Who is better, Beinke or Richardson?? [Archive]

Macca19

14 Mar 2001, 14:28

Originally posted by QT:
Both players were sorta SANFL Full Forward champs, having a last shot at AFL, which one do you prefer??

Well your wrong about Beinke!!! Last shot at AFL...when he joined the crows he was only 23. He went to North in 97 as a rookie list player. When he came back to port in 98, he started the first part of the year in his natural normal position as a back pocket, until they put him forward where he blossomed. I wouldnt say he was a full forward champ!! Far from it. At the end of the 1999 season he had played 61 games for 64 goals, i wouldnt call that fantastic. He played half a year at centre half forward for port where he seemed to blossom. He ended up winning the best and fairest award.

That out the way...Beinke when he played last year, showed a damn lot of promise in the forward lines, its a pity he got benched a lot and got injured just as much. He is inconcsistent, even at SANFL level, but that said, id rather him at f ull forward than richardson.

14 Mar 2001, 17:15

Thanx Mr. Macca

Beinke to me is at his best at FF. I just thought these players had similar scenarios in gettin onto an AFL list.

------------------
"I came here to win, I am a winner" - Denzel Washington , Remember The Titans ; 2000

Crows.ok

14 Mar 2001, 18:02

Frankly Macca, given some of the opinions on players you have sprouted in the past, and in particular your assesment of players on Crows list relative to players with any association at all with Port, its plain that your opinion on such a topic simply doesn't count.

Crows will assess their options for the best player at full forward. The will pick the player with the best form.

At the moment, the only thing to go on is the relative form of these two in SANFL company. On this basis, Richardson (even overweight) would be a better option than Bienke. Just going on SANFL returns. As soon as this changes, Crows preferred selection would change.

I'd be very interested to know how you can support a view that Bienke would be a better bet at FF when Richardson has outscored Bienke when both played that position at the same time in SANFL. Do try to support you opinion with something other than ... I like the look of this player better than that player.

We all well know by now how absolutely wonky your judgement of players actually is, Macca.

Macca19

14 Mar 2001, 20:18

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Frankly Macca, given some of the opinions on players you have sprouted in the past, and in particular your assesment of players on Crows list relative to players with any association at all with Port, its plain that your opinion on such a topic simply doesn't count.

Crows will assess their options for the best player at full forward. The will pick the player with the best form.

At the moment, the only thing to go on is the relative form of these two in SANFL company. On this basis, Richardson (even overweight) would be a better option than Bienke. Just going on SANFL returns. As soon as this changes, Crows preferred selection would change.

I'd be very interested to know how you can support a view that Bienke would be a better bet at FF when Richardson has outscored Bienke when both played that position at the same time in SANFL. Do try to support you opinion with something other than ... I like the look of this player better than that player.

We all well know by now how absolutely wonky your judgement of players actually is, Macca.

Ok Smartarse. Seeing as you and everyone else thinks Richardson is the next best thing...we shall see how he goes. We all know your completly bias thru on things.

For a start ********, get things right. Beinke has not played a lot of football at full forward at Port Adelaide. He has played probably 1 1/2 games there. He is a forward pocket or half forward. Check the statistics if you do not believe. But then again what would i know, ive only been to 90% of port magpies games in the alst 4 yeares, how many would you of gone to...3? 4?? In 98 he kicked 39 goals. He started the year as a BACK POCKET...he got drafted to north melbourne as a BACK POCKET, he won a premirship medallion at port in 96 playing in a BACK POCKET. He moved to the forward lines about 2 weeks before the state game which he dominated against WA. He then proceeded to play the rest of the year at Port as a flanker, CHF or forward pocket...not as the main forward option. Hodges, Evans and Phillipou were the main full forwards in 98. On this form he got drafted to the crows. As a hlaf forward. He is too short for a full forward at AFL level. So you are wrong. Richardson has not outscored Beinke at FF, as Beinke has rarely played there.

Beinke has tasted AFL action for two years and has performed reasonably well there. Richardson has not...has slightly dominated a SANFL competition and holds the record as least amount of goals to win the KF Medal.

Tell me crows.ok, tell me what judgements on players are wrong?? You may well think every player on your list is brownlow material, but from outside your blue red and yellow eyes, noone else does.

Beinke is a stronger mark, is quicker, has a better, smarter football brain than richardson. You know there is a problem when richardson ends up at half back for the crows against west coast!! The coach isnt impressed at his lack of effort. As is said, you can train the house down all yo ulike but noone gives a **** how good you look in training. Port supporters know this with Lyle...he wins everything at training, but is useless. Same to be said with Richardson. He is slow, fat, not a strong mark and looks lost so far at AFL level, and does not chase or put in for second efforts.

All in all, I would have Beinke up there even if he isnt a FF, i think Richardson will start there and play most of the year there, but i cant see him doing very well at all. 40 goals max. Beinke is better played on a flank anyway, or a floating forward.

carb70

15 Mar 2001, 10:37

Your best option at FF is that guy who plays at Fremantle, but as we all know that coach who promised to leave your team in a good position for the future but instead jumped the sinking ship deceided it was a good idea not to have Modra around.

As far as Richardson goes he is an abosolute joke and Beinke just isn't a key position player. Beinke is best suited in the pocket or the flank were he can run around and take marks he is not a key target who is going to lead out and take marks. So in other words you are in trouble. Every team that has won back to back premierships in the last 30 years has won another premiership within 8 years but thanks to Malcolm that will not happen at Crowland. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

ant

15 Mar 2001, 11:52

Originally posted by carb70:
Every team that has won back to back premierships in the last 30 years has won another premiership within 8 years but thanks to Malcolm that will not happen at Crowland. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

Carb, these words ring a bell???

"I remember walking out of Football Park that day amused at the at the pathetic looks the Crows supporters had on their faces some were even close to tears. No Crow supporter would of predicted that day that within 18 months you would have 2 premierships.

So just lose that we are better than you attitude because it doesn't take much to turn a season from disater to glory. "

Your words Carb. That second paragraph should be redirected at you. You better lose that attitude buddy cause an Ansett Cup Grand Final doesn't make your season. And the Crows could very well win a another premiership soon, which of course you so readily dismiss. I'd back us to win one over your mob any day.

carb70

15 Mar 2001, 12:14

Ant does this mean anything to you,

1.Darren Jarman 34 years of age
2.Nigel Smart 32
3.Matthew Robran 30
4.Mark Bickley 32
5.Shaun Rehn Hawthorn
6.Tony Modra Fremantle
7.Peter Caven Retired
8.Pathetic Pittman Retired
9.Johnson and Burton can't put 2 games together without getting injured
10.No quality ruckmen
11.No quality fowards
12.Recruting in recent years has been poor
13.Coach is Gary Ayers not Malcolm Blight

ant

15 Mar 2001, 13:07

In reply to your post Carb

Four old players isn't too bad, I wouldn't regard them, except Robran maybe, as key players.

Rehn was over the hill, good riddance. Modra can't kick a goal with Freo so far this year, however would have liked to have gotten more for him.

Caven and Pittman have been well and truly replaced, no worries there.

As for Johnson and Burton, Johnson has put a couple of games together so far this year, and Burton had one year (last year) completely disrupted by injuries. Just wait and see. Like a Port fan can talk......

Our ruck trio of Clarke, Biglands and Marsh is favourable with any in the competition. Granted, them don't dominate around the ground but very good at centre bounces. I'll take them over a combo of Primus and French.

Forward area is far from a strength, agreed, but with our quality midfield kicking goals themselves, I'm sure a mix of Robran, Jarman, Hewitt, Richo, Vardy, Burton, Bode, Welsh can kick enough goals. In 1998 we didn't really have a key forward either, Jarman best with 45 or so.

Ayres isn't the best but is serviceable. Malcolm Blight he is not, but he's not Mark Williams either.

I could come up with a list twice as long for Port but I'm just off to have dinner.

Crows.ok

15 Mar 2001, 17:33

Originally posted by ant:
In reply to your post Carb

Four old players isn't too bad, I wouldn't regard them, except Robran maybe, as key players.

Rehn was over the hill, good riddance. Modra can't kick a goal with Freo so far this year, however would have liked to have gotten more for him.

Caven and Pittman have been well and truly replaced, no worries there.

As for Johnson and Burton, Johnson has put a couple of games together so far this year, and Burton had one year (last year) completely disrupted by injuries. Just wait and see. Like a Port fan can talk......

Our ruck trio of Clarke, Biglands and Marsh is favourable with any in the competition. Granted, them don't dominate around the ground but very good at centre bounces. I'll take them over a combo of Primus and French.

Forward area is far from a strength, agreed, but with our quality midfield kicking goals themselves, I'm sure a mix of Robran, Jarman, Hewitt, Richo, Vardy, Burton, Bode, Welsh can kick enough goals. In 1998 we didn't really have a key forward either, Jarman best with 45 or so.

Ayres isn't the best but is serviceable. Malcolm Blight he is not, but he's not Mark Williams either.

I could come up with a list twice as long for Port but I'm just off to have dinner.

This is about the size of it, ant.

Macca: If one player gets more goals than another, then the forst has otscored the other. By definition. If Richo is the Ken Farmer medalist, then he is the top scorer in the SANFL. By definition, regardless if that total is lower than in other years. If Bienke's own SANFL club won't play him at FF, why the heck should Crows play him there over a bloke who is a FF? Note for the terminally stupid: this does not mean Crows should not play Bienke. It means only that he is not as good a choice at FF as Richo. Or probably even Bassett, who seems to be the next in line if Richo doesn't come up to standard. Not Bienke.

Even if Richo plays at his current erratic unproductive rate, 5 goals in his last two games, that would be 50 for the year. Thats a lot better than Ports best goalscorer last year.

Carb70: It is possible to make a list of negatives for Crows. Even Sheehan in the Herald Sun has had a go at it, but like you got it mostly wrong. It is also possible to make positives out of those negatives. For instance, you are not self-consistent if you try to make a negative out of some older players still in the squad (Jarman, Bickley etc) and also make a negative out of other older players having retired (Pittman, Caven). Thats trying to have your cake and eat it.

McGregor this year at CHB will be an improvement (and hence a positive) over Caven in 99 and 2000. Clarke will be better at the ruck taps (but less useful around the ground) than Rehn, and will be less disruptive of team harmony. Crowell looks set for a real positive contribution this year at FB, more so than he was able to contribute last year as a rookie at FF. Hewitt and/or Robran will be a better option at CHF than was McGregor last year. And so on.

Perhaps Ayres (or maybe he got help from Craig) is not such a dud if he can re-cast some players in new roles and gain improvement thereby.

With luck Burton and Johnson (and Stevens for that matter) should be able to play more games than last year, it would be drastically unlucky to miss as many this year as well.

As I say ... it all depends on how you look at it.

But I must say, it does get a bit tiresome having Port dunderheads repeatedly come on this board and bag Crows. Haven't you got anything better to do, like lust after a practice cup or something?

Nah, your lot will probably be the runners up, and suffer the runners up curse. Justice!

15 Mar 2001, 17:55

crows ok, thanks for your essay

LOL http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
"I came here to win, I am a winner" - Denzel Washington , Remember The Titans ; 2000

Macca19

15 Mar 2001, 19:23

Originally posted by ant:
In reply to your post Carb

Our ruck trio of Clarke, Biglands and Marsh is favourable with any in the competition. Granted, them don't dominate around the ground but very good at centre bounces. I'll take them over a combo of Primus and French.

Sorry ant but cant agree with this. It was the ruck division of Primus and French against Biglands and Clarke that dominated you in the last showdown last year, and that ruck division also dominated against you in the first showdown as well. Primus is one of the best all round ruckmen in the league, Frnech is average, add Lade and that would be one of the best in the league.

Clarke - used to be the best ruckmen in teh league cum 1995...last year coulda been the worst year by a ruckmen ever...he CAN play a LOT better.
Biglands - played admirably last year, but wondering if he can handle being number 1 ruckmen

Marsh - dont make me laugh!!! One good game does not make a good player. He has shown NOTHING for three years...he is struggling at West Adelaide and will struggle to make their league side let alone the crows.

Replace Marsh with maybe Robran then its a fair ruck division. I would NOT say up there with the best in the league, but mid table for sure.

16 Mar 2001, 04:17

Back to the original topic, The aspect of our forward play that annoyed me most last year was the ease with which opposition defenders were able to body our forwards our of contests, take easy marks and run the ball out. This was also a big problem against Carlton in the AC this year.

The big benefit of having Richo up forward is that hopefully he will have the strength to compete for most of the balls coming in and if he doesn't mark, at least he can bring the ball to ground and give Bode, Vardy, Welsh and co. an opportunity.

I would love to know the percentage of times we entered the forward 50 against the number of scoring shots last year. It would be pitiful.

If Richo can kick around 50-60 goals and create extra opportunities then he would have been well worth it.

carb70

16 Mar 2001, 07:58

Ant, Clarke, Biglands and Marsh put together don't come anywhere near Primus. Primus is a workhorse and he will bust his guts all day if he has to.

Crowsok, it not a list of negatives, its a list of facts. I wasn't having a go at these players. I was just stating the ages of these players because they have been the backbone of your side for many years and I was just wondering who the replacements will be in the years to come.

Finally I think its a disgrace the way you guys play down the fact Rehn has left your club and how its not a big loss, especially ant saying he was over the hill , good riddance. Rehn was your greatest ever player and without him you wouldn't have won your 2 premierships. I would glady have Rehn in my team at Port any day.

carb70

16 Mar 2001, 08:30

Originally posted by Spogs:

The big benefit of having Richo up forward is that hopefully he will have the strength to compete for most of the balls coming in and if he doesn't mark, at least he can bring the ball to ground and give Bode, Vardy, Welsh and co. an opportunity.

I would love to know the percentage of times we entered the forward 50 against the number of scoring shots last year. It would be pitiful.

If Richo can kick around 50-60 goals and create extra opportunities then he would have been well worth it.

Spogs how can you expect Richo to kick 50-60 goals in the AFL. He will be lucky to kick between 20-30 goals at that level.

He didn't even dominate at SANFL level where he was bigger and stronger than most fullbacks. How do you expect him to go against guys in the AFL who are just as big and as storng if not more bigger and stronger than him.

16 Mar 2001, 08:54

Carb,

I can't remember seing Richo play SANFL so I'm only going on what I've been told. He can obviously kick a goal as the leading SANFL goalkicker for the past three years. Beinke is not a genuine full forward although I do like him in the side.

We picked Richo to kick goals this year. I didn't say I think he will nessesarily, but for the crows to half a half decent year I think he has to.

ant

16 Mar 2001, 11:46

Originally posted by carb70:
Ant, Clarke, Biglands and Marsh put together don't come anywhere near Primus. Primus is a workhorse and he will bust his guts all day if he has to.

Crowsok, it not a list of negatives, its a list of facts. I wasn't having a go at these players. I was just stating the ages of these players because they have been the backbone of your side for many years and I was just wondering who the replacements will be in the years to come.

Finally I think its a disgrace the way you guys play down the fact Rehn has left your club and how its not a big loss, especially ant saying he was over the hill , good riddance. Rehn was your greatest ever player and without him you wouldn't have won your 2 premierships. I would glady have Rehn in my team at Port any day.

The fact is Carb that after 3 knee reconstructions Rehn isn't the same player, especially with the last injury being to his jumping leg. I can't see him getting back to his former glory and the young ruck trio I mentioned is a better bet than some an aging champion who's lost it (Bode will be handy too). Now Rehn wanted to leave Adelaide, it was his choice, so I say good riddance. If he doesn't want to play for our great club then fine, go somewhere else. He WAS a champion player for the Crows but times change. And by the way, any number of players were just as integral to our premiership years, I don't think Rehn was the main reason for us winning the flag. One of the reasons, but not the absolute key factor.

As for Primus, I congratulate him on his work ethic but worth three players?? Get stuffed!! He's not highly skilled (actually he's unco) and tires just like anybody. To say he's better than Marsh, Clarke and Biglands combined is ludicrous. However, you're entitled to your opinion so you and your Port buddies can think what you want.

Macca19

16 Mar 2001, 14:19

Originally posted by ant:

Rehn isn't the same player, I can't see him getting back to his former glory and the young ruck trio I mentioned is a better bet than some an aging champion who's lost it

As for Primus, I congratulate him on his work ethic but worth three players?? Get stuffed!! He's not highly skilled (actually he's unco) and tires just like anybody. To say he's better than Marsh, Clarke and Biglands combined is ludicrous.

The first part of the quote up above sounds a lot like Jarman doesnt it! Minus the ruck bit! Yet you still persist with him, and i would say Jarmans skill level would be on par with Rehns.

The second thing...yes Primus has a very unorthodox kicking style, but it is effective. And its not like the crows cant talk. The shit ability of their big men has been funny at times. Patterson, Bartlett, Pittman and Biglands. Biglands isnt half as skillful as primus.
I wouldnt say Primus is better than Marsh Clarke and Biglands...But i would much rather JUST have Primus that a highly overrated ruckmen/forward who played one good game in 3 years (Marsh) and Biglands who has some potential.
Clarke and Primus would be a reasonable duo, and a lot better than Clarke Marsh Biglands.

Crows.ok

16 Mar 2001, 16:46

Originally posted by carb70:
Ant, Clarke, Biglands and Marsh put together don't come anywhere near Primus. Primus is a workhorse and he will bust his guts all day if he has to.

carb70 this is over the top. Primus is better than Clarke, Biglands or Marsh but not better than all three. If Primus gets an injury, even the flu for a week, there is one game that Port will likely lose that they might have won. At least with Crows three ruckmen there is some chance of a second option.

Crowsok, it not a list of negatives, its a list of facts. I wasn't having a go at these players. I was just stating the ages of these players because they have been the backbone of your side for many years and I was just wondering who the replacements will be in the years to come.

It sure read like an attempt at a list of negatives. But as my reply said, each of the elements of your list has a replacement. McGregor at CHB for Caven. Clarke for Rehn (we lose a bit here compared with Rehns best form, but we don't lose anything compared with his form last year). Biglands for Pittman. And so on. Each of the items on the list has a replacement, and this year a better option than the same position last year.

Finally I think its a disgrace the way you guys play down the fact Rehn has left your club and how its not a big loss, especially ant saying he was over the hill , good riddance. Rehn was your greatest ever player and without him you wouldn't have won your 2 premierships. I would glady have Rehn in my team at Port any day.

Rehn at his best was a champion. Don't forget that Crows invested a great deal of loyalty into Rehn, at least as much as he repaid Crows. Rehn was carried by Crows through three knee reconstructions and a very unproductive year last year. Then he walked out.

There is a certain amount of give and take involved here, and by no means was in Rehn who did all the give. And its not the Crows who lacked any loyalty in the final analysis. I don't say good riddance to Rehn (even though Rehn effectively said that to Crows), but I do note that Crows don't lose a lot from last years performances with his moving on to another club.

Macca19

16 Mar 2001, 17:01

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Clarke for Rehn (we lose a bit here compared with Rehns best form, but we don't lose anything compared with his form last year).

Well how can you say this?? Rehn, altho he played badly last year, still played about 10 times better than what Clarke did last year!! Your talls are a problem...Biglands would be first choice, Clarke IF he can produce half a good as year as he had in brisbane for a few years he will be great...Marsh isnt worth two lumps of crap. If you lose one...then there is a hole. Unless Angwin proves something.

Crows.ok

16 Mar 2001, 17:12

Originally posted by Macca19:
Well how can you say this?? Rehn, altho he played badly last year, still played about 10 times better than what Clarke did last year!! Your talls are a problem...Biglands would be first choice, Clarke IF he can produce half a good as year as he had in brisbane for a few years he will be great...Marsh isnt worth two lumps of crap. If you lose one...then there is a hole. Unless Angwin proves something.

Its easy. Rehn last year was not playing well, but nevertheless better than Clarke was. Last year Clarke was a dead loss.

Clarke this year is playing better (at the moment anyway) than was Rehn last year.

Whats so difficult about that? It shouldn't be too hard to grasp, even for someone who is slow on the uptake.

I typed it slowly so you could read it OK, Macca.

ant

16 Mar 2001, 18:32

Macca, Rehn's skill level on a par with Jarman?? That's poor judgement even for yourself. It's so senseless I'm not even going to talk about it anymore.

Our talls will be a strength this year I reckon, Clarke back to his best, Biglands improving, Marsh handy backup. What happens if Primus goes down?? French will have to lead the ruck. And the Crows have problems with our talls. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif You could be relying on a rower to be your ruckman!!! Sure it's all hypothetical but we've got no problems with our tall men and plenty of depth. But thanks for your input though Macca, most insightful.

Crows.ok, typing it slowly helps, but you really musn't use too large words, it only confuses them.

Macca19

16 Mar 2001, 18:50

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Clarke this year is playing better (at the moment anyway) than was Rehn last year.

Whats so difficult about that? It shouldn't be too hard to grasp, even for someone who is slow on the uptake.

I typed it slowly so you could read it OK, Macca.

For a start you never mentioned ONCE before that Clarke was playing better than rehn was last year. You show me where you wrote that and i will apologise for being ignorant.
Please, dont mention my intelligence level again. You do not know me, and have no idea how intelligent i am

CrowGaz

16 Mar 2001, 19:21

I think(hope) that Richo will do well this year, as long as he can remain injury free. He has a strong physical presence, something that Adelaide have missed in the past few years.
But, he does seem to be a bit of a confidence player, when he's up he can be very good, but when he's down, you may as well forget him.
I hope he's given a reasonable chance this year and hope he does well.

Go The Crows!

Don't forget to visit my Crows site: http://go.to/adelaidecrows

carb70

17 Mar 2001, 08:06

Originally posted by ant:

As for Primus, I congratulate him on his work ethic but worth three players?? Get stuffed!! He's not highly skilled (actually he's unco) and tires just like anybody. To say he's better than Marsh, Clarke and Biglands combined is ludicrous. However, you're entitled to your opinion so you and your Port buddies can think what you want.

Ant if I was offered Marsh, Clarke and Biglands in a trade for Primus I would never accept it not in a million years. To say he is not highly skilled is a bit stupid. Just because he has a awkward kicking style it doesn't mean he is not skilled. Infact his skill level has greatly improved over the years, he is a much better mark and kick now than he used to be . He is also capable of runnig foward now and being marking and goalkicking target in our foward lines. Finally I don't know any other ruckman in the league that has the same level of fitness and strength as Primus and for a big man his evasive skills and his ability to break takles is exceptional.

[This message has been edited by carb70 (edited 16 March 2001).]

ant

17 Mar 2001, 11:20

Carb, by the same token, I wouldn't even consider trading Biglands, Clarke and Marsh for Primus. I'd be the laughing stock of the league if I went ahead with that trade. Just a personal opinion of course.

Crows.ok

17 Mar 2001, 14:34

Originally posted by Macca19:
For a start you never mentioned ONCE before that Clarke was playing better than rehn was last year. You show me where you wrote that and i will apologise for being ignorant.
Please, dont mention my intelligence level again. You do not know me, and have no idea how intelligent i am

Actually, I twice mentioned I thought that Crows would not lose anything with Clarke this year compared with Rehn last year.

But I suppose you are correct in that that does not directly say the Clarke at the moment was playing better than Rehn last year. Close as dammit, but not a direct statement.

You are also right that I don't know you. I might be able to make some assumptions from your apparent grammar and vocabulary, but they would only be assumptions.

So heres the deal. I will try to avoid any further slur on your assumed IQ, but you have got to help me out. Heres how: don't post anything else stupid. In particular, don't post baseless nonsensical and downright idiotic attempts to slur Crows players or Crows chances on a Crows message board.

Then I will be able to desist. Is it a deal?

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 15:56

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Actually, I twice mentioned I thought that Crows would not lose anything with Clarke this year compared with Rehn last year.

But I suppose you are correct in that that does not directly say the Clarke at the moment was playing better than Rehn last year. Close as dammit, but not a direct statement.

You are also right that I don't know you. I might be able to make some assumptions from your apparent grammar and vocabulary, but they would only be assumptions.

So heres the deal. I will try to avoid any further slur on your assumed IQ, but you have got to help me out. Heres how: don't post anything else stupid. In particular, don't post baseless nonsensical and downright idiotic attempts to slur Crows players or Crows chances on a Crows message board.

Then I will be able to desist. Is it a deal?

For a start...when have i not followed up one of my posts with a reason as why i believe what i wrote?? Please show me where.

I do not troll on this board..i say my opinion, if that comes off as a troll, then thats not my problem.

Just for the record my IQ is 111 according to emode.

Crows.ok

17 Mar 2001, 16:41

Originally posted by Macca19:

For a start...when have i not followed up one of my posts with a reason as why i believe what i wrote?? Please show me where.

I'll just take a couple from this very thread, shall I?

"Biglands isnt half as skillful as primus."

No backup. Not necessarily wrong, but typical of you. Primus is one of the more awkward looking players I have seen, but effective. Biglands looks far more mobile & agile, but lacks judgement. Judgement can come with time, awkwardness generally doesn't go away with time.

"Yet you still persist with him" (Jarman).

Jarman will be worth about 30 goals if he plays forward. He will get at least a few BOG this year, meaning he will be better than all of Crows players and all of the opposition players for those couple of games. He will be in the best players list for Crows on about five occasions. See if I'm not right. If he doesn't perform, he won't be picked. If he does perform, why shouldn't Crows "persist" with him?

I do not troll on this board..i say my opinion, if that comes off as a troll, then thats not my problem.

Yeah, right. Its your problem if your opinion is persistently and irrationally anti-Crows and you insist on posting it on a Crows message board. Nasty people like I will reply and show you up.

Just for the record my IQ is 111 according to emode.

emode had better check their software. Or perhaps flattery is their thing?

So, one last troll post where you did not "followed up one of my posts with a reason as why i believe what i wrote" (sic)

"i would say Jarmans skill level would be on par with Rehns".

Perhaps emode meant 11.1 ?

[This message has been edited by Crows.ok (edited 16 March 2001).]

ant

17 Mar 2001, 17:02

Crows.ok, Emode said my IQ was 114. I'm a little worried now, it's too close to Macca's for my liking.

Crows.ok

17 Mar 2001, 17:06

Originally posted by ant:
Crows.ok, Emode said my IQ was 114. I'm a little worried now, it's too close to Macca's for my liking.

Must be some problem somewhere, ant. Perhpas I should offer to debug their site?

Crows.ok

17 Mar 2001, 17:33

Definately a bug at emode. I only got 123.

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 17:42

No, Biglands isnt half as skillful as Primus. If you ****ing READ My post, you would see i wrote that Primus was awkward, but his kicks go in the general direction of forward. Biglands...i wrote he has potential..which he does, but he does some really stupid things and his kicking aint great.
I wrote two years ago i think on the newsgroup that Jarman will still be at the crows till he is 39 because the crows are too afriad to get rid of him. Rehn is ALSO a potential match winner, and BOG player, and is more CONSISTENT than a player that plays three great games a year and a whole lot of shit ones.
Im sure Rehn would of been in the best players 5 times as well. Most players who play 16+ games average in the best players about 5 or 5 timers a year. Where have i disagreed with you?

Irrationly and persistently anti crows?? Tell me ONE Pro Port thing you have ever written. ****ing hypocrit.
Dont tell me what my opinion should be...i think Marsh is a useless piece of shit, i think Jarman will still be at adelaide in 2004, i think you will come below 13th this year. That is MY opinion...just like most of your opinions about port topics are negative. Show me up...good luck.

One other thing ********...take an IQ test, lets see what you get smartarse...think your so ****ing clever. if you read the quote about Jarman, which you plainly took out of context, you would see what im getting at. You mentioned "Rehn isnt the same player...cant see him getting back to his former glory...young trio better than an aging champion"
I seem to think some other players should be in place of Jarmans place. He isnt the same player, he wont return to his former glory.

Please do not insult my intelligence again. It is a t ypical crow supporter unneccesary personal attack...or is that how you try to win arguments, by getting personal rather than talking facts?

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 17:43

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Definately a bug at emode. I only got 123.

what an egotistical wanker. You seriously have an ego problem...."I only have 123" well arent you ****ing special. ****wit

17 Mar 2001, 17:44

Wel at emode my IQ was 93, what does this tell ya????? HAHAHAHAHA http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/cool.gif

------------------
"I came here to win, I am a winner" - Denzel Washington , Remember The Titans ; 2000

Crows.ok

17 Mar 2001, 18:03

Originally posted by Macca19:
what an egotistical wanker. You seriously have an ego problem...."I only have 123" well arent you ****ing special. ****wit

Hey, I successfully anticipated your challenge "take an IQ test, lets see what you get smartarse" and you got burnt over it.

Tough titties.

"Rehn is ALSO a potential match winner, and BOG player, and is more CONSISTENT than a player that plays three great games a year and a whole lot of shit ones."

Even if this were all 100% correct, (which it is not) your statement that Rehns skill is on a par with Jarmans is still a million miles off the mark. Find out what skill actually is, and get back to me.

You still don't get it, do you?

The only reason you are copping it from all sides is that this board is a Crows board.

Post your stuff on the main board, or on Powers board, you are fine.

Come here on this board and dump on Crows players, its open season mate! Persist, and sadly even personal attacks may ensue.

That you did not realise this, after being told and warned several times over, only reinforces the uncharitable assertions being made against you.

Macca, no-one minds discussion. Its what these boards are for.

But dumping on Crows players on this board clearly will not be tolerated!

I hope thats plain enough for you. I sincerely hope this message gets through to you. I do not like to have a go at you, but it does seem to be the only way to get your attention.

[This message has been edited by Crows.ok (edited 16 March 2001).]

Crows.ok

17 Mar 2001, 18:27

PS Macca, find out who posted "Primus is better than Clarke, Biglands or Marsh" and "Lade is a very good player" and get back to me.

Now find some quotes where I dumped on Port players.

You will find plenty of assertion from me that "this player is as good as that one" or "this player is a champion" or "Ports best goalscorer last year got 30-odd goals" ... none of this is dumping on any players.

"The shit ability of their big men has been funny at times."

"played about 10 times better than what Clarke did last year". Ten times Macca?

"Marsh isnt worth two lumps of crap".

He is not in form, true, but really Macca ... and you didn't expect any reaction?

I could go on (and on and on like you), but perhaps the message is starting to get through? We can live in hope.

17 Mar 2001, 18:32

Now relax PPL

No need for fightin here....
or is there?.......... http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/wink.gif

------------------
"I came here to win, I am a winner" - Denzel Washington , Remember The Titans ; 2000

Crows.ok

17 Mar 2001, 18:38

PPS:

Macca claimed (of moi) "You mentioned "Rehn isnt the same player...cant see him getting back to his former glory...young trio better than an aging champion"

Not me Macca, I never posted anything like such a statement.

Its damaging to try to build up an arguement only to have it fail dismally because of a misquote.

As for good luck on showing you up ... thanks, I'm having a pretty good run.

Shall I keep going or would you like to take the hint and call a truce?

ant

17 Mar 2001, 18:53

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
PPS:

Macca claimed (of moi) "You mentioned "Rehn isnt the same player...cant see him getting back to his former glory...young trio better than an aging champion"

Not me Macca, I never posted anything like such a statement.

Its damaging to try to build up an arguement only to have it fail dismally because of a misquote.

As for good luck on showing you up ... thanks, I'm having a pretty good run.

Shall I keep going or would you like to take the hint and call a truce?

Crows.ok 542
Macca 1

You're pissing all over Macca now Crows.ok, it's not a fair fight. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif You pretty much said all I am feeling, very well summed up. I sick to death of getting our players bagged by Port fans on the Crows board. And they expect not to be abused...... http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

17 Mar 2001, 18:58

YEA!!!

CARN THE CROWS!!!

------------------
"I came here to win, I am a winner" - Denzel Washington , Remember The Titans ; 2000

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 19:02

ant

17 Mar 2001, 19:11

Please do not insult my intelligence again. It is a typical crow supporter unneccesary personal attack...or is that how you try to win arguments, by getting personal rather than talking facts?

Go have a cry Macca, cause you're getting abused by Crow fans. As for getting personal, you're the king of turning a discussion into an argument all with addition of a "god, you're a ********" to your posts. LOL. You call other people hypocrictical......

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 19:12

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
Hey, I successfully anticipated your challenge "take an IQ test, lets see what you get smartarse" and you got burnt over it.

Tough titties.

"Rehn is ALSO a potential match winner, and BOG player, and is more CONSISTENT than a player that plays three great games a year and a whole lot of shit ones."

Even if this were all 100% correct, (which it is not) your statement that Rehns skill is on a par with Jarmans is still a million miles off the mark. Find out what skill actually is, and get back to me.

You still don't get it, do you?

The only reason you are copping it from all sides is that this board is a Crows board.

Post your stuff on the main board, or on Powers board, you are fine.

Come here on this board and dump on Crows players, its open season mate! Persist, and sadly even personal attacks may ensue.

That you did not realise this, after being told and warned several times over, only reinforces the uncharitable assertions being made against you.

Macca, no-one minds discussion. Its what these boards are for.

But dumping on Crows players on this board clearly will not be tolerated!

I hope thats plain enough for you. I sincerely hope this message gets through to you. I do not like to have a go at you, but it does seem to be the only way to get your attention.

[This message has been edited by Crows.ok (edited 16 March 2001).]

Ive got no quarms that you got a higher iq than me. We are both higher than the average human iq of 100.

Jarman is the most inconcsistent footballer ive ever seen play. He can go from kicking 9 goals one week, to getting 2 kicks the next...then goes missing for amonth, then bursts back into life with a 5 goal match winning BOG performance only to go missing again.
If you think he is consistent, then good ofr you, but you must get your blinkered eyes off first.

You see this is where typical crows supporters like yourself go overboard. "persist, and personal insults may insue"....simply because i refuse to let some ignorant person tell me what my opinion should be?? How typical...have to get personal dont you!! Cant defend your club or players with STATISTICS, have to do it with personal insults. That is LOW...real low!! I didnt think youd be one to stopp to that level, but i guess i was wrong. Bigger fool me!

I have not resorted to tasteless personal insults about peoples intelligence on this board. All i have done is simply state my opinion, that Rehn was of equal if not more importance to jarman in the crows line up, which crows supporters are quick to forget, that beinke is a better bet than richo, and that clarke, biglands, marsh being one of the best ruck duos in the league is rubbish.
It was your perogative to insult my intelligence instead of posting facts to prove me wrong...you had to go personal...whether that means im right or not is a nother thing...what it does mean is you are weak

ant

17 Mar 2001, 19:18

Originally posted by Macca19:

I didnt think youd be one to stopp to that level, but i guess i was wrong. Bigger fool me!

I have not resorted to tasteless personal insults about peoples intelligence on this board.

No Macca, you just call everybody a ********. That's not tasteless.

ant

17 Mar 2001, 19:35

Crows.ok and Crow54, do you want to ask to be a moderator?? I reckon you should, Bluey might let you if you ask.

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 19:44

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
PS Macca, find out who posted "Primus is better than Clarke, Biglands or Marsh" and "Lade is a very good player" and get back to me.

Now find some quotes where I dumped on Port players.
"played about 10 times better than what Clarke did last year". Ten times Macca?

"Marsh isnt worth two lumps of crap".

He is not in form, true, but really Macca ... and you didn't expect any reaction?

I could go on (and on and on like you), but perhaps the message is starting to get through? We can live in hope.

For a start, please do not take my quotes out of context. The Clarke quote above is in metnion to rehn, who i thought last year played 10 times better than clarke.

Looking at some statistics from last year...Rehn was statistically your best player in kicks, marks, handballs and goals.
He was the only crows ruckmen to average more than 10 possesions a game (13.06..nearest rival Biglands had 8). Clarke is statistically the worst ruckmen last year in every statistical category, and averaged only 6 possesions a game.

Just to prove to you more, just how dominant Rehn actually was last year compared to other ruckmen in your side
Rehn bsaically tripled all of Clarkes averages for last year (other than marks which was 2.75 per game more).

The only player that came close to Rehns statistics was Biglands and he played 2 more games than Rehn. Rehn really didnt have THAT bad a year last year...its crows supporters overly high expectation of him.

So yes, Clarke did have a shitter of a year last year.
Marsh had JUST a better year...i think he is crap. For someone who Crows fans and SA media think is the saviour of Adelaides rucking and forward problems...he would want to stand up soon.
He played 3 good games in 98, and that has been it. I hav enot seen anything to suggest he will be better than Biglands, Clarke, Rehn, or even Barny French, Lade and Primus.
He has been unfairly overrated by everyone to do with adelaide. Remember, he has only played 22 games...thats not a lot...and he has played 3 or 4 good ones.
There was an article about him in the advertiser during the week..you should seriously read it http://www.afl.com.au/news/story_215258.htm

thats the link. It sums up beautifully what i have been thinking of him for the last ywo years. Everyone keeps saying "he is great, he will be the answer to our forward structure, just wait, youll see"...well ive been seeing for two years and nothing. 1 good game does not make a great player. Look at Stuart Wigney for that example.

Sorry for over exagerating witht the ten times...statistically its three times better. My mistake. You are damn right Marsh isnt in form...when is he gonna be IN form?? Please tell me...im dead serious. I think this player has been unfairly marked as "potential superstar" on his debut game where he kicked 3 goals.

Here are the complete stats if you wanna know:
Name Games K M H Goals Ave.poss

Rehn 16 117 67 92 14 13.06
Clarke 8 27 22 27 2 6.75
Biglands 18 109 44 37 4 8
Marsh 12 48 35 37 5 7

there you go

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 20:00

just something more on those crows statistics and the claim made by Carb that Primus is better than Clarke Marsh Biglands put together.

These are Primus and Frenchs stats for 2000

Name Games K M H Goals Ave.Poss
Primus 21 124 79 163 12 13.6
French 17 70 47 78 3 8.7

Just another thing on the Primus better than your 3.
On last years statistics...Primus was better than your three combined.

I shall Call Biglands/Marsh/Clarke "the cartel"

The Cartel played 17 more games than Primus, had only 60 more kicks than him, 22 more marks, and 62 LESS handballs, and also 1 less goal.
Primus ended up with 287 possesions for the year, while The Cartel had 285 combined possesions.
Primus kicked 12 goals, the Cartel kicked 11. Primus had 13 average touches, while the cartel averaged 7.5 each.

I know what id rather have! Id rather have Primus who can do the work of three of your ruckmen, while also having a backup in French and Lade/Morgan.
Take out of that what you will, but the STATS PROVE Primus was better.

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 20:03

Originally posted by Crows.ok:
PPS:

Macca claimed (of moi) "You mentioned "Rehn isnt the same player...cant see him getting back to his former glory...young trio better than an aging champion"

Not me Macca, I never posted anything like such a statement.

Its damaging to try to build up an arguement only to have it fail dismally because of a misquote.

As for good luck on showing you up ... thanks, I'm having a pretty good run.

Shall I keep going or would you like to take the hint and call a truce?

I apologise for unfairly marking you with that quote. It was Ant who wrote that Rehn was not the player he used to be etc. etc.
Now please tell me how you have "showed me up" huh?? Id love to see your argument on that one?
Seeing as i just proved that Rehn was better than all your ruckmen last year, was three times better than clarke statistically, and that marsh had a shitter. And also just proved that Primus is worth the same statistically as three of your ruckmen put together. So please Crows.ok....how have you showed me up??
Get into some stats and try to argue with them instead of petty personal insults.

Macca19

17 Mar 2001, 20:06

Originally posted by ant:

Crows.ok 542
Macca 1

You're pissing all over Macca now Crows.ok, it's not a fair fight. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif You pretty much said all I am feeling, very well summed up. I sick to death of getting our players bagged by Port fans on the Crows board. And they expect not to be abused...... http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/rolleyes.gif

i dont expect not to be abused. but then again, i am only stating an opinion, and am not purposly attempting tot roll. It IS of my opinion that Marsh is unfairly overrated by all crows fans and media. It is of my opinion Richardosn wont do to well this yaer for a few reasons.
Seeing as ive just proved you and crowsok wrong on the two main points why we are arguing here, i think my "score" should go up a bit thanx!! http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/wink.gif

ant

17 Mar 2001, 20:11

Macca, I admire your persistence. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif

The thing is Macca, you're bit forceful with your opinions, eg. Marsh is crap, etc.....
I find that a little hard to take sometimes in the Crows board. Why don't you come into chat??

Crows.ok

18 Mar 2001, 12:45

Originally posted by ant:
Macca, I admire your persistence. http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif

The thing is Macca, you're bit forceful with your opinions, eg. Marsh is crap, etc.....
I find that a little hard to take sometimes in the Crows board. Why don't you come into chat??

The thing about Macca is, as an example, he claims "10 times better" then goes to a lot of trouble to come up with stats which show no such thing, then thinks he has somehow scored some points?

Macca, you have still missed the point.

None of the people posting on this thread to my knowledge have gone on the Power board and bagged Power players.

As far as I can tell, none of them have even dumped on Power players here on the Crows board. I for one have not dumped on Power or its players, and I'm fairly confident ... neither have other Crows fans. Especially ... not on the Power board.

Its all you Macca. You have come onto the Crows board and dumped on Crows players and crows chances for the season proper. With absolutely no provocation - no-one doing anything as remotely stupid as that in reverse on the Power board.

Now have a little look at your behaviour in perspective, if you can possibly manage it. Imagine what you might do if a crows fan came on the Power board, trolled away, dumped on players, and posted endlessly that in their opinion, Power would finish in the bottom four.

Be honest with yourself, and tell us what your reaction would be to that poster.

How would you react to your own behaviour if someone were stupid and rude enough to do it to you?

Crow54

19 Mar 2001, 04:12

Originally posted by ant:
Crows.ok and Crow54, do you want to ask to be a moderator?? I reckon you should, Bluey might let you if you ask.

http://www.bigfooty.com/ubb/smile.gif Can you delete threads because they're so boring?

Macca19

19 Mar 2001, 07:34

Originally posted by Crows.ok:

<snip>
How would you react to your own behaviour if someone were stupid and rude enough to do it to you?
For one Crows.ok, YOU have missed the point. I did not come here to troll, and i do not troll, not here, not anywhere, i hate trolls. I stated my opinion on the bienke affair, on the ruckmen issue, and on a number of things. MY opinion.
If someone came onto the Power board and just wrote "Port are shit, your gonna come bottom" then i would abuse this poster. I have not done that...i have stated why my opinion is so, youve taken offence to it and gone personal, in typical crows fashion.
I dont care what you think of the port players, as long as its your opinion and not just a stupid troll then good for you, your allowed your opinion, im allowed mine...i saw a thread involving one of my favourite players so i put input into it, simple as that. Its funny how you havent said anything about the statistics i posted to prove my point. You think Rehn is no loss at all "on last years form" yet he was far and away your best ruckmen.
Not everyone thinks the crows are such a great club, and all their players are sooo great crows.ok. Some actually think they are uquite overrated...you should let people have their opinion.
I actually like a lot of crows players...Mcleod,Stenglien, Beinke...Johnson is a legend, as is Goodwin, Crowell is a great player, and i know Ken Mcgregor personally. They are all great. Its the arrogant, egotistical ********s such as Riccuito, Rehn, Smart, Bickley, Jarman and especially Vardy which get up my nose. They prance around in public with a "Im a crow, you gotta love me" smirk on their faces. That is my opinion. That is not a troll.
You tell me where i have blatantly gone out of my way to cause an argument...as that is a troll. Meaning of a troll is a senseless attack on something someone likes.
For example "Korn are shit, listen to real music" is a troll, whereas "I dont like Korn, i think they are crap because...and also because...and that..." that is not a troll, that is a constructive post. There is a big difference...learn the difference.

Yes i have come here on the crows board...seeing as port have been mentioned on this board a few times before i like to see what everyone writes. Same as i look on the richmond board as well. I post here if i have something to say, not just for the hell of starting an argument.

I suggest we call a truce! agreed?

Crows.ok

20 Mar 2001, 17:59

Macca, I suggested a truce before you did.

You had a personal dig about IQ (Quote: smartarse) before I did.

And finally, as far as I know a troll is a term from usenet and it means making a post which is designed to start flames. In that context, it has not so much to do with the actual content as where it is posted. To use your examples, both "Korn are shit, listen to real music" is a troll, whereas "I dont like Korn, i think they are crap because...and also because...and that..." are trolls if they are posted on usenet on 'alt.fan.korn' but are not trolls if posted on 'alt.music.discussion'. You get the gist.

No-one minds you having an opinion, Macca, and as you say you are perfectly entitled to it, and to voice that opinion. Its just that if your opinion is about bagging Crows players or their chances, this is not the place to post it.

Just as your Port mates have largely avoided dumping on Crows on this board, and just as Crows fans have not posted "Port are shit" on the Power board, where it would be a troll.