View Full Version : Botha reported for throwing.
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
15 Apr 2009, 01:49
South African offspinner Johan Botha has been reported for a suspected illegal bowling action by match officials after the fourth ODI against Australia in Port Elizabeth. Botha will have to undergo a bio-mechanical assessment of his action but is eligible to play international cricket at the discretion of Cricket South Africa until the tests have been completed.
The report was filed by the on-field umpires for Monday's one-dayer, Brian Jerling and Asoka de Silva, who cited concerns over Botha's quicker ball and his doosra.
http://content.cricinfo.com/rsavaus2009/content/current/story/399543.html
To be honest it's not really a surprise, it is hard to watch him bowl and not conclude that there is something a bit suss.
So do we win the series by default? :p
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
15 Apr 2009, 02:27
Good enough for me :D :D :D
Adelaide Hawk
15 Apr 2009, 06:19
How is his action any worse than Murali's? What a joke.
oh god, don't make this in to a murali thread
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
15 Apr 2009, 11:21
How is his action any worse than Murali's? What a joke.
Have a look at his action, my mate who knows stuff all about cricket saw him bowl one night on tele and asked me that he thought you couldnt throw in cricket.
silky-smooth
15 Apr 2009, 11:24
Have a look at his action, my mate who knows stuff all about cricket saw him bowl one night on tele and asked me that he thought you couldnt throw in cricket.
Still doesn't answer the question.
Or maybe it did..
Black Thunder
15 Apr 2009, 11:42
about time. he's one of the worst chuckers i've seen in cricket.
warney7
15 Apr 2009, 11:47
It's pretty bloody obvious that when an off spinner gives his delivery 'something extra', then it is no longer going to be a legal delivery.
It's just a shame he gets singled out when there is someone else, who has taken the greatest amount of test wickets in history, bowling with the same action.
Belnakor
15 Apr 2009, 12:21
FINALLY FINALLY FINALLY.
The guy chucks, he has been chucking for years. Some of the blatant chucking in the last two series was worse than Harbi, and thats saying something (still not worse than Murali to the naked eye, but Murali is more of a problem during the end of long spells in Tests IMHO, when he gets tired). Botha will often chuck the first ball of a spell. Joke.
Masten_Magic
15 Apr 2009, 13:23
i bowl leg spin but if i try to bowl an offie then it feels like i am chucking so i never bowl em
Cousin Jed
15 Apr 2009, 14:13
About time?? You mean again....
Botha's action was previously reported after his Test debut against Australia at the SCG in January, 2006. He was suspended from bowling the following month when testing confirmed the illegality of his action. In September 2006, Botha's action was once again found to be illegal even after he had worked on it. He then corrected his action, which was deemed legal upon re-testing, and he resumed playing international cricket in the 2007 Afro-Asia Cup.
"I have put a lot of work into my action," Botha said during the recent one-day series in Australia. "It probably took 10 months from my first test to the one I passed. I still have (the doosra), but I probably don't bowl it as much as I used to. Definitely, it is possible to bowl it legally.
"My doosra actually tested lower than my off spinner for elbow extension. I think my doosra was at 9 per cent, and my offie was at 11 per cent, which are both well below the limit. With the doosra, your wrist cocks to a point where it is actually harder to extend your elbow. I just use it better than I did in the past."
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
15 Apr 2009, 14:32
His quicker one definitely appears suscept, it's not just a bit quicker, it is susbstanially quicker.
So do we win the series by default? :p
Default?
The two sweetest words in the English language.
DE! FAULT! DE! FAULT!
:p
DoubleO7
15 Apr 2009, 15:32
I'm not surprised to be honest. It was just a matter of time before the umpires cracked down on his bowling action.
Thoughts on Kyle Mills?
crownie
15 Apr 2009, 18:07
chucker for sure.
but is action isn't as worse as Murali's.
Action is far worse than Muralis. Some Australians have just got to let the Murali situation go. Worse than Indians whinging about umpires.
beatnik
15 Apr 2009, 20:01
Action is far worse than Muralis.
yeah, after many slow mos i've come to accept Murali uses a unique action - to the naked eye it's suspect but when you see the wrist rotation and the release of the ball from what appears to be the back of the hand, you can see the work on the ball could well be coming from there rather than the elbow
Botha, however, seems to c*ck his arm in his approach and then straightens it with very little work from the wrist - whereas Murali looks believeable in slow mo, Botha seems much, much worse
interesting that a South African commentator on ABC (sorry, can't remember his name) said he'd been told that Johan was not considered an option for the Test side due to the fear of being exposed as a chucker in the longer format
Some Australians have just got to let the Murali situation go. Worse than Indians whinging about umpires.
not worse, annoying perhaps but not worse...India's attack on umpires has been a much bigger blight on the spirit and credibilty of the game in my opinion
Agree with the previous two posts.
His action is horrible, and I really don't see how he will get away with this one...
interesting that a South African commentator on ABC (sorry, can't remember his name) said he'd been told that Johan was not considered an option for the Test side due to the fear of being exposed as a chucker in the longer format
Yes. Neil Manthorp I think. I was listening at the time and gave the same answer before him. It was very obvious how they were handling him. In tests the individual is focussed on much more.
not worse, annoying perhaps but not worse...India's attack on umpires has been a much bigger blight on the spirit and credibilty of the game in my opinion
Sorry, bad wording from me. Didn't mean to say worse, more along the lines of 'nearly as bad'.
King Elvis
15 Apr 2009, 21:40
You can't bowl the Doosra without chucking it.
The delivery should be illegal, no exceptions.
Marklar_33
15 Apr 2009, 21:57
You can't bowl the Doosra without chucking it.
The delivery should be illegal, no exceptions.
Its possible, but I havent seen a legal doosra yet in international cricket... and Ive been trying to bowl a legal one myself. It hurts to try and I fear you need fingers that can actually wrap around the whole of the cricket ball to bowl it
So yes, the delivery should be illegal
DoubleO7
16 Apr 2009, 00:18
Its possible, but I havent seen a legal doosra yet in international cricket... and Ive been trying to bowl a legal one myself. It hurts to try and I fear you need fingers that can actually wrap around the whole of the cricket ball to bowl it
So yes, the delivery should be illegal
You have never seen Saqlain Mushtaq bowl? or Ajantha Mendis (to a degree)?
LIONS then DAYLIGHT
16 Apr 2009, 01:48
Apparently the testing protocols to be used for Botha will be a lot stricter.
In the early days we would take a mean reading from a number of deliveries and determine whether it was over or under the legal limit, but now the situation is that a bowler is not allowed to bowl any balls that extend beyond the 15 degrees during testing
Personally, i can't believe they never had this approach.
Elliott said Botha, like Muttiah Muralitharan, could not entirely straighten his bowling arm, resulting in an "abduction angle" that made for an unusual action. He also noted that Botha had encountered difficulty in bowling his doosra legally during testing in early 2006, but after remedial work in South Africa, was able to bowl "the other one" with less elbow flexion than his stock off-break.
It does seem the doosra is the main problem. It is interesting to not what would happen if he fails the test. Are you banned forever or can you keep coming back and getting retested until you pass?
Paddy_Mac
16 Apr 2009, 02:34
I used to think Murali chucked it. Believe me, I was dead set sure he chucked it. But after watching the youtube video about his bowling arm with Michael Holding. He proved he didn't chuck because his arm is double jointed giving him more rotation meaning more spin on the ball, thus more turn and that's how he's able to bowl the doosra too. He also can't fully straighten his arm, that's why it looks suspect. Apparently he has really strong hands so that also helps. He put on the bowling brace (not one of those cheapy ones this was full on it was big and you can not bend the arm) and he was still able to spin it like he normally does. So he's proven that he doesn't chuck it.
Paddy_Mac
16 Apr 2009, 02:37
You have never seen Saqlain Mushtaq bowl? or Ajantha Mendis (to a degree)?
Mendis bowls it differently. He flicks it out of his index finger I think. I forgotten how Mushtaq bowls his but his is legal as I've seen it in youtube videos.
DT_fanatic
16 Apr 2009, 03:45
I used to think Murali chucked it. Believe me, I was dead set sure he chucked it. But after watching the youtube video about his bowling arm with Michael Holding. He proved he didn't chuck because his arm is double jointed giving him more rotation meaning more spin on the ball, thus more turn and that's how he's able to bowl the doosra too. He also can't fully straighten his arm, that's why it looks suspect. Apparently he has really strong hands so that also helps. He put on the bowling brace (not one of those cheapy ones this was full on it was big and you can not bend the arm) and he was still able to spin it like he normally does. So he's proven that he doesn't chuck it.
It has been - yet there are people who reckon he chucks.
DOCKERZ
16 Apr 2009, 11:47
Bout bloody time, this bloke should take up darts...
Belnakor
16 Apr 2009, 15:51
So he's proven that he doesn't chuck it.
That is all well and good when he is fresh and bowling, but he action definately gets worse after 50 overs or so. The sooner we get that gismo that detects the degrees the better.
Belnakor
16 Apr 2009, 15:55
. Are you banned forever or can you keep coming back and getting retested until you pass?
Looks like he'll get away with it, to get the one year ban you have to be reported within 2 years of your last offence, and he last got caught in 2006. So he'll be tested, and if he fails, he'll be stopped playing international cricket until he passes a test again, presumably indefinitely.
Ricketts
16 Apr 2009, 18:28
About time this happened. Botha really grinds my gears.
Now they just have to stamp out Harbhajan and Murali and everything on the issue will be right.
crownie
16 Apr 2009, 23:10
if you have seen the footage of Murali when he was tested and he bowled with more flight and didn't generate as much spin. however when he bowled against England at home and in New Zealand his action was a disgrace.
Del Piero
17 Apr 2009, 02:22
Called it the first time I seen him bowl this past Aussie summer.
Action is a disgrace..
Got to laugh when the Sth African commentators marvel at his 'faster' ball...
How does he do that they wonder...I suggest they open both their eyes and the answer will be 'chucked' right into their face...
Copulator
17 Apr 2009, 02:23
Don't mess with the Johan!!
ManWithNoName
18 Apr 2009, 00:23
So the people who had a go at the crowds yelling "No Ball!" whenever he bowled, will they be apologising at said crowd members now?