View Full Version : Best Team Of The Last 25 Years
GhostofJimJess
10 Jan 2003, 22:31
I was interested to see the other night that it's 25 years since World Series Cricket, which is about my first real recollection of international cricket. So I thought I'd spark up a debate about our personal best teams of the last quarter century ... my cricket-watching lifetime.
Unlike AFL where we get to see pretty much an equal amount of each team if we want, international cricket doesn't really work like that. We tend to see twice as many games involving Aus than those involving two other nations, and if you don't have Pay, well that figure becomes infintecimal ... so I felt it important not to become to Aussie-centric.
Here goes my effort, with some rationale for each ...
1. Gavaskar - Run machine. Reliable. Prolific. Graceful. The perfect opener for his time.
2. Haynes - Toss-up between Dessy and Gordon Greenidge. Haynes was a little more consistent, and had greater longevity.
3. Viv Richards - The best player I've ever seen. The ultimate competitor. Intimidated even the Aussies with power and general presence.
4. Tendulkar - Basically, I just agree with Sir Donald on Sachin. Plays every shot in the book to perfection, and then he's got a few of his own. Will probably end up scoring more runs and centuries than anyone ever ... by a long way. Awesome player.
5. Lara - Amazingly gifted batsman. Has scored mega-runs of the best attacks in the world, and has personally destroyed the Aussies and Proteas both here and over there. Broke new ground and old records with his incredible run-feasts. Averages nearly 80 runs per test.
6. Botham - Imposed himself on games of cricket. Had an incredible presence, and was never out of the game, either with bat or ball.
7. Kapil Dev - Another who could be selected on either his batting or bowling. He singlehandedly bailed India out of test after test after ODI.
8. Imran Khan - The ultimate all-rounder, with a strong sense of leadership too (Never an enviable task in Pakistan!). The 92 World Cuip performance basically sealed his staure as probably the best all-rounder since Sobers.
9. Shane Warne - Hard to separate Warney or Murali for this spot, both 400+ wickets etc. Just my personal penchant for a great leggie, I spose. Consistently alters the course of an oppostion innings.
10. Ian Healy - Again, a toss-up for this spot. Not as good a bat as Dujon, but a little more longevity, and Marshy did a lot of his good work pre-1978. Tough. Reliable. Durable. Not exceptioanlly brilliant with the gloves, but still as good as anyone.
11. Dennis Lillee - Again did a lot of great work pre-78, but did some mighty fine work after too. Tipped out Curtley for the opening bowling slot. D.K. always seemed to be able to get an important breakthrough whenever thrown the ball.
Some unlucky to miss out include :
Batsmen - Greg Chappell, Javed Miandad, David Gower, Alan Border, Gordon Greenidge, Clive Lloyd
All-Rounders - Richard Hadlee - had to leave out one of him, Botham, Dev and Imran. Malcolm Marshall, Jacques Kallis
Bowlers - Curltey Ambrose, Murali, Wasim Akram, Glenn McGrath
Interestingly, I couldn't find room for a South African. They're a pretty even team, though Alan Donald and Shaun Pollock would go close to the "A" team ....
Booze Hound
11 Jan 2003, 00:00
I'd put Clive Lloyd in the middle order in place of Lara who I've never been certain about in tight situations (with one exception :))
For the 'keeper my absoliute no brainer is Alan Knott. he and Bob Taylor are by far the best keepers I've seen and Knott, although maybe just a shade below with the gloves (very close though) was comfortably the better batsman.
I would put Hadlee in place of Kapil Dev - he was just that good a bowler.
If going for a fourth seamer I would put Marshall (or my own favourite West Indies quick Andy Roberts) in and on the slower bowlers don't forget Derek Underwood.
Might also nudge Graham Gooch in as opener - if you'd seen his 100 against the West Indies at Leeds in 1991 you might as well, but I'll settle for the following:
S.M.Gavaskar - Rock solid opener
D.Haynes - Similar but with more shots
I.V.A.Richards - Master Blaster
S. Tendulkar - Best of the modern day
C.H.Lloyd - Murderous
I.T.Botham - Turned so many matches in so many ways
R.J.Hadlee - Fine bowler, dangerous batsman
A.P.E.Knott - Count the mistakes he'd make in a year on one finger
M.D.Marshall - Plenty of variety and aggresion
D.K.Lillee - Best quick I've seen
M.Muralitharan - OK, he chucks some, but you could be 200 not out, on a road, seeing it like a small planet and he could bowl you one that could leave you scratching your head
On a dusty or wet surface leave out Marshall for Underwood.
Sunil Gavaskar
Matt Hayden
Jacques Kallis
Viv Richards
Sachin Tendulkar
Adam Gilchrist
Imran Khan
Malcolm Marshall
Joel Garner
Shane Warne
Muttiah Murilitharan
Greg Chappel - 12th man
omissions: Steve Waugh, Brian Lara, Javed Miandad,Alan Border, Gordon Greendige, Desmond Haynes, Ian Healy, Jeff Dujon, Ian Botham, Wasim Akram, Curtley Ambrose, Glenn McGrath, Shaun Pollock, Dennis Lillee, Richard Hadlee, Courtney Walsh, Michael Holding. So many great bowlers and not enough positions for them all.
In fact i've decided to make my second XI:
Gordon Greendige
Des Haynes
Greg Chappell (included despite being 12th man in the 1 team)
Javed Maindad
Steve Waugh
Alan Border
Wasim Akram
Ian Healy
Richard Hadlee
Dennis Lillee
Curtley Ambrose
Ian Botham - 12th man
Still missing out on plenty of players so now my third XI:
Mark Taylor
Saeed Anwar
Ricky Ponting
Brian Lara
Inzamam-ul-Haq
Rahul Dravid
Ian Botham
Shaun Pollock
Jeff Dujon
Allan Donald
Glenn McGrath
Michael Holding - 12th man
any oversights please tell me as this was done at 3 in the morning when i couldn't sleep and am very tired with not much help from other sources so i'd probably have left some absolute run scoring machine out which should've been in there.
Gavaskar
Hayden
Kallis
Tendulkar
Chappell
Imran Khan
Hadlee
Healy
Warne
Marshall
McGrath
Gavaskar (run machine on any surface great temperament)
Hayden (has taken what Greenidge and Haynes did to a new level
Richards (no explanation needed)
Tendulkar (see richards)
Border ( i believe next to bradman is our greatest every batsmen)
Miandad (absolute genius with the bat in his hand)
Healy (brilliant gloveman to quickies and spin and scores runs
Warne (best spin bowler, dont even mention the chucker)
Ambrose (fearsome, awesome, controlled, intimidating)
Holding (WHISPERING DEATH, ENOUGH SAID
Lillee (Would teach ambrose and holding a thing or two about fast bowling that is how good he is)
We argue about the need for an allrounder in the australian team, well if you are going to pick an alltime team of the last 25 years then their is definately no need for one. Even though Botham, Khan and Kapil Dev were great players, none of them are better batters or bowlers then what is in that team, i know there a few australians and west indian players in there but that is because over the last 25 years they have been the dominating teams.
Gavaskar
Greenidge
Richards
Tendulkar
Border
Lloyd
A.Flower/Gilchrist
Akram
Marshall
Warne
Ambrose
Originally posted by Darky
A.Flower/
lol.
Originally posted by nicko18
not long ago he was the worlds best batsman, but i think it is optimistic to say he is comparable to gilchrist at his peak.
He averages low 50s WITHOUT getting to face the Zimmie pie chuckers. Lone hand in a team full of backyard cricketers.
Jim Boy
12 Jan 2003, 19:24
I wouldn't include either Gilchrist or Flower as wicketkeeper. If the position is wicketkeeper, than they should be great wicketkeepers, and neither are.
Gilchrist could get in as a batter though, although the fact that he hasn't any real longevity yet counts against him
ScouseCat
12 Jan 2003, 21:01
1. Sunil Gavaskar
2. Matthew Hayden
3. Dean Jones
4. Viv Richards
5. Sachin Tendulkar
6. Steve Waugh
7. Adam Gilchrist
8. Richard Hadlee
9. Shane Warne
10. Curtley Ambrose
11. Glenn McGrath
12th Man: Wasim Akram
Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
10. Ian Healy - Again, a toss-up for this spot. Not as good a bat as Dujon, but a little more longevity, and Marshy did a lot of his good work pre-1978. Tough. Reliable. Durable. Not exceptioanlly brilliant with the gloves, but still as good as anyone.
I hope you're kidding, how exceptionally brilliant with the gloves do you want? Probably the greatest keeper of all time, can't get much more 'exceptional' than that.
1. M.Hayden
2. S.Gavaskar
3. B.Lara
4. S.Tendulkar
5. V.Richards
6. G.Chappell
7. A.Gilchrist
8. S.Pollock
9. S.Warne
10. C.Ambrose
11. G.McGrath
A very balanced side which would be almost impossible to beat.
larrikin
12 Jan 2003, 23:09
I'm amazed at the number of people putting Matt hAyden in thier sides. He's had a great couple of years but he'll need to do lot more to get ahead of the deeds of Greenidge, Haynes, Chappell or Border (to name a few).
Originally posted by larrikin
I'm amazed at the number of people putting Matt hAyden in thier sides. He's had a great couple of years but he'll need to do lot more to get ahead of the deeds of Greenidge, Haynes, Chappell or Border (to name a few).
Greenidge and Haynes are vastly overrated batsmen, sure they were great together and were probably the second best openers the game has seen in recent times but individually they were solid but average batsmen. Neither of them hold a candle to Hayden.
Sure both Chappell and Border were just as good as Hayden (and did it for longer, so far) but neither were opening batsmen.
mightymax
13 Jan 2003, 06:54
Gjostofjimjess
Men walking along the railroad tracks...
Going some place and theyre not coming back....
Are you going to the concert ?
Perhaps we need another couple of years to put him into perspective, but Jacques Kallis would be nudjing if you wanted an allrounder. Averages of 50 and 28, and in the right order, if you know what I mean...
Wicked Lester
13 Jan 2003, 07:38
Are there any groundrules for this team. I mean 25 years takes us back to 1977/78. Do the team members have to have played the majority of their career during the 25 years or just have played at some point since 1977/78.
I'll assume the latter;
Gavaskar
Greenidge (though I think Hayden is getting close)
Richards
Greg Chappell
Tendulkar
Gilchrist
Botham
Imran Khan
Marshall
Warne
Lillee
12th man - Hadlee
13th man - Murali (a spinning option)
Great game cricket!
Its all opinion and difficult to measure.
My opinion is that the team lacks that explosive hitting power from 7 down ,where a batsmen can hit over the top late in the innings and as such Ive added Gilchrist ahead of healy,and included botham and hadlee.
Hadlee to add another pace bowler to the dimension and Botham as the nagging bowler at the other end of your strike bowlers in lillee,mcgrath and warne.
Steve waugh and viv richards can also roll there arms over if necessary and add further variety to the outfit.
im surprised waugh has been left out of most teams but ask that those doing so look at at his averages and remember the amount of times he has been the backbone in the middle of an innings where the goers have failed.
In this team a waugh allows gilchrist hadlee botham and warne to all have a go at the 10 an over run rates they are cappable of achieving.
KevinPoulsen
13 Jan 2003, 10:03
Best ODI Side:
Sachin Tendulkar
Desmond Haynes
Vivan Richards
Dean Jones
Jonty Rhodes
Stephen Waugh
Wasin Akram
Jeff Dujon/Rod Marsh (*)
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
Glenn McGrath
* Only because i think Adam Gilchrist is suited higher in the order
KevinPoulsen
13 Jan 2003, 10:11
Best TEST Side:
Gordon Greenidge
Sunil Gavaskar
Vivan Richards
Greg Chappell
Allan Border
Ian Botham
Rod Marsh
Richard Hadlee
Shane Warne
Dennis Lillee
Malcom Marshall / Joel Garner
If we are talking about all 25 years and we are assuming every player was at his best then my team would vary greatly to most. We are talking the Limited overs version of the game. While all of the legendary openers were great they were slow by todays standards and were great test openers adapting to a new game. 240 was a huge score in the eighties cause it was considered the benchmark to achieve 60 runs in the 1st 15 overs. So anyway here is my 10c worth
Gilchrist
Jayasuria (unsure on the spelling)
Tendulkar
Sir Viv Richards
Barry Richards
Steve Waugh
Ian Botham
Sir Richard Hadlee
Shane Warne
Curtly Ambrose
Glenn McGrath
GhostofJimJess
14 Jan 2003, 21:30
Wicked lester ... I guess I was thinking of their actual accomplishments during this period, as opposed to just appearing during that time. Otherwise we'd have to consider Bobby Simpson, Barry Richards and the like, and I'd have been more inclined to include Greg Chappell.
Zombie ... Agreed, Healy does supersede the likes of Gilchrist by a fair margin in the keeping department, but he wasn't overly athletic (ala Dujon), nor did he get as many stumpings pro rata as some of the real skilful in close keepers (ala Kirmani, Grout), despite having possibly the greatest spinner of all time in the mix. Rod Marsh never had that luxury. Heals also never had a great ability to stand up for a medium-pacer. All these things contribute to what I would class a "skilful" keeper. You'll also noticed I still thought enough of the boy to include him in my line-up ... he's no slouch.
Mightmax ... why do I know those profound words ...?
Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
Zombie ... Agreed, Healy does supersede the likes of Gilchrist by a fair margin in the keeping department, but he wasn't overly athletic (ala Dujon), nor did he get as many stumpings pro rata as some of the real skilful in close keepers (ala Kirmani, Grout), despite having possibly the greatest spinner of all time in the mix. Rod Marsh never had that luxury. Heals also never had a great ability to stand up for a medium-pacer. All these things contribute to what I would class a "skilful" keeper. You'll also noticed I still thought enough of the boy to include him in my line-up ... he's no slouch.
Personally I think Gilchrist is a very much underrated keeper, sure he is no Healy or Marsh but he is probably the 2nd best keeper in the world at the moment. His batting seems to distract people from the fact that he is also a good keeper, if he makes a mistake as a keeper people seem to bag him a little for it.
Healy didn't get many stumpings from Warne because most batsmen wouldn't leave their crease to Warne as they do to off spinners like Murali.
Healy and Gilchrist's ratio of dismissals in stumpings are not in proportion with sub-continental keepers, mainly because they don't keep wickets for innings that are 90% spin.
Even going back to earlier Aussie keepers, they kept to spinning pairs like O'Reilly/Grimmett who bolwed huge amounts of overs (Grimmett averaged six wickets per Test, and O'Reilly over five)... the Indians often bowled three or four spinners during the 70s...
Healy kept to the spin of mainly Shane Warne and Tim May. Since that pairing, there have rarely been two spinners used together. Also, I reckon because of the big turn that Warne gets, a lot of his edges are thicker and ended up in the hands of Mark Taylor at slip. They had the record of the most combined dismissals for a non-keeper catching... probably still do... 53 was it?
Aussie-Basher
21 Jan 2003, 01:30
1. Gavaskar
2. Gooch
3. Lara
4. Tendulkar
5. I.V.A.
6. Botham
7. Imran
8. Knott
9. Hadlee
10.Marshall
11.Muralithuran
Originally posted by ian68
Barry Richards
Errr... for his zero one-day internationals? :confused:
Originally posted by Zombie
Personally I think Gilchrist is a very much underrated keeper, sure he is no Healy or Marsh but he is probably the 2nd best keeper in the world at the moment.
So who's the best, Wade Seccombe?