View Full Version : Replacement forward (if needed)
cooper6
22 Jun 2009, 20:43
It appears unlikely to me now that both Neagle and Gumbleton will make it. I think this is our biggest concern by a long way. With Gumbleton's injuries and Neagle's future as a Fevola-like forward looking very unlikely, I think we need to look at replacement scenarios. If at least one of these two fail to make it, wat move would people favour?
- Hurley forward with Hooker, Pears and Daniher back.
- Hooker forward, with Hurley, Pears and Daniher back.
- Daniher or Laycock (or maybe Still) forward, maintaining our strongest backline.
- Ryder / Hille combining in ruck and FF
- Use our first pick in the next draft on recruting another key forward, again, maintaining our strongest backline.
I have no solution, redraft scott cummings?
George Washington
22 Jun 2009, 20:49
- Daniher or Laycock (or maybe Still) forward, maintaining our strongest backline.
- Ryder / Hille combining in ruck and FF
- Use our first pick in the next draft on recruting another key forward, again, maintaining our strongest backline.
Mixture of these 3 I would think. Would love to see Daniher given a go up forward, from all reports he plays quite well there. Unfortunately Lloyd and Lucas are clogging it up and he won't get a chance for a while. Give Ryder time in the fwd line and he will come good, I love his seemingly effortless 60m kicks.
Shane Hird
22 Jun 2009, 20:59
It appears unlikely to me now that both Neagle and Gumbleton will make it. I think this is our biggest concern by a long way. With Gumbleton's injuries and Neagle's future as a Fevola-like forward looking very unlikely, I think we need to look at replacement scenarios. If at least one of these two fail to make it, wat move would people favour?
- Hurley forward with Hooker, Pears and Daniher back.
- Hooker forward, with Hurley, Pears and Daniher back.
- Daniher or Laycock (or maybe Still) forward, maintaining our strongest backline.
- Ryder / Hille combining in ruck and FF
- Use our first pick in the next draft on recruting another key forward, again, maintaining our strongest backline.
I have no solution, redraft scott cummings?
Sorry mate, but thats a ridiculous statement. Fevsnoller is his own person. i can't see the point in comparing Neagle to him..I really don't.
BTW..Gumbleton isn't finished yet. There's been alot of time and effort spent by the club on this bloke and they arn't gunna give up on him as quick as you're suggesting.
BTW..Gumbleton isn't finished yet. There's been alot of time and effort spent by the club on this bloke and they arn't gunna give up on him as quick as you're suggesting.
totally agree, theres no way the dons are going to give up on gumby just yet. the kid is our no.1 draft pick and the wraps on him are still huge. we just need to get his body right, get a good season under his belt.
winderlich has the exact same back injury/ survgery. so the fact he has made a full recovery to be such an important player is only a positive for young scotty. lets not become like other clubs supporters and start writing players off before theyve even been given a fair shot
fishguts
22 Jun 2009, 21:32
Sorry mate, but thats a ridiculous statement. Fevsnoller is his own person. i can't see the point in comparing Neagle to him..I really don't.
Fevola is the type of forward that Neagle would/will become. Sure mentality wise they may be different, but they have quite a few similar attributes.
BTW..Gumbleton isn't finished yet. There's been alot of time and effort spent by the club on this bloke and they arn't gunna give up on him as quick as you're suggesting.
Agree, just because he has been out for 2 years doesn't dismiss the talent. For an example I will use Joel Selwood. He suffered an ACL in his draft year which left serious question marks over him. Geelong showed a lot of balls in picking him, gave him a chance and once he got over the injury, he won the rising star.
For Gumbleton, one thing and one thing alone will decide whether he lives up to his potential, and that is character.
fishguts
22 Jun 2009, 21:35
winderlich has the exact same back injury/ survgery. so the fact he has made a full recovery to be such an important player is only a positive for young scotty. lets not become like other clubs supporters and start writing players off before theyve even been given a fair shot
Not totally the same back surgery, but similar enough. What we are hoping on is that the back was indeed was the cause of his hamstring issues and thus ending the Gumbleton debacle.
Winderlich is a very lucky man, that needs to be noted. DOn't expect Gumby to come out of it as well as Licha has.
cooper6
22 Jun 2009, 21:45
Sorry mate, but thats a ridiculous statement. Fevsnoller is his own person. i can't see the point in comparing Neagle to him..I really don't.
BTW..Gumbleton isn't finished yet. There's been alot of time and effort spent by the club on this bloke and they arn't gunna give up on him as quick as you're suggesting.
what? the thread says 'if needed', not 'when they dont make it'. i have not said that either of them cannot make it, nor have i said essendon shouldnt persist with either of them, they certainly should. i have expressed concerns that at least 1 of them will not make it (which is highly possible). therefore, it would be ridiculous for essendon to not consider back up plans, like ones i have suggested. IF either dont make it, who should essendon look to?
cooper6
22 Jun 2009, 21:49
Sorry mate, but thats a ridiculous statement. Fevsnoller is his own person. i can't see the point in comparing Neagle to him..I really don't. .
i used the fevola comparison due to the fact that he is regularly described by others to have similar attributes.
Donakebab
22 Jun 2009, 21:52
Neagle is 21 and has played about a dozen games and you're saying he's done already? Do you know Fev's stats at the same point in his career are pretty much the same? Maybe you should know what you're talking about and give the kid some time to develop before you say he's finished.
Gumbleton is 22 and being given as much time as he needs to get up and fit. Thought that would be obvious with how much talk there is constantly about him. The club has faith, why don't you?
All that said, I'd love to see Darcy get a chance to play up front. Nice size, can take a good grab and already proved he can kick goals both in his junior days and at Bendigo, but with Scotty finding form again this isn't looking all too likely right now.
bombersno1
22 Jun 2009, 22:08
Simple, we have to draft another tall, but not this year we need a gun midfielder first!
bombersrbest05
22 Jun 2009, 22:13
Neagle is 21 and has played about a dozen games and you're saying he's done already? Do you know Fev's stats at the same point in his career are pretty much the same? Maybe you should know what you're talking about and give the kid some time to develop before you say he's finished.
Gumbleton is 22 and being given as much time as he needs to get up and fit. Thought that would be obvious with how much talk there is constantly about him. The club has faith, why don't you?
All that said, I'd love to see Darcy get a chance to play up front. Nice size, can take a good grab and already proved he can kick goals both in his junior days and at Bendigo, but with Scotty finding form again this isn't looking all too likely right now.
He is actually only 20 turning 21 in August, so this mean he is probably still growing and I agree with your statement of him giving as much time as he needs. We are not talking about Kepler Bradley here we are talking about a player that is 2nd pick overall in the "super draft" and has been compared to as a Nick Reiwoldt/Chris Grant type.
cooper6
22 Jun 2009, 22:34
Neagle is 21 and has played about a dozen games and you're saying he's done already? Do you know Fev's stats at the same point in his career are pretty much the same? Maybe you should know what you're talking about and give the kid some time to develop before you say he's finished.
Gumbleton is 22 and being given as much time as he needs to get up and fit. Thought that would be obvious with how much talk there is constantly about him. The club has faith, why don't you?
again, i never desicively said neagle wouldnt make it, i just have my doubts like many others. gumby i have big hopes for, although several years of injuries means it is a no-brainer to consider other options as BACKUPs, rather then saying 'theyre our men'. yes, these two are our priorities but as i keep saying, we need to consider BACKUPS! so who are our preferred backups?
Knight Ryders
22 Jun 2009, 22:50
Michael Still - "What about me?".
stay true
22 Jun 2009, 23:41
Jeez, Gumby is 20 years old.
Beau Muston had what... 3 knee reco's? He'll get over his injuries and show us all why we picked him at number 2.;)
All I will say is this, if we are looking for KP forwards in the long run, aside from Gumby and Neagle, then I want them to be exactly that and ONLY that. I don't want rotations between the backline and forwardline with players like Hurley.
Now, I dunno, I've seen enough of the game to know it can change at rapid pace. However, I highly doubt the game will develop into a utility-based team where the majority of the players are expected to play well enough as a forward, or backmen or even a midfielder if called upon. Sure some players rotate between a few, but until that day comes ... I want an out'n'out full forward lining up inside the square. None of this "let's push fletcher to full forward bullshit" -Kevin Sheedy.
Mad Bomber Sean
23 Jun 2009, 02:00
Ok fellas this is aint rocket science we need another Gun key forward. It should be our first priority in the 2009 Draft.
I am not talking about a replacement for our Gumby or Neagle.
We need to draft another genuine proven gun key forward to add depth & compete with Neagle & Gumby for a spot in the best 22. This new Key Fwd would also act as an insurance just in case neither of these guys reach there potential. Hey why cant this new guy be better than Gumby or Neagle ?
Will both Neagle and Gumby make it ?
It is up against them, especially Gumby. He's injury situation seems to be getting very challanging. It gets more difficult each year he's out of the game. His already low fitness base is suffering further. The back surgery was very serious and we should not assume he will be 100% fine afterwards ( as suggested by Fishguts in reference to Winda). He may never ever reach the lofty heights he was drafted for. - I pray he does but lets foolishly assume he will.
Neagle's rare ankle problems have limited his running and severly curtailed his already average fitness base. At the moment his deadly kicking & great marking keep making him a very interesting prospect bursting with promise. But his fitness is sub par. He desperately needs additional work in this area - I dont imagine he will be able to play consistant AFL standard footy for a year or two. It will even longer before we know
if he is to be relied upon every week to gig bags of goals week in week out. Where's Jobes' boxing coach ?
Our midfield, defence & ( with the development of Ryder) our Rucks are maturing very fast - our forward line however may not be ready if we simply rely on existing stocks - it makes complete sense to draft the best young proven gun key forward we can get our hands on it. If we dont we may simply miss the finals boat..
I think our best bet would be to develop one of our young defenders preferably Daniher who from most reports was able to swing through both ends of the ground comfortably as a junior.
Would be interested to hear Ants thoughts on the potential key forwards in the current draft as most indications i've seen around the boards point towards it being a rather weak draft so a first round pick should be spent on the best available talent instead of a horses for courses pick, if there's another Selwood/Rich left when we pick this year we should definitely jump at them instead of picking a tall who otherwise wouldn't be a first rounder.
I don't think we need to rush into this again. Gumby will hopefully fire next year, and we still have Still to come in next year or the following year.
centurion
23 Jun 2009, 09:01
There is a lot of hope, without substance.
The fact we have these kids such as Gumby and Neagle, and they're stagnating due to a variety of reasons is very worrying.
Ideally, they should both be playing each week. But they're not and that concerns me greatly for the future. We haven't even seen Still yet. Therefore, we don't know if he can cut it. Don't get me wrong fellow brothers, i want to see Gumby, Neagle and Still make it and become champion forwards like the rest of you, but im really worried.
It will be interesting at draft time this year.
table tennis
23 Jun 2009, 09:07
I suppose Cleve Hughes is the answer.............
GIVE THE BLOODY KIDS SOME TIME. FFS
FEVOLA TOOK 5 YEARS TO COME ON.
bipolarbeaR
23 Jun 2009, 10:36
GIVE THE BLOODY KIDS SOME TIME. FFS
FEVOLA TOOK 5 YEARS TO COME ON.
Well said, this topic is stupid.
Gumby will make it, Neagle will too, just needs a pre-season and this year in the seconds.
Slatteryexpress
23 Jun 2009, 11:00
It is up against them, especially Gumby. He's injury situation seems to be getting very challanging. It gets more difficult each year he's out of the game. His already low fitness base is suffering further.
Gumby was running super human times in the beep test in this preseason, there is no problem with his fitness. As soon as he is 100% it won't take long to tap into that fitness base.
This was the point of the Cleve Hughes thread (whether you agree that he may be a realistic option is another story).
I am confident that Neagle's development is tracking with Hawkins' and that they are on par for young key forwards. I am confident that Neagle has enough about him to kick 100 in a year.
Gumbleton looks something special. It is all in the way he moves, he is so tall, yet he moves like a smaller bloke.
You can say that they will make it all that you want (and that they deserve time) but it seems to be a little risky to pin the hopes of the forward (in the long and short term) on a player who cannot get on the park and another player whose has to have question marks over his dedication and fitness (Neagle is not a pretty sight and there are plenty of players with injury problems that dont carry the excess baggage that he does).
Alternatives need to be explored because, if nothing else, competition for spots can only ever be a good thing.
Colin D'Cops
23 Jun 2009, 11:04
Would be interested to hear Ants thoughts on the potential key forwards in the current draft as most indications i've seen around the boards point towards it being a rather weak draft...
I'm not ant555, but I'll post my thoughts on that matter anyway. Obviously if you're even remotely interested in the draft happenings, John Butcher (VC) is the head of the KP range at the moment. He is a lovely mark and can kick a nice goal. Played really well in last years Champs, and has done what is required this year to cement his spot in the top 3 you would think. Jack Fitzpatrick (VM) is another who is a nice KP/R prospect, versatile tall that can take a nice mark. Stands at 201cm, and is above average for his height in the speed department. Sam Day (WA) looks a nice prospect as well with his height (196cm) & agility combination, but he is a bottom-ager and you would suspect the GC might swoop on him in 2010. Matthew Panos (SA) has played at CHF for the majority of the carnival thus far, and has impressed a few people. Great marking capabilities overhead, quick off the lead and is quite an accurate quick for goal. Is available to be picked up this year, but unsure where he may be taken. Possibly early second round, but still plenty of time yet to make more accurate judgements. Troy Taylor (NT) is another likely KPF prospect that could feature early in this years draft. You could say the same for David Astbury (VC), who stands at 193cms but not quite as classy some claim.
hateitorlovett13
23 Jun 2009, 16:25
Why do you think we drafted Still? Leading goal kicker in the TAC cup as an underage player, no mean feat.
Hurley can be used forward, as can Daniher; get a decent pre season and some fitness under Neagle's belt, and Gumby another year at least.
We'll be right.
EFL Boy
23 Jun 2009, 18:05
It appears unlikely to me now that both Neagle and Gumbleton will make it. I think this is our biggest concern by a long way. With Gumbleton's injuries and Neagle's future as a Fevola-like forward looking very unlikely
I don't think anyone here thinks Neagle will turn into an absolute tosser. :confused:
still, gumby, neagle, daniher all potential to be good kpf. Not to mention ryder who in his breif time there has shown tallent. With hille back Ryder provides another leading tall forward. Not to mention Hurley. I beilieve dispite what people think we are not in need of another KPF as much as people suggest. unless there is a superstar Kpf (considerably best available) then we shouldnt be looking for one with high draft picks rather try to pick young tallents like we did with Still and see how they go.
I'm not ant555, but I'll post my thoughts on that matter anyway. Obviously if you're even remotely interested in the draft happenings, John Butcher (VC) is the head of the KP range at the moment. He is a lovely mark and can kick a nice goal. Played really well in last years Champs, and has done what is required this year to cement his spot in the top 3 you would think. Jack Fitzpatrick (VM) is another who is a nice KP/R prospect, versatile tall that can take a nice mark. Stands at 201cm, and is above average for his height in the speed department. Sam Day (WA) looks a nice prospect as well with his height (196cm) & agility combination, but he is a bottom-ager and you would suspect the GC might swoop on him in 2010. Matthew Panos (SA) has played at CHF for the majority of the carnival thus far, and has impressed a few people. Great marking capabilities overhead, quick off the lead and is quite an accurate quick for goal. Is available to be picked up this year, but unsure where he may be taken. Possibly early second round, but still plenty of time yet to make more accurate judgements. Troy Taylor (NT) is another likely KPF prospect that could feature early in this years draft. You could say the same for David Astbury (VC), who stands at 193cms but not quite as classy some claim.
Thanks for the info. Apart from Butcher who is odds on to go to Melbourne with either pick 1 or 2 I haven't heard much about the others as we get nil coverage of the champs in Tassie that i'm aware of and apart from what can be read on this board and others (most you can take with a grain of salt) the only access we have to how the kids are travelling is the few writeups the herald sun have.
I guess only time will tell if the others are worth a top 10 pick. I tend to get the feeling that when I guy like Cornelius goes from being a potential top 5 pick to landing at Brisbane at pick 57 that the key positions were raided hard last year for a reason thus my thoughts that this bunch may be mediocre at best outside of Butcher.
Colin D'Cops
24 Jun 2009, 10:19
Outside of Butcher, there certainly is a bit of 'daylight' after him but there are still some nice, handy talls available as usual.
table tennis
24 Jun 2009, 10:22
Outside of Butcher, there certainly is a bit of 'daylight' after him but there are still some nice, handy talls available as usual.
I think Fitzpatrick has been on Essendons Radar for a while. Depending on who we take early. If there is a gun Midfielder still available RD 1. we would be crazy not to take him. We might end up getting a Fitzpartrick 2nd round etc.
Good Western Suburbs boy too.
fishguts
24 Jun 2009, 10:56
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Still selected as he would be a top 10 draft pick this year? Much like Reimers was?
table tennis
24 Jun 2009, 11:01
Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Still selected as he would be a top 10 draft pick this year? Much like Reimers was?
As far as were all to believe.
Its hard to gauge how Still is going as he hasn't played a lot of footy this season.
However, He seems an exciting prospect. Im not sure whether our greatest dependency is in the forward line. My own thinking is that we need the best available Ruckman in the draft. Im not sure who he is.
I think Lloyd will go on for another 2-3 years and in that time we will find another big forward from Ryder, Daniher, Gumby, Neagle or Still.
I have no doubt that Neagle can become a star full forward, he just needs some fitness and some more experience. I assume Gumbleton will be fine but if things go bad with him I'd go with Laycock or Daniher as key forwards. Right now I'd stay persistent with Neagle and hope that he gets some fitness along the way.
AlwaysRight
24 Jun 2009, 20:26
Michael Still will to be a back up option for them.
are u kidding? ohhhh ok than
well u should definately trade gumbleton to richmond :)
if his not gonna make it we will give u lets say JON and a 3rd rounder?
i reckon u would be madddd to think gumby wont make a good player
eth-dog
26 Jun 2009, 14:12
are u kidding? ohhhh ok than
well u should definately trade gumbleton to richmond :)
if his not gonna make it we will give u lets say JON and a 3rd rounder?
i reckon u would be madddd to think gumby wont make a good player
we'd take Hughes + a second rounder
Slattery_20
26 Jun 2009, 15:30
I am not talking about a replacement for our Gumby or Neagle.
We need to draft another genuine proven gun key forward to add depth & compete with Neagle & Gumby for a spot in the best 22. This new Key Fwd would also act as an insurance just in case neither of these guys reach there potential. Hey why cant this new guy be better than Gumby or Neagle ?
Well there should be an abundance of proven gun key forwards in the draft. Notwithstanding that only a very few of them have ever played seniors. Heavens above.
Talk about expecting too much! Exactly why some people get so angry when player XXX, who has been touted as John Coleman meets Jesus Christ, hasn't won a brownlow in their first year.
We'll probably draft a tall forward (we obviously don't need any more tall backs). But seriously... very few talls produce anything until 3 years in the system.