Sheeds weekly ramblings - merged

[kelvin_sheedy]

Kelvin that is. ;)

Firstly the positives. Our display was pretty good against a team that has been up and running. We kept on coming but had nothing up forward. Our backline was good and our midfield was very competitive. We are not far off and it only takes one or two quality players to come in (McVeigh, Welsh, Reimers) and we can start winning those type of games.

Now....... our achilles heal which I've developed a formula for:

slow + slow + slow = slow.

That's our forward line and sadly we have two champions that are on the decline and not suited to the modern game - Lloyd and Lucas. There were so many times we had the ball coming out of defence or midfield and the only person giving us a target was McPhee. Lloyd and Lucas struggle to beat there men one on one and can't put any distance between them. Monfries is slow and gives us nothing also.

If we are serious about winning games this year then we can't play Lloyd, Lucas and Neagle in the same side - especially on big grounds.

Disposal wasn't as bad as everyone craps on about. We had a better efficiency then Port. We just lacked mobile targets to punish them.

Houli wasn't as bad as people are going on about. Sure he made a few mistakes but he still was going at %78. Handball and run is the name of the game (see Geelong) and he is one that tries to get things moving.

There was about 4 or 5 dropped marks from fatigue by Lucas and Neagle which was very costly. There chase and effort was also very costly.

Overall a game where we showed a lot of promise. It took them until the last 10 minutes to kill us off.

Players that impressed me were Hocking, Watson, Stanton, Lovett, Fletcher.

There were no injuries to speak of and we have enourmous pressure on spots now because McVeigh, Zaka, Jetta, Atkinson, Myers, Bellchambers are breathing down the necks of those playing.

I can see us giving Freo a 10 goal belting this week. Mark it down.

Things for me looking a lot more positive then a week or so ago. :thumbsu:

[Mr Mosquito]

Good review. I agree with almost everything u say here, however i thought Monfries was pretty good for us. Overall though, not as bad a poeple/media are stating. Plenty of positives.

[Merv]

Kelvin that is. ;)



Thanks god for that.

I was thinking it was going to be your weekly rant on what Sheedy would have done each week.

You were going to be my first person added to my ignore list, which i can now do once i am removed as Mod.

I'm sure you will end up there anyway...

Apart from your Freo prediction your post is a big improvement of your recent ramblings.

[Longy413]

Houli wasn't as bad as people are going on about. Sure he made a few mistakes but he still was going at %78. Handball and run is the name of the game (see Geelong) and he is one that tries to get things moving.

That's only because you only need to have your teammate take the ball for it to be deemed an effective disposal.

He sold his mates into trouble a number of times yesterday by handballing instead of kicking.

In this case, the stat and the reality are miles apart.

[tristo]

Hurley was very impressive.:thumbsu:

Lloyd played a "drifting" role I thought, pretty much went where he wanted leaving only Neagle and Lucas in the forward line.

For mine both need game time, especially Lucas, who just seems rusty at the moment, but there are signs he is working his way out of it.

Reasonable first up showing for the season, pity Port got those late goals to blow the margin out, was closer then the final margin suggested.

[kelvin_sheedy]

That's only because you only need to have your teammate take the ball for it to be deemed an effective disposal.

He sold his mates into trouble a number of times yesterday by handballing instead of kicking.

In this case, the stat and the reality are miles apart.

I didn't think he sold that many into trouble. He tried to create run and the play.

The modern game requires you to have possession and it's better to get tackled and hold the ball in rather than blaze away and give up possession.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Hurley was very impressive.:thumbsu:

Lloyd played a "drifting" role I thought, pretty much went where he wanted leaving only Neagle and Lucas in the forward line.

For mine both need game time, especially Lucas, who just seems rusty at the moment, but there are signs he is working his way out of it.

Reasonable first up showing for the season, pity Port got those late goals to blow the margin out, was closer then the final margin suggested.

Individually they can still play some good football. As a pair I think it might be a liability to the team and structure to have both of them out there with another tall in the forward line.

I think the performance of McPhee highlights their failings and where the modern game is headed. He looked fit, quick and had strong hands. I'd like to see him permanently as the third tall with any two of the big guys.

Maybe Ryder forward as another tall who's got mobility?

[citizen-erased]

ive been sitting here playing with a lineup for Freo (i have the flu and im bored).

i'd like to see this for a formula moving forward

F Monfries Neagle Skipworth
HF Davey McPhee Ryder
C Lloyd Watson McVeigh
HB Nash Myers Houli
B Slattery Hurley Fletcher
R Hille Lovett Stanton
INT-Dyson, Pears, Lucas, Hocking

I like Lloyd in the midfield. and i like McPhee up forward. Ryder and Skipworth gives us good skill and delivery moving forward. Davey is a must for some presence and pressure coming out of our fwd 50.
If McVeigh can return and hook up with Watson, Lovett and Stanton in the middle, and add Lloyd in there, we arent as inexperienced in the middle.
The run from Houli, Myers, Nash, and Slattery, plus Fletcher's nerve and Hurley's skill gives us a good backline.
Rotate Ryder and Hille in the ruck to give us the numbers on the bench to rotate through the middle.
Lucas to be used as a pinch-hitter forward/backline plug a la Roughead/Lucas of old

I think this team can compete and keep us from bottom 4.

[daffo]

I still don't think we are a bottom four side although our kicking skills were very average yesterday. We just need to get the ball to people with a good kick, which will improve when we get McVeigh in next week.
Davey and Lucas will improve a lot from the Port game, both were rusty in the first half but showed a lot in the second.

[High Ryder]

Think Hille probably played his worst game for a while, a few costly turnovers.

Hurley impressive as many people have already stated.
Liked Winderlich's game as well, disapointed with Lonergan's output and would nearly consider dropping him. Lucas will get better with matches, he was getting his hands to balls he'd usually mark and was just rusty. Skipworth did his part as well. Lovett is one of our most important players and despite noone rating Stanton elite, i think he will make that step up this year.

[stay true]

I agree that Houli has the right idea with the handballs thing, but too many times he handballed to team mates that had an opponent on their arse or were flat footed not expecting the ball resulting in turnovers.

With experience will come better decision making.:thumbsu:

[Here_we_come]

Kelvin that is. ;)

Firstly the positives. Our display was pretty good against a team that has been up and running. We kept on coming but had nothing up forward. Our backline was good and our midfield was very competitive. We are not far off and it only takes one or two quality players to come in (McVeigh, Welsh, Reimers) and we can start winning those type of games.

Now....... our achilles heal which I've developed a formula for:

slow + slow + slow = slow.

That's our forward line and sadly we have two champions that are on the decline and not suited to the modern game - Lloyd and Lucas. There were so many times we had the ball coming out of defence or midfield and the only person giving us a target was McPhee. Lloyd and Lucas struggle to beat there men one on one and can't put any distance between them. Monfries is slow and gives us nothing also.

If we are serious about winning games this year then we can't play Lloyd, Lucas and Neagle in the same side - especially on big grounds.

Disposal wasn't as bad as everyone craps on about. We had a better efficiency then Port. We just lacked mobile targets to punish them.

Houli wasn't as bad as people are going on about. Sure he made a few mistakes but he still was going at %78. Handball and run is the name of the game (see Geelong) and he is one that tries to get things moving.

There was about 4 or 5 dropped marks from fatigue by Lucas and Neagle which was very costly. There chase and effort was also very costly.

Overall a game where we showed a lot of promise. It took them until the last 10 minutes to kill us off.

Players that impressed me were Hocking, Watson, Stanton, Lovett, Fletcher.

There were no injuries to speak of and we have enourmous pressure on spots now because McVeigh, Zaka, Jetta, Atkinson, Myers, Bellchambers are breathing down the necks of those playing.

I can see us giving Freo a 10 goal belting this week. Mark it down.

Things for me looking a lot more positive then a week or so ago. :thumbsu:


I agree with most things you said but my god, how quickly people forget.

People said Lloyd was "finished" last year after a string of bad games and he subsequently produced some of the best footy of his career.

He consistently kicks 60+ goals a season in a team that finishes bottom 5 year after year.

To say he is not suited to the modern game after a single bad game is just silly.

And learn how to use their/there/they're correctly, it throws me every time.

[kelvin_sheedy]

A little late here... unplanned outage. ;)

Freo game was probably the worst skilled game I have ever watched. It was shocking. Luckily we were playing Freo as any other side would have belted us. Lets just get the win and move on. Carlton game is the barometer for the year...actually next 3 weeks(Blues, North, Pies) will determine whether we play finals.

Zaharakis... finally a draftee that won't take 4+ years to make an impact. Skills immaculate. One word for him and that's CLEAN.

Myers... boy oh boy. Slow, fumbles, no good below his knees, kicks have too much air. Does not deserve a game in our 22 at the moment. Why does he get a free ride?

Dyson... actually probably the first game I've seen him play were I thought he could probably become a league footballer... was still pretty average though.

Quinn.. are we taking the piss here? Why on god's name would we select a guy who's only played 5 games - marketing? If any other player made the same mistakes he did they would have been lynched on this board.

Big call of the week - one of Lloyd or Lucas will pull the pin before the season is out!

Carlton game.. I think we'll win. They are overrated and with Fev on one leg won't kick a big enough score to beat us.

[Enki]

Freo game was probably the worst skilled game I have ever watched. It was shocking.

Not even close, a couple of our NAB cup games were ten times as bad.

Such unmitigated hyperbole renders the rest of your post valueless.

[Smyth94]

A little late here... unplanned outage. ;)

Dang...

Freo game was probably the worst skilled game I have ever watched. It was shocking. Luckily we were playing Freo as any other side would have belted us.

lol

Our delivery to our forwards was 10x better than against Port.

[LeeARM]

Not even close, a couple of our NAB cup games were ten times as bad.

Such unmitigated hyperbole renders the rest of your post valueless.
yet for some reason i decided to keep reading. i regretted it.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Dang...

lol

Our delivery to our forwards was 10x better than against Port.

One word... Zaharakis. 7 inside 50's and most were spot on.

No Neagle and more mobility up forward allowed us to make space for targets.

It's all moot coz we played Freo.

[Lance Uppercut]

Quinn.. are we taking the piss here? Why on god's name would we select a guy who's only played 5 games - marketing? If any other player made the same mistakes he did they would have been lynched on this board.



if most other players put in the same effort on the track and the field we'd be in a far ****ing better position

[Merv]

This message is hidden because kelvin_sheedy is on your ignore list (http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/profile.php?do=ignorelist).

[3033]

You spend your whole post slamming essendon and it comes across that you think we are a terrible team, but you think we will beat a team coming off 2 impressive wins???

[kelvin_sheedy]

if most other players put in the same effort on the track and the field we'd be in a far ****ing better position

Then we might have a team full of Mark Boltons....

For me he's not ready and should be left to develop at VFL level. He has awesome traits and could develop into a serious athlete come footballer in a few years.

I just don't want to see us playing russian roulette with our senior side when we are in the business of winning games.

[3033]

Would you say the experiment of playing quinn was a success or not?

[kelvin_sheedy]

Would you say the experiment of playing quinn was a success or not?

Not.

I thought he made way too many mistakes and gave me a heart attack every time he touched the ball.

Why are we experimenting with players in our senior side? We already had one debutant and a very young backline so we did not need an Irish kid who had played 5 games of footy.

I would have been happy to experiment with him if we had McVeigh, Welsh in the side and a bit more experience.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Sheeds was making more sense in his senile years.

Thank you for taking the time to reply.

Please keep all discussion football related and try and make some points worth discussing.

[Lance Uppercut]

Then we might have a team full of Mark Boltons....

For me he's not ready and should be left to develop at VFL level. He has awesome traits and could develop into a serious athlete come footballer in a few years.

I just don't want to see us playing russian roulette with our senior side when we are in the business of winning games.

dude, he earned the game, and he's earned another.

You are judging him on your prejudices because of his different journey to the top.

He did plenty of good things. Whether you think so or not, I'm telling you as fact: his run out of defence was superb, and one of the major reasons we actually won the game, particularly in the first half. Yes he made a few errors, but so did most of the team. He was a long way from the worst on the ground.

He earned the game on merit. Now if you think that isn't worthy, then you have rocks in your head, all due respect.

He got the game because he worked harder than the other candidates. That's a great lesson for some of the non-established players, make no mistake

You are only highlighting his mistakes because of your pre-conceived bias. It's that simple. You're wrong

[3033]

Not.

I thought he made way too many mistakes and gave me a heart attack every time he touched the ball.



I'm the exact opposite. Whenever he touched the ball i was excited because usually he was sprinting forward, ready to take on the play and be creative, and he did hit some nice targets.

The thing i didn't like about quinn was he would be running forward with the footy, but would sometimes handball to a man that was flat footed. But this is equally the fault of his team mates and he will learn from this.

[kelvin_sheedy]

dude, he earned the game, and he's earned another.

You are judging him on your prejudices because of his different journey to the top.

He did plenty of good things. Whether you think so or not, I'm telling you as fact: his run out of defence was superb, and one of the major reasons we actually won the game, particularly in the first half. Yes he made a few errors, but so did most of the team. He was a long way from the worst on the ground.

He earned the game on merit. Now if you think that isn't worthy, then you have rocks in your head, all due respect.

He got the game because he worked harder than the other candidates. That's a great lesson for some of the non-established players, make no mistake

You are only highlighting his mistakes because of your pre-conceived bias. It's that simple. You're wrong

Why would I have pre-conceived bias. I want him to succeed.

He had 20 touches at 60% efficiency with 4 clangers.

For me he was in the group with Myers, Stanton, Lucas and Dyson as our worst players and his efficiency and clangers highlight that.

I reckon your caught up in the romance of it all and can't see the truth.

[kelvin_sheedy]

The thing i didn't like about quinn was he would be running forward with the footy, but would sometimes handball to a man that was flat footed. But this is equally the fault of his team mates and he will learn from this.

Yet, last week we had this board all complaining about Houli doing exactly the same and calling for his head.

Just because he's Irish everyone is willing to give him another go.

60% efficiency and 4 clangers might work against Freo but the better sides will make that pay.

The question we need to ask is.. does he make our side better than NLM, Nash, Houli, Jetta I would say no and that's why I wouldn't pick him.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Thanks to Ant555

Hocking 67%
Watson 67%
Zaharakis 67%
Dyson 60%
Dempsey 67%
Myers 67%
Lloyd 54%
Pears 60%
Lucas 57%
Quinn 60%


Should all those players be dropped, considering that they have been 'playing for more then 5 months'

And if you say it doesn't matter how long they played for, then you can't use the 'he shouldn't have been selected because of how long he has played' line.

He's equal 3rd worst for efficiency and had the second most clangers with 4.

He plays half back were you need to be better, much better than that.

Here's an example on the weekend:

Milburn - %93
Enright - %90
Mackie - %85
Wojinski - %85

That's what we need to be aiming for and anything less is not good enough.

[stay true]

Scathing review IMO.

1. Our skills were the best so far this season.
2. Quinn was far from the worst on the ground. Forget the stats, he provided some good run out of the backline. Granted better sides would punish lower efficiency but he's not the only bloke guilty of that.
3. Myers has played 9 games. Can we stop writing him off after each match already?
4. How many hundreds of points did we have to win by to get something good out of the game?

[yaco55]

What K-Sheedy doesn't realise ( and many others ) is that the coaching staff want ACCOUNTABILITY and WORK RATE from the team.

Quinn was selected because he displayed these traits and performed well for Bendigo.

It is no coincidence that players like Nash, Jetta, Houlit etc are playing for Bendigo.

It may have been a touch early to bring Quinn into the side ( and he may only last a few games, before going back to Bendigo ), but the coaching staff has made a STATEMENT.

[yaco55]

I wasn't worried when Quinn has possession of the ball.

His Gaelic Football traits - that is;finding time and space in heavy traffic stood out.

His decision making and general use of the ball was acceptable.

His weakness is when the ball is kicked in the air - In saying that many fine AFL players have been ordinary in the air.

PS; Dont get to caught up in the stats - I watched 2 replays of the Game and never saw Zaharakis turn over the ball, but yet his disposal efficiency was 67%. Work that out ?

[TheDon35]

Not.

I thought he made way too many mistakes and gave me a heart attack every time he touched the ball.

Not a bad thing.

Why are we experimenting with players in our senior side? We already had one debutant and a very young backline so we did not need an Irish kid who had played 5 games of footy.

We are rightly experimenting because our players over the age of 25 are probably the worst in the league. I'm sorry if you've come into this year under the illusion that we are going to win a flag but news flash.... We won't.

I'll take playing a young fella over treading water with: Mcphee, Welsh, Skipworth, Slattery, NLM, Lucas etc any day of the week.

I would have been happy to experiment with him if we had McVeigh, Welsh in the side and a bit more experience.

Again, are we moving forward or just trying to pretend with the senior players we've got that aren't up to it?

[gg-bomber]

Yet, last week we had this board all complaining about Houli doing exactly the same and calling for his head.

Just because he's Irish everyone is willing to give him another go.

60% efficiency and 4 clangers might work against Freo but the better sides will make that pay.

The question we need to ask is.. does he make our side better than NLM, Nash, Houli, Jetta I would say no and that's why I wouldn't pick him.

Different kettle of fish. Houli has played 15 AFL games and is in his third season. Expectations of players change, and my expectation of a 3rd year player compared to a first gamer in his first EVER preseason is a great deal different.

Quinn's workrate and determination is second to none, and his rate of improvement tells me it is worth a few games of potential "pain" in terms of the odd clanger giving goals away for the "bigger picture".

[Smyth94]

PS; Dont get to caught up in the stats - I watched 2 replays of the Game and never saw Zaharakis turn over the ball, but yet his disposal efficiency was 67%. Work that out ?

I actually couldn't believe he had a disposal eff of 67%, I couldn't remember him turning the ball over once either.

[Spikey]

Not a bad thing.

Best thing you've ever said :D:thumbsu:

[kelvin_sheedy]

I'll take playing a young fella over treading water with: Mcphee, Welsh, Skipworth, Slattery, NLM, Lucas etc any day of the week.

Again, are we moving forward or just trying to pretend with the senior players we've got that aren't up to it?

Were Hawthorn treading water with Guerra, Gilham, Osborne, Ladson, Young?

[reincarnated]

Kelvin, I like your review, because you said it as you saw it. (Others, don't hate me :o).

I took a mate to the footy, who was watching his 2nd game of AFL footy. (1st was Geel vs Haw first round). First thing he said to me was, the kicks aren't going to the players on the full, but when it does they are not marking it. Most of the goals were then from going at it again after the drop mark. He said to me that two players for Essendon are hitting the target, who are No.11 and No.13.

At that point I said to him, if we were playing anyone else than Fremantle, we will be getting smashed. Though I disagree with you that it was the worst game, I wasn't overly happy with what I saw. (ie. Due to the high expectations for finals footy).

I was happy to see Quinn get a go. But he wasn't in our best 22 last week to get a game. But he can't be dropped now from last week's game. (Agree with your other points).

[james_omahoney]

I actually couldn't believe he had a disposal eff of 67%, I couldn't remember him turning the ball over once either.

Short kicks to contests are not considered to be efficient, even if it doesn't result in a turnover. Long kicks to contests are considered efficient. It's actually possible for an inside 50 kick to be considered inefficient, even if it eventually results in a goal :confused:. It's a harsh stat, and not really indicative of true disposal efficiency, IMO. I'm guessing Zaharakis had a few of these.

[daffo]

Yeah all those sort of stats + DT/SC HATE short kicks.

[Ben the Gooner]

Mcphee, Welsh, Skipworth, Slattery, NLM, Lucas etc any day of the week.

Have the balls to admit you were wrong about these three.

[lemon chicken]

Kelvin, I like your review, because you said it as you saw it. (Others, don't hate me :o).

Exactly right. If everyone had the same opinion there wouldnt be much to discuss. People may not agree with Kelvin but at least he is giving explainations to his statements rather than X player is crap and logging off.

[stugots]

Freo game was probably the worst skilled game I have ever watched.

Carlton game.. I think we'll win

meh, what a load of rot

the freo game was easily the best ive seen essendon play for a long while, despite the odd clanger, freo arnt a good barometer but still 'worst skilled game I have ever watched'? - you musnt watch much footy

& carlton (overrated? debatable) will tear us a new one unless we are fired up bigtime, which i think we may just be

[Slattery_20]

Short kicks to contests are not considered to be efficient, even if it doesn't result in a turnover. Long kicks to contests are considered efficient. It's actually possible for an inside 50 kick to be considered inefficient, even if it eventually results in a goal :confused:. It's a harsh stat, and not really indicative of true disposal efficiency, IMO. I'm guessing Zaharakis had a few of these.
Hence why HS efficiency stats are so different to The Age's Critical Errors count

If we are criticising Quinn (for the record I thought he was worthwhile, at least he has a crack): how come everyone's talking about his disposal, which was OK, and not his overhead work - which was ****ing terrible and a clear liability?

[james_omahoney]

Hence why HS efficiency stats are so different to The Age's Critical Errors count

If we are criticising Quinn (for the record I thought he was worthwhile, at least he has a crack): how come everyone's talking about his disposal, which was OK, and not his overhead work - which was ****ing terrible and a clear liability?

Also behinds kicked are inefficient disposals, which would account for a couple of Zaka's 'inefficient' disposals (a total of 7 out of 21, if his rate of 67% efficiency is to be believed).

Yeah HS used champion data. Clangers is more telling I think. I'm pretty sure that disposals that go directly to an opponent (in a non-contested situation) are considered clangers.

Will have to check out the Age's stats. Do they do it themselves or is it provided by a separate group?

[Slattery_20]

Also behinds kicked are inefficient disposals, which would account for a couple of Zaka's 'inefficient' disposals (a total of 7 out of 21, if his rate of 67% efficiency is to be believed).

Yeah HS used champion data. Clangers is more telling I think. I'm pretty sure that disposals that go directly to an opponent (in a non-contested situation) are considered clangers.

Will have to check out the Age's stats. Do they do it themselves or is it provided by a separate group?
no idea. Just read the round-ups on Monday for stats. A lot of the time HS rates inside contested players a lot worse than the Age does.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Great win this week and I tipped us to win as I thought Carlton were overrated and not that good.

Firstly I think we underestimate how good this group is Watson, Stanton, Winderlich, Lovett. They are developing into a genuine top notch midfield and have never deserved the flak they have received from certain sections over the last few years.

Dustin Fletcher looks like he can play another 4 years as a flanker. I love this guy!

Hocking got murdered by Judd at times but tried his heart out. He has convinced my that he can play and will be a solid player in a few years.

Slattery is making people eat their words. He's doing the job, providing a serious contest and is fairly composed down back.

Skipworth was solid but the pace of the game highlighted to me that he'll be pushed out by the likes of Reimers.

Great composure in the last 10 seconds by Demspey and then Dyson, also great chase by Ryder who made up for an abysmal effort at the start of the second.

Big call of the week: David Myers won't make it.

[bombersrbest05]

Agree with the Slats comment he is quickly turning into one of my favourite players he would do anything for the team and always puts in 110%

[Spikey]

Hands up those who always defended Slatts

*hands up*


And you've been making that call all year Kelvin :p

Neagle's becoming a bit of a worry....

[AndyLesPaul]

Big call of the week: David Myers won't make it.

I disagree.

[kelvin_sheedy]

Hands up those who always defended Slatts

*hands up*


And you've been making that call all year Kelvin :p

Neagle's becoming a bit of a worry....

I was going to mention that one.. forgot about it.

He needs to get a lot of football in him so he can get the fitness base to compete. We know he has talent but when you can't compete you are a liability. He needs to start kicking 4 and 5's at VFL level and get the ball 20 times.

It's one of the reasons I was so hard on him a year or two ago about his body shape and puppy fat. He needs a Jobe Watson transformation and a serious kick up the arse.

[Boucks09]

Hands up those who always defended Slatts

*hands up*



Pick me miss...pick me!!

[Merv]

Hands up those who always defended Slatts

*hands up*


And you've been making that call all year Kelvin :p

Neagle's becoming a bit of a worry....

Might pay to remember how many goals he is having kicked on him before getting too excited with his form.

[Spikey]

Might pay to remember how many goals he is having kicked on him before getting too excited with his form.

Shouldn't you be saying that to the other two then?

[Ben the Gooner]

Hands up those who always defended Slatts

*hands up*


And you've been making that call all year Kelvin :p

Neagle's becoming a bit of a worry....

Ooh ooh pick me! Has certainly improved. I had to laugh on Saturday night when Quarterbrain said "Great work Slattery...to Dyson... OH BEAUTIFUL KICK". The antithesis of your average Essendon supporter's expectations.

Big call of the week: David Myers won't make it.

I disagree.

When you put it like that, who can disagree?

[Spikey]

Ooh ooh pick me! Has certainly improved. I had to laugh on Saturday night when Quarterbrain said "Great work Slattery...to Dyson... OH BEAUTIFUL KICK". The antithesis of your average Essendon supporter's expectations.

If only Laycock was playing and he marked Dyson's kick!


When you put it like that, who can disagree?


I can.

[fishguts]

Big call of the week: David Myers won't make it.

What the hell is your problem?

Every day it's the same thing, bag Myers.

The kid is only getting his fitness back from a very interrupted pre-season.

The kid is a genuine good kick, though I have noticed on 2 occasions this year he has shanked it (the bouncing ball in the back pocket, didn't result in turnover, kick to Darcy in back pocket, Darcy still should've marked it but it didn't result in a turnover)

Despite his lack of conditioning, he still EVERYTIME, puts on a shepherd and runs hard to receive.

Do you have Bombertv Kelvin?

[Ben the Gooner]

I can.

But look at all of the evidence he presented.

[Ben the Gooner]

What the hell is your problem?

Every day it's the same thing, bag Myers.

The kid is only getting his fitness back from a very interrupted pre-season.

The kid is a genuine good kick, though I have noticed on 2 occasions this year he has shanked it (the bouncing ball in the back pocket, didn't result in turnover, kick to Darcy in back pocket, Darcy still should've marked it but it didn't result in a turnover)

Despite his lack of conditioning, he still EVERYTIME, puts on a shepherd and runs hard to receive.

Do you have Bombertv Kelvin?

To be fair, he was ****ing shit this week, and not much better last week.

Way too early to be making career calls, but there is some (slender) evidence to support him.

[donsman4eva]

What the hell is your problem?

Every day it's the same thing, bag Myers.

The kid is only getting his fitness back from a very interrupted pre-season.

The kid is a genuine good kick, though I have noticed on 2 occasions this year he has shanked it (the bouncing ball in the back pocket, didn't result in turnover, kick to Darcy in back pocket, Darcy still should've marked it but it didn't result in a turnover)

Despite his lack of conditioning, he still EVERYTIME, puts on a shepherd and runs hard to receive.

Do you have Bombertv Kelvin?

That's all well and good, but none of that has anything to do with his hand-eye co-ordination. His handling of the ball below his knees is atrocious! There's no point being a good kick if you cant pick the ball up. A lot of work needs to be done there.

I cant believe I'm agreeing with Kelvin :eek:

[fishguts]

To be fair, he was ****ing shit this week, and not much better last week.

Way too early to be making career calls, but there is some (slender) evidence to support him.

As I said, he had suspected glandular fever through February and March and he had the ankle problem, he is getting his conditioning back.

As for evidence supporting him, it's easy to kick him whilst his down, that's why I want to know if he has Bombertv, as there is evidence galore as to his talent.

[daffo]

The first ramblings that I've actually agreed with. I still have a fair bit of faith in Myers and expect him to make it.
I'm still not 100% convinced on Slattery either.

[fishguts]

That's all well and good, but none of that has anything to do with his hand-eye co-ordination. His handling of the ball below his knees is atrocious! There's no point being a good kick if you cant pick the ball up. A lot of work needs to be done there.

I cant believe I'm agreeing with Kelvin :eek:

Again, it comes down to lack of conditioning, if by round 7 he isn't fit and flying and in our best 22, then I'll have another look at him. But I think 8 pretty darn good games beats 2 average games with a below standard (not his fault) fitness base.

[Spikey]

But look at all of the evidence he presented.

Yeah? So? I disagree.

[yaco55]

Lack of conditioning or illness doesn't affect agility and your turning circle.

Unless Myers can improve the above - he will continue to be turned around by opponents.

I suspect that Myers will end up being an inside mid because

- he can win a contested ball
- he can win the ball in traffic
- he can use his long kicking
- he will have an advantage in the air

[Ben the Gooner]

As I said, he had suspected glandular fever through February and March and he had the ankle problem, he is getting his conditioning back.

As for evidence supporting him, it's easy to kick him whilst his down, that's why I want to know if he has Bombertv, as there is evidence galore as to his talent.

As far as I'm concerned, you get one game's grace in the seniors for injury/pre-season worries. After 2 bad games, questions can be asked.

I don't think it's fair to be writing the lad off after 1 and a bit seasons, but to me, David is a long way from our 22.

[Ben the Gooner]

Yeah? So? I disagree.

Ah touche.

[fishguts]

Lack of conditioning or illness doesn't affect agility and your turning circle.

Unless Myers can improve the above - he will continue to be turned around by opponents.

I suspect that Myers will end up being an inside mid because

- he can win a contested ball
- he can win the ball in traffic
- he can use his long kicking
- he will have an advantage in the air

Actually it can. It can lower your co-ordination and reduces strength which doesn't allow you to run at your full potential.

[fishguts]

As far as I'm concerned, you get one game's grace in the seniors for injury/pre-season worries. After 2 bad games, questions can be asked.

I don't think it's fair to be writing the lad off after 1 and a bit seasons, but to me, David is a long way from our 22.

You could look at it this way. The people who have been training this group throughout the whole summer, think that he is that good, that they can drag him through games horribly under-done, and still expect him to contribute.

Now, I'm first to say his head is on the chopping block this week. But for people to be writing him off after 2 bad games when just last season he had 8 good games, is just laughable.

[Knight Ryders]

There is also one other vital component that hasn't been mentioned - confidence. I could be wrong, but I loved how clean and strong over the ball he was last year. I think his spot is definitely vulnerable and we shouldn't just reward youngsters with their spots because of potential alone. Make them earn it with some good performances for Bendigo so they come in choc-a-bloc full of confidence.

This is just the 2nd year of a long investment.

[Ben the Gooner]

This is just the 2nd year of a long investment.

And people forget that too easily.

[kelvin_sheedy]

The thing with Myers that gets me is his lack of clean hands at present. Fatigue and lack of conditioning never affected Rioli because he had sublime touch. Myers doesn't and I don't think I've ever seen him do it well.

Myers is a long way away and the closer I scrutinise the more things I pick up I don't like. Looking at the performances of Dangerfield and Rioli on the weekend eats at me that we don't have that impact from him in our side.

I hope he can develop into a brutish inside mid along the lines of Cameron Ling.

Imagine having Watson, McVeigh, Myers, Lonergan, Welsh all smashing the contest at each stoppage.

[fishguts]

The thing with Myers that gets me is his lack of clean hands at present. Fatigue and lack of conditioning never affected Rioli because he had sublime touch. Myers doesn't and I don't think I've ever seen him do it well.

Myers is a long way away and the closer I scrutinise the more things I pick up I don't like. Looking at the performances of Dangerfield and Rioli on the weekend eats at me that we don't have that impact from him in our side.

I hope he can develop into a brutish inside mid along the lines of Cameron Ling.

Imagine having Watson, McVeigh, Myers, Lonergan, Welsh all smashing the contest at each stoppage.

That's all you do though is scrutinize him, I haven't even seen you mention one positive of him ever.

Again, do you have bombertv?

[kelvin_sheedy]

That's all you do though is scrutinize him, I haven't even seen you mention one positive of him ever.

Again, do you have bombertv?

No I don't have bombertv. I keep on thinking I should get it but I never get around to it.

As for positives I haven't seen any really. His only game I liked was against Adelaide last year because he got into good positions and competed well. Apart from that there's nothing that fills me with joy.

[fishguts]

No I don't have bombertv. I keep on thinking I should get it but I never get around to it.

As for positives I haven't seen any really. His only game I liked was against Adelaide last year because he got into good positions and competed well. Apart from that there's nothing that fills me with joy.

Ok, well you should really consider getting it, as they have highlights from all games and Myers featured pretty heavily in his games last year. Including a few 50 meter spearing passes.

Along with Adelaide, I also liked his games against the Swans, Hawthorn and Carlton. In these games he was cool under pressure, kicking was elite, and just found the ball. His Fremantle game would've been the best for the lot with 14 good touches to half time before he got stress fractures.

Another thing to note is that he improved with every game, and he will continue to do so.

How highly must the coaching staff rate him if they are willing to drag him through matches to help get his fitness up.

[Knight Ryders]

Firstly, Rioli is a freak with his clean touch and skill and there are not many as good as him in that area full stop, being young or not.

Dangerfield is probably a good comparison because although he is quick, he will definitely be an inside mid in years to come. Until Sunday, Dangerfield had little impact on a match so far due to his fitness not being up to scratch.

Kelvin, I do agree with you about Myers may be developing into a brutish inside mid. I just don't think we've seen the best of him yet, but I think he has all the tools to do so. May be his best use for know might be to play on the outstanding roaming half-forwards so he can know the work rate that is required to play at the level.

Also, I think if we wanted a quick-fix midfielder we would have picked Palmer over Myers.

[stay true]

To be fair, he was ****ing shit this week, and not much better last week.

Way too early to be making career calls, but there is some (slender) evidence to support him.

Agreed. Like I've been saying all along, give the kid a chance. He's only played 10 games.:thumbsu:

[Lance Uppercut]

good to see Positive Kelvin showing his face :thumbsu:

Re: Myers... I am so confident this guy will be a gun it's not funny. Now, I know there is as much evidence to suggest he will be a gun as there is to say he'll be a dud - ie bugger all.

But I see him as having all the tools - physically and, importantly, mentally. I anticipate a steep improvement curve - over the next 2 years. I do not expect him to blow us away in his first 2 years; he was never going to do that.

Once his body fills out, and he gets his confidence up, Im so sure he'll be a major weapon. I've seen him fail to have much of an impact this year, but I like to think bigger picture - think Winderlich; think Lonergan; think even bloody Gary Ablett - not sure how he was rated after just 10 games.

I may be wrong, god knows it's happened before, but I am putting my balls on the line and making the call:

Myers will be a gun

[Boucks09]

The lack of conditioning and fitness has a massive impact on all aspects of Myers' game: kicking, ball control etc.

He is clearly underdone which is resulting in him going to ground and fumbling the ball frequently. This is also affecting his confidence as he then is not using the ball as well as he can.

We are not seeing the best of Myers now so anybody putting a line through him is being ridiculous. I think he will become a good player for us but for the moment he needs to spend some time in the 2's in the midfield and game some fitness and touch.

I'm not sure what type of role he will play in the future? He could be a Pendlebury type who isn't super quick with decent skills?

[Enki]

Myers clearly needs to play at Bendigo as he is very underdone, and to be honest I'd leave him there for quite some time. This would not be because I don't rate him, I've seen a few glimpses that showed real skill and class, but he doesn't do it enough. It's fine to say he is young but all players have to perform when the are in the senior team.

It's sort of like Monfries, who was probably played too much too early, and I'll go out on a limb and say Jetta too. Some kids should have a taste but then need to go back to the seconds and really work on not what they are, but what they need to become. Myers simply doesn't strike me as a HBF, or any sort of defender (even if he did play as a HBF when he was a junior it won't be his best position in AFL in my opinion). Myers looks like he could be a great tall inside midfielder who also has poise, however as I said in another thread he simply doesn't get enough of the ball at the moment to justify playing him as a midfielder at AFL level. This is fine as he is still young and has plenty of time to mature, but he should be at Bendigo working to really make a position his own (as I said I'd like him to play in the middle and try to develop as a classy clearance player, but I can see him working on the wing too as he has the work ethic to no slack off out there).

I also don't subscribe to the theory that throwing kids into defence teaches them good defensive skills, this is true for some but not for others, and if this is what we are trying to do then I don't think it is worth it with Myers. He is a smart, hard worker and if we play him in the midfield or on the wing at Bendigo I'm sure he would quickly master the defensive aspects needed for whichever position he was playing.

In short, I don't think he is a HBF (at AFL level), I don't think playing him there is good for his long term development even if he improves in that position in the short term, and I don't think just because a kid is highly rated and intelligent you should play him in the senior side.

I do think he has class, I do think he has a lot of potential, and I do think it would be foolish to write him off at the current time. But I also think that you have to develop kids differently, and to me he is crying out for development at Bendigo. Just my opinion.

[Jonesy1987]

Everyone should have a look at Myers singing the team song after last weeks win, never seen anyone so happy before. Show passion :thumbsu:

[zaharakamania]

the last thing Myers needs is time in the 2's, he needs a crash course in how to play the game in the bigtime, which he is now receiving

he hasnt been great but so what? he has & is showing enough to suggest that once he gets his body & confidence right he could be anything

[Ben the Gooner]

he hasnt been great but so what?

Why should we be spoon-feeding anyone games?

Bachar Houli and Leroy Jetta are playing 2s because of their flaws, yet we should give Myers free games when he hasn't earnt them?

[bomba4eva]

Myers is a huge worry. I've been thinking it for a while and every game I've seen him play this year has been below standard or simply pathetic. He is underdone and needs all the game time he can get but gee did he put in some shocking efforts on the weekend. He was constantly lead to the ball by Wiggins:o Wiggins for FFS! Then he went to ground when I think it was Garlett who swooped in and kicked the goal. Gut wrenching stuff. He looked slow and I didn't see his booming kick. He is struggling immensely. Almost time to dump him to the reserves. He has plenty of talent but many players have gone by that never realised their potential. I expect a much better performance this week or he can go play with the duds at Bendigo for a few weeks until he earns his place back. One more chance.

[Daytripper]

Its the pick 6 curse.....

If there's one player he reminds me of it is Pendlebury. Hopefully he can reach that standard.

[bomba4eva]

Its the pick 6 curse.....

If there's one player he reminds me of it is Pendlebury. Hopefully he can reach that standard.
With rumours floating around about Yarren also you may have a point....

Pick 7 nets decent players. Selwood, Palmer and now Rich.

Break that curse Myers. Then let it hound Carlton:thumbsu:

[Jonesy1987]

Why should we be spoon-feeding anyone games?

Bachar Houli and Leroy Jetta are playing 2s because of their flaws, yet we should give Myers free games when he hasn't earnt them?

So we should have dropped Lloyd then?

[Kong]

I don't agree with those saying Myers needs time in the seniors to better himself. That theory does sometimes work, and in the case of Pears, Hurley and a lesser extent, Daniher, I believe that's the best way to fast-track their development. However as some people have stated, Myers seems to be lacking in fitness and match practice, so I'm of the opinion that sending him back to Bendigo to run out full games in the midfield is what could perhaps be best for him at this stage. As BtG has said, we've done the same with Houli and Jetta, so Myers shouldn't (and most probably isn't) any different.
On a side note, I'm no medical expert, but from my own experience and watching a lot of sport, I have a theory. Watching Myers lumbering (at stages) on Saturday night, it appeared to me that perhaps he's struggling with a slight abdominal/groin problem; maybe even without his own knowledge. Obviously the trainers are paid to be aware of these things, but there are instances where it doesn't become fully obvious for some time. Just to clarify though, that's purely one man's stab at a theory; it's not me pushing any rumours.

[Lance Uppercut]

I don't agree with those saying Myers needs time in the seniors to better himself. That theory does sometimes work, and in the case of Pears, Hurley and a lesser extent, Daniher, I believe that's the best way to fast-track their development. However as some people have stated, Myers seems to be lacking in fitness and match practice, so I'm of the opinion that sending him back to Bendigo to run out full games in the midfield is what could perhaps be best for him at this stage. As BtG has said, we've done the same with Houli and Jetta, so Myers shouldn't (and most probably isn't) any different.
On a side note, I'm no medical expert, but from my own experience and watching a lot of sport, I have a theory. Watching Myers lumbering (at stages) on Saturday night, it appeared to me that perhaps he's struggling with a slight abdominal/groin problem; maybe even without his own knowledge. Obviously the trainers are paid to be aware of these things, but there are instances where it doesn't become fully obvious for some time. Just to clarify though, that's purely one man's stab at a theory; it's not me pushing any rumours.

dude, if you've spotted something that the entire Essendon medical staff have missed, with no medical training, simply by watching him for 120 minutes, then forget about being a mod - you've got a role waiting for you at any diagnostic facility in the country! ;)

[wba1977]

Everyone should have a look at Myers singing the team song after last weeks win, never seen anyone so happy before. Show passion :thumbsu:

Essendon can draft me next year!

I will sing the team song the loudest out of everyone & they won't have to pay me anything at all!

I will be a rubbish player tho..... wtf?????

Myers needs to go back to the twos. Too many people here way too excited about the kid. I know it's only 10 games in but Hurley & Zaka have played one and two games respectively, looked like they belonged at this level, and really contributed. Myers looked nothing but a liability against the Blues. He needs to earn a spot on contribution not a high draft pick.

Dyson & Nash both deserve to stay in the side ahead of Myers at the moment.

Agree with most of what you have to say Sheeds.

I think Skipworth has been great. I was one who thought it was the worst decision in the world drafting Skippy but I think he brings some composure to the side. Would be getting a game at this stage ahead of Hocking in my opinion. I am not sure how Skippy gets relegated through a lack of pace but Hocking will be ok??? Don't take that the wrong way, I think Hocking has been great this year, but Skippy has shaded him.

[Knight Ryders]

dude, if you've spotted something that the entire Essendon medical staff have missed, with no medical training, simply by watching him for 120 minutes, then forget about being a mod - you've got a role waiting for you at any diagnostic facility in the country! ;)

Who is to say that they haven't spotted it?

I was actually thinking the same thing about Leon Davis the other day, but not that should worry us - just put in the back of my mind for DT.

[Jonesy1987]

Essendon can draft me next year!

I will sing the team song the loudest out of everyone & they won't have to pay me anything at all!

I will be a rubbish player tho..... wtf?????

Myers needs to go back to the twos. Too many people here way too excited about the kid. I know it's only 10 games in but Hurley & Zaka have played one and two games respectively, looked like they belonged at this level, and really contributed. Myers looked nothing but a liability against the Blues. He needs to earn a spot on contribution not a high draft pick.


Myers showed last year that he can play at this level, if Hurley comes back and plays a couple of average games drop him? Zaharakis was very average against the Blues should he be dropped?

Myers is coming off an interrupted preseason injuring his ankle just one practice game before the season. ATM it is obvious he is a little under done, but still he was pretty good against Freo. The kid shows great leadership, passion and gives it his all which sets a better example to the rest of the kids than a couple of people who could replace him. FFS Give him time to settle, people are treating him like he has been in the system years and offered us nothing.

[wba1977]

I didn't say delist the bloke.

On current form and output and with injured players coming back over the next few weeks, he is not in our best 22.

Let him force his way into the team on what he does for Bendigo not potential.

I think it is a good sign for us that when we get a few back there will not be cheap games for anyone at the club. Myers included.

[fishguts]

He will be much better next week, and even better the week after, and so forth.

[Jonesy1987]

I didn't say delist the bloke.

On current form and output and with injured players coming back over the next few weeks, he is not in our best 22.

Let him force his way into the team on what he does for Bendigo not potential.

I think it is a good sign for us that when we get a few back there will not be cheap games for anyone at the club. Myers included.

Not disputing on form that he isn't our best 22 atm, but his game was no worse than Zaha, Nash, and Jetta, and IMO needs to be given time to find where he is best placed.

[wba1977]

Last week :

Zaha had a poor game but was still better than Myers.

Nash had a solid game and was alot better than Myers.

Jetta had a v poor game and will gladly agree with you on that score that he was pretty rubbish too.

Zaha got a game on the back of a dominant display at VFL level and it held him in pretty good stead for his first game in the big time.

I don't see why it should be an issue for Myers to go back, dominate at the lower level and win his spot back if he is good enough.

McVeigh, Reimers, Lonergan, Welsh, Prismall etc etc there will have to be some tough calls in the next few weeks on players going back to vfl and agree that Jetta will be in the firing line this week too.

[Kong]

dude, if you've spotted something that the entire Essendon medical staff have missed, with no medical training, simply by watching him for 120 minutes, then forget about being a mod - you've got a role waiting for you at any diagnostic facility in the country! ;)Haha, like I said, it was just a theory that I developed, and realise will more than likely be completely off the mark. All I can say is: when in rome.

[zaharakamania]

I don't see why it should be an issue for Myers to go back, dominate at the lower level and win his spot back if he is good enough.

guess thats why the coaches get the big bucks, they can see what many of us cant or fail to see

he may well be dropped when the side comes out today, but it would be a mistake pure & simple, give him &, perhaps more to the point, the side the time to settle

it was after all one heck of a pressure cooker on sat night & were talking about a young inexperienced player here

[kelvin_sheedy]

guess thats why the coaches get the big bucks, they can see what many of us cant or fail to see

he may well be dropped when the side comes out today, but it would be a mistake pure & simple, give him &, perhaps more to the point, the side the time to settle

it was after all one heck of a pressure cooker on sat night & were talking about a young inexperienced player here

He's barely played a game that's anything more than 4/10.

Why do you give someone a free ride when there's other players more deserving of a spot.

Why do you penalise the team, the supporters and your chance of winning by playing a guy that isn't up to it at the moment?

How would you feel if you are busting your ass out there and the coach is playing someone who is doing nothing. What type of message does that send to the playing group?

[Ben the Gooner]

So we should have dropped Lloyd then?

Not really the same case. Lloyd has proven his worth over 13 years, is the club's captain, didn't play poorly enough to get dropped, and has no one pushing for his spot.

If Myers doesn't get dropped this week, and Jetta does, there's a problem.