View Full Version : are Laycock and Skippy too slow for the team structure ?
strategy
26 May 2009, 17:39
I feel if they are in they may slow down the movments around the ground .
I dont know their speed times , consistency in speed , endurance and recovery time compared to the others in the team .
Any thoughts ?
I dont hold anything against them i just feel they dont have the speed .
Boucks09
26 May 2009, 17:45
I feel if they are in they may slow down the movments around the ground .
I dont know their speed times , consistency in speed , endurance and recovery time compared to the others in the team .
Any thoughts ?
I dont hold anything against them i just feel they dont have the speed .
No they don't.
If we were to continue with train of thought we wouldn't play McVeigh, Watson, Lonergan, Slattery, Myers, Welsh just to name a few.
There is a hell of a lot more to our game plan than just guys that can run fast.
strategy
26 May 2009, 18:00
No they don't.
If we were to continue with train of thought we wouldn't play McVeigh, Watson, Lonergan, Slattery, Myers, Welsh just to name a few.
There is a hell of a lot more to our game plan than just guys that can run fast.
they are slower than that group you just named
Yes! We should find a 200cm ruckman that can run 100m within 11 seconds while being able to out-muscle every other ruckman in the comp to replace Laycock!
AndyLesPaul
26 May 2009, 18:06
Surely Neagle's one of the slowest.
Ryder is one of the most important for our team structure. (fast ruckman, can also tackle.)
Knights game plan is attacking football, and as said above, not just fast running.
Ben the Gooner
26 May 2009, 18:08
No. Silly thread.
AsIfYouCare
26 May 2009, 18:14
Yes! We should find a 200cm ruckman that can run 100m within 11 seconds while being able to out-muscle every other ruckman in the comp to replace Laycock!
There's plenty of them around. Maybe we should get one with our third round draft pick next year. Our recruiters are so dumb.
Boucks09
26 May 2009, 18:20
Yes! We should find a 200cm ruckman that can run 100m within 11 seconds while being able to out-muscle every other ruckman in the comp to replace Laycock!
Lebron James!!!!
In all seriousness players don't need to be fast runners to be fast players. Look at Scott Pendlebury...not fast by any stretch but do you ever see him tackled? No because he has footy smarts which create space, run and drive.
rainman06
26 May 2009, 18:26
If Tommy Bellchambers can get a game without slowing us down then Jason Laycock can too.
Skipworth will be interesting because his form early on was great but it is a little difficult to see who he is competing with for a spot and who of those people he would be able to replace.
IMO we have a pretty decent chemistry at the moment so we have to be careful we dont stuff around with it too much.
Is Laycock any slower than Bellchambers?
I'm not sure I get the point.
mattyboy_666
26 May 2009, 18:32
It's not like Laycock would come in and join Ryder & Bellchambers. Replace Bellchambers for Laycock, both are as slow as each other. No structure change there..
And remember Skippy had some pretty good games in a row at the start of the year, he's not as quick but atleast he seems to get a lot of the pill, another good link up player around the forward 50
Nah i think it's fine ... skipworth is a calm, collected footballer with a level head. just what we need when he handball in circles at each other's feet... someone to just grab it and drill the kick onto the chest of a teammate.
Laycock will rotate between the forward line and the ruck. and help expose any possible height mismatches we might get on the cats backmen.Surely Neagle's one of the slowest.
Ryder is one of the most important for our team structure. (fast ruckman, can also tackle.)
Knights game plan is attacking football, and as said above, not just fast running.neagle plays out of the goalsquare and therefore is irrelevant to the discussion
Is Laycock any slower than Bellchambers?
I'm not sure I get the point.
nope, he's probably a bit quicker than belly. not by much though.
Donakebab
26 May 2009, 19:03
If Skippy was too slow for our style of play, Knighter would never have recruited him. End of story.
High as a kite, everybody. Goofballs!
If skippy is gonna play forward, id rather have leroy jetta in.
Skipworth is there for his footy brain. Much like Watson, except Watson is more of an in and under player.
Laycock has always shown glimpses of his potential but is definitely testing my patience. However, until Gumbleton gets himself right, we still need him as a ruckman who provides a marking option in the forward line.
SirJimi05
26 May 2009, 19:59
Yeah Bellchambers is a jet. No way in the world Laycock should replace him. It will cost us too much speed.
Jetta is very meh in terms of speed also so if Skippy were to replace him i wouldnt be fussed.
AlwaysRight
26 May 2009, 20:39
Yes! We should find a 200cm ruckman that can run 100m within 11 seconds while being able to out-muscle every other ruckman in the comp to replace Laycock!
Your suggesting that we try and get Mike Pyke from Sydney? :P
Mr Mosquito
26 May 2009, 20:44
Yes! We should find a 200cm ruckman that can run 100m within 11 seconds while being able to out-muscle every other ruckman in the comp to replace Laycock!
BOOM! Usain Bolt comes to Essendon.......i can already see the headlines.
hateitorlovett13
26 May 2009, 20:57
BOOM! Usain Bolt comes to Essendon.......i can already see the headlines.
Sheeds probably would have had a chat to him if he was still coach. Or maybe Andrew Bogut, he's a big Essendon fan.
Shane Hird
26 May 2009, 21:00
Knighta himself was a 'slow' but highly skilled player and was made Captain at RFC.
kelvin_sheedy
26 May 2009, 21:30
Depending on the mechanics and setup of the side I can see Skipworth missing out similar to how Prismall couldn't get a game at Geelong becuase Bomber wanted some quicker guys forward.
Shane Hird
26 May 2009, 21:35
Depending on the mechanics and setup of the side I can see Skipworth missing out similar to how Prismall couldn't get a game at Geelong becuase Bomber wanted some quicker guys forward.
You saying Prismall is slow too?
stay true
26 May 2009, 21:37
No, I don't think they are too slow for the team structure.
kelvin_sheedy
26 May 2009, 21:42
You saying Prismall is slow too?
Yep, Prismall is not quick.
I've always wondered how he'd fit into our side and what role he'd play.
Mad Bomber Sean
26 May 2009, 22:41
Speed comes in different forms
1.Foot speed or pure pace
2.Speed by hand Watson style (ability to hand ball at speed /pinpoint accuracy)
3.Speed by foot (NOT PACE) (ability to kick the ball very quickly/pinpoint accuracy)
4.High quality decsion speed (make the right decsion quickly)
5. Ruckman speed (Hard to describe but generally slower than most players)
6. Other types of speed - cant think of em now but I am sure there are other skills where non pace speed is a factor
Type 1. Pure pace:Lovett, Dempsey, Quinn, Aitkinson, Davey, Winderlich, and to a lesser extent Jetta, NLM, Ryder, Dyson, Pears, Hooker, Reimers but not Mcphee
Type 2. Hand Speed Watson, Mcveigh, Skippy, Lovett, Windas, Hooking, Lonergan, Reimers, Hooker but not Mcphee
Type 3 players: Mcveigh, Skippy, Prismall Lovett, Windas, Hooking, Lonergan, Reimers, Hooker Pears, but not Mcphee
Type 4. Watson Skippy, Prismall Lovett, Windas , Prizza a few others but not Mcphee
Type 5. Hille, Bellchambers, Laycock ( RYDER is more a type 1 speed but medium fast )
Type 6. ?
Point is speed comes in different forms & we need all of them.
Skippy has very good speed by hand and foot and is a good decsion maker.
Laycock is simply a promising ruckman with huge potential but about the same speed as Belly & Hillie and probably Bock. He's speed or lack of it in the above forms would not effect our structure or game plan any more than the alternatives ( excluding Ryder who is unique).
Our game plane also requires more than simple speed, and our structure is one that is in constant flux. It will change to some extent to match the cattle.
To have a team made of pure pace/velocity would mean to eliminate guys like Watson and the in an under players which are generally not pacy. Who would we have to get the ball at the bottom of the pack if we have nothing but inside players ?
Any way neither Skippy or Laycock is too slow for our team structure in my objective opinion.
Mcphee I see as a fairly slow player in many aspects of the game but I think he is also very important and necessary to our team structure
Type 2. Hand Speed Watson, Mcveigh, Skippy, Lovett, Windas, Hooking, Lonergan, Reimers, Hooker but not Mcphee
Ah yes, Hooking. One day Knighter and G'OD (quite an apt nickname for him considering the following revelation) decided that they wanted the ultimate defensive player, so they spliced the genes of Hooker and Hocking together to create...Hooking! All the strengths, none of the weaknesses.
Beware the Hooking.
Mad Bomber Sean
27 May 2009, 00:35
Ah yes, Hooking. One day Knighter and G'OD (quite an apt nickname for him considering the following revelation) decided that they wanted the ultimate defensive player, so they spliced the genes of Hooker and Hocking together to create...Hooking! All the strengths, none of the weaknesses.
Beware the Hooking.
Yep, that made me laugh quiet a bit when I read your reply! Loved it..
Perhaps we could invent a term for the Hooker to Hocking pass - Hooking ?
Beware the Hooking!
Longy413
27 May 2009, 08:23
Surely Neagle's one of the slowest.
Neagle is quick for his size and powerful off the mark. His pace is good, his ability to provide repeated efforts is his downfall at the moment.
Yep, Prismall is not quick.
I've always wondered how he'd fit into our side and what role he'd play.
It wasn't because of his pace that he wasn't getting a game. Pris is a midfielder and wasn't ahead of any of Geelong's first choice midfield.
But Bomber didn't play him forward because he wanted quicker options there, ala Stokes, Byrnes, Varcoe to perform the kind of roles Davey and Jetta do for us.
He'll play as a midfielder for us, one that can win the footy and has good skills and a strong body. If you can do that then pace is irrelevant.
Our game plan isn't all about running 100km an hour. Geelong aren't a quick side but their ball movement is. You don't need great leg speed to play like Geelong, you do need big bodies, quick ball movement, skill and ability to find space. Skippy and Pris can provide that so they fit fine into our game plan.
Not everyone has to run and carry, although Pris does do that. Good footballers fit into every game plan.
The Laycock comment has me blown away.
nighthawk
27 May 2009, 11:16
Speed comes in different forms...
I think the 6th type you're looking for is ability to read the play. Some players aren't explosive but can tell where the ball is going and get there before the quicker players purely because of their anticipation skills.
Id actually go as far as to say our team structure is screaming for Laycock to come in.
Ryder it seems needs more of a chopout before we run him into the ground, and Laycock can spend some of his rest time forward, creating a real nuisance for a matchup and in play. This takes further pressure off Neagle especially, but also Lloyd.
Bellchambers, whilst trying hard and looks somewhat promising for a 19yo, is offering very little and to top it off isnt given (trusted with?) much game time, making life that little bit harder for Ryder. It may not catch up with Ryder this week, but it may in 6 weeks.
The quicker we get Laycock into the side, the better we will be. Laycock will give us more around the ground compared to Belly. All Belly needs to do is spend some time in the VFL for a year or two and build up his match fitness, smarts and bulk. He is a promising player for us.
Mad Bomber Sean
27 May 2009, 19:57
The quicker we get Laycock into the side, the better we will be. Laycock will give us more around the ground compared to Belly. All Belly needs to do is spend some time in the VFL for a year or two and build up his match fitness, smarts and bulk. He is a promising player for us.
Is it me or does having Bellly playing give us a sense that Chook is
A. Not as bad as portrayed especially with reference to Belly & other ruckman in the comp ATM.
B. Somewhat scapegoated by supporters during a very tough period?
zaharakamania
27 May 2009, 20:59
B. Somewhat scapegoated by supporters during a very tough period?
He got what he deserved for a while there, but the somewhat held perception that is a complete Muppet is unfair & mostly unwarranted
IMO it is a case misunderstanding the role of the second ruckman.
Posters place unrealistic expectations on the performanced of second ruckmen - But in saying that - laycock has deficiencies in his game.
AFL LEGEND
28 May 2009, 11:09
No, of course they are not, without having read the whole thread and all the posts, Laycock gives us versatility that Hille also gives us, a ruckmen able to rest forward and cause problems for opposition coaches.
Skipworth may not be the quickest bloke going around, but he is certainly a very smart player and one who also gives us both a mature body, a leader in a young developing team, and another option through the midfield which is always handy in this ever increasing game of ours.