Tossers who knock our players. [Archive]

ScouseCat

25 Feb 2003, 20:51

Originally posted by acuguy
Warne deserves some criticsm but is not open slather on him. Short memories some people specialise in.

I agree... Shane Warne made a silly mistake and will cop the punishment he has received for it and rightly so, but for anyone to suggest he is a cheat just goes to show how little they understand about the game and for that matter, sport in general.

The last time I checked, a cheat is someone who deliberately breaks the rules in order to gain an advantage... Shane Warne certainly didn't do that otherwise he'd have been taking drugs for years.

dr nick

25 Feb 2003, 21:09

Originally posted by ScouseCat

The last time I checked, a cheat is someone who deliberately breaks the rules in order to gain an advantage... Shane Warne certainly didn't do that otherwise he'd have been taking drugs for years.

absolute rubbish. i dont for a minute think that he's been taking drugs for years, but taking banned drugs to aid a shoulder recovery is most definitely cheating, and the panel found him guilty of that, thats why the charge was "prohibited method"

i think that people who buy a story that he takes prescription pills off his mum would believe the nonsense excuse of every other athlete caught red handed.

dr nick

25 Feb 2003, 21:15

and i dont know if its just the victorian bias in this board, but where i come from, every man and his dog is intelligent enough to see through warne's front and understand what really happened here.

i'd be interested if some people could shed some light as to what the general feeling is towards the issue in melbourne, because in sydney, i have yet to come across a single person who does not think shane warne should have got 2 years.

the only people i have heard think shane warne is innocent are the mentally disabled folk who ring up talkback radio and claim that because they used to take their mums medication themselves, shane must be telling the truth.

GhostofJimJess

25 Feb 2003, 21:44

Shane Warne is the one of the best bowlers I have ever seen, and I don't think I have ever had more enjoyment from watching a bowler ever.

Shane Warne has also flouted the rules that we Australians so faithfully and vehemently defend when it's a player from "somewhere else" who's at fault. I still believe that he's pretty bloody fortunate to get off with just a one year suspension.

His PR people should also instruct him to immediately pull his head in before he makes an even bigger joke out of himself. It's getting embarrassing whenever he goes near a microphone. You watch, he'll be on the "Footy Show" in a few weeks, and they'll be treating him like a king. (Just like they treated John Elliot right up until the very end, strangely enough!)

Add your favorite Shane Warne media quotes below. I'll start things off with a chestnut from tonights ACA.

Shane Warne : "I'm a human being. So is my family"

JUBJUB

25 Feb 2003, 21:49

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess

His PR people should also instruct him to immediately pull his head in before he makes an even bigger joke out of himself. It's getting embarrassing whenever he goes near a microphone. You watch, he'll be on the "Footy Show" in a few weeks, and they'll be treating him like a king. (Just like they treated John Elliot right up until the very end, strangely enough!)

The Eddie Show is back next week and I'll be amazed if Warne isn't on.Sam give a bagging about the suspension & of course Warne will get a hero's welcome [because they'll want him to appear regularly].

Becker

26 Feb 2003, 06:27

Originally posted by acuguy
I am getting really annoyed with some ****ers on bigfooty that are constantly critiscising and knocking down our great cricketers. If you are sick of this **** as well, let the world know.

I agree with you. I've had a gutful of people bagging great players, usually out of jealousy more than anything. The Tall Poppy Syndrome is alive and thriving on this forum.
There is one idiot in particular who continues to bag Brett Lee even though he is well and truly through his bad patch and now back to bowling well. I just put it down to the fact that some people are jealous and others are ignorant.
And I just love the way some people claim, "I just don't like him". Odds would be that they've never met the person.
It's quite simple people, if you don't like watching the best cricket team in the world, do something else and spare us of your mindless dribble.

moomba

26 Feb 2003, 06:55

Originally posted by Becker
I agree with you. I've had a gutful of people bagging great players, usually out of jealousy more than anything. The Tall Poppy Syndrome is alive and thriving on this forum.
There is one idiot in particular who continues to bag Brett Lee even though he is well and truly through his bad patch and now back to bowling well. I just put it down to the fact that some people are jealous and others are ignorant.
And I just love the way some people claim, "I just don't like him". Odds would be that they've never met the person.

Not as simple as that. When an Australian player acts like a d1ck, people will, with justification, criticise them. Warne has acted like a d1ck many times, as has Lee (IMO), as have several others in the Australian team on occasion. The simple fact is that being able to score a heap of runs or take a heap of wickets does not make you a quality human being, and should make you exempt from criticism.

It's quite simple people, if you don't like watching the best cricket team in the world, do something else and spare us of your mindless dribble.

I'd much rather hear a critical view, regardless of the sport or the club than the sycophantic, can do no wrong crap that seems to follow the Australian cricket team. It might not suit you, but the ignore button is not too hard to press.

Moomba

ScouseCat

26 Feb 2003, 06:59

Originally posted by nicko18
and i dont know if its just the victorian bias in this board, but where i come from, every man and his dog is intelligent enough to see through warne's front and understand what really happened here.

i'd be interested if some people could shed some light as to what the general feeling is towards the issue in melbourne, because in sydney, i have yet to come across a single person who does not think shane warne should have got 2 years.

Talk about NSW bias.... this doesn't surprise me one little bit.

TheMase

26 Feb 2003, 07:28

Originally posted by ScouseCat
TheMase = from NSW = Stuart MacGill fan.

Shane Warne = World's greatest leg-spinner = from Victoria.

Surprised??? Not in the slightest. :p

Warne is a cheat. I have never liked the guy. Even before I knew about MacGill.

Pull your head in :mad:

TheMase

26 Feb 2003, 07:45

Originally posted by ScouseCat
I agree... Shane Warne made a silly mistake and will cop the punishment he has received for it and rightly so, but for anyone to suggest he is a cheat just goes to show how little they understand about the game and for that matter, sport in general.

The last time I checked, a cheat is someone who deliberately breaks the rules in order to gain an advantage... Shane Warne certainly didn't do that otherwise he'd have been taking drugs for years.

Which ever way you look at it, Warne comes out as a cheat.
The book makers saga, and now this.

If you believe the "mum gave it to me" line, then you have rocks in your head.

He was found guilty of taking a prohibited drug. That is cheating. Cheating IMO is breaking the laws set down by the governing body.

Foxtrot

26 Feb 2003, 07:48

Originally posted by ScouseCat
Talk about NSW bias.... this doesn't surprise me one little bit.

Whilst it is clear you treat this NSW v Vic rivalry thing very seriously, it is my sad duty to inform you it ammounts to less than a hill of beans to the average New South Welshman (as I'm sure it does to the average Victorian). That's not to say we don't have paranoid conspiracy theorists and elite sportsmen apologists up here too - we do. But the general feeling I have encountered re. Shane Warne is he got caught cheating and got what he deserved (or not quite) - and the lack of sympathy he is receiving is due to the fact that he has shown himself to be a bit of an arsehole many times during his outstanding cricketing career.

If the same thing happened to Pat Rafter, most NSW people would exhibit the shock and disbelief you obviously seek for Shane because apart from his outstanding ability on the tennis court, most fans think he is a genuine, likeable, straight up person. The fact he is a Queenslander (if you've ever been up here you'd know they are way ahead of Victoria in the all important boo-hiss rivalry stakes) is neither here nor there - everyone loves the bloke.

Warne is one of the greatest cricketers I have ever seen but as Moomba said (what?!? I'm agreeing with a Victorian?!?) being an elite athlete in this country too often means your behaviour is exempt from the normal criticisms the average joe gets when he falls out of line.

Jars458

26 Feb 2003, 09:29

Originally posted by ScouseCat
TheMase = from NSW = Stuart MacGill fan.

Shane Warne = World's greatest leg-spinner = from Victoria.

Surprised??? Not in the slightest. :p

Why am I not a Brad Young fan then?

Jars458

26 Feb 2003, 09:32

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
. You watch, he'll be on the "Footy Show" in a few weeks, and they'll be treating him like a king. (Just like they treated John Elliot right up until the very end, strangely enough!)

Very true

John Elliot is going to be on the first Footy Show of the year. Interesting to see how they deal with him.

Sydneyfan

26 Feb 2003, 10:20

Well said moomba and Foxtrot. Just because he's a brilliant cricketer doesn't make him exempt from criticism when he acts like a dill, something he's also seems quite talented at. ;)

I think a problem in Australian society is that we tend to laud our sports stars on such lofty pedestals that some start to believe their own publicity and believe they're exempt from criticism or the laws that govern us 'ordinary' folk. Warne became a victim of his own publicity believing he could act anyway he wishes, do as he wishes, all because he's Shane Warne. Sadly (much like Wayne Carey learnt last year), you can only get away with so much being a sports star.

dr nick

26 Feb 2003, 10:53

Originally posted by ScouseCat
Talk about NSW bias.... this doesn't surprise me one little bit.

oh, so if you think if muttiah muralitharan made such a miracle recovery from an "elbow" injury, and was caught with masking agents in his urine saying that he got them from his mum, you would also think that he was telling the truth and so should avoid punishment??

stop trotting out your obvious bias and see through the fact that he is a victorian.

JUBJUB

26 Feb 2003, 12:32

Originally posted by Jars458
Why am I not a Brad Young fan then?

because you have a brain. :D

Becker

26 Feb 2003, 14:08

Originally posted by moomba
Not as simple as that. When an Australian player acts like a d1ck, people will, with justification, criticise them. Warne has acted like a d1ck many times, as has Lee (IMO), as have several others in the Australian team on occasion. The simple fact is that being able to score a heap of runs or take a heap of wickets does not make you a quality human being, and should make you exempt from criticism.

[b]

I'd much rather hear a critical view, regardless of the sport or the club than the sycophantic, can do no wrong crap that seems to follow the Australian cricket team. It might not suit you, but the ignore button is not too hard to press.

Moomba

Missing the point entirely Moomba. I'm not saying Aussie cricketers can do no wrong, I haven't agreed with a number of things they have done and have posted that way in the past.
What I am saying is there are some idiots on here who have nothing good to say about anything, all they do is criticize.
Just as you may like the more rounded opinions, so do I. I just believe if someone does something well, why not commend their efforts? Anyone can be critical, especally the arm chair experts on this forum.
I posted on this site some time back saying how well I thought Brett Lee bowled in one match, all the media agreed with this. However I was howled done by the most ridiculous comments, most of them totally irrelevant to the comments I made.
All I am really saying here is if people are going to criticise someone, please be fair about it, not stupid.
I've made mistakes in life, I admit it. But the way some people sound off in here you would think they've never made a mistake in their lives. Show me someone who hasn't made a mistake, and I'll show you someone who hasn't done anything.

elt

26 Feb 2003, 14:19

Originally posted by nicko18
absolute rubbish. i dont for a minute think that he's been taking drugs for years, but taking banned drugs to aid a shoulder recovery is most definitely cheating, and the panel found him guilty of that, thats why the charge was "prohibited method"

I think you need to read the actual judgement. They stated that the mere presence of the diuretic in system was enough for a case of a prohibited method to be proven, regardless of whether or not it was being used as a masking agent. The dieuretic itself isn't going to do anything to help him.

They also stated that the shoulder recovered in a normal period of time and that steroids would not have assisted in that recovery.

The ACB are to blame for all the speculation and misconceptions in the "prohibited method" debate. They shouldn't have handed down the verdict and suspension until they had the judgement details ready for public release.

Macca19

26 Feb 2003, 14:53

Originally posted by Becker
The Tall Poppy Syndrome is alive and thriving on this forum.

Morons response.

Why does every ****ing thing have to be Tall Poppy Syndrome? Is this the catch phrase of the year or something?? Why cant people dislike Warne because they think he is a lying moron who has acted like an immature kid on more than one occasion, lied on more than one occasion and think he is a tool?? I mean for **** sake. I think Warne is a god, but he is a moron! Yet because i dont wanna suck his d**k and because i think he is a moron i must suffer from Tall Poppy Syndrome. :rolleyes:

Same thing goes for Lleyton Hewitt and people that dislike him. Hes an arrogant little ****, but STOP...I dont think he is gods gift to the universe and i dont wanna give him sexual favours so that must mean im jealous of him and suffer from Tall Poppy Syndrome. Get real.

Why cant Australians just dislike someone because they dont like their personality and not be accused of Tall Poppy Syndrome. Why do all Australians have to love every single one of our sportsmen???

Port01

26 Feb 2003, 15:54

All bias aside...

Bevan is a selfish hack.

and Brett Lee chucks.

thankyou.

skilts

26 Feb 2003, 16:05

If Warne were a serious drug cheat, he'd never have been found out. If you are really going to indulge in performance-enhancing drugs, you'd have better advice than he's obviously had. He IS a dunderhead, though I doubt he's a cheat. I don't reckon he's smart enough to do that.

The rule of thumb about performance-enhancing drugs is that the users/suppliers are about a year ahead of the testers at any given time. If Warne was a systematic user of 'roids he would have had better masking. The real cheats never get caught. This shows drug- testing to be the farce that it is.

acuguy

26 Feb 2003, 16:53

I am from brisbane, so no bias here. My only bias is towards great Australian players that are major reasons in our victories and making us the best team in the world. This is only where my bias lays.

dr nick

26 Feb 2003, 18:02

Originally posted by skilts
If Warne were a serious drug cheat, he'd never have been found out. If you are really going to indulge in performance-enhancing drugs, you'd have better advice than he's obviously had. He IS a dunderhead, though I doubt he's a cheat. I don't reckon he's smart enough to do that.

The rule of thumb about performance-enhancing drugs is that the users/suppliers are about a year ahead of the testers at any given time. If Warne was a systematic user of 'roids he would have had better masking. The real cheats never get caught. This shows drug- testing to be the farce that it is.

thats absolute rubbish.

the only drug that was ahead of its time in terms of not being detected was EPO, which is basically the same as taking your own blood, storing it, and whilst the body replenishes its blood cell count, the extra blood is injected back in.

these days, they have almost 100% efficiency in detecting performance enhancing / masking agents in urine, and for criminal purposes, the blood test is used.

you just made up that rule of thumb argument to suit.

dr nick

26 Feb 2003, 18:12

and just a further point, ive done a bit of research and discovered that moduretic is probably the most powerful diuretic out there. so in terms of masking agents, its probably the best. it is so powerful it flushes the body almost clean out of any trace of other banned agents (steroids and anti-inflammatories) in less than 12 hours. most diuretics take 2-3 days. so unless you have a test within this time frame, you will not be caught.

PS: look at some diuretics websites and you will see that their nickname is a "water pill"
shane warne knew full well what a diuretic was, it doesnt wash when he claims he didnt pay attention when he was told the 10-20 times during his career.

GhostofJimJess

26 Feb 2003, 21:51

Originally posted by Macca19
Morons response.

Why does every ****ing thing have to be Tall Poppy Syndrome? Is this the catch phrase of the year or something?? Why cant people dislike Warne because they think he is a lying moron who has acted like an immature kid on more than one occasion, lied on more than one occasion and think he is a tool?? I mean for **** sake. I think Warne is a god, but he is a moron! Yet because i dont wanna suck his d**k and because i think he is a moron i must suffer from Tall Poppy Syndrome. :rolleyes:

Same thing goes for Lleyton Hewitt and people that dislike him. Hes an arrogant little ****, but STOP...I dont think he is gods gift to the universe and i dont wanna give him sexual favours so that must mean im jealous of him and suffer from Tall Poppy Syndrome. Get real.

Why cant Australians just dislike someone because they dont like their personality and not be accused of Tall Poppy Syndrome. Why do all Australians have to love every single one of our sportsmen???

Exactly right, Macca.

And if it was genuinely Tall Poppy Syndrome, then we'd be also trying to drag down the likes of Tendulkar, Lara, Akram, Fleming Vaughn etc... But we don't. And why? Because they behave like gentlemen both on and off the cricket field.

One thing I've been contemplating for quite a while now, when considering the shameful run of warnings, fines, suspensions etc.. imposed on Aussie players over the last five years (Is there an Aussie player who hasn't transgressed the rules of fair play in that time?).

.... Are we our own worst enemy ?

That is, given the amazing success of the Aussie team of late, and the level of pressure from the immense player depth we have in this country, are the players being pushed too hard from underneath, forcing them to act and react as they do. After all, they must be under so much pressure from their own competitors for places in the squad. Maybe they're cracking a little under the strain ....

On the other side of the coin, there is little pressure on the Poms, for example, as they do not have the surge of talent from outside the present team, and therefore may not have the same need for achievement to survive in the team ....

spring6

27 Feb 2003, 04:12

I am from Wa so no bias here either. Shane Warne did a very silly thing taking diet pills (which no matter why you think he did it is what he did) and got the punishment he had to get for the good of the game. it does not change the fact he is one of the greatest australian cricketers of all time. i get sick of people running down the australian players too, we have the best team in the world, lets enjoy it, it wont last for ever.

Becker

27 Feb 2003, 06:17

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess

And if it was genuinely Tall Poppy Syndrome, then we'd be also trying to drag down the likes of Tendulkar, Lara, Akram, Fleming Vaughn etc... But we don't. And why? Because they behave like gentlemen both on and off the cricket field.

And none of them play for Australia. Don't worry, if Tendulkar played for Australia there would be idiots trying to tear him down. Being a gentleman has nothing to do with it, I've seen plenty of rubbish being hurled at players like Gilchrist and Mark Waugh whose on field manner cannot be questioned.
It's very much an Australian thing, there is an element out there who just love to knock all things Australian. I wouldn't mind it if it came came other countries but I get very annoyed when it comes from within.
Come to think of it, I wouldn't be so sure we don't try to drag down others. Players like Viv Richards, Richard Hadlee, and countless others have a different tale ot tell about Australian "fans".

dr nick

27 Feb 2003, 09:04

Originally posted by Becker
And none of them play for Australia. Don't worry, if Tendulkar played for Australia there would be idiots trying to tear him down. Being a gentleman has nothing to do with it, I've seen plenty of rubbish being hurled at players like Gilchrist and Mark Waugh whose on field manner cannot be questioned.
It's very much an Australian thing, there is an element out there who just love to knock all things Australian. I wouldn't mind it if it came came other countries but I get very annoyed when it comes from within.
Come to think of it, I wouldn't be so sure we don't try to drag down others. Players like Viv Richards, Richard Hadlee, and countless others have a different tale ot tell about Australian "fans".

hmm, im not too sure about your theory. the only player i feel has ripped off and cheated the australian cricket public is shane warne. he has single handedly IMO put a stain on a side which will be talked about for decades as one of the best ever. i personally do not have a gripe with any other player in the australian team, and i think our current australian side is full of legends and superstars. i have never knocked brett lee. i occasionally critisize the decision to have symonds and harvey in the side but im not having a go at them, good on them for getting picked, its mainly some of the selections that worry me.

i think you exaggerate when people on here just drag down everyone. some recent remarks about several players have been justified, but i reckon you forget about all the positive stuff which gets said on these boards too.

comments about brett lee acting like a spoilt brat have been justified. critisism of lehmann when he made a racist slur was also justified. but lets not forget all the threads that have been praising the two.

if you are suggesting that the players are above critisism then i think you are way off the mark. very few (but some) on these boards i reckon have a genuine hate for some players and will twist every little action of theirs into a negative, but thats the extreme minority. players deserve critisism when they bring it upon themselves. but they also get heaps of hero worhip too.

Becker

27 Feb 2003, 12:34

Originally posted by nicko18
if you are suggesting that the players are above critisism then i think you are way off the mark. very few (but some) on these boards i reckon have a genuine hate for some players and will twist every little action of theirs into a negative, but thats the extreme minority. players deserve critisism when they bring it upon themselves. but they also get heaps of hero worhip too.

I'm not suggesting players are above criticism. I just wonder what makes people feel they have the right to criticise things they would know little about.
How many of us on this forum would understand the pressures of playing sport at an elite level? It's all very well imagining how we would react in certain situations, but unless we walk a mile in their shoes we will never fully understand.
I wouldn't mind betting that some of the "holier than thou" attitudes expressed come from people who are unable to hadle the pressure of a social Saturday afternoon game let alone the pressure cooker of international cricket.
I just cannot cpmprehend why people feel the need to criticise what they don't understand.

dogboy23

27 Feb 2003, 12:54

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess
Lara, Akram behave like gentlemen both on and off the cricket field.

Your kidding arn't you?Warney is more of a "gentlemen" than those 2 put together.Its crazy to suggest Warne was trying to gain any sort of competitive advantage by using these drugs.What on earth could he have to gain from such a thing.He is arguably close to the best bowler in the history of the game.He has done some stupid things (all of which were overblown just like this) but he is not a drugs cheat.

RogerC

27 Feb 2003, 16:29

"Tall Poppy Syndrome" is just an excuse paraded about by rich and famous people as an excuse to write their own rules. Most of them don't feel the need to resort to this sort of self-pitying whining, and for that I'm grateful.

I'm sure our sportsmen are under tremendous pressure. As are many, many people in this world - stress isn't the exclusive province of the high-profile. And they have the whacking big consolation of being paid very handsomely for what they do, and truckloads of adulation.

And it sure as hell doesn't exempt them from punishment when they break the rules. And boiled down to its essentials, that is what Warne did. I think a lot of Australians have a right to be angry with him, not only for sullying the image of Australian cricket, but for sulking about a perfectly fair decision and offering a defence that wasn't even truthful.

I'm still trying to get my head around why Warne would brazenly lie to a hearing that he took only one tablet, and then come out and confess on national television days later that he took two.

Holycrap

27 Feb 2003, 19:36

Originally posted by RogerC
I'm still trying to get my head around why Warne would brazenly lie to a hearing that he took only one tablet, and then come out and confess on national television days later that he took two.

Quite easy RogerC, Warnie and Carey are obviously related????

All this crap of state bias, cricketers/elite sportsmans above the law to Tall Poppy.... is just that, a bunch of crap.

Look at the facts, he was found with one of the most powerful diuretic in his system. Then he is investigated and tells that he took it on advice of his mum for vanity purposes, he later confesses to taking more than one, confirms his ignorance by stating he doesn't care about world events nor did he listen (or care) to all the ACB and VCA drug seminars (which is held at the start of each season), later he refuses to appeal on the grounds that ASDA may increase it to the full term of 2 years?
Sounds like he is hiding something???

I personally love Shane Warne the cricketer but he got caught with a banned substance and now playing dumb - l would have given him 2 years just for his ignorance. Every top athlete worth their salt, knows that this is atop banned substance list and sports administrators don't take blatant ignorance as an excuse. If he wants to proclaim his innocents and his creditability, take a blood test? Oh no, that may show up other things?

Gerad Healy and co are vocal about relaxing the drug penalties , what for? For the sake of the Australian team, Nike, Channel Nine?
If this had been Muli, Aktar, Lara, Akram, Cairns, Pollock etc.. and got 1 year, I'm sure 99% of list and this country would have called it outrageous and call for the full term of 2 years!

Now, you tell me where the bias is?

Becker

28 Feb 2003, 06:27

Originally posted by Holycrap
If this had been Muli, Aktar, Lara, Akram, Cairns, Pollock etc.. and got 1 year, I'm sure 99% of list and this country would have called it outrageous and call for the full term of 2 years!

Now, you tell me where the bias is?

Please tell me how some of these players will ever get a 1 year suspension when they are never drug tested? Not every nation has a comprehensive drug testing policy like Australia has.
That's where the bias is.

Holycrap

28 Feb 2003, 07:25

Originally posted by Becker
Please tell me how some of these players will ever get a 1 year suspension when they are never drug tested? Not every nation has a comprehensive drug testing policy like Australia has.
That's where the bias is.

You've missed the point...it isn't about whether they have drug testing programs (NZ, Sth Africa and Wst Indies have and the ICC drug test all nations during ICC sanction events), it's about our bias towards our sportsmen.
Of course it is quite natural to be bias to one's on country's sportsmen and as l have alluded, if this was a case of another country's cricketer, we would be screaming blue murder?

Lets not forget that the ICC minimum penalty for this offence is 2 years. They, seeing that we have one of the best anti-drug programs in the world, allowed the ACB to handle this case.

elt

28 Feb 2003, 08:31

The ICC minimum penalty is two years?

That's quite a trick considering they don't even have a drug code.

The reason the ACB held the hearing is because he tested positive here from ACB testing during an ACB event. It had nothing to do with the ICC trumpeting the glory of our testing regime.

dogboy23

28 Feb 2003, 08:49

Originally posted by RogerC

I'm still trying to get my head around why Warne would brazenly lie to a hearing that he took only one tablet, and then come out and confess on national television days later that he took two. You got that part wrong.He informed the hearing of the fact that he took 2 tablets.It was the public that he misinformed by telling them that he took 1.

Becker

28 Feb 2003, 09:40

Originally posted by Holycrap
You've missed the point...it isn't about whether they have drug testing programs (NZ, Sth Africa and Wst Indies have and the ICC drug test all nations during ICC sanction events), it's about our bias towards our sportsmen.
Of course it is quite natural to be bias to one's on country's sportsmen and as l have alluded, if this was a case of another country's cricketer, we would be screaming blue murder?

I haven't missed the point at all. I'll say it again ..... there is NO chance of some of these cricketers getting done for drug cheating because they are NEVER tested. How can we scream "blue murder" about the sentencing of another country's player for drug cheating if it will never happen?
At least Australia is trying to do something about the drug situation, let's see some of these other countries pull their fingers out and do something for a change.

dr nick

28 Feb 2003, 11:45

Originally posted by Becker
I haven't missed the point at all. I'll say it again ..... there is NO chance of some of these cricketers getting done for drug cheating because they are NEVER tested. How can we scream "blue murder" about the sentencing of another country's player for drug cheating if it will never happen?
At least Australia is trying to do something about the drug situation, let's see some of these other countries pull their fingers out and do something for a change.

now you are twisting things becker because the argument isnt going too well for you.

the point was made that if these players got caught with the same situation as warne, everyone, including warne himself, would be screaming for his blood.

you cannot possibly argue (avoid it, yes) but you cant argue that there would be the same willingness to believe shoaib akhtar's version of events if he was caught using moduretics, especially if his evidence was inconsistent.

dr nick

28 Feb 2003, 11:48

Originally posted by dogboy23
You got that part wrong.He informed the hearing of the fact that he took 2 tablets.It was the public that he misinformed by telling them that he took 1.

what was the "inconsistent" evidence warne provided?

i was of the belief that he told them he took "ONE" tablet, but when they found traces of a second in an earlier test, he (to the best of his recollection), admitted, yes i took ONE before the press conference in january, and another one then.

in other words he was claiming he never lied, he just never told the whole story :rolleyes:

Port01

28 Feb 2003, 15:02

Originally posted by Holycrap
You've missed the point...it isn't about whether they have drug testing programs (NZ, Sth Africa and Wst Indies have and the ICC drug test all nations during ICC sanction events), it's about our bias towards our sportsmen.
Of course it is quite natural to be bias to one's on country's sportsmen and as l have alluded, if this was a case of another country's cricketer, we would be screaming blue murder?

Lets not forget that the ICC minimum penalty for this offence is 2 years. They, seeing that we have one of the best anti-drug programs in the world, allowed the ACB to handle this case.

The World cup is the first time in history the ICC has drug tested players.

moomba

28 Feb 2003, 15:47

Originally posted by dogboy23
You got that part wrong.He informed the hearing of the fact that he took 2 tablets.It was the public that he misinformed by telling them that he took 1.

My understanding is that he lodged papers in his defence, that did not say anything about the second tablet. It was only after he was notified of the results of the test in December (he was notified two days before the tribunal hearing) that he changed his defence to include the statement about the second tablet.

Moomba

Holycrap

28 Feb 2003, 21:14

Originally posted by elt
The ICC minimum penalty is two years?

That's quite a trick considering they don't even have a drug code.

The reason the ACB held the hearing is because he tested positive here from ACB testing during an ACB event. It had nothing to do with the ICC trumpeting the glory of our testing regime.

The ICC's drug code is in line with the Olympic, IAAF and FINA drug codes.
In fact on the subject of diuretic's, EVERY world sporting body recognises this as a banned substances.
Also, every international test match and one dayers are technically, ICC santioned events as the match referee's and umpires are ICC appointed.

I agree, if the ICC want to get tough, test every player who plays international cricket, this will deter players from non-anti drug program countries from considering the cheaters approach.
:mad:

GhostofJimJess

1 Mar 2003, 13:08

Originally posted by dogboy23
Your kidding arn't you?Warney is more of a "gentlemen" than those 2 put together.Its crazy to suggest Warne was trying to gain any sort of competitive advantage by using these drugs.What on earth could he have to gain from such a thing.He is arguably close to the best bowler in the history of the game.He has done some stupid things (all of which were overblown just like this) but he is not a drugs cheat.

You just keep telling yourself that dogboy ...

And just for the record, Shane Warne is now - officially - a drug cheat. Whether you or I like it or not, he has used substances not legally available to other players of his code, and been caught. And then lied to the public about it.

The thing about Warney too is that whenever he has been caught engaging in any sex, drugs, assault or bookmaking scandals, he has always believed his greatest crime was actually getting caught.

As for Brian Lara - he has consistently shown himself to have a higher level of sportsmanship and fair play over the years than the entire Aussie team put together - those terms are not even in our vocabulary.

But if we all just keep saying "but Warney is such a great bowler", then maybe that makes things alright.

dr nick

1 Mar 2003, 14:54

Originally posted by GhostofJimJess

As for Brian Lara - he has consistently shown himself to have a higher level of sportsmanship and fair play over the years than the entire Aussie team put together .

i loved the way he walked to a VERY fine edge off chaminda vaas. that dismissal turned the match at that point, and could see the windies miss out of the super 6 stage, to him, honesty and fairness are paramount. i just hate it when umpires give him out when he doesnt walk, because you know if he doesnt, he hasnt hit it.

anyway for those of you who are wannabe experts on the subject of steroids, claiming that they could not possibly give warne an advantage...

steroids can be used to increase the endurance of muscle. it is not only explosive athletes who take them. by having muscle that fatigues slower you can better sustain a full day in the field, or even a test match (something that john buchanan once said warne couldnt do... last 5 days).

steroids help prolong the period in which you can build muscle. Cricketers at the gym might be restricted to hour workouts because they get too tired if they go for any longer. steroids not only enable you to work out for longer, but increase the stress on muscle during the workout.
"but leg spinners have no need for big muscles.."
RUBBISH!! ive seen footage of shane warne pumping iron many a time, so there must be some point to it. ive also seen recent pictures of him after the drugs scandal in sleevless tops, and lets just say his biceps are the envy of every guy.

i'm not too sure if they can aid in the recovery of injury... i thought they helped muscle repair quicker, but im not certain.