally.

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Steve: Can you talk about some of the tours you did to other parts of Australia and how you influenced the music scene there? Just as an example, I’m working on another feature for my website with Rob Griffiths of the Little Murders, and he was telling me how impressed he was when he saw Radio Birdman on the first tour to Melbourne.

Rob: We hear that quite often from people, about how some of these gigs really were like seminal moments in their lives. They say that’s case and it’s really quite flattering when you hear it. I think people like Nick Cave used to come to some of those Melbourne shows, I believe, and all that crowd.

Deniz: There was a big difference between the first time we saw them and the second. They were quite friendly the first time around and invited us to a party or something.

But the second time we came back they copped a pretty hostile attitude. So I suppose that’s an influence of sorts.

Steve: Was it sort of a competitive thing?

Deniz: I don’t know if it was competitive or whether it was genuine hate. I don’t know.

Steve: It doesn’t seem like they’d have much reason to dislike you…

Deniz: What I picked up at the time was that they’d found out that a couple of us went to medical school and they thought that that signified a lack of commitment – as compared to being a junkie or something like that, which implied more commitment. (much laughter from all)

Rob: I wouldn’t argue with that!

Deniz: Yeah, that’s what I picked up.

Steve: One of those Adelaide shows got shown on TV, didn’t it?

Rob: Yeah, the Marriatville show, they filmed about seven or eight songs, I think. Sort of washed the whole room out with these really bright lights and I had two microphones to sing through, one for the PA and one for the recording. It was actually a bit inhibiting in a way. But that footage is really well regarded, and they keep recycling it on the ABC late at night to this day. We broke the attendance record of that place. It wasn’t doing so well in those days, but we got over 900 people that night and the place was jammed. It was quite exciting going to Adelaide the first time. That’s the city that gave the Beatles the biggest reception they’d ever gotten anywhere in the world too. There was like 400,000 people out to see the Beatles, and there’s barely that many in the whole frigging city!

So there must be something about that place. But it was quite satisfying to feel that momentum building up. But there were still strange things going on. There were people from TV stations – like we did an interview after that particular gig that was filmed, and I believe that the person who conducted that interview subsequently had a nervous breakdown and said that "if Radio Birdman come back to Adelaide it’s going to bring down the government" and all this ****. I think the guy went right around the bloody bend.

But we seem to have evoked pretty strange reactions from people where ever we went. We were still getting banned at different times, weren’t we, even at that point. Yet popularity was building and we were getting radio airplay, too.

Deniz: Some of us, I don’t know if you were with us that night Rob or not, but that first time we went to Adelaide, some us went to see Fleetwood Mac play at an outdoor concert.

Rob: Yeah, I went to that.

Deniz: We wanted George to get Stevie Nicks to come back to the Grange with us. We actually thought he might be able to do it. Talk about hubris! (laughs)

Rob: I didn’t know that went on, but I went to the show.

Deniz: Yeah, George went off somewhere after we really goaded him and pestered him, and he came back fifteen minutes later and said "sorry, I can’t get you backstage". And that was when we ran into Blondie, wasn’t it?

Rob: Oh, yeah, one of the trips down there. I suppose it was that first one. The place we were staying was called the Grange, right on the beach there. The beach with no surf. And the guy who was putting us up there, our friend Patrick Miles who had the rock column in the Adelaide Advertiser and he’s the one who championed us and was the catalyst in getting us over there – Blondie were touring so he invited us over there. So we got to meet the band and so forth. She seemed really sweet. Yeah, I’d forgotten about that.

Steve: Can you talk about the final tour that you did to England and how that got arranged and all the problems between Phonogram and Sire and all that?

Rob: Deniz is probably more expert on this because there were a lot of things I didn’t even know went on until about ten years after the fact. It’s quite strange – I keep learning things about what went on before I arrived in England, because Deniz and our manager went over before the band did. I’m still learning, so I’d be happy to hear anything.

Deniz: Well, I don’t really know what’s true and what’s not true at this point. But what I learned from George – he was sort of keeping me informed as we went along up to a point – the tour was organized by a promoter over there named Ed Bicknell who was Dire Straits’ manager. That was before they really got big – a couple years before. Ed was recommended by Philips, which was the Polygram subsidiary that we were on over there. They were the distributor for Sire. So Sire said go tour, and they arranged through the distributor to finance the tour, and Ed Bicknell put the tour together.

We get over there and rehearse and we’re just starting the tour, and the records are in the warehouse, and the next thing we know Sire has split from Polygram. There’s some rift between those two companies and the relationship is gone between those two. We were only signed to Sire and we only had a relationship with Polygram by proxy. So there’s no reason for Polygram to continue to do tour support other than that they’ve got warehouses full of these albums, which in the end weren’t even shipped anywhere and weren’t getting to stores.

Because the relationship was dead between them and our label, they just sort of let the record die.

But somehow, George Kringas our manager managed to talked them into letting us finish the tour. So we went on the tour anyway, while knowing that things were bad relationship-wise, and where ever we went the record wouldn’t be in the stores or available to people. So it was kind of demoralizing.

It’s amazing that George was able to get them to continue to fund the tour and not just cancel it, but he did that, and we even went into the studio as previously scheduled and recorded the next album, again, just sort of running on fumes because there was no real backing.

About half through this, or three quarters of the way through that we found out that we also were dropped from Sire. So Polygram dropped Sire, and Sire dropped us. My understanding was that Sire dropped a whole bunch of other bands at the same time, like the Dead Boys. They only kept a few bands…they kept the Ramones, they kept the Talking Heads, and they kept the two bands that were paying for all the other bands at that stage, which were Renaissance and Focus. They were the acts on Sire that were actually earning money. Nothing else was earning money at that point – the other bands were just an expense.

So Sire had to retrench, I guess because of cash flow problems or whatever was happening with this distribution deal going bad. So we got dropped. That’s my understanding of it pretty much in a nutshell.

http://www.nkvdrecords.com/Endzon45_WEB.jpg

Steve: Can you talk about some of the gigs you played on that tour? There were gigs both in England and in Europe as well, right?

Deniz: We only played a couple shows in Europe that I can recall. Paris and Brussels and Amsterdam. Everything else was in the UK.

Steve: These were all with the Flamin’ Groovies, right?

Rob: Well, the Groovies had to pull out of it because Cyril Jordan fell over on this walkway down to a gig at this place in Brussels and he severed a tendon, I think, in his right hand, so they couldn’t play in that gig. So we filled in for both the nights, I think. And I think we did OK, actually.

I think one night they hauled us off the stage, which apparently is a customary thing in that area, for rival promoters to ring up and say "there’s a bomb in the place" and stuff like that, so we had to clear off on one night.

Deniz: Yeah, and the next night after that one, we went to Amsterdam and opened for Van Halen.

Rob: We didn’t play with them I don’t think, we went and saw them. I remember going to see them. We didn’t actually play with them, did we?

Deniz: No, they played after us at the Paradiso.

Rob: No, ****! Christ, I remember seeing them, I remember their singer David Lee Roth standing over at the side of the stage beseeching the balcony, because it had this balcony running high around the side of it, and he was shrieking "I’m on fire, I’m on fire!". And this guy’s up on the top there and right through the center of the spotlight that’s beaming down on Roth he pours this beer, and you could just see the stream going right into his head. And he was shaking his fist and cursing this bastard up on top there. That was the highlight of that show for me! And their insane bass player strutting around there…

Deniz: I really didn’t know who they were then. They might have been famous and I didn’t know about it, or they weren’t famous yet, but I didn’t know who Van Halen was. They were just another band on the top of the bill. But I’ve got a great photo of us playing at that gig, there with that big circular balcony.

Rob: I just remember George struggling and cursing getting the banner put up behind the stage there, and none of us would help him. It was a huge banner and he was really perched on the top of this ladder trying to pin this damned thing up. I think he was pretty sour about that.

Deniz: We didn’t really know what to do, because we didn’t know if the Flamin’ Groovies cancellation of the rest of the tour was going to affect us, or if we were going to keep going, or what was going to happen. There was just one thing after another going wrong.

Rob: We went off and did a lot of gigs on our own after that.


continued.......

[dreamkillers]

continued.......

http://www.nkvdrecords.com/Rbpubsht_WEB.jpg

Steve: You had a pretty rough time with the press, didn’t you?

Rob: Well, we got a few unkind reviews, but we got a lot of great receptions at the gigs. It’s not accurate to say…a lot of people have perceived us as having gone down badly in the UK, but it’s not really true. We really killed at lots and lots of places where we played, and there actually were some occasions where there was some real yellow journalism going on. There was gig we did at the Hope and Anchor where, I think it was the third one we played there, and the previous two had been all right, too…I guess that’s why they had us back…and we killed it. The place was stacked. And this bastard from the NME, I think…could’ve been Sounds, but I think it was the NME…he reviewed the gig as being a real pile of **** and saying how people were walking out and criticized us for having six members, for Christ sakes, **** like this. But he was referring in his review to our songs by the names that only we would know, sort of abbreviated versions of the names.

And what turned out was that Patrick Miles, our publicist that I mentioned before from Adelaide, he saw this guy grab a set list and **** off after about three songs. So he didn’t stick around. So he reviewed the whole gig, **** canned us completely in a magazine that had a vast influence both in the UK and across Europe…

Deniz: And in Australia, too…

Rob: Yeah, and all this sort of **** was getting back, and the perception was that we were doing really badly. Now that was one gig where we really killed it.

Deniz: We killed it. We actually did three encores that gig, and it was a riot. People were throwing chairs, and it was unbelievable. And we’d NEVER get three encores – that was the only time in our life where we ever did it.

Rob: Yeah, that’s absolutely true, and even if there were a few isolated gigs where we didn’t play so well, the majority of times we really put in and we got a great response. Like that first gig at the Marquee was ****ing great! So I think we were pretty harshly treated at times.

Deniz: It was pretty inspiring to play at a place like the Marquee, when you’ve seen pictures of the Who playing there and the Stones.

Rob: The dressing room was covered with graffiti with the names of all these different groups, and I was just hoping that it was all genuine stuff and hadn’t just been scrawled up there in the last couple of weeks. Because it had all these famous band names written everywhere. It’s really marvelous to play there. It’s a good stage – a great sounding stage.

Steve: Looking back now, even the Hope and Anchor is a hell of a place to have played. A lot of great bands played there – a lot of the pub rock bands and stuff like that.

Rob: Yeah, well I saw the Police there for 60p and there was only about 8 people in the crowd. They had no profile whatsoever. I actually didn’t like them much at all, though I thought the drummer was pretty **** hot.

Steve: But guys like Dr. Feelgood and Eddie and the Hotrods played there.

Rob: Yeah, but I never caught those.

Steve: On the second album, Living Eyes, you were in the middle of doing it when Sire dumped you and that led to the studio holding the tapes…can you talk about that?

Rob: Well, Deniz is the expert on this episode, because things went on in relation to this that I had no idea of at the time.

Deniz: All I know about that is that we recorded it at or around the time we were being dropped from Sire, so there was no release outlet for it at that moment. As far as payment of the studio I have no idea, but the studio did keep the tapes, so the tapes were available when it came time to do the remix in 1995. We were able to remix from the 24 track masters. The studio had maintained the tapes all that time.

Steve: How did you manage to pull out the tape that was used for the original release of Living Eyes?

Deniz: That was burned off a safety copy of the quarter inch tape.

Steve: So they knew you were taking it and they didn’t have any problem with that?

Deniz: No, they didn’t have any problem with that. But it was just a safety copy and was never meant to be used as a master. But we retained the rights to our stuff in Australia and New Zealand and Sire only had the copyright for the rest of the world for that record.

Steve: When did that first get released in Australia?

Deniz: 1981.

Steve: Was it on Traflagar?

Deniz: Yeah, Trafalgar. Or was it Warners?

Rob: ****, I don’t remember. It might have been Warners.

Deniz: Trafalgar might have… no, I think it was Trafalgar, wasn’t it?

Rob: I’m sitting not too far from a copy of it, so maybe I can haul it out. I just remember the times when we were recording that, the morale of the band was pretty low. Deniz was producing the record, and he was down in the studio a lot of the time, but we were in the process of a lot of infighting back up the hill at the manor house. Socially we were disintegrating at the same time as we were putting this album together, so it was a pretty fraught time. I don’t have very pleasant memories of that particular recording.

Steve: Bands are pretty fragile things in general, so I think all the stresses you’d been through sound pretty tough.

Rob: Yeah, it was pretty hard at the time.

Steve: In hindsight, are there things you can see that might have been better, like if you had just bailed out on the tour altogether and not gone when things started to go bad, do you think that would have made a difference?

Rob: It’s kind of hard to say, isn’t it?

Deniz: I never thought of it. I think everything that happened was pretty inevitable. We were just on that path.

Steve: Can you talk about the sequence of events that led to the remixing of Living Eyes in the mid 90s.

Rob: I think it was the guy from Red Eye Records who went to some great lengths, but I wasn’t terribly involved in all that. But I know the tapes were in bad shape and they had to be baked and all that sort of thing that they do to tapes that have been sitting in one spot for 20 years or whatever it was. I don’t know what to think about whether it was a good idea to remix some of that stuff or not, but when you have the opportunity to do those things, it’s hard to resist, I suppose.

Steve: My own view is that it’s one of the rare cases where the remastering and remixing really made a noticeable difference. There’s so many things that come out remixed or remastered where my reaction is: I don’t see any difference that would matter to anybody.

Rob: Sometimes it can affect the atmosphere and does it in a very complementary way. Sometimes people think you can make a record a lot better just by tweaking the treble…all the tops and this sort of ****. I notice this from old records that are remastered into CDs, suddenly you can hear all this stuff around the cymbals and so forth and people for some reason equate that with being an improvement. But I think we’ve actually improved the atmosphere of the original stuff, so the remixes probably toughened up the songs, anyway.

We left a few little things out here and there. It might be interesting for people who were acquainted with the first releases to compare them. I know when I got a copy of that Raw Power remix, the relatively recent one, and saw what was left in as opposed to what was on the original release of that. It’s kind of fascinating to hear what a band will do when they’ve gained a measure of control over their stuff, and how they must feel in retrospect and decide "oh, I’m going to sling that out because I’d never liked that anyway", whatever it is.

Steve: The one I really notice the difference on is "Crying Sun". It seems like the balance between the keyboard and guitars has changed substantially from the original to the remix.

Rob: Yeah, well, with "Crying Sun", the original mixing of that was a very contentious episode, so we were probably pretty conscious in the remixing of that one and we made a distinct improvement.

Steve: How did the reissues lead into the reunion tours? Was the sequence of events that you did the two reissues and then the tours happened after that?

Deniz: Yeah, I think the reunion tour was about nine months later.

Steve: My understanding is that those tours were pretty fantastically successful, is that right?

Rob: We had a good time, particularly the first one. We played to huge crowds, because a lot of them were big festival gigs around the country. That was pretty good. I think the band represented itself pretty well. We played a lot of big shows and were able to hold a really big room, really get their attention, and deliver a great show. I had a great time, particularly on that first tour.

Steve: Were those the biggest shows you ever played?

Rob: Oh, yeah, by far.

Steve: Were you surprised that there was that much of demand to see you?

Deniz: Yeah, I was. I had no idea how it was going to go over. But there was a lot of interest. I guess that’s one of the advantages of obscurity, that it generates interest. I suppose that people are attracted to things that are generally unavailable and obscure.

Steve: It seems like since you’ve split up, the importance of the band continues to grows steadily throughout the years. There’s more and more bands that are influenced by Radio Birdman, and people just don’t stop talking about Radio Birdman, and so the interest seems to just constantly build.

Rob: It’s bound to die out one day!

Deniz: Splitting up was probably our best move ever.

Rob: You can’t be too obscure, or no one will ever want you to come back in the first place.

Steve: Well, what is there about Radio Birdman that gives you the most satisfaction when you look back…particular songs where you feel like you really nailed it, or shows that stand out…what is there that really makes you feel proud about having been in that band?

Rob: Well, for me, I’m gratified that people really regard the band as making a difference in their lives. That’s a good thing, and I feel good about…there was a certain feeling in about the first year or so of the band, I thought that we were doing something that carried a lot of meaning for me. It’s rather hard to describe. I think it comes from just being…well Deniz and I were very close, and we were pariahs. We went out and wherever we turned up with that band we caused some ****. To me it seemed like that had meaning in itself. I found it really gratifying. Acceptance is one thing, but somehow the feeling that you’re breaking some kind of new ground is a special feeling. I can still get in touch with that, and I rather cherish that.

Deniz: I’d echo what Rob just said. To me the early days of never knowing if you were going to get beaten up or have equipment busted or get banned from the place or chased by the police, and persevering and still doing the music that we wanted to do on our own terms, regardless. Even if it’s two songs and they pull the plug, we still never compromised in the early days. We never did anything that we didn’t want to do. And as far as I’m concerned, we really stuck it to the established order of the day as far as the music scene goes. And that’s what I find gratifying, much more so than any sales of reissues now or general acceptance.

I mean, I’m glad also that people get enjoyment out of it. Obviously that’s great, but I think that for me, what I look back on most fondly are those early days of hardship, really. We had something going that was worth fighting for.

Steve: What was different seems to have been the intensity of commitment that you had; when you compare that to other bands who were trying to find a way to get popular without having something they were sticking to that was what they wanted to do. That whole idea of commitment to your music was not there for most bands.

Deniz: I think Rob and I and also the other guys in the band really share a deep love of great rock and roll music. Ever since we were kids we have. And that runs really deep. And to be able to be part of a tradition of that…it’s like getting that from when you’re a kid, and hearing this great stuff, and finding out cool things about bands that you like, and then being able to do some of that yourself in a way that hadn’t been done and then pass it on to whoever is coming along next, that’s a great thing to have participated in.



Well for those that were there at the time I hope that bought back some great memories and for those like me that were too young for their early days I hope you enjoyed looking back into the past of a truly legendary band that were really not recognised in their time...........:D........I know I've enjoyed putting these things together..........


So time to hear some more of your thoughts on these great Australian bands..........

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Santos L Helper
"John: Yeah, and there was Where's the Pope? too. Frank would always mention us on stage in their gigs, wear our T-shirts and try to educate their audience - I think that helped a lot. These kids there going "yeah right, god Frank says this band is okay, so let's go and check em out fellas."
Thanks for the mention John old mate.

ps. Dave Bunny, the Mices drummer was WTP?'s sound engineer for two years too. What an incestuous place Adelaide is.

I was wondering whether you'd pick that up...........:D

[Leaping Lindner]

Get a quick note to get this thread back near the top:D and to say what a smashing job Dreamkillers is doing.
A couple of points I've picked up. As a matter of interest The Mice weren't Paul Gilchrist's first band as he'd spent some time in Kaos just prior to the Mice. That being the case you could still argue that the Mice were Paul's first serious band.
Also where and when was that colour photo of the Mice from? I don't recognise anybody (and I didn't take 'that' many drugs in the 80's;) )
By the way anyone who has The Phantom compile album that features The Mark Of Cain doing the old Visitors number "Journey by Sledge" hang onto it. As far as I can work out it's the only form it's been released on and has never been re-released.And probably not likely to be.

As a slightly humorous aside. Jon Scott, Jeff Stephens ,Harry Butler and myself use to have a regular bowling date weekly at Norwood Bowl in 1994 just prior to Harry going overseas. We also had various "guest" bowlers from time to time. The four of us use to get quite a few odd looks as you can imagine.

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by Leaping Lindner
Get a quick note to get this thread back near the top:D and to say what a smashing job Dreamkillers is doing.
A couple of points I've picked up. As a matter of interest The Mice weren't Paul Gilchrist's first band as he'd spent some time in Kaos just prior to the Mice. That being the case you could still argue that the Mice were Paul's first serious band.
Also where and when was that colour photo of the Mice from? I don't recognise anybody (and I didn't take 'that' many drugs in the 80's;) )
By the way anyone who has The Phantom compile album that features The Mark Of Cain doing the old Visitors number "Journey by Sledge" hang onto it. As far as I can work out it's the only form it's been released on and has never been re-released.And probably not likely to be.

As a slightly humorous aside. Jon Scott, Jeff Stephens ,Harry Butler and myself use to have a regular bowling date weekly at Norwood Bowl in 1994 just prior to Harry going overseas. We also had various "guest" bowlers from time to time. The four of us use to get quite a few odd looks as you can imagine.

Thanks for that...............

After a bit of investigation the photo is from a show put on in celebration of the Ramones in 1999..............from the Official Ramones Site (http://officialramones.com)........

http://officialramones.com/site/News/crethop.gif

WHAT A PARTY For all of you late comers, the Cyberpunk Blitz took place at CBGB's on Dec. 17 1999, it was a celebration of real Ramones mania. Joey CJ and Tommy were there, Johnny and DeeDee apologized for their absence and promised to be there next time.

It truly a great night the looked and was Ramones-ready, stacks of Marshalls on one side Ampegs on the other side producing that familiar chainsaw sound and a drum kit with the classic setup first used by Tommy Ramone the bands original drummer.

There were 14 kick ass bands, we had fun playing with Tangerine Puppets, saw Exploding White Mice beat on the brats, got f-up with tequila in Durango 99 (Durango is a city in Mexico), it felt like an endless vacation. It was a battlefield when commando took the stage, there was plenty more Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy Crummy stuff.

Cheap beer and tequila gave us a case of Monte's Revenge and we had to be sedated to make it to the Ramonas, who tried to pick up the boys from 53rd n' 3rd and got into the danger zone by the time we heard the next 1-2-3-4 count. There was one more high power chord before the Melnicks hallucinations.

This was just the first part of the entertainment, then Joey and CJ announced the winners, they were Commando and Sedated for CJ, who performed a pair of killer sets. Then Joey Ramone himself announced his choice, and it was Durango 99 (aka The Huntingtons) as a Ramones fan you can imagine what these guys felt like performing with Joey Ramone in CBGB's the birthplace of the Ramones WOW!!!!!

The whole night was high energy and wildly fun a truly Mondo Bizarro experience.




Given the band had previous links with the Ramones I'm hoping the pics are genuine but you never know..........

Sounds like the bowling would have been a blast.......

[dreamkillers]

Well the first of the books ordered rocked up yesterday and am really enjoying reading through the Prehistoric Sounds series about this great era of music.............

Edited (& mostly written) by Ian McFarlane. A4 sized magazine devoted to coverage of Australian Independent Music created between 1976 and 1990. Tracing the histories of certain bands and record labels. Each is accompanied by a family tree, discography, critical appraisal and interview. Four issues published between 1994 and 1997.

http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/prodimg/ps10001.JPG

Prehistoric Sounds - Aussie Indie Music 1976-1989 - Vol. 1 Issue 1 1994

RECORD LABEL - Au Go Go Records, ARTIST PROFILES - Lipstick Killers, Models, Psycho Surgeons, Saints, Thought Criminals, INTERVIEWS - Ed Kuepper, Mark Taylor, Sean Kelly, FAMILY TREES - Models, DISCOGRAPHIES - Au Go Go Records, Lipstick Killers, Models, Psycho Surgeons, Saints, Thought Criminals, LIVE RVEIEWS - Deniz Tek, Powder Monkeys, RECORD REVIEWS - Birthday Party CD box set, Celibate Rifles "Spaceman In A Satin Suit" CD, Deniz Tek "Outside" dbl CD, Holocene "Flying" CD EP, Holocene "Pop Astronauts" CD, Magic Dirt "Signs Of Satanic Youth" dbl 7", Powder Monkeys "Smashed On A Knee" CD, Powderfinger "Transfusion" CD EP, Sunset Strip "Nothing Lost Nothing Gained" CD EP.

http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/prodimg/ps20001.JPG

Prehistoric Sounds - Aussie Indie Music 1976-1990 - Vol 1. Issue 2 1995

RECORD LABEL - Citadel Records, ARTIST PROFILES - Birthday Party, Laughing Clowns, Scientists, INTERVIEWS - Ed Kuepper, Kim Salmon, Rowland S. Howard, FAMILY TREES - Scientists, DISCOGRAPHIES - Birthday Party, Citadel Records, Laughing Clowns, Scientists, OTHER - Australian 60's revival (1980-90), LIVE REVIEW - Nick Cave & Bad Seeds.

http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/prodimg/ps30001.JPG

Prehistoric Sounds - Aussie Indie Music 1976-1990 - Vol 1. Issue 3 1996

ARTIST PROFILES - Deniz Tek, Fun Things, Hitmen, New Christs, New Race, Radio Birdman, Visitors, INTERVIEWS - Brad Shepherd, Deniz Tek, Rob Younger, FAMILY TREES - New Christs, DISCOGRAPHIES - Deniz Tek, New Christs, New Race, Radio Birdman, Visitors, LIVE REVIEWS - Powder Monkeys, Radio Birdman, Wayne Kramer, CD REVIEWS - Alchemist "Lunasphere" CD, Bo-Weevils "Burn" CD, Charlie Owen & Joel Silbersher "Tendrils" CD, Saints "Most Primitive Band In The World" CD, Shihad "Killjoy" CD, Tumbleweed "Galactaphonic" CD.

http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/prodimg/ps40001.JPG

Prehistoric Sounds - Aussie Indie Music 1976-1990 - Vol 1. Issue 4 1996

RECORD LABEL - Greasy Pop, ARTIST PROFILES - Beasts Of Bourbon, Died Pretty, Moodists, INTERVIEWS - Brett Myers & Ron Peno, Dave Graney & Clare Moore, Tex Perkins, DISCOGRAPHIES - Beasts Of Bourbon, Died Pretty, Greasy Pop Records, Moodists, OTHER - overview of Aussie punk 1976-83, CD REVIEWS - Blues Hangover "Roadrunner" CD, Bo-Weevils "Trapped In The Garage" CD, Breadmakers "Cool !" CD, Deniz Tek "Le Bonne Route" CD, Go-Betweens 6 CD re-issue, Hanging Tree s/t CD, Magic Dirt "Friends In Danger" CD, Mumbo Jumbo "Post Hypnotic Suggestion" CD, Pete Wells "Go On Call The Cops" CD, Rebecca's Empire "Way Of All Things" CD, Robert Forster "Warm Nights" CD.

http://www.ozmusicbooks.com/prodimg/ruitcoc0001.JPG

Underground In The City Of Churches - Adelaide Bands On Greasy Pop

Written by Tim Kelton and published (as an A4 sized book) by Wakefield Press in 1986. This overviews the careers of four bands on Adelaide label Greasy Pop Records - Exploding White Mice, July 14th, Screaming Believers and Spikes - along with brief mentions of associated bands.

The interviews encapsulate an alternative account of rock 'n roll history in South Australia - not the sanitised pop but rather the sometimes incetuous underground of late nights, loud guitars, beat-up cars, going out of Friday nights and coming home Saturday morning - the whole sub-cultural effect: the fashion, the moves, the talk....................

As well as a great pic of Alf from his days in The Spell - as LL mentioned 'nice school blazer'


Highly recommended for anyone interested in looking back at this great time in Australian music.



A quick interview with Ian List again courtesy of NKVD records wbesite............

Ian List / Dagoes / Spikes / UV's

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(This article is based on an interviewwith Ian in the summer and fall of 1997. Thanks to Ian for putting a lot more work into this than he probably ever expected to do...)

Ian List’s career has been one of the better kept secrets of Australian rock and roll. Perhaps it's because he comes from Adelaide rather than Melbourne or Sydney, or perhaps his style of rock and roll was a little too intelligent for the average mosher. Whatever the reason, there aren’t that many people out there who recognize how good most of the records he has played on actually are. From his early days with the Dagoes, through the Assassins, Spikes and UVs, it seems that Ian was always in a band that made music with a special edge to it.

The one thing all these bands have in common is that none of them sound like they are influenced much by Radio Birdman. Instead, there’s the obvious touch of Velvet’s influence (after all, what’s UVs other than VUs backwards?), but then there’s a closer sound to something like the Liverpool sound from the early 80s....Echo & the Bunnymen, Wah!, Teardrop Explodes, and that sort of thing, except that Ian List’s bands have tended to rock harder than those groups. But when Ian talks about his influences, it’s a little surprising…there’s a lot more diversity in the music he’s cut his teeth on than might be expected.

"The first album I bought was Bowie's Aladin Sane when it came out in '73", he says. " I was 12 then. Being an English migrant to Australia I tended to grow up with British kids and there was always a new friend to be made who was fresh off the boat. I started a record collection of Slade, T.Rex. Bowie, Gary Glitter, Roxy Music and the like. I had a choice of Gary Glitter, Slade and the Jackson 5 as to be my first concert, and unfortunately I chose Gazza. (It was **** if I remember rightly as he had a sore throat and only sang half the songs). I then got into Lou Reed. I bought Rock'n'Roll Animal when it came out and I have been a fan ever since. I almost immediately rushed out and hunted down his back catalogue and discovered the fantastic Velvet Underground. I always looked forward with baited breath for the new Bowie or Reed album to come out. I was lucky to be old enough to enjoy the punk thing in '77 and saw Birdman, the Saints, etc. Those were good days. I am an avid record collector, and I have a large and varied collection. The American stuff I dug was a lot of the 60's garage and psychedelia, and I really like Krautrock like Amon Duul and Agitation Free. A large amount of my collection is taken up with Iggy Pop and Stooges material. Though I never tried to imitate that sound I love the Detroit style of rock (MC5, Stooges, etc). I have worked in the music industry for 7 years, so I am open to a lot of weird stuff. Progressive '70's too has some wonderful moments. If my stuff did sound like Echo and the Bunnymen or Wah! it was unintentional even though I reckon Echo had a few terrific albums."

Ian’s first band that anyone is likely to have heard of was the Dagoes. He got into them rather late, as the band had been a regular on the Adelaide scene for several years and was actually pretty much a spent force by the time he joined. But as with most musicians, he also had some earlier efforts that were never recorded but which served as an apprenticeship to better things.

"I got an electric guitar around the age of 15", says Ian. "I used to practice by jamming along with lp's on the stereo. My first band was in 1977 after I just left high school and we were called No Action. We were pretty crappy and did a lot of Buzz****s, Sex Pistols and other punk covers. We played 3 gigs, one at my old school at a lunch time thing. This was to 200 kids and we thought we were **** hot. The next was supporting Lemme Caution (an art/punk band), at the Maid Of Auckland Hotel. There was no one in the room when we were on and I think it was during our rendition of "The Banana Split Song" by The Dickies that the owner of the pub pulled the plug on us. Our last performance was at a rugby club in Elizabeth supporting some heavy rock band called Mountain from Western Australia. It was packed and I think we lasted 5 songs before the DJ told us to get off (through the PA). I played pretty limited bass and guitar with these guys and our line up also consisted of a 12 year old drummer, a singer named Rip Savage (who went on to Gun Control, Funhouse and Mushroom Planet) and Tim O'Connor who made it with Frente- he wrote a couple of world wide hits with them). "

"So after this debacle we drifted apart and I started to go see Adelaide bands live. I used to go and watch The Accountants and The Dagoes playing the dives around town. One day there was an advert in the paper for singer wanted. I went for the job, even though I'd never sung before. I had more front in those days than a shop window. It happened to be Doug Thomas who'd put the ad in the paper. The audition was in Doug's front room, and the band consisted of Doug on guitar, The Turk on drums and Otis on bass. These 3 were from the Dagoes, who had just split up. We did a few numbers and I got the gig. I think Alf Omega from The Spell also went for it. Anyway, we rehearsed a few times, and then The Dagoes went in the studio one night to record the single "We Sell Soul". It was to be a posthumous release. They liked being back together again I guess, as our little band folded straight away and they reformed and asked me to play bass. (Otis went bush to teach.) I was a pretty **** house bass player and really I was just a beginner, but they didn't care/mind/know any different as they were hopeless too- and we carried on. It was wild being in "The Adelaide Punk Scene" all of a sudden."

Although they seem fairly mild now, the Dagoes were somewhat of a phenomenon in their day. In 1978 they took the fairly novel approach of releasing an independent cassette along with the Accountants and the U-Bombs. You can still hear them on the Supreme CD, which compiles their best tracks. Their singer sounds a lot like the Talking Heads’ David Byrne, or maybe nearer the mark would be the Cars Rik Ocasek. The band used a mix of guitars and synthesizers in the finest early 80s new wave pop tradition. But you can get a taste for why the locals might have thought them a bit wilder when you hear the live takes of "Vatican Stomp" and "Blood On My Face" at the end of Supreme; the guitars are cranked up and the band attacks hard. But then again, these tracks were recorded at a reunion gig ten years later, and Ian is playing lead guitar instead of bass.

The Dagoes were popular enough to sell 600 copies of "We Sell Soul" (a Roky Erikson cover) in Adelaide alone. That single was one of the foundations of the great Adelaide label Greasy Pop Records, which was run by Doug Thomas. Doug’s name will be a recurring thread in this story, as he played with Ian in the Dagoes, Assassins and Spikes. Doug once said in a Noise For Heroes interview that every song Ian List ever wrote had a sense of melody that made him want to come back and listen to it again and again, so it’s clear why he spent so much time working with Ian.

In the big picture, the Dagoes were a minor milestone in Ian’s fortunes. They propelled him into the middle currents of Adelaide’s underground scene, but his contributions as bassist weren’t that great; he plays on about half of the material on Supreme, which is littered with credits to a zillion different members, often with names as identifiable as "Dean Martin". Ian is hidden behind the stage name Lou Ouiji.

"The Dagoes were always on the outer and were loved by many and equally hated too", says Ian. "We had an American sound and did covers by Johnathan Richman, New York Dolls and the like. The other bands followed the British line. I think there was a bit of jealousy around too because the Dagoes pulled large crowds to what usually was a shambolic effort from a band that could hardly play and keep a song together live. Jeff (the Turk) was a crap drummer and the rest of us were pretty basic muso's. We did ballads too like "10 Years On" that were out of line with the other bands who relied on power songs for an hour. The Dagoes main strength though was **** (Richard Cant) the singer. **** was a great frontman with a huge ego and mouth to match. He is quite intelligent though and he could keep an audience entertained with his rants and tirades. He is now a lawyer in Sydney and has come out of the closet (funny that, in the Dag's he thought he was a one man woman ****ing sex machine).

"My first show with them was at the St. Peter's Town Hall. The line up was us, The Bad Poets, The Brats, and The Accountants. I only came out of hospital that morning after an appendix scare so I was in a lot of pain that night. Things happened pretty fast with the Dag's. We toured Melbourne and released a batch of singles (all now on that one CD). One memorable gig was supporting The Motels at Apollo Stadium. The Motels were a big act here at the time and had a couple of number one hits to tour on. The place was packed (about 4000) and we kept up our tradition by being absolutely ****in' awful! I was so nervous in the days leading up to the show that I'd developed an enormous sty on my eye. I went on stage wearing a pair of cheap sunglasses to hide it and fell over as I couldn’t see a thing. The Turk played a stinker too, and fell backwards off his drum stool mid song. What an embarrassing night all round! I've still got the review from the next day's newspaper. It hardly mentioned the Motels but had a glowing report on how bad we were."... a relief when the Dagoes finished their set.." Later we became a 3 guitar and bass band. James Tizard (later of the Spikes) joined. I went on to lead guitar. Bit of a joke really, 'cos at the time I could only play rhythm. I was spending all my spare time learning. I had also befriended The Accountants and soon was making plans to join a new band called "Fun Fun Fun" which was me on bass, ex-Accountants Dave Walker on vocals and Andy Steele on drums and ex- Recoil John Adams on guitar. The original name was the Art Vandals, and we played under that name for a few months. The future looked bright."

""Fun Fun Fun" were just that- a good fun bunch of guys to hang out with and a pretty cool band. We sounded like a cross between Japan and the New York Dolls! We recorded a few times in the studio and I still have cassette tapes of these sessions. We did a test pressing (2 copies only) of a 7" single. The "A" side was "Blackbyrd" and the flip was called "Bolshasheik". I never got my hands on a copy myself. We were pretty much hated by most of the other Adelaide bands. We got into wearing make up for live shows."

"After we split up John went to Sydney and got covered head to toe in tattoos and formed a rockabilly band with our roadie. The last time I saw him was on the 6.30 news on TV. A train had come off its tracks and plowed through a warehouse. John was living in a room out the back and the wreckage just missed him. He looked all shook up and was standing there in his pyjamas with this stupid quiff flopping in the breeze (it was in the middle of the night). Dave now kills chickens and delivers them in a big van (he has one of the best collections of Australian punk vinyl of anyone I know) Andy is a struggling artist (aren't they all?). Towards the end (and it brought about the end) we added a sax player - Nick Cross. He went on to be in the Models as a session player for them. We did some cool supports- The Birthday Party on a number of occasions, Laughing Clowns. Andy Steele is actually in the Birthday Party's "Nick the Stripper" video. Another fuzzy memory of the band was Dave's uncanny knack of attracting trouble where ever he went. He's a big guy too, but he's one of those blokes who always has people wanting to fight him. Not much fun to hang around at parties. We had a beauty of a saloon type dust up at a party one night. Dave's ex girlfriend was now living with Tracey Pew from the Birthday Party (these guys were at this party too) and so Dave was in one hell of a ****ty mood. I was standing outside on the back lawn (which was developing into a mudbath with the rain coming down and the amount of drunken people staggering around on it) when Dave pushed some guy’s head through the window. Of course all of this guy’s mates joined in and all of Dave's mates hopped in as well. The place was awash with drunken, mud and blood covered idiots beating the **** out of each other. We got out before the police arrived and made our way down to the hospital. I got 5 stitches in the knee from where someone had stabbed me with a chisel. Anyway, we eventually folded, citing boredom and the usual musical differences as the reason. I thought it was time to step out of the shadows and become a rock star. Hey, were all young and stupid!"

Meanwhile, on the Dagoes front, the band had changed singers and released another single ("Daunting"/"Blood On My Face") which didn’t do well, and the Dagoes split up again. Ian had originally played on the recordings for this, but when the Dagoes recruited a new bass player in Nigel Sweeting (credited as Gino Earthquake) they had him redo the bass track. In early 1982, Doug Thomas recruited Ian and The Turk from the Dagoes, and they recorded a rejected track Doug had written for the Dagoes called "Kill The Prime Minister" under the band name the Assassins. Money being tight, the single didn’t actually come out until 1983. It’s an odd mix, with the guitar way loud compared to the vocals. In Tim Kelton’s book Underground In The City Of Churches Doug Thomas is quoted as saying: "I didn’t like the way he (Ian) sang. It was Ian’s first studio attempt at vocals, and he really lacked confidence. We couldn’t afford to spend any more time, so we just gave him two vocal shots, picked the best one, and I was never really happy with it until the remix. To me the lyrics weren’t so important - the lyric that IS important is the very last line and there’s nothing else going on there - Australia needs this man dead - that’s all I had to say, that’s what the song’s about. Kill Malcom Fraser - he’s an arsehole."

"The Assassins was my first attempt singing and playing lead guitar", says Ian. "It was just Doug Thomas, myself and The Turk from the Dagoes on drums. Doug was furious with our Prime Minister (Malcom Fraser) at the time. You could compare him with a right wing kind of leader (George Bush/Reagan?). Anyway he had this song he wanted to record.. and there ya go. The b-side is just the a-side in reverse with the main context of the lyrics taken out. We never played live, and really that was the one and only time we did anything., though Doug and the Turk did record the Stooges "1969" a couple of years later which was released on some compilation and also on a 12" ep. We played "Kill The Prime Minister" maybe once or twice with the UV's, though I can't be sure."

In late 1982 the Dagoes were a spent force, and while the band was still dribbling on, Doug, Ian, James Tizard and Greg Swanborough were rehearsing on the side with what would become the Spikes. Ian had been playing in Fun Fun Fun, but they were going in a jazzy direction that Ian didn’t care much for. He had approached James with the idea of forming a Velvets-like band. The original name was the Falling Spikes. Before Doug Thomas had even joined, they had recorded a couple of songs, "Babies" (which in Kelton’s book Ian says was an old Dagoes number, but which he doesn’t recall having played in the Dagoes now), and "Burning Book", neither of which ever got released. They started playing live as the Spikes in June of 1983.

"When the Spikes kicked off I really wanted us to be like a lot of things", says Ian. "Because we all liked the Velvets we tried to get that feel. Didn’t really happen though. At the time we were listening to the Dream Syndicate, the Gun Club, and a lot of the garage bands around. Doug had a huge collection of 60's stuff we were listening to as well."

The first Spikes record was recorded in September of 1983, when they went in the studio and recorded three tracks. Two of these became the single "She’s Melting"/"The Theme From Acid Beach", while the third, a Nomads-like cover of "Ain’t No Friend Of Mine" was held back until their mini-lp. "She’s Melting" has a monster stop-start guitar riff and really kicks in hard. But let Ian tell the story of it: "The single "She's Melting" wasn’t our first recording as the Spikes. Greg, James and myself went into a small studio and laid down 3 tracks (editorial note: this is the "Babies" session he’s talking about now). I've got the tape somewhere, and I can't remember the titles of the tracks without digging it out. Anyway, I dropped some acid one night ( I've never touched the **** since though) and out of that came "She's Melting." The girl I was with during that experience was (to me at the time) doing just that. But the song was stolen,or at least the general bulk or pattern, from the Soft Boys song "Give It To The Soft Boys". Have a listen. Well at least I admit it.. There's a lot of song stealin' going on out there! The b-side was "Theme From Acid Beach", and was just that - an instrumental surf tune. James played some nice guitar on that one. We did a video for "She's Melting". We shot it in the cellar of Umbrella Music (Doug's record shop) and down at one of our beaches. We had some guy make a life size figure of a woman out of margarine, and we used a blow torch to melt it down at the beach. Greg was a video producer, so we did it for nix (and all our other videos were done for free too). The beach scenes were interesting. It was next to a home for the mentally ill and we had to clear away all these people with huge heads and dribble pouring from their mouths. They were fascinated by the whole thing. Eventually a few male nurses rounded them up and herded them back inside (for more shock treatment no doubt). This was around 1983 /84. We had started playing around the traps and we were getting a pretty good response."

By February of 1984 they were ready for a bigger recording session, and the result was the first Greasy Pop mini-lp, 6 Sharp Cuts. This record kicks off with the very Scientists-like "Flashback To Acid Beach"…kind of a surprise, since Ian said at the time that during the period he lived in England the Scientists were one of the worst bands he saw there. (When I pointed this out to him, Ian was surprised to find that he had been quoted as saying this…) After the garage diversion of "Ain’t No Friend Of Mine", it’s back to another moody, Scientists-like track in "Bloodmud". On the other side, "Scars and Angels" has a real first album Gang Of Four feel to it (Ian says he was going for a Green on Red sound), and "Hollywood" sounds a lot like Warsaw-era Joy Division (on this one he says he was trying for Dream Syndicate). A real grab bag of influences, for sure. And perhaps the biggest surprise, for a relatively new band out of Adelaide on a hitherto unheard of label, the record was picked up for release in America by the label Big Time, which although from all reports eventually swindled everyone they ever worked with did ensure that even today you can find a copy of 6 Sharp Cuts if you are willing to browse the used record bins now and then.

"In 1984 we had enough material to do a mini album", says Ian. "As the title suggests - 6 songs were recorded at Soundtrack, which at the time was a flash studio in Adelaide. The owner / engineer / interfering old git was a guy called Bob Allen. At the time I didn’t know, but since working in a record shop for a few years I've come across all these 45's and LP's by Adelaide psych and progressive bands from the 60's and 70's that were produced by Bob. The front cover was a photo of the Adelaide skyline during a fireworks display. When the LP came out in America, Big Time redesigned it and came up with a putrid green and pink patterned mess. They even put the wrong photo of the band on the back cover! I was in England at the time and instead of me was a photo of Mick Brown (more on this later). We recorded pretty much in one day, and usually the first run through was recorded and used. I did the vocals after. The only cover we did was "Ain't No Friend Of Mine" - a Sparkles tune which has been done by a few bands. Think we found it on a Rubbles 60's compilation or something. We didn't include "She's Melting" or" Theme From Acid Beach". That single sold out after a few months. We did about 300 copies. We pressed 500 copies of 6 Sharp Cuts and that sold out eventually. Big Time in America was giving us all this bull**** that it had sold 8000 copies over there (we never saw a cent!) and they were going to fly us over to support The Dream Syndicate on a tour. Of course this never eventuated. When I was in Chicago on holiday in 1988 I saw loads of the US pressing in a cut out bin for 99 cents. Quite depressing. If I had the room in my bags I would have bought them. The same goes for whenever I see an album or single of mine in a secondhand bin - I'm always tempted to buy it just to give the store owner the impression that the next one that comes over the counter is worth him buying and not him saying to a shop full of punters. "This band never sells.. I'll give ya 10 cents..".

"We played around town for the rest of the year. We only have a population in Adelaide of 1 million, and after a while you see the same faces week in week out at your gigs. It's hard to build up a crowd after a certain point. Being English and getting sick to death of my day job (painter & decorator) I decided to bugger off to England and Europe for a year or so. The Spikes went into limbo - or so I thought as I took my seat on the plane! London here I come...what adventures await me next?

"I went to the UK in '84 mainly as a traveling holiday. I stopped in Japan for a month on the way there and a month on the way back. I didn’t really try to form a band while I was there. I was having a great time and every few weeks I'd take off to some spot in Europe. I did audition for a few bands at the time though. One was The Waterboys. They advertised for a bass player. I'd never heard of them so I bought a couple of their albums to get familiar with their sound and I hired a bass. They were nice guys at the audition, but were "big time" compared to what I'd been used to. They were auditioning about 100 people for the job and they were going to do a world tour or something supporting U2. When I told them I didn’t know any of their songs we just jammed a few Lou Reed numbers for half an hour and that was it. Mike Scott (the singer) was a nice guy. He rang me and said they'd found someone else, which was fair enough. Good fun though."

"I also made an appointment for an audition as singer for Black Sabbath but I chickened out and never showed. The NME and other music papers were full of vacancies for pretty cool jobs in bands, but I wasn’t really serious enough to bother too much and I had a return trip ticket back to Aussie anyway. I saw The Nomads in a dive in Hammersmith and was blown away. There was about 20 people there. I thought their whole attitude and sound was great. I made a mental note to use these qualities in the Spikes when I returned home in January 1985."

"I had a few letters from Doug and Greg while I was away and they had told me that the band was still going under the same name but with a slightly different line-up. Doug had released a single by The Purple Gang, and asked the singer Mick Brown to join and take over my position. James Tizard bailed when this happened so the bass was given to Jim Selene (Salamader Jim, and now Free Moving Curtis). They were doing a mixture of my songs and some of Mick's new ones. On my return I went to see them a couple of times and was not impressed into re-joining them. I just didn’t like the way Mick sang. They had recorded "A Bloody Mess" and I got in on the photo shoot for that and got my picture on the cover even though I had nothing to do with the song or recording. The had also done a video in my absence for "Bloodmud" which had a few shots from the "She's Melting" video of me in there and the rest was Mick miming to my words. I wasn't too happy with that. Also when 6 Sharp Cuts came out in the States the back photo of the band was the Selene/Brown line-up. ****ed off about that!"

The single "A Bloody Mess"/"The Meaning Of Life"/"Bang Shang A Lang" is not a high point for the Spikes. The A side drags on for six whole minutes and is enough to put anyone to sleep. The version of "The Meaning Of Life" on this single is pretty limp compared to the subsequent take with Ian singing on Colour In A Black Forest. And the last track is also unexceptional. Unfortunately for me, this was the first Spikes record I ever got, and it put me off to them for a long time until Doug Thomas finally cajoled me into giving Colour In A Black Forest a fair listen. Doug later admitted it was a mistake to keep the Spikes name with this new lineup, and I’m sure Ian would second that.



continued..........

[dreamkillers]

continued.......


"When Ian left the band it was cut off at a high point", said Doug in the interview for Underground In The City Of Churches. "6 Sharp Cuts was so quick and so good that it surprised us all how well we played in the studio. So Greg and James and myself found ourselves without a singer - a band that was in fine form. That was very frustrating, so we jumped at the opportunity of Mick fronting the band."

"When Ian got back in January, the Selene/Brown lineup had sort of jelled. We’d got our **** together, we’d gone to Sydney and Melbourne, we’d played heaps of gigs. We played in front of a big crowd at Memorial Drive. We supported Midnight Oil that time and that was very inspirational to us. We’d got Mick’s songs that later became "A Bloody Mess" and "The Meaning Of Life", one of mine. They were working, Mick was starting to write more, and I’d actually written three or four songs that were in the set at that time. Ian wasn’t sure whether he wanted to rejoin. We said, OK, let’s go as a five piece. That was the ideal. All the way along when Ian left he was saying, OK, when I come back we’ll start it again, and James was also there saying, sure, when Ian gets back let’s get the band off the ground again. But how the hell do we deal with Mick and Jim, with whom me and Greg had been playing for a year? They were there on the understanding from the start that OK, when Ian gets back we’re the Spikes again. I’d been in there saying, let’s see if we can slot Ian in as a five piece, ‘cos I really love what we’re doing, but Ian didn’t really want to do that; he wanted the Spikes back together again. ‘Cos it was Ian’s band, even though a lot of people may see it as mine. I don’t…Obviously the mistake was calling Swanborough, Thomas, Selene and Brown the Spikes, and "A Bloody Mess" should not have been released as the Spikes. So Ian was in and out and eventually rejoined. We went to Melbourne as a five piece band, played three gigs, came back to Adelaide, played two more and Ian said, **** this, and that was it, we were back to four of us. Ian, Greg and James eventually said OK, we’re going to re-form the band and we’d like you to be in as well. So it was obvious what I had to do; I had to rejoin those guys and say to Mick and Jim, hey, we’re reforming the original; see you later. Which was a **** of a thing to do. And sure enough, as soon as we got that band back together, we knew it. It was like we were meant to play together. The strange combination of four weirdos."

Here’s Ian’s perspective from today (1997): "The live scene was still pretty healthy in Adelaide at the time and the Spikes were playing quite regularly. Eventually I was coaxed on stage and I did a few numbers with them. So, after that I rejoined for a while. Mick and I shared the singing (which was weird) and we played around town for a while and did a tour to Melbourne. It was over there that I decided to get out on our return to Adelaide. Let's just say Mick and Jim's taste for the evil things that go with rock'n'roll were not to my liking. I told Doug I was quitting and I had a batch of new material I had penned overseas. I wanted James on bass, and so Doug and James quit too and we formed the Spikes. (HUH?) An easier way of doing things than kicking Jim and Mick out I suppose. The Spikes did benefit from Jim and Mick's involvement though. We became nastier and dirtier. So roll on the full length album Colour in a Black Forest."

In Underground In The City Of Churches he was a little bit harsher. When Tim Kelton asked what he thought of the Brown/Selene version of the band that he saw when he came back from the UK, he replied: "I thought they were horrible. I just couldn’t believe it, I thought they were just verging on heavy metal." Reflecting on what it was like after he rejoined, he said: "I was quite willing just to stand back and let Mick do the whole lot for all I cared, but he wasn’t willing to stand back and let me do the whole thing, so there was a bit of tension in the air always."

"Another thing that struck me, the songs are so long, when you’re standing in the crowd, and when I was playing them they always felt like they dragged ‘cos they were very long and dirgey. When I was overseas I saw the Nomads, and they were on for 35 minutes and they were full on; it was incredible. Song after song, which was great, and I loved it, so I want to try to go a bit more that way."

Kelton does a great job in pursuing all the actors in this little drama, so we might as well hear Mick Brown’s point of view: "The first six months we progressed quite a bit. We found a different direction to the old Spikes. I think the music was getting fairly noisy but we were starting to explore more variations in rhythm. When Ian came back, Doug said "Do you want to join in?" and he hummed and hahed and I said "Come back in, particularly if you’ve got a whole bag of songs to do", ‘cos at the time I had only a couple, not a lot of songs and Ian said that he had half a dozen or so. So he came back in and we started working on his new songs, and then he left about March, and after two weeks we talked him into joining again, then he left again - join, leave, join, leave - didn’t progress. I think there were problems with Ian with a 5 piece. I didn’t mind going back to almost being a guitar player and occasional singer and writing a few songs with the band and letting Ian take over the reins. But I don’t know if he believed that was the way I felt or something; he thought there was going to be difficulties there, I really don’t know. Jim and I live for it, it’s important to us."

In retrospect, the conclusion of an outsider from reading all this (and much more in Kelton’s book) was that these were two guys who just had a different picture of what they wanted a band to sound like, and there wasn’t any way they were going to be able to work it out together. This sort of thing happens all the time, and no reflection on the participants either. If you don’t believe passionately about what you’re trying to do, you should just get the hell out of music. And when you get people in a band who are passionate about different things, well, it ain’t always pretty.

But on to the Spikes masterwork. Colour In A Black Forest was their only full length lp. It was recorded in December of 1985 with the production/engineer team of Doug Thomas and Kim Horne. Says Doug: "I like the way Kim works. Like most engineers, he likes to fiddle around with his toys and get all the wondrous, huge sounds. I guess the main idea is to let him play with his stuff and then get on with it, say OK, Kim, that’s enough, now let’s do it. He’s very good with recording. But production’s bull**** anyway, production’s something we should never give credit for ‘cos I think the true meaning of production is arrangement, construction of songs and additives, overseeing the whole thing. The Spikes do that themselves."

"We made a pretty varied album. It goes from thrash and feedback to acoustic pop songs. Yet there’s that underlying grunge in there, I guess."

You have to remember that these words were spoken in 1986 at a time when Nirvana were far in the future and grunge meant little more than dirty sounding music with some fuzzy guitar work. Because Colour In A Black Forest sounds like nobody’s idea of grunge today. It’s filled with wonderful songs like the funky "River Of Love", the dramatic "Leningrad", and the eerie "Spy In My House", to name just a few. It’s a record of power and depth that’s as much a fresh new pleasure to hear the 50th play as the first.

"The picture on the front cover of Colour was taken in the Adelaide hills at an old stately home that had just burnt down in one of South Australia's worst bushfires in years. We recorded 3 tracks - "Spy In My House" / "Touched My Heart" and "The Meaning Of Life" in July of '85. "Spy.." was used on a compilation LP of Adelaide bands called An Oasis In A Desert Of Noise. We also did a video for this song. "Meaning Of Life" was originally done with Mick and Jim and was on the "Bloody Mess" ep. "Touched My Heart" was a stomper we did at the time as we had time up our sleeves in the studio. It's the Nomads' song "Touch My Hand" with different words! We recorded the rest of the album over 3 days in December. We used Kim Horne as the engineer. He's a Canadian living here and quite frankly a pain in the arse. We spent hours of wasted time and money arguing over ****y little things that he wanted us to do with the recording. He thought he was George Martin. Still, he's a good engineer and we eventually got him to do just that. "River Of Love" is the first track on the album. A funky little number and was released as a 7" single. We did a video for this one too. We had Vic Flierl playing keyboards on the album (from the Garden Path) "Spy In My House" is about my fiancee's (at the time) mother who was an interfering old bitch. The typical Mother-in-law thing. We re-recorded "She's Melting" and gave it a more noisy feel. "Katrina" is Doug's song about his wife (ex now) of the same name. "This Is Australia" is my words and Greg Sage of the Wipers music. It's taken from "Youth of America" and Greg, if you read this, APRA is trying to get in touch with you for your share of the royalties they are holding for you! "Pass Myself" is a cover of a great single I picked up in England by a band called the Third Eye. All in all I'm happy with the album. But, I would like to have changed a few things now in hindsight. I'm not too wrapped in some of my vocals. The Spikes always had this thing about the one take principle. But sometimes I think we'd have been better off taking more time with some of the songs. Still, I reckon the album is a good one. You can now get it on CD with 6 Sharp Cuts and just about everything The Spikes did on there. Bargain! "

Colour In A Black Forest was licensed for release in England by the small indie, Zinger Records. It didn’t make much of an impression on the empire, but about a year after the release of the album, when Ian was struck by the wanderlust again and appeared in London once more, his contact with Zinger head Paul Baylis proved handy, since he put together a new band, the UVs, with Baylis playing rhythm guitar under the name Llewellyn. Perhaps the strangest thing about the album that eventually resulted from this is to see the credits for the drummer…Dave Bunney, of the Exploding White Mice, another world class Adelaide band. But what’s he doing in England? Let’s give Ian a chance to explain.

"Greg Swanborough and I headed back to England in early 1987", says Ian. "As money is a prime object of living in London we both had to find work fast. I'm a painter by trade so I got work easily. Greg was a cameraman and he found it impossible to break into any work in that field over there, so he got a job at one pound an hour! as a barman in a ****ty little Irish pub in Tottenham. This was a contributing factor to his returning home within a year. Also he brought his girlfriend with him and she didn’t like it over there either. We put an ad in the NME for a guitarist and bass player. Our first applicant was Jack from an Adelaide band The Ists! He didn’t pan out and we didn’t bother with him. Then we got Dominic (guitar) and Jimmy Jazz (bass). If you've ever watched Oliver the movie about the Artful Dodger and his cronies-these two would have fitted in well. Both were from some no hoper punk band that had scammed a support with Siouxsie and the Banshees in Italy! They'd never played in England.! Both were lovable rogues. Anyway we rehearsed for ages and were lined up to play the Zap club in Brighton. This fell through as Greg decided he'd had enough and was going to travel Europe before heading back to Oz. Then Dominic left and we enlisted two of Jim's mates whose names escape me at the moment. We rehearsed again for ages. We played a gig in Camden Town supporting The Junior Manson Slags. Played **** if I remember rightly. England is bloody hard to play and survive as a band. You literally have to pay to play. Anyway, I was so disillusioned with the whole setup, I called it quits. I carried on working and holidaying all over the place and months turned to years...and so on. Paul Baylis was the owner of Zinger Records. He took on the release of the Spikes Colour LP in England. we became friends (and still am - he works as A&R man for BMG records in Sydney now). I had all these songs to record, so Paul and myself booked into a little 8 track studio in Brixton. It was under a railway arch, so every time a train went overhead we had to stop recording. Paul was in a band called I Can Crawl. Dave Bunney was in England on holiday and was staying with me, so this tied in nicely with the recording of "Mexican Earthshake" and "Machine Gun Love". These were put on the back burner for a while till I had more money to record. Neat little studio though-Kim Salmon and the Scientists were using it for rehearsals. Later on we went back there and did the rest of the album and used Paul's drummer Jan Wilga. We did no rehearsals for any of the album. Dave, Jan and Paul knew nothing of the songs till the day. I think we recorded and mixed the whole thing in a total of 3 days. We went back there one more time and had my friend Chris Bashford play guitar on Candlelight. (Chris was the drummer for punkers Chelsea at one stage). I was going to Sweden and Paul collared me asking about the artwork for the album. We had to decide then and there and I had to catch the boat in about 2 hours time. Thus the dodgy cover. It was a picture out of a book on orange crate art. Sheeesh.. Anyway, it came out with a fizz. Still, I reckon it's pretty good and has a lot of decent songs on it. Paul and Zinger was the Greasy Pop records of England. He sold **** all of all his releases. But his heart is in the right place. He made zip money doing Zinger over the years. Eventually he chucked it in and came to work for EMI initially in Australia."

"He did know a few people though and one was John Storey from Bucketful of Brains. I met John in a pub in Soho and did an interview with him over vast amounts of beer. The song "Summer of Love" appeared on the Bucketful flexi with the Lime Spiders (I think Bunney played on that one). Annoyingly Storey claimed to have lost the master tape when it was time to retrieve it so my only copy is a crappy flexi."

Considering how loosely constructed the band was, the Crayon Jungle lp really holds together amazingly well. It’s less varied than the Spikes records, and has more emphasis on buzzsaw rhythm guitar playing, but it still has a lot of depth to it. Ian’s confidence in his singing seems to be on the rise, since he’s mixed louder than ever before. It has an ace opening cut in "Dropping Bombs" (which we’ll hear more of later), another great one on the second side in "The Honeymooners" and in between a batch of more than satisfying tracks. It ends with a compelling, drumless track called "Fall In Love With You" that features some great reverb drenched guitar. Like the Spikes records, this one’s a grower that hooks another barb in you each time you play it. But there wasn’t much to hold Ian in England, and ultimately he headed back to Oz.

"By the end of 1988", says Ian, "I decided to return to Australia for six months with my fiancee (who was German) to see if she'd like living over there. We came back and after another trip back to England settled in Adelaide. I got Doug (Spikes), Chris Willard (Lizard Train), Dave Bunney and Jeff Stephens (Exploding White Mice) to play with me in the studio to do the 1989 ep. Doug liked Crayon Jungle but preferred a harder edge, so we did some of the songs again. After we decided to play as The UV'S. We played for about 6 months and it was going great. Loads of people at the gigs and I've got a couple of killer live tapes out of it. Dave Bunney and I had a serious falling out and the project folded. (we've since made up of course). Plus all the guys had their other bands which was first priority for them. But it was a great hot summer of hard rock'n'roll."

The UVs ’89 EP came out on Greasy Pop in 1989 and was shortly followed by a US single on Sympathy with 3 of the four cuts. It kicks off with a new version of "Dropping Bombs" that has a slightly harder drum sound, but is otherwise pretty comparable to the UK version. The other 3 tracks are new ones, and solid efforts, too. "Real World" is my fave of the others because of its tasty lead guitar bits. "Deepest Blue" starts out slow and ominous, then picks up to a threatening mid-tempo. The last track, "Gallilee", features what by now has become a typical Ian List trick, where the tune in mid course veers into a totally different key and feel, and then turns back. The production is great, and it leaves you a bit sad that there’s only four tracks. It wasn’t apparent at the time, but these would be the last tracks List would ever commit to record.

In early 1991 I went to Australia for vacation (my second time there) and came through Adelaide to try to see some of the bands I had been listening to for so long. Unfortunately, I was there mid week, and Adelaide isn’t big enough to support any nightlife other than on Friday and Saturday. So I met a lot of people who I’d always wanted to meet, including Doug and Ian, and had the (sort of) pleasure of sitting in at a rehearsal of a revived version of the Spikes. I recall that they were practicing above a storefront in a place where the windows were wide open onto the streets below, and I was amazed that they could get away with all the racket with no one calling the police, who would have arrived in force with guns drawn before all the band members even knew rehearsal was scheduled here in America. This was right at the time when the Gulf War was starting, and the Spikes new bass player somehow had determined that as an American, I was personally responsible for the US attack, so she gave me a load of **** about it. Quite uncomfortable, although I did enjoy listening to the band.

Here’s Ian’s account: "Come 1991 I decided to use The Spikes name again and get things going. Chris Willard and Shane Bloffwitch (from Lizard Train) were in and on drums we had Paul Sharmen. (a complete ******** ).We played a couple of parties and then that stopped as the Lizard Train were getting pretty busy at the time with touring, etc. So we got a girl in on bass named Sherri Goldsworthy. I remember you coming to one of our early rehearsals and getting into a bit of a heated argument with her over America's involvement in the Gulf War! You probably remember Paul - he was the idiot who spent all his spare time doing ****ty impressions. Anyway, this line up played around awhile and we eventually made it into the studios of Channel 2 to record the never released album Poke. The recording of this was a shambles. It's amazing what you find out in a studio when you're paying $100 an hour. Paul was a crap drummer who couldn't keep time and Sherri was a pretty basic bass player! Anyway, the engineer we used kept disappearing for up to an hour and we found out he was shooting up out the back somewhere. It was a mess. But we eventually left with master tapes to an LP. Whether I'll ever go back into a studio and clean it up myself or just use the songs again is something I don't know."

"At this point Greasy Pop was going down the proverbial gurgler. Doug's marriage was just about finished and he was having hassles with all the bands on the label. He just threw his hands in the air and said **** IT and left Adelaide and went and lived 3000 miles away in Perth. I miss Doug - he's a good friend and his life was changed / ruined by his love of music and belief in what he was doing. Not one ****ing band said thanks though or was there to help him out when he was financially destitute. At one stage I was playing bass for Contrapunctus - did about 5 gigs with them, but it wasn't really my thing so I left. Then I formed a band with a few friends who've never been in any bands of note and played for a year as Kill City. Yep, we did an hour of Stooges/Pop material. That was fun, but after a while I began to hate it as I've always loathed cover bands anyway. From '93 till now I've never been back on stage. My friend Paul Larson (ex Celibate Rifles) lives back here now and we've had a few jams - great drummer!. But in all honesty I don't miss the live scene at the moment. It's pretty good at the present time in Adelaide. Loads of pretty good bands playing. And Greasy Pop isn't needed anymore in a way as every man and his dog is releasing a CD.. A couple of Adelaide bands have had success with major labels - Mark of Cain / Superjesus / Sin Dog Jellyroll."

"I have got a small recording set up at home - a digital 8 track studio, and all the other gear to go with doing that kind of thing. I've recorded an album’s worth of stuff, and I've had about 14 of my songs used on the soundtrack to a TV series on cable revolving around sports. So I've not been too idle. And hey! I've got an 11 month old son who keeps me very busy - and has put a different slant on life. A great buzz that I get is when I hear one of my songs on the radio, or when I'm working in my shop and a punter buys one of my albums (not knowing who I am). It's cool too being a musician. The average Joe who has no idea about anything in the rock world is always asking these insane questions as if you know all the answers. And you could always say you did the same job as Jimi Hendrix or Jim Morrison. I've really been lucky in music, but I can't help thinking sometimes that if I wasn't living here would things have been different? Could I have really made it? But then again - did I really want to? Bit of a Freudian one for me to finish on folks. Hope it wasn't too boring and it's brought a little information into your lives! Thanks and peace."

So there you have it…the long and eventful rock and roll career of Ian List. Not one of the better known names of Australian rock on the worldwide scene, but not because he doesn’t deserve to be.



Hope your enjoying the read............still plenty more to come and still looking for plenty of other contributions.............:D

[AlfAndrews]

Amazing stuff, Dreamkillers. It's fascinating reading about people you know, sort of.

If you take another look at that picture of me in my school blazer, you'll notice a couple of familiar faces among the other members of The Spell ... Mick Brown and Jim Selene ... the same much-maligned Mick Brown and Jim Selene who later joined The Spikes.

A bit of news hot off the press ... this is the truth ... you heard this from someone who knows ... The Spell is re-forming to do a one-off reunion gig in Adelaide. An exact date and venue is yet to be set, but we're looking at April or May ... I'll be coming from Melbourne, Jim Selene from Sydney, Andre Poublon (alias R.Andy Polkinghorne ... the other half of Dr.Grouse) will be coming from Newcastle. Mick Brown and Viktor Muizulis are still based in Adelaide.

More news on this as things develop ... but I can tell you that the Alfster is already in training. I probably won't have my old school blazer ... it probably wouldn't fit me now anyway, even if I knew where it was (which I don't) ... but I can promise that this won't be some half-arsed reunion. This will be the real deal. The Spell, better than ever.

This will be the greatest reunion gig since the Sex Pistols' Filthy Lucre tour. But we won't be doing it for money. We're hoping to make it a free gig.

Beware, Adelaide ... The Spell is coming back.

P.S. I don't suppose Ian List will be there, going by his obvious dislike for Mick and Jim. Pity, though. Because he'll be missing something truly great.

And yes, I did audition for that band that Doug Thomas was trying to put together in between incarnations of the Dagoes. The one that Ian List went for. And I got rejected because I was a God-awful singer at the time. But a few things have changed in 23 years. Somewhere along the line I learned to sing. And although I'm carrying a bit of excess condition at this point in time, I will be cherry ripe for a first-up tilt that will leave the City of Churches speechless.

And that is a promise.

[dreamkillers]

Originally posted by AlfAndrews
Amazing stuff, Dreamkillers. It's fascinating reading about people you know, sort of.

If you take another look at that picture of me in my school blazer, you'll notice a couple of familiar faces among the other members of The Spell ... Mick Brown and Jim Selene ... the same much-maligned Mick Brown and Jim Selene who later joined The Spikes.

A bit of news hot off the press ... this is the truth ... you heard this from someone who knows ... The Spell is re-forming to do a one-off reunion gig in Adelaide. An exact date and venue is yet to be set, but we're looking at April or May ... I'll be coming from Melbourne, Jim Selene from Sydney, Andre Poublon (alias R.Andy Polkinghorne ... the other half of Dr.Grouse) will be coming from Newcastle. Mick Brown and Viktor Muizulis are still based in Adelaide.

More news on this as things develop ... but I can tell you that the Alfster is already in training. I probably won't have my old school blazer ... it probably wouldn't fit me now anyway, even if I knew where it was (which I don't) ... but I can promise that this won't be some half-arsed reunion. This will be the real deal. The Spell, better than ever.

This will be the greatest reunion gig since the Sex Pistols' Filthy Lucre tour. But we won't be doing it for money. We're hoping to make it a free gig.

Beware, Adelaide ... The Spell is coming back.

P.S. I don't suppose Ian List will be there, going by his obvious dislike for Mick and Jim. Pity, though. Because he'll be missing something truly great.

And yes, I did audition for that band that Doug Thomas was trying to put together in between incarnations of the Dagoes. The one that Ian List went for. And I got rejected because I was a God-awful singer at the time. But a few things have changed in 23 years. Somewhere along the line I learned to sing. And although I'm carrying a bit of excess condition at this point in time, I will be cherry ripe for a first-up tilt that will leave the City of Churches speechless.

And that is a promise.

Thanks Alf.......as I've said previously I've enjoyed adding my entries on this thread as it's been a great learning experience for me. I was a little too young to see a lot of these bands mentioned in action during the 70's and 80's but have always been fascinated by the live music scene in Adelaide and Australia in general.........

It was much better music than most of the crap played on commercial radio during these times and I wish I knew more about these bands at the time but I didn't really start going out and seeing bands regularly until 1984/1985 and even then it took a little while to discover some of our better bands going around at the time.

Good luck with the Adelaide gig.....sounds like it will be a blast


I was going to add to the thread with my first installment of The Saints this weekend but at the moment can't be bothered with all the **** flying about on the message boards so it can wait for a week or two..........

I'll just sit back and keep reading through the books I've recently purchased before returning to continue the thread - hopefully it won't go missing like the great Midnight Oil thread we had...........

Cheers

DK

[dreamkillers]

The Spell is re-forming to do a one-off reunion gig in Adelaide. An exact date and venue is yet to be set, but we're looking at April or May ... I'll be coming from Melbourne, Jim Selene from Sydney, Andre Poublon (alias R.Andy Polkinghorne ... the other half of Dr.Grouse) will be coming from Newcastle. Mick Brown and Viktor Muizulis are still based in Adelaide.

This will be the greatest reunion gig since the Sex Pistols' Filthy Lucre tour. But we won't be doing it for money. We're hoping to make it a free gig.

Beware, Adelaide ... The Spell is coming back.

I will be cherry ripe for a first-up tilt that will leave the City of Churches speechless.

And that is a promise.


So Alf it's about time for an update on how the show/s went..........as well as anyone else that would like to contribute to the thread about some of the great bands that have influenced music in this country without corporate help.

[goatsby]

[QUOTE=Leaping Lindner]I was really pleased to see I like all that list but would like to add "True Love" by the Marching Girls as an OZ garage classic of the 80's.


They were originally The Scavangers from New Zealand they changed their name to the Marching Girls in Australia.

I love their song Mysterex it was covered by the D4 but the origianl version is so much better , I must get the AK 79 comp disc for that alone

[goatsby]

Ah memories

ADVERTS
One Chord Wonders

BLONDIE

I'm Always Touched By Your Presence Dear/Poets
Union City

BUZZ****S
Lipstick
What do I get

CHELSEA
War across the nation
THE CLASH
White man In Hammersmith palais
Heaps of others
Mick Jones is a QPR man

ELVIS COSTELLO
Olivers Army.

DEAD BOYS
Tell Me cover of RS as it should be done

EDDIE AND THE HOT RODS
Do Anything You Wanna Do/Schoolgirl Love (Island)
THE FLESHTONES
American Beat/Critical List (Red Star)
agree.

GANG OF FOUR
esscence Rare

GENERATION X
Your Generation/Day By Day (Chrysalis)
Ready Steady Go/No No No (Chrysalis)
Loved Generation X but hate Billy Idol ****fest 5that came later

RICHARD HELL AND THE VOIDOIDS
Blank Generation/Love Comes In Spurts (Sire)
.
THE JAM
In The City/Takin' My Love (Polydor)
This is the modern world

THE MEMBERS

Sound Of The Suburbs/Handling The Big Jets (Virgin)

THE ONLY ONES

Another Girl Another Planet/Special View (CBS)

RADIO BIRDMAN
Burned My Eye/I-94/Snake/Smith And Wesson Blues (Trafalgar)
Aloha Steve And Danno/Anglo Girl Desire (Trafalgar)


RADIO STARS
Dirty Pictures

RAMONES
Blitzgrieg Bop.
THE RECORDS
Starry Eyes/Paint Her Face (Virgin)
.
"We need change and we need it fast
before rocks just part of the past
cos lately it all sounds the same to me wooahh"

J Ramone.

[goatsby]

Just dug up
Housebreaking by the Serious Young Insects
and
Boys by the Boys casettes
just about to adjourn to the shed to see if The Boys "weoh, Weoh, Weoh" stands the 25 year test LOL

[Captain Sensible]

Just dug up
Housebreaking by the Serious Young Insects
and
Boys by the Boys casettes
just about to adjourn to the shed to see if The Boys "weoh, Weoh, Weoh" stands the 25 year test LOL




Ive got that album too. The Boys song was called "When you're lonely" wasnt it?


I've got a single by Serious Young Insects as well but I think its called 'Be Patient.

[rick James]

http://www.tiptonium.com/videogames/favorites/Lair%20of%20the%20Bemani%20Bastards_files/too_punk.png

[GhostofJimJess]

I've got a single by Serious Young Insects as well but I think its called 'Be Patient.

Weren't they the precursor to Boom Crash Opera, Local? I know that Richie Pleasance played with them, and he was the engine room of BCO.

[Leaping Lindner]

Weren't they the precursor to Boom Crash Opera, Local? I know that Richie Pleasance played with them, and he was the engine room of BCO.

Spot on there Ghost. I'm stretching the memory a bit but I seem to remember SYI did a kick arse version of "Music to watch girls by" live, but can't remember for sure if they ever recorded it.

[Leaping Lindner]

Ive got that album too. The Boys song was called "When you're lonely" wasnt it?


I've got a single by Serious Young Insects as well but I think its called 'Be Patient.

I remember "When your lonely" and "Hurt me babe" getting a fair bit of airplay. Also the LP won the unofficial award for Album cover of the 80'S :D ;)
According to legend the main songwriter and guitarist of The Boys considered himself to be so ugly he wouldn't appear live with the band and would only work in the studio.:eek: