View Full Version : Hell freezes over: Thommo criticises something
http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2009/07/01/2613458.htm
Jeff Thomson believes Australia will win the upcoming Ashes series against England by a single Test despite slating the captaincy skills of Ricky Ponting.
Aussie pace great Thomson, 100 of whose 200 Test wickets came against England, has never been a fan of Ponting as a captain.
This is despite the fact the Tasmanian has been at the helm of an Australia side that has dominated the five-day game since the star batsman took charge five years ago.
"I thought Ricky was crap when he was first captain in 2004 and nothing much has improved since then," said 58-year-old Thomson at a lunch to launch the Ashes.
"I'm not the only one who thinks that. I've always bagged him and everyone at home thinks he's s*** at the captaincy...
As much as Punter is not the greatest captain in the world, does Thommo every shut up? Seriously, his whingeing is ridiculous.
Respected Journo
1 Jul 2009, 14:56
When anything goes wrong I just blame Ricky Ponting, if i get caught speeding I tell the police officer that it's Ricky Ponting's fault.
I thought Ponting was great in 2004, especially in Sri Lanka, his use of Lehmann as a bowled in the series was a revelation, Lehmann took a fair slice of wickets from memory. No McGrath either.
People have to remember that Thomm has a reputation to look after, he probably makes a fair bit of money from guest speaker roles, having a aura of being a wild man that abuses everyone probably helps him get more gigs.
People just have this expectation that "great" captains can win with any bowling attack because they use "bold" and "original" plans. That is a bigger myth then flying saucers. I've been watching cricket for 20 years and the only innovative tactic I've seen was Sri Lanka using the first 15 overs of an ODI game as a smash and grab period. Now that's pretty much common place, but other then that there have been no bold or imaginative tactics because they have all been tried before and the crap ones have been discarded. Aim at the top of off is a good bet as anything else.
As Australian fans we won't realise how important Ponting is to our side, both in terms of his batting ability and his captainicy, until he retires in 2 or so years.
Thommo belongs with john elliott - in the bargain basement irrelevancy bin. Sit down and shut up mate.
PalaceGun
1 Jul 2009, 15:19
Thommo spot on, yet again.
Can't argue with any of those points.
Only reason we'll beat England is due to their ineptness.
I've no idea what Hauritz is doing over there.
JimDocker
1 Jul 2009, 15:23
Thommo spot on, yet again.
Can't argue with any of those points.
Only reason we'll beat England is due to their ineptness.
I've no idea what Hauritz is doing over there.
You won't beat us !!!!!!!!
Respected Journo
1 Jul 2009, 15:24
I presume his there on an Ashes tour just quietly. LOL.
PalaceGun
1 Jul 2009, 15:35
You won't beat us !!!!!!!!
51 all out...
Old man syndrome here. Ridiculous comments.
Old man syndrome here. Ridiculous comments.
:thumbsu: - what rubbish he spoke. it erodes his legacy by making him look like a tool
JimDocker
1 Jul 2009, 17:27
51 all out...
Brilliant !
I love The Ashes. I have 3 Aussie mates coming over for the first night's play ! Hopefully, I have a good night....... and they don't.
ROO BOY IN W.A
1 Jul 2009, 23:05
Thommo you are a fool.You have a dig at Ponting then say we will win the Ashes.Ponting is the best Captain and i can not see anyone else doing the job he does.Instead of taking pot shots get in there and help or shut up.We have a few young guys comming through and Ricky is the man to take us to the top again.I back you 100% and good luck to the boys over there.
PalaceGun
1 Jul 2009, 23:43
Ponting is the best Captain and i can not see anyone else doing the job he does.
Katich would be a far better captain.
No one else is doing Ponting's job because no one else is employed to do his job...
Katich would be a far better captain.
No one else is doing Ponting's job because no one else is employed to do his job...
Ponting takes risks, as a captain should. I've had captain's who just defend. some of his risks don't come off, that is why he can be criticized. I'd rather Ponting as the aussie skipper than anyone else in the side
PalaceGun
2 Jul 2009, 12:07
Risks? Give an example please.
Is bowling part timers to speed up the over rate when you have India on the ropes so the skipper doesn’t get a one match suspension against New Zealand a risk?
Respected Journo
2 Jul 2009, 15:47
One straight off the top of my hat is when he declared in the 3rd test at SA. I can't remember what the final total SA had to chase, but it was a bold move considering what had happened in the first and two tests. Even bolder when you consider that SA then had a chance to win 3-0, which would have been humilating.
Secondly, and this one is harldy ever mentioned, when he chose to bat first at Joburg earlier this year. A young batting opener, inexperienced batting line-up and he chose to bat first on a lively wicket against a good bowling lineup. Is that not a risk?
Move on from the over-rate situation, it really bores me, Hussey bowled his part-timers and went for a grand total of 3 runs or something like that.
What about his persistence to bowl Krezja in India as well?
These are all risks, some of them came off, others didn't.
The Ponting bashing has gone to silly levels, it really becomes quite sad.
PalaceGun
2 Jul 2009, 16:00
One straight off the top of my hat is when he declared in the 3rd test at SA. I can't remember what the final total SA had to chase, but it was a bold move considering what had happened in the first and two tests. Even bolder when you consider that SA then had a chance to win 3-0, which would have been humilating.
Dead rubber who cares, series lost through grasping defeat from the jaws of victory in the first two tests.
Secondly, and this one is harldy ever mentioned, when he chose to bat first at Joburg earlier this year. A young batting opener, inexperienced batting line-up and he chose to bat first on a lively wicket against a good bowling lineup. Is that not a risk?.
Win toss bat first, standard 99% of the time.
Move on from the over-rate situation, it really bores me, Hussey bowled his part-timers and went for a grand total of 3 runs or something like that.
Wow, completely missing the point here, how many wickets did Hussey get? We had our feet on their throats ready to close out the Indian's innings and you are backing this move up with economy rates...
Interesting how a decision which cost a test match bores you....
What about his persistence to bowl Krezja in India as well?
Went for over 200 in quick time, hardly a great move there...
There are better options for the Australian captaincy, let Dick concentrate on his batting. He's averaing below 40 in his last 20 innings. Not good enough from a number three batsman with a mid-50 batting average.
Nankervis brothers
3 Jul 2009, 01:22
I'm no big fan of Ponting's, but i have even less interest in the opinions of a Scrubber like Jeff Thompson. Sure, Ponting "inherited" a brilliant squad, but he does have the best win-loss ratio in Tests for any long term Australian captain and the recent SA tour win was "worthy". Thompson comes over as a right buffon in the article in question. SOUR AS **** as well! Unless, of course, he meant the whole thing as a monumental troll.
Ill Chicken
3 Jul 2009, 01:51
I thought Ponting was great in 2004, especially in Sri Lanka, his use of Lehmann as a bowled in the series was a revelation, Lehmann took a fair slice of wickets from memory. No McGrath either.
He got six wickets in a dead rubber, the third and final test of the series. Nice to see him employing those tactics when the series is already over, full credit though, tough gig to get any wickets considering Warne took almost 30 wicket of the 60 available.
Should probably read all posts aka PalaceGun is right on.
Respected Journo
3 Jul 2009, 02:17
I don't want to get into a tit for tat argument, but I think most Ponting deserves a bit of credit. I remember Lehmann breaking crucial stands in Sri Lanka, and we won coming from behind in all 3 test matchs.
Now either the captain gets credit for the win, and he gets critisicm for a loss.
You can't have it where a win is due to Warne and McGrath and a loss is because of Ponting?
There has to be a fair line.
As I have said previously, we'll see how much we miss Ponting when he retires with both bat and in terms of leadership, especially off-field.
The problem is people are so used to winning in Australia that a loss is cause for Ponting to be burned at the steak. I'd like to see how Chappell would go with spuds in his team like Krezja, Hauritz or McGain.
Ill Chicken
3 Jul 2009, 02:55
You can't claim he is a great captain because he throws Lehmann the ball in a dead rubber on fifth day with Sri Lanka needing 370 to win. I don't think he is bad captain but he is not great, he is/was our only option so Thomson has got it wrong there and honestly doesn't add anything constructive to it. If Katich was five years younger, I would rate him as the successor or replacement over Clarke.
Ponting's on field demeanour is appalling, if something goes against him, he can't sit there a bite it, chew his gum or just give a rye grin, he flaps his arms about, altercates with the umpires, makes it known to everyone that he is unhappy with whatever justed happened.
courtjester
3 Jul 2009, 09:59
The problem is people are so used to winning in Australia that a loss is cause for Ponting to be burned at the steak. I'd like to see how Chappell would go with spuds in his team like Krezja, Hauritz or McGain.
I prefer mine medium rare! ;)
There are a few guys who played in the 70s that seem to enjoy shit-canning modern day players and/or cricket at any opportunity they get. I find it irritating. Like white noise. It's a shame, because it wrecks their legacy as players.
Ponting is probably the first Australian captain to come under scrutiny (for his captaincy) in 15-20 years. Border was not criticized heavily because everyone knew how crap we were in the 80s and he did the hard job of picking up the pieces. He did it by his own sheer will to stop Australia being crap. Taylor captained as Australia were transitioning between a good team and a great one. Waugh captained when Warne and McGrath (and Gillespie, MacGill, Kaspa, Hayden, Langer, Martyn, M.Waugh, Ponting and Gilchrist) were in their prime. You can't criticize a guy as captain if he never loses a test!
The thing is, captaining test cricket would be easy when you have McGrath, Warne and Gillespie regularly bowling teams out for under 200, then you have Hayden, Langer, Ponting Gilly etc coming in and scoring between 4-5 runs per over easily. Piece of piss really. I could do it.
It gets harder for Ponting now. He has young bowlers, and a much less experienced batting line-up. I agree with some of what Ill Chicken says. He needs to stop the pouting, nail chewing and turf kicking with these younger players. When things are going crap, he needs to show real leadership. That's my only criticism of him as a captain. When he was in India bowling the part-timers, if they'd taken a few wickets (as they sometimes do) we'd all have said he was a frickin' genius!
On a side note, it'd be interesting if Warne had been made captain when Ponting was. I wonder if he'd still be playing?
Belnakor
3 Jul 2009, 12:31
Noone gives Punter any credit for Johnson's development. I remember Ponting getting absolutely canned for giving Johnson long spells a couple of years back against Pakistan, why was he getting 30 overs etc, he is being overbowled, throwing pies. Punter stuck with him and now look at the dividends. Lets not forget things like Ponting insisting Symonds was in the squad for the 2003 WC etc etc.
Steve Waugh had the easiest job in World Cricket during the hayday of Warne, Mcgrath and Gilly. That team was nigh on unbeatable and when it did rarely get into trouble Waugh rarely had the answers, not to mention his appalling dead rubber record.
Everyone talks about picking the best bowlers etc, and it looks like we're going to play 4 quicks this test coming up. I can't wait until people critize Ponting again when we fall behind the overrate and we have to bowl part timers.
Ill Chicken
3 Jul 2009, 12:40
Johnson has never played against Pakistan in test cricket.
Johnson has never played against Pakistan in test cricket.
ODI's...
Ill Chicken
3 Jul 2009, 18:35
Haha, no wait, that one iT20, the only game he has played against Pakistan for Australia and bowled four overs, 1 for 28. Apologies to all involved.
Incase anybody is wondering, I am not Jeff Thomson.
Now either the captain gets credit for the win, and he gets critisicm for a loss.
You can't have it where a win is due to Warne and McGrath and a loss is because of Ponting?
There has to be a fair line.
On BigFooty you can. :D
It has long been the general argument from the Ponting critics here - wins come because of the players in his team, losses come because of Ponting's captaincy.
On BigFooty you can. :D
It has long been the general argument from the Ponting critics here - wins come because of the players in his team, losses come because of Ponting's captaincy.
And countless times I've tried to explain the difference and Ponting fans don't listen.
Cousin Jed
3 Jul 2009, 19:55
Incase anybody is wondering, I am not Jeff Thomson.
I'm glad you clarified that.
Belnakor
3 Jul 2009, 20:10
Johnson has never played against Pakistan in test cricket.
ok india/sri lanka. Sub continent, close!
Paddy_Mac
4 Jul 2009, 12:13
Thommo you are a fool.You have a dig at Ponting then say we will win the Ashes.
That's the point. We might be winning but that's because we have some really good players. I think Thommo's point is we could be better with a better captain.
Respected Journo
4 Jul 2009, 19:02
Then if you believe that, nominate an alternative captain and we'll examine and critique the credentials of the person at hand.
That's what annoys me about a lot of these articles.
People get stuck into the selectors for picking Hauritz, but they don't offer an alternative. Like all good whingers, these people never offer any solutions.
PalaceGun
4 Jul 2009, 23:47
People get stuck into the selectors for picking Hauritz, but they don't offer an alternative. Like all good whingers, these people never offer any solutions.
A. N. Other will do.
Cousin Jed
5 Jul 2009, 19:54
Might need to edit Ian Chappell in there too..
http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/current/story/412833.html
PalaceGun
5 Jul 2009, 21:15
Might need to edit Ian Chappell in there too..
http://www.cricinfo.com/engvaus2009/content/current/story/412833.html
Not much wrong there. He's right about the blunder of not bringing enough batsmen.
I don't agree that England have the better attack.
You shouldn't win Test matches against decent cricket teams relying on part-time spinners.
The good bit about this is England aren't a decent cricket team.
Respected Journo
5 Jul 2009, 22:27
The thing about that Ian Chappell article is that he doesn't nominate an alternative specialist spinner. Everyone knows we don't have much in the way of specialist spin options, we just can't go to the supermarket and purchase a spinner. No where has he said who the spinner should be?
I remember him being interviewed on ABC radio a few months ago and he said Australia was favourites, now his saying England are favourites but with a little get out clause stating that his prediction is dependent on the fitness of Flintoff. Well thats a pretty big get out clause. Almost like a Gunnar Longshanks quote that. Have a bit each way but always leave yourself a get out clause.
What about the "if your looking for clues to who might win, I always look at the bowling attack". Too think that this guy gets paid for this.
What else are you going too look at? The horoscopes in the paper?
Personally I think Australia will win through reverse swing, England have been weaned on some ordinary attacks lately, i don't the batsmen in that side can deal with a moving ball.
PalaceGun
5 Jul 2009, 22:46
The thing about that Ian Chappell article is that he doesn't nominate an alternative specialist spinner. Everyone knows we don't have much in the way of specialist spin options, we just can't go to the supermarket and purchase a spinner. No where has he said who the spinner should be?
He actually never says don't play Hauritz. He says don't rely on part-timers. Although going by Hauritz's latest and past results he looks the part of a part timer. :D
Chappell says he prefers 3 fast bowlers and a slow blower.