View Full Version : Lehmann reprimanded
Foxtrot
16 Jan 2003, 05:40
Here's a nice story (http://www-aus.cricket.org/link_to_database/ARCHIVE/CRICKET_NEWS/2003/JAN/122623_AUS_15JAN2003.html)
You can't blame the fact that you are slow on their skin colour boof.
St-KriS
16 Jan 2003, 06:39
Does anyone know exactly what Boof said? :confused:
I wonder if his outburst is anything to do with Sri Lanka's disgraceful go slow tactics.Ch9 showed vision of Boof getting fed up with the go slow tactics by SL.
The ICC need to bring in some rule about slow bowling in the 2nd innings of ODI's.The 1st team bowling can be punished by having batting overs taken away,but the 2nd can take as long as they want.
wagstaff
16 Jan 2003, 12:47
Originally posted by JUBJUB
I wonder if his outburst is anything to do with Sri Lanka's disgraceful go slow tactics.Ch9 showed vision of Boof getting fed up with the go slow tactics by SL.
If that's the reason for his outburst (and he did seem to be getting frustrated at one stage), then Lehmann clearly hasn't got the temperament for international cricket. Gamesmanship occurs in all forms in cricket, not least by the Aussies.
Dragging out an innings by a few extra minutes is hardly the toughest test of a batsmen in international cricket.
i would be ****ed off too if i was playing against a chucker who was getting wickets,
Brett Li
16 Jan 2003, 17:12
Originally posted by St-KriS
Does anyone know exactly what Boof said? :confused:
Do we really NEED to know?:confused:
St-KriS
16 Jan 2003, 17:15
Originally posted by Brett Li
Do we really NEED to know?:confused:
Well if it was something outrageously racist and ignorant, my opinion of Darren would probably change. So yeah, I wouldnt mind knowing what he said.
Brett Li
16 Jan 2003, 17:42
Originally posted by St-KriS
Well if it was something outrageously racist and ignorant, my opinion of Darren would probably change. So yeah, I wouldnt mind knowing what he said.
So we really need to hear racist slurs to believe them? It isn't enough that he apologized over racist remarks for you to believe he actually said something racist~?. I don't think offensive and ignorant remarks need be paraded over the media or this chat site for that matter....
St-KriS
16 Jan 2003, 17:45
Originally posted by Brett Li
So we really need to hear racist slurs to believe them? It isn't enough that he apologized over racist remarks for you to believe he actually said something racist~?. I don't think offensive and ignorant remarks need be paraded over the media or this chat site for that matter....
Dammit, Im just curious. I dont particulary want his name dragged through the mud.
GoEagles
16 Jan 2003, 18:31
Originally posted by acuguy
i would be ****ed off too if i was playing against a chucker who was getting wickets,
Difference is, Brett Lee doesn't take many wickets.
I'm sure it was nothing worse than what the Sri Lankans were saying on their South African tour.
but of course Sri Lanka are always the victims, aren't they.
If you think Brett Lee is a chucker than you know nothing about cricket, nothing worse than an idiot with no idea.
Originally posted by scmods
I'm sure it was nothing worse than what the Sri Lankans were saying on their South African tour.
but of course Sri Lanka are always the victims, aren't they.
Yes,the wicketkeeper should be more careful with his comments considering he's close to a microphone.
Originally posted by acuguy
If you think Brett Lee is a chucker than you know nothing about cricket, nothing worse than an idiot with no idea.
And if you think his action is legal, then you know nothing about cricket you dumb fool.
Post removed by Moderator.
dr nick
16 Jan 2003, 22:02
Originally posted by Catman
And if you think his action is legal, then you know nothing about cricket you dumb fool.
poor call
dr nick
16 Jan 2003, 22:05
Originally posted by scmods
I'm sure it was nothing worse than what the Sri Lankans were saying on their South African tour.
but of course Sri Lanka are always the victims, aren't they.
yes, i saw that live and was glued to the tv for the entire days cricket. some of the sledging was unbelievable. thankyou for the south african network who broadcast it. channel 9 would have turned the microphones off.
Boucher, Andrew Hall and Shaun Polock really copped it from Sangakkara. but boucher dished it all out in the SL innings. all started from an innocent, yet inappropriate hug of jayawardene's helmet from pollock who claimed he was lucky.
dr nick
16 Jan 2003, 22:07
the difference between that incident in south africa and boof's was that there was no racism involved. racism is frowned on a lot more heavily than normal run of the mill sledging.
wagstaff
16 Jan 2003, 22:31
Apparently Lehmann was heard to say 'black c***' as he entered the dressing room.
dr nick
16 Jan 2003, 22:38
Originally posted by wagstaff
Apparently Lehmann was heard to say 'black c***' as he entered the dressing room.
Apparantly thats worse than Ian Healy calling Arjuna Ranatunga a 'fat c***' :rolleyes:
Originally posted by wagstaff
Apparently Lehmann was heard to say 'black c***' as he entered the dressing room.
What's racist about that? It isn't a nice thing to say but it isn't racist.
Originally posted by nicko18
Apparantly thats worse than Ian Healy calling Arjuna Ranatunga a 'fat c***' :rolleyes:
Well, I guess the dufference there is you can't do much about the colour of your skin (unless you are Michael Jackson), but you CAN do something about being fat. :D
dr nick
17 Jan 2003, 08:01
Originally posted by Becker
Well, I guess the dufference there is you can't do much about the colour of your skin (unless you are Michael Jackson), but you CAN do something about being fat. :D
well, i'm also guessing its a lot worse than being called a small c*** as well. political correctness gone mad. the world is too frightened of slipping back to apartheid.
Wicked Lester
17 Jan 2003, 08:53
Is it confirmed that "black c***" was the sledge? One newspaper this morning suggested it was "black b*****d".
I suppose it doesn't make to much difference which one it was.
The Sri Lankans and Clive Lloyd seemed to me to be more than satisfied with the apology (verbal and written) which they appeared to regard as genuine and and very quickly delivered.
In fact both Jayasuria and Lloyd appeared to be trying to play the incident down suggesting they thought it out of character, delivered in the heat of the moment and not worth pursuing further.
The ICC via Malcolm Speed seem to be determined to make an issue of it to prove the ICC's policy works.
Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Originally posted by nicko18
the difference between that incident in south africa and boof's was that there was no racism involved. racism is frowned on a lot more heavily than normal run of the mill sledging.
I can't remember the name of the South African player, but he was the only black player in the team - when he was batting, the Sri Lankan keeper was making comments along the lines of "Why are you in the team? What is it that makes you different to the rest of your team?" etc
Didn't outright call him a black ****, but was certainly using his colour as the basis of his sledging.
I can't remember the name of the South African player, but he was the only black player in the team - when he was batting, the Sri Lankan keeper was making comments along the lines of "Why are you in the team? What is it that makes you different to the rest of your team?" etc
That was Ashwell Prince...they were calling him the scapegoat....saying they all hated him because of his colour and put him into the firing line because they wanted him out of the team...
Groucho
17 Jan 2003, 11:54
Originally posted by Wicked Lester
Is it confirmed that "black c***" was the sledge? One newspaper this morning suggested it was "black b*****d".
I suppose it doesn't make to much difference which one it was.
The Sri Lankans and Clive Lloyd seemed to me to be more than satisfied with the apology (verbal and written) which they appeared to regard as genuine and and very quickly delivered.
In fact both Jayasuria and Lloyd appeared to be trying to play the incident down suggesting they thought it out of character, delivered in the heat of the moment and not worth pursuing further.
The ICC via Malcolm Speed seem to be determined to make an issue of it to prove the ICC's policy works.
Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Well he's guilty so it's really just a matter of deciding a penalty,bearing in mind that there are no provisions for fines. He'll probably get a couple of games I think.
dr nick
17 Jan 2003, 12:15
well ive read about 4 sources, and the tv news, and they all say he said the "c" word.
i dont think it is really that big an issue, some teams play the race card very well, and the ICC bows to it. there are far worse sledges than that going around, why is it that they take particular offence to be called black as opposed to anything else?? is it something to be ashamed of?
Dogwatcher
17 Jan 2003, 12:22
This is going to cause a minor riot, but here goes.
Is yelling 'black bastard' in a change room, not directly at anyone really a racial abuse.
1) he wasn't abusing anyone in particular
2) he wasn't being derogatory
3) It was a word, albeit a very poor choice of word.
He's ****ed off at the Sri Lankans for getting him out and his picked their most visible body feature to vent his anger.
As someone pointed out had they been fat he would have yelled out fat bastard, if they'd had dicks on their head he would have called them ********s.
I'm not justifying what he said, because its not something that anyone should say, particularly an educated person.
But...is it really rascist? He wasn't being demeaning, he wasn't suggesting that they were inferior due to their skin tone and he wasn't trying to put them down.
Where now does rascism end?
As far as the Sri Lankans and the rest of the world goes, Lehmann is now going to be branded a rascist, particularly in the sub -continent. Sad for him, his own fault.
Yet from some of the posts that have appeared here, the Sri Lankans were using tactics regarding a player's skin in South Africa, just not as blatently. Yet they will not be considered rascist.
I'm not saying any of this is right, but I'm suggesting the boundaries are blurred.
Originally posted by Wicked Lester
The ICC via Malcolm Speed seem to be determined to make an issue of it to prove the ICC's policy works.
Will be interesting to see how this pans out.
Aren't the ICC priceless? (or should that be worthless?). These toothless tigers do nothing about cheating, betting on games, chuckers, sledging, and just about every other issue you can think of, and yet they jump into the Darren Lehmann case.
Why? Because it is an easy one. White guy calls black guy a back anything, and it is a racial slur. The ICC are just too politically correct to be of worth to anyone.
Malcolm Speed, your mob has a history of being non-commital, how about maintaining your perfect record?
You know, I thought the Australian team, with all their minders and hangers on, would have got it right by now. The correct thing to say is "Stupid bastard" - then if anyone has a go, you can always claim you were referring to yourself, for getting out.....
Darren Lehmann appears to be in a bit of trouble here. He has to front the ICC (Clive Lloyd) tomorrow morning at 9am, and if found guilty, Clive Lloyd has to fix a penalty of between 4-8 one day matches.
Seeing as Darren has already admitted the charge, it would appear he must receive a penalty of at least 4 matches.
Well done ICC, now see if you can do something about match fixing, gambling, cheating on the field, sledging, and chucking.
I find those issues far more offensive than something I never saw or heard a player do.
SpecialBruce
17 Jan 2003, 18:29
Originally posted by acuguy
If you think Brett Lee is a chucker than you know nothing about cricket, nothing worse than an idiot with no idea.
Gee you can talk. Stop criticising other bowlers if you refuse to look closer at your very own 'crap yet can't bowl' Brett Lee. Murli was cleared. Donald Bradman even said he doesn't chuck. Thats like saying Donald Bradman knows nothing about cricket because he said that Murli doesn't chuck and you are saying he does chuck. Bradman would have more of an idea than what you will ever have on cricket.
I take it you were one of the ones that cheered when he went off the ground with a quad strain? I wouldn't put it past you.
Jim Boy
17 Jan 2003, 19:58
Geez, it really is tough on Boof
the actual rules are
Level 3 Penalty provision
Penalties for Level 3 offences will range from a ban for the player or match official concerned of between 2 and 4 Test matches or between 4 and 8 ODI matches
Level 3 Offences
3.4 Using language or gestures that offends, insults, humiliates, intimidates, threatens, disparages or vilifies another person on the basis of that person's race, religion, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin.
Considering the remark in question, although insulting, is only questionably racist, then Boof's only argument is that it was a fair description, although he would still have to justify why he alluded to the skin colour of the Sri Lankans.
Anyway, I don't think you get rid of racism by giving people a reason to develop a chip on their shoulder. IMO the AFL approach is far superior approach to this sort of issue.
Boof was certainly guilty of a level 2 breach
Level 2 Penalty provision
Level 2 penalties will range from a fine of the equivalent of between 50% of the player or official's match fee, up to their full match fee and/or a 1 Test Match or 2 ODI Match ban.
Level 2 Offences
2.9 Using language that is obscene, offensive or of a seriously insulting nature to another player, umpire, referee, Team Official or spectator. (It is acknowledged that there will be verbal exchanges between players in the course of play. Rather than seeking to eliminate these exchanges entirely, umpires will look to lay charges when this falls below an acceptance standard. In this instance, language will be interpreted to include gestures)
GOALden Hawk
17 Jan 2003, 21:33
I have no problems with Lehmann getting reported and suspended if he was guilty of racial vilification.
My question is, where was the reports from the South Africa v Sri Lanka series.
I like a few others here watched those games and simply couldn't believe some of the sledging - it was literally every ball. Great TV, but I hardly think the ICC would have been too happy about it.
Yet nothing was done about it.
dr nick
17 Jan 2003, 22:51
its just like if you have a dispute with a neighbour who happens to be asian you are a racist. you just arent allowed to mention a persons skin colour or ethnic background these days :rolleyes:
i think darren lehmann is a fat, bald c***, i think steven harmison is a tall, gangly c***, i think scott muller cant bowl and cant throw and i think arjuna ranatunga is a fat, black c***, yet for some reason the latter will get me in trouble whereas the other three wont.
if they are going to come down hard on lehmann, fair enough, but they have to come down hard on a lot of other things as well if they do.
Briedis
17 Jan 2003, 23:08
Originally posted by nicko18
well ive read about 4 sources, and the tv news, and they all say he said the "c" word.
i dont think it is really that big an issue, some teams play the race card very well, and the ICC bows to it. there are far worse sledges than that going around, why is it that they take particular offence to be called black as opposed to anything else?? is it something to be ashamed of?
I agree that a lot of countries play the race card a bit too often, but I don't think this is the case here.
The "black" reference is incredibly offensive because of the history of white treatment of blacks. I don't remember their ever being segregation in a country of people into fat and thin, but black and white. This is where the resentment comes from.
I also think that Lehmann should be made an example of. The fact that he made the comment indirectly is more of an example of his character than if he had of said it directly to a Sri Lankan player. Gutless act.
What would happen if a black cricketer calls a white cricketer whitey?
Racist?
Still he should have known better. :o
We need a Mike Moore type of character to front the ICC and make a doco about it.
Maybe call it "Bowling for Murali"?
Dogwatcher
18 Jan 2003, 00:35
mcDermott was a white coward according to crowds in the caribbean.
Bombers 2003
18 Jan 2003, 12:22
I agree with Wicked Lester.
Acuman.
I'd rather watch Murali bowl then Brett Lee.As for the "Chucking" accusations,are u a mate of Emerson and Hair Brain?.
goal_umpire
18 Jan 2003, 12:43
Here is the latest.
Lehmann suspended
AAP - 18 January 2003
ADELAIDE, Jan 18 AAP - Australian batsman Darren Lehmann was today suspended for five one day international matches for breaching the International Cricket Council's racial vilification code.
Lehmann was found guilty of a breach during a three hour hearing in Adelaide today.
Lehmann is the first international cricketer to be suspended for breaching the game's racial code of conduct.
Lehmann was to have been vice captain in the tomorrow's one day match against England at Adelaide Oval, but national selectors are believed to have summoned New South Wales batsman Michael Clarke as his replacement.
The South Australian and Yorkshire captain had already apologised for a racial slur after being dismissed against Sri Lanka in one day match in Brisbane on Wednesday.
He offered a verbal and written apologies to the Sri Lankans which were immediately accepted.
The Australian Cricket Board instructed Lehmann to also undergo counselling but did not impose a further penalty, prompting the ICC to charge the left-handed batsman under its racial vilification code.
that's what happens when the ICC stick their noses in where it shouldn't
:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
GoEagles
18 Jan 2003, 18:02
Originally posted by suzi_olsen
that's what happens when the ICC stick their noses in where it shouldn't
Suzi, the ICC needs to set an example that racism in cricket and sport in general won't be tollerated. Yes 5 matches seems very harsh (I would have said 2-3 games) but this is the 21st century.
The AFL has vilification rules and so should cricket.
Dogwatcher
18 Jan 2003, 18:26
Well, azt least we can say tjhat the ICC has continued its recognised tough approach to infractions of the rules and laws of the game. No one can deny that.
dreamkillers
18 Jan 2003, 19:30
Originally posted by GoEagles
The AFL has vilification rules and so should cricket.
I don't have a problem with that and Lehmann's penalty as long as the ICC is consistent.
For this to occur they would have to have interpeters at each match listening in on the non-english comments made on and now off the field as I'm sure the umpires and match referee would have no idea what is being said most of the time.
Somehow I don't believe this is the case which IMO makes the ICC a bunch of hypocrites in their case against Lehmann.