What are your expectations for the next 5 years?

[Gus2Gumby]

I don't post very often, but I read threads regularly and I am finding lately that people have very different views on where our club is heading.

I'm going to give you my views and try to get some opinions here.

What do you expect our club to achieve in the next 5 years?

I think a lot of people and thinking about right now and not the future, which is where we should be looking.

Firstly, I know that we are playing kids right now and i'm not saying in any way to just drop Lloyd, Lucas, Dustin ect. I am simply saying that they need to be given smaller roles. We need them to provide leadership and to step up in big games, but they shouldn't be the focus point of what we are trying to do.

Play Neagle at FF. Play Hurley or Daniher on the best opposition forward. Give Lonergan, Houli, Hocking ect a go on the ball against the likes or the Geelong, Carlton and St Kilda midfields. She what they've got and give them a chance to learn from it.

Personally, I don't care if we don't win another game for 12 months, as long as we are improving and working toward something in the future.

This year- Play the kids. Decide on a game plan for the group coming through and begin to implement it. Hawthorn took 3 years to perfect their 'rolling zone'. They went through some shit times but it was worth it in the end.

2010- Continue to play the kids. Develop the tactics and begin to tick things off. Top 8 should be the goal.

2011- The kids are now men. Use the season to get positions, tactics, roles and the gameplan down pat. Aim for top 4.

2012-15 This is our window. The experience and knowledge of how we play is there and we should be hitting our straps.

I know this may be hard for some to swallow and it takes a lot of patience to get through this, but it has to be done. I think it will be worth it in the end.

Lets be realistic here. We aren't going to contend for a premiership in the next 18 months. So why just sit and tread water by playing experienced players in key roles each week? Use the time we have to be creative, try some things and find out what the young guys can do.

At the beginning of 2011 what would you prefer?

17 wins in the past 2 seasons and maybe a finals game after an 8th placed finish? However we would have players coming through to replace Lloydy, Fletch, Lucas and a few other that may be finishing up (e.g Hille, Spike, Welsh) that only have limited expereince in the AFL and with our gameplan?

Or perhaps only 8-10 wins, but a group of mature kids that have played 50-100 games each, been exposed to Knighta's style of football for 2 years, played on the best players in the league and learnt from mistakes and are ready to take the next step?

[toddy104]

That window just keep getting pushed further and further away. Although I do agree with you that we are still a while away from contending that top 4.

[BomberFan_23]

TOP 4 IN 5 Years. Our skinny young defence will be in it's prime. Guys like prismall and co will be 27. Zaka winder dempsey and stants will be in there prime Our only problem could be forward line if Gumby keeps getting injured. Jetta will be more consistant. The only players we might not have in 5 years are fletch lucas lloyd. A few might get delisted cos of form, NLM skippy dyson mcphee etc. But If we can hold on to this group for 5 years we will be in contention. we will have a lot more players in the 75 - 125 game bracket and we'll be up there again!

anything but top 4 in 5 years will be seen as a failure!

[Boucks09]

Firstly, I know that we are playing kids right now and i'm not saying in any way to just drop Lloyd, Lucas, Dustin ect. I am simply saying that they need to be given smaller roles. We need them to provide leadership and to step up in big games, but they shouldn't be the focus point of what we are trying to do.

Hence why Lloyd moves up the ground, Fletcher plays as lose man and Lucas roams around the ground.

Play Neagle at FF. Play Hurley or Daniher on the best opposition forward.

The plan was to play Neagle at FF but until he can impact a game for more than the first 60 seconds of a match he won't be selected. But it will happen if and when he improves.

Darcy played on Fevola, Hurley on Tredrea, Ryder on Buddy last year. Fletcher doesn't play on the key forwards any more.

Give Lonergan, Houli, Hocking ect a go on the ball against the likes or the Geelong, Carlton and St Kilda midfields. She what they've got and give them a chance to learn from it.

This has been happening for the last 2 seasons. We play head to head with the gun midfields and we saw how far behind we were. This year we have introduced a defensive element to our game which has worked incredibily well and is the reason the likes of Houli aren't getting a game. We don't want to breed a team of downhill skiers going one way and are close now to finding a balance.

Personally, I don't care if we don't win another game for 12 months, as long as we are improving and working toward something in the future.

That's very easy to say when we are 2-2 and have beaten Carlton. Go back to when we were 2-10 last year and it is not pretty. We need to win games to give the young guys confidence. Unless you are in a situation like Melbourne, losing is not an option.

This year- Play the kids. Decide on a game plan for the group coming through and begin to implement it. Hawthorn took 3 years to perfect their 'rolling zone'. They went through some shit times but it was worth it in the end.

We are playing the kids. Already we have 2 debutants from last years draft. The game plan has been developed around the likes of Dempsey, Lovett, Davey, Jetta, Reimers, Winderlich who are fast and take the game on.

2010- Continue to play the kids. Develop the tactics and begin to tick things off. Top 8 should be the goal.

Disagree this is the goal for this year. We won 8 games last year and should improve.

2011- The kids are now men. Use the season to get positions, tactics, roles and the gameplan down pat. Aim for top 4.

Should be the goal for 2010 IMHO.

2012-15 This is our window. The experience and knowledge of how we play is there and we should be hitting our straps.

I'd say 2011 onwards.

Lets be realistic here. We aren't going to contend for a premiership in the next 18 months. So why just sit and tread water by playing experienced players in key roles each week? Use the time we have to be creative, try some things and find out what the young guys can do.

At the beginning of 2011 what would you prefer?

17 wins in the past 2 seasons and maybe a finals game after an 8th placed finish? However we would have players coming through to replace Lloydy, Fletch, Lucas and a few other that may be finishing up (e.g Hille, Spike, Welsh) that only have limited expereince in the AFL and with our gameplan?

Or perhaps only 8-10 wins, but a group of mature kids that have played 50-100 games each, been exposed to Knighta's style of football for 2 years, played on the best players in the league and learnt from mistakes and are ready to take the next step?

That is what we are doing. Did you notice that at the end of last season we delisted Peverill, Jason Johnson, Ramanauskas, Michael, Johns et al. A few of those players could still be in the team (Peverill in particular). We ARE creative and we ARE trying things. The worst of it was last year and I expect us to improve each year from now on.

I believe so far this year we have shown that our defensive zone and structures is 200% better than last year and is working really well. We just need to work on getting through defensive zones and using the ball better through improved skills and decision making.

We are well and truly on the right track in my book.

[Daytripper]

There is nothing between the 5th best team in the comp and the 13th best team in the comp. They are all basically level and the games are decided on the injury list and the mindset of the players at the time.

2009 - top 8 if injuries go our way. There really isn't any reason why we can't make it if things go right. Collingwood this week is a winnable game with Shaw and Maxwell out. Brisbane the next week have no rucks as they have been hit by the injury stick as well so that is winnable. That would make us 4-2 after Rd 6, certainly in a good position.

2010 - 4th to 6th as the depth starts to improve and we aren't so reliant on our injury list.

2011 - top 4, tilt at flag

2012 - top 4, tilt at flag

[Mr Mosquito]

I think this may be realisitic.....however what the unknown is....is how the boys will go next year. After a promising start anything is possible.....if we happent o sneak into finals then for sure, top 4 is the aim next year, however if we slide and miss the finals i think just making the 8 will be good enough next year.

[Gus2Gumby]

Boucks,

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we aren't doing those things. I am just trying to explain to people that it's what i would like to see and why. I really like what Knighta is doing, but i don't want people to start getting impatient and angry with him because we aren't winning games that we maybe could.

If he gets pressured into feeling like he has to win instead of developing the players it will really compromise our future.

If we wanted to, we could probably play Lloyd, Lucas and Fletch in key position and scrape into the 8 the next couple of years. But when they finish up in 2-3 years we are left with an inexperience group and another 5 years of struggling. And like you said we could have kept Pev, JJ ect and won a few more games. But again wouldn't have helped us acheive our goal.

[Daytripper]

If he gets pressured into feeling like he has to win instead of developing the players it will really compromise our future.

You can do both you know. Hawthorn did it last year.

If you want to watch an under age comp then the Calder Cannons play most weekends.

This is a senior competition. It comprises players 18yo-33yo.
Not 18yo-21yo.

[kelvin_sheedy]

I'd be hoping we can somehow pinch the flag next year.

Kids like Zaharakis, Reimers, Lonergan step right up and the mid tier in Hille, McVeigh, Welsh, Watson, Stanton, Lovett, Winderlich continue to improve.

Fletch and Lloyd keep on keeping on.

Top 8 this year.

Top 4 next year.

[BomberComfort]

I'd be hoping we can somehow pinch the flag next year.

Kids like Zaharakis, Reimers, Lonergan step right up and the mid tier in Hille, McVeigh, Welsh, Watson, Stanton, Lovett, Winderlich continue to improve.

Fletch and Lloyd keep on keeping on.

Top 8 this year.

Top 4 next year.

I feel the same, in fact I thought we could do it this year, however we needed to win last week :( My hope was we play saints in 1 PF and cats play hawks in the other. Hawks beat cats and we beat saints. Then we stop Hawks going back to back ;)

[ant555]

I'd be hoping we can somehow pinch the flag next year.

Kids like Zaharakis, Reimers, Lonergan step right up and the mid tier in Hille, McVeigh, Welsh, Watson, Stanton, Lovett, Winderlich continue to improve.

Fletch and Lloyd keep on keeping on.

Top 8 this year.

Top 4 next year.

Just think you are looking for too much too ealry KS.
I think a lot of people have not factored in the fact that Lloyd and Lucas are declining and it is a big ask to expect 8 or 9 young kids with potential to step up all at once.
You see it with two or three but you rarely see a side make a big jump based on 8 or 9 20 years olds suddenly making a huge impact.
I think it will be a further 3 or 4 years before you can say that Zaka , Hurley , Reimers, Houli, Lonergan , Pears, Daniher , Jetta ,Hocking etc can make an impact week in and week out.

[KaaN10]

3 finals appearances in 5 years would be great

[Enki]

We should, if our kids continue to improve and we recruit well in the next couple of years, challenge for a flag around 2012. Between now and then is negotiable, it's dependant on many factors and subject to specific analysis in any given year, not broad reaching generalisation such as "we need to be pushing into the top 4 by 2010".
Edit: I should have made clear that challenging for a flag doesn't neccessary mean getting to the grand final, but as long as the signs are there that we are legitimate contenders for the next 4 or so years I'd be content.

[Boucks09]

Boucks,

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying we aren't doing those things. I am just trying to explain to people that it's what i would like to see and why. I really like what Knighta is doing, but i don't want people to start getting impatient and angry with him because we aren't winning games that we maybe could.

If he gets pressured into feeling like he has to win instead of developing the players it will really compromise our future.

If we wanted to, we could probably play Lloyd, Lucas and Fletch in key position and scrape into the 8 the next couple of years. But when they finish up in 2-3 years we are left with an inexperience group and another 5 years of struggling. And like you said we could have kept Pev, JJ ect and won a few more games. But again wouldn't have helped us acheive our goal.

Yeah sorry Gus, just wasn't sure if you thought 'we should be doing this' or if 'we are doing this'. My thoughts on Knighta are that he won't feel pressured into playing for the now rather than the future. This has been shown a few times this year with the way he is treating specific players. The obvious are the positions he is playing the 3 veterans as we mentioned, but even the manner he treats the young boys shows that he wants to mould a team that will be competitive in the long haul. Decisions such as:

- Ensuring Houli gets the defensive side of his game fixed before playing seniors to create a well rounded multi dimensional player. The same can be said with Jetta in trying to improve his conditioning so he can play midfield
- Drafting KPP players and giving them responsibility (e.g. Daniher, Pears, Hurley, Hooker)
- Sticking to the game plan throughout. He copped a lot of heat last year for playing attacking football but we are seeing players more confident and capable now with taking the game on (well in 2 out of 4 games so far this year).

Supporters will get impatient and that is understandable given that we are a big team and have not played finals for 4 years. However those with an undestanding of the team will see where Knights is taking the team and enjoy the inevitable move up the ladder.

We should play finals this year, but losses like last week won't help in the slightest as we have a tough draw.

[Ben the Gooner]

Premiership. Nothing less.

I'd be hoping we can somehow pinch the flag next year.

Stop being so negative, kelvin.:rolleyes:

[stay true]

Hence why Lloyd moves up the ground, Fletcher plays as lose man and Lucas roams around the ground.



The plan was to play Neagle at FF but until he can impact a game for more than the first 60 seconds of a match he won't be selected. But it will happen if and when he improves.

Darcy played on Fevola, Hurley on Tredrea, Ryder on Buddy last year. Fletcher doesn't play on the key forwards any more.



This has been happening for the last 2 seasons. We play head to head with the gun midfields and we saw how far behind we were. This year we have introduced a defensive element to our game which has worked incredibily well and is the reason the likes of Houli aren't getting a game. We don't want to breed a team of downhill skiers going one way and are close now to finding a balance.



That's very easy to say when we are 2-2 and have beaten Carlton. Go back to when we were 2-10 last year and it is not pretty. We need to win games to give the young guys confidence. Unless you are in a situation like Melbourne, losing is not an option.



We are playing the kids. Already we have 2 debutants from last years draft. The game plan has been developed around the likes of Dempsey, Lovett, Davey, Jetta, Reimers, Winderlich who are fast and take the game on.



Disagree this is the goal for this year. We won 8 games last year and should improve.



Should be the goal for 2010 IMHO.



I'd say 2011 onwards.



That is what we are doing. Did you notice that at the end of last season we delisted Peverill, Jason Johnson, Ramanauskas, Michael, Johns et al. A few of those players could still be in the team (Peverill in particular). We ARE creative and we ARE trying things. The worst of it was last year and I expect us to improve each year from now on.

I believe so far this year we have shown that our defensive zone and structures is 200% better than last year and is working really well. We just need to work on getting through defensive zones and using the ball better through improved skills and decision making.

We are well and truly on the right track in my book.
Totally agree with Boucks:thumbsu: