How do we get our next flag

[Dunn - Well Done]

We were meant to be top 4 in 2010, i know its still along way away but our boys dont look like their anywhere near that now. We have had several seasons to rebuild since our dominance in 2000-01. Yet we havnt seemed to make any steps forward or produce quality footballers.

I cant see us winning a flag for along time with the list we have, i think the dons need to rebuild again and continue to just play youth even if we lose games.

On our list which players can you see being apart of our next premiership tilt??
Hurley
Zaharakis
D.Myers
Reimers
Gumbleton
Houli
Ryder
Neagle
Prismall
Stanton

thats about it, even some of them are questionable. Winderlich, Davey and Jetta could also be considered but they need to go to another level in their games.

Im just sick of essendon being shit for such a long time, we need to develop players and create stars of the future. We need to look and see who will be our Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Ottens, Scarlett, Chapman ect type players.

Im really disappointed with our list the only good players on it at the moment who i rate are Stanton and Lovett (thank god we didnt give him up, hes possiby our best midfielder).

I just want to know don fans thoughts about when, how and what we can do to win our next flag. Which players should we keep and which players should go. How long do we give knights and is our development of players the worst of any clubs?:mad:

[RM_3]

On our list which players can you see being apart of our next premiership tilt??
Hurley
Zaharakis
D.Myers
Reimers
Gumbleton
Houli
Ryder
Neagle
Prismall
Stanton

thats about it, even some of them are questionable. Winderlich, Davey and Jetta could also be considered but they need to go to another level in their games.



Add Watson in that list, his only 23.

Oh and whats with Gumbleton being in that list? he hasn't shown anything thus far.

Im just sick of essendon being shit for such a long time, we need to develop players and create stars of the future.

I don't think its that easy.

[jetta2davey]

We were meant to be top 4 in 2010, i know its still along way away but our boys dont look like their anywhere near that now. We have had several seasons to rebuild since our dominance in 2000-01. Yet we havnt seemed to make any steps forward or produce quality footballers.

I cant see us winning a flag for along time with the list we have, i think the dons need to rebuild again and continue to just play youth even if we lose games.

On our list which players can you see being apart of our next premiership tilt??
Hurley
Zaharakis
D.Myers
Reimers
Gumbleton
Houli
Ryder
Neagle
Prismall
Stanton

thats about it, even some of them are questionable. Winderlich, Davey and Jetta could also be considered but they need to go to another level in their games.

Im just sick of essendon being shit for such a long time, we need to develop players and create stars of the future. We need to look and see who will be our Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Ottens, Scarlett, Chapman ect type players.

Im really disappointed with our list the only good players on it at the moment who i rate are Stanton and Lovett (thank god we didnt give him up, hes possiby our best midfielder).

I just want to know don fans thoughts about when, how and what we can do to win our next flag. Which players should we keep and which players should go. How long do we give knights and is our development of players the worst of any clubs?:mad:

Hang on...how come Jetta, Winders and davey need to lift to another level to be part of the next premiership team, when you have named Gumbleton, Zakka and Hurley (although he was so good last week) as a definite part of that team. The former three have shown a lot more than the latter three.

I agree that it's taking a bit longer than what i had hoped, but we just have to put faith in knights, even though i'm not his biggest fan..

[Dunn - Well Done]

I can see Hurley holding down full back and i see potential in him as a number 5 draft pick and also a domiant 18's carnival 2 years in a row. I think he has the qualities to hold down full back when we are looking at a premiership. With Zakka i picked him because he is young, but i might be jumping the gun after all most of our draft picks turn to rabble. He could be hitting his prmie 23-25 when we have a chance of our next flag. Gumbleton a number 2 draft pick who we know can play and has that ahtletic type body needed for CHF.

I shouldve added Winderlich to that list, i can see him going to elite if only he can stay on the park. As for Davey and Jetta sure they could play FP and have their roles. I want to see Jetta become a midfielder or running HBF?? thoughts on that.

Watson is nowhere near a good enough player. We have to look and see who will become our Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Bateman type players and develop them.

Our drafting has killed us

[warney7]

We need our players to be injury free.

Also, our rebuilding started last year....Sheedy wasted 05-07 by attempting renovations on an unsound structure.

[lamaros]

Zaharakis
Reimers
Gumbleton
Houli
Neagle

You have the above players in your list, but don't include Davey? Davey has done more then them all combined for Essendon.

The below are players I think are clear AFL quality and are all 26 or under.

Davey
Gumbleton
Hurley
Lonergan
Lovett
McPhee
Myers
Pears
Prismall
Ryder
Stanton
Watson
Welsh

When you add that to older players who still have a few years in them.

Hille
McVeigh

And the guys that could be anything.

Houli
Dempsey
Reimers
Zaharakis
Winders
Neagle
Monfries
Laycock
Jetta
Bellchambers

You can see that we have a good group of players around on which to build, not needing some kind of drastic overhaul.

[JimmyHird]

Need to keep our kids as injury free as possible and maximum game time into them. Couple that with playing our cards right over the next couple of seasons in the drafts with GC coming in and we will make our way up the table - realistically challenging for a flag in 2011/2012.

[thebigboy]

We need to spent some serious money on our recruiting staff.

Personally, I would like to see us try to get Pelchen across from Hawthorn. Might be a case of wishful thinking but the Hawthorn model from 3-4 years ago is something that we should be trying to follow.

Unfortunatly, we won't have access to the same quality of picks that they had due to the Gold Coast and W.Sydney.

[jetta2davey]

I can see Hurley holding down full back and i see potential in him as a number 5 draft pick and also a domiant 18's carnival 2 years in a row. I think he has the qualities to hold down full back when we are looking at a premiership. With Zakka i picked him because he is young, but i might be jumping the gun after all most of our draft picks turn to rabble. He could be hitting his prmie 23-25 when we have a chance of our next flag. Gumbleton a number 2 draft pick who we know can play and has that ahtletic type body needed for CHF.

I shouldve added Winderlich to that list, i can see him going to elite if only he can stay on the park. As for Davey and Jetta sure they could play FP and have their roles. I want to see Jetta become a midfielder or running HBF?? thoughts on that.

Watson is nowhere near a good enough player. We have to look and see who will become our Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Mitchell, Hodge, Lewis, Bateman type players and develop them.

Our drafting has killed us

Yeah i like that, once he starts getting his hands on the ball 15+ times in a match he will become a very good player.

but......in my honest opinion watson>>lewis, bateman, they are both very good players, but they look better than they are because they play in a great side.

Watson and Lovett are our two best midfielders.

[KaaN10]

Our rebuilding phase has gone wrong. Too much injurys the hold up.

[chadleverington]

Our rebuilding phase has gone wrong. Too much injurys the hold up.

It has been constant hasn't it. It makes me think that is can't be just bad luck for it to keep happening for so long?

[the fairytales complete]

Our rebuilding phase has gone wrong. Too much injurys the hold up.
Problem is, how do you start rebuilding when all the best talent is going to be off limits with GC taking them all.Timing just couldnt be worse and its a real worry.

[upanddown]

We will be back up in no time soon

[Dunn - Well Done]

anyone thinking we are a chance to win a flag in 2011 or 2012 are absolutly dreaming, we wont touch a flag for another 6-8 years. By that meaning have a chance in another 6-8 years. We dont have any premiership quality players. By this i mean not many.

Watson is usless, your so bias saying he is better than Bateman and Lewis. They are super quality mids.

Gold Coast, Carlton and Hawthorn will own the next 4-5 years.

[james_omahoney]

We were meant to be top 4 in 2010, i know its still along way away but our boys dont look like their anywhere near that now. We have had several seasons to rebuild since our dominance in 2000-01. Yet we havnt seemed to make any steps forward or produce quality footballers.

I cant see us winning a flag for along time with the list we have, i think the dons need to rebuild again and continue to just play youth even if we lose games.

On our list which players can you see being apart of our next premiership tilt??
Hurley
Zaharakis
D.Myers
Reimers
Gumbleton
Houli
Ryder
Neagle
Prismall
Stanton

thats about it, even some of them are questionable. Winderlich, Davey and Jetta could also be considered but they need to go to another level in their games.

Im just sick of essendon being shit for such a long time, we need to develop players and create stars of the future. We need to look and see who will be our Ablett, Bartel, Corey, Ling, Ottens, Scarlett, Chapman ect type players.

Im really disappointed with our list the only good players on it at the moment who i rate are Stanton and Lovett (thank god we didnt give him up, hes possiby our best midfielder).

I just want to know don fans thoughts about when, how and what we can do to win our next flag. Which players should we keep and which players should go. How long do we give knights and is our development of players the worst of any clubs?:mad:

It's all about our injuries/availabilities. I still maintain that we would have been 7th or 8th last year without our injury run. I'm not going to comment on how to win the next flag, but I think with a consistently full playing list then we're a finals team, and that's where we need to be before talking flags.

[BringBackCransberg]

We have had several seasons to rebuild since our dominance in 2000-01.

A bunch of those seasons were under Sheedy, and many have come round to the fact that, Essendon legend though he is, he held up our rebuilding for years. This may have had to do with the board pressuring him to make finals instead of doing the modern rebuild (gossip?), but at any rate, Knights came in and got the (potential) premiership ball rolling. And Knights hasn't been here long.

[...]

How long do we give knights and is our development of players the worst of any clubs?:mad:

Give Knights till the end of 2010. Not to win a premiership, but to see if his plan is working. I don't know much about the player development at other clubs, but I'm pretty damn excited about the way things are going at the EFC. Stanton, Watson, Monfries have a massive amount of games between them. The next tier (down) -- guys like Lonergan, Houli, Reimers, Prismall, Jetta -- are showing all the right signs for now, and the tier below that --Myers, Hurley, Zaka-- well, if you're not excited by them, you're stone. That kind layered thing thing, to a person like me (without much football knowledge) points to pretty good list development.


At any rate, it's Essendon. Essendon will get around to winning a premiership sooner rather than later. It's understandable you're not used to dry spells -- neither am I -- but keep the faith!

[GuzzLG]

Draft Thomas, Alex and William Hird.

[Slattery_20]

We need to spent some serious money on our recruiting staff.

Personally, I would like to see us try to get Pelchen across from Hawthorn. Might be a case of wishful thinking but the Hawthorn model from 3-4 years ago is something that we should be trying to follow.

Unfortunatly, we won't have access to the same quality of picks that they had due to the Gold Coast and W.Sydney.
Who's Pelchen picked up?

The bloke before him got Buddy, Roughead, Lewis, Sewell, Mitchell, Hodge. If anyone, we should chase that bloke.

But I think we should give the new dept with Keane a go first. It's been going only 1 year in it's new expanded form. Surely you knew this?

[LeeARM]

it seems like we have a lot of young talent, if we use this years draft well we shouldn't need to worry about 2010/2011 drafts too much. i feel like knights its taking the right steps towards getting our next flag so we just need to keep training up our youngsters and maybe in the future get some good trades. of course, we'll need to stop getting injured so much.

right now all we can do is hope for the best.

[hateitorlovett13]

anyone thinking we are a chance to win a flag in 2011 or 2012 are absolutly dreaming, we wont touch a flag for another 6-8 years. By that meaning have a chance in another 6-8 years. We dont have any premiership quality players. By this i mean not many.

Watson is usless, your so bias saying he is better than Bateman and Lewis. They are super quality mids.

Gold Coast, Carlton and Hawthorn will own the next 4-5 years.

And your a ****ing douchebag for saying hes useless. He is our only player who consistently wins 25+ hard possessions a game, runs all day and never stops trying. Disposal is not great, but has improved a lot and will undoubtedly continue to do so.

You, sir, are a useless supporter.

[Ben the Gooner]

Watson is usless, your so bias saying he is better than Bateman and Lewis. They are super quality mids.

And this is the point where I start ignoring this thread.

[Kong]

anyone thinking we are a chance to win a flag in 2011 or 2012 are absolutly dreaming, we wont touch a flag for another 6-8 years. By that meaning have a chance in another 6-8 years. We dont have any premiership quality players. By this i mean not manyWhile I think we're still 4-5 years off challenging, it's unfair to say we have barely any 'premiership quality' players, considering most of our playing list is either too young or hasn't been on the park enough to make a judgement.
We know Hille, McVeigh, Welsh, Davey, Lonergan, and Lovett are. I believe Winderlich, Stanton, Watson, Reimers, Ryder and Monfries & Stanton will be.
The jury's still out on Dempsey, Gumbleton, Atkinson, Laycock, Houli, Neagle, Hocking, Jetta, Prismall, and Slattery.
Then there's the promise of our latest batch including Zaharakis, Still, T. Slattery, Pears, Myers, Hurley, Hooker, Daniher, Bellchambers.

I don't think that's overly optimistic, or "bias" as you put it (for the record, it's "biased", unless you're somebody posessing "bias"). I think that's a pretty fair assessment, so I disagree with you there.

Watson is usless, your so bias saying he is better than Bateman and Lewis. They are super quality mids.Considering at stages last year he was one of the leading clearance players in the league, and along with Hille, was statistically the best Ruck-Rover combination, I again, disagree. He has a top-notch football brain, with elite ability to get the ball close in, find space and spot a player to dish out to. I think most knocks (especially on BF) are regarding his kicking skills, as well as lack of defensive side. His kicking, while not elite, has shown some improvement this year, and if he can improve his kicking efficiency to somewhere around 70-80%, I think that will make him an A-Grade midfielder. If that happens, I think you'll find most clubs will be more inclined to put a close-tag on him. If it doesn't, he's still a vital cog in our midfield, with the ability to dish it out to the Stantons and Lovetts.

[thebigboy]

Who's Pelchen picked up?

The bloke before him got Buddy, Roughead, Lewis, Sewell, Mitchell, Hodge. If anyone, we should chase that bloke.

But I think we should give the new dept with Keane a go first. It's been going only 1 year in it's new expanded form. Surely you knew this?

Of course and its a comment made after looking over past errors.

[rines]

We will not win a flag before 2015 probably closer to 2020. We will have to wait until the next period when the draft is not compromised by GC and rebuild from there. This unfortunate wait is due to wasting time with "older rehash players/bad trades/poor future planning" under sheedy, then some absolutely woeful recruiting, bad luck with injury and a general lack of understanding about list management. I will however, continue to support the boys through this period without losing faith in my club but we can't challenge for the flag with the current group.

[Ben the Gooner]

then some absolutely woeful recruiting,

Given we're talking about 2015, I'll assume that 2003 is the absolutely last year we're talking about.

Examples?

[Wahooti Fandango]

We could try monopoly money.

[Big Jim]

I think we just have to be patient, now especially with GC coming into the competition. We won't be getting any great draft picks for the next couple of years. We have got one of the youngest squads in the comp which brings inexperience. The only way too find out if our list is any good is to get game time into these players. We'll know in 3 years if they're any good or not. What isn't helping is all these injuries that the list is getting. Some of them are unavoidable I know, but when we have continious soft tissue injuries that we have had for the last 2 years, then someone or the player welfare management department needs to be held accountable. We can't get vital games into these kids if there not on the park.

[Tre Bones]

I reckon we stay positive, enjoy watching our team play, enjoy watching our players develop, enjoy AFL in general and let the club do it's job. When it happens it happens and having gone through these not so successful years will make it all the more sweeter
:thumbsu:

[mxett]

It sucks that we are crap, and have been for a while, and probably will be for many to come But look at it this way, the crap times make you enjoy the good times, and the journey toward them even more.

[EVERLAST]

We need to keep drafting players if Skipworth's ilk who are hard working and don't rely on just flair alone.

The fact of the matter is 4 years ago when we began to fade away from the competition, most of the teams that shared that dubious honor back then have steadily made their way back up the ladder except for Melbourne and Freo. they've done this by recuiting smarter and even poaching some star players.

We would need to bite the bullet right now and pay a large sum of money for a top line AFL player to bring us back up to a competitive level.

Aside from this, a third of our current list needs to be turned over to give us something that resembles a team that can threaten the top sides in the competition.

We currently have too many players who can't sustain a high level of output over 22 rounds. By looking at our current list, we really only have half a dozen that work damn hard every second they're on the ground - Lloyd, Fletcher, Davey, McVeigh, Hille and Winderlich (when fit).

The majority will provide 12 - 16 games per year and the rest fall away dramatically to provide a third or so of something that is competitive.

Wish I could be proven incorrect but am finding it difficult to get excited about the Bombers in 2009.

[yodellinhank]

We will not win a flag before 2015 probably closer to 2020. We will have to wait until the next period when the draft is not compromised by GC and rebuild from there. This unfortunate wait is due to wasting time with "older rehash players/bad trades/poor future planning" under sheedy, then some absolutely woeful recruiting, bad luck with injury and a general lack of understanding about list management. I will however, continue to support the boys through this period without losing faith in my club but we can't challenge for the flag with the current group.

Absolute rubbish. Unless you can name the players we should've picked up with pre-season draft picks instead of the older players we recycled. Sheedy baggers role this line out all the time "oh he drafted old hacks" Go through the picks we had and make a decision with perfect hindsight, you still wont do much better.

Are you are a believer that a Ryan Cook instead of Richard Cole would've made us a finals contender? What are these bad trades we were the victims of? I'd like to know. If anything, we didn't do enough trading.

Do you disagree with the policy i believe the club seems to have adopted of building a side around developing key position players first and then drafting kids who can step into the midfield? That is i believe what could prove successful planning. Keys take longer, once they have started coming along we can draft the ready made midfield types.

[BringBackCransberg]

By looking at our current list, we really only have half a dozen that work damn hard every second they're on the ground - Lloyd, Fletcher, Davey, McVeigh, Hille and Winderlich (when fit).

Watson, Lonergan, Welsh, Reimers, McPhee? Watson, FFS??!! Watson!! Jobe F***ing Watson!

[Dick johnson]

Do you disagree with the policy i believe the club seems to have adopted of building a side around developing key position players first and then drafting kids who can step into the midfield? That is i believe what could prove successful planning. Keys take longer, once they have started coming along we can draft the ready made midfield types.

my only concern is that because KPP's take longer to develop, it takes longer to judge whether they're going to make it or not. but i guess thats life

[Ben the Gooner]

We could try monopoly money.

Worth a shot.

And what BBC said.

[Slattery_20]

Are you are a believer that a Ryan Cook instead of Richard Cole would've made us a finals contender? What are these bad trades we were the victims of? I'd like to know. If anything, we didn't do enough trading.

Surely you only go for the older bloke if you think he's going to make an impact almost immediately. With a young kid you're not just looking at that year or 2 years , you're building the list &there's some chance we would have found a good 5,8 year player. Especially with that gap in our mid-tier age group. We probably wouldn't be discussing this if the actual draft picks were more successful

[Slattery_20]

Watson, Lonergan, Welsh, Reimers, McPhee? Watson, FFS??!! Watson!! Jobe F***ing Watson!
Now name a Hawthorn, Geelong or Collingwood player who's not hard working
Very very hard.
This is the gulf.

[rines]

Some examples that spring to mind BTG:
- Not taking Selwood (i could find the numerous post I made about him as a kid)
- Letting Ted Richards go (i thought he could play and has since proven this in Sydney)
- Not taking Palmer (I think Myers will be good - but not as good, hopefully it will be a judd vs hodge level debate :))
- Not taking Rich (Hurley might be good but again we need an absolute game turner like Ablett/Judd etc.. the one in a comp level of guys who just dominate)

I won't worry about later picks because you never know what would have happened etc, but with our first picks all these guys were available AND talked about, they are not "roughies" that no one saw coming.

I guess I am the odd one out that seems to feel that KPP are slowly having a reduced impact and you only need 3-4 on your side to be a good team (take a look at Geelong/Carlton) whereas you need 8-12 quality quality mids to be competitive.

Difference of opinion I guess but I am still supporting my club and will barrack for whoever wears the jumper but I feel our recruiting philosophy needs to be addressed if we are to compete for the flag.

[sen entertainment bloke]

By not losing another game this year.

[upanddown]

Some examples that spring to mind BTG:
- Not taking Selwood (i could find the numerous post I made about him as a kid)
- Letting Ted Richards go (i thought he could play and has since proven this in Sydney)
- Not taking Palmer (I think Myers will be good - but not as good, hopefully it will be a judd vs hodge level debate :))
- Not taking Rich (Hurley might be good but again we need an absolute game turner like Ablett/Judd etc.. the one in a comp level of guys who just dominate)

I won't worry about later picks because you never know what would have happened etc, but with our first picks all these guys were available AND talked about, they are not "roughies" that no one saw coming.

I guess I am the odd one out that seems to feel that KPP are slowly having a reduced impact and you only need 3-4 on your side to be a good team (take a look at Geelong/Carlton) whereas you need 8-12 quality quality mids to be competitive.

Difference of opinion I guess but I am still supporting my club and will barrack for whoever wears the jumper but I feel our recruiting philosophy needs to be addressed if we are to compete for the flag.

Enter David Zaharakis

[lamaros]

Richards wanted to go and we tried to keep him, but his mind was set. Got a decent trade for him.

[Banga19]

- Not taking Palmer (I think Myers will be good - but not as good, hopefully it will be a judd vs hodge level debate :))


Personally I'd have Myers over Palmer. Palmer will be a pretty good player, but you have a few of those good ordinary mids. Watson, Stanton etc. (got a feeling I'll cop it for that), but Myers has potential to add a couple of things you could seriously do with. Leadership and class.

[Ben the Gooner]

Some examples that spring to mind BTG:
- Not taking Selwood (i could find the numerous post I made about him as a kid)

We took the kid with the better injury history. Hindsight is easy.

- Letting Ted Richards go (i thought he could play and has since proven this in Sydney)

I'd take Dempsey and Lonergan.

- Not taking Palmer (I think Myers will be good - but not as good, hopefully it will be a judd vs hodge level debate :))

Bit early to be calling it, quote, "absolutely woeful recruiting".

- Not taking Rich (Hurley might be good but again we need an absolute game turner like Ablett/Judd etc.. the one in a comp level of guys who just dominate)

Absolutely woeful?

I won't worry about later picks because you never know what would have happened etc, but with our first picks all these guys were available AND talked about, they are not "roughies" that no one saw coming.

I guess I am the odd one out that seems to feel that KPP are slowly having a reduced impact and you only need 3-4 on your side to be a good team (take a look at Geelong/Carlton) whereas you need 8-12 quality quality mids to be competitive.

Difference of opinion I guess but I am still supporting my club and will barrack for whoever wears the jumper but I feel our recruiting philosophy needs to be addressed if we are to compete for the flag.

I'd hardly say Gumbleton, Myers and Hurley are "absolutely woeful" players.

[Mr Mosquito]

- Not taking Rich (Hurley might be good but again we need an absolute game turner like Ablett/Judd etc.. the one in a comp level of guys who just dominate)

Foolish individual!! Every team needs an Ablett, but our most pressing need moving forward was to create a succession plan for Fletcher and now it seems that is very safe with Hurley Pears and Daniher.

If you bothered to pay any attention to the rest of our draft pick we also drafted a potentially very good mid in Zaharakis and traded for Prismall...not a bad duo to add to your midfield in one season i would think

[Runknisse]

We will be waiting a LONG time.

We will never win a premiership whilst Brett Stanton is in the team. Sorry.

[james_omahoney]

We will be waiting a LONG time.

We will never win a premiership whilst Brett Stanton is in the team. Sorry.

That's silly - as if one person would hold a team back from winning a premiership. It's not like he's a bad player anyway, and heaps of teams have won premierships with worse players than Stanton.

[ManWithNoName]

Watson is nowhere near a good enough player.s

You've shown your complete lack of football knowledge with this comment. He's in the top 5 players at the club FFS. Without him he get destroyed in the middle. He does an incredible amount but because he doesn't sprint away from packs or sit it on the chest of the full forward the cretins who make up the bulk of this site assume Watto does f--- all and criticise him.

Behind Hille, Watson's probably our most important player.

[Kong]

That's silly - as if one person would hold a team back from winning a premiership. It's not like he's a bad player anyway, and heaps of teams have won premierships with worse players than Stanton.Shannon Byrnes, anyone? Some people seem to forget that most premiership teams have players that are considered 'weak links'. Put Stanton in the Hawthorn team and while he wouldn't be a star, he wouldn't cop the abuse he does now. He is great for what he is; an outside, posession-getting speedy midfielder, running himself into the ground every game. The fact that he isn't surrounded by a midfield of A-Graders shouldn't reflect on him.

[Ben the Gooner]

We will be waiting a LONG time.

We will never win a premiership whilst Brett Stanton is in the team. Sorry.

ffs.

[BringBackCransberg]

Now name a Hawthorn, Geelong or Collingwood player who's not hard working
Very very hard.
This is the gulf.

You're right, but I don't think the gulf is as big as EVERLAST thinks it is. And I think those kind of gulfs, when traversed, are done so exponentially (well, at least not linearly). Because 8 constant hardworkers in an irregularly hardworking side don't stand out as much as 8 irregular hardworkers in a constantly hardworking side.

[james_omahoney]

We will be waiting a LONG time.

We will never win a premiership whilst Brett Stanton is in the team. Sorry.

How do I add people to my 'ignore list'?

[Ben the Gooner]

Somewhere on his user profile.:thumbsu:

[EVERLAST]

Watson, Lonergan, Welsh, Reimers, McPhee? Watson, FFS??!! Watson!! Jobe F***ing Watson!

How about taking my entire post and replying rather than picking one paragraph. We're still bottom 4 whilst other sides have slowly ascended up the league ladder.

I'm a big wrap for Watson, but he's not a top line centre by any stretch of the imagination.

Take a deep breath, read my entire post again and when you feel like replying with something that's worthy, turn your computer back on, champ ;)

[EVERLAST]

You're right, but I don't think the gulf is as big as EVERLAST thinks it is. And I think those kind of gulfs, when traversed, are done so exponentially (well, at least not linearly). Because 8 constant hardworkers in an irregularly hardworking side don't stand out as much as 8 irregular hardworkers in a constantly hardworking side.

You've obviously taken exception to my reply which is fine, I don't plan on seeking your approval but the fact remains we're a looooong way off anything that resembles a final's side, let alone a team that will threaten the top 4. Individually we have talent, as a team, there is a great deal of work to be done.

Do yourself a favour and watch our game against Port last week and watch us fail to capitalise on our momentum in the third term.

[EVERLAST]

That's silly - as if one person would hold a team back from winning a premiership. It's not like he's a bad player anyway, and heaps of teams have won premierships with worse players than Stanton.

I agree, Somerville springs to mind.

[Slattery_20]

You're right, but I don't think the gulf is as big as EVERLAST thinks it is. And I think those kind of gulfs, when traversed, are done so exponentially (well, at least not linearly). Because 8 constant hardworkers in an irregularly hardworking side don't stand out as much as 8 irregular hardworkers in a constantly hardworking side.
because when you drop 2 hard working, tough players, and bring in 2 lazy blokes, it's sorta double the difference.
And that's the difference between our best side and our worst side. Not much on talent, all on application & toughness

We bring - not naming, but usual suspects - in, it will drop so far so quickly it's not funny. Which is why it's crucial we see guys like Zaha, Hocking, to know they're good citizens at least

[rines]

I love it that you print an opinion (and that is all it was) and you are personally abused as being an idiot because it doesn't match everyones view.

I agree BTG that maybe "woeful" was overstating it in your opinion, however I stand by my comment.

I really think had we recruited some decent "immediate impact" mids we would be right up there with carlton in terms of pressuring for a flag and probably even in front.

As to your inclusion of Gumby in your list of potentials.. well I'll just keep waiting for him to play more than two games in a row :(. Hindsight for Joel Selwood? Not really, I live in Geelong, everyone knew his knee was just fine - and last example of not picking the "best" but rather the injury free... Judd vs Hodge... Also Gumby did NOT have a history of injury before draft and look at the result. We (along with others) didn't pick up Steve Johnson because of his "dodgy" ankles.. he comes out and dominates 2 seasons in a row and wins Norm Smith... perhaps too much stock put it the maybe's rather than the actual...

BTW -wasn't talking about your post re:abusive

[Ben the Gooner]

I agree BTG that maybe "woeful" was overstating it in your opinion, however I stand by my comment.

While I certainly think it's justified to question our decisions to pass on Selwood, Palmer and Rich, I don't think that we've ended up with hacks. Gumbleton, Myers and Hurley have all shown plenty of good signs in their short careers, and won't be far behind Selwood, Palmer and Rich, if at all, barring injuries.

I really think had we recruited some decent "immediate impact" mids we would be right up there with carlton in terms of pressuring for a flag and probably even in front.

While a midfield of McVeigh, Stanton, Welsh, Watson, Rich, Palmer, Selwood, Lonergan and Winderlich would be very nice, our forward options would be Lloyd, Lucas, Neagle, Still. Not very deep, is it? Our defensive options would be Fletcher, Ryder, Pears, (Hooker, Daniher). Again, not particularly deep. When Lloyd, Lucas and Fletch retire, we'd have a couple of players, and some 18 year old skinny kids. That'd be right when Selwood, Palmer and Rich would be peaking. In my opinion, and hopefully in the opinion of Dodoro and Knights, we have enough KPP for the future, and can focus on recruiting midfielders early. We will undoubtedly get our instant impact mids, but the way we're doing in, for me, makes more sense than the way Carlton is doing it, or the way the Dogs did it.

As to your inclusion of Gumby in your list of potentials.. well I'll just keep waiting for him to play more than two games in a row :(. Hindsight for Joel Selwood? Not really, I live in Geelong, everyone knew his knee was just fine - and last example of not picking the "best" but rather the injury free... Judd vs Hodge... Also Gumby did NOT have a history of injury before draft and look at the result. We (along with others) didn't pick up Steve Johnson because of his "dodgy" ankles.. he comes out and dominates 2 seasons in a row and wins Norm Smith... perhaps too much stock put it the maybe's rather than the actual...

But for all of these success stories, there's also the stories of players who are injury prone as kids, and have an injury prone career.

Carlton traded for Richard Hadley, and had him miss all of last year. I can't see him playing 22 games (seniors or reserves) this year, either.

If we'd picked Selwood at 2, and his knees had gone after 2 years, we'd be getting the peanut gallery who criticise every decision blindly (not you) complaining that we should have picked the CHF who is beginning to make a big impact at North, or the CHB who's looking good at Port etc.

[LeeARM]

one thing i wonder with the KPP vs ready-made midfielder argument is why can't we just get a midfielder next year? i'd love us to make the finals but chances are we'll probably end up around 10-13 with another early draft pick.
then we'll have our KPPs AND our midfielders ready.

[BringBackCransberg]

How about taking my entire post and replying rather than picking one paragraph. We're still bottom 4 whilst other sides have slowly ascended up the league ladder.

I'm a big wrap for Watson, but he's not a top line centre by any stretch of the imagination.

Take a deep breath, read my entire post again and when you feel like replying with something that's worthy, turn your computer back on, champ ;)

For me, that one part of the post showed that the whole thing falls down.

You're saying that we need to import a top-of-the-line midfielder and turn over one third of our list, on the back (partly) of naming 6 players as the only ones that work hard every second they're on the field. By leaving out Watson (and others), I just can't take your other views of our list seriously, when all else that is there to support them is your presumption that we're a bottom 4 side. I don't think we're a bottom 4 side. But besides that, even if we are a bottom 4 side now, you don't judge our development toward our next premiership by that. As you say, individually we've talent (I've never complained about our list), as a team there's work to be done. We've been in the rebuilding phase only since Knights has been here. But the signs for improvement, and serious improvement, are there. If it comes down to questions of commitment, well, I've already said I can't take your views on our list seriously in that respect, seeing as you left out Watson, Welsh, etc.

And I wasn't saying that Watson is a top line centre (though I think he is, for the type of centre he is), I was just taking you up on your assertion that he doesn't give his all.

You've obviously taken exception to my reply which is fine, I don't plan on seeking your approval

Look at the times of the posts. Time for an eye-test, it seems. EDIT: Sorry -- my bad. I forgot that 'reply' usually means to the OP, not to other replies.

[TechnoViking]

how can people undestimate Watson????

he is they key to our midfield, who the hell else gets bashed like he does and still manage to get it out to the others?

Have you forgotten about who was the key last year when we started winning games? Watson and Welshy.

I hate how people remember Jobes 1 bad handball every game, they forget the other 29 he does that are awesome, all contested.

[rines]

I agree that we could potential look "thin" at either end if we had gone mids not KPP. However I go back to my long held belief that KPP are slowly difting out of the game. I think in the future you will need perhaps 2 Key backs, 2 Key forwards and 2 Rucks.. the rest will all be HBF, HFF and mids. Geelong won the flag with 1 keyish forward - Cam Mooney having a great year, Nathan Ablett playing FF/CHF and 2 Key backs in Scarlett and Milburn(who is not that tall) and a great ruck combo of Otto/King/Blake. Also history shows that recruiting KPP early gives you no more chance of "success" than picking them up at 25-40 range due to the length of time to develop. Also I don't see Myers playing a Key back role, I don't see Gumby ever getting on the park (please be wrong, please be wrong, please be wrong) so we could end up still with weak ends and no midfield.

But that is the point really, we could go round and round and no one will ever know for sure. My only point is I don't see us winning a flag with this group before GC enters and then due to draft compromised etc, I think it will be sometime after that. I sincerely hope they find an AA grade mid this year. There is a big difference between true gun (ablett/judd) and good mid (hadley, lecras) even though stats may look the same. the difference, as we all know, is what the gun can do... win games off their own boot, James Hird style.

Also with regards to retirement.. I think that fletcher had another 2-3 years and same with lucas and lloyd. That gave us plenty of time to grab some mids and then let the big kids develop slowly in the vfl etc. I don't think big kids develop any faster playing AFL unlike mids who need AFL gametime to develop. I honestly believe you could have stuck lloyd in the square and had a star studded young mid help him kick 100+ (similiar to Fev situation) and we could have pressed for a flag next year. But I'm happy to agree to disagree. Hopefully knights is on the right track now and we will see a flag before 20years...

Further note: Watson is a star, he disposal effeciency just gets better and better and he is absolute class. Never stops trying and we are lost around the clearance when he or longeran are not there to actually get the ball out to the likes of lovett and stanton.

[Ben the Gooner]

On the other hand, good midfielders are more abundant. With players like Palmer and Zaharakis making an impact after being overlooked, there's still going to be plenty of talent in the top end of this draft - and we can afford to focus solely on mids in the top end of this draft.

[AhSteveSteve27]

2 Key backs in Scarlett and Milburn(who is not that tall)

AA CHB Matthew Egan says hi. I just don't get it. Yes, we took Hurley over Rich, Gumby over Selwood, but why look at these years in isolation? Who's to say there won't be better midfielders available over the next few years? Yes there will be less opportunity to draft, but that also means less margin for error when picking KPP's. Essendon is doing the exact same thing that Hawthorn did, follow a drafting plan which begins with getting decent KPPs (see Franklin, Roughead).