Heads up fanatics

[Colin D'Cops]

The loss we suffered at the hands of Collingwood tonight was rather disappointing, but really this should remind us where exactly we are placed in the competition. We have beaten Carlton twice, last years premiers Hawthorn and Collingwood on ANZAC Day who are shaping up for a spot in the top four. They're great wins, and should not be forgotten. The run & confidence shown in those matches were superb. That's what we're capable of, we can definitely build on that and bring consistency into our game in the not to distant future.

Guys like Ryder, Dempsey, Lovett, Winderlich & Pears have all improved a fair bit from last season. Ryder has rucked alone for a long period of time and has happened to win an ANZAC Day medal in the process. Dempsey has been smooth and full of run off the HBF, and with a little more experience; confidence will come. Lovett does all the things we're used to, but has delivered on a much more consistant basis this year. Winderlich has that speed & skill combination, and has shown that off this year when given the chance. Pears looks right at home in the backline, and has a cool head on his shoulders. Experience and some added bulk should turn him into a very important player for the Dons.

Skipworth, Hocking & Lovett-Murray in particular have pretty much stayed on the same level. All reasonably good players, but I get the feeling they're all a little off the pace and are primarily solid depth players. If we're wanting to win a flag in the near future, those types of guys mentioned above should not be in the side.

Collingwood tonight were great as they pressured us with each disposal we made, plus worked hard as a team and was prepared to gut run at every opportunity. They weren't content with one or two good efforts, they were prepared to slug it out and make us earn our stripes. We at times did the same, but with less experience and smaller bodies generally; we were always going to struggle in the clearances department and in the centre in general. Watson & McVeigh were big outs, but if we want to be a premiership threat in the near future we should be able to fill those gaps. With Hille & Laycock out who are our primary ruck duo, it has no doubt been tough for Ryder & Hooker but they're gaining good experience and have taken their responsibilities onboard.

The big question is captaincy for next year. Lloyd is a solid leader and has the runs on the board, BUT I think it's time he stands down and gives a younger player the responsibility. He has had an absolutely fantastic career, and has achieved alot; but I think now it's time to get that monkey off his back and go out and enjoy his last season or two. He looks rather nervous and under pressure when going for goal, and it has showed recently as his kicking style has changed marginally and now stabs more often than not. With less pressure, he'd no doubt slot most / if not every one of them. Watson & Hille I feel are great captaincy candidates, and should be looked at very carefully for the position when it becomes up for grabs.

Collingwood played some great footy tonight, but realistically they have got NO chance of winning the flag this season. Geelong & the Saints are so far ahead of the rest it isn't funny. Collingwood aren't quite ready to put in top quality footy for four quarters on a consistant basis. Travis Cloke was getting talked up all night, but he chokes under pressure and stabs at the ball more often than not. Fraser is a former number 1 draft pick, and still can't get himself to play good, consistant footy for a season. Geelong & the Saints would laugh at them, and would love the attention they are getting from Dermott Brereton & Eddie McPie. So this year is basically all over bar two teams, so now's the time we should definitely start experimenting with a few players and getting some game-time into those kids.

Things are looking up, and if you think the season's over; don't worry, it's over for 14 other clubs as well. We have beaten last year's premiers in Hawthorn, the top four pretenders in Carlton twice and we beat Collingwood on the big ANZAC stage. Watch the rest of the season with a positive view, and eventually in the near future the puzzle will come together. We have some mighty talent at the club, and real passion still heavily exists. Carn Dons!

[lamaros]

If Laycock and Gumby can get fit next year we'll go top 4 in 2010.

Tonight is just another lesson for a few blokes.

[Shane Hird]

The loss we suffered at the hands of Collingwood tonight was rather disappointing, but really this should remind us where exactly we are placed in the competition. We have beaten Carlton twice, last years premiers Hawthorn and Collingwood on ANZAC Day who are shaping up for a spot in the top four. They're great wins, and should not be forgotten. The run & confidence shown in those matches were superb. That's what we're capable of, we can definitely build on that and bring consistency into our game in the not to distant future.

Guys like Ryder, Dempsey, Lovett, Winderlich & Pears have all improved a fair bit from last season. Ryder has rucked alone for a long period of time and has happened to win an ANZAC Day medal in the process. Dempsey has been smooth and full of run off the HBF, and with a little more experience

Skipworth, Hocking & Lovett-Murray in particular have pretty much stayed on the same level. All reasonably good players, but I get the feeling they're all a little off the pace and are primarily solid depth players. If we're wanting to win a flag in the near future, those types of guys mentioned above should not be in the side.

With Hille & Laycock out who are our primary ruck duo, it has no doubt been tough for Ryder & Hooker but they're gaining good experience and have taken their responsibilities onboard. Carn Dons!



Bit harsh on Hocking I feel. Bit early to be writing him off and saying he will never be part of our future Premiership team...when ever that will be.

You sound like you have posted a tad to early while feeling down and out after a loss to the scumbags..but all is not lost.

As you said, we won't win a flag this year but you can bet they learn't a hell of a lot from that defeat.

I'm still confident we can win more games and reach the finals.

God I hate Collingwood...

[Colin D'Cops]

Bit harsh on Hocking I feel.

Have given him more than enough chances I feel. Had a ripper preseason I felt and looked really good out on the training track. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that intensity & effort has translated into match-day situations. With more experience though, he may well pick up the pace a tad; and hopefully he does.

You sound like you have posted a tad to early while feeling down and out after a loss to the scumbags..but all is not lost.

As I said, our future is bright but at the moment we aren't a premiership threat. Plain and simple, and straight to the point.

I'm still confident we can reach an Elim final..

Wishful thinking I reckon, just quietly. :p

[Shane Hird]

Have given him more than enough chances I feel. Had a ripper preseason I felt and looked really good out on the training track. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that intensity & effort has translated into match-day situations. With more experience though, he may well pick up the pace a tad;



That discription is Ricky Dyson at 50 games.



You can't wait that long for Hocking too?

[Colin D'Cops]

You can't wait that long for Hocking too?

I guess the difference between Dyson & Hocking at the moment is pace. That goes in Dyson's favour. Besides that, they both have a fair bit in common.

[King Of The Hille]

I guess the difference between Dyson & Hocking at the moment is pace. That goes in Dyson's favour. Besides that, they both have a fair bit in common.
hocking is considerably thicker than dyson and its fair to say puts his body on the line more often..if hocking was dysons pace i know who id rather

[bombers2011]

I agree, Hocking has improved alot this year. He actually slimmed down and gained a yard in speed I'd say. Someone was siting that pathetic Medhurst tackle on him where he just couldn't bring him down, used him like a set of Monkey Bars, that to me shows alot. NLM and Skipworth are definitely fringe players and not in our best team. I would be looking towards this in 2010:

B: Slattery Hurley Fletcher
HB: Dempsey Pears Myers
C: Lovett Prismall Winderlich
HF: Stanton Gumbleton Reimers
F: Davey Lloyd Monfries
Foll: Hille Watson McVeigh

I/C: Ryder Welsh McPhee Lucas
Emg: Lonergan Hocking Neagle

Close - Zaharakis, Houli, Hooker, Jetta, Dyson


DEPTH IS A BLESSING!

[zaharakamania]

B: Slattery Hurley Fletcher
HB: Dempsey Pears Myers
C: Lovett Prismall Winderlich
HF: Stanton Gumbleton Reimers
F: Davey Lloyd Monfries
Foll: Hille Watson McVeigh

I/C: Ryder Welsh McPhee Lucas
Emg: Lonergan Hocking Neagle

Close - Zaharakis, Houli, Hooker, Jetta, Dyson


i could live with that:D hope we get to see that side run out on the park sooner rather than later

[ant555]

Have given him more than enough chances I feel. Had a ripper preseason I felt and looked really good out on the training track. Unfortunately, it doesn't seem that intensity & effort has translated into match-day situations. With more experience though, he may well pick up the pace a tad; and hopefully he does.



I know that Hocking is not a star and will always be your 5th or 6th mid/ depth player but to say he has not come on much this year and has had a lot of chances is bloody harsh. He is 21 and played 17 games.
On top of that he has had jobs on the oppositions better players most weeks.
As someone has already said Dyson got 50 odd games to gain experience.

To say his intensity and effort at training has not translated onto match day is absolute crap. He is one of the few players in the side that coninually blocks or attempst to find an opponent when the footy is going the other way.

If we are having a shot at players then why not Monfries who most weeks offers up dumb footy and continually puts his team mates under pressure despite him having played 85 games !!

Like i said he will only ever be the 5th or 6th mid but he gets a huge plus this year becasue he has improved a lot despite him having games where he has struggled in paches against very experienced and very good players.

For mine to fit in with your original theme we will never win a flag with Monfries,Nlm, McPhee and to a slightly lesser extend Stanton!

[Colin D'Cops]

I agree, Hocking has improved alot this year...

He has improved a fair bit I agree, but not enough to warrant a regular selection in a competitive team. He is very much like Slattery, except he has a bigger engine but doesn't quite make mature decisions more often than not and doesn't have that burst of pace that's required.

As some have said, he has worked pretty damn hard over the preseason and has improved; but still doesn't warrant regular selection in a competitive side until he improves a fair bit more in the areas I mentioned above. Hopefully he does, as it'll mean he'll be close to selection every week and that creates a much more competitive environment around the club.

[Colin D'Cops]

If we are having a shot at players then why not Monfries who most weeks offers up dumb footy and continually puts his team mates under pressure despite him having played 85 games !!

Don't worry Ant, I've had a good go at Monfries in previous threads.

But you know, and I know; he is more valuable to our team then Hocking, Lovett-Murray & Skipworth put together.

[ghostdog]

I agree, Hocking has improved alot this year. He actually slimmed down and gained a yard in speed I'd say. Someone was siting that pathetic Medhurst tackle on him where he just couldn't bring him down, used him like a set of Monkey Bars, that to me shows alot. NLM and Skipworth are definitely fringe players and not in our best team. I would be looking towards this in 2010:

B: Slattery Hurley Fletcher
HB: Dempsey Pears Myers
C: Lovett Prismall Winderlich
HF: Stanton Gumbleton Reimers
F: Davey Lloyd Monfries
Foll: Hille Watson McVeigh

I/C: Ryder Welsh McPhee Lucas
Emg: Lonergan Hocking Neagle

Close - Zaharakis, Houli, Hooker, Jetta, Dyson


DEPTH IS A BLESSING!

Reimers has some work to do before this change happens. Dyson's accuracy with the boot has been far better than Reimers this season, though I do recognise that Reimers hasn't been on the park much. Still, Dyson's form turn around has been awesome. Doesn't flinch at contested ball, doesn't panic anymore with disposal, accurate long and short kick and a quick runner. Reimers seems to be a bit of a loose cannon. At times I almost expect him to give away fifty metres. He isn't where Dyson is yet, but I have no doubt he will be.

[ghostdog]

I know that Hocking is not a star and will always be your 5th or 6th mid/ depth player but to say he has not come on much this year and has had a lot of chances is bloody harsh. He is 21 and played 17 games.
On top of that he has had jobs on the oppositions better players most weeks.
As someone has already said Dyson got 50 odd games to gain experience.

To say his intensity and effort at training has not translated onto match day is absolute crap. He is one of the few players in the side that coninually blocks or attempst to find an opponent when the footy is going the other way.



Hocking deserves regular selection ahead of Reimers atm.

[bombers2011]

Reimers seems to be a bit of a loose cannon.

Completely, but that is what is great about him. As you also said he hasn't been on the park. He had a shitty preseason and is only just starting to get a grip on it.
He will be a crucial player if we are up and about at finals time, a shoe in in our best team IMO.

[Kong]

I know that Hocking is not a star and will always be your 5th or 6th mid/ depth player but to say he has not come on much this year and has had a lot of chances is bloody harsh. He is 21 and played 17 games.
On top of that he has had jobs on the oppositions better players most weeks.I assumed he was over the age of eligibility for the Rising Star.
Considering that award mostly goes to people who rack up possessions, why on earth hasn't HH (or Hunter Hearst Helmsley, as I'm trying to push) earned a nomination?
He has had the following games:
v Port: 7 marks, 25 disposals, 4 tackles
v Freo: 7 marks, 21 disposals, 8 tackles, 1 goal
v Bris: 5 marks, 21 disposals, 3 tackles, 1 goal
v Haw: 2 marks, 18 disposals, 9 tackles, 1 goal
v St K: 5 marks, 27 disposals, 2 tackles
v Geel: 4 marks, 23 disposals, 4 tackles, 2 goals
v Carl: 3 marks, 20 disposals, 2 tackles.

They are his only his 'standout' games, too. He hasn't had below 14 disposals for the year.

Surely he's due?

[Ben the Gooner]

Perspective comes later in the week GS.

Right now, I'm pissed off that we threw away a game against Collingwood.

****ing Collingwood.

[Colin D'Cops]

Perspective comes later in the week GS.

Haha, I'm a little different because I went into the game not confident at all. So I was still disappointed, but not as much as people who expected a win if that makes sense. As soon as I left my seat 5mins before the siren, I was really pissed off. But as soon as I took a step out of the 'G', I thought it was appropriate to reflect.

[Ben the Gooner]

But the first quarter effort showed, regardless of how confident you were, that we should have won.

We should have been 4-5 goals up, make no mistakes about it.

[Colin D'Cops]

We should have been 4-5 goals up, make no mistakes about it.

I agree, but Collingwood were always going to come back regardless I felt.

[ghostdog]

But the first quarter effort showed, regardless of how confident you were, that we should have won.

We should have been 4-5 goals up, make no mistakes about it.

...that we could have. Momentum is an awesome psychological influence.

[stay true]

But the first quarter effort showed, regardless of how confident you were, that we should have won.

We should have been 4-5 goals up, make no mistakes about it.
****in ay! And to conceed the two goals like we did, free players in the goal square, it really hurts. It really set the tone of the match, we continued to scrap hard for opportunities only to waste them and once they got possession of the ball it was basically a couple of kicks up the ground and a goal.

It's funny that my magpie mates still can't conceed that we dominated the first 10-15 minutes of the game simply because we only won the first quarter by 3 points.

The positive was that we didn't give up and kept on trying but we just couldn't get it right on the night.

Gotta bounce back strongly against the Swans with Macca and hopefully Watson back in aswell!

PS: LLOYDY ACTUALLY KICKED A BANANA GOAL FROM THE BOUNDRY =D

[ant555]

Don't worry Ant, I've had a good go at Monfries in previous threads.

But you know, and I know; he is more valuable to our team then Hocking, Lovett-Murray & Skipworth put together.

I dont agree at all. In fact i will say that Skippy or Hocking can play the same role as Monfries. Skipworth used to play small forward for the Crows.
Gus is a major disapointment to me. First round pick with 80 plus games experience and he only seems to fire in games that lack any real pressure.

His decision making is bloody terrible most weeks. How amny times can he handball to players under pressure or kick to Lloyd when he has 2 or 3 opponents.
Sure he looks good when he can play lead up and kick a few goals but he fell away with a whimper again in a high pressure game.

You can make excuses for guys who have played 30 games or less when they do it but i expect my 80 game players to be offering some consistant footy for 18 or so games a year and not 6 or 7.

It is the consistant poor performances by the players in 60 to 120 game bracket in pressure games that hurts us the most.

As far as Hocking goes he certainly is not in the most gifted player group but if you take the time to watch him on the field he is one of the few players offering on field leadership and perfroming the Non Possession time stuff that will win you finals.
Until we find players with better ability to do the one percenters Hocking deserves his spot in the side.
At the moment we have a number of down hill skiers.

[ant555]

I assumed he was over the age of eligibility for the Rising Star.
Considering that award mostly goes to people who rack up possessions, why on earth hasn't HH (or Hunter Hearst Helmsley, as I'm trying to push) earned a nomination?
He has had the following games:
v Port: 7 marks, 25 disposals, 4 tackles
v Freo: 7 marks, 21 disposals, 8 tackles, 1 goal
v Bris: 5 marks, 21 disposals, 3 tackles, 1 goal
v Haw: 2 marks, 18 disposals, 9 tackles, 1 goal
v St K: 5 marks, 27 disposals, 2 tackles
v Geel: 4 marks, 23 disposals, 4 tackles, 2 goals
v Carl: 3 marks, 20 disposals, 2 tackles.

They are his only his 'standout' games, too. He hasn't had below 14 disposals for the year.

Surely he's due?

He turned 21 on the 27th of Dec so i think he just misses out.

[GoldenboyHird_5]

So much for you always attacking kelvin about looking at where draftees were taken??

You've always said that players should never be looked at where they were taken, rather how they are playing. You're obviously taking Monfries' performance with the fact that he was a first round draft pick.

In 2 years, are you going to turn on Myers for being a first round pick?

[ant555]

So much for you always attacking kelvin about looking at where draftees were taken??

You've always said that players should never be looked at where they were taken, rather how they are playing. You're obviously taking Monfries' performance with the fact that he was a first round draft pick.

In 2 years, are you going to turn on Myers for being a first round pick?

Sorry it should not have sounded like that. My real beef is he has played 86 games and he can not string togehter many consistant games.
You are right the fact that he was first round is irrelevant.

I should have said he was drafted as a gun mid and now 80 games later we don't really know if he will be a consistant small forward.

In 2 years time if i question Myers it will be based on performance and not where he was taken.

I do take offence at people saying i am turning on players. I am not turning on anyone. I will not appologise for not having the Essendon blinkers on but i am the first to say i am happy if a judgment on an Essendon player is wrong.
Giving constructed critisism on players performances is hardly truning on them.

[GoldenboyHird_5]

No, I agree with what you're saying. I just thought you might have been straying off your principles.

What did you think of the game last night? Finals or not?

[ant555]

No, I agree with what you're saying. I just thought you might have been straying off your principles.

What did you think of the game last night? Finals or not?

Still in the mix for finals but last night showed how it can come apart on the field and in the coaches box in a pressure game.

Our bottom end does not have enough experience and a lot of our mid range does not perfrom consistantly so you end up being a 6th to 12th placed side rather than a genuine 3rd to 6th side.

I think we are miles way from being a top 4 side but it is within our reach to be in the 5th to 8th spot over the next few years provided the young players continue to keep taking the next step.

[Colin D'Cops]

I dont agree at all. In fact i will say that Skippy or Hocking can play the same role as Monfries. Skipworth used to play small forward for the Crows..

Skippy can play the same role, but Angus is quicker which says a fair bit I think as Angus isn't lightning fast. Skipworth was a clever forward for Crows, no doubt; but what's done is done, lets mark them now. Hocking I won't say anymore; not sure what you see in him but I don't think he's creative enough to play that role. Say no more.

Angus has been a little disappointing, as he hasn't turned into that midfielder we all hoped he could become. But realistically, with our midfield group now we wouldn't be able to fit him in much anyway.

[bombers_4_ever]

I'm really looking fwd to next year. If we don't make the top 4 in 2010 it'll be a wasted year. With the list we have we should be playing finals from 2010-2015.

[ant555]

Skippy can play the same role, but Angus is quicker which says a fair bit I think as Angus isn't lightning fast. Skipworth was a clever forward for Crows, no doubt; but what's done is done, lets mark them now. Hocking I won't say anymore; not sure what you see in him but I don't think he's creative enough to play that role. Say no more.

Angus has been a little disappointing, as he hasn't turned into that midfielder we all hoped he could become. But realistically, with our midfield group now we wouldn't be able to fit him in much anyway.

Line them up during the pre season sprints and Skippy was beating Angus.
Gus is not all that quick, part of the reason why he can not break into the midfield.
And before anyone jumps up and down and points out others are not quick but in the midfield i said part of the reason. Combined with a lack of endurance and poor decision making being average pace does cost you.

[ghostdog]

I'm really looking fwd to next year. If we don't make the top 4 in 2010 it'll be a wasted year. With the list we have we should be playing finals from 2010-2015.

With our aging forwards that's an unrealistic expectation.

[The Donners]

The loss we suffered at the hands of Collingwood tonight was rather disappointing, but really this should remind us where exactly we are placed in the competition.

Great post GS. I left the above extract to emphasise the fact that Friday night's loss was in fact a good loss. It's a cliche but we'll take more out of that game from the loss than we would've with a win (though obviously the 4 points is always nicer! :D).

Collingwood are a well drilled unit with a heap of determination. Outside of the top 2 teams in the competition, I would say they are my only smoky for the premiership. One must not forget we dominated the first quarter against Collingwood without Hille, McVeigh and Watson. Taking nothing away from Collingwood's victory, we still have more room for improvement than they do! ;)

[Knight Ryders]

I love Hocking's in and under work and admire just how strong he is through the hips. I think he will become an important part of our side in the future as a clearance player, much like Sewell at the Hawks.

I see in some future teams that people have Myers at half back, but I'm not sure he has shown the natural composure to be a backline player. Sounds to me, without actually seeing a VFL match, that his spot is on-ball where potentially (this is the critical word), he could be a beast of player around the stoppages with his physicality and his booming left foot kick.

After actually having time to think about the match on Friday night, I do actually think that Collingwood can match the top 3 teams come finals time. They play to their game plan, their game plan has been proven in finals, their elite players are as good as any, their backline is very solid and their bottom 6 players are getting better. It's all about intensity for the Pies.

[Colin D'Cops]

Gus is not all that quick...

Don't need to go telling me that mate. That's why I said earlier, he isn't lightning fast but is probably just above average still. That is partly the reason why indeed he hasn't turned into that full-time midfielder we have wanted, because his skills & courage attributes aren't bad at all.

[ant555]

Don't need to go telling me that mate. That's why I said earlier, he isn't lightning fast but is probably just above average still. That is partly the reason why indeed he hasn't turned into that full-time midfielder we have wanted, because his skills & courage attributes aren't bad at all.

I was saying it in referance to the fact you said he was quicker than Skippy. That is actually not the case . :)

[Colin D'Cops]

I was saying it in referance to the fact you said he was quicker than Skippy. That is actually not the case . :)

Possibly in the preseason and a few training sessions Skippy would beat Angus in a few sprints. Out on the ground though, under pressure; it isn't overly visible and would think Gus would have his measure but only slightly.

[daffo]

I don't think Hockings position in the side should be questioned. He has performed well and plays a team game. He is still ahead of Skipworth, Dyson and Reimers in the midfield group (I know Reimers doesn't play much through the middle but I believe that is more to do with his fitness atm)
With Hille in the side I believe we would of been a top six side this year and Hocking has held his spot, so I have no issue with him.

[ghostdog]

I don't think Hockings position in the side should be questioned. He has performed well and plays a team game. He is still ahead of Skipworth, Dyson and Reimers in the midfield group (I know Reimers doesn't play much through the middle but I believe that is more to do with his fitness atm)
With Hille in the side I believe we would of been a top six side this year and Hocking has held his spot, so I have no issue with him.

Agreed. Hocking's good form and tough approach has been consistent all year. :thumbsu: